Rebuilding Community with Luma Mufleh | A Bit of Optimism with Simon Sinek: Episode 47

I first learned of Luma Muffler's work when I saw her TED Talk a number of years ago, and I was absolutely inspired by her and her story. The TED Talk was called don't feel sorry for Refugees. Believe in them. And that's exactly what her message was. It was one of empowerment. Luma has gone on to coach a soccer team just for refugees called, of course, the Fugees. And she started the first accredited school just for refugees. The schools are spreading across the United States, and she's giving refugees new hope to rebuild their communities. This is a bit of optimism.

Luma, thanks so much for taking the time. I first learned about you and your work from your TED Talk, like so many, and I was brought to tears and inspired by your work. You know, I'm a sucker for people who devote their lives to the service of others. You could have just focused on yourself. You made a life for yourself here. You figured things out for yourself here. What made you turn around and want to give back to the kids?

I mean, I think it was timing. Like, I had been focusing on myself. I had, you know, right after college, you know, tried to figure out what I wanted to do. I'd been waiting tables, clerked at a law firm, opened up my own cafe. I was like, I'm gonna, you know, live the American dream. And it wasn't working out. Like, it just wasn't. And I think a lot had to do was, because it wasn't what I wanted to do. And I accidentally made a wrong turn. Saw some kids playing soccer in a parking lot. And it reminded me of home. Like, I grew up in the. In Jordan. And, you know, the minute you can start walking, you learn how to play soccer. And it's what I. I saw these kids outside. I wanted to play. I grabbed my soccer ball and jumped in. And I know for a lot of people, it's, like, kind of creepy. You're like, what is an adult person, like, jumping into a kid's game? But all over the world, that's how you make friends and how you build community is around that beautiful game. The boys I first met were from Afghanistan, Sudan, and Liberia. They were shocked when I could pronounce their names correctly. They're like, where are you from? And I was like, no, I was born Jordan. I'm Muslim. That's why I can see. Say your Nurolla properly. And started making excuses to leave work early so I could play with them and then got to know more about their lives. You know, it's like we started a Soccer team. I'd been coaching club soccer for a while, and after practice, some of the kids would be like, coach, can you help us with our homework? Initially I was dismissive. I was like, go get your parents or your sister to help you. Not realizing that their parents were illiterate, not only in English, but in their own languages. And they kind of just exposed me to. To everything that was wrong, you know, especially in the education system. Like I was helping a kid with his homework. And they'd have grade level work even though they'd only been in school six months, like total in their life. And so they're expected to do fractions and multiplications when they didn't even know the number order. I had some kids that were. Had Romeo and Juliet and couldn't read a picture book. And what was even more shocking was that they all got A's and B's. I was like, how are you getting A's and B's if you can't read or write? And it shook me.

So how were they getting A's and B's if they couldn't read and write?

They didn't cause trouble in class. Teachers have too many kids. How do you teach a kid at the kindergarten level with a kid at the 8th grade level? Some teachers don't expect much from our community.

The point is they weren't getting an education. And these are kids who had come to the United States under various stresses at various ages. Some of them may have had some education back home, but probably because they left war torn countries or other stresses, education was the last thing on the priority list. Survival, I assume, was number one.

Yeah, survival. You know, first it's fleeing your country or getting to safety. And then once you get safety, it's eating right. Like, you're not thinking about school. You're thinking about how can my family eat.

So you played soccer with these kids. You start the. Is it a team or a league?

So I start a team.

The Fugees. Right?

Fujis. Yeah. A take on refugees. Yes. Like let's reclaim the word. And you start with one team. Siblings want to join. We end up being three teams and then four teams and then after school, tutoring. So it was like a backward design and then summer programming and then realizing that this was a band aid. Like, yeah, we felt good when we went out, played games. But the reality did not change. Our kids still lived in poverty. That cycle was not going to be broken. The majority of their day they spent in an environment where they were not set up for success. And Regardless of how good of an after school program or soccer team you're in, that can only do so much. And so I was like, if this was my kid, what would I do? I'd send them to school that could meet their needs. There wasn't a school. I couldn't afford private school. It was actually cheaper to start a school than send a kid to private school.

So where is your school?

So we have a school right outside of Atlanta, and our second school is in Columbus, Ohio.

And how do kids get in? You apply?

I had this issue when we were going through accreditation, and, you know, they're like, what's your application process? I was like, well, we take them out on the field and we have a tryout. And they're like, you can't have an athletic tryout. Like, that's illegal. You can't do that for a middle and high school. It's like, it's not an athletic tryout. Like, we have the kids come out, we run them for like the first two days of tryouts. It's three back to back days. First two days is all conditioning, and we're looking for the kid who's going to continue, is going to push themselves, who's going to show up on time. On the third day, we scrimmage. We're looking for the kid who helps others. Soccer is a team sport, and a lot of this has to do with the work that we're going to ask them to do is hard and we want them to show up. And regardless of what they're facing, they can get through it. We're not looking for the most athletic kid. We're looking for the kid that is hungry, that wants out, that wants something different. Then it's like whomever survives, right? And now it's gotten out. It's like, okay, if you survive tryouts, you're getting in. Then we do an academic test and we take the lowest performing kid because they're the ones that need it. So it's kind of like the flip of what a typical school looks for.

So how many kids do you have in each school?

We have almost 200 in Georgia and about 80 in Columbus.

Amazing. And how long have the schools been going?

Columbus for three years, Atlanta for 14.

You've built a remarkable culture in these schools because you're looking for grit, you're looking for accountability, you're looking for teamwork. It reminds me a little bit of a story I heard about the Navy SEALs, and I've shared this story before. A former Navy SEAL was asked what kind of person makes it into the seals. And he said, I can't tell you who makes it in, but I can tell you who doesn't make it in, he says the star college athlete who's never really been tested to the core of his being. None of those guys make it in, he said. The preening leader who likes to delegate everything. None of those guys make it in, he says the ones who show up with bulging muscles and tattoos to prove how tough they are, none of those guys make it in. He says some of the guys who make it into the seals are skinny and scrawny, and you'll see them shivering out of fear. But what they all have in common is when they're emotionally exhausted, when they're physically exhausted, when they have nothing left to give, they are able to dig down deep inside themselves some way somehow to find the energy to help the guy next to them.

Those are the guys you want on your team, Right?

And so what I think's magical is you're creating a school, how the world should operate. It's not just about personal ambition, but it's, how do we get through this? Not a how I get through this. It's how do we get A's? Not a how do I get an A? Have you ever watched the Great British Baking Show?

Yeah.

I love that show.

Why do you love it?

I love it because it's what competition should look like. Like they're all competing. It is a competition. There is a winner, and yet they root for each other, they help each other. Some of them are unabashed about their ambition. I would like to win, they say.

Yeah.

And yet still you see them help each other. And that's kind of how it should be, which is, the ability to help each other succeed in the same competition doesn't preclude us from advancing and winning ourselves. And so why not help? You can still do well if you help others.

And we've drifted so far away from that, you know. Yeah.

I find it ironic, you know, this country is basically a country of immigrants. You know, almost everyone here, except for Native Americans, came here looking for opportunity or running away from something awful, that we seem to have moved away from that immigrant mentality, that we're all in this together, that it takes a group of us, a community, to look out for each other and try and build each other up and grow as individuals and as a group. And it's kind of ironic that it's taking a group of refugees to remind us of where we came from and show us how we should be living.

Yeah. I mean, it's ironic in. In so many ways, right? But it's. I think what we show is like, the best of America and the best of the East. You know, how do those two come together? Like, individualistic and community practices. Like, it's just like you said, if you help someone else, doesn't mean you're going to get less.

Right.

Or you're not going to benefit. Right? But I just feel like recently it's like, well, if someone gets something, then I'm not getting it. It's like, nope, we've got enough for everyone. And you're always going to be learning, you know, just like you always learn from losing and competing against teams who are better than you. It doesn't mean you haven't won. It means there's more things to work on and other ways to look at it. Right. Like, it's.

Life is a kind of competition where multiple people can win simultaneously. Just because you win doesn't mean somebody has to lose. So now I'm really interested in the graduates you're producing. What did your school prepare them for? Did some of them go to college? I'm so curious the kinds of lives that they're living.

Some of them went to college. Some of them have finished college. Some of them went to community college. Some of them went right to work. When we ask kids, hey, what is it that you want to do? After you push a little bit, we'll usually get the typical answer. I want to be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. And you just keep asking, like, what is it that you want? And they'll say, well, I just want to take care of my mom. It's like, all right, that's one we can take care of, right? So let's find things that you are good at, things that you love doing. And so that's why we don't have one. Portrait of a graduate, Right.

Can you tell me a story of a specific student whose experience perfectly captures what you're trying to do?

I think there's two. So the first one is one of my Somali players, graduated high school, ended up doing an aviation mechanics program in Middle Georgia. He loved working with his hands. He loved fixing things. He didn't want to sit in a classroom all day. So that was like, a perfect match for him. He has two brothers who are deaf and felt he needed to take care of everyone. And after he finished his program, he started being a valet at one of the Atlanta restaurants to support his family. His dad had been diagnosed with cancer. He needed to earn money to pay the bills and support and make sure his younger siblings were in school. And then had a breakdown and wanted to figure out how to practice what he had studied and figured out a way to pay for his test that he had to take. And he ended up getting a job with American Airlines. Loved what he did, started earning money, moving his way up. But the one moment that stands out to me is he sent me a picture one day, and it was a house that looked very familiar. And I was like, are you in my old neighborhood? It was a picture of a house down the street from where I used to live. And he's like, yeah. I said, why are you sending a picture of this house? It's not my house. And he's like, no, I just bought it for my mom.

Wow.

And he was like, so happy and so proud. And that was what he wanted to do. He wanted to take care of his mom. He never gave up. And he always saw light, like there was always hope. And I think it's very easy with our kids to pigeonhole it and say, it's so bad. It's so terrible. Look at what I've been through. Look at what my family's been through. You know, they left Somalia, they came here, his dad gets cancer and passes. It's like one thing after the other. And it's like, nope, we can do it. We're so lucky. And it's his persistence and his optimism. He wants to take care of others. It's family. Like, that's what you do. You take care of each other.

One of the things that I'm learning from you is that service, service mindedness can indeed and is taught. It's not because of their experience, but they're in an environment in which teamwork and service is the standard. And so it's, it's in them. How do we scale what you're teaching your kids so that more than just fugees can learn this magical lesson, but rather that we can bring these lessons to all schools in America?

I mean, I think it's like a change of mindsets because I initially I'd say, okay, we should introduce team sports. Every kid should play it all the time, right? But with the wrong coach, it's going to be a win at all costs, right? Not every kid plays, not everyone learns, not everyone supports each other. When we get report cards at school, we read them in front of each other, the entire school. So you get up and you read your report card. And it's not to be like, oh, this one has an F. I have an A. It's like one of my teammates is struggling. What do I need to do to help them? And so you see, if a student gets an F, their neighbor is now making sure they wake up and go to school on time. If they're acting out in class, the entire class, stop. You got to behave because you've got to pass. We're all responsible for that F. We focus so much on, well, we're celebrating all the A's. We have honor roll and all that. But it's like, why aren't we paying attention to those that need our help? And why aren't we equipping other kids who are doing well that they have a responsibility to help? Not to be like, well, I have an A. That's great, because now we're not going to be competing for college rank, like valedictorian, all that.

So every kid is responsible to read their report card out to the entire school. And I know what so many people are thinking as they hear that, which is, how humiliating for the ones who don't do well. I would never want my kid to do that because I wouldn't want them to be humiliated. I want to know the speech you give each time before the report cards are read out.

Our team is only as strong as our weakest player, and our schools are only as strong as our weakest students. And if anyone in our community needs help, we help them. And if anyone is struggling, it is everyone's responsibility in this room because we all want to say, hey, I was responsible in helping that kid get that a right. But you're also responsible for that kid getting that F. And that's every single person in that room, from the coaches to the teachers to their classmates to their friends in every grade. And they get up and they read it, and you feel like you've got. I mean, it's a community, but this entire team behind you, because sometimes kids get Fs. Or when we fail, you know, we, like, lock the doors. We're so embarrassed. We don't want to talk about it know, unless we can, like some tech person where that's celebrated. You failed. But now here's your redemption story. Right? But why aren't we teaching that at a young age? Well, here's your F. Here's how you can get out of it. It's not the end of the world. And so when our kids experience any type of failure, they know what they need to do to get out of it. We have one kid, like, he had been in the country less than four weeks. And he got up to read his report card and all Fs, but he came up to read it. He couldn't read. The paper was flipped upside down. He had it facing. Never been in a school before and you know, no one said anything. And then six weeks later, he's getting up to read and there was a 1F, a couple of Cs, 1B. And the entire school started clapping. And every kid in that room had seen him learn to read because of the effort everybody put behind that. And that was progress, right? And then it continued to be that. And I think when you know that you are part of a community, then you are held more accountable.

How do we do that in work? Because what you're talking about is honesty. What you're talking about is candor. What you're talking about is I see myself as part of a community, as part of a team, as part of a company. I cannot be expected to succeed by myself. And as you said, by putting so much celebration on only on those who succeed, it, it creates a pressure to either lie, hide and fake or, or use any means to get that high grade for fear of slipping or fear of looking down, which could lead to some sort of rather unethical ways of getting those A's. Yeah, kids who are constantly, constantly cheered and succeeded because there are straight A students all the time. And people say to them, oh, I knew you do well, you're so smart. I knew you do well, you're so smart. But later in life, a significant number of them actually don't overachieve because they're afraid of falling off the pedestal. Average students who are rewarded for their growth, you know, good job. You really moved that C to a B. Well done. I knew you had it in you. They do much better in life because for them, there's no pedestal to fall off. How do we create incentive programs at work that part of your incentive is helping someone, not just achieving yourself? Like, one group, you know, hits their numbers, we give them a huge bonus. Another group misses their numbers, we give them nothing. How do we ensure that the successful group is helping the less successful group?

Well, because you're part of a bigger team, right? Like you can pit them against each other for something that's like a little healthy. But then what are we learning from each other and how are we making sure we have a well rounded team that everybody, everybody has a role to play?

I think you're highlighting something which is life is not an individual sport. Life is a team sport. When we look at data of individual athletes versus team athletes. For example, Michael Phelps becomes the most medaled Olympian in history, which was his dream, after which depression. Andre Agassi becomes the most celebrated tennis player in history, after which depression. Because they've surrounded themselves with people only to help them with their ambition. And they find that if they achieve it, and very few actually do achieve it, it doesn't make them feel better because now they have no friends and they've got no support structure and it's very lonely. Team athletes don't have that.

No. And I would even argue that soccer, like, it's the only sport where the coach is not in control. You have taught your players, you've trusted them. You're maybe like giving some inspiration and keeping temperaments down. But like, I can't call a timeout. I have to trust that I have taught them and they're going to get creative and do what they want. And that's what's beautiful about it, is they have to rely on each other.

So soccer is unique here. It's not about all team sports. I mean, although all team sports may teach them something, you believe soccer stands head and shoulders above the rest because as you said, it inherent is team reliance.

You need all 11 players to do well. One player can't carry a team. You know, some people say, well, Messi can't, you can't, LeBron can, Tom Brady can. We've seen that happen. But in soccer, your whole team. Your whole team. So you've got to take care of each other. But I do think all team sports contribute. Yeah.

The refugee crisis around the world is gaining more and more press because it's more and more dire. People leaving totalitarian regimes and war torn places or places that offer them no opportunity to provide for their families and they go off looking for better lives. I'm just curious what your commentary is, what your point of view is given the state of the world right now. Because I assume you are seeing more people applying to your schools, right?

Yeah. And we're seeing school districts reach out to us. So that's what we're mapping out is how do we support school districts instead of just opening more schools? How can we have them implement our model in their communities and learn to understand the different demographics who are coming in? I think it's a good thing that people are focused on it right now. You know, Afghanistan has brought it back front and center. I hope it's not. Well, here it is for the next few months and then we move on. Some days I'm optimistic. Some days I'm just depressed that the world where leaving our children is going to be worse than the one we were in. And that's just like a number of refugees. It's. It has not gone down. It hasn't even plateaued. It just keeps going up. And we don't change what we're doing. We don't change how we stop wars, how we stabilize regions. We just continue repeating history. I mean, that's why we're in the position we're in. Like, I was trying to explain to my daughter what happened in Afghanistan, you know, and I was like, we're trying to help Waheed's grandmother get out. And. And she's like, what happened? I said, well, we gave it to the Taliban. And she looked at me, she's like, the Taliban? The ones who shot Malala? And I was like, yeah. And she just couldn't understand it. And it's like, it's that simple. We know that we don't agree with brutality and murder and genocide, and why aren't we putting a stop to it? Why aren't we stabilizing countries so people never have to leave? It shouldn't be like, can we take more in? It's like, no, Nobody wants to leave their home. That is not an experience I want anyone to ever have to do. And so what can we do as a society to make places more peaceful?

This discussion is fraught with irony. As you said, the way you help refugees is by creating a place where they never have to make the decision to leave. There should be no refugees. It should be a rare thing, not such an epidemic thing.

And I've always like, well, World War II, that was going to be where everybody. Right? And then it was like, which war is going to be like, we've had enough. This can't continue. Yeah, I don't know what needs to happen for people to be like, this is not acceptable.

Do you have a mentor? Is there someone in particular who inspires you or you look to.

I have, like, my grandmother's voice in my head all the time she's passed. But, like, everything that she has done and the way she looked at life and peace, people, and that's always there.

Where was she from?

Syria. So she left with her kids when the first civil war.