Ep.14 Failures and mistakes are not who you are with CFM Carolyn Emond

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Hey, everybody, this is Madeline from Strasbourg coaching and you are listening to the Money is not your problem podcast. I use what I love most, my LDS faith, the common sense of Dave Ramsey's baby steps, and Brooke Castillo's life coaching tools to help you identify and manage the real issues behind your financial problems.

Hey there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Money it's not your problem podcast. I have another great interview for you today. I have a good friend here and she's also a chief financial mom. Hi, Carolyn, how are you doing?

I'm good. How are you?

Good. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

I am a New York state school counselor and I have come to Utah to extend my certifications and life goals in. I do a program development and then I also am extending my clinical mental health counseling abilities.

What do you like to do? Ski. Yes. That's why she came to Utah, not her family, just because she wants to ski.

I do have family. I do have family here as well. But the main thing was just to have a financial diversity in my life different than what was happening in upstate New York.

Right. So I came to ski.

I came to be with my oldest son, and so now I'm here with Madeline.

Right. And tell me a little bit about your family.

My family, I have three sons and they are all in their 20s now. One is actually going to be getting married and my middle one is a sheriff in a county back in upstate New York. And then my third one is doing a two year degree and finishing up that.

Awesome. And you have your husband that's still New York?

I have, yes. So the boy's dad is back home. And then I also have a cousin that is back home at the moment, and I'm here.

All right, then you guys go back and forth, visit each other.

Yes, we make it work. I usually go home more often, but we have other things going on like a wedding, so he has to come to that. And then I'll go back another time. It'll go back and forth for a while.

Awesome. All right, so we're going to be talking about your financial life, financial development. So I know a lot of people don't like to talk about that, but I know you do, and I love it because you have some great information for us, some great tips, and that's going to be really helpful for all the people listening out there and think that they always have to get their information from an expert. And that's not always the case. There's people around us that have a lot of knowledge, a lot of wisdom to share with us. So we're going to get started on our questions here. All right, so here's our first question for you. Looking back, how did your family look at money growing up?

Well, growing up, it was just. I don't even know if I really had any real understanding of money. We were not really given allowances and we weren't paid for chores, but we did go out and rake lawns or sometimes your mom would. Dad would just give you a little bit of money and then you were able to make a decision. Did you want this or did you want something else, like a piece of candy? And it wasn't something that we needed to have at the moment. Like it wasn't like a one.

Yeah.

It wasn't really a want. And we didn't really think that we needed a whole lot. We had other stuff going. We. And I was from a family of five, so lots of hand me downs, lots of budgeting for trips and. Not really.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Not really.

I just remember being told, well, we don't have the money for that, but you can do this.

But you had the decision to make decisions. Yeah.

And so we were guided that way to make good money management skills.

But you're not actually like, sit down and head up financial literacy.

We never did that. I just watched my parents do it.

And they talked to you guys about money.

Yes. So if we wanted something, then there was always, no, we don't have that in the budget for that. That's something we're going to have to wait for. So there was never instant gratification.

And what was the situation with your parents? Was your dad the sole and your mom was a homemaker?

Okay.

Right. But was there a sense that money was a bad thing or a good thing or it was just a tool? Excellent. But did you ever feel that you were less than when you compared to your peers or it was just never an issue.

No one ever really brought it up. I think that was maybe the time frame, maybe until, of course, you know, you started like, I would start babysitting at age 12. And then I started actually getting my own money and I was a saver.

Good.

Yeah, that was. I wanted to, you know, and my mom was always like, oh, you have $50. You can get that thing that you were thinking about. And I'd be like, I don't know if I want that now. So then I want to save more, you know, and save up. And then we didn't buy anything until you had the cash for it.

Right.

Excellent.

So how did this Affect your thoughts about money. Like growing up, like once you already passed that, the early stages, I think.

It was just, it was more of just a. I think you said, well, it's like a tool. And you, we didn't learn to be emotionally attached to it. You spend it, you feel good about spending it, and then you make it and you feel good about making it. So it's kind of just a relationship. It comes and goes. It's.

There's no the flow. Right, There's a flow.

So, you know, you spend it, feel good about spending it because you can always go out and make more. And remember some of the. I know my mom always said as I got a little bit older, because.

I got a little bit older was.

I think my mom would mention, if you're making so much money, you should put this much away. And even if you don't think you had it, you usually do. So I continued to do that even when I moved out of college and I had my own place and paying rent and bills. If I made $500, then I would put 10 or 15% away and not touch it and so on and so forth. And then at a younger age, even after my dad passed away, he was a, he was very much of a self investor. So in different types of investments, not stock markets, but in other areas. Right.

Was there a specific event or defining experience that helps you in your financial journey?

Being a poor college student.

Did it take out loans to go to school?

Only one. I only had to take out one. I started off at a community college, worked, stayed at home. Then I moved for my 4 year degree away from home, lived in a dorm, and that was the only financial loan I had to take out. Because college was paid for through financial aid and scholarships. Yes, and some scholarships. And then all I had to do was take out money for my first year of living and in the dorms.

All right.

So then I was. Then I thought, jeez, this could be a better way of like having to take out another loan. So after my first loan that I took out for living expenses, I realized that that was kind of a waste of money. So I ended up applying to be an RA resident advisor. And so you ran the. I run the hall.

Okay.

So I had boys on one side and girls on the other, and I was in the middle.

And that way you don't have to pay for that. Is that what it is?

So it was a free room and I would get free board because I worked at the cafeteria. So two years at a larger university, I only had to pay for one. I only had one loan at that point and I just paid it off within five years afterwards, which was worth it. And I guess I was looking at it in terms of what my income would be. How much of a loan should I be taking out? And I think that's where I started thinking about those things and how much you were going to make.

Was spirituality any part of your financial development? I'm not religion or anything, but interaction with God or divinity.

I don't believe I made those connections back then. I do believe that as I became. Was older, maybe after college and kind of becoming a real adult and realizing that where a door closes, another door will open. So not being tied to something. I mean, God would always provide the opportunities and I just had to learn to take advantage of them.

Right. So reflecting back. Yeah.

So that it wasn't so anxious about not having money. I would find ways to do things if I. Then I went. Would just make choices. I don't think it was giving off. I guess it's just about making choices. Yeah.

I think sometimes when we have that inspiration that we can see that our natural ability and our skills to see those opportunities are developing us.

Yes.

Right. If we don't think, oh, it's just a coincidence that happened, you like, you have that potential and it's developing in you.

I think it's developing. Everything happens for a reason. And then you have to be able to critically think about how you're going to do it another way. So if a job wasn't there that you were expecting and you had to go out and do something, you know, figure out what your skills were to go and do something else. And never be too proud to take any job. Just go do jobs.

Right. And I love this. So we're talking about that yesterday offline conversation that you have that there's no job security, that your job security is yourself and knowing your skills that you can go and look for other opportunities. And it seems that you always have that in mind. Right? Correct.

Because I could put my skills and learn just about anything and be willing to learn just about anything to do a job. Right.

And you were talking about how you. You didn't say that, but it's your mindset that you could go out and I'm not going to go without. I can find another job. It's like this end of the world that something happened. You cannot lose this thing or this job, but you can always go and find.

I don't want to compromise my values for a job. I want My values and my convictions to look at it as a strength. So I think that comes from being self secure. I'm confident enough that if all of a sudden you're going to downgrade or downplay me, then I'll find someplace else that will lift me up.

Right, right. They will see your value, they'll see your contribution.

They'll see my value, they'll see my contributions, contribution. So whether this job doesn't pan out on their part or my part, I will always be self sufficient and go find something else.

That's excellent. That's such a great mindset because then you're not boxed in and you don't feel a victim of the circumstances. You're like, no, I'll make my circumstance.

I'll go after whatever I want or what I need and there's no blame. I'm not blaming them for not wanting my values or my. I will find somebody else who will and then that'll be fine. Not saying it's right or wrong, it's just, it just is. It just needs to, you know, you just need to cut the cord and go someplace else and do something different and that's okay.

Right. I love this because especially nowadays it seems that there's always a blame that maybe to validate themselves, people just put the blame on something else. So it's not their fault. They're not less than, they're not this like it's having that possibility mindset is so incredible. Are there one person or more than one person that really helped you during your financial revolution? You talked about your parents.

I think my dad was pretty much. I mean, I think my mom was the one who engaged my dad's ability to manage money. So she always referred back to him. He was good at planning, he was good at putting, not investing. And I say that not investing in stock market, investing in secure, maybe mutual funds or annuities or something that you know, was not going to depreciate, not going to lose, not going to be high risk real estate.

Did he have.

No, we don't, no.

But we had a house.

Our own house. Yeah. And cars and things like that. But not like property, just our properties and being able to just see where the money would be the most secure and still grow.

Right, right.

So I think I learned that a lot from my mom because she was the one who said your dad, your father always did such and such and he always did such and such. And then it kind of started to click and I'm like, oh, and that's not something you learn, you're not ready to hear it in your 20s, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, oh, I get it now. So now this is where I see play. So that's kind of cool, right?

And it's interesting because you observe that growing up. So it wasn't like something earth shattering, but it clicked.

It all clicked from early on, from some of the things that I do, maybe. And then as I got older, then they started to click, now more substantial, I guess.

So do you still carry some of that, what you learned then, now?

Yes, absolutely. So now I do the same things. I stay away from banks, stay away from the stock market, and I rely on myself, put my money away in mutual funds or life insurance and things like that.

So you develop your own system based on modeling that your parents left out for you. And so let's look at. Was there anything negative from your past that you had to reconcile in terms of your financial situation?

Yes. In my 20s, I was a big spender. I'd get my paycheck and I would go spend it. I'd get my paycheck and I'd go spend it. Did I have a good time? Absolutely. But there was never anything left to show for any of the hard work.

Right. And how did you make the. You had to make peace for that or you just moved on?

I think it was accepting my responsibility. So credit card debt, that was the easiest part. All of a sudden I got my first credit card and I wanted it, I could go get it, but then not realizing that I have the amount of money to pay it off at the end of the month. So I think that's where I got into it. But then I just hit the bullet and said, yep, I'm going to pay that thing off. And I would just transfer things to zero interest and transfer them back to finally pay it all down. Now my credit cards are. I buy something, I. I pay it off and I buy it and I pay it off. I've been doing that since my 30s.

Okay. So it looks like it was never a hung up and you're never stuck in the past and blaming yourself because a lot of people make their mistakes with finances and it's normal.

Absolutely right.

But sometimes it's hard to move on and to just take the lesson instead of just beating ourselves up for thinking that I have no hope. Right.

I am this person. Well, it's learning and taking the responsibility for those and being able to be, okay, I'm moving on, I'm learning something new. So that I don't end up in that position because I don't want to be there again. It's not a good feeling, and it kind of depletes your energy a little bit.

Right. Many of my clients say that I'm not good with money. And it's because they keep defending themselves from their past mistakes. Right. And then the more you think that, the more the brain looks for evidence of the things that you're doing wrong in this case. But if you just accept the past and let you go from there instead of defining yourself from the past, I think that's a good practice for you to become good with money.

Yes.

That's what they want to do. And I see this in you. I see that there's none of this holding back. Keep them stuck in the past. That's really great.

Always move forward.

So now let's transition to you as a mom. So how do you teach? How did you teach your kids about money? And, well, how did that happen?

I think it was the same process to that I grew up. I remember having my sons and their friends going, you manage money well, you make choices. And I can remember going back to here. I was a single mom with my three sons, and I said, you know, we're going to go to Germany and visit our exchange students. And people were like, well, how are you going to afford that? Well, we made choices. And I would say to the boys, do you want to go to Germany and see our exchange students? Or do you want to have a huge Christmas? Or do you want to have this? And they'd be like, we don't eat Christmas. We want to go to Germany. So they knew that I was good for my work, so that that money was then put away and everybody saved to go to Germany. And the same thing with skiing. We all like to ski, and it's an expensive hobby. And they were like, how are you affording ski? Well, we don't do certain things. We do cheaper things in the summer, in the fall, like hiking or doing something that doesn't cost a lot of money. And then I take that money, and this is the chunk of money for our ski season. So we might ski every day or every weekend, or we might take a trip out west, like we started to do. And people are like, well, how? How did you do that? And, like, $38,000 a year and own a home and all this and all the cars. I'm like, it's choices. It's all about choices. And where are you thinking, is it worth it to do this now? Or should I wait on this and put my money aside so we can go to Utah to speak or something?

Were there differences between your, the, the boy's dad and you in terms of money? And so they would have two methods that.

I think I heard a lot about diligence from their dad. So if there's something really good, I can say he was good with money and maybe on a stingy side as opposed to what it was still good money management. So it wasn't any mixed messages. It was just you have to be able to have a relationship. That was the one who said you had to have a relationship with your money. And then, and he was kind of more like you have to save.

Can't.

Like I can't just give it away. So then it was no fun.

Right.

Because if you're too pulled back, then you're having any fun with the money that you're, you're making either. So you want to have a little bit of both and you want to have a balance. So I don't think they really got any mixed messages. The older two are really good. It's my younger son who is more instantaneous. He's the spender and it's hard to get him out of that habit.

So how do you reconcile? If you give them advice like him, you're telling him, hey, you got to save a little bit. How do you reconcile when they don't, they don't follow your advice?

Well, that's their choices. I mean, at this point I don't really have any control over it sometimes, so I don't really burden myself with that. And when he does come to me, because I know he is, because I know he's a full time student, I'm willing to help him out with the financial cost of his education because he's not, we're not taking out loans and he did not want to go into debt for school and I didn't.

I was right there behind him.

So if you have some money from myself and you ask your dad and he gets you some, it's, and you have skin in the game for your education, then that's all. We'll all get through it. So now we're on the tail end of it and it's, there's no burden, there's no debt burden.

Right. He's going to graduate, he's going to go out and do his job, get his money and there's nothing to pay back. Yeah, you actually see the fruits of your, your labor.

That's it. And it's not going back to school alone.

You know, it's interesting because a lot of my clients, they're moms, they make it mean they're bad parents if the kids don't follow through advice like you give them the direction and you show them the way and they don't want to follow and they beat themselves up saying because I fail here, I fail there. And I don't see that on you. I think this is such a great mindset to have and for your kids to watch it too, that there's no, it's not my fault that they didn't do well or that they made that mistake. It's their mistake. It's not because it has nothing to do with me.

Exactly.

So good. So how, how do you continue to grow in your financial understanding now?

What do you do? My continued financial mindset is to be completely self sufficient. So my money is, like I said, it's in, it's in financial structures that are run by mutual, you know, which is something that I always say, if you're ever familiar with the movie, It's a Wonderful Life. So you have Potterville, who's the government bank. And you have the other guy, I can't think of his name. But anyway, so he's the good guy and he has the building alone and it's a mutual bank. It's where everybody is funding each other and, and then there's secure investments and annuities and things like that, bringing back money into that structure. And so you're relying on a group of people as opposed to relying on something that, like a government that isn't stable.

Yeah, you don't never know what's going on.

You never know what's going to happen. And I don't want to live that way. So I will continuously put my money into success, your mutual investments and rely on myself.

Right. I think that's a great investment. When you invest in yourself and you keep growing and you, you're true to your values and you stay within those things that you're comfortable with. It doesn't mean that applies to everybody. Everybody should do like us or like you or like me. But whatever works for us that's aligned with our values and with your learning experience as well. All the things that you've learned for far. And so do you read it about money from everybody? Do you follow anybody in specific?

You know, you can, you can read, you can read up on a lot of, a lot of different people. One of my biggest influences, especially later on in my 40s, was Nelson Nash. And that's, that's the structure is becoming your own bank as opposed to being in a government thing. And he's. And then he has a lot of offshoots people to read up on. Some people that kind of agree with him might disagree on a couple concepts. So you just kind of take a little bit of from everywhere and, and then just keep going from there.

Right. I guess you see where you at that moment and you're like, okay, this is my basic. And then you can learn from different things and analyze and decide if that goes with you or not. Right?

Yeah.

Great. So think about your most, your hardest time in your life financially and think about the lady that's out there, that girl that's out there going through that right now.

What would you.

Maybe it's being the three kids at home by yourself. Being a single mom at that time or maybe at college when you had to take that student loan and to pay for your living expenses. What would you say to that? Explain a little bit about that part, the hardest part. And then what would you say to that person?

I think you always have to look forward. Like things will. If you look for things, you'll find things to make your easier. If you have a positive mindset. If you're constantly thinking that things are happening to you, then things will always happen to you. Whereas if you take what happens and move through them and overcome all those things, then you're the doer.

Right.

You are not waiting for somebody else to come and save you. You have to do it yourself.

Yeah. You can prosper at any time.

You might have ups and downs. I think if I go back and really look at everything, they were good. And then there was downs and the results and then there was downs. And I think that that's a pretty typical thing for your teens, your 20s and even into your thir. And when I talk with people who are in their 30s now and they might be a mom and they might be going through some difficult things when they're relationships and they've got kids and so on. And then like being self sufficient is your number one priority. Should be your number one priority. Your kids are second. But your. You being self sufficient is going to benefit them. Because if you don't take care of yourself and you don't plan for the future, plan for the future. Everybody falls. So you have to take care of yourself.

Yeah. You can see so many relationships that end up breaking up because parents decide that their kids are their retirement plan. And they never decide that. Oh, when I'm Old, they're gonna take care of me. And that's a recipe for disaster.

Recipe for disaster. So I will say for, for my future, if there's anything left over, sure, I'm going to pass it down, but that's not the plan. I think I wanted my sons to be in a place where they could be self sufficient as well.

I think that's great. And not going back, but going back a little bit. You see that their mentality help them to see that. No, I'm capable of doing these things. I'm capable to plan for the future and not expecting you to grow. And then like when I have to take care of my mom and it's this burden, right. And the person is like, I'm not thinking about that. I A lot of times too, some parents, some mothers feel that everybody's going to college. They don't know their situation, but they all see the kids just going to college. And college is not a ripe. College is an opportunity if you're able to provide and you can. And I don't see from you that you, your kids had expectations that you're going to pay for their call or something like that. You had to have him to have skin in the game. Right. To have them.

Right. So my youngest had to have skin in the game and my middle one had to follow through and my oldest one didn't want to go to college. And they were like, you don't have to go to college. You have to have a plan though.

Yeah.

Live with me forever. I love you. Just I don't want to live with you forever.

But they have to learn other things.

So. And through hard work, that's where you move forward and that's constantly learning, constantly taking in information and being able to process it and use it. And don't just take one person's advice, advice. Never throw all your eggs in one basket, even with investing or invest from other people.

Exactly.

Just go and read as much as you can on the same topics and gather your own information. Sure. You can come up with somebody and they say, hey, this is a great book, you should read it.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Okay.

So you start reading it. It's like, no, no, it doesn't apply to me. But there is this interesting piece and then there's another book that might be better. So it's always, it's just gathering information and figuring out what piece works best for you.

Right. And it's about the decision.

Everything is a choice. So you know you have, you will always have enough money if you're out there. Working and, and gaining skills and creating opportunities for yourself because they're there. People say there aren't opportunities. Nope. There's opportunities everywhere. And you just have to be willing to take that opportunity. You might not like working in a fast food restaurant. Restaurant, but if it's the only thing open right at the moment, there's no harm in going to that fast food restaurant and doing work or waitressing or whatever it happens to be. Just go do the job.

You will learn something.

You will learn something from it and continuously look for something better.

Right? Right.

So even when you have a secure job, when you think you have a secure job, you should always be looking at other opportunities. So there's another piece of advice that I always have. And that's why I guess I don't ever think if I'm not right for this job and I get let go or I have to leave the job because of whatever different values or whatever, I know that there's other opportunities. And I've already looked because I always look. It's a constant. It's a constant look. You constantly are in there, oh, this job or this job or this job. And just to see what's out there.

Yeah. And I think it's important because you set yourself up, your past self set yourself up for now. You have that safety net. You have your emergency plan. You have your things that you don't have debt. So if this comes to the end and you have to leave your job or they shut down and you have to go find something else, you have a little bit of margin to be able to live without desperate. Because you interview differently if you're desperate. You do.

Oh, definitely. Because you don't want to.

Yes.

You never want to be desperate in relationships or in financial opportunities. You want to be confident and you want to, you want to come across being, I still don't need this job because I might have this opportunity. Because there are going to be jobs out there that you're like, I don't want that job, but I have this opportunity. So you kind of think that right. Pay and you go and you continue to look. And if you have that little bit of cushion, I guess then you can have a little bit of leeway to start the job that is a better fit for you.

Right.

Yeah.

You don't want to just take something because you're so desperate that you cannot make your bill. So we'll be talking in my podcast before is using an opportunity or a financial setback moment to prosper. And the prosper not necessarily in the financial mean, but like setting yourself up for success. So use this time right now to. Okay, now I'm going to consider. Reserve my expenses, cut down whatever, and then build that savings and prepare for another job. Use those difficult times to.

To set yourself up for the future and be more positive about some of it. So instead of saying you can't do something, I can't do that because I don't have the money to do it, say I can't. I'm not able to do it right now. This is not the right time for me to do that. So I'm not going to be able to spend them. I don't want to spend the money at that rate now. So it's not a good time for me. But in the future, maybe it will be.

So, yeah, that rephrasing is really phrasing.

And just a different mindset a little bit. It's not something I can do right now.

And. But it's right now.

It's not like never. I'm never going to.

It's just a moment.

It's just a moment right now. And you're in this moment where you have to put some things on hold in order to make your house, you know, have your house payment or food. And then everything else has to go on hold because you got to have those two things and then gas in the car.

Right. That's the four walls we talk about, right? Yes. Is the house. The house arrangement like rent of payment, shelter, shelter, food, clothing, transportation. Those are the four walls.

Those are the four walls, yeah.

Picking the bills first when it's a time of crisis, and then set yourself up for the future because then you reduce the amount of crisis.

You're always going to have a crisis, always going to have something difficult because.

That'S how we grow. Opportunities make us grow. But if you're so desperate, that freezes you. You're not able to make those choices. It. It's not good either. Thank you so much. This has been so great. I have a few I could find questions for you. All right. And because I didn't give you a whole lot of time to prepare, so I want to. Whatever comes up, comes up. What was the worst financial decision you ever made?

I can't even think of what my worst financial decision would have been.

Think of that one.

Spending money on something that I really didn't need. Like, I don't even know how to put it. Like somebody who might have bought a timeshare similar to that. Like, it sounded good at the time. So you're like, oh, I'll just save in the long run. And then just bought it.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: But.

So I did something similar to that. But it was what it was. I paid it off and it's all done anyway.

So. Yeah.

So now making emotional decisions.

Right. Because we don't do. We don't make good decisions either happy or sad.

Happy or sad. When something sounds like it's. It's so good, it's probably not true.

Right. So. Well, that goes right along with the second one. Was the most useless thing that you ever bought together. But. Yeah.

Well, probably would be the. Probably that vacation thing.

Timeshare.

Timeshare club thing. Yes. Probably the worst thing. So.

All right. And what was something that you bought that turned out to be better than you expected? You know, like, you pay something really not a whole lot of money, and then you use that thing all the time.

It's probably my air fryer.

There you go. You didn't even know that was good. And use it all the time now.

Now I use it all the time. So there you go. So, yeah, I think I had a lot of those. I just can't, you know, I go back to just pull them out. I just. There's so many of them. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm glad I bought that pair of shoes. They're the best and they're lasting and they're comfortable. Things like that, I guess. So you make. You make decisions and they make you happy because you have to make yourself happy.

Yeah.

And sometimes when you buy something and you're like, I didn't buy that. Oh, now I know I bought it. They're pretty comfortable.

Yeah. There you go. Awesome. Thank you so much, Carolyn. Is there anything else that came up while we're finishing? Any last words of wisdom or anything?

Just don't. Don't fake fives flaking to the emotional. Take the emotion out of them. It's just a physical entity and it kind of comes and goes.

So the flows. Right. You can make more and yeah. Always have a little flow on the side that you save and.

And be rational about your decisions. Just think about, like we just said, don't be emotional about your financial decisions and money. Just let it come and go and it will flow when you lose. When you take that out of it, you find out that you have more blessings and more opportunities.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Carolyn. It's been a pleasure. And I'll see you guys next week for another episode. Obrigada.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. Remember, to subscribe, rate and review. And if you're ready to invest in yourself, check out my website, StrasbergCoaching.com to schedule a consultation. Or try my membership group for free. I'll be back next week for another profitable episode of the Money Snyer Problem podcast, Atebre vio Brigada.