Ep.7 Chief Financial Mom UT Brazilian Festival's Matilde Wosnjuk

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[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Hey there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the money is not your problem podcast. I have a special interview for you today. You're gonna hear my conversation with my friend Mathieu Duvoznuk. And she is also a powerhouse of a woman. She is a chief financial mom for sure. She has been married with Tony for over 25 years. She has four amazing boys. And she also is very active in the Brazilian community here, here in Utah, actually all over the United States. She's been everywhere. She is the executive director of Viva Brazil Cultural Center. Viva Brazil is a non profit organization who runs several projects around the country, especially here in Utah. The most famous one is the Utah Brazilian Festival that happens every September. And it was already the 18th year that she's been doing this. But today we're not going to be talking about her accomplishments and all the projects she has with Viva Brazil. Today we're going to be talking about her journey as a chief financial mom, as a stay home mom, supporting her husband and raising her kids. We're going to be talking about her financial journey. All right, so. Hi, Matuji, how are you doing today?

Hello, Madeleine. Such a pleasure to be here today with you.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Thank you. So let's start, but just tell us a little bit about your life growing up.

So I grew up in Brazil, so Paulo, my mom and dad. And we were seven brothers and sisters, five girls and two boys. I'm the oldest of the seven. And my father was the, the provider of the house. My mom stayed at home with us, although she had little projects that she always did to, you know, give some extra money in the house, like selling some products or like Avon or Avon meetings. We love those. We love those. It was so much fun together with our neighbors and seeing my mom getting the commissions of everything that she got, plus the little prizes. So we, we grew up in this environment until we know, until we were adults. My mom was still, still involved in some kind of project or new product. So it was cool to see how she always added to the family budget.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Great. So how was looking back at your past, how was the money situation in your house and how did your family look at money?

Well, my family life with money when I was growing up and I was a child was very frugal. There was never an excess of, you know, money or things being bought with money. Everybody was, we always had everything. But money wasn't something that was taken for granted.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: There was no, lots of going out to eat or traveling.

No, no. Going out was always a special treat. It was always Something special. It happened. It happened once in a while, but it was really a special, a big deal. And my father, he always had the habit of bringing pizza home, and we love those things. So he always, he always support. They were always special. And then it was like a big family, seven kids. So everything we did was really, was.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Always fun and everything was kind of planned out.

Everything was kind of planned out. Yes, it was.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: What was your dad's job?

He was an accountant. He used to work in, you know, gas stations, companies. He always worked for those. But he was an accountant by, you know, he didn't go to school for that. He learned with life. So he was very. Well, he was very good with money and numbers.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: And then later on, did he have his own office or did he go.

Work to another business? After a couple of years, I remember being a young adult and he opened his own business. He had a. It was a company that. There was a distribution of soft drinks, I mean, all kinds of drinks. And he had a deposit. So, you know, he would sell for the, like the. Yeah, warehouse and he would sell to the local, you know, supermarkets and bars and snack places. It was fun.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: All right. And did you. Did you see them talking about money at home or did they pass any kind of beliefs to you that money was a bad thing or money was hard or.

No, we have like a financial education at home. And I mean, I think it was a. It was a part of, you know, my father's education. So, you know, like, they didn't have that from their parents, so we didn't have that too. But to be fair, I remember being very young and they would teach us to put the money in the little pig banks. And then when, when it was filled, we would go to the bank and deposit in the. In the savings and would get a little portion to buy things for us. So it was very simp. But I remember doing that and, you know, somehow causative impact in us. We thought that was important.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: How about. Did you ever help your dad with anything or your mom with anything?

Like, financially?

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Yeah, like. Like working with them in some kind of financial matters? Man.

No, I mean, when we started working, you know, in Brazil a couple of years ago, not now, we could start working when we were 14 years old. And then I remember all the money that I made, it was just mine. Like I didn't have to, you know, help left any financial or anything. And it was very. It wasn't a lot of money. You know, it's like a minimum wage salary. But when you are 14, 15, you know, it go long. It goes a long ways.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: So is there. So that lack of talking about money or that lack of financial literacy lessons, did that affect how you thought about money?

Well, in a way, yes, Because I would observe, you know, other families around or friends around, and then I would see, you know, how did they get. How. How did they get where they were? And then I always thought, and I was taught by my parents that we had to go to school and graduate so we would have better chances in life. And my father, he invested in me and my sisters with English lessons. We went to a private language school in Brazil. I grew up in the ABC area, San Bernardo, Santa Vetan. Most of my life I lived in San Bernardo Campo. And we went to the language school for many years. And my father thought that that would put us ahead in the market. And for me, it really did. It worked very well because I was still 17 years old when the, you know, my, my skills with the English language put me in another level professionally.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Great. So that's that. It's a good segue for my next question. Was there a defining moment or a defining experience that helped you in your financial journey?

Yes. So when I started working, I was 14, 15 years old, and I had this, as I told you, this minimum wage salary. And I remember crying because I told my mom, I'll be 18 in three years, and even if I save all my money, I won't have money to buy a car. And that made me so upset. And I was crying like, no matter what I do, the money will never be enough. And then my mom said, no, calm down, because with time and experience, you're going to be able to make more money. So just wait, you're still too young. And then I remember one time I used to work in a company. There was a leather representation. They, they sold, they sold leather shoes in, you know, for the whole Brazil. And at the time there was a exhibit, you know, expo called Coromodas. You know, it was leather and fashion. And they had this beautiful stand at the IMB convention place. And in the middle of one of it was a whole week thing. So this lady, an American, she came to our booth and then she was very interested in our product and, and she started speaking English. Nobody in the movies spoke English. And then I started helping this lady because I could speak English. And then she, she bought a lot of things in the store. So my, my, the bosses and my manager was very pleased and at one point, and he was very proud that he had a employee that could speak English. At one point she asked me if I could accompany her as a translator because she needed help. And then I told her I can't because I'm working in this stand with my company. And then my, my manager said, no, go ahead, you can, you can, you know, stay the rest of the day with her and even tomorrow if she needs help. And that was very interesting because she paid me a very good money for the day that I worked with her. And then somehow that spread know like word of mouth that I could do that job. And from that time on, I started working a lot as a. Either a English teacher or as a translator for people I interpreter.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: So that sounds like she was a very influential person in your development.

Right.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Do you think there are other people in your life that helped you with your financial, financial journey formally?

No, I don't remember. I just remember observing people and, and it took some time to 2002 when I, when I, when I was 15 years old and I started going to the church that I go now, there was a place that I learned a lot about financial education and self sufficiency. And self sufficiency and that, and that aligned very well with the way I thought about life. Because although I tell that formerly my parents didn't give me any, you know, financial education, but their example was really strong. You know, they were very frugal with money. They never spent more than they made. They always, they always kept the financial life in the family very calm, very, you know, very clear. You know, how can I say it was always fair.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Do you still carry with you something that you learn from these people or this person?

Yes, I mean, you know, our leaders in the church, we used to go to this, our youth group or your youth organization. And every week we would have some lessons about, you know, our personal health, about beauty and, and about spiritual things, but also about money. They will teach us how we should go to school, how we should work, how we should save, how we should, how we should help the poor and needy. So the tithing is something very important in our church. And I feel the good that we do with our tithing, tithing all over the world. So those were very valuable lessons.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: So that sounds like your spirituality have kind of influenced you in your journey. Is that true?

Yes, it is true. Is it is. If everything that I grew up thinking and observing in the world brought me to that point when I was 15 years old and all the, all the things that I learned in church, it was really aligned with the way that I thought that I was living my life, including the financial, the self sufficiency. It was something that I always thought was important since I was young.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Great. So was there any negative experience related to money in your past that you had to, like, reconcile or. And how did you do that?

Well, I think when we started, when you make little money, you don't. I mean, you're not really risky with things. But I remember when I saved a little bit of money, enough to buy a car. And I bought this old car because that's what I could afford and the financing was very hard. And then I asked my father for help and he said, no, there's no way I'm gonna buy a car because I wouldn't be able to afford it. And then he didn't help me at all. He wasn't supporting me at all with the car. So I thought to myself, well, I'm gonna go and buy the car by myself. And that's what I did. And my father got really mad with me about it.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: When you showed up with the car.

I showed up with the car. First, because it was an old car. Yes, that's what I could afford. Second, that I shouldn't have got the car because now I have to take care of the car. It's going to be a lot of money. And. But in the end, I think he really got mad because I did it without, without him.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Was there also a situation with your mom and your dad about a semester of school that you, you didn't have? That's a great story you gotta tell.

I remember the officer had the car. After I got the car, things are a little bit tight because, you know, you are young and you have no idea how much money you spend with a car. Because I had no idea that the car would, you know, break or. Yeah. Cost so much money with the, the, the licenses and everything and insurance. And I didn't get that from my parents, you know, formally, so it didn't come to my mind. So sometimes I would just use the car on the weekends because, you know, I, I was afraid of breaking or somebody hitting me or anything happening to the car. And on the weekend we, we would split the, the gas with friends. So that made life easier. But I remember one semester at college, I didn't have enough money to pay. And then I told my mom that I didn't know what to do. And then she said, well, I'm going to talk to your father. Maybe he can, you know, you can borrow some money from him. Because it wasn't very. My parents didn't help us financially. So everything we had in the house, the family, you know, they provided for us. But anything extra we wanted in life we had to do by ourselves. And you know, it was, it was like seven kids. And my, my father had a decent salary, but he just thought that everybody should work and get your money to do your own things. So my mom said, I'm going to talk to your father about college and the need for, the need for extra money. So she spoke to my father and then he came to the room to talk to me and said, I see that you are very sad. You don't need to cry because you don't have money, enough money for college this semester. But I was thinking, you've been studying for so many years, you know, you already studied enough. You don't have to continue going to college, you know, if you don't have money. Just stop. Then my mom was listening from the door and she came like flying, like I thought she was gonna jump over my father's neck. And he said, is this any kind of counsel you're gonna give your daughter to quit school? And yes. I was like, daddy, like, so anyways, he, I, I was able to borrow the money for him, but a couple of months later, he was like, okay, do you have the money already? So I paid him back.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: And how do you, did you have to reconcile this just like, how do you know, just be at peace with those things from the past?

Well, this is interesting. I, I'm not a kind of person who hold grudges. And so those, even those negative things that I, you know, I look back and I see it never, it didn't really cause a, a negative effect on me. But I always kept in mind that when I had my children, I would help them financially. Not really giving them money, but giving them knowledge so they can, you know, 10 steps ahead of, you know, whatever. I was at their age, so I think that's the fact though they learned, they taught us well with the example. But I thought that was important to have more information.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Right, and that's perfect because my next question for you is now let's, let's get to the time where you have kids. So you're, you were a stay home mom for most of your married life when the kids were growing up. Right. And what did you teach your kids about money?

Well, we really started early, you know, they were very young and we were already telling them about money because we wanted them to have a healthy relationship with money. We wanted them to understand that you can give Money like you can work, you can develop your talents and you can reach things. You know, being in Brazil, where things were, were really hard because the minimum wage follows you for many years in your life until you are really able to make money after school or if you have a special talent. But I wanted them to understand life and when they were younger, I want them to be able to, well, to make more money. To have the mindset, yes, to have that mindset that yes, I can live a good life with the money that I have and I can prepare in the future to have more and have done fine things that I want in life. So I remember for you to have an idea how was the know, how was the money and the teaching of money when they were literally really young? When my oldest One, Wheels, was 6 years old, he was going to kindergarten first grade. There was this special class in, in California. We lived in California for a couple of years. After my husband finished finish his master's degree, he got a job there and then went back to town a couple of years later. So we went to class and the kindergarten, first grade class, it was a combined class, very small class with kids who had know, who learned sound things were accelerated. It was an accelerated program. And Wilson was there. And the interesting things is that the teacher, she was also teaching the kids notions of finances and dealing with money. And I was a volunteer in the class many times. And I would see how they would, you know, they would do some activities and give money. How they would, you know, there was always a way that they would give money in the class. So when they had a $100 with their, you know, little fake money, pretend money in the class, the teacher would ask them what they would do with the hundred dollars. So that day I wasn't in class, but when I went to school to pick up Wilson, the teacher was waiting for me outside. And that happened many times. She was always waiting for me outside to say something that Wilson did and was very interesting. He was, he is now. He was a very smart kid, but he's a very smart kid. And then she told me, I'm doing this class today with the kids because they reached $100. And then I asked them, what do you guys are going to do with your money? And everybody told what they're going to spend their money with. And when I asked Wilson what he want to do with his $100, he said, I want to save another $100 and another $100 and another $100 until I have $1,000 and let me tell you, in 25 years of teaching, I never had a child give me an answer like that. So yes, we start them early.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: That's awesome. So did they usually end up following you guys advices on money or, or was there like differences of opinion and how to spend the money or what to do?

Well, I can say that most of the. Yes, that they followed most of the things that we taught them with money. We touch them with experience, we touch them with, with life situations and we taught them as books. So we had this, you know, this weekly family home evening where we would teach, sit down and talk about, you know, do scriptures from the, the Bible or the other sacred books that we have. And we would also talk about finances. And they were still young. And I follow David Ramsey and other authors, but the David Ramsey was. There was one for kids that was a very easy language for the boys. And every week we would go through some points in the book and so they knew what we expect from them or what would be smart for them to do. And they followed most of those things until they became young adults. So the one thing that we didn't agree, but they did and they do well because we taught them to be wise about money is credit cards. We didn't think was necessary to have credit cards at a young age or I mean it's not necessary to have a young, a credit card with all the things that we learned that we touch them. But the, the culture, the social culture teach them that it's important. That's how you're gonna build your credit. And, and then they have all these extra things like, you know, extra mileage so you can go on a trip. And that's one thing that we didn't agree. We didn't have like a big discussion about it because it took, they were very careful when telling us that they would like to have this so they can get points so they can get the credit. And then I told them, well, as long as you guys pay your credit cards and your guys never paying the extra fees, what can we do? They are adults now, so. But they are, they are very good with money in general. Good, good.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: So you said that when you were raising the boys, you start reading more and learning more. How do you continue to grow your financial understanding now?

Well, things change with time, right? So there's always something that we can update. And nowadays with YouTube channels and online courses, I'm always trying to learn something new. Not only, you know, because, you know, the, the homemaking and the family finances, it's something when the kids are little and then it became something else when they are teenagers and then when they are adults and you are, you know, you keep falling with them like oh, so hard. The finances, are you still saving? How's your savings? And you show interest, interest in letting them know that you are still supporting them. And there's this new thing going on, this new investment and, and they ended up going after those, those things by themselves. I have now that I know my children are now 24, 23, 21 and 20. And my oldest one, he is finishing school and he is in the financial world now and he works with investment and no debt.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Huh. And he, he didn't take any student loans, right?

No, no, my kids got paid in student loans. There was something that we really talked about it. At some point they were tempted with some scholarships that would pay like 30% but it was like something too expensive. But they got very smart about that, even to give counsel to their friends when they think differently. That's awesome.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Very good. So now thinking back of you, when you're with the young kids and you're supporting your husband, your husband's going to work, you're mainly at home. If someone is going through the same kind of phase right now, a mom out there that's at home with the kids and want to help them, what advice would you give them to help them in their financial life right now?

Okay, so the advice I'd give them today. Well, first of all, 26 years ago when I started my family life and family financial life, things were really different. The economy was different. You could buy a house and have just one, you know, one salary in the house and I could stay home with my kids because that was something that we, we planned together, that we were gonna do. Although I, I had a little hobby that turned, that was turned into a business while the kids were growing. And that was very cool because I could add financial to the family somehow. It wasn't really part of the budget of the family, but it was this extra money that I could expand with, you know, fun things with the kids or just, you know, extra things that we didn't have to worry about taking out of the budget. And it was very good. But one important counsel advice is really to start with your husband, like a long term plan, what you want to do with your money and financially what you guys want to go and grow together. Today with economy is really hard, you know, let's say today to buy a house with just one salary when you are starting your career. You know, we're still studying, you don't have this dream job. So I think it's important that you find a way as a wife, especially if you're going to have kids, to find a way to, how can I say, add to the financial of the house, especially to avoid frustrations. Because when you start your family life, you know, money's tight. So it is important that you plan. Like how can I add or have an extra money that I can do the things that I want and that I like. This is one thing. And the other thing is prepare to the change in life. It could get to the point where you have more money that you planned. And it's good that you have a plan what to do with that because, you know, money goes like this. If you don't plan, it's gone. It's easy to spend. It's very easy to spend. And also be prepared to. For you to get to one point of your life where you don't have enough money and you know, really learn how to deal with the frustrations and how you can do better. Because, because, you know, financial life is a. Is something that is always changing and sometimes not just inside our home. We depend on the economy and whatever happens in the world. Yeah.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: It's good to be prepared, right?

It's good to be prepared.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Yeah. And I remember you saying that you would tell the daughters of your friends that are getting married to cultivate that go to school and learn things so they can do and add to the family, right? Yes.

Because even, you know, the truth is if when we have children, it's harder, you know, to be in the, you know, working. It has to be really planned because, you know, we get extra tired because it's a second, you know, it's a second job. You know, you are working in the office and then you have your kids and your life take care. So it is important that you develop talents though. You can do things that you know how to do. Especially creative.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Right.

Especially here in America, in the United States, that there's so many opportunities of making money by the hour. So if you have a talent, you know, if you good at organizing things, if you, you know, if you do anything with beauty, you know, like hair and eyebrows or if you are an accountant, anything that you can do. Just keep in mind that you can make an extra money with a few hours during the week and that goes long ways. Awesome.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: This has been such a great experience life and this conversation. So good. There's so much wisdom there, right. And see that how you manage your mind this is so important, right? So to end our conversation, I have two parts. One is our rapid fire question. Are you ready for it?

Let's do it. Okay.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Just tell me whatever comes to mind that you can remember. All right. What was the worst financial decision you ever made in your life?

When we sold our first house, we were supposed to sell it. We were moving from Utah to San Diego because my husband finished his master's degree. And we were having, you know, a discussion, a kind of a fight because I didn't want to sell the property and he wanted to sell the property and then I want to rent the property. He what did I want to do Deal, you know, as being a landlord, a long distance landlord, long distance. So he said, when we come back, we'll buy another property. We had a very nice one acre property. And I told him I by the books that I'm reading because I was doing a lot of study on real estate, we shouldn't sell this house. And when we come back, you know, the real estate be higher. And then, you know, we don't think about it, say, no, that's okay. When we come back, we do it. And it didn't happen. When we come back, we're not able to afford another one acre property. So that was the worst financial decision we had in our lives. And we recognized that.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Yeah. Because that was a prime real estate over there by the temple here in Utah. When you have a property by the temples, they're worth much more money. So you sold really fast. Right. You were able to sell super fast. But then you know that the value could have been there. Right. All right, next. What was the most useless thing that you ever bought?

Oh, my goodness. I don't want to talk about it. You got to. Okay. I spent a lot of money in a vacuum. In a vacuum that I rarely use because it's so heavy that I always go to my cheap one that's very light and it's a good one. But you know, when I have to do that deep clean the house twice a year, that's the one I use. But it was really know I shouldn't have done it.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: All right, and then the last one, what was something that you bought that turned out to be better than you expected?

Oh, couches. Every time I wear a couch, I think it was a good deal. So I love couches.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: That's awesome. All right, so to end this is our last part. Tell us a little bit about any projects that Viva Brazil is involved right now that you're preparing or that you just finished and. And then how people can learn more about you.

Okay, so I have a nonprofit called Viva Brazil Cultural event. At Viva Brazil Cultural center, we do cultural events, especially not Brazilian events and everything related to Brazil. It started as a hobby when I had my first child because, you know, I had this talent of doing events and planning and planning and gathering people. So. So it started as a hobby and now like 18 years later, 20 years later, it's my small business. And so it was nice to be able to add to the family budget through a talent. It was never a 9 to 5 work was always seasonal project. And with time we became well known and I had more things happening. So it was a great thing. And you can find us on Instagram Utah Brazilian festival or my personal Instagram Matildi W M A T I L D E w Matildiw or on Facebook or my personal Matilda Shayla, Boston.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Awesome. Thank you so much, Matthew. This has been a pleasure. I'll see you guys next week for another episode of the money is not your problem podcast.

Sam.