Ep.33 Building, Growing, and Selling: Entrepreneurial Insights from Paperbell's Laura Roeder

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Hi everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Money's not your Problem podcast. Today I have for you an interview with our guest Laura Roeder, who is an entrepreneur who's actually living outside London. And I'm going to let her introduce herself to you.

I'm the founder of Paper Bell and Paper Bell as a software company for coaches to run their business so your clients can pay, schedule, sign their contract, get their onboarding package all in one place. Everything you need to run an online coaching business. And I've been an entrepreneur for about 20 years. I've had some successful exits from my companies. I've had all sorts of businesses, freelance design course businesses, software businesses. Been. It's been a journey.

How fun. Tell me a little bit about what was your degree in?

My degree is in advertising. I, I went to the University of Texas.

Okay, so she's originally from Texas and she's now living outside the United States. How do you like women out there?

I, I love the uk so my husband is from here. We have a lot of family here. So yeah, it's. As an American it's really fun to be able to explore the UK and explore Europe. So I love it.

And she does come and visit family. She has two family in Texas which is really good because they probably miss her a lot. And she has two kids, right?

Yes, yes.

And they are five years old and nine years old.

That's right, yeah. Older boy, younger girl.

Oh, how fun. Let's talk a little bit about your life growing up. How was in your family? How was money field and what did you learn about it or your first memories about it?

My family growing up, my dad was a self employed architect and my mom helped kind of run the office for him and also she would have part time jobs working for the state for the benefits, the health insurance and other benefits like that. So I did grow up in a family where we were supported by a family business which I think has given me a huge advantage as an entrepreneur because I know a lot of people, you know, are given the message that it's, it's crazy to work for yourself. It's really risky. My dad's business was never very big so most of my life it was just him and that was the whole Business. But it did, you know, make enough money to support our family. Family. So I think, I think that was a huge advantage that I had. And definitely the message around money was to be frugal, to not have debt, you know, to be responsible with money. We definitely had, you know, enough money. And especially compared to how my parents were raised, they did, like, very well financially compared to how they grew up. So in our extended family, we were kind of the ones, like, who had made it, you know, my parents both went to university, which was. They were the first in their families to do that. So my family was kind of, I guess, climbing that, you know, financial ladder from. From where they had come from.

How many siblings do you have?

It's just me. I'm an only child.

Oh, great. And so you learn from your dad running their own. His own business, and you learn from your mom seeing her work. How was the money handle with you? How did you get access to money? Did you have to do chores?

It wasn't really. I didn't have much access to money. It was more that my parents. I like, I remember we did back to school shopping, you know, and they would buy me new clothes for back to school, or I would get, you know, presents or money for my birthday. I mean, I must have gotten some sort of allowance when I was a teenager. It was just, I don't know, whatever the bare minimum was to get by, I guess. They actually didn't allow me to have a job when I was a teenager. I wanted to have a job, uh, but they thought it was important that I spend all my time focusing on schoolwork and in university. I was very, very fortunate to have them pay for my university. So I didn't need, you know, to get a job in order to pay for it. So I was able to have internships when I was in university that either mostly they paid a little or they didn't pay very much. But I did end up graduating college early, just a year early, in three years. And I think part of my motivation for doing it is I was actually very eager to get a real job and to support my financially, like I was. I was very excited about that.

It's wonderful because your parents saw the importance of going to school and they were in a position to help you go to school without getting any student loans. Right, that's.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you remember getting any scholarships or applying for different things?

No, it was pretty affordable because I did go to a state university. It was manageable, the, the fees for it. So I don't think I had any kind of scholarships, but in retrospect, you know, I did apply to other schools and out of state universities. Now I know that I would have had to get student loans, you know, my parents could afford in state tuition, but wouldn't able to have been afforded more than that. I feel quite grateful that I did go to Texas and not get student loans because it just had this amazing knock on effect. You know, I was able to start my first business when I was very young and I think it was much easier for me to do that because I wasn't burdened with student loans. So I do feel incredible. I think that's such an incredible gift you can give your kids if you're able to for them not to have student loans.

Absolutely. That's such a burden. When you get out of college and when you get your first job and you start making money, that money goes straight back to the government. Your parents told you that you would go to state school. We pay for it. Right. And then you, as a good daughter, a smart daughter, decided to go in state. A lot of kids don't. They decided that they want to go out of state just because they want a different experience. That was such a gift your parents gave to you, you were able to accept and ran with it the way they grew up. How did that affect your thought about money?

I think, you know, for my mom in particular, it is always a challenge for her to spend any money. And now they are retired and now they do have money to spend because they were, you know, so careful with money their whole lives. And it's definitely been something like she's, she's needed to overcome is just allowing herself to spend anything. So I think, you know, most of how I was raised around money, I wouldn't change any of it. Like I said, my parents always taught me, you know, pay for, don't have a car loan, like, don't have any credit card debt. And we always lived that way. And my parents shared that with me, which I think is great. I know a lot of families, maybe they didn't have credit card debt, but the kids had no idea one way or the other. It was just never talked about. But if there is like one thing that I've had to maybe consciously change a little bit, it is that kind of scarcity side of, you know, making myself get rid of things I don't need anymore or like that I don't have to eat the food in the fridge, in the fridge just because we bought it, even if it's like kind of going bad. Like it's okay just to throw it away, you know, that kind of stuff.

And how did you make peace with that?

Just recognizing that it just doesn't. If I let's. If I waste $5, right? If I, like, buy some food and I don't want it and I just throw it away and I just wasted that $5, someone else doesn't get the $5. It's gone. You know what I mean? So I think just kind of looking at it rationally, bought something you didn't want or spent too much money or whatever. What's happened has happened. What's done is done. It doesn't give you the money back. It doesn't magically donate it to someone else because you ate the moldy bread, right? So trying to look at the situation, sometimes you want to make better decisions next time about what you did. But also, I just try to view it like the point of money is to be traded for other things. Right. Money itself does not have a utility. I don't need. I don't need to hang on. You know, I am naturally, like a good saver, which is great and has served me. But for someone like me, sometimes you have to push yourself a little bit to remind yourself, like, okay, there's. There's no point in it just sitting there. The point is to trade it, to spend it.

That's very interesting because a lot of times we. We have those beliefs that were passed down to us, and we just keep them and we never question them to see if they're service right? Now, that concept that if you waste the money, you're not taken away from anybody, that money's not going to anybody. It's just gone. It's just a transaction. Doesn't mean that you're bad or you're good as a person. You're just. You just made that decision. It was just a behavior, a transaction. Do better next time. I really like that. Did you have a specific experience that you can remember while growing up, maybe as a teenager, college student, that you. That really helped you in your financial journey?

A lot of it for me was like, you know, I was raised with a good foundation, and then because I was interested in entrepreneurship, that also made me very interested in finances. You know, I think those things overlap because people get interested in entrepreneurship to make money is a big, you know, a big reason definitely why I was interested because I didn't want. Want my income to be capped by a job. Right. I wanted to be able to make as much money as I wanted. To. I got really interested in personal finance when I was about 20 years old. Do you know the book your Money or your Life? Yeah, it's like, it's. It's kind of an old book that people don't read anymore. It was kind of like before, you know, the four hour work week, a book about kind of taking back freedom in your life. And I read that book when I was 28, and it did have a big impact on me. I loved reading Susie Orman's books, you know, for a great, like, financial education. That was something that I got very interested in. You know, started my own retirement accounts when I was. That was definitely pivotal for me, kind of educating myself in that way in really deciding that I could determine my own financial future.

Sometimes we have to find those resources to increase our knowledge and our understanding. Right. I'm glad you came across that book because you already had a strong foundation, it sounds like, so then you just built from there.

Did.

Did spirituality play any role in your life in terms of your finances?

No, I don't. I don't think so. I mean, my parents weren't very religious, and I wasn't really raised with any religious beliefs around money, so I don't think that was really a thing for me.

Other than your parents, do you have anybody else that had an impact on you with your money?

When I was first starting out in learning about finances and learning about entrepreneurship, it really impacted me just to meet people who were running their own business, you know, to see that. And. And I'm not even talking about anything crazy, huge or successful. But what's interesting about my family is that even though my dad technically ran his own business, it wasn't. It wasn't a financial endeavor for him in the sense that, like, he's an architect. He loved being an architect. He wasn't out build a large business. It wasn't a financial motive for him meeting other people who ran businesses. And we're doing really well financially, and I was very lucky that some of them helped to mentor me. When I was first starting my first freelance business, I just. I'm a big believer that if somebody else has done it, I can do it too. Which is, you know, part of the reason I like doing podcasts and other things, so that people can listen to me and say, oh, she did it, then I can do it too. So, yeah, I think that was. That was important for me.

So your dad did not have that goal of building bigger business? Do you have that?

Yes, it has been something important to me to build Larger businesses specifically to build businesses that I can sell. So I did have a business that I sold to a previous business partner. And then after that I had a social media scheduling tool called Meet Edgar that I did have a seven figure exit for. So that was always a goal of mine to have that larger financial independence.

Do you still carry some of that you learn from the mentor?

They just helped me kind of learn the basic financial understanding of a business in a sense. Yeah. I mean, that's something that, you know, you need every day in a business.

And it seems like you applying the knowledge not only you learned, but you been using that and developing your own understanding, your own way to do things. Now let's talk about your kids. What do you teach your kids about money?

I definitely am encouraging of my kids to be some sort of entrepreneur, which sometimes my husband says not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. You have to remember they. They might not want to, you know, but I do believe not everyone wants to run a business or a larger business. But in my perfect world, everyone would know a freelance skill. You might not even want to do it as your main thing. But I think it's so valuable to understand how easy it is to trade a skill for money, no matter what that skill is. That's kind of something that anyone can do and I think it's a great backup plan for anyone to do, whether it's something you want to do for extra money, whether you're in between jobs and you're like, oh, I can start, you know, freelancing now for a few months to hold me over. My kids are still pretty young, they don't know that much about money yet. But we do talk to them a lot about how our business earns money. How we earn money. Our family earns money from the business, not from us working directly. Like we created this business and now this business runs and puts money into our family. So I do want them to understand that concept.

Do you work with your husband at the business?

I do, yeah.

And how is that partnership that it's.

We work together really well. It's not for everyone, but we have very different skills. So he's a software developer, so he does the actual product building and I do the marketing side and the business side. So our skills complement each other really well.

That's. I was going to ask you if you created the softwares or if you had someone. Now I know your husband works with you and then you guys and you market. Now I know your kids are little, but do you talk to them about Making purchases when you're at the store, do you take those opportunities to talk about money? How, how do they take it?

Right now they're five and nine and so they do get. In the uk, you call it pocket money, usually like an allowance. They get a pound a week for pocket money. And honestly my 9 year old understands it and my 5 year old really, really doesn't. But it would be too sad if we didn't give it to her as well. So it is interesting seeing how they're different, you know, both because of their age and also because of their kind of proclivity. My 9 year old is definitely a big saver. He would, he really wanted a Nintendo Switch, so he didn't ever want to spend any money because he said he was saving for his Nintendo Switch. Even though we explained to him it'd be many years when you only get a pound a week. They're very expensive. And we did end up getting a family Nintendo Switch so he could, he could stop saving for that. But he was very diligent and he was very motivated, you know, had a goal, right? Yeah. It didn't like bother him that he didn't spend his money because he was saving up for it. Where my 5 year old, as soon as she finds out she has a pound, she starts frantically looking around, she's like, what's a what, what? Here is a pound. Like, how can I, how can I spend it? So she, she is kind of definitely more of a natural spender and I think she's also just still a bit young to get the concept of, of holding on to it. I think, you know, we'll continue to give our kids pocket money, we'll continue to increase the amount as, as, as it's appropriate and as they age. Yeah, I've heard people have different methods of things like, you know, requiring their kids to save a certain amount or do a certain amount for charity. I guess we can see if that feels right as they, as they get older. We keep it, we keep it simple for now.

It's really good that you see the tendencies that they have. And then you have to use different approach with both because if you use the same approach, you're not going to help one or the other. Right?

Yeah.

Or you might help one, not the other.

Right.

Because they're little, they listen to. Do they ever say, go against where you say about spending the money? Because if you're, you're a younger one, she wants to spend money in whatever she sees. Do you ever talk to her and say, hey, Would you rather have that instead or.

Yeah. And she had a good lesson recently where our library has a local shop. When you first go into the library, where there's toys and books and stuff. And so, you know, when we go in the library, she's always wanting to buy something. And you could tell she was in that mode where she just wanted to buy anything. And we had hadn't, you know, she hadn't spent any money for a while, so I think she had like five pounds. And so she was. So she's like, what is five pounds? You know, what is five pounds in the shop? And so she found something that we knew that she wouldn't really play with and she wouldn't really like, but because it was the thing that she found that cost £5, she bought it. And as soon as she got home, she said, oh, it's a dud. She didn't, she didn't like it. She wasn't glad that she'd bought it, but she wasn't like, too upset about it. She understood, you know, I, I think it was good. She understood that she had kind of made a mistake, but, but also that it wasn't the end of the world and she would keep getting, you know, a pound a week and build her reserve back up. So we do try to talk to them about that, but we do also let them make their own decisions, you know. So when, when she wanted to buy it, we said, I don't think, I don't think you're going to be happy with this purchase, but if, if it's what you want to buy, we'll let. You do have limits. If they were to buy a ton of candy, we'd be like, you can't eat all the candy right now. So usually they just think, okay, well, then I'll just buy one piece and I'll save the rest of my money for later since I can't eat it now. Anyway. So, yeah, we try to advise them, but I do think it' really helpful for kids. I think when they do make their own mistake, like spend the money and regret it, they learn it much more deeply than you telling them, no, you're not allowed to buy it.

When you were growing up, did your dad gave you any kind of projects or things that you could do to earn some money or to learn from his business?

Yeah, so I would help in his business sometimes when I was a teenager, when I was old enough, you know, doing filing or typing things up. Honestly, I don't even remember if he, I think he did pay Me, I think he would pay me for doing that, but it was pretty limited amount that.

Would you consider doing that with your kids?

I would love to do that with my kids, actually. Yeah. I'm kind of. I'm kind of waiting for them to be old enough to be able to help. I would, I would really love for them to work in my business so that they can kind of, you know, see behind the scenes of how a business works. It is something that I'm definitely going to, to heavily encourage and, you know, incentivize financially them working in the business.

Well, and it's also a good opportunity for them to see the connection between work and money and not necessarily the time they spend working, but the value that they're contributing to the, the business.

Absolutely. Yeah.

How do you continue growing your financial understanding?

What do you do now? I'm at a level of wealth that's more than my parents have had, more than anyone else in my family has had. I'm lucky enough to be connected to other entrepreneurs who've also, especially in the software industry. You meet people, software has very good exits, very good multiples. So you meet other people, you know, that have been able to sell their businesses. My finances are definitely very simple. Basically, like put it in index funds. The money that I've made from something.

Traditional, selling my company. Risky.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I found that I'm someone who values my time and some publicity over having a very complex financial setup. Read about, let's say, like fringe ways to save taxes. But then sometimes, sometimes, you know, these rules will change and you have to change your whole setup. And it's very expensive and it's very complicated. And for me, I've decided just not to mess with any of that or live in a much higher tax country than the one that I'm from. K has much higher taxes than the U.S. but I want to live here. And again, that's the point of making money, to spend it, to have a life you want. So, yeah, I've been able to definitely get some like, tips from, from other people that have built wealth. But also I find that there's. People sometimes have this idea that there's a lot of like, secret stuff that goes on once, you know, once you have more money and it's like. No, it's just, it's just kind of the same stuff. Yeah.

The simpler you you keep, the better for you. You're less worried about what's happening and all the, the variables that you cannot control.

Yeah, yeah.

Are you and your husband on the same page with this, this mentality.

Yeah, I mean I'm definitely the one who leads the, the finances and the families. He in the past like has not been a saver like I was, you know, before we got married. But he would actually like work for a, his money, go traveling and not work for a few years and then run out of money and work for a few years again. So he's never been someone who's had any debt, but he's also not someone who like built up his, his wealth, which was something that's always been important to me, even throughout my 20s. He doesn't really save it, but luckily he doesn't spend it either, so he just lets me save it.

Good. Well, there's always one of us that's more administrative and likes to do that kind of stuff and it sounds like it's you and. Yes, but the best thing is that he didn't come with any debt. You already didn't have any debt, so then you don't have that burden to start your marriage. Yeah, so, so rare nowadays people already come with their debts and then that sometimes put a wedge between the husband and the wife. Do you guys have combined finances?

We do, we completely combine our, our finances. I mean we have individual like checking accounts for our day to day everything. Yeah. Everything else is, is combined.

Yes, yes. You are the poster child for debt free life. Who's doing well, who's raising kids. Well, it was, it has been just incredible to get to know you and know your story. Now it didn't seem like you had a really low point with your money, but was there an advice that you could tell someone when they're getting out of high school looking for a career or if they want to open their own business? Is there any advice that you could give to that young woman there?

I think just to choose your career or what you think your career will be because it'll probably change, you know, from what you decide to do when you're 18. That it is important to choose it based on the life you want to have and to be ambitious. You know, a lot of people unfortunately just feel like it's not possible for them to go to college or it's not possible for them to have a higher paying career. But yeah, if it's possible for anyone, then it's possible for, for you too. And it's not important to everyone to make a lot of money and that's, that's okay too. You know, some people choose a career that's just like inherently low pay. Paying and they know what they're in for and, and that's fine. I think it's all about being true to yourself and, and making your own decisions.

Perfect. Thank you so much, Laura. To finish, I have a few rapid fire questions. Whatever comes to mind. Just tell me. Nothing deep. What was the worst financial decision you ever made?

You said nothing deep. I think that's a deep. Okay, I think that's a deep question. I think the worst financial decision I ever made was hanging on to a house for too long. On the first house that I ever bought was a really big financial milestone for me. I mean, I think, you know, it is for most people buying your first home. And this was like on a street that I had always dreamed of owning a home on. It was, you know, a really huge accomplishment for me. And it was in Los Angeles, where I was living at the time. But then we ended up moving out of Los Angeles and we kept the house and we're like, okay, we'll make it a vacation rental and then, you know, we can come back and like have, have it as a second home. But then we ended up moving to the uk so it's like, okay, we're not gonna, you know, we have small kids, like, we're not gonna come back on, on holiday to California. That's not gonna happen. And my husband was clear, like, actually as soon as we moved outta California, my husband was like, we should just sell the house. But I had a strong emotional attachment to the house and I realized that it had been such a big accomplishment for me to buy it. I was feeling like it would be a failure to sell it. Oh, okay. If it was such a big one to buy, then it must be a fail to. Took me a few years to realize. No, the accomplishment of buying it isn't diminished by selling it. I still get to hold onto that accomplishment. I don't have to actually own the house.

And you probably made some equity money there, huh?

Ended up being kind of a wash. Honestly, I realized I was kind of confusing the emotions I had about it with the financial decision of if we should sell or keep it.

Right? Yeah, that's, that's important because the connection that we have, the emotion that created the moment, that accomplishment that I made it. Once you separated the emotion from what you think and was clear for you to sell, what's the next one? Let's see. What was the most useless thing that you ever bought?

You sent me this question beforehand. When I read about it, I thought about all the junk I bought when I Had a new baby. Because I think, you know, for me, like, when you have a new baby, how. What, what do I do? How do I get the baby to go to sleep?

First one, right?

Yes, the first one. Yeah. I didn't buy all this stuff for the second one, but the first one, you're so desperate that you're like scrolling Amazon being like, they told me this, you know, this bear will make my baby fall asleep. Be cuddles a bear or whatever. So, yeah, I look back and I. I think I bought just. Yeah. The most useless junk, having a baby.

And all the little clothes they get that the baby doesn't even get to wear. Right.

Yeah, yeah.

You spent so much on the first three months and you don't. God, the baby's gonna grow better, have more clothes that size. And then the last one, what was something that you bought that turned out to be better than you expected?

So something that's top of mind now is this office that I'm in, I share it with a few friends and I was kind of like worried about doing that. What do I do when I need to record a podcast or like, how's it gonna work out? But it's actually been a really great use of money that's really enhanced my life to be able to come in regularly and see my friends. Friends and have time together. I was kind of nervous about it. Like, I wasn't sure if it was the right move. And it's. It's turned out to be a great use of money, actually.

That's great. Were you running your business from home before?

Usually just rented my own office. That's just me. And I have liked a lot of things about that. And so that's why I was kind of nervous, like sharing. Sharing my space with other people. Yeah.

But it turned out to be great.

Yeah. Yeah.

So to finish, tell us a little bit about projects that you have coming up. Tell us about your social media handle and things where people can find you if they're looking for a CRM for coaches.

You can find us@paperbell.com p a p e r b e l l.com and I write a blog at my name, Laura roeder.com or you can find me on Twitter @lkr.

We're gonna add all these links for you guys in the show notes. What do you usually write about, Laura?

I write about entrepreneurship, different topics, about running a business, selling my business. Yeah.

Leadership and things like that. So that's important. All of you that are listening, that have their own business, business make sure that you follow Laura and read what she has to write because you know it's going to be a great advice. All right, Laura, thank you so much for spending this time with me, with us.

Thank you.

I'll see you guys in the next episode of the money's not your problem podcast.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. I want to take a moment to extend a special invitation to all of our listeners. If you're ready to finally become good with money, both in your pocket and your mind, then I want to introduce you to a transformative opportunity, the Chief Financial Mom Academy. Our program is designed specifically for working moms of faith who are tired of feeling overwhelmed by their finances, constantly juggling priorities and feeling like they're always broke. You will learn how to manage your money effectively, build wealth and achieve your long term goals through practical lessons, personalized guidance and a supportive community. If you're ready to say goodbye to financial stress and hello to financial freedom, I encourage you to join us@strasbourgcoaching.com joincfm Again, it's strasbourgcoaching.com J O I N C FM. Take the first step towards a brighter future for yourself and for your family today. Thank you again for listening and remember, the future future you who is good with money is in your hands. We'll see you on the Chief Financial Mom Academy.

Ate Brevio Brigada.