Why your wife wants to leave (and what to do right now) | Cody Butler

Man, listen, there's some really valuable information coming. This is Cody Butler. He is in Australia. Cody, it's early in the morning, I believe, for you, Cody, correct?

It's not too early. 10 AM.

Oh, it's not too early. Okay. And it's 8 o'clock and I am like, this is late for me. And so we're just going to have a great conversation. And I'm going to open by just reading a little bit of Cody's bio. Cody Butler, the founder of Better Marriage and creator of the Marriage Recovery Process, teaches couples how to repair intimacy, restore communication, and rebuild their marriages. Cody's unique faith-based approach seamlessly integrates cutting-edge neuroscience with deep spiritual insights, revolutionizing the way couples heal and reconnect. Our proprietary NeuroEmotional Dialogue (NED) method provides solutions that are both scientifically sound and spiritually enriching. As the number one bestselling author of Cut the BS: A No-Nonsense Guide to Happiness, and a sought-after guest on Fox, ABC, and NBC, Cody brings a wealth of knowledge and a proven track record of success. He has already helped thousands of couples develop the skills needed to succeed in marriage in today's new normal. So Cody, welcome, welcome, welcome.

Thank you for having me, Michelle. Good to be here. Thank you.

Yeah, let's dive in. Like I said, this podcast is really geared toward men, and I want to discuss, like, your— one of your topics is how to be the husband of Ephesians 5 that will save any marriage. What does that mean?

Yeah, it's being a high-value male, basically. It's being a man that your wife— we talk about leadership, and a lot of— that there's a fine line between leadership and tyranny. And leadership is somebody that you voluntarily follow. One of the analogies that I always make is like, how do you get men to advance into fire, into a battle? How do you get them to advance into certain death? And it's like, the answer is you have to be willing to to take the first arrow, you have to be willing to take the first bullet. You can't be the general up on the hill saying, 'Men, advance into battle, I'll be up here because if I get killed you're all in trouble.' And it's like, you know, it's not feminism or masculism or masculinity or anything like that. It's just a case of like, when you provide genuine leadership, everybody is going to want to follow you, male or female. And that's where we want to get to, is a place where you're going somewhere good, you're leading, you're going somewhere good yourself, and everybody can look at you and go, he's going somewhere good, or she's going somewhere good, I would like to follow that person to that place. And that's leading them to a better place, not leading them through demand or command, or because you think you have some authority or God-given right to lead.

Okay, yeah, and that makes sense. And I think people especially faith-based people, people in the church, they, they think of Ephesians 5 as an impossible task. Like, they— it's an ideal that they can't ever live up to. But you talk about leading with love, and what does that look like in the trenches of everyday marriage?

Well, especially from a faith-based perspective. We're talking men, men within the church, you know, men in general as well, but like particularly within the church. And they feel like they have some right to tell their wife what to do, or they have some God-given authority to, you know, put their thumb down on, on, on their wife or their partner and tell them what to do. And the reality is, it's like leadership is about what, what we just said, right? It's like, if you're unhappy, it's like It's marriage for, in a lot of cases, two starving people coming together saying let's share each other's food. When, when the reality is it's like, if you follow me, you're going to get what I've got. If I follow you, you'll get— I'm going to get what you've got. And if you're depressed, you're negative, the sky's falling down, you're unhappy, you're financially destitute, uh, you have nothing desirable Why would I follow that? What, you know, to go to come to me and say, God's given me authority that you must follow me. It's like, well, that's insane. It's like, if I'm, if I'm happy, I'm positive, I've got friends, I've got social life, I've got finances, I've got a happy marriage, I've got children that love me, I've got good health, I've got, I've got a lot of the things that, that is desirable. I don't have to say follow me. People are going to come to me and say You have a lot of stuff that I would like. How did you get that, Cody? And that, that's where it's like, that, that's where the real leadership comes from. And that, that's where we want to— that's what's missing in the marriage, that, that type of leadership, Michelle. It's like men are coming to their wives and you need to respect me, you need to follow me, you need to fill in the blank. But the reality is, well, what have you given her to follow? What have you given her to respect? And if you want to be respected, give that person something to respect. If you want to be followed, give them— show them that you're going somewhere worth following. And it's leading through example, not, not leading through command and demand. And I think that's really where we go wrong a lot of times, Michelle, is like we just think we have some divine right to be respected, and it's like, no, that's not, that's not how it works.

Yeah, that— thank you for sharing that. That is really important to understand. Now, what can a husband do if he is— if he does have those traits and he is a natural leader by example and how he's conducting his life, but his wife is not on board? She is reluctant, she is resistant. Is there a way he can keep being that leader when it doesn't seem like anybody is following?

Well, if nobody's following, it's because you're going nowhere desirable. If you want to know, like, ultimately, it's like, you've got to look at yourself and go, am I delusional? Am I crazy? It's like, I talk to people in business all the time, they go, I've got a great business, I've got a product that people want, I've got great marketing, I've got great sales, but you you broke. It's like there's a disconnect here. It's like the fruit will tell you what the root of the tree is. And if, if nobody is respecting you, maybe you're behaving in a way that doesn't garner respect. In, in the same way, like, you know, we've all met these people that they're 50 pounds overweight and they go, I eat nothing, I exercise all the time and I eat nothing. No, you're delusional. It's like you don't You don't eat a healthy diet and you don't exercise on a regular basis and be 50 or 60 or 100 pounds overweight. It's like you're delusional. You've created something in your mind that simply isn't true. And the, the, the secret here to everything— and it's like Jesus says, know the truth because it is the truth that will set you free. It's not your delusional concept of what you want the truth to be or what you think truth is. And again, the reality is the smartest thing to do is if you're overweight is not to say, well, I'm eating the right diet and I'm doing the right amount of exercise. It's going, I'm missing something.

Yeah.

If, if you're in a marriage that your wife doesn't respect you or your wife isn't following you, then the smart thing to do is say, maybe I'm missing something here. But our tendency is to blame the other person and to look at the other person and go, I'm doing everything right, so they must be wrong. Is, is what happens. And, and we've got to start with ourselves, and we've got to start really introspectively looking at ourselves and looking in the mirror. And the problem lies with us, and the solution lies with us.

Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think we are, as humans, quick to blame other people. It's not us. It's not me, it must got to be someone else's fault. Exactly.

So got to be someone else.

How are— what are some communication keys that a man can— a husband can use to get maybe a non-communicative wife to open up and communicate with him without forcing the issue?

Look, I, I, it's a great question, Michelle. I talk to men all the time, they go, my wife just doesn't like talking. I'm like, no, no, no, sir, she doesn't like talking to you. I guarantee she likes talking, and I guarantee she's talking to people about— it's like, no, no, no, she— like, that's an absurd, insane statement. My wife doesn't like talking. That's like saying a dog doesn't like barking. Women talk, they love talking. And ultimately, like, look, here's the number one— here's the number— like, this, this is the nugget. If you're a man and you're in a marriage, take this away because this, this is worth everything. The number one thing that you need in a marriage for a happy marriage is emotional safety. If your woman is not communicating with you, it's because she doesn't feel emotionally safe to do so. That's the truth, you know. And, and guys ask me all the time, they, they go, I've got two questions. Is my marriage Is it going to take to save? And I'm like, can you create emotional safety? And how long is it going to take for you to do it? That, that, that's everything. Job done. So in every situation, you— the smart man, the husband that really cares about his wife and wants to be there for her should be asking the question, am I building or destroying emotional safety in this conversation? Am I working towards emotional safety or am I tearing it down? Because if you're building it, your marriage is growing. If you're tearing it down, your marriage is dying. There's no in-between. And let me, let me define, Michelle, quickly, if I may, what emotional safety is from my perspective, because it's kind of an abstract term. Because men will go, well, of course my wife's got emotional safety. Well, hang on a second. Right, hang on. Emotional safety is the ability that your wife, the percentage of your wife that she can be herself what percentage of the time. So the gold standard is your wife can be 100% of herself, 100% of her time— of the time. That's the gold standard. That is emotional safety at the highest level. She feels like she can completely express herself however she feels at any point without fear of any kind of repercussions. And a lot of times what happens is a woman expresses herself and she's punished for it. And then she expresses herself again and she's punished for it.

Yes.

And after a while, she's learned— because every time she talks, she punishes— she learns that speaking to you is painful, pointless, or both. Probably both painful and pointless. And you've trained her that talking is pointless, so she stops talking based on your training. And now you start accusing her of stonewalling. So you create the problem and then accuse her of becoming the problem. So not only have you created the problem, you're now accusing her of being the problem. And it's like, now it's a double whammy. It's like, she knows she's not the problem. So she's like, I've done everything I can do to talk to you. I've done everything I can do to communicate with you how to save this marriage, how to improve it. And every time I do, you punish me. So I stopped communicating because you're punishing me. And now you're accusing me of stonewalling because I'm doing what you trained me to do.

Wow.

And here's the man going, my wife's the problem, my wife. No, sir, she's not the problem. She's a product of your leadership, and you've led her to believe that she can't talk. She's a product of your leadership. That's all she is. Lead her, lead her, show her through your leadership that she has the emotional safety to communicate, and guess what she will do? 100 times out of 100, she will communicate. So that, that's a great place to start, Michelle.

Oh, that's so great and so true. So, so true. I love that. And so connected to that communication and that emotional safety is, you know, men. And I know we're diving into maybe an area that people feel a little bit uncomfortable talking about on a podcast. I don't. But when it comes to the sexual intimacy, like, women have to feel that connection. They just don't want to be an object. And so how can a man really nurture his wife so— especially if she's a little bit reluctant and she's really not into it that much How can he nurture an environment that invites meaningful getting together, meaningful sexual intimacy?

Well, that's a great question. I mean, it's probably the number one complaint and the number one motivator of men, right? But the answer, the answer is the same. It's like women— if your wife is not wanting to be intimate with you, it's because she has no emotional safety with you. It's, it's as simple as that. It's like You know, most men I work with, they think their wives are just these demonic creatures that just want to make them miserable all the time. It's like, you, if you make your wife happy, she will, she will. It doesn't matter if she's so inclined, if she feels that way or not, she's very likely to accommodate you because she loves you and she wants to see you happy. But that's, again, this is, it's leadership. It's leading, it's leading your wife to a place where in that place it says, hey, your needs are more important than mine. This is the, you know, to go back to your earlier, earlier question that what is the, what is the husband of Ephesians 5? It's a man that puts his wife's needs before his own. If we, to simplify it, it's a man who puts his wife's needs before his own, you know. And most, most men say, well, you know, I'd lay my life down for my family. What do you talk— well, yeah, you'd lay your life down, but would you lay your needs down?

Ooh, that's really profound.

Yeah, yeah, you're not going to be asked.

Yeah, that's rare.

You're not going to be asked to lay— it's easy to say I'd lay my life down for my family. Well, yeah, what's the chances of that happening? It's, it's, it's a, it's a throwaway statement, right? It's like you're never going to be tested. But it's like, from— if I say I'm willing to lay my needs down for my wife's needs, oh, I'm going to be tested in the next hour. Good.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and ultimately it's like one of the things we say— we have a program, one thing we say is like the mirror never lies. It's like if you're not getting your needs met, it's because you're not meeting needs.

Okay.

If you're getting hostility, it's because you're, you're giving hostility. Your marriage is nothing more— what your wife has been brought to you to highlight your own deficiencies.

Yeah, she's a mirror. Basically what you're saying is she's a mirror of your leadership. She's a mirror of how you conduct yourself and how you treat her.

Yes.

Right.

And don't get me wrong, like, it's the same the other way as well. It's not just the one— what, you know, obviously we're talking about men in this conversation, but it's like your husband— if you're a woman, your husband is a mirror as well. So pretty much that, that, that's reflective. I mean, obviously, like A man's need is not emotional safety. He has different needs. So we're talking really from the perspective of, of, you know, the man helping the woman move to a better place within the marriage at this point. But yeah, it's seek to understand before being seeking to be understood, you know. And give you a quick example, Michelle. A lot of guys that I work with, if my wife could only understand how I feel, if my wife— if I could only communicate how much I love her, if she I'm like, me, me, me, me, me. I'm like, you're trying— you're asking me how can I be understood? I'm like, the question is not— the problem is that's all you care about is her understanding you. Like, if you could turn that around and go, I seek to understand my wife before seeking to be understood myself, watch what will happen in your marriage. It'll be insane what will happen. Yeah. And Go on, go on, Michelle. Sorry.

No, that— what you're saying is so real and so true. And I have talked to, you know, men along the way that have said, yes, to get my wife amorous, I need to give her a couple glasses of wine, I need to do these external things so she is, you know, in the mood. But what you're saying makes so much sense because It's not the couple glasses of wine. It's the how you're treating her. It's how you're presenting yourself as a man to her. Correct?

Well, again, Michelle, like, like, okay, well, that man, like, I'm, I'm gonna throw it out there and risk criticism here. It's like, basically, you're saying I'm a man that needs to— that's happy and willing to drug my wife to get sex out of it. That's the type of man you are. I'm a man that's happy to drug my wife. Wife to have sex, so she'll have sex with me. It's like, okay, well, you're some kind of leader we all want to follow. Like, what— why would she want to have sex with a man that's quite happy to drug it to get what he wants? You know, obviously I'm going to the edge of the envelope here, but that's what's going on. It's like, you don't— you don't need to give your wife drugs to get her to have sex. Like, give her the emotional drugs, give her the emotional endorphins. Like, that's what— give her what she needs. It's like It's— this stuff's very easy. And look, here's the thing, I've got a YouTube channel and I've got some videos on there on what to do in a sexless marriage if you're a man.

Okay, everybody will tune into that one.

I've got a series of comments from women saying, this guy's spot on, listen to him. And then I've got a series of comments from men going, this guy's a bozo, he should be banned from YouTube. It's like all of the men are saying, this guy's clueless, and the women are saying, listen to him, this is what you need to do if you want to have sex with me. And it's like, this is— again, this is the, the leadership that, you know, a good leader is not addicted to. A good leader invites criticism. A good leader invites constructive dialogue. A good leader invites alternative and opposing opinions. Yeah, that's what a good leader does, and it brings all of those elements into the decision-making process. And it's like, marriage is a partnership, and if you don't involve your woman in the decision-making process, how is she going to feel a partner? How's she going to feel like you're on this journey together? You know, and, and I think, you know, one of the big things I tell men, I'm like, women don't want much, man. They want to get— they want a gentle word, they want a kind touch. And they want to feel like it's you and her against the world. That's it. Yeah. And it's like, how can it be you and her against the world when she doesn't have much input, or you've destroyed emotional safety so she can't have input? It's you against the world with her in tow as the maid. Yes.

And women are like, yeah, yeah.

That's what it is. Like, most men are nothing more than a lodger in their own home. That's all they are. And it's like, well, how does she feel like she's a part of this relationship? It's like, you know, if you want to save your marriage, start acting like you're married, bro. Start acting like you're married. Don't act like a single individual in a married home with all the benefits of being married but none of the drawbacks, and then go, I want to save my marriage. Well, if you want to save your marriage, start acting like you're married, brother.

Yeah, that, that's so—

like, you're married.

I, I used to— I, I remember telling my ex-husband at one point, like, I'm not even on the back burner, I'm not even on the stove, you know.

I'd like to be an afterthought. I'd like to be an afterthought right now.

Exactly, exactly. So you coach a lot of men through marriages, relationship, you know, the issues in their marriage. What are the top, say, 3 things that you see repeated that men come to you for that they really need help in?

Well, look, what they come to me for and what they need help in are two different things. Like, you know, men come to me What they think they need help in is getting their wives to comply, getting their wives to bend to their will, getting their wives to see their opinion, getting their wives to understand their point. That's what they think they need. But at the end of the day, what they really need is they need to understand what emotional safety is and how to create it. You know, I, I, like, we've got two, we've got two elements here. For a man, it's sex. For a woman, it's communication. And I tell, you know, it's like when I talk to women, I say, well, if she's not giving, if she's not engaging in sexual activity for whatever reason, I'm like, okay, you've got your reasons, whatever, I get it. But look at it like this, it's like if your husband didn't talk to you for 5 years, would you want to be married to him? If you're, if your husband said, I'm just not talking to you because I don't feel like it, where would that leave you? I'm like, marriage is a grown-up business. And it's like there's an element of sacrifice on both sides. There's an element of give and take on both sides. And it's the same with— it's the same with, with a man, you know. It's like they go, well, my wife hasn't given me sex for 5 years. What have you talked to her in the last 5 years other than to ask her for sex? It's like, if she's not— if she's not giving you intimacy, it's because you— if she's not giving you physical intimacy, it's because you're not giving her emotional intimacy. End of, end of conversation. Like, if you don't agree with me, don't work with me, because that's— I'm not gonna— I'm not having that conversation. If she's not giving you physical intimacy, it's because you're not giving her emotional intimacy. And it's like, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Well, I can tell you in this case, emotional intimacy comes before sexual intimacy. That— and it's like, if you don't like that, don't call me.

Exactly, exactly. So Based on what you just said and what men need versus what they're saying they need, how do you break that barrier of getting men to really understand that and take that first step? Because I can imagine the resistance is there. I can imagine that you're full of, you know, baloney is there. So how do you get them to, to just say, oh, okay, like, like in, uh, I don't know, Alcoholics Anonymous say, I know the first step they say is admitting that you have a problem. Is that what you deal with?

I mean, look, I wish I had a better answer for you. The true answer, unfortunately, is it's usually when the wife leaves or gives a watershed moment, this is over. I'm leaving, I want you out, or they discover an affair. Or for a man, unfortunately, there's usually a watershed moment that wakes him up and goes, oh, I'm in trouble. I, I wish, I wish I could get the men 6 months earlier because it's like, yeah, again, this, this is, this is one of the very sad things about marriage is like the woman very often almost in every situation, has given warning after warning after warning, has given instruction after instruction, has been telling the man for months and years what they need to do to save the marriage. And unfortunately, like I tell men, your wife is at least 6 months ahead of you thinking-wise. She, like, you know, men, men are road rage, women are considered. Like, a man— a thought comes into a man's head and 30, you know, 30 milliseconds later it comes out of his mouth. Like, a woman is like, no, no, I'm like, if she's leaving you today, she's been thinking about this for 18 months and she made that decision 6 months ago. She made it 6 months ago, brother. She, she hasn't just decided that now. And it's like, now we're up against it, right? Now, now we're emergency surgery. Now we're really up against it. It's like If you'd have seen the writing on the wall 6 months ago, 12 months ago, and taken these steps then, 100% chance of success. Couples, man, if both people in the relationship are serious about saving their— 100% chance of success. 100%. 100 times out of 100 can save the marriage. But, but a lot of times it's like, unfortunately, the woman has to snap. And now we're really up against it, you know, that, that's when the man decides, okay, I need to actually do something.

Yeah. Do you give them, just like somebody with a health crisis would go to ER, are there ER things that you can tell a man like, oh my gosh, he's in trauma, his wife just left, she's been giving him clues, he didn't hear, he didn't listen, and now he's in this crisis situation, is there triage for that?

Yeah, look, so it's not about the danger here. It's like, yes, but excuse me, there are things you can tell your wife that can turn the situation around, that there are scripts, there are things you can do. But it's like, the reality is like, all you're doing is you're buying yourself another 30 days, and at the end of it, she's going to be even more skeptical. The solution is like, here's the truth: your marriage can get better because you can get better, and your marriage will only get better when you get better. And you've got it, you've got it. Like, hey, there are only two— to understand the recovery process, you've got to understand what you said yes to in the first place, or what your wife said yes to. And there's only two things that your wife said yes to, and that was she loved the way that you made her feel and she saw that a future with you was significantly better than a future without you. When she put those two together, said, I love how this man makes me feel, and I can see a better future with him than without him, yes, I will marry this man. Now everything falls into one of those two buckets. Anything you want to put into the relationship equation falls into how it makes you feel or the future that you perceive with that person. Now she's leaving, the opposite is true. She hates how you make— she makes— she hates how you make her feel, and she looks at you as a bad option for the future. She looks at a future without you as being better than a future with you. Now, there's no script that's going to change that. You can't go to your wife and have a 30-minute conversation and change that. Yeah, that there's only one solution. It's like you've got to address the issue of how am I making my wife feel and what future am I presenting with her. And, you know, and a lot of guys go straight to the future. They go, well, I'll buy a boat and I'll sail around the world. Like, she doesn't want to get on a boat with Satan, you fool. Like, unless you make her feel good about herself, she's not going to want to get on a boat. She's not going to want to get in a car, on a plane, in a hotel room, in a house, in a room. She's going to see no— she's going to see any future with you as a bad future unless you address how you make her feel.

Yeah.

And how you make her feel is not a script, it's a philosophy. It's like, well, how do I communicate? How do I dress? How do I view my wife? How do I perceive my wife in my mind? You know, it's like, do you view her as the enemy or do you view her as a teammate? Is she a willing participant or a hostage? Most women are just held hostage in the marriage, you know. It's like, well, you've held your wife hostage, you You think she feels good about that? You're holding your, you know, well, you're gonna damage the kids, you're gonna damage the finances, you're gonna ruin it. Yeah, okay, so hold a gun to her head and hold her hostage. That's a strategy. The winning— it's not a winning strategy, but it's a strategy. You might get her to stay if you hold a gun to her head, but it's like, you're not going to have passion, you're not going to have love, you know. There is only one winning strategy, and then it's like, you have to look at yourself and say, You got to look in the mirror and say, I've been weighed, I've been measured, and I've been found wanting.

Oh man, that, that is so true. And I listen to a lot of podcasts by Leslie Wernick and Lisa TerKeurst, and they're, you know, relationship repair individuals. And so I've heard a lot of stories about what you're talking about, women feeling like they were held hostage for 30 and 40 years of their lives. And it's so sad because it can be turned around, like you said, with when the man works on himself and then becomes that reflection. So that leads me to one of my final questions is, tell me about your book. What is that all about and why did you write it?

Well, Cut the BS: A No-Nonsense Guide to Happiness is like, what else is there? You know, it's like we peel the layer of the onion back. It's like anything that you do, it's like if we just ask the question, well, why are you doing that? Why is that important? You want your wife to come back. Why? Why do you want her to come back? Because for my family. Okay, well, why is that important? Like, if we keep peeling that onion—

I'm hungry and she needs to make my toast.

Yeah, ultimately it's like, it's because I want to be happy and I think that that'll make me happy. Why do you want to make more money? Because I think that'll make me happy. Why do you want a new car? Because I think that'll make me— it's like, ultimately happiness is all there is in life. There's nothing else. When— if you arrive at a place of happiness, you, you, you've won. You're at the top of the mountain. And I found myself in a place of great dissatisfaction and great unhappiness. And happiness became my life obsession. It's like, what is happiness? And why is it so elusive? And I found happiness. I found that place of happiness. And I found that place of satisfaction. And I recovered. And I just want to put it out there. It's like, hey, this worked for me. I think it'll work for you too. It's worked for a lot of people. And ultimately, this is leadership, right? Again, going back to the beginning of the conversation, your wife, just all your wife wants is to be happy. That's all she wants, man. She wants to be happy. And if you're miserable and unhappy, why is she going to follow? Where are you leading her to? Like, if you're unhappy, where can you lead her but to a place of unhappiness? There's nothing, you know, you can't lead her anywhere good. Whereas if you have happiness, which honestly, Michelle, is a very elusive thing, not very many people find it, when you actually find that happiness and you truly have it, you're very— you become very magnetic. And it's like everybody is going to want to know where— that's what really is. What is happiness and where do you find it? Happiness is a formula. It's not, it's not something a few lucky people are given. It's a formula that if we follow it, happiness is available to each and every one of us.

No, that's, that's so true. And I'm glad that it's a number one bestseller. And I'm, you know, I'm— I hope it gets into the hands of as many people as possible, because I think that is true. And my final question to you before I ask, like, where can people connect with you, how can they follow you— and, and I imagine that since you said about the YouTube, the women are gonna flock to the YouTube station to like, oh, this guy knows what he's talking about. But I want to ask you Like, I guess it's like, can the Bible says when a man finds a wife, he finds a good thing? So is there a secret happiness equation that a man can use if he's single and he's seeking a wife? Is there some magnet there that he can attract the kind of woman he's looking for, if that, if that makes sense.

That was kind of a convoluted question, but yeah, look, he like, regardless, he's going to attract the kind of woman he's looking for. The problem is he doesn't have clarity about what he's looking for. Ah, you know, he might, he might just go, I want a woman that does this and this and this, and it's like, yeah, okay, well, that's, that's half of 1% of the relationship, and you get that, but it's like What about the rest? It's like clarity is a force multiplier. Clarity is a force multiplier. Focus is a force multiplier. It's like it's getting really, really focused about what you want. And to be honest with you, it's about— the real question is like, firstly, get clear about what you want. And the second question, which is even more important, is like, what kind of man would I have to be to attract that kind of woman? Like, for me, for me personally, to attract the kind of woman that I want— like, you know, when I was, when I was single and I was looking for a wife, for me to attract the kind of woman that I want, for her to say yes, I've got to be pretty damn spectacular. I've got to be pretty down there because the woman I want is not taking sloppy seconds. She's not taking second best. Like, the woman that I want has got high standards. The one— the wife that I want rejects everything other than the best, and she doesn't accept anything other than the highest standard. So if I want— I can't have that woman if I'm not that man. So the real question is, who would I have to become to attract that woman? Who would I have to become for that woman to be attracted to me? I'm going to be a man of integrity. I've got to be a man of honesty. I've got to be a man who does what he says he's going to do. I've got to be ambitious. I've got to be motivated. I've got to seek to understand before seeking to be understood. I've got to I've got to be willing to sacrifice my need for her. These are the characteristics and qualities of what that woman would be looking for.

Yeah.

So if I— if I— she's— that woman's out there looking. You know, I'm in a park right now. That, you know, if you're a single man, that woman is probably in this park walking around looking for you. And if she— if you guys are not connecting, it's because you're not the man you need to be to attract that woman right now. So get clear about what you want, then get clear about the man that you would have to be to attract her, and then focus on becoming that man, not focus on getting her.

Yes, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. And the same— to flip the script— the same applies to women too. You have to be the best version of yourself, because I think there's a lot of women out there that they want the upper echelon man, But what do you— you don't, you don't cook, you don't— you can't carry on an intelligent conversation.

You—

I mean, there's so many things, and yet they want this man up here. Or the man, you know, wants a woman, a high-caliber woman, but you're not going to attract that unless you are that.

Like, like attracts like, man. If you're not attracting a high-value woman right now, Bottom line, brothers, you're not a high value man. And again, the truth will set you free. That's a beautiful thing, because once you can say, I'm not a high value man, okay, well, is that fixable? Of course it is. Of course it is. Like, it's hard— it's not a mystery what a high value man is. Like, a man who's ambitious, got integrity, got honesty, puts other people— it's like, we— it's known. Like, these are characteristics that can be developed. And whatever you are is what you're attracting. It's like, same, like, I don't really speak to the woman's side of things. I don't want to say like you're a low-value woman. That's not, that's not where I come from. But it's like, if you're, if you're not attracting a high-value man, it's because you're, you're a low-value woman. It's like, it's as simple as that. And if you do happen to attract a high-value man, you won't keep it.

Yeah, and that's a hard thing for people to embrace. That's really hard because you have to put in the work to become that. It's not like, okay, well, I'm not that. You can become that. It doesn't mean you just settle for who you are right now and you're just like, you know, like that. You have to work at that. Just like in a marriage, you have to work to keep the flames going, to keep the emotional intimacy It doesn't happen magically.

Well, look, let me, let me finish with this. I know you need to go. I think the, the major issue with marriage is people don't understand what it is. A marriage is somewhere you go to give. It's not somewhere you go to get. And if you go into a marriage to get, you're going to be disillusioned and you're going to be unhappy unless you understand a marriage is a place that you give and to contribute. And you may never get anything back. Like the marriage contract, the marriage covenant is a one-way promise that you make to your wife, or your wife makes to you, that she makes, that offers nothing in return. I promise to have and to hold, to love and to cherish, for better or for worse, till death do us part, regardless of how she behaves back towards me. Regardless. And this is the number one thing, right? I would say, we'll become a man of integrity. Well, a man of integrity upholds his promise, uphold his word. You promise to love your wife forever regardless of what you get back, and now you're going, well, I'm not getting much back, so how long do I put up with this? Forever, brother. Forever. Yeah, honor your word. You said that you would love her like Christ loved the church forever regardless of what she does or how she— there's The, the promise that you made to your wife is the same promise that Christ made towards you. He promised to love you regardless of how you behave back, indefinitely, irrevocably, with security. And it's like, yeah, this is the man of Ephesians, right? The husbands of Ephesians. It's like, you promised to love your wife unconditionally, irrevocably, irrespective of her behavior. Honor that. You know, men going, what? How long do I put up with getting— not getting my needs met? Forever.

Yes, forever, brother.

If you're, if you're a high value man, forever.

Not everybody deals with that well. I mean, it's just like, okay, she's not meeting my needs anymore, so okay, well, let's go our separate ways. I mean, it happens every day, and it's so sad to me because the commitment just isn't there, the level of commitment. What you just described is what it's supposed to be like. It's what Christ designed for a marriage to be— forever giving, not getting.

Forever giving. And, and hopefully, you know, people go, well, you know, my wife made the same pro— yeah, well, that— she's going to be held accountable for that. You are not the one to hold her accountable. Her promise was, you know, there's no accountability, man. Like, you can't hold your wife accountable for her promise. She's responsible for that. You're— she's responsible for her behavior. You're responsible for your behavior. And her behavior doesn't excuse your behavior, brother. It's like they're independent, mutually exclusive events. If you go, well, she's behaving badly so I can behave badly, you are a low-value male, my friend. And you wonder why your marriage is falling apart. You are a low-value male.

Yeah, those are come-to-Jesus meeting words, as they say, you know. Those are hard— a hard truth that you have to come to grips with and then do something about it.

Jesus told the truth and they took him out back and nailed him to a tree. If you want to piss people off, man, speak truth. Like, the truth offends people, but it's the truth that'll set you free. It's like, you know, you— if you're a low-value male and you think you're a high-value male, like, we, we can't go to work on the problem. It's like, we've got to have an accurate diagnosis to have an accurate treatment plan.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and this, this is, this is the truth, you know. It's like, it's why so many men fail, man, is because they're just not willing to look at themselves. They're not willing to look at themselves and go, I'm the problem. Not to say that your wife's, you know, not without her problems. Of course she is, but her problems are not your problems, man. She's going to give account for those, not you. You're going to give account for your words, your problems, your deeds, your actions. That's your responsibility.

Oh, that's so deep. I bet the men that you coach are greatly helped and lives are changed. And I'm really glad that we got to talk today And I want to, you know, ask you finally, how can people connect with you? How can they find you on social media, follow you on YouTube? Give us everything.

So YouTube's really my favorite place because it's like it gets you to experience— like, you know, like you get to experience me firsthand. Like I publish coaching calls that I do with, with clients and stuff like that with their permission. So you can see like we go through real coaching situations and you get more of this. So YouTube, if you just Google Cody Butler Better Marriage on YouTube, or you just go to search, I think it's Cody— I don't know the name of the channel, I probably should— but if you just go to the search bar and put Cody Butler Better Marriage, you'll, you'll find me there. That's, that's the main way. You'll find links in the descriptions. And then bettermarriage.com is, uh, is another place kind of you can get some free trainings and stuff there as well.

Oh, perfect.

If you want to learn more about what we do here.

Yes. And I'll put all those in the show notes because this will be on YouTube as well and LinkedIn and Twitter or X and Facebook. So it will be, you know, all over the place. And I'll include all those links in there, which I'm sure you will send me afterward. Uh, that would be really helpful.

I sure will. Yeah, really would.

So anyway, thank you, Cody. Any parting words of wisdom for the men out there?

Yeah, there's hope. There's hope, you know, as long as there's life in the body. Look, I'm gonna go just one tiny little preach, if that's all right. Yes, there's a parting gift. There's no circumstance where God— it's God's will that your marriage ends. No, not one possible circumstance. And I know people are going to say, well, what about in the event of sexual— yet no, there's permissible— there's permissible divorce. Like, God will permit divorce in certain circumstances, but he clearly said, it's my preference that you reconcile. Only through the hardening of your heart will I permit divorce in this situation. I can tell you categorically, it's God's will that your marriage is restored, 100%. There's no circumstance where that is not the case.

Case.

If your marriage is not being restored, it's because you're getting in the way. The only thing that— God's word cannot return void, and if it is returning void, it's because you, brother. And it's like, there's not a circumstance where your marriage can't be healed if you return to God's word. I can tell you that assuredly. I've seen it with my own eyes. You know, we're at the end here, so we use some flowery language. Like, I see miracles all the time, man. All the time. I see miracles in marriage all the time. And there is hope. It is possible. And that's where it starts. It doesn't matter how bad it is. I don't care what's happened. There's hope. It's possible. Um, check out some of our videos, man. It's like, that's a good place to start if you're in that situation.

Okay, that, that is awesome. Thank you so much, Cody, for being a guest and for sharing your wisdom and for sharing some tidbits of, of just nuggets of gold for the men, and for people in general to, to just grab a hold of and redeem and restore. That's what it's all about.

Absolutely. That's exactly what it's about. Absolutely. So thanks for having me and giving me this opportunity to share. Thank you.

I appreciate that. And everybody, until next time, thank you for watching another episode of Winning Proof Unscripted.