Faith with Quilen Blackwell | A Bit of Optimism - a podcast with Simon Sinek: Episode 26

Now and then, I get to meet someone who absolutely inspires me. Keelan Blackwell is that person. He grew up in an affluent neighborhood in Wisconsin, set on the path to go to college and get a good career. But he decided to leave it all to follow his own path. One driven by faith and conviction, one driven by a desire to serve. His story is filled with ups and downs, trials and tribulations. He ended up homeless at one point, but always driven by this faith, he never gave up. His story is absolutely inspiring. He turned his life around and became a social entrepreneur. Now giving back to the very community that helped lift him up. His story and he are absolutely magical. This is a bit of optimism.

Keelan, so good to see you. Thanks for joining me. The reason I wanted to talk to you is I'm kind of in awe of some of the life decisions you've made. To be honest, you made decisions to give back to your community, to live a life of service, which I admire and love. But you have done so with this intense conviction to go and live in the world that you work in, which is not the world that you grew up in.

That's correct. Yep.

Just give me a little bit of background about how you grew up, where you grew up, and how and why you find yourself where you are today.

Yeah. So I grew up in Madison, Wisconsin. I'm a proud Wisconsin badger. You know, my parents had, like, both really good jobs. You know, I grew up upper middle class. I didn't want for anything. I had a very, very good childhood. Yeah. Where I am now, I'm in Inglewood on the south side of Chicago. So it's like, really the antithesis of what my experience was growing up, you know, but, like, while I was a child, my dad, he was the first one to really instill in me this idea of community service, you know, because I was getting a little too big for my britches as a kid. You know how it is when you're in that preteen teenager phase? You feel like you can challenge your parents. And, you know, particularly my dad, I just started, you know, telling him, hey, you know, like, I'm some hot stuff, so I don't need you. You know, I felt like I was grown before I was grown, and he felt like he needs to knock me down a few pegs. And he was like, you know what, Keelan? I think it's time for you to understand that the world's bigger than just you. So what he did is he actually had me volunteer at a community center where there had a lot of refugees from Southeast Asia. So, like, at that time, you know, there's like, a lot of refugees from the Vietnam War. This is like, you know, late 90s, early 2000s, you know, just like me in middle school. Through that experience, you know, I really began to see that, oh, not everyone has what I have because I just sort of had this assumption as a kid, like most people do, that, oh, everyone must be going through what I'm going through. So I would say, like, that was like, the first, first maybe inflection point in my life where I began to realize that I had a pretty privileged upbringing. And then from there, I just sort of got hooked. So, you know, at first my dad intended it to be more of a punishment, but then, like, the following summer, I voluntarily said, hey, you know what? Actually, I want to go back there. You know, because I was like, I had so many good experiences. I'm, like, working with these families. I'm hearing their stories, and it just really, like, convicted my heart. Oh, there's more to this world than just being this young hotshot. So, yeah, that's pretty much, like, I would say, like, the impetus of what got me on this road. And then, you know, from there, it's just been pretty much me following my faith. I think I told you before, like, I'm a Christian, so that just really just added coals to the fire, really. Just this conviction that I need to live my life in such a way where I need to give back to mankind into the world.

So let me take a step back for a second. Can you tell me one of the specific stories that you experienced with the families from Vietnam that you were working with when you were in middle school that really set you on this course?

Yeah, I'm 100% transparent. Okay. So hopefully it's the no judgment zone.

No judgment zone.

So, you know, like, as a kid, I would say I was, like, racist against, like, you know, immigrants and Asians in particular, because, you know, like, Madison at that time was mostly white. You know, my idea of, like, Americans and culture was more this black white dynamic. So, you know, when you start having, like, this influx of, you know, Southeast Asians, you know, I didn't really, you know, I don't know their language, their customs. You know, I feel like their knee jerk reactions. Fear. Right. So one of the things I would do as a kid is, you know, like, there's, like, a hill that would, like, look down on where the, you know, the community center was, and me and my friends would, like, go up there. We'll Just, like, you know, toss rocks at, like, the people there. So, you know, when I was, like, volunteering, I began to get to know these people. And, you know, one of the kids basically talked about how, like, one of those rocks hit him. And, you know, you just say, like, hey, you know, my family moved here. They kind of went through the whole. Kind of explained to me this ordeal of how they had to escape out of Vietnam. It was like this really hellish experience. They didn't know where they're going to end up. It's not like they were looking to come to us. There was, like, a few different options. They didn't know what Wisconsin was. They didn't know what Madison was. I mean, they're just trying to, like, save their life. Right. And that just really touched me because I'm like, hey, here I am throwing rocks into basically assaulting these people who. I don't know. They're just human beings like me, you know, they're just looking for a better life. I would say, you know, made me feel bad is probably an understatement.

Yeah.

It's just a memory that I just don't forget. And it's something, you know, where I just, like, thank God that he's given me enough grace to kind of continue to live the life I have and really try to, like, do my best to, you know, really be understanding and seek compassion first. Right. Because you don't know how you're hurting people when you succumb to hate and. And prejudice and racism.

Yeah. And so you went back the following year.

Yep.

And was that experience more of the same, different? Because clearly you're on a path and there's a momentum here. So I'm interested in what happened the following year, but even how it affected you when you went back to school.

Yeah. It's like, the second year is interesting because it was more about building the relationships that got established that previous summer. So I felt like that second year we began to relate more on a peer basis. Cause that first year, I kind of went in, and then I kind of came in this idea of, like, okay, I'm here to help you. My dad's telling me to do this. You know, I didn't really look at it as like, this is something we're doing together. That second year, it became more of like, okay, we're doing this together. And I kind of began to look at it as, hey, these people have something to teach me. You know, so my posture was totally different, and I began to learn a lot about Hmong people. And Cambodians and Laotians. Interestingly enough, like, as I got into high school, I, you know, I became more accepted in that community. You know, I was like playing basketball with a lot of those guys. My first girlfriend was Hmong. So I really began to become very immersed in sort of that Southeast Asian community. The thing I think, like, really got me was just like the love they showed me knowing, you know, some of the acts that I did that I'm not proud of, but the fact that they're willing to forgive me for that and accept me for who I am and really take me in to this day. Like, I have close friends who are Cambodian and Hmong. So I just look at it like, man, these people really contributed to a part of my life, my personality. And it's all because I basically took that step outside my comfort zone. Right. I took that step outside my box.

Which is, I think going to be a theme, which is this idea of stepping outside your comfort zone. I still need to get you to where you are today.

Which is outside your comfort zone.

Yes, that's 100% true. No, I look back on my journey to where I am today. You know, it's like, it's like the little building blocks, right? It's like these little things that you didn't necessarily think would lead to somewhere, but like, it kind of just built up over time. It just built this momentum where eventually it leads me to where I am today.

So you grew up upper middle class, you had every opportunity afforded to you, and now you live in one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in one of the most dangerous cities in the country.

Right.

How does that happen?

I mean, a lot happened in between there. But I would say the biggest thing is I had to like, really get to a place in my life where I got over myself. Yeah. And it's this whole idea that, you know, we kind of like hold tightly onto the life that we think we should be living, but it's actually may not necessarily be the best path for us. So if you're willing to like, give that up, then you can basically find a superior life, right. In service and giving and that kind of thing. And I would say the rubber met the road in like 2011. You know, I just got out of the Peace Corps. I was like living with my parents, trying to get re acclimated to living in the United States again after I was like in Thailand for two years. And, you know, I just really kind of had a quarter life crisis, to be honest with you. And I was just thinking, like, hey, what am I gonna do with my life? Right? You know, I began to think, like, okay, moving forward, who should I really be trying to, like, help? And particularly black people. Right? Because up until this point, I've never really lived in a black community. You know, like, Madison's mostly a white community. Then I was in the Peace Corps. You know, I was in Thailand. Obviously, that's Asian. I went to University of Wisconsin, Madison, which is, like 90% white. So, you know, all this time, I really was disconnected from my own people. I'm, like, seeing and hearing about, you know, of course, like, you know, the hood and, you know, the plight of African Americans in this country. And I just really felt like, okay, you know, what I've been giving of myself to all these other people groups, but what about my own people? Right? And that's really when I began to make a conscious decision that from that day forward, I will be very intentional about reconnecting with my own roots.

Had you experienced racism yourself? Because you said you uncomfortably admit that you had racist sensibilities as a young kid. Had you experienced racism in these predominantly white neighborhoods, white universities, even going to Thailand?

Is that your question? Because. Yes.

I mean.

Go on.

Because there's an irony to it.

Right, Right. I mean. Yeah, so I have experienced my fair share of racism, particularly in school. And you're right. There is an irony to it that's not lost on me, which I think has softened my heart in a way. When I say softened my heart, I mean, like, this idea that racism doesn't define you from my perspective. Right. You know, I look at it as more of. I don't know if you want to say, a disease or whatever else you want to call it, but it's just something that someone can succumb to because of ignorance, because of maybe you're not happy with your lot in life. I mean, there's a million reasons why you could succumb to it. And it's not exclusive to just white people. Right. You know, like I said, I participate in myself. You know, it's very easy these days to, like, really have, like, a chip on your shoulder and focus on the ways you've been hurt. Right. Focus on the ways you've been slighted. But we never really think about the ways you slight other people, the ways we hurt other people. Right. You know, we always want grace, and we always want to pass on that. And I've been like, you know what? God's using me today. Despite the fact that I did some things in my life that I'M very ashamed of and I'm not proud of. So, you know, who am I to basically say, hey, because you're white and you did X, Y and Z to me, you know, I'm going to hold that against you forever, you know? You know, and I know that's not a very easy thing for a lot of people to hear, you know, but, like, that's, that's a strong conviction for me that, you know, like, we do need to live our lives in a way where we have grace and forgiveness and understand that, like, hey, you know what? Like, you don't know people's full story. Like, I guarantee you, before you got on this call with me, you know, you didn't know that I threw rocks at Asian kids. You know what I mean? Like, you never guessed that. And I could have totally got by with this interview without admitting that. Right? But it's just important to me for people to understand, like, hey, you know, I'm flawed just like anybody else, but, you know, there's a grace that God has for, you know, my life and other people so that you can still be used. Because I feel like there's a hope piece to it that gets lost when you begin to, like, really judge people for their worst moments.

What I find so interesting about your story is this recurring theme of narrative, you know, where we have a narrative of what our lives are supposed to be. I'm supposed to go to college. I'm supposed to get this kind of job. I'm supposed to live in this neighborhood. And you talked about letting go of that story and letting go of that narrative of what I quote unquote, should be doing, right, based on parental pressure, societal pressure, or made up pressure. And I think we've all had that. We've all.

Found ourselves on a path that we didn't want to be on, but this is the path I'm supposed to be on. And your ability to let go of that narrative, which opened a whole new set of opportunities and experiences for you. And this idea of narrative that somebody who did an act is, I'm going to judge their character based on the act that they performed rather than saying maybe they succumb to something, because again, there's a narrative, there's self loathing or displeasure with my lot in life, or maybe I learned the wrong lessons as a kid. Like, who knows? There's a long list that would cause someone to act in these, what we consider horrible ways, right? And the ability for you not only to let go of your own narrative that opened up A whole new path for you, a path of conviction rather than, you know, sort of predestiny, I guess, you know, predestined to live an unhappy life.

This idea that. And then also your ability to let. To recognize that you don't understand somebody else's narrative.

Right.

To be. To work. And it's not easy to be free of judgment. It's much easier to judge.

Yeah, I definitely think, like, that definitely created, like, a great crisis of identity. And, like, really, that crisis, I think, started in Thailand. This is my first time overseas. I've never been overseas. You know, no one, My family really has been overseas. And my whole context has been identifying as an African American within the United States. So when I went to Thailand, there's totally different. There's more about your nationality, right? So as an American, I'm like, top of the totem pole. This whole idea of, like, who am I? Right. You know, I got good grades in school, I went to college. I'm supposed to get a good job. I'm supposed to get married. You know, sort of predetermined narrative that, you know, really was foisted upon you. If you kind of stop and think about it, you don't really question it. So, like, that really kind of gave me a space when I was in Thailand to begin to think about, well, who am I? And why did I buy into this narrative? Is this really who I am? Is this something I really want to be? And that was a very, very difficult process because, you know, you really have to, like, break yourself down at that point in order for you to be able to build yourself up in a way where it's really scary. Because the thing about the, you know, the narrative you're talking about is, like, there's safety in it. Oh, I know who I'm supposed to be. I know the direction I'm supposed to go because everyone else is doing it. Right? It's a herd mentality thing. But when you basically decide to buck that trend, and now it's like, hey, I have to basically break down who I am inside to build myself up. We know, where am I going to live? What's my job going to look like? Right? So that was the most scary part. But I made a promise to myself that regardless of whatever path I made, I wasn't going to quit. Like, I'm going to see this through, come hell or high water. If I ended up homeless, I end up homeless. If I end up flying, I end up flying. But what was more important to me was being true to myself. And I think that more people, if they had that courage to really just face themselves and, and break themselves down and be honest about that, to build themselves up again, you know, we'll have a much more peaceful and prosperous world.

You're offering something that is damn near impossible to do. I mean, let's break this down. You're proposing to, instead of following the predetermined path of quote, unquote certainty, even if it leads to your unhappiness, to take a risk to get off that path, to follow your true joy, your true conviction, even if the outcome is homelessness.

Right? Yep.

Most people will say, I'm going to stay on this unhappy, unfulfilled path.

Right, right, right.

I'll take this certainty versus that risk.

Right.

So where did the courage come from? I mean, this is basically what you're talking about, is an entrepreneurial venture, but with your life.

Yes, that's exactly what happened, you know.

Because when, when somebody goes on an entrepreneurial venture, they could become a multimillionaire or they can end up bankrupt or something somewhere in between. And so you're taking an entrepreneurial risk, but with your life, which is even scarier than an entrepreneurial risk with your career.

Right. And you know, and in full, in full disclosure, I was homeless, I was hungry. I mean, I remember when I first came to Chicago, you know, I basically sold everything that I had. I moved here and was like, hey, look at this is my conviction. I feel like this is what God is asking me to do. And I had nothing. And when I say nothing, I mean literally nothing. Like, my first place, I just had a one month lease in this flooded basement because I only had a couple hundred dollars to my name. And then after that, I was basically just living on the generosity of other people. And that was both, like, humbling and scary. I was like, you know, God, why'd you bring me here to just a fail? And yeah, like, it was emotionally distraught because, like, all I knew was comfort. Right. So to basically, it's one thing to be poor and to go through that because circumstances like forced you to. It's another thing for you to voluntarily go through that. Right. And then stick with it. But once again, I made that commitment that I'm not going to quit. So even though the temptation to basically call my parents at that time and say, hey, I'm struggling, please bail me out, you know, because I had that, I had that get out of jail card that most people didn't have. Right. I could have easily at any moment go back to that Life. But I was like, you know what? I'm going to commit myself to this path. I mean, when I look back on it, I really just think I was curious. That's why I know, like, hey, if I stick this thing out, what's going to happen, right? And I remember, like, thinking to myself, okay, you know, like, in those moments, there are many moments I wanted to give up, trust me. But in those moments when I wanted to give up, I remember thinking to myself, okay, when I'm like, old and gray on my deathbed, am I going to look back on my life and have this massive regret that I gave up only a couple of years into a hardship and not really, you know, sort of seeing it through and seeing, hey, what would have happened if I stuck it out? And just that, you know, persistent thought in my head kept me going through those hard days.

You talked about living off the generosity of others. Can you tell me the name of someone who, without this person, you probably wouldn't have made it through. You probably would have quit.

So there's this person. Her name's Michelle, Michelle Munoz. Michelle was someone who I met at the church that I was going to here in Chicago. I didn't know her, like, total stranger, right? Like, they know me from Adam. But she saw that I was struggling. I mean, had clothes with holes in them, the whole nine yards. She, like, sort of struck up a conversation with me one day, trying to get to know me, kind of get on my situation. I'm feeling like I'm new to Chicago, that kind of deal. And when I told her that, like, hey, yeah, like, I only got a few more days in my place. And then after that, I got nowhere to go, she was like, well, hey, you know what? Let me call my sister, because I think she may have a room. Maybe you could crash there for a few weeks until you get yourself on your feet. And she did that like, you know, her sister Elena let me stay at her place for a few weeks, and that was a godsend because it did give me, like, a little stability in this chaotic situation. And then when I was able to upgrade to renting a room more than just on a month to month basis, I still was, like, having a hard time with food and clothes and that kind of deal. So Michelle, like, offered to, like, you know, buy me groceries. You know, she'd, like, take me to, like, different Puerto Rican restaurants. But she really was like one of those angels in those early days that kind of came out of nowhere. But she just had uncommon generosity. For whatever reason, I Mean, even to this day, I don't know what moved her to help me out, but, I mean, I'm definitely thankful for it.

I think this is so important, which is it's one thing to take the risk. What has to be stressed here is you didn't do this alone. Though you were lonely at times, you didn't do this alone. And your courage wasn't solely internal conviction, but rather the love of others and the uncommon generosity of others in some way shape or form fueled your conviction. Is that fair?

Yes. That's a very astute observation. Because the thing is, when you have people who show that kind of generosity to you, it's very important. Right. I literally just got done crying to God and crying in my bed. You know, here I am, I meet Michelle a day or two after that. It was just enough of a spark to keep me going, to make me feel like I didn't make the wrong decision, to make me feel like, hey, you know what? Like, I can live the fight another day. And frankly, like, what you're saying, like, I'm not in this by myself, that there's other people who are looking at my struggles, who see me and who are willing to help, and like, yeah, this definitely, at least, you know, my life is definitely not a solo sport. You know what I mean? There's been many Michelles along the way. I mean, she just stands out because she kind of came at a time that was very critical to me in the early days. Because when you start out, it's always the most hardest. Right.

I want to underscore what you just said. You said something very profound, which is life is not a solo sport.

Yes.

Which is, I think, an incredibly profound thing because we all think of ourselves as individuals trying to make it in life or make a life for ourselves. But the reality is, it's not a solo sport. It's my life. Your life, our lives as individuals, is actually a team sport, Right?

Yes, exactly. And you know, the thing about that is you never know who's on your team and you never know.

Right.

Like, I didn't know Michelle was on my team. And then there were people who I thought were on my team who weren't on my team.

So. Yeah. And that's where, like, it's just been, like, really cool. We kind of talk about this idea of humanity and people supporting you, and then, of course, want to pay it forward, you know, like, that's what really helps me to continue to live the life that I'm living. Because I remember those strangers who helped me along the way. So. So I'm like, who am I not to help a stranger because they help me out.

I think you may have offered the best definition of faith I've ever heard.

Which is that you're on a team and you don't know who's on your team. And we talk about certainty. We think that the people who we can rely on will be there for us, but we don't really know until it's tested. We create this narrative. It's the exact same thought process that is, this is the life I have to live. It's this choice, choice of certainty, even though it's really uncertain. That's the irony. What you traded as one kind of uncertainty for another kind of uncertainty. They're both exactly the same, except one has a narrative which is a fiction, and the other one was literally an unknown.

Yes.

So you traded a fiction for an unknown, that the life you chose is actually the same. And Faith is accepting that I am on a team and I don't know who my teammates are and the faith that the team will be there to support me, even though I don't know who they are when they're going to show up, which is kind of amazing.

I'm going to steal that, even though I said it, but, you know, now that you've kind of packaged it.

That'S totally not what I was thinking.

But you're the same. And Faith is accepting that I am on a team and I don't know who my teammates are. And the faith that the team will be there to support me, even though I don't know who they are when they're going to show up, which is kind of amazing.

I'm gonna steal that, even though I said it, but, you know, now that you've kind of packaged it.

That'S totally not what I was thinking. But you're 100% correct on that. Yes. Like, faith is literally being on team but not knowing who's on your team. That's 100% true.

Yeah. So I have to ask. There's all this buildup. How did you get to do what you're doing now? You now grow flowers in the inner city.

Yes.

No one expected to hear that.

Yes. I am the flower man. That is 100% true.

So get to how you got to what you're doing now.

I'm having a lot of fun. I like talking to you, Simon.

The feeling's mutual, Caelan.

But yeah. So once I really started to get established here and really get comfortable with sort of the Unknown. And I like the way you sort of couch that. That, yes, I basically trade in a perceived fictional certainty for this unknown. And once I got more comfortable with that, then I began to realize, oh, there's a lot of power with this. Right? Like, it started to feel like the game, like, who's gonna come out the woodwork? That's gonna open up some door? Who's gonna help me out?

Well, you have more freedom, right? Because you don't actually have to force your life to obey the fiction, to obey the preconceived path. Everybody has the same freedom. But you actually created a mechanism that allowed you to take a step off the fiction and actually appreciate all the opportunities and relationships and generosities that actually were in front of you, ironically, that are actually in front of everyone.

And that's true. You know, and the thing is, like, what I'm doing, anybody can do. It's literally just, like, the way you perceive your life. And that's where the power really came from, is I felt liberated. Like, for the first time in my life, I'm like, oh, I'm free. I mean, you look on the surface, and I didn't look free because, you know, I look broke. And I was broke. But mentally and psychologically and emotionally, spiritually, I felt like there was nothing that hindered me. So then when that happens, taking risk becomes a lot easier, right? So when you talk about how you go from, you know, sort of being this, like, you know, bummy guy just kind of barely making it to all of a sudden having this prosperous flower business is essentially because my mindset changed that, hey, I'm just gonna continue to explore. I'm gonna continue to get more. So when you talk about how you go from, you know, sort of being this, like, you know, bummy guy just kind of barely making it to all of a sudden having this prosperous flower business, it's essentially because my mindset changed that. Hey, I'm just gonna continue to explore. I'm gonna continue to get more curious. And then one day, I find myself starting Eco House. This is like, 2014, because I find myself, like, tutoring here at a school in Inglewood, here on the south side. I get more connected with people in the community. And one of the things that people are saying as I'm getting to know them is, hey, you know what, Keelan? If you really want to help jobs, you know, and not just like, any kind of jobs, but jobs that are here, here in our community or curious. And then one day I find myself starting Eco House that are accessible.

I think that's a thing that a lot of people don't recognize, which is poor people don't need money, Poor people need jobs.

Yes. I think a lot of people underestimate that. Jobs is more about just making a check. Right. Like there's a dignity to creating something that adds value to other people. Yeah. Like people want to give, you know what I mean? And if you work your job and you work it well, like you're giving, you're enhancing, you know, your communities.

So what is ecohaus?

So ecohaus is an organization that has a mission of using sustainability to alleviate interstate poverty. And we do that by taking over vacant lots of and converting them into These off grid, 100% sustainable flower farms that create jobs for at risk young people. So we work with like a lot of gang bangers, a lot of kids who are coming out the system, a lot of kids who basically are living on the margins or in extreme poverty, you know, but the whole idea is to essentially induce bottom up economic growth in the hood, you know, so instead of taking these kids and you know, sort of training them to be, I don't know, say computer programmers and trying to export them to work in the west loop or downtown. The whole idea is to really try to build industry at home Right. In the cultural context that these kids are growing up in. And that really just plays into this idea, affirming the dignity of not just the kids, we hire, the kids who come to our program, but also the community. Right. Because you know, our farms are very visible. They're residential neighborhoods. You know, for those of you who aren't familiar with Chicago, Chicago has tens of thousands of vacant lots. Most of them are concentrated in black communities on the south and west sides of the city. So, you know, it's uncommon for you to be driving on a residential block and there's like, you know, six, seven vacant lots on that block with like a few abandoned buildings. Right. And you know, no one really wants to live like that. So we come in and we take over like these vacant lots, like and you know, there's these beautiful flowers in the summer. It just helps bring like a sense of community pride and beauty back to the community.

And then you sell the flowers to whoever wants them.

Yeah. So we're a social enterprise. Yeah. So our model is basically we grow our own flowers and then, you know, we have our own in house flower shop called Southside Blooms. And then we sell our flowers direct to consumer through our website. Delivery anywhere in the Chicagoland area.

It's fantastic. And so the kids who go through your program, now I understand when you talk about Eco House, it's a double entendre. It's not the eco of the being ecological and self sustaining and off the grid. It's not the ecological of a flower and the life of a plant. You're creating a new ecosystem in the neighborhood.

Exactly. Yes, that's correct. Yes.

So now walk me through this ecosystem. So a kid goes through your program, learns the dignity of work and sees the joy of teamwork, creates new family, then what?

Yeah, so in terms of the ecosystem. So first you have to understand the existing ecosystem, because what we're really trying to do is displace an inferior ecosystem. Right. So the current ecosystem is you kind of have a kid, maybe grow up in a very rough situation, single mom household. For whatever reason, they find themselves being drawn to the street because like, street gangs operate as families for a lot of the youth that we work with. You know, you'd be a corner boy, you're making money, I mean, you know, a little bit of money, you know, sort of dealing drugs, that kind of deal. So that's like the current ecosystem, the current way things work. So, so with Eagle House, essentially, we tried to compete with that by doing a lot of the same things that you see gangs do, just trying to redirect them to a more positive conclusion. Right?

Good old fashioned capitalism, good old fashioned competition.

You have a choice over there or you might have a better choice over here. You're just offering an alternative.

Right, that's very accurate.

It is like a inverted sense of capitalism. You know what I mean?

It's community capitalism.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's true. Like our biggest competition equal House of the gang. That's who we're competing against. It's not other flower shops, it's not other nonprofits, it's the street gangs. Right. So we basically like looked at like, okay, well, what's appealing in that ecosystem, in that sort of sub world or that subculture, and how can we basically recreate that on our farms? Eco House also started out of, you know, my house. So it's very community oriented, you know, so if you were to come to Eco House, you know, like, you'll see like kids, they're around my personal kids, you know, my wife loves to make meals for them. It's a very family, community centric atmosphere. It's not like this sense where, hey, you got work nine to five and all we care about you is from a vocational standpoint. No, it's a more holistic, We Care about you as your family, as your, you know, I mean, so your employer. Of course there's rules. I mean, gangs have rules too, but there's this idea that, you know, you're more than just a widget in a large machine, right? And then similar to the gangs, we're right here in the block. So our farms are right in the community. So there's kids who literally live across the street from where they work. They get up, roll out bed at like 9:55am, they gotta be at work at 10 and they're right there.

Just.

Like any other job.

These are still like 19, 20 year.

Olds, you know, some things never.

And the other thing too is like, they get a lot of chances. Like we tell them on day one, like, hey, our goal isn't to get rid of, hey, you're not performing, so you're fired and we're forever done with you. So a lot of our kids, like, even if you're underperforming reduced hours, you're not being scheduled as often, you know, maybe get demoted to Our K through 12 youth program for a while, you know, or we try to find some other resources to help you out. Because as you can imagine, like a lot of these kids are coming from some very, you know, traumatic situations. So there's a lot of trauma that we have to work through with a lot of these young adults. But the whole idea is like, they understand that, hey, this is a place that I can come to for help, to make money, to be a part of my community, to kind of open up and talk about my problems. It operates similar to gangs because that's the kind of stuff that happens in the gang.

What is your success rate? Not financially, not as a business, but what is the success you have that the people who go through your program stay with it, that they don't go back to the competition, they don't go back to the gang.

At this point, I would say we're probably around 70 to 75% of retention and it's improved over the years. So essentially, basically what we found is the more we can develop and refine the business aspect of our organization, the better of a draw it is for the kids we're working with. Part of the reason why we are putting so much time in energy and resources into selling our flowers, right? Because ultimately, like, that's the hook. It's the same thing for the gangs, right?

You have become that unknown generous spirit in the lives of these boys and girls, these young men and women. You have become the unknown team member I think in some way, shape or form, you're teaching them faith.

I never thought about it like that. Hold up. I'm just digesting what you just said. But, yeah, there's a lot of truth in that. Yeah.

There are people who didn't realize they had choices. They didn't realize there was another path other than the fiction that they were following. And through an uncommon act of generosity from an ostensible stranger, they find themselves with more choice and more opportunity than they realized they had. Which is exactly your story.

Yes. I mean, the reason I'm kind of pausing is because it's kind of like hitting home a little bit of like, oh, wow. Like, in a weird sort of way, me going through all those trials and going through, like, my own story to get to this point was so that I could do what I'm doing today. You know, I never really thought about that. It's almost like, you know, you had to kind of go through this rough road and experience, say, all this uncommon generosity for you to then become generous yourself in a weird way. And so, I don't know, it's just kind of coming full circle. I just never really, like, connected it like that before, and it's emotional. Yeah. I hope that's the impact I'm having on these kids. You know, the way people who kind of come into my life at strategic points and really help me out, you know, willing to give me a chance when I didn't deserve a chance. Yeah. I hope that's how they feel, and maybe that is how they feel. They keep coming back. Yeah. It's very humbling to think about that. Have you sort of seen, you know, in your sort of development, you know, both personal, professional, where there's been a team of strangers that have helped you out along your path?

100%. Of course, I struggle to take credit for my own career because I think that's madness. Clearly, I played a part, but only a small part. The people who, many of whom I didn't know, who heard me or read my stuff and shared it with someone, gave it to someone, invited me back. I was not a part of any of those conversations, without a doubt. People who gave me opportunity out of the blue, people who gave me constructive advice when I didn't want to hear it and no one else was giving it to me. There were tons of strangers, some of whom I've become friends with, by the way. Those friendships are really deep, loving friendships, because the thing that connected us was an act of generosity when we were strangers.

Right.

So let me Sum up what I think I've learned today, and first of all, I have to say this. You are magical, and you have a contagious laugh. You are just magic. And you have taught me so much today. I have learned about the fact that life is uncertain. Any certainty we think we have some predestined path based on where we're from or the life we're supposed to live is entirely a work of fiction. And to choose a path of conviction, to choose a path of passion, has as much uncertainty as the fiction that we thought we were on. It was a false sense of certainty. And so why not choose the path of passion and conviction? I've learned from you that life is not a solo sport. And the team is a large group of people, many of whom we don't even know who our team is, who's on our team. And I find that actually very relaxing, actually very calming, to be honest, this belief that my team is there even if I can't see them. It actually makes me feel a lot safer that I'm not. Not doing this alone. And the more we put ourselves out there, the team will show up. But if we hide, the team doesn't know where we are.

Right?

You went to church as opposed to staying in the basement.

Yes.

You showed up. You gave the team the opportunity to serve you. And the other thing I learned is how funny life is, how much of an ecosystem our lives are. You know, you have all these definitions of ecosystem, and what you're doing now is basically your origin story. You know, you were a seed, now you've grown, and now you're replanting the exact seeds that you grew from. And by the way, that should be for all of us.

Yes. Yes, 100%.

And if we all keep planting the seeds that we came from, before you know it, we're living in a beautiful garden filled with color and bees and birds and life is bright and colorful and beautiful if we all just remember to keep planting our seeds and not.

Eating our seed and getting depressed. You know what I'm saying?

And on that note.

Keelan, thanks so much for taking the time. I can't tell you how grateful I am.

Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah. Appreciate you a lot, Simon.

So fun.

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