Winning Ironman UK with Brian Fogarty

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Treat getting your threshold up and then move that into your endurance as you get closer to the longer races.

That was Brian Fogarty and this episode is winning Ironman uk. Welcome back to the Tribeathlon podcast. In this episode I got the opportunity to chat to Brian Fogarty. Now, he's the cousin of the superbike legend Carl Fogerty, but he is also the winner of Ironman uk, but he did so as an amateur. So I really wanted to understand what it takes to win an Ironman while holding down not just a job, but actually running a your own business. And also how he stays injury free and and how he keeps motivated about his training when some people will find training a chore. So it's fantastic to chat to Brian. Really lovely guy, super enthusiastic about the sport and I hope you learn as much from Brian as I did.

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Brian, welcome to the Tribathlon podcast. Amazing that you can join us. Thank you very, very much. Really looking forward to chatting to you. But before we dive into kind of.

Some technique tips and all that sort.

Of stuff for those people that don't know you, do you want to give us your story? Tell us how you know where you came from, how you got into this amazing sport, the successes you've had along the way. Tell me all about it.

Right, yeah. Hey Charlie, thanks for having me. Basically I was a footballer all my youth, that was all I did. Football, football, football from being, you know, as early as I could walk all the way up till leaving school, assigned full time terms football club. Spent three years there as an apprentice basically. Unfortunately, you know, for various reasons but I didn't make the grade. A lot of injuries. So I got released when I was about 19, went down the semi professional route. Eventually needed to get work because, you know, I was a young lad. I wanted to enjoy my life a bit and so I got a job like playing semi professional. Enjoyed my time there. But as that period went on I just got a bit disillusioned with football. Fell out of love if I'm honest with it. And I needed something to grasp me with my personality. I'm quite driven, determined sort of guy. I needed something to fulfil that really. And that's when I took up running. I've joined a local running club, met some great group of people and took off from there. As that happened I sort of set up my own business with my brothers selling insurance, insurance brokers. So that worked well because the semi pro football, you know, it can take up a lot of time and sometimes you. The thing with that is a team sport. So you see, you know, I always felt that you felt unfulfilled whereas you can have a good game and still get beat. And I just thought I wanted something that was down to me and me only, that I could train for and commit to and. And it were running. I set up running, started running within no time. I sort of done a couple of marathons. First one, after about 12 months of running I did 2:45 at Amsterdam. So I got a decent pedigree to start with as a club runner. Yeah, that was in Amsterdam. Yeah. And basically from that being me I committed a lot to it and started going down the wrong path in terms of training too hard over training created a lot of injuries and ultimately I had a serious stress fracture in my shin. Started off shin splints turned into stress fracture. Very deliberating injury. Just couldn't, wouldn't go. Eventually I was in cast and out for a long time and so over that period I needed something to fill that void. What do you could say I've got an addictive personality? I suppose you could, you know, I'm all or nothing and there are a couple of guys at the running club who'd done Ironman and it always intrigued me, it was always something I fancied a shot at. I didn't know much about it, obviously, learning distances and it just looks like it's a challenge, isn't it? And I think that's what appeals to a lot of people. That challenge is something what a lot of people think you could never do. So that was it. I was still injured at the time. I committed to doing Ironman sort of six months later. Hadn't swam, hadn't barely ridden a bike. Same old story of a lot of them. So I committed to it, did what I did, took to it, and luckily for me, within no time, my cycling proved quite, quite natural to me. So with the swimming and running soon getting to a good level, my running, my swimming, sorry, my running and biking was at a good level. My swimming was lagging a bit, but enough to get me through my first Ironman.

Which was where?

Switzerland. Switzerland.

Okay, great.

Beautiful place, really nice race. And that was it then. To be honest, Charlie, I was hooked on the sport and I thought, I've got to come back for more. And just each year then I've just improved and improved.

So what was your first, can you remember what your first time was in Switzerland?

Roughly nine. Sorry, sorry. Well, no, 11. Just over 11 hours on a road bike. So, you know, I didn't have the extras. Like I was clueless. It was just a case of getting around. There was no real targets at times and things.

And how long ago was that?

Pardon?

How long ago was that? Sorry.

That was 2011, my first one. And then, yeah, I did one I did the year after I did Frankfurt. I did. Well, the turning point probably for me from sort of 2000 Frankfurt in 2012. And then that following year I got a coach and he gave me a lot of structure because a lot of times, as you know, it's a minefield. You can read advice off everyone. You just don't know what to do if you fall. You just think, you get confused, you don't know what to do. There's so much advice out there and some of it's good, some of it's bad and some works for some, some works for others. I got a guy who was great, he helped me get on the way, really brought out my cycling. So it was like the point from going from being like a first timer to becoming a top age grouper was that sort of period from 2011, 2012, 2013 was when I did my home race at Bolton, UK Ironman. And knowing the roads, I live on the course basically. So I was riding it all through the Winter and getting used to it and it was a bit of a shock come the day I think I come like 10th overall qualifying for corner and that was it. It was from there I was like, wow, this is unreal and sort of created a bit of noise and that was it. Then obviously went to corner and just started was the period where then I just started really understanding it and getting to know what it was all about. And then from there I just kept, you know, chipping away at it and chipping away at all my weaknesses and building on my strengths.

Fantastic. And to bring it forward to 2019, you then went on and won UK Ironman, didn't you?

Yeah, yeah. And that was, you know, that journey from 2013 when I did my first UK Ironman 2019. If you'd have said. If I'd have said in my first one that someday I'm going to come back and win it. But sorry if I said in 2011 I was going to come and do that. But it was 2013 when I had such a good result coming sort of 10th winning my age group as a bit of a surprise, I thought bloody hell, imagine if I can keep this improvement going one day. You never know. And I sort of planted that seed and that was where I went from it and just thought, one day I'm going to bloody win that race. Me being my home race, I know the course so well. I do have advantages with that, friends and family there. It's an amazing day.

But that's incredible, isn't it? And what age were you when you did that first 11 hour ish marathon?

Ironman 27.

27. So you've come to the sport?

I don't know.

Is that relatively late for coming to sport?

I don't know.

I mean Ironman is a slightly different weird sport when it comes to that.

It is, yeah. I mean I think anyone that comes into Ironman and has a swimming background as a child has a good advantage. I didn't have that as most don't. So I'd say that's the thing. I think the running and biking can be developed in that time because like you say, the guys now are proving that you can be into your 40s and still improving, which is never really known, is it in any sport but in this game it seems to be the case. Whether it's because it's the strength and endurance aspect and the speed element isn't quite as important.

Yeah, I think they say that the body gets to its peak for endurance about sort of 27, 28 but it then declined at such a slow rate that actually you get back to where you were at age 18, when you're north of 60. It's incredible how the body kind of maintains its ability to do endurance sport and. So what was Kona like? How many times have you been to Kona and describe it and tell us what it's like?

It's six times now. I did five in a row, then I missed the year, then I went back last year. I mean, the first time out there, it was weird, really, because we just didn't know what to expect and. Amazing, amazing place. It's hard to describe. Really special place. Really special. You can only really grasp that once you've been there. The conditions are so unique. The course, the atmosphere and the history. The history. When you do your research and look into the races over the years, you just feel like you're part of something special and, you know, it's a big expense, but it's a real lifelong sort of thing to go and do. I stress to anyone, if you get the opportunity, you know, don't let it go because it's special.

Brilliant.

But the pinnacle, isn't it?

Yeah, well, exactly. It's, you know, you can say that you've raced at the very best and what's been your. What's your favorite performance? Which was it your most recent one or.

My best. My first time actually was, up until last year was my best, I would say, in terms of performance. And I think that was because I played it safe. It was about obviously surviving. I knew the conditions, I'd heard about how, so I played it safe. My first one, I did like 9:30 and I was a complete novice. The thing was, I was a victim of. Every year since I'd improved and what had happened, I mean, over them six, there's been a few issues with them, with hydration issues and tummy problems. But as a rule, I think the downfall with my performance in corn over the years have been because I've been a better athlete, I've gone harder, I've tried to, you know, I've gone out with high ambitions and it's probably worked in the reverse. Whereas this year I had a new plan and I actually was forced to have a new plan because in the week prior I became a bit pearly. So I thought, I'm going to have to back off now, really, you know, just because I. I don't want it to be turned into an absolute disaster. And this year I just did over nine hours, which was nowhere near what I know I can do. But in terms of what I've done previously, it was a good step in the right direction, so I was pleased. So this year is probably my best performance, but I know I can do a lot better.

Fantastic. And so of all of these achievements so far, what's been your highlight so far?

Winning Bolton was just amazing. Just a real surreal feeling to actually. To say it, and I don't say it out loud, but within myself, it was something I was gonna do, I was determined to do it. And when you do, you know, it's like when you follow it through, it just makes you that bit extra special.

Being your sort of home course, as you say, with people there to support you and everything else, that's. That must be brilliant. And I've never done Ironman uk, so how does that compare to some of the others that you've done?

It's by far the toughest in terms of the course. The course itself, the course is the toughest. You've not got the conditions. So, like, I mean, I generally, I do the harder Ironman because they suit me as an athlete. My swimming, you know, I need to try and get the best out of the bike I can. So your Lanzarotes, your Wales, your Boltons, your corners to an extent suit me. So I do them. And I feel like the more honest courses, I'm not really interested in these draft fests and people are running off it fresh and because they've sat in a pack, it doesn't, you know, it loses its appeal to me. Does that. It doesn't work in my favour and it just doesn't interest me not to say I won't do one down the line to go for a time, you know. But no, it's, at the minute, it's that. So Bolton, it's this year specifically that the bike course was as brutal as it's ever been. I mean, it's known for being tough, but this year, as in last year, was just unreal. The climbs and the road surface and it's just at times you've got to laugh, it's that rough. But it is what it is, you know, So, I mean, we were riding around it on a weekend and we were just laughing, thinking, God, people that are coming from far and away to come and do this race, they've no idea what they've got themselves in for. It's. But, you know, sometimes the fact it's tough is a big appeal to a lot of people because there isn't, to my knowledge, really a race like it well again.

And didn't they. Was it last year that they split the transition area? Is that right? Or was that the year before? Was there two different.

No, they've always been different.

Oh, have they?

Oh, okay. Yeah, they've always been different. They did move it the last two years they've moved transition T2 into the town. Made it harder in fact, because the run now is just literally up, down, up, down. Whereas once over you had like an 8 mile flat stretch to get to the loops, if you will, which was quite good running. So you sort of got onto the hard bit and you ticked off, you know, a third of a third of the run, which was always nice. But not this year. They'd made it harder.

Okay, fantastic. And so I want to dive into a few bits that maybe you can help us with in terms of, you know, the specific elements that helped you, you know, improve the way that you have. But the first one I want to dive into is the fact that you have a full time job. You say you run your own business. I run my own business and I train for an ironman, but nothing like to the degree that you're doing. So how do you, how do you fit it all in? And I know you've got, you know, you're a dad as well. How do you, what's a typical week look like for you? How do you fit in the training that you need to get to the level that you're getting to?

Quite simply get up early is the biggest thing I'd say to anyone. And I find it's always a special time to train. It takes a bit of getting used to if you're not used to it because your body needs to adapt. But within a week or two, getting up early before everyone else, I don't know. There's something special about getting up a training in the morning. I feel like you used to get a head start on everyone and that's where I have to do it so many times. I get a chance to do it really without any distractions. So early starts are given every single day.

What time would you typically be jumping out of bed each day?

Five o'? Clock? Yeah, I'm lucky as well. On top of that, I live my gym, my office, where my gym is and my home. It's all very close. It's literally next door but one. So I keep everything, you know, very close knit. I've got a treadmill so I'm able to, you know, utilize. Obviously I do a lot of indoor training so just utilizing your time. The Best you can. I mean once when the pools are open, I'll run to swimming and run back. So I'm getting, just trying to tie things together to get the best out of your situation. Because time is my most valuable thing, you know, thing. And just make it, make every bit of training count. You just. We can't afford to let days go. So when we get the green light to go and get a training done, it has to be done. And that's when the last 18 months I think I've improved when really in a lot of ways having a child, it's been the hardest period. My mindset's changed a little bit in that if I'm going to do it, I need to do it now. I'm not going to get another chance. And it seems to work. You get that extra bit of push, I suppose you just do it because you don't have a choice. When you don't have a choice, you do it, don't you? It's quite interesting when you think about it. You don't give yourself a choice, you just got to do it and that's it. And week after week. But I also sort of, I don't train for IRONMAN Sort of 52 weeks a year. For me it's sort of you stay fit all year. I don't think we can afford as amateurs who are time restricted to have huge amount of times off in the off season. I don't think that works. Doesn't work for me. I don't set it for my athletes. So you've got to stay fit, keep improving, keep chipping away your weaknesses and building on your strengths. But when an Ironman's coming into the race season, you sort of 10 weeks, you just, you can up it for the 10 weeks, get that training that you need to get in to suit the longer race and then, you know, recover from that. So that's how I find it works. You certainly can't, you can't bang out your 25, 20, 30 hours a week. What these pros do, it's just not possible.

So what sort of hours are you banging out in the lead up to an Ironman whilst maintaining a job and keeping a happy family? What sort of hours?

I think compared to Pros, I'm probably 16 to 18, no silly hours. I mean, but I'm a big advocate of quality over quantity. You know, going out, spinning your legs. I mean again, if you're a pro, you've got as much time in the world. I'm sure there's huge benefits in going on big six hour rides every week. I just don't think we can do it. And I don't think you're going to get your biggest gains from that. That's how I find it. I think it's got to be done. You've got to have the quality there.

And so are you a big believer in just following what a coach says? A coach designs a program and you just follow it to the letter or are you kind of designing it yourself now? How does that work?

No, I as you mean you've been doing it as long as I have. You sort of. You learn what works for you. But I mean, you've interviewed Matt. I'm coaching the biking aspect by Matt and I coach myself. And I don't think that, you know, you have to be flexible with your training plans, with programs with amateurs because like last week I had to cancel the appointment, our appointment, because of circumstances that comes up and you've got to be flexible. You can't be too rigid. But obviously I will work with Matt. We will discuss things. But as a plan, I generally do whatever he sets me. I will do as best I can. I don't believe in not having a bit of flexibility. There's always got to be that flexibility in people's training. You don't want to be too anal about things because your improvements aren't done by one session. It's over months and months of sessions, week, day in, day out. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Consistency. It's all about consistency. It's so important to get the gains. I can't stress that enough. For me it's got to be done. It's consistency.

Brilliant. And is there anything specific? You mentioned tubby problems that you had at Kona. Have you kind of worked out anything that works particularly well for you with regards to nutrition, whether it be pre and post race nutrition or whether it be actually at the event. Is there anything that you think worked really well for you?

Yeah, don't try new things. I mean again, these old basics, but don't try new things. I've messed up a few corners through trying things late on new things. Nutrition aspect, it was a company ph hydration I think they're called. And I did like an online test. There's two ways of doing. You can get a physical one where you pay for it and get exact numbers in terms of your salts, what you have to take or you can do. I did the test one and I'm not blaming them, but whatever I did, I got it wrong and literally Two years ago, three years ago, I was just half an hour into the bike and I was just. I weren't right at all. And I felt dehydrated. Might not have been that. Put it down to that. Might just swallowed some salt water. So I can't honestly say for sure, but I'm just a fan of. I don't take many solids on the bike, if any. I don't believe that's the way to do it. Your muscles need your blood when you're racing, blood's in your stomach to digest the food. When you're racing, there's no blood in your stomach to digest the solid food. So it doesn't work for me. Some people, it works for it. Solids don't work for me while I'm racing. So it's all through gels, as liquefied as I can. Gels and carb drink.

That's got to be a fair bit amount of gel. I mean, I've never quite found. I'm just starting to find the gels that might suit me, but I found plenty that don't suit me, put it that way. And that's quite a lot of gel to be going in over that period of time, isn't it?

It is. It's tough. It's not easy, that's for sure. I mean, I find the ote. The OTE stuff, support the Brownlees. I find that works for me best. Nice and light. Yeah. I mean, a few people especially said to me, oh, you've got to eat stomach, you've got to eat something. And I just can't. It doesn't work for me. I. Whenever I've had solids in an iron man, I've had tummy problems. So I don't, you know, doesn't you got. Everyone's different, aren't they, Charlie? You've got to find that balance. And that's when people ask me, you've got to try it. You've got to practice and you've got to try it and make sure it works. Just keep hydrated when it's hot, keep on top of your fluids. Yeah, there's no real secret to it. We're all looking for that secret, aren't we? But there isn't. There really isn't.

Nutrition. Having asked quite a few people, the reason I ask about nutrition is because everyone's got a different slant on it. You know, you speak to some of these ultra runners and they're eating pizza while they're running, but, you know, it's completely different world.

But sometimes it's a case of I wonder whether is that just a mental thing, Just that feel that something in your tummy to fill you up? You know, I don't know.

I'm trying to train myself to eat while running because I think for me it was partly out of necessity and I wasn't finding gels that particularly work for me. But I think you're right. I think that there is something nice about having a little bit of food going through the system. And so maybe it's a psychological thing, but I also figure if I want to run further than a marathon, potentially I've got to start getting some solids in. But maybe not if you find the right gel. And obviously you said injury obviously hampered your football career. Then when you started running, you had shin splints and you had a lot of injuries there. Have you found anything that really kind of stops you getting injured now? Have you kind of worked out what to do to keep those at bay?

Two things, really. A coach that's gonna spot you over doing things. So I mean, the idea of a coach obviously is to give you that balance and you're not overdoing. And that's the beauty. That's what drew me to triathlon as well. The fact that in a way you're cross training.

A little addition on the podcast.

You effectively cross training, aren't you? All the time, every day. And I think that if you do it right, it's a big thing. Gives your whole body a much stronger foundation. You know, you're building your shoulders, you're building your core, you build different parts of your muscles. The biking and running, if your program's right, I think you're a big way there of not overdoing, you know, your over injuries. The other big thing I'm huge on is regular strength work. Again, don't need to complicate it. Your basic squats, deadlifts, your foundation sort of stuff works for me. Ever since I've been on that cold muscles thing like touch ward. Never had a problem. Never.

That's fantastic.

Not big sessions that are going to compromise your other training. It's to compliment your other training. And yeah, I'm a huge advocate of that. Works for me. Doesn't work for others though.

Well, I found it interesting. So with lockdown, you know, obviously swimming pools were closed and Rutland water, which is my typical open water swimming location, that was closed as well. So I had to sort of design a dry land workout that would keep me ticking over. We actually now, we've now found some good. So this morning. I did 3k swimming in the river then, which is lovely. I'm actually really enjoying it. So how have you. How have you kept your swimming ticking over during lockdown again?

Just basic sort of exercises, like you're saying.

Wild swimming. What, you haven't got into wild swimming?

No, no. I mean, for me, I could go and do a leg swim now, but until I've gone that long without swimming now, I'm not strong enough swimming for it to make a difference. And I don't love it, I'll be honest, I don't love it enough to go and do it. So for me, until pills open and I can get back to doing two solid sessions a week for maybe six weeks to get anywhere back to where my level was, just go and do an old swimming every other week or even once a week. It's not gonna work for me. So I haven't been anywhere near and I'm not missing it, to be honest.

Well, I have to admit, if you'd said this to me beforehand, I'd have said, yeah, I'll happily stick with a dry land workout for now. But I've really enjoyed it. In fact, so much so that I've said when things get back to normal, I think we should, through the summer have one pool session and one open water session. Because I think swimming in these rivers, it's just been absolutely brilliant. Really enjoyed it.

Good. I mean, if you can enjoy it, obviously you're more inclined to, you know, if you enjoy it, you'll do better. If you don't hit something, you're not going to improve at it. No, it's good that. I mean, I should do that more, more open water, because that's where your races are going to be, aren't you?

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And what about. I mean, there's so much to do with endurance sport that's around mental techniques and kind of your mental strength. Have you got any particular advice around that? Any techniques that you use to kind of either get you through training or get you through races?

I visualize a lot. Yeah. I'll visualize, you know, beating Joe Skipper and Iron man or whatever. And I have a few, few people. I've got, I've got marks and yeah, I visualize it. I do, yeah, I think it works. I'm a big believer in it. I'm not much more. Just, just. I find I go through phases, whatever. I find something most days, like certainly weeks, something I've used something to get me out of bed in the morning to go and do that training, you know, and I don't go through the motion. When you find yourself going through the motions, you've got to relight that fire to get that. Get that, you know, get it back. Because you can slip, can't you, quite quickly and you think, well, I'm not progressing here. I've lost that edge. You've got to find a way of getting it back. And whether it's having the birth of your child or you want to win a race, you want to beat a pb, whatever, you've got to find it. There's only you that can do it. In motivation. People doubting me is one of my biggest motivations. I just, you know, it fuels me.

Excellent. And I think, actually, I mean, you hit the nail on the head earlier, maybe as well, that. I think a lot of people, myself included, that get into this sport have an addictive personality. And it's about making sure that addiction is working well for you as opposed to against you. And as long as you kind of get yourself on the right track, then you kind of. That compels you to move forward, doesn't it?

Yeah. There's a fine line between dedicated and addicted with your training. You've got to have a purpose on you. It's got to be. There's got to be reason for doing what you're doing. You know, I've known people who just kept repeating the same thing, saying, that's fine, but is it working? You know, and you're like, you're not improving. So you've got to change, haven't you? You've got to adapt and change and try new things.

Yeah, I agree. And what's the worst advice you hear?

God, there's probably. There's laws. There's laws in there. There's that much rubbish out there.

Well.

I think the typical one is long and slow. I say again, you just train long and slow. You're just going to be good at being long and slow. You know, you've got to put the intensity into your training to move those levels. You know, it's like so relative. If you can't run a mile in 6 minutes, you can forget about running a 10k in 36 minutes. You get your mile faster, you'll get your 5k faster. It's all relative, you know, and that's what I try and constantly do, is sort of, you know, you're working on your threshold is, you know, the main sort of thing to do your training, keep getting your threshold up and then move that into your endurance as you get closer to the longer aces. Yeah, that's what I think. And what about.

Is there any particular products that you found? I mean, you've obviously, you mentioned the OT gels, but anything else, like, you know, any particular shoes or any particular, you know, anything you thought, you know what, that was worth the money. That's really helped.

There's a lot. It's marketing, isn't it? I mean, I fall for it all the time. We're all looking for. For that extra gain. And I said last year, I'm done. We're falling for this marketing of these new aero poles or new this, new pads, new this. Oh, that's 200 quid. Carbon fibre this, that. And I think, oh, my God, they can't suddenly just found that 20 watts in a tunnel. And here you go. You know, I'll be honest, I think a lot. There's something in it, definitely. But you've got to be careful. You don't overlook the basics before you start looking for one watt here and there, a pair of cycling shoes. They're all. They're all good. Even the bikes, all the super bikes, they're all fast bikes. There's no major difference in them. Helmets, slight differences sometimes, if it fits you better. But you've got to not overlook the basics first. And most people, before they start looking and spending fortunes in that. I mean, the typical one is people spending ten grand on a bike. But unfortunately, if I stone overweight, it's counterproductive. It sort of, you know, so what would I say, honestly, And I'm not saying this because I'm investing in a good coach. I honestly think if you're going to invest in yourself, get a good coach who knows the stuff, has got the experience, can relate to you. If you're doing Iron man, make sure they know Iron Man. Because if you don't know Ironman, if you've not done an ironman, don't be coaching Ironman because you just don't know. You've not got the experience. But by far, for me, if you're gonna. If you come to me, you want to improve and be the best you can be, get a coach before you start spending money on the extras which cost thousands and it's marginal.

And so you giving coaching for triathletes, are you?

Yes. Yeah.

And do you do that just through training peaks or what format does that.

Take through training peaks? Yeah, I'm part of Tri Central uk. Tony Cullen. Yeah, we did really well last year at Bolton. Sort of had, yeah, I mean, we had about Four or five people qualified corner and some really, really high up in the numbers, you know, maybe five in the top, five in the top 10 in the race. Yeah, you know, I've had, you know, by this time we sort of know what we're doing. So, yeah, yeah, I'm passionate about it. I love it because I feel like I've got a lot to offer in the coaching sort of aspects.

Do you think the future will take you more towards that or will you, will you be turning pro to, to do this full time?

It's very good. It complements an ideal scenario that would be the case but with me having my own business, it has its perks but then it has its downsides as well because, you know, I've got to be there and I want to. It's my business, my baby. I need to keep my hands in on that. But I would love to. I mean, I did actually. I'd do a year as pro, Charlie. Not last year, the year before. And it just coincided with me having a serious injury, a few bits of bad luck here and there and it turned into a bit of disaster. And they don't. Ironman, they don't give you really an incentive to be a pro. I'd had the results to become a pro. I mean, you've got to have your sort of criteria from race results to apply for a pro license. And I gave it a whirl but nothing changed. I mean, there's only a handful of races. I'm realistically going to earn prize money. I found the stress of it a bit much and I was coinciding with my daughter being born. So until things fit right for me and there's a big enough pull for me to go and race professional, there's no need, there's no point. I'm not a professional in that I can do it full time. So I'm not earning enough money from it to earn a living to pay the bills. So there's not really, I don't know what people. Sometimes people get a bit obsessed with, oh, I've got to be pro, gotta be pro. Well, for what reason? You know, it's a nice feeling and I'm glad I did have that year as a good experience. But no rush to go back unless.

It'S, Unless the timing is perfect for a particular reason.

Yeah, I mean, I will, I intend to, I do. Because I've got a lot, a lot more, a lot more improvements still to make, you know, in my run in all aspects, to be honest, a hell of a lot what's the fastest you think you can go? Course dependent, obviously. I'd like to believe that I'll get to sort of running 250s off the bike. I believe when I'm on form, on any given course, certainly hilly course, I can compete with anyone in the world. I'm not being big egg there. I think I've sort of proved that with my results in the past with Lanzarote and Wales. And my times are up there with the best, certainly Bolton. I've had the fastest bike split there on numerous occasions and my swim is. In terms of the pro aspect. If I'm going to do that, take that step again because that was a big learning curve to swim. I was. As you set off first within 200 meters, I'm by myself. I'm mostly by myself. So like Wales. But I was lost. I actually got lost because I just didn't know anyone was. It was. It was. It was an experience. But so I need to. I need to. I need to address that, you know. You know.

It'S gotta be the best way round, though, hasn't it? Because if you're a really. A friend of mine is a really quick swimmer and then he spends the rest of the race having people come by him, he just knows that's it gets out of the water and then the rest of it is motivational. Downhill the whole way.

Definitely. That would be demoralising. I am glad. Yeah. And that's what sets me athletes, you know, ultimately, if you are going to be. You have strengths in certain disciplines, you want to be swimming. Your weakness, luckily for me, it is the one that you can negate the losses more than any other.

Well, you can, certainly, if you lose 10 minutes on a swim. 10 minutes on the bike is much easier to gain than 10 minutes on a swim, isn't it?

Hugely. Yeah. I've got my swimming to a decent level, but that next level he's sort of been able to swim with probably a second pack of a pro. Of a pro, which I know is achievable, but it's just having that time to commit to it and, you know, at the minute it's just not feasible. But I will. I just got to be patient.

And are there any books that you really find yourself recommending a lot or any that really helped you? Or if not books, podcasts.

Yeah.

Any particular books or podcasts or resources?

Yeah, there's a lot of podcasts. That's the beauty of this sport. There's so much out there you can. And I study it I study, I drive my wife mad. I'm just constantly studying, researching, looking, you know. And you've got your top for me. A good way of doing things. I always do. And I said to you before about investing in kit and stuff, and I mean, you notice now there's a bit of a trend with these tri bars, isn't there? You know, the extensions. Well, Sebastian Kennele has never had them. Now, if they were the gains that they said they are, mark my words, Sebastian Kanilli would have them. You know, I'm not saying that, you know, they might be a comfort thing, but if they were giving someone 10 watts, like, you'll get told Kenealy. And I don't even think Brownlee has them, or he certainly didn't. They would have them if they were that much of a game. I'm sure Fiorino has them up, but. So I always think, follow the. What are the top guys doing? You know, if the top guys have got it, then you probably find that it's worth looking at. But books, YouTube's your best bet. Podcast. I mean, as Mark lives, the Brick Session and Rob Wilby, cup of. Try some really good interviews with some great athletes. You just pick up stuff as you go. But.

And if you could kind of getting towards the end, if you could give people one piece of advice with regards to this sport, you can only give them one piece of advice, what would that be?

Remember why you do it a lot. Get disillusioned with it and turns into a chore. And it's. Then when that's. That's. I mean, I've done it, I've fallen in that, you know, I got that focused. And before, you know, what am I doing all this for? You've got to bring it all back and think you do it because you enjoy it. You're doing something that people love to be able to do, you know, have the opportunity to do. So enjoy it. And when you do that, you sort of relieve a bit of pressure as well. And just I see some people, like robots, like, going, give us a smile, mate. You know, come on, you're doing this for fun. You're not gonna make money out of it. You know, it's not just enjoy it. You see it a lot. Don't be a slave to it.

Yeah, that's good advice. That is good advice.

How long have you been doing it, Charlie?

Well, only trial triathlons. Only three. Well, this would have been my fourth year if you can sort of say, I'm doing it this year. So and then. And cycling before that. But I mean, you know, the whole thing probably six, seven years. So it's a fairly, fairly recent thing for me. But it, but absolutely the reason I got into it was because of the need to kind of change my approach to life and to get fit and healthy. And so that's always what I keep coming back to is, you know, the, the why. And actually, and I've said many, many times, you know, I don't enter Ironmans and triathlons to expect to be getting on a podium. I enter them so that I've got the motivation to do the training. Training is what I need, you know, that's what's important to me. The event is just the kind of keeping score once in a while.

Yeah.

And so I've absolutely loved it and I found it to be. To be incredible sports, but also I've met some incredible people along the way and I think it's such a friendly bunch of people. And actually this is what Tribathlon was born out of. It was this. You know, this is an amazing world, but it's quite difficult to find your way in. It feels like, you know, there's all of these doors preventing you to getting. And not kind of want of not getting, letting people in. It's just that once you're in the community, it makes complete sense. But getting into the community actually is. I mean, I found out there's a tri club in the town where my, you know, my local town in Oakham, where my business is based, my children go to school as a tri club. I only found out a month or two ago. You know, trying to find them online is really difficult, even when you know they're there. And so it's crazy things like that, you know, where it's born out of. But I think it is a great sport. And finally, what's exciting you, what are you really looking forward to in the future? Just.

Seeing how far I can go with it. Seeing how far I can go and how good I can get myself to and eventually, you know, slow down with it because that's going to hit. So I know I've got a long time left, but actually when I get to that point, think you know what you've done everything you could do to get to the level you got, you achieved this, you achieved that, whatever, but actually retire sort of fulfilled, which I think is what is a problem for a lot of people who do. They just don't have that fulfillment because they. And then they don't enjoy it. And yeah, so, so just, just make sure I know I've given everything I can give within my sort of control and see where it goes. Just like yourself though, Charlie. Just enjoy the journey. It's such a good sport. I mean I've met you today and we could talk all day, couldn't we, about it. And you meet a lot of great people, a lot of like minded people. It's good.

That's exactly right. You know, that's what I love doing these podcasts we've met for the first time and yet you're absolutely right. We could sit here and talk all day about this stuff and bore the people around us senseless, but it's just, just such so much to learn, so much to talk about and so many. There's the verification.

That would be boring.

But no, it's been absolutely brilliant getting to know you. I'm incredibly grateful of you giving up your time and giving us some, some great advice. There's some real gems in there. I wish you all the best with your, with your training and your events going forward and I look forward to following with keen interest. So brilliant. It's been really lovely to chat to you, Brian.

Thanks Charlie. Thank you very much. Pleasure.

I'm sure you'll agree what a genuinely lovely guy and so much there to learn from in terms of how we can get keep our work life balance in, in check with our training, how we can stay injury free, but also how we can really make sure that we enjoy our training and that it doesn't become a chore and we actually enjoy this amazing sport that we're a part of. So I hope you found lots of interesting advice there and something that you could take away and improve about your training.

This podcast is brought to you by.

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