Cody Butler Teaches A Lesson To A Man Who Thinks He’s Taking Responsibility

Today's session features a married man in active separation who says he's done the work, taken responsibility, and understands exactly where he went wrong. He believes the breakdown comes down to emotional safety, communication, and past circumstances. But as Cody starts digging into the conversation, a very different pattern begins to emerge. Every answer sounds accountable on the surface, yet underneath, something keeps blocking real ownership. As Cody continues to press and uncover the truth, it becomes clear the problem isn't what he thinks it is. And the reason his wife has pulled away after 14 years has nothing to do with the story he's been telling himself.

Give me, give me the brief version of the background. What's brought you to this point?

Well, look, to be honest, from watching all of your programs, I'm, I'm pretty much your stereotypical person. I thought that I was doing everything correct. I was fixing the airplane in all the wrong areas from one of your articles. Look, I failed in regards to emotional security and safety. Never been a violent person, always thought that that was being safe and secure. I failed in the areas of not listening to the— I was listening to the mechanism.

What's the issue in the marriage, brother? What's the issue in the marriage? What's breaking down?

My wife and I are currently separated. She is avoiding the divorce legal side of things and wants the time and space to figure out where she's at. I've heard those terrible words, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you." So, you know, I'm at that point where you get to the end of the road and you realize, "I screwed up." You know, as much as I had good intentions, they didn't, uh, turn into good deeds. Um, I, uh, my wife is, uh, very guarded, um, always has been, not just with me but with everyone. Both of us had a, a rough childhood, um, and we've carried those issues through consciously and subconsciously into our marriage. Um, and unfortunately, you know, like I say, fixing the airplane in the wrong areas. I thought that one, I had done my work, but this has shown me I hadn't. And I also felt that I was providing that safety for my wife, whereas I clearly wasn't. I wouldn't be here otherwise, you know. Do you have any kids? Yeah, I do. I have an amazing 11-year-old boy. We had issues that came along with that and some tumultuous times through the postnatal and stuff like that. Changed a lot of my lifestyle. I ended up being a stay-at-home father and became very isolated. I lost myself. I lost my identity as a worker. So I became very clingy and needy to my wife, embarrassing as it is to say. You know, yeah, I could go on for hours, man, but we didn't meet at the Frosty Freeze, that's for sure.

Yeah, yeah. So if I asked— if I spoke to her, what would she say is the reason she's leaving?

Um, my wife will tell you that she's, um, she's unhappy. We've actually just spoken just before this meeting, and, um, she keeps telling me, remember, um, that both of us had a role to play in it, which, uh, yes, I agree with, but I take full responsibility because, uh, my— what's she unhappy with? Within herself. Um, she's sort of dealing with, um— I hate to put labels on things, but She avoids emotions a lot, um, and, um, always has from day one, uh, with family members, everything, you know.

I know that you say women like to talk, um, you're deflecting all responsibility here, Jared.

I own 100% responsibility.

No, you're not though, you're not, brother. You're not owning it 100%. You're saying I own it, but it's her emotions fault, it's what she is, it's Postmates, like you're blaming it on everything.

Uh, not really. I, I, I see what you're saying and I agree with it, yes, but, um, it's more the circumstances around it. I, I own it because, um, I, uh, see my failure.

You are nothing, Jared. You've just, you've just said I agree with you, but I don't agree with you. You're, you're saying I'm doing the work, I'm doing this, doing that, but actually you're blaming everything but yourself.

Fair enough. Yeah, I, I said that.

You're saying that she's not a human being? She doesn't—

I believe 100% she's a human being. Um, I believe that, uh, that, uh, here's the problem, here's the problem.

Your marriage is in collapse. She's left you. You have no idea what you're doing and you're arguing with me about it.

I'm not arguing, sir.

You are arguing, brother. You are. You absolutely— so you don't even know when you're arguing?

Okay, I take that. I'm not—

if I say I'm arguing with you and you go, no, I'm not, what is that? What is that?

Arguing, right?

You, you can't even get one sentence beyond me telling you that I'm out— you're arguing with me before arguing with me.

I understand.

And you've listed out already 5 or 6 things that she's the reason why the marriage is failing, while at the same time you say you have, you have, you're shaking your head. So you're not, you're not willing to hear what's going on. You're not willing to hear what's going on is the problem. I can tell you straight away what the problem with your marriage is. Like, you're operating from an I'm good, she's bad paradigm. I had to stop you. You would have, you would have talked for a week about how good you are if I hadn't stopped you.

I, I can understand that. I can understand the way it's come across.

Um, 100% across. It's what it is. See, you're refusing, you're refusing the truth, Jared. You're refusing it. I've given you the truth and you've gone—

I—

you basically said you're wrong when you say, I can understand how it would come across that way. You're saying that's not the case. You're telling me I'm wrong is what you're doing.

Yes.

You're a man who's driven his marriage into collapse while thinking he knows everything about relationships.

I, I understand I know nothing.

I, I know nothing, which is the first true thing you've said on this call. That's the first true thing you've said.

Yeah, I understand.

I mean, if, if I spoke to her and I said I spoke to Jared, he said he's blaming postnatal depression and he's blaming this, and he like— they would piss her off immensely.

Yep, yep.

I haven't even met your wife, but I can already— like, she's going to go, how dare he blame that? No, that's not the problem. The problem is this and this and this and this. That's the problem.

Yeah, my problem is, is that I, uh, I definitely did not listen. I definitely did not, uh, be open. And I can see your point of view there, and it's— I accept it and I own it.

You know, and this is, this is a, a key point here, is how you do anything is how you do everything. If you don't listen to me, you don't listen to anybody, because you're on your best behavior right now. I'm talking to the best version of Jared there is. There is, there is no better version of Jared than this. Your wife doesn't get— what's her name? She doesn't— okay, Crystal. Your wife doesn't get Jared on this good of a behavior.

You're right, I don't, uh, I don't put my walls down to listen. And I try to defend, um, with good intention, but it doesn't come out with good action.

You know, we're immediately— we're immediately at the point to where to get any sense out of you or Jared, I've had to confront you.

Correct.

I've had to basically call BS on the play.

Correct.

I basically had to say, this is BS. Like, I'm going to stop you there, this is BS. And it's like you've settled down and you're listening now, it seems like. We'll find out. But it's like Look, look at, look at what I've had to risk to get to you. I've had to risk confrontation. I've had to risk disagreement.

You'll get no confrontation here, mate. I understand that.

What else are you still talking? You're still talking. I'm trying to explain to you and you're talking over me. If you want to, if you want to tell me how to save your marriage, go ahead. You've got me here for free and you're, you're more interested in hearing your own voice than mine.

Well, I'm sorry I came across like that. I'm not—

my intention is not how you came across, bro, it's what you did. Like, one of the things, one of the things I say is like, let you know, I'm not your guide, I'm not your mentor, let's let reality guide us here. And it's like you, you're insisting on your, your version of reality is all that exists for you. Every, every time something that, that is indisputable, is placed before you, your response is, I can see why it would come across that way. There is no world other than yours. There is no opinion other than yours, Jared. You're unreachable. You know, it's taken me— you know, what are we into this, like 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes into this, right? Like It's already apparent, like, you're not— you're unreachable in your current format. And unless I'm willing to confront you on everything, like, I had to go, stop. How many times have I said stop, Jared? Stop. Like, at least 3 times I've already said stop, Jared, you have to stop, and pull you back. It's like We're not, we're not having a conversation. You're giving me your view version of reality, and if I did, and if I, if I don't agree with that in any way, you'll politely just disagree with me by saying, I can see why you would think that, but actually you're wrong. That's not what I meant. That's not what I did. The, the way that your wife is not communicating with you, not, not because she doesn't like communication. She's not communicating with you because you're not communicable, because she can't. You know, again, it's very— it's going to be very frustrating, right? Like, if every time, like, for us to have a real conversation where I have to keep stopping you and saying, stop, Jared, back up the truck, back up the truck, it's like, it's exhausting. And it's only been 10 minutes, right? Like, your wife's— how many years has she had of it? 14 years. She's like, she's exhausted. 14 years of trying to— there comes a point when, when there's just no, there's just no gas in the tank left, you know. And, and what it comes down to, and it's not like, this is not, you know, like We said before we started, right, this, this is my, you know, it's going to be tough because it's, it's not, it's not the fact you've got phenomenal relationship skills that have brought you to this point that you're at right now. But the truth of the matter is, like, you're not— you're a man that doesn't listen. You're a man that has very little interest in any other view other than your own. The only reason you're listening to me is because you're in so much pain that you're willing to listen to as an aspirin, as a pain relief, right? Like, you wouldn't have listened to me a year ago, 2 years ago. The only thing, the only thing that's brought you to the place of listening is extreme pain, you know? And when the life you live is the man you are— I'm not your mentor, I'm just, I'm just pointing out what reality is. Not, it's not my opinion. It's like I'm just pointing out what reality actually is. And the reality is you're a man that will not listen unless you're in extreme pain. And then the chances are, once that pain ends, you'll just go back to your own ways anyway. Like, what, what kind of marriage is that?

No, it's one-sided.

You've given her— you've given her no good option, Jared.

Yes, I fully understand that, you know.

And when you say like she doesn't— she doesn't talk, or she doesn't like— you know, it's like, okay, well, that's like saying a man— my husband doesn't like sex. Who's buying it, man? It's like, no, no, let me, let me correct you, sweetheart. Your husband doesn't like sex with you. He's a man, he likes sex, trust me, unless there's something extremely wrong with him. And again, like, you know, what, what you're saying here, Jared, is you've basically started the conversation off saying, I understand everything you've said, but I'm special. All the rules of human nature don't apply to me in my relationship. I'm special. I know you said that she likes conversation, but she genuinely doesn't. She genuinely do— I know you've said, Cody Butler, that she's getting conversation from some— she genuinely isn't. You're saying my situation is unique and special and those rules don't apply to me because I'm special. And you are special in the fact that you're a human being and you're a soul, but you're not special in the fact that you're having a relationship with somebody. And like virtually every man I speak to, the conversation starts out, you know, my situation is quite unique. It's like, no, sir, no, no, your situation is not unique. If she does, if she's not talking to you, which you've said the problem is, which is ultimately the breakdown of the relationship, like it's because there's only two reasons for that. Communication is painful or pointless. And you've provided both of those in this conversation with me. You've made, you've made the conversation painful and pointless, which to your credit, you've turned around. But as I've said, like, look what, look at the, look at the confrontation I had to put on the table to get you to this point. Of actually listening. Too risky for her. Too risky for her. If you blow up, what do I care, man? I'll just click disconnect and you'll be gone, and we'll never— I'll never have to see you again. Like, I don't have to spend the night in the house with you.

Yeah, I, um, I appreciate what you've said because, uh, you know, when you say the likes of blowing up, I, I always saw myself as probably non-combative because I don't like to blow up. But, um, you've opened my eyes to the fact that, uh, this is a stark reminder that, yes, you're right, you had to push me to, um, stop, you know, to just listen. And that is a flaw I have.

I know you're extremely combative, extremely, because you basically combated everything that I've said. You just do it in a nice way. You're just very— you're articulate, right? Like, this is a mechanism that people that are combative use that like to think that they're not. I understand what you're saying, Cody, and I could see why you would think that. That's, that's basically— you said, I don't— I just don't agree with you. Like, to say, and I don't agree with you, is combative, right? To say, I, I can see what you're saying, I understand why you would think that, that, that's you being combative while allowing yourself to think that you're actually not, you know. And this, this is the problem that it creates within the relationship. You're actually quite an aggressive, quite a combative person while thinking that you're passive and docile. Do you— like, it took me 3— less than 3 seconds to figure out, like, what what your communications— your wife's had 14 years, bro.

Yeah.

And, and ultimately, if you know, the behavior that she's demonstrating is completely consistent with the personality that you have. You are, you are combative, you are disagreeable. And the fact that she's refused to engage in that, that this is how, like This is her mechanism to avoid the pointlessness and the pain. But this is where the transformation starts, right? Like, you— if her true issue with the marriage is, Jared, you're combative, Jared, you're disagreeable, Jared, you're quite aggressive, and you go, no, I'm not, which you're also very argumentative, as we've already talked about, and you go, no, I'm not, what hope does she have of changing, Jared?

No, no, look, only I can do that.

She has no hope of changing, of the marriage changing. None. And if she goes, well, I can't live with that, I can't live with his disagreeability, I can't live with the, the argumentativeness, I can't agree with, I can't live with all of these things, and there's no hope of that changing in him, what options, what option does she have, Jared?

None.

She does. She has one option: to leave. Yeah, to leave, which is what she's done.

True.

Which again, it's what I'm saying, like, let's let reality be our guide. Like, we're not going to go, I think this is what's happened. Like, the situation will tell us what's happened. Your communication will tell us what's happened. But do you see, just spending like 15, 20 minutes on this, who you've, who you've been showing up as is an entirely different man to who you think you've been showing up as.

Can I say honestly, I've gone from thinking I know what my problem is to actually knowing that you've summed me up very well, very, very well. It's, yeah, it's an eye-opener. I understand not only what you're saying about my marriage but also in other aspects of how I communicate, you know. I appreciate it.

Let's just look at it like this, right? Like, you started this conversation with, I know what the problem is, is A, B, C, D, E. Every single one of those was wrong. Every single one of those diagnoses was wrong.

100%. I came in believing that, um, I had— didn't have the understanding of, um, what it was to run a marriage. But I think what it was was that I didn't have the understanding of who I come across as and who I come across as is who I am.

The life you live is the man you are. The words you say is the man you are. And this is the thing, right? You can say like a lot of the things you said, Jared, was like, I can see why you would— no, I don't think it. That is what you said, bro. Those are your words. Like, I'm not, I'm not interpreting what you've said. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just giving it back to you verbatim. And it's like when it's, when it gets given back as you've said it, you deny it.

Yeah, yeah, I accept that.

And it's like, that's the disconnect that she can't live with. That's what needs to change. That's the diagnosis, right? Like, you showed up on this call thinking you know something. Like, hopefully you'll leave realizing you know nothing, and that's progress.

Believe me, I knew nothing.

Yeah, you know, I, I really, you know, I, when I was young, and still to some extent, man, we're humans, right? Like, there's ego involved here, but it's like, I know far less than I think I do. But I really did think I knew everything when I was younger. My 20s were horrible, man. I was a horrible person to be around because you just couldn't tell me anything. I knew everything. But the day I realized that I actually knew nothing was the first time I actually knew something. Now I actually know something that's true. I know nothing. That's the first true thing that I've ever understood in my life, probably. I know nothing. Yeah, you know, one of the— if not the number one rule to live by is never grade your own homework. Because let me ask you a question: if you had blind spots, Jared, would you see them?

Never.

If you were delusional, if you were delusional, would you be aware that you had the delusion?

Not at all, and you've pointed that out today very clearly.

So if you had blind spots and you wouldn't— if you wouldn't see your blind spots, which is the correct answer, you wouldn't. That's why it's called a blind spot. And if you were delusional, you couldn't possibly know it. Is it possible that you're blind and delusional when it comes to what's going on in your marriage?

Blind delusional monkey with a machine gun.

So, right, you know, and you're taking this very well, but let's just say that's an accurate diagnosis. And I don't mean that in a mean way. It's like You've been, you've been showing up as a blind delusional monkey with a machine gun while at the same time starting this call out saying, I'm creating emotional safety.

I'm—

it's like, can those— you're destroying emotional safety, but you're telling yourself you're building it. You're destroying her ability to interact with you while at the same time going, I'm doing the work to fix it. The best thing you can do to your wife is you know, is go back to her and say, I'm lost, I'm completely lost.

Yeah, definitely.

That, that'll be the most reassuring thing you can— you could ever— she could ever hear. And ask for her help, you know, like, go aside from She will tell you what she's been telling you, I guarantee. Like, she has— she will tell you and has been telling you what needs to happen. You just haven't been in a position to hear it. You just haven't been able to hear it. Your voice, your own voice has been so loud, you just haven't been able to hear hers. That's it.

Yeah, yeah, I can, I can definitely agree with you. I see that now. That you've really opened myself up, and it's a hard truth to swallow, and I'm humbled.

Well, you know, I don't know if you're a religious man or not, but Jesus said in the Bible, man, the storyteller tells us that know the truth, for it's the truth that shall set you free. It's not what's going to save your marriage, is not you telling me the story that you've created around your marriage, is looking at it. Looking at your marriage and go, this is actually the truth of the situation. It's the truth. Understanding the truth is what will rebuild your marriage, not creating a story around anything else, really. Sorry, go on, Jared.

It's, it's actually, um, it's hit home more than anything I've, I've, I've looked at before because It is something that, you know, when somebody tells you and you get that knowing, you know, you are right, you have summed me up in 2 minutes, and it's a side that I was blind to, but I can hear you.

There is hope for your marriage but not in your current condition. That's the truth. Like, she's not coming back to you, Jared, like you are.

No, no.

And that's what, you know, why we started this call. I said, you know, this might be hard. It's like, because unless, unless, unless the version of Jared that we're talking to right now can be eradicated from the face of the earth and a new Jared show up, like, there's no hope. Like, and there's always like that— it's not that you're a bad guy or what you're doing is wrong. It's like, if your destination, if your outcome is to save your marriage, marriage, then, then the behavior is wrong in light of the destination.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, you know, we'll, we'll finish it here and then we'll jump over to Eric. But like, the question to ask yourself in every scenario is like, do you want to be right or do you want to be effective? Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?

Yeah, I, I, uh, I know the answer to both of those, and I know it'll take a lot of retraining for me to not be so combative in regards to that. But thank you.

You're very welcome.