Ep.21 An Open Coversation about Money with Youth and Young Adults' Life Coach Mara Sundwall

Foreign.

Hi there, Foodiosas. Welcome to the money's not your problem podcast where every week we talk about how you can become good with money in your pocket and in your mind by using practical life coaching tools and simple and efficient ways to do money math. Are you ready to invest in yourself? Let's dive into this episode.

Hey there, Foodiosis. Welcome to this week's episode of the money slide your problem podcast. Today I have an interview for you, very special interview. And my guest is Mara Sandwell and I'm going to let her introduce herself to you. Hi, Mara, how are you doing?

Hi, Madeline. I am doing really well, thank you.

Excellent. Just tell us a little bit about yourself and to everybody that does not know you.

I assume many people don't know me. Yeah, I am a life coach. I coach primarily teens and young adults as well as our parents. I work a lot with our parents as well because it's a great way to help families, you know, kind of learn and grow together. And so I do that. I grew up all over the world as in a large family. My parents are converts to the church and decided they were kind of on this path where they decided to not have children. Then they joined the church and had eight children in 11 years. Yes, yes. They were all in. And so we moved all over the world. My dad was in oil, military and then oil. And so I kind of grew up everywhere. And, you know, it was what I loved so much about it was the exposure, right. To different cultures, different people. And especially through my developing years, it really helped me develop a lot of compassion for people just around the world. There are so many amazing ways to live a human life. And so, yeah, came back to the States, served a mission in South Korea, married. Was married for about 24 years and divorced. I have four amazing kids. And yeah, moved to Salt Lake from Seattle. Was up in seattle for about 20 plus years and moved down here in 2020 and here I am.

Excellent. So we almost got here at the same time. From the second time I lived here in Salt Lake area, I moved here with our family after my husband retired. We came in 2021.

2021. Okay, I beat you.

And how we met was because of the work that you do with my daughters, which is really great. And we do come as a family too, to do that. That, you know, my husband plays around, actually jokes around. Actually my. My brother jokes around. That's the Simpson episode where they go for family therapy and they have the batons and they are covered with like a phone thing and they talking to each other and one of them takes it off the phone and say, hey, it works better without the foam.

Right? That's right.

To prevent, you know, provoke the pain and all that. So that's not how Mara's session goes. No therapy. And we don't do that.

We do not. We do not do that. No, we do not. So it's pretty casual and it's been so great working with your family, I must say, like, you're just for amazing people. So thank you.

It's great because my oldest one, Annika has done life coaching before and actually that's how I start learning about life coaching. And I had her when she was about going to say 14 or 15, that's when she did her six months program and Michelle Sifinet and she is here from the Salt Lake area and it was a great introduction for her life coaching. But I don't think she was ready to, to get the, the benefits. Now she's a little more mature and she, you know, she knew that she could go back. She talked to you for her sister. She's like, hey, I would like to go back because that was really good.

Yeah, your girls are fantastic. I really, it's been a great experience. Enjoy.

So let's dive in, into what we're going to be talking about, which is money. And I know a lot of people don't like to talk about money. Why do you think people don't like to talk about it?

I think people don't like to talk about money because I think our mindsets about money differ so greatly. And I think, you know, we live in a culture, but also just the way the human brain is formed, that we, we are prone to comparison. Right. And so if you have somebody who's very up top tight about money having a conversation with somebody who's very casual about money, they're not speaking the same language, they're talking about the same thing, but they're coming at it from two totally different perspectives. And really their histories vary so greatly. Right. And so I think we're uncomfortable because it is a necessity. We all have to have it to, you know, to survive. Yeah, yeah.

To live.

And I think so. Yeah. So I think people just are very uncomfortable. I think we're all afraid that we're doing it wrong. Right.

Yeah. And some people attach their value to how much money they make or they don't.

Absolutely. And that's just a construct of, I mean, our culture for sure. But you know, it's a worldwide problem. One of the things about living in Africa as a kid was that money had a very different everyone they needed it, but it wasn't the foundation of their self image. They were very, the people that lived in Zambia were very carefree, very happy even without owning much and without having very little money. And that was very confusing for me because my father's a wonderful man, but was raised by a father who was part of a family that were coal miners in Pennsylvania. Very little money, very, very poor. And so my dad was raised to hold on to every penny. Right. Like money was scarcity mindset was, was a big, it was a big problem in his family. And he, my dad was a wonderful man. But. But there was a lot of scarcity. We had plenty of money, but there was still a lot of scarcity around what we didn't have. Right, right.

So that's a good segue. So looking back when you were growing up, how did your family look at money and how did they pass that information to you, this car scarcity mindset?

Yeah. You know, the information that was passed to me, the way we, the way our family looked at money was just that there was never enough. Now granted we had eight children in our family, but my, my parents did a wonderful job of raising us, but I grew up with a fear of money. I just feared that there would always not be enough. And there were times when we were rather wealthy by comparison. And then other times, you know, my dad lost a job when I went off to college and didn't. It took him about a year to find something. And there was such stress and about not being able to provide and he's such a wonderful provider, but I don't think he ever gave himself enough credit. And that bled down through the family as fear around money. Right?

Yeah. It's not that on purpose. They pass that information. My father in law grew up in Oklahoma and they were very poor, dirt poor like they used to say some of the huts and all that. And then he went on the military and that. He went to California and worked for a bank and started making money. But he was to have that, that money was afraid of losing it, afraid of not having it. And he was the one that, you know, would hide money all over the house and did not trust the stock market or anything like that. He still doesn't trust. Yeah, that. And it's not that he passed it on no purpose. It's just like how he learned to live his life to protect himself.

Absolutely. And I think that's, that's the mindset I think of of a lot of people. Right. Where no matter how much you have or don't have, it's just not going to be enough. Because that's the way we're conditioned to think within the family systems. And I do think it's important, you know, as we're learning about our own approach and, and kind of personal theories around money, to look at our histories and not, not with a critical eye, but with like a curious one. Right. Looking at my dad's, for example, my dad's extended family and, and the poverty that was experienced. My grandfather worked for IBM. I didn't know till I was an adult that he was a blue collar worker. I always just thought he was a white collar because he carried himself with. He was so proud of himself for having a factory job. What I had interpreted it as a desk job. I thought he was, you know, a white collar. But he was so proud of himself for getting himself out of the mines. But it didn't translate to monetarily. He didn't see himself as ever having enough. Right. So that, and then that transferred to my dad and then down to me and my siblings. Yeah.

And you guess we, guess we hear the conversations when we're little. We hear those conversations.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Was there anything that comes to mind about anyone of those conversations or something that you distinctly remember about that in your life?

Yeah, it's such a, it's such a good question. I think it was mostly, you know, so much of it is inferred and implied just even with our body language when we're talking about money or how often we talk about money. But I just remember my dad's a, he's a very intelligent man and he not a fearful guy. Like, he had a really good education and he, he held high positions in companies. But when he talked about money, his body language changed. And I remember even as a small child watching him being like, wow, money must be such a big deal. Like that's. He's so stressed, you know, and he's the provider and protector of our family. I was like, if he's stressed about money, then I should be stressed about money. Right.

Yeah, that's something, something there, there's something there that I'm not seeing.

Yeah.

About this money thing. So, so then when you're growing up, how did this affect your development?

Yeah, such a good question. Right. Like I, I knew I needed to learn to work hard. And so Even like at 10, 11, 12, I was really a responsible kid. I was very responsible for younger siblings in the family. So I started Babysitting, like a lot, a lot more than maybe a 10 or 11 or 12 year old girl did in those days. But I, I made good money. I remember a couple of families that kind of contracted. In fact, one of them drew up a contract with me, like Friday nights was theirs and, and they were so generous with me, they paid me well. But what I didn't learn to do was to manage my money well. I felt like, I think because there was so much fear around it for me, if I got it, I wanted to buy something right away because I felt like it was going to disappear. Like I just had this fear that it was going to go away, so I better use it. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

And so my dad, my parents tried to do a good job of teaching us about savings and stuff, but that didn't really sit well. I didn't understand the purpose of it.

So you would. Yeah, I guess that mindset of if you don't use it, you lose it.

Yeah. Truly that's, that's what I felt like. Like I had to spend it in order to gain something from it before it went away. I don't know where I thought it would go.

Yes, well, because they did the best that they could, but they didn't like, oh, let's sit down, let's do a budget or watch it how we do it or things like that.

Yeah, absolutely. And again, I think because of that fear, anytime we're, we're in fear about something, we don't always. It's not our words that are heard. Right. Especially by children who are very in tune with parents. They, they learn more about what's going on, like what's really going on in the nervous system and the body language. And that stress. I just absorbed a lot of that stress as a kid.

Yeah. I heard something this afternoon that said when you're high emotions, low intelligence.

So true. Well, listen, it makes sense. In the work I do with teenagers and families, we talk a lot about the brain and it makes sense when, you know, when the lower brain is triggered, blood flow to our cerebral cortex is limited. Right. Like we are really only operating not only there's a small amount of the cerebral cortex, but we are, yes, we are mainly, primarily operating from our more primitive brain and especially the limbic system. You know, when it's triggered any memories, even, even very subtle memories, when those are pulled out, we feel the emotions that are, correlate that correlate to those memories. And yeah, we don't, we're not thinking super well when we are highly emotional.

And that makes a little difficult because then you have to, you end up taking decision making decisions at that point when your brain is not at your, like with your best interest in mind is just trying to protect you.

Yeah. And you bring up such a good point because then we make these decisions and then when we're, you know, we're a little more regulated, we're like, what was I thinking? Right. And then we make that mean something about us. It really affects our ability to, to accept ourselves. And then it kind of becomes almost a cycle. It can, right?

Yeah. You kind of trust yourself and, and you're always on guard thinking it's going to happen again and you don't want it to happen again. And it creates that, that confidence, the self confidence kind of deteriorates, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

So was there a specific event that you remember from your youth other than, I guess the babysitting was an event. But was there anything else that comes to mind when you think about money?

Yeah.

You know, influence you.

This just came to my mind. I haven't thought about it in a very long time. But I remember in college we were living at one of my friend's parents house near the college I went to and I had gone out, I gone to the store. I don't. I think I was just bored. Anyway, I bought this perfume, this kind of expensive perfume and it came with like two or three little gifts and I went home to show my roommate and she was like, Mara, that is such a waste of money. Like, why would you blow your money on that? And I just remember feeling intense shame. Like she's right. Like I'm so dumb. Like why would I just go? Like I'm in college, I have, you know, very restricted budget. Why would I go buy expensive perfume? What's wrong with me? Right. And I just remember it really compounded, you know, this growing belief that I just didn't know how to manage money and there was something wrong with me.

That's, that's horrible. So I guess, right. It's, it's such a, you know, we never know how we're going to react to certain things. Like sometimes people say something to us that it just triggers that and that, that seems to be trigger, you know, triggers that, that shame.

For sure. For sure.

So, so from there, I guess we can go from that one. So were there things from your past related to money that you had to make peace with? And how did you do that?

Yeah, I mean, again, I think so much of it was this underlying stress around money When I was 8 years old, my family moved a lot. And so we. We listened to a lot of abba, the music group abba, they were just our family's band. And I remember my dad asking me just casually one day, like, what is your favorite ABBA song? And I really loved the beat to the song. It's called Money, Money, Money. And I was eight. I wasn't listening to the lyrics. I just liked the sound of it. And my dad, he sits me down and he's like, mara, money is not that important. This song, like, what does this mean about you? And I was like, oh, I don't know. What does it mean? I was eight. Like, I just, I wasn't listening to the lyrics. But it was a trigger for him because he's like, my. My daughter's becoming worldly, right? Which sent this message that, like, something was wrong with the way I was viewing this money. I mean, he didn't intend anything by it. It wasn't malicious, but that's the way I interpr it. And so I've had to come to kind of terms with the fact that, like, I'm not bad with money. I, you know, own my own home, I have a business. But it took me a lot of years to get to a place where there wasn't in some ways, like, anxiety around spending a sizable amount of money or even making money felt really weird for me because I think, you know, when you question your worth, you question also the worth you have in gaining things or in being successful. Does that make sense?

Yes. Was there anything with money that your spirituality play a part in it?

Yes. I remember once I had accumulated a little debt in college, and I was. I was like 18 or 19 at the time. And I just overspent on some things that I shouldn't probably have bought. And I remember thinking, like, I'm going to test God. I'm going to see if God will, like, alleviate this debt. Like some miracle will happen and I won't have to pay this off, right? And I prayed really hard. And I remember waking up one morning thinking, like, I'm going to get my answer today. This is going to go away. And I had this distinct feeling, like, Mara, like, you're asking for the wrong things. Like this is that. First of all, it was like maybe $800. It wasn't even that much money. But I just remember thinking like, this is not how God operates. And strangely, it was a really big testimony builder for me because, you know, we want God to fix our problems, right? Especially when we're young, but it was almost like me checking in with myself and being like, you know, you're asking for the wrong thing, asking for moderation, asking for, you know, for self forgiveness. Because I really beat myself up over accumulating this small amount of debt. And I think it was a testimony builder for me because I realized, like, I needed to be responsible and accountable for the choices that I made. God was not just going to wipe the slate anytime I, you know, overspent or that I didn't, you know, did something that I didn't like or. And I don't know, for me, it was kind of a healing spot in my relationship with myself, which always opens us up more to feeling the spirit. Right. When we're in alignment with ourselves, we're much more able, much more open to hearing and feeling the spirit as well. So it was a good experience.

And I guess that's your answer.

Yeah.

You got an answer. I didn't get the answer that you exactly wanted. But it's not like he doesn't give us what we want. He gives us what we need.

Yeah.

And that healing was much more important for you to move on with your life. Yeah.

And the interesting thing was I got a second job and paid it off. And the resilience, the resiliency I built in doing that, I was like, oh, I can kind of do hard things and I can also manage money. Right. Like, I helped me to actually develop the thing I wanted God to just give me.

Yes. Which was a much more important skill for the rest of your life than just getting that. Yeah. I guess we were at church on Sunday and people that were talking about something else completely, but it was like, look at those examples that they use in general conference. All those beautiful examples. They never happen. It's just a general conference. I don't see that happening everywhere. And then when we start talking and they don't want to use those examples like the, you know, the envelope of tithing that arrived in the house with the perfect amount and those things, everybody starts sharing some kind of example like that, that it might not have been from the conference talk, but those are the examples that people use.

Yeah. And, you know, I think you bring up a good point because I think if we're really looking for those examples, we're not myopically focused on just getting the one answer. Right. Or. Or in the one way. I think it is. I think all of us, if we spent some time really reflecting, we would all see those small miracles which really amount to big miracles because they Change the trajectory of our lives, whether it's financial or otherwise.

Yeah, we'll call them the hinge moments. Right?

Right. Yes.

Little turns. It doesn't, they don't have to be big hinges. They just little things that keep moving us along.

Yes. I think Elder Uchtdorf gave a talk years ago, but he talked about how like when a plane is on autopilot, it's not flying in a direct line, it's making constant small corrections like every second.

Degrees.

Yes. And I think, you know, when, when we're open to the spirit, I think that's really how we live our life. We're, we're constantly just course correcting and, and God's okay with that, Right. He doesn't expect us to be on this perfectly straight trajectory. He's okay with this course correcting whether it's financially, spiritually, emotionally, even in our relationships.

Yeah, that's how we grow little by little, Right?

Yeah, absolutely.

Are there a person or many people that helped you during your financial revolution?

You know. Yes, through example. Right. Like there are people in my life like my former mother in law who passed away recently. She was a very, very dear friend. We've been very close for years and she was always a really good example to me of being very generous but also disciplined. Right. She wasn't one to just throw money like here's some for you and some for you. She was very generous and intentional in her giving, but also discipline lend in her savings. And there have been several people in my life where I've admired the way that they've handled money. My, one of my very best friends, you know, they do fine financially, but they, they're, they're just much more of a giving mindset knowing that they'll have what they need. Does that make sense? They're not penny pinching them and you can have a little, but the rest we need to keep for ourselves. They're just very generous in the way they show up in the lives of the people that they love.

Yeah. I think that's one of the concepts that I learned from Judy Moore that are our weaknesses are strengths over youth.

Yes, I like that.

And one of the things was being generous. Right. So when you're just being generous, just giving money away without checking in with your family and see if you have the things that you need for your family, just, you know, you're overusing that generous heart in a matter that's not being a blessing. So it's always good to check in. And I like that example of your mother in Law being disciplined, but also gender, making sure that you have that balance.

Yes, there has to be a balance. And you know, I think especially like using for an example, like the service industry, right. Like, I used to be really kind of nitpicky about tipping. Like if I felt like they really deserved a 20% tip, then I would tip them. And for some reason during COVID I think it was just gratitude. I was so grateful there were people still willing to go out there and do, do the work. And we were in Moab one year for a family reunion and the restaurant was very restricted. They, they were short on servers and so it was very slow. And you know, service was good, but we didn't see much of our waitress. And I just, I felt like being excessively generous to her because she was just working so hard. And I remember I gave her a really good tip and it felt so good. Like I was like, she didn't, she, I wasn't watching her to make sure she was earning it. I was just like, wow, I really appreciate that you're even here, here's a, here's a good tip. So I've started tipping much more generously and I enjoy my eating out experiences so much more.

It is so much better because, you know, that she could, especially knowing that she could have been home and receiving some money from home, you know, just like the handouts, but she was willing to be at work and she was working hard. And even if she wasn't the super attentive service on your table, you knew the, the type of person that she was.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Because she was out there. And you know, I think this is something I read recently. There was a study done at one of the Ivy League schools, but like, how to ensure that your, your kids will grow up to be industrious and provide well for themselves. And the number one factor was allowing your children to do chores, to contribute at home to work. Right. Which I think is a beautiful thing. And my parents nailed it. Like we had chores. We were expected to help in all the ways, you know, in the kitchen, in the yard, all the places. And I'm so grateful now for that. I wasn't always so much, you know, as a kid and a teen, but they were so consistent. Even when we lived in Africa, we had, in order to live in Zambia at the time, you had to hire help to come in. So, you know, you're can, you're contributing financially to the community. And so we had a cook and we had a maid and a nanny and my mom was like, oh no, they're not doing all the work. So we did dishes, we helped cook, we cleaned. Even though we had people to do that, they still, my parents were still adamant that we pitch and help. And I'm so grateful that they taught us that work ethic because I think part of the way we view money is viewing the importance of our role in acquiring it. Right. Handouts are a very different thing than working hard for what you get.

And you know, I love this because for many years this has been in my mind that you're teaching by example. I always hear this, teaching by example. And I'm thinking, well, if that's the truth, then what I'm doing, then am I not being a good example? Because we try to be generous, we try to do those things and sometimes we don't see that in our kids. But what you said is really true is certain things, you have to engage in the work for you to see the generosity, to be able to be grateful and to see the value of the other people's work. That's sometimes how we've decided how to be generous. Seeing people that need that.

Yeah.

And we can find that strength in ourselves.

Absolutely. And I think, you know this, the people say like, oh, kids are so entitled now. There have always been entitled children. Right. Is it more prevalent? Maybe. I don't know the statistics. But what I do know is that kids feel happier when they're contributing. Whether they're 5 or even 15, even 20 year olds, they want to contribute in some way, even if they, they're moaning and complaining about the work, they feel better when they have a part in the main maintenance and well being of a household. And I think, you know, one way to, to combat the, the entitlement and even just some of the depression and anxiety when we give our kids a purpose, when we, when they know like I'm helping in our home, whether we're paying them or not. Some people pay for chores, some don't. I don't even know if that matters so much, but that they're helping to contribute to the betterment of something, even if it's just in the home. I think it's, I think it is imperative that our kids feel like they are contributing.

Yeah. Dave Ramsey wrote his book, wrote this book with his daughter and it was the two aspects, the father and the child that lived with him. Right. That was raised by someone, had understanding finances or developed a finance understanding while raising kids.

Yeah.

And they talked about that was very important, that they had both things. They had both Things they had, like some things you just do because you want to contribute to where you live. The other part were for them to raise money, to associate money with work. So they had both things. And, and it requires a lot of work, intentional work for you to create an atmosphere like that. Because we as parents know that do things much faster, that we can do better or, you know, it's just easier that way. But it is. I like that connection of the generosity with contribute in at all. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Well, if you think about it from an emotional standpoint, that feels good, right? To, to feel generous, to feel like you're contributing, that you have a purpose that feels good, that helps combat those emotions that contribute to depression and anxiety. Like I'm not. Medication is absolutely necessary for a lot of kids. Therapy. Absolutely. Coaching, you know, getting help for our kids is amazing. But we can also be doing things in the home that help them contribute, that then later help contribute to their financial well being as well. Teaching a kid to work is. There's no downside to that.

Yes, that is, that is true. So let's, since we already talk about kids, let's talk about your experience. How did you and your dad talk about money at home? And how did you. Do you guys sit down and have conversations about it or you just. How did that.

Well, you know, there, there were good things that we did as parents and there were things that were messier. Right. I remember once having a conversation, I'm going to throw myself under the bus. My 15 year old son, we were talking, he wanted to buy something and I was like, well, you're gonna need to get a job to do that. And he's like, a job? I'm like 15 and I'm like, well that's, that's not something you need. And so I don't want to buy that for you. I feel like it's something you can work for. And he got really stressed. He's like, mom, like I'm 15, where am I supposed to get a job? And I didn't really have any suggestions for. I'm just like, go figure it out. Right? What I found to be much more effective than just like, here's what I want you to do, go do it is, is really helping them first of all find their strengths. What they're really good at. A couple of my kids worked at the ymca. My kids really enjoy children. They really, they're really good with kids. And so they worked at the YMCA in the kid care. Right. My girl Nannied A lot. One of my sons, my, my children did work for my ex husband for a while. He was an insurance. We really helped them to see work as an opportunity to learn themselves and how they wanted to contribute. The thing that we did really well is we started a family business. My ex husband was a runner and so we started a running company where we would put on local 5k, 10k half marathons and our kids worked and they were, I mean it probably broke a child labor law here or there. I have a picture of my 8 year old like constructing these signs for the half marathon. But whatever, like, but we, we paid them for their time and you know, we, we really encourage them. I don't, I can't remember a time where they didn't pay their tithing on that money and they put a certain amount away. And I, I really think teaching our kids through the, we didn't talk a lot about money, we just did the money things. Does that make sense? And they did, they went to college with savings in their accounts and you know, didn't go into debt. They did a really good job for themselves because once they're gone. Right. You don't control a lot of those things. But I am grateful that we were able to do things like the running company providing them opportunities and helping them see their strengths. And there were a lot of mistakes along that way too. I think sometimes we probably look more like slave drivers or you know, get them to do taskmasters or taskmasters. So yeah, it just lots of mistakes but did some things well.

So is there another opportunity where you told your kids to do certain, something in a certain way with their finances that they didn't do it and how did you handle that?

Yes, of course, right there. I'm not going to throw any of my kids under the bus, but some of my kids were more prone to spend immediately and on things that seemed rather unnecessary at the time. Right. And it's a really, I think one of the hardest things for us for parents is not to jump in and correct. Right. And so, and just flipping back to my youth for just a minute, my dad was like, hey, let's start saving up for a car. When I was 14, 15, well, I didn't save. Right. So he, he gave me a budget. He's like, let's add my money to your money and see what we can come up with. Well, I didn't have any money so I, I, we went to the car lot and I got this beater old. Do you remember the Volkswagen Rabbits? It was the color of vomit. It was. And I was so mad at him. I'm like, dad, don't make me drive that. And he's like, I'm not making you do anything. You just didn't bring any money to the table, so this is what we can afford. And I was so mad, but it was one of the best life lessons for me because I was like, oh, this means literally, like, I've got to take some responsibility and I'm gonna have to contribute in my own life, right? And so those are hard lessons. And teaching my kids those. Those same things in other ways was not easy because you have to hold a line, and we don't want our kids mad at us. But I would tell myself over and over again, I'd rather have them mad at me now, then. Then confused and ignorant later. Right. And struggling later.

So, yeah, we. We did with Annika, we did a match. So whatever she would say, then we would match. Oh, and it was lots of fun because she start saving, she starts seeing that money grow. And it wasn't a whole lot, but she put some skin in the game. And she was so proud when she finally got the car. We owned that car. So it was all fixed up. It was a beater, but we had done all the work for the brakes and for everything else. So when she purchased from us, then we got the title on her name and it became official, and it was. It was a great opportunity for her to see. And she had some people gave her money for graduating from high school during COVID And we had a friend that he came in and said, how much money these two need? Because we had a price on. She's like, oh, she need this much? And he just gave to her. So she saw people being generous and she thought those things. It was a really cool experience.

And that is so awesome. And you bring up a good point with the matching thing. I think we can't expect our kids to just know how to do it. Right and to have the evening. What's the word? I'm looking for the stamina to go out and just provide for their little selves. But giving them opportunities with training wheels. Right. Will match what you have. You know, we bought a family car, and our kids were allowed to drive it, but they had to pay their own insurance on it, and they had to pay for their own gas. Right? And so I think we don't. We don't have to expect them. I know Jennifer Finley, sin5 has talked about that before, where she had to pay for everything. Not saying that. That's bad. But a lot of times kids aren't, especially nowadays with some sports and academics and you know, all the activities that some of these kids are in. Helping them to find a way to contribute to their own lives financially I think sets a great precedence for the rest of their lives.

Yes, that is true because then they learn also to advocate for themselves. They learn to say no in a certain way for spending in other things and learning how to manage while there's to a home that's so much better than to send them out and then they're going to have, you know, all the different problems that some of them could have been saved. But doing at home right in the safe with that safety.

Well, for sure, because we, we want them to learn from their failures. We just don't want to set them up for failure.

Right. Yeah.

And I do, I think so many of those things when they're taught consistently. You know, my 21 year old daughter, we went to breakfast today and she was telling me how she's like, I've got to go and talk to my boss. Like I haven't had a raise in a year. And I'm like, are you nervous about doing that? And she's like, well, I'm not excited about it, but like it feels fair, like it's time to do that. And I just love that she's, you know, on top of it enough to know that, okay, it's about time for a raise. I've worked hard for a raise. Like she can advocate for herself in that arena without, without a lot of drama and without being too afraid to do it. Right?

Yes. And, and as we see resources, we can kind of point them out to the resources. Like for her, you could say, hey, you could bring in instead of saying, look, all the, what I've done and what I deserve. But like, can we decide on a path for growth where I can be compensated financially as well? Can you give me some more responsibilities and show what she has done?

Yeah.

When we can point out those, some of those resources, hey, go look at this guy. You know, Ken Coleman talks about this, go look at this guy. And even if they get mad when we send things to them, they could, different times might hit them differently and they might be open to the advice, especially from parents.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's, that's the relationship part of it. Right. We want to have a relationship with them where they can, you know, I have a son in grad school who he's never borrowed money from me ever, but he's like, hey, mom, can I. Can I borrow a couple grand just to get me through until his internship started? Internship started this summer. I'm like, yeah, absolutely. Because I know his work ethic. I know that he'll pay me back, and he knows that, you know, I want to help him. And I think when we consider the relational benefits of teaching our children good money habits, it benefits the relationship as a whole.

Yes, it does. It strengthens that. And. And it's good to know when to pull back as well. I had Annika, and I wanted to teach her and give her different jobs so she could make money for the job, for the car, so she could save. And we had her load the dishwasher. And I was a working mom, always gone. So then I'd come home and I would put stuff on the dishwasher just so she would have a job to do it the next morning to unload stuff on the dishwasher. And I started becoming such a fight that I'm like, this is not worth. It's ruining our relationship. I wasn't managing my mind back then, so I was just trying. Fighting with her and thinking that she was creating all my chaos. So I gave up on that, and I was like, whatever. I'm not doing this anymore. Because I saw the relationship was more important than the fight, than teaching her about money, something that she would. Unfortunately, life will teach her that she has to work to get money eventually. But I wanted to preserve the relationship as much as I could, too.

And that's where you have to know yourself and, you know your kid. Right. Like, there are times where we have to really adjust the. The expectations because we do want to preserve the relationships. Right. And it's really hard holding those lines when it's affecting the relationship so much. So I think. I think that's brilliant because how often I heard this years ago, but that this. This school counselor said that rules without relationships lead to rebellion. So we have to have the relationship in place. And. And relationships can be strained. Absolutely. But as the parents, you know, if we're aware of when it's going from bad to worse and when to pull back, I think that's a huge. That's a huge benefit in a relationship with a child. Yeah.

It's good awareness for the parent to know as well that it's not their way or the highway. That could be some compromise there. There's another way to teach that lesson. It's not only one way.

Yes, absolutely.

So nowadays, what have you been studying? Do you still keep up growing your Financial understanding. And how do you do that?

You know, I, I don't do a lot of. I don't dabble a lot in the financial sector, but I do. I am very mindful about the way I spend my money. And for me, that works. Like, I know, you know, a lot of people like to play the stock market and do this kind of things. I'm more conservative than that, but I really do like to keep track of what I spend and where I spend it. I eat out more than I would like to, so that's an area I need to ratchet back. But I think there's great value in being comfortable with yourself within your financial. Your own personal financial dynamic and just recognizing that. It's kind of like you were saying earlier, like, knowing your weaknesses. Right? I know, like me going to Barnes and Noble is a bad idea. No, it really is. Like, sometimes if I go in there, I don't even take my purse because I really, I like to buy books for the sake of buying books. Now, those are small purchases, right? But I think this is where self awareness really benefits us. When we recognize where our weaknesses are, where we're a little lazy, and also where our strengths are. And focusing on those, I think we can develop a really comfortable relationship with ourselves. So that. To the point that we're not stressed about money all the time, regardless of how much we make or don't make, we can live really in this country, for the most part, we can live very comfortably within our budgets, within our financial restraints. And one other thought on that I think too, is all the comparisons, right? When I look at the size of my house or what kind of car I drive, and I'm comparing it to other people, rarely do we come out on top. And if we do come out on top, it's because we're looking down on someone else. And so I think it's just staying in our lane and just enjoying what we have and striving for more. If that's what we want, there's nothing wrong with that. But learning to be content, I think is one of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves.

Yes, it's different having ambition and being greedy. Right? Looking for. Absolutely right. That you want to be better than other people instead of just like, I want to progress, I want to have these things. I want to be able to donate to a cause. I want to be able to.

To.

To take those vacations that I want and provide for my family. And at the same time, making money. It. That's not the evil part, right?

Right, Right.

Money is just a magnifier of what.

We are 100 and I love that you talk about it that way because it really is. It's. It's. If we're willing to, it's a really great tool to use on our self work right. To look at what triggers us and where, where our weaknesses lie. Not in judgment but almost in compassion sometimes because we are coming from different backgrounds and, and mindsets and histories and, and decide what we want and work toward that versus just staying stuck in those condition. Cy.

Yes, that is, that is really important to see what you want to do, how to get there and be content where you are as you move towards whatever the goals that you have. And some people don't even have those goals. They're fine wherever they are. But it's, it's okay to have those as well. It's not evil one way or the other. Sometimes throw it out there. But it's not.

No, it's not. And I'm curious your thoughts because you work with a lot, with many. If you don't mind me asking you a question.

Sure.

You see being the pros and cons of. Rather than. Because I don't actually have financial goals. I have financial habits that are really important to me and, and you know, my income has increased, but I don't, that's not really focused for me. It's not a bad focus for other people. I like to focus on the habits that I'm, that I've created and I'm creating with my finances.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. If you, it depends where you want to be. So if right now you want to have your financial freedom and, and if it has a number attached to it, that's fine. Sometimes it's easier for people to quantify, to decide if they are achieving those goals. When you just say I want to just have those habits, then what are you tracking to make sure that you're getting the habits that you want? Because eventually if it's money, you're going to look and say okay, do I know how to manage my money? That means do I have money to cover all my bills and to do the things that I want? So you have to track something to see if you're making progress or not.

Yeah, that's a really good.

If there's money. If you're not doing a budget but there's money left over in your account, then you can say, okay, I'm living within my means.

Right.

So that's a Good point. It doesn't have to be exact number, but something has to be tracked.

Yeah. Something to quantify the progress or that, that you're maintaining the habits. Yeah, that's a really good point.

So, yeah, just like we hear, you know, other iron say, oh, a lot of general authorities is telling us 1% better.

Yeah.

Right. So it's 1% better you not eating things that you know are going to make you sick, or is it 1% better drinking 5 glass of water?

Right.

So that's your tracking to decide what is if you're making that progress that you want to do whenever. Air.

Yeah. Yeah. And I love, I love that there's that spiritual component. Nicole Lapera, she's the holistic psychologist, just talks about starting out. You just make one promise to yourself every day. Like, even if it's like I'm brushing my teeth morning and night, that's my, my promise to myself. Because even with the 1% percent better, it's, it's about our relationships with ourselves. If you think about it right, when we can look at the success and quantify it, like, okay, I've done that every day for a week, or I've, you know, I've really shown up better in that way. That's progression and that feels really good, not just to our, our brain, but to our spirit.

Yeah, it's important. I think that's the most overlooked aspect of goal setting or anything that you want to improve in your life. It's. We don't do evaluation enough. We don't look back and decide what went well, what went not so well, and how can we do better. So that's one component that I started implementing my goal setting that makes all the difference. So Sundays I have my goals. Then I looked through all of them and I decided what went well, what didn't, what I still need to do. Because that sets me up to first look at my goals from the past week. And I was like, oh, I still remember my goals. Because a lot of times you set a goal and you write out a paper and that's it.

Yeah.

So you go back and you look at what you plan, then you look through the things that you did and you decide, what do I need to adjust for the following week? And when you do this, everything with money, with everything, you see the products because you're always remembering. And then you commit and you read, repeat.

And that feels good, right?

Exactly. It shows. Like, I did this. And usually we don't even celebrate the good things. So I'll start with the Good things. What. What went well?

You know, it's funny you say that, Madeline, because in my coaching sessions, especially with teens, with adults, too, but especially with teens, I'm like, tell me what went well this week? This week. And what I love about it, and this is kind of. Maybe it's. Maybe it's a little bit of a motive. But what I love about it is they start looking for what goes well before they get here, right. And they'll be like, oh, yeah, on Tuesday, I thought of this thing and I was like, I'm going to tell. I'm going to tell Mara.

I have to tell her something, so I'm going to find it. And they start creating that habit.

Exactly. But I think it's such an important one because our human brain doesn't typically do that on its own. It's not looking for the positive. So even with finances, Right. Or in teaching our kids about money, asking a kid, like, what did. What did you like this month? You know, with your allowance or the money you made, what did you do? Well, right. Some of them will say, paid my tithing. I put 10 in savings or whatever it is. But that. That is still helping their relationship with money, Right. They're creating a dynamic with money that isn't that it. You know, it's going against the grain of the natural man, which is look for all the negative things that we're doing, right? Yes.

It's very, very interesting, and it's very important because even with the little piggyback, you see those coins and start finding coins everywhere. Because you want to put it there, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

The little things. So I wanted to find a time when you were really struggling with money. Maybe you had a debt in college or maybe while you were still a teen and dealing with your debts, you know, just like being a little more cautious, funny, more fearful. Think about someone that's going through that right now and what kind of. What advice could you tell them from your experience?

You know, I think the time that comes up for me is my former husband was. He had a really good job and he got laid off and it took a little while. He decided to switch careers. So his. His salary, it was like, cut. And he was making less than he had half than. Than he had been making at the company he had been working at. And so we cut back in all the areas. Right. And we had a really nice home and, you know, a really comfortable lifestyle and. And scaling back. I think the biggest challenge for me at that time was to not make it mean something. About our life going in the wrong direction. Right. Or that we'd done something wrong. And I think, I guess my advice to somebody going through something like that is to not personalize it. There's. When we personalize it, we automatic see almost everything. We get to. We can get to a point where we're seeing everything through that filter of like, what. What's wrong with me? What did we do wrong? You know, how. How did this happen to us? And it's this victim mindset that just feeds the fear around money, right?

Yes.

So, yeah, we did a good job of scaling back financially and we rented our house and moved into a smaller one for a while. And we made some really good choices that I didn't even see for years because I was just so stressed about thinking like, everything's falling apart, everything's, you know, going south. And, and really nothing did. Yes, we had to change our lifestyle for a while, but no one died. No one was homeless. Do you know what I mean? And so I think my advice to somebody would be like, like, really take the time to. To have some compassion for yourself. First and foremost, a major life change is hard. Right? And whether that's financial or in any other aspect of our lives, like really pausing and just being okay with not being okay and, and then making decisions from that cerebral cortex, deciding how. How to make the most of a situation that is just a life circumstance. It doesn't mean anything about anyone. It's just a challenge in your life that you can. That you will get through. Right. And so, yeah, I think, I think it would just be that being. Being willing to accept kind of surrender to whatever the circumstances are in order to then create the best life you can within those circumstances.

Yeah. Taking that step back and pause, like you said, just pause for a moment and say, no, let's. Let's look at the situation here before making the decision.

Yeah, yeah, because we perpetuate the issue, right. We get into those thought loops. We're like, what's, you know, everything's going wrong and we feel anxious, which just creates more thoughts and more opportunities to see the negative. We just look for more and more things that are going wrong. And then that anxiety just intensifies sometimes to the point where we do get sick or we do, you know, not give up, but we make choices that don't best serve us and our families.

That is true. All right, Mara, this has been great. So thank you. Our conversation. I have a few rapid fire questions. Okay. It's the first thing that comes to mind. Tell Me and if something we already talked about, try to find someone else.

Okay.

All right, so what was the worst financial decision you ever made?

The worst financial decision I ever made was when we bought a brand new car when we'd only been married for like a year.

Oh, yeah, that can be difficult.

Not our best choice.

Yeah. Yeah. All right, next one. What was the most useless thing that you ever bought?

The most beautiful. What?

The most useless. Oh, useless thing you ever bought?

Yeah, the most useless thing I ever bought was probably that perfume I told you about that like, it's like in bold in my brain. So. Yes, that.

What about what was something that you bought that turned out better than you expected?

Something that I bought that turned out better than I expected is my current laptop. It has lasted for a really long time and has been a gem. Yeah. It's a Microsoft Surface. I've loved it. So.

Yeah. Isn't that great? When you buy something, we don't even, and we're not even sure if it's going to work and it turns out so great.

I didn't do any research, but it's been a great computer.

All right, so just to end. Tell us anything, any projects that you have coming up or any programs or you said that you have a couple of retreats that you're speaking on. So tell us everything. How can people find you?

Okay. I do finally have a website. I didn't put one together for a long time and I don't do marketing on social media, but most of my information is on the website. Yeah, I, I, my favorite, my passion is one on one coaching. I love working with teens and their parents, and I do coach a lot of parents just, you know, in their personal lives as well. But teens and young adults are really my passion. I've coached kids as young as 7 and 8. Same principles to simplify. Right. I do have, I'm working on putting together a parenting program. What I, what I'm finding is, you know, a lot of it's the same content, just, we just have to tweak it to benefit our families the best. So I'm putting together a parenting program. I do do a friend and I do teen mother daughter retreats and we're looking at putting another one of those together for next spring. We're doing a mom retreat in September. Yeah, just, just a bunch of like, this is one of the great things about the coaching world. Like, you do what you want. Right. You do what feels right for you. And with the added aspect of the gospel, I love that you can Follow promptings and doing the things that you feel like Heavenly father wants you to do, it feels really good.

And you have other people and bless them, too, because it's a win win for everybody.

It is a win win. And if I may, I just want to end with a quick. Just a quick thought. Yesterday, I met with a mom and a son for the first time. And this kid's a really good soccer player. And. But he's been struggling because he has so much anxiety. And it was such an amazing experience to sit with him and talk to him about his. Who he really is as a son of God and as. As a unique individual and how that soccer is something that he does, it's not who he is. And watching his body language, like, watching him kind of melt into the couch. And like, he said, so I'm okay. And I'm like, you're 100% okay. And he's like, literally just exhaled. He's like, okay. Like, just like, all right. Everything's going to be okay. He was just so strung out and so stressed about one aspect of his life. Soccer, Right. And he's a really competitive, a really good soccer player, but that's not who he is. It's something that he does. And that's my favorite thing is teaching humans that. That who you are is not all the layers that we lay on ourselves in mortality. It's that divine being at the center of who we are. And that's my favorite part of the job.

Awesome. Thank you so much. That's been great, and it's been so fun. I'm glad that you had the time and we were able to get. Have this chat and your patience.

So this was my interview with life coach Maurice, and, well, she has a wealth of wisdom and knowledge working with teenagers, young adults, and parents. If you, your family or someone you know need some help in that area, check her information out on the episode notes and talk to her and just have a consultation just to see if it's a good fit. Everybody needs to have Amara Sandwa in their lives. I will talk to you guys next week in another episode of the money's not your problem podcast. Thank you for listening to this week's episode. Remember to, like, subscribe and share. And if you want to learn more about the attributes that make you good with money, go to my website right now, Strasbourgcoaching.com and sign up for the free 9 video series. I'll be back next week at the Brevio Brigado.