Ep.23 From Money Struggles to Financial Coach with Sara Hurst

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Hi there, Foodiosas. Welcome to the money's not your problem podcast where every week we talk about how you can become good with money in your pocket and in your mind by using practical life coaching tools and simple and efficient ways to do money math. Are you ready to invest in yourself? Let's dive into this episode.

Hey there everybody. Welcome to this episode of the money's not your problem podcast. Today I have a great interview with another coach, so you guys gonna have to handle two coaches on this call. Hi Sarah, how are you doing?

I'm doing great. Madeline, how are you today?

Good, good. Tell us a little bit about you and about yourself and share what you do to the people.

Well, I am a newly 40 year old woman.

Congratulations.

Thank you. I have been married for about half of that. Just getting close to that pretty soon here. And I've got two boys, both in elementary school which is a new season of life for me because they're both in elementary. My youngest is in kindergarten. So awesome. It's a new season of life. I'm very excited and it has allowed me to restructure how I handle my coaching practice, my one on one coaching practice, and then the coach collaborative that I'm a part of. So I got to get kind of creative with my schedule this year. You know, I have some more flexibility and it feels really great because honestly my time restraints, I called them restraints, I called them limitations for a long time. Just the reality of life, of prioritizing family over business, it always had that like good tension, that good struggle of like I want to spend more time in my business and I want to be at all of the kids things. You know, I want to not be working on weekend type of thing. So I've created those boundaries. I've been a coach for four, four and a half years, specializing in mindset and financial and priority spending plans. Helping people align where they want to be with where they are and finding the steps to get there.

Excellent. So did you go to school before? What did you always wanted to be a coach? What is the.

No, I didn't know. I didn't know that this was a. I had lots of exposure to the Dave Ramsey baby steps throughout life. We worked them, they worked out great for us. We got connected to our real estate agent through Dave Ramsey's endorsed local provider program and he ended up becoming a great friend. Not only was he a great asset when we were selling and buying this house, selling our old house, of course, buying this one, but he just became one of those people that we could rely on for different things. So after I had my second hito, I had already quit Corporate America America and had a great experience those first couple years. But then when I had a six month old, I, I was feeling a little antsy. I was like, I think I need something, another layer here to add a richness, a wholeness to my life. So started talking with that real estate agent about me possibly joining his team part time. And through that he had me take the disc profile and that Explain, explain.

To people what's the disc profile, just in case they don't know.

Sure. The disc profile, it helps you understand how you show up in work and show up in life in these four main categories. D is like a domineering, go getter type of strong personality. I is the interactive one, the one that's great at relationship. S is the stability person, that, that really loyal friend, the one who doesn't really necessarily like waves in relationships. And then C is the cautious and they're the numbers crunchers, they're the detail oriented ones. And that's who I thought I was. I thought I was a C. And I was upset with that evaluation.

Turned out to be a D. Well.

I'm a moderate D, you're right.

Okay.

But I'm actually highest in I, that interpersonal one.

So of course, yeah. Well, I saw you interacting over there at the volunteer, the live event and I was like, absolutely. That's, that's the type of coach you want. You want someone that knows how to talk to people and listen to people and interact.

Well, yeah, it does allow to easily connect with people. Being an extrovert, which honestly I had denied for a long time, I thought I was that middle of the road ambivert, I could do both type of thing. But after a lot of reflection and adding that extra key of the disc profile, which showed two things, your numbers, it showed your natural style and then your adaptive style where you lived, where you could live and where you thought people wanted you to live. And so I was performing as a C. It said that if I lived in that space for too long, I would get burnt out. And I was so. I was like, no, I'm great at all those things. I was mad. Oh yeah, I was ticked. And so I looked at that evaluation and I'm like. But then I looked at my life and I'm like, oh, that's why I got burnt out doing auditing stuff in corporate America, the black and white stuff. I can do it, I can be really good at it. But it's not what lights me up. It's working with other people and enjoying people's company and going deep with them, too. So going deep with them actually is one of the reasons why I have a pretty exclusive client list. I know some coaches, they have 20 appointments, appointments a week with people. And that is not me. I have chosen to go. It actually points to one of my life. It's an African proverb. It says, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. You're nodding like, yep, you've heard this before. And so that's why I've chosen to go deeper and longer with clients. I've been working with one woman for three and a half years, and she's my longest client to date, so.

Excellent. You can do a lot of work when you are, you know, committed this long. That person knows you. She builds that relations with you, and then you guys can keep going further.

Yeah. And obviously, we're not just staying in that money lane. You know, we're talking about mindset, we're talking about trauma. We're talking about her caring for her aging mother, you know, because she's a retiree and her mother is obviously older than she is and living independently. So there's lots of layers that I get to feel uncomfortable in, you know, because I don't have that personal experience. But I can be a support for her. I can find resources for her. And just holding that space that has been the biggest thing with all of my clients is holding that space a couple times a month to be like, hey, let's let all that stuff go right now and talk about what's right in front of you, what those feelings are that you brought here, because maybe you don't have any other time. So it's not unusual that I've seen tears and breakdowns and different things in session. So it helps that I'm not in their proximity.

Right.

Area all the time. I do have some clients in my town, but we still meet over zoom. So.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It gives the flexibility for the person and also give a little bit of the space, too, as a person. When you're right next to someone and you're vulnerable, I don't know, sometimes it feels a little more vulnerable than. Yeah, I don't know. Okay, so let's go way back. Let's go way back. Let's look back. How did your family look at money when you were growing up? Let's dive into this one.

I did an exercise through a book called Money Magic. And it helped me go all the way back to that first memory of money. And it was really revealing. And so I, you know, had a lot of emotions around it when I realized how much that has impacted me. And that memory was from being at my grandparents house when I was a little girl and noticing on, in the guest room on a dresser there was this pink tin, like pastel pink Eastery pink tin pail and it was full of coins. It probably was, I don't know, two cups worth of coins. And I remember being told by my dad and my grandma was probably in proximity. I feel like she was, I don't just have that sense that she was there too. I was told that that pail of coins, which was a lot of money, you know, looked like the little girl. Right. Was going to be mine and my sisters if we were good. And so I'm like, oh, I'm good. If I perform, if I check all the boxes, if I behave, if I get the gold stars, then money can be mine. There's something that has value that I'm told is important that lets me buy the candy that I want. Right. When you're little girls, priorities that can be mine if I perform well. And I'm the oldest of six kids and I was that typical firstborn, that high achieving, that got the good grades.

Pretty well setting the path. You're the pathfinder, right? Yeah.

The trailblazer, right?

Yeah.

Break in my parents, so I did that. That's how I operated for a long time. My dad was self employed but he also struggled with some mental health issues and so he wasn't consistent in his income. My mom, again, I'm the oldest of six kids and we're all really close in age so she was a stay at home mom until my baby sister was in grade school. So money was always tight. I could tell mom was always stressed. She, I would say she probably overshared in certain instances. But I do remember a season where we did get to go shopping in Nordstrom and I felt like a princess when the man in the suit would put the little black Mary Jane on my foot, you know. And then in contrast to older years in, in high school, like it was other stores that weren't as nice as Nordstrom. So even today I'm like, you know what if I, if I, I will have arrived if I can regularly shop at Nordstrom, that will feel like.

It was probably experience, right? It was proud because experience that, that meant so much to you, right?

Yeah, definitely. It was very formative, you know, And I was probably like five or something. But it's just one of those things that my brain decided to hold on to. And while I'm not regularly shopping at Nordstrom, that is more of a reflection of our spending priorities now. You know, we've got a house, we've got kids in private school, so, you know, lots of other priorities.

Right. Is where you decided to spend your money now. So they. That interaction with your parents, you know, that experience that you had at your grandma's house was present every day. Was that stress in the house every day, or did you feel that pressure all the time? And how did that affect you, your thoughts about money growing up?

Yeah, I would say it was definitely stress. I definitely felt that stress. Rachel Cruz talks about the money classrooms, and mine was definitely open and stressed, you know, so the anxious classroom of knowing that money was finite, that we may not have enough, that we had to make sacrifices, that there was a time when I was in high school that my mom had taken me and my friend to the grocery store and we were at checkout, and my mom said, sarah, you and her go out to the car now, please. And me being, you know, that good kid, I was like, okay. So we did. But my mom later overshared that the reason that was was because she was going to use food stamps to pay for our food. And she didn't want me to feel that exposure, so.

Right. And probably she didn't want the friend to see it. And you and the friend. Yeah, it's. It's tough. Yeah. A lot of times it's very tough. And. And we have that conceived belief that that wasn't a teaching moment, that was an embarrassing moment.

Yeah. Something to be avoided for sure. Because there was shame attached to it somehow. But I am so grateful for the sacrifices, the sacrifice of ego my mom has to. Must have had gone through for that, you know, to realize that she's got kids to feed and if this is what it takes, then this is what it takes, you know, to get the ebt, to get the resources for our family. So. And she grew up affluent, so she grew up in a home in San Diego that. A pool. And her mom was a hostess as a homemaker and. Yeah.

Hostess at the restaurant. She was a hostess at home just hosting parties. Right.

Hosting parties. You're right. Thank you for that clarification. Yeah. Not hostess at a restaurant. Yeah. She was the one organizing the caterers at her home type of thing for big parties. So, yeah. My mom had a different growing up than I did, so Right.

So then was there a shame with her on the situation that we was or did you never felt that she was, like, on board with your dad and just this is where we are as a team or.

Oh, no, they were. They were not happily married. There was definitely a lot of stress. Part of that was from my dad's mental health issues. And then, of course, my mom brought her own bag to the marriage. But sadly, my mother passed away when I was 18. And so I haven't had that parallel experience as an adult with her or to question her on it. But I did know that she was stressed out, that she was the one that managed the household finances. It was very unusual. It stood out to me when my dad would have the checkbook because it was in my mom's pretty folder that matched her handbag type of thing. And it was sticking out of his Wrangler pocket in the back. Right. This bright maroon, fuchsia color, whatever it was at the time. And he was using it to go write a check to, you know, get the truck fixed or something. Yeah.

Fell out of place, right? It wasn't at the.

It was.

Yeah.

Place. It wasn't in her handbag. It was in his back pocket. I'm surprised he didn't take it out of the darn thing, you know?

But he just kept it, huh?

He just kept it in there. So.

So was there a specific event you told about your grandma's house? But was that the finding experience to help you in your financial journey? Like maybe something that happened, that switch how you thought you thought about money or.

Yes. So when my husband and I were engaged, I remember having gone through Crown Financial Ministries ourselves as a part of our premarital counseling and just having that taste for debt, you know, I was. You did the math, probably. I was pretty young when I got married. I was 22. And we. I didn't have any debt. Dan had some debt. He had some credit cards, and he had a car loan. Trying to remember the timing of when he got the car loan done. But it doesn't matter. We had some debt going into marriage. At least that was what it was looking like. But then we made some changes. We got on a tighter budget. I was. I was renting a room in Orange County, California, and I was working full time and planning a wedding in Oregon and all these things. And I was living on $80 a month for food and, you know, hair care.

Expensive, right? The rental was expensive, yeah.

Yeah, definitely. And I wasn't, you know, making a whole lot of money, even though I was working for a landscape architect firm as their administrative assist. Um, you know, it's just a culture down there. It's different in a lot of different ways, but in some ways, it's very much the same as where I am now. But a light moment, a light switch moment. I, I, I kind of put my foot down before we got married. Um, I was like, I feel really uncomfortable with having this debt. I think we should make this sacrifice over here so that we can start our marriage debt free. And so we did. We started our marriage debt free. And I wish I could tell you that it stayed that way, but it did not. We didn't actually get rid of the credit cards, so those became a regular part of our life. We had a little bit of living on credit card float for a while. I was trying to do a budget. I didn't really have a whole lot of experience doing that together, like a household budget. Kind of fumbled my way through that one. I remember one day throwing my hands up in the air because he had so many little, like, gas station purchases, you know, $2.17 here and $4 there. And I was trying to keep track of it. I didn't have a good system. And I was like, you do it. I remember that one being one of our early money fights. But a moment, another moment that really kind of punched me in the gut was when we decided we wanted to check off the box. You know, you get married, you get a house, you get a dog, the plant, the whole thing, right? We were ready for the dog, we felt like. And so we started looking. We were emotionally ready. We were ready to check off that box. We weren't financially ready, not even for a shelter dog. So we, I started looking at their cute little faces online, and I found one I wanted to go meet. And of course, when you meet them, yeah, yeah, we did decide to bring home, but I couldn't afford the $80 to buy the shelter dog and pay for his things. And then it wasn't just the $80 for that. It was also the 350. Right. And yeah, there were a couple more things after that too, but that's a big contrast to our new dog. But that's a, that's a different story. But I just remember feeling, like, a little bit shameful, but so excited for the dog at the same time. I kind of hate that that colors our story with him because he was an amazing animal and he passed away four years ago. But I wish I had handled that differently. I wish I had had a plan before I started looking at the. The dogs.

It's just like the house, right? Looking for a new house. You're looking for a new car. You put that in our head. We put that. Those things in our heads, and we just keep finding. Because we're gonna find it. But then we make this decision right now without pausing, without taking in consideration where we are, and then you have to reap the consequences.

Yep. So I think that was probably that tipped us into some more debt. And we got to the point. I'm trying to remember what the. I don't know, I just. That feeling kept building up of like, I'm uncomfortable with this. I hate having to pay these fees and seeing the interest on there for the amount of the payment that we had, and it just was uncomfortable. And so we did something that now I know that I wouldn't have done with today's information, but we had a paid for car. And so to get rid of the three credit cards we had, we took out a loan for the equity on the car and paid off those credit cards. So in the long run, it ended up working out for us. We were disciplined. We were intentional about getting out of debt. And we've been debt free of all the things for three and a half years now. And so if you did the math on that one, I did not start out being a financial coach debt free, but we were working a plan. We had the intentionality, we had the grit and the moxie to see it through. So I've been there, I've done some stupid. And I'm never going back.

So I think that's important. It's the lesson, right? Yeah. It wasn't working for you then. Then once you get rid of it, then it's. You want to keep that feeling that you're, no, I'm good. Now my money's gonna grow. Instead of thinking, oh, I have to pay all these people to pay those. That lifestyle that might not be at the moment your best interest.

Totally. And without having gotten our budget light enough because the debt was gone, we wouldn't have been able to put our children into private school, which became a very important priority the last couple of years. So I'm really, I'm really grateful that our story at least had that timeline and that it wasn't, you know, a more delayed one. Everything where we're like, let's pay the minimums, it'll be fine. No, we got aggressive about it. You know, those stimulus checks came in a couple years ago, and I'm like, like, it'd Be nice to, you know.

To do something fun.

Yeah, do something a little bit more fun. Because we're all in lockdown. Right. So. But no, we got rid of the, the car loan and that was the last thing we paid off was my car loan. Not that same one for me.

Yeah, but you had a car loan. It's just, it became part of it. So during your difficult times and you and your husband trying to, to be, you know, to have this plan to do the budget and get those things paid, were spirituality any part of your journey?

Yeah. So we were both raised Christian and that was a priority to us before we were married and remained a priority to us as we've been married. Spirituality and our, in our faith and our church attendance, you know, has had a very unexpected journey, but it has always remained a priority. Something that's like foundational in our hearts and our lives. And so we have prioritized giving our time at church. I'm a volunteer youth leader again and it's amazing. I have 6th grade girls this year for my small group and man, it's amazing.

And you have two boys and I have two boys. You have two boys. So it's a completely different animal. Right?

Oh, my goodness. They talk so much. It's fun. And it's also like herding cats.

Right, Right. That is true. Huh? Because you're trying to get everybody going the same direction, but everybody has their own minds.

Yeah, definitely. So I, I love that I'm earning influence with them. And also I have this heart for students going to school debt free, if that's the path they want to take, going to school after high school, that is. And I think that's so important because we're asking these tiny little people, these many adults, to make some big financial choices by taking on huge amounts of debt with student loans. And so I am to them about all their options, like, especially as the culture has changed the last couple of years, like, who knows what weight a college degree is going to have in certain areas anymore. So, yeah, talking about the flexibility there and then really what is, how can they honor God with their lives, you know, through their financial choices, through their career choices. But of course, today it's more about their words and how they talk to their sister type of thing that was recently using our words to give life in.

In. You know, I, I was a high school teacher for 17 years and I taught financial literacy for the longest time time, personal finance for all those 17 years. And it was in one of my, in the middle of my journey with Dave Ramsey. I taught a class to my geometry class. It wasn't even my financial literacy class. And I talked about it. I shared with them. We watched a video from Anthony and you at the time and about him going to school and then getting out of debt and all that. And I didn't think any of it. And then few years later, one of my students from that class was at the Dave Ramsey doing her debt free screen. Holy smokes. Yeah, she went through college and she had student loans. She got her master's degree. She had student loans. And then. But she got back to something that she had heard that was a possibility. So sometimes you might not make that impact right now, but they know where to go back. And I think about that with the gospel as well. I teach my girls and then. So they know that when they need to think about repentance and all, that they know where to go back. Yeah, they're not following a path. That was what I wanted.

Yeah.

To go back.

That's beautiful. Yeah, that, that foundation thing, like I mentioned before, you know, we've got that stability. We know the Lord always cares for us, that he's always going to provide for us. We've never been out on the street before. We've never used the D word in our marriage. Yeah, there have been hard times for sure. Some of them are just self inflicted though. Right? Exactly.

Exactly.

And it's okay for us to feel that pain of those choices, you know, and I see that all the time, of course, in parenting. You know, I've got a sixth grader and a kindergartner and yeah, they, they get to experience the outcomes of their choices. You know, I, I feel like I would be doing them a disservice if they didn't experience that. But at the same time, I'm counseling and coaching them to choose the right, the better path that I can. That I can see with my limited knowledge and experience. So. But yeah, we're, we're heading into the teenage years with that older one, so. But I have a couple of rules in my house. House. When it comes to money. You want to know them for my kids?

Yes, absolutely.

Okay. Yes, you can take out student loans. No, you won't live here.

Oh, yeah, you can have credit cards.

Yeah, you can have a credit card when you turn 18. No, you won't live here. And then I have one about dating too, which does. Funny. And it's that if they're gonna have, if they're gonna take a girl out on a date or something, they have to be Able to drive, they have to be able to pay for it, which means they need to have a job. They're also paying for some other things in their life like car insurance and probably at least part of their cell phone bill at that point. I don't know. Will we have cell phone bills in the future? Who knows? I know it could be, it could be a lot cheaper than they are now. So if they can't do those things, if they can't pay for the date and driver, then they're not ready to, to date anyone. So my hope, my side hope is that perhaps they'll be so busy with school and their sports or other activities and then working, there just won't be adequate time to have a girlfriend. So until college, you know, they don't have all the household responsibilities that they do here. So we'll see.

Yeah. And be prepared that this might not happen and be okay with that because.

Yeah.

That possibility. So I'm just throwing out there, I'm a little on this side right here. So I was like, I don't know, just, you know, have your options all open. Yes.

Well, if I set the bar high though, then they, you know, they can at least reach it. They could probably exceed it too. But if I have a low bar, are then yeah, I don't, I don't feel super comfortable with that. I don't know, there's a lot, a lot of layers in that for me for sure. But I think calling them to a high standard is valuable, so.

Right.

Adjusting my expectations for reality. I hear what you're saying. Yeah. Having that realistic.

Not really. It's just been just being okay. That it could be different.

Yeah.

Because sometimes when we have that expectations, then the resentment, resentment comes in because you're given all these opportunities for them to reach those. And sometimes they might choose not to take advantage of what you offering. They might choose a different path and then you resent them for not. Sometimes we resent people for not doing that. We're setting, but we set you up, we help you so much and they don't do it so, you know, accepting other people's agency. But let's go back over here. You're talking about how you guys had your faith being strong and was there besides the faith, was there someone that had an impact in your financial journey?

Well, we had some lessons of what not to do, you know, watching. My parents fought a lot. My husband's parents, my father in law, he primarily runs their budget and I knew this before we were married. And one of his Practices was to have my mother in law manage the household money and all the bill paying and all the things for a couple of months out of at a time. You know, I don't know how frequently they would do it, but kind of handing the reins over to her type of thing. And I thought that was interesting because you know, as I've been married for a little bit, we definitely each have our own strengths. And having lost my mother already, well, I've lost both of my parents. So I have this probably heightened fear of me, my mortality and my husband not knowing what to do if I were to pass away early. So. Or unexpectedly I'm gonna pass away at some point. But yeah, that's inevitable.

Right.

So I like that practice of kind of handing the reins over totally and being like, hey, I'm. But I'm still here, you know, if there is something that you need help with. It didn't sound like it. Very collaborative, you know, on their part. So that part kind of turned me off. But then I thought it was an interesting idea too. And then I'd heard of Dave Ramsey before we were married. And that was one of the two financial programs that we were looking at, the Financial Peace University or Crown Financial Ministries. And it was a schedule, it came down to a scheduling thing honestly that we went to Crown Financial Ministries instead because we had a small group that we could be a part of that fit with our schedule. But then we had a friend, an old coworker, mentioned Financial Peace University many years later, kind of brushed it off. And then I don't remember who it was that prompted me to buy Financial Peace University on DVD when it was still 13 lessons and now it's nine. But I still have that. I still have that whole pack. And that was. That was informational and transformational in a lot of ways. But it was more of a seed planting to be honest, at that point in time. Time, because we just weren't ready to go. Gazelle intense like Dave Ramsey talks about to get rid of your debt and to have that emergency fund, so. But still living with that unrest with the debt. So I don't know when the switch flipped for us to get like super serious about paying off the debt. But I knew we weren't going to take on any new debt. So it was kind of progressive. Yeah, it was progressive progression. Yeah, we were committed to taking on no new debt, but we weren't crazy fast about paying it off. The stuff that we did have. But definitely what kicked that last little push was when I decided to become A financial coach. I was like, okay, I gotta put boots on the ground. I have got to get a bit more buttoned down in these things. And yes, I know the plan and now I'm, I'm gonna make it to the finish line and we're gonna do it. So my coaching income got to help contribute towards that, which is really great to feel, you know, useful in that particular way in the household. Useful in so many other ways. I call my other full time job Hearst Household director. Hearst is our last name because there's so much that goes into it, so.

Right, absolutely. So from those people, even if it was a negative experience that you have with your parents growing up and you're in law, so you're talking about you've seen different things. Is there anything that you learned from that and maybe from your past that you still carry with you that either I'm never gonna do this again or something that you're like, no, I think this was really helpful. I'm gonna carry this, this with me.

Something that I have been processing actually over just the last probably 10 months has been this shared experience with my mother. Because growing up with those financial struggles and then having, losing. Having lost her when I was 18, I realized this at like Christmas time last year that I was. Every year I was kind of feeling this financial struggle, like there's not enough. You know, it was definitely a scarcity mindset. There's just not enough. I can't do what I want. This is going to be the best that I, I can do or that I'll ever be able to do. And it was definitely limiting. And it wasn't until a good friend and actually a fellow coach pointed out like, maybe I know what you told me about your mom because she's also lost her mom. Maybe that's a shared experience that is really hard for you to move forward from. Move forward out of or. She didn't say move on because if you. Right, right when you lose someone, I don't know, I get sensitive about people saying, oh, why don't you just move on? You know, type thing. I think it's so insensitive because we don't, we, we forward. But when she pointed that out, I was like, yeah, and what a, a burden that my mom would never ever want me to carry. You know, like in order for us to stay connected, we both have to have the same struggles.

Yeah. It wasn't a legacy. It wasn't a legacy that she wanted to carry. Even if she had that she didn't want you to carry that.

That part, you're right. And I had gone through some. A piece of that realization, not with the money part, but the what would my mom want for me or not want for me, me kind of reflection. When I was engaged to Dan, because I was very young and a lot of people were like, why are you getting married so young? And we. My mother passed away after Dan and I had been together for six months. And so he knew her and she really liked him. And when we were getting closer to marriage, I was like, am I with him because I want to be with him with him, or because I want to be with someone my mom knew. I don't want to lose that connection type of thing. So obviously the answer became, obviously, hopefully it is you guys. I realized, you know, he is my best friend and my mom would want me to be with someone who's my best friend, not just because she had met him.

It was both. It wasn't one or the other. It was. And yeah.

So as I brought that realization to this new question of like, am I. Am I my self sabotaging really by creating this financial struggle or living. Choosing to live in a financial struggle, even those feelings, even though on paper we were fine, you know, there's always going to be that desire for more in so many ways, especially with having kids who want more. So, yeah, that, that's been a big one for me to process this last year that I've learned that some of the things I do with money have a much deeper root than seems reasonable, to be honest. That's what my, my higher functioning brain says. Like, Sarah, you shouldn't have to deal with this stuff. You know, this is really dumb of you to make that an issue. You should be living your best life. But it's real and it's definitely tied to my heart.

Thanks for sharing that, Sarah. I know this is, this is something that, that's weighed on you and I appreciate you sharing because a lot of my, my listeners, they. They go through those and it's. Dave says that all the time. It's personal finance. Right. It. It has to do with our lives. So we make those decisions on emotion. We don't. We use our prefrontal cortex to make those decisions, but we base on what would make us feel good and what would make us feel proud. And I see that your mom would feel super proud and seeing you moving forward and not because your kids are watching you and they're like, well, if she's doing that because of grandma, then, you know, she didn't want that. She wanted you to be happy and she wanted you to. To make those positive impact on. Imagine those six girls that you're mentoring. Right?

Yeah.

Super important. And so how. And you already share a little bit, but how are you reconciling this is. Do you think it's gonna need more time for you to reconcile these things from the past or. And what do you use for that?

Yeah, I. I think that it's an ever growing thing for me for sure. Especially since the realization came pretty close to Christmas for me last year. I haven't had this. This whole expanse of time to process all these things like I have now. So going into this holiday season, I am excited to make choices that reflect that freedom and that new knowledge, which is really freaking cool to say that I can live with more freedom because I didn't realize I was a captive before, man.

Getting a little. When you don't have. When you have debt, it's decided for you what you can do with your money. You have to pay those people back back. Right. And when you have the disposable income, then you decide how you're going to use it, then you can plan a little more and spend a little more on Christmas gifts. Right. There's nothing wrong with that. You saved it. You are not into debt and you have that. I think the most important here is your mindset has changed. Right. So then you have a more abundant way to see things and possibility. It sounded like before you didn't have that possibility. It's like, no, this is the way it has to be or this is the way that. Because I. I miss my mom or something. But right now it's sound that you have more possibility in you.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great way to define it. So I'm excited for it and kind of exploring that like, what is enough for us type of concept because I feel like it was always more, you know, and it's like, well, what is enough? You know, what is good? You know? And what. What's in that space? Is it more toys, more games, more vacations? Is it more experiences? In our town, we have a. The symphony hosts a fundraiser where they decorate these tre trees. The trees themselves are of course beautiful and themed and everything. But then they get all these donations and so some of them might be like hiking themed or another one might be pet themed or another one might be adventure or spa themed. I love those ones, especially if they've got an espresso machine with it. But we go buy raffle tickets and spend an evening downtown doing that before, it had been tight enough where it's like, okay, we can only afford the raffle tickets. And then it became, well, okay, we can do the raffle tickets and we can get a treat. And then it was treat and dinner, too. And so, actually, one of the things I'm looking forward to. We've got a couple of variables in our budget right now, but seeing if we. And the timing, too. Seeing if we can stay the night downtown after that. Yeah, yeah.

And eventually it might come to a point where you're hosting one of those three.

Yeah.

Wouldn't that be super cool?

They start in June. I think they start planning in June. So, you know, that. Would that be even early for me? I'll have to admit, I know it's just October, early October right now, but I'm already thinking about my tinsel Christmas tree and how it's not going to fit in my new office space. I reorganize things, so I'm gonna have to get a new one.

Absolutely. And, you know, this is one way that you're teaching your kids. And so what are other ways that you're teaching your kids, and how has your development influenced and how you're teaching them now?

Well, my oldest is 11, and he got to house it for our neighbors over the summer. So he would get paid in cash, of course, which is super great and convenient right now.

Yeah, yeah.

And. And he. We talk about his money and what jobs it needs to have, and some of it does need to go into his savings account. He's had a savings account since he was little, and one of his goals is to be able to pay for part of his car when he's older. But one of his main goals this summer for spending was buying a laptop, and so he did that. He bought a refurbished laptop all on his own. I did not pressure him to buy that. It was on a school list somewhere. It was, like, recommended for. For 6th grade. But he really wanted to have his own. Oh, sorry. He'll be sure to tell you that he also bought a trackball mouse. It was very important.

Absolutely.

Because the thing is ginormous. I don't know if you. They're like, I've seen them. And that thing was like, I don't know, 36 bucks or something. So. But he bought the laptop for about 200, and he's taking good care of it. So we talk about stewardship, too, you know, like, the money allows us to do certain things. Things. And we will take care of those things.

Yeah.

There's actually a book series that has helped us with a lot of responsibility concepts when it comes to money and self ownership called Warrior Kid.

Oh yeah, we love Jocko. I read all. I love it. Yeah.

Oh, that's so cool. Is. I. I can't. I don't have a good concept of how tall he is. Is he pretty tall?

He's pretty tall, yeah. Yeah.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah, he's awesome. He answer a question for me in one Q A. I love. Yeah.

Oh, that's so great. Yeah. Warrior Kid is great books.

Yeah.

Chapter book. We have even started reading them to our kindergartner too. Especially talking about like self.

Uncle Jake. We love Uncle Jake.

Yes, Uncle Jake. Oh, so great. So great. I'm glad you know it. So, yeah, those are some of the ways I teach them. The younger one though, you know his. They say you gotta find a person's currency, you know, especially when it comes to little kids. He. He doesn't care about stuff. Snacks consistently. He doesn't care about screen time consistently. He doesn't care about money consistently. So we're still trying to dial that in with him, but, you know, still bring the concepts to him in a way that hopefully hits home because he's like, oh, I want to buy that thing.

Like, great.

You get to do work to earn some money to buy the thing.

Difficult because sometimes you have a kid that doesn't care about buying the things. So then we cannot. How do we encourage a kid that doesn't want to buy anything to make money and it's money attached to work. Or you have that kid that you cannot not say punish, but you like the consequence. You cannot find a consequence that goes with the behavior when they're not working with the behavior. So one of our girls, she didn't care for electronics for the longest time. Her thing was social, so she didn't have a whole lot of friends. So every time she was gonna do something with the friend, that was our, you know, our card, you know, she. You don't do this, you're not doing that. Then you're not going out with a friend. Right. So it's just like you said, you have to find what really makes that difference for that kid. And you, you know, the way you're showing, it's like you're showing and you're also talking to them that this is really cool.

Yeah, it's. And I'm super proud of my big kid, you know, for making that choice. And he's bought games before and whatnot, but this time it was something quite a bit different. So. Yeah. And it paves the way for other conversations too about, like online responsibility and different things. So. Yeah, yeah.

And you have to take those opportunities and talk about those other things.

Yeah. For our house right now, in this season of life, he has to do homework at the dining room table. Um, because when we got him his Apple Watch, he started texting his friends and grandparents on a group text. And, you know, didn't realize we, you know, one of those things we didn't realize we had to teach him was not do group texts with all of your friends and your grandparents. So.

Right, right, right. Because they don't need to hear all the things that you have to say.

And.

And that's why we're there. Right. We're there to guide them. And that, that money goes with everything that we do. Right. Eventually it's going to get to a point where you're going to have to have, you know, tougher conversations and then you don't want them to group text everybody.

Yeah, no, I hate group text myself. You know, unless there's like an event that we're all at type of thing. I hate group texts.

And then when, then people respond, Everybody gets the, no, please don't reply, reply all or just send a message back. Just write a secret one. Right?

Yeah, totally. If we don't all already have each other's numbers, then there's some lines of etiquette we gotta follow. So.

Absolutely. And that, that's our job as parents to teach that. So is there a situation where one of your kids doesn't have to be the oldest one because he seems to be more engaged with the money right now, but any one of them that you, you gave them an advice and you tried to guide them and they did not do it. And how did you handle that?

Yes. So our dentist list has sticky hands that they give out as the prize, you know, for a good dental appointment. And my 5 year old loves those sticky hands. And I'm like, okay, the house rule is that if it ends up stuck to the ceiling, it ends up in the trash afterwards. And did that prevent him from throwing it up really high and then higher and then higher? No. No, it didn't. And so I got to. I had the opportunity to follow through on what I said I was going to do, which, which was it was gonna to go in trash because otherwise there'd probably be 10 hands up on the ceiling three times.

Right. Because you go to the dentist quite often. Right? Yeah.

They last a surprising long amount of Time if they're not on the floor getting, you know, dirt and dog hair on them. So he was disappointed, of course, that I followed through on that, you know, but I had already advised him to not to be throwing it up, to throw it instead at the window. I said that that was okay. But he has. He has shown that he will be someone who needs to potentially learn the hard way multiple times. And that makes me want to wrap my arms around him more and at the same time pull my hair out.

Absolutely right. Because you have those, you know, that they need to learn and you cannot just rescue them all the time. But at the same time, it's just like you said right now, just give him lots of hug, lots of love, because, you know, and it's going to be for a long time like that where he's going to need that. He's going to.

Gonna.

My. He might not come and ask you, but he's gonna need that.

So then for me, it's. It's gonna be important that I have good boundaries and I'm not trying to rescue him all the time when he does end up in a situation, or my oldest, of course.

Right.

Client, or my sister, you know, ends up in a situation that they don't like being in, you know, and like, what is my responsibility? What am I called to? What is the Lord saying, I want you to take action in? Sometimes that's going to be sitting on my hand. Hands, you know, because we have that.

Tendency to want to do. Offer things to people, but trying to control them. But they have to come and ask us if they want that help. Right?

Yeah. They have to ask is often a big part. But then also I don't have to say yes.

Right.

There's not that obligation just because I'm in a different slash better situation perhaps than one of my sisters. I don't. I'm not obligated to help. I'm obligated to love. And that doesn't always mean helping in the way that they are asking what they want.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Showing them the dignity. Also my children, also my clients, also my friends of, you know, going through the thing, because I think that can be a valuable teacher. So.

Yes, absolutely. And. And so let's go to this. So let's say someone that's going through. Think about your hardest time financially, and think about that mom that's going through the same thing that you did. And if she would come and ask you advice, what would you say to her?

So a hard time financially was when I was laid off. In 2009, I was in title and escrow and my job kept on changing and it got lower and lower on the you need to be here list, it seemed. And so I remember going to my boss and saying, hey, me and my best friend, we're both working there and her and her husband actually moved in with us because our husbands were in custom cabinetry and their workload dropped off substantially. So they were both in school and we had made the decision a couple months before that they would move in with us while the guys were in school and the women would, you know, bring, bring home the paychecks. And I remember going to my boss saying, hey, I know things aren't looking so great and if you would, please, if you're at all able to give me the opportunity to allow us to not be laid off at the same time. Because they had already done one round of layoffs, I felt that I was on the short list and, and you know, he appreciated. They came to him and that ended up happening. I was laid off and my friend wasn't at all actually. So that was a really tough Christmas season. It was right before Thanksgiving. Um, and I was scared, but scared enough to also do action, you know, to take steps to be like, okay, I gotta get on unemployment. Cause I don't know how long it's gonna take for me to find a job. I've gotta access the resources that are available to me and there's no shame in accessing those resources. And they're not meant to be forever. And I don't wanna live, live in that.

No, that wasn't your plan. Yeah, it was there for what it's supposed to be, right?

A short term mandate so that we keep lights on. You know, it's winter, we get a lot of snow here that year. We got a lot of snow too. But it worked out that, you know, I, I checked all my boxes, I was applying for jobs, but I would tell that, that person, that woman in that same situation to keep going after it. Don't give up. Cut everything that you can, which means Netflix. And back then it was like the mal Netflix, you know. Oh, yeah, remember that? Oh, gosh, yeah. I told you. I'm 40, so, you know, I remember those. They mailed it to you guys in the mail. They sent you discs, your DVDs that way. And it was an upcharge, I think, for Blu Ray. But cut all the things that you can do some more meals at home for sure. Find some other resources to stretch your meals, have those conversations with the members in your household too. Don't try to keep the status quo quo when you are hurting.

And then, then you can just make it worse, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And if I had played it off like everything was fine, then I also wouldn't have been able to be vulnerable enough to ask for help and to say like, hey, I am stressed out and have that conversation too with our housemates at that point to be like, hey, what solutions can we come up with together? You know, there's power in community. You know, like, I wanted going back to that African proverb. I wanted to go far, so I knew I had to go together. Um, and that was hard. It was hard. We also, we were, we were close to hit the. Hitting the button on the talking to the in laws thing too. We knew that that was a potentiality, but we didn't end up having to utilize that resource. Uh, I know that they would have been there for us in a heartbeat, but it wasn't something that, that we got to at that point in that season. So, yeah, keep pressing on. Get creative and find your community. Community to keep going forward.

I agree. Community is really important at that point too. I think sometimes we have the tendency to just close ourselves off and thinking that nobody would help us. And when we think that way, then we act in a way that we're closed off. And then people think, okay, nobody even think anything of us. Right. But when we're hurting is sometimes it's the overcoming that discomfort of telling people that you need help. But then you're gonna see the beauty of other people. You're gonna see. See how we are their stewardship at that point. Right. They are helping us out. They see us as someone that's important in their lives and they, they're willing to help because we want to help other people. Right. When we're in a good situation. That's our nature that wanted to help others.

And we can't help necessarily when we don't know that there's a need. Right. I had a friend who was going through a time of fundraising for going to. She going to a school overseas. And that was just their structure. They didn't want you to work while you were there. And so she was fundraising and she's like, this was really hard for me to like let you guys know that this was the structure. But also I also realized that I'd be robbing others of the opportunity to give and to be called to something to join me in this. If I didn't say anything, you know, And I was like, that's so beautiful. I'm in.

Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. Because you see the heart of the person, right? You see, you don't see the evil. Right. There's no evil there. That person's being vulnerable, hard to. And they. If they need help and we're in a pos Position to help, why not?

Yeah, yeah. Never even crossed my mind, you know, that this was an evil request type of thing. You know, it's just like, how much can I do? You know, it wasn't, am I going to do anything? It was, how much can I do? So.

Exactly. That's. That's beautiful. Thank you so much, Sarah. And. And this conversation has been great. I have a few rapid fire questions for you. A little more fun. So tell me whatever comes to mind right away. Away. Don't keep singing too much. So, first one I have for you. What was the worst financial decision you ever made?

Buying a dog on the credit card.

Oh, so that was you? That was you. Nobody. That's kidding. Someone called David friends at one point and said that they had financed the dog.

Oh, we didn't. Well, I guess it was financing, but it wasn't like a. A specific program. It was just on credit card. But. Yeah, but it was $80. It was $80. Asked them ahead of time, you know, how much is this going to be? But I did not. I did not.

And then you have no idea. All the other costs. Right? The little bed, this and that. Ah, it's great.

Oh, naive. Yeah.

All right, next. What was the most useless thing that you ever bought? It could be a gadget. It could be something in the kitchen. Could be anything.

Oh, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the kitchen. It was an onion slicer, like box thing. Like you. You still have to slice the onion. Onion. And then you have to put it on the grate. And then you have to use all of the muscle in your body to push the thing down. And then you still have the stupid grate that you have to clean. It's like, no, I could have done this faster and easier with a knife.

Okay, there you go. We think those things are incredible, right? We watch it on TV and you're like, oh, this is gonna change my life, how I cut the onion. And you had to pre cut it. That is fun. All right, this one is really good. What was something that you bought that turned out better than. Than you thought? Let's see.

Looking around my office here, this heating panel, actually, it's like this. It's probably 2ft tall and maybe 5ft long and it's about sections so I can like wrap it around underneath my legs here. And it's a. It's a twofer because not only does it keep me warm here in my office basement, it's a lot safer that I don't have something with coils and a fan. So the fan thing, I don't have to worry about making noise while I'm in session. And then my dog loves it too. He's just on the other side.

Yeah.

You didn't even know I had a dog.

No, I didn't even know. That sounds fun. Why did you buy that, that panel?

When or where?

Where.

Sorry, where? It was an Amazon purchase.

Yeah, look at that. See, now I'm gonna have to look into it.

Do it. Yeah. Oh, it's got a timer on it too.

Oh, that's great. That way you can just leave it, let it go and. And I'll worry about if it's left it on.

Well, and what's kind of nice too is when it shuts off, that's also a cue because I start to feel it cooling down. Right. I don't have the constant heat and I'm like, oh, it's time to get out of my office probably and have.

Some time for you to walk. There you go. Sarah, thank you so much for this. So tell us a little bit about where people can find you and if they want to connect with you, where you are, your site or whatever and what you have.

Absolutely. Thank you for that opportunity. It's been great being on here with you. You can email me at help hello.devoted financial coachingmail.com you can shoot me a text at 509-396-5225 and then, you know, I am upgrading my website so I'm not going to give that to you today. But there will be a link. If you do email me, you'll get an auto reply.

Awesome. How about social media? Are you on the Instagrams? Tick Tocks.

Tick Tock. You heard I'm 40, so no, I'm not on the Tick Tock. I watch them but not. Not saying. If you're 40 or older, you can't be on Tick Tock. It's just not something I've. I've delved into. Same with Instagram, but I'm on Facebook so you can find me a devoted financial coaching with Sarah on Facebook.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Sarah. It's been great. And I guess we'll see you around in another Dave Ramsey event, right?

Sounds so much fun looking forward to it. Thanks.

All right. Thank you. Bye. Bye.

Bye.

And there you have it, my interview with my financial fellow coach, Sarah Hurst. I love this interview because it shows that even now she's helping people with their money. She had to go through her journey to become good with money. If we did it, you can do it, too. So tune up next week for another episode of the money's not your problem podcast. En a te revio obrigada.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode. Remember to, like, subscribe and share. And if you want to learn more about the attributes that make you good with money, go to my website right now, Strasbourgcoaching.com and sign up for the free 9 video series. I'll be back next week at the Brevio Brigado.