Bonus Episode: Alex's Story

Welcome to the Aftermath Podcast. This is your host, Dr. Dallas Bragg, a former crystal meth addict, now sobriety coach. Join me on my mission to increase awareness around the epidemic of crystal meth among the gay male population and create a repository of resources for current and past addicts, as well as and especially for their loved ones. This is the Aftermath. Trigger warning. This podcast will contain discussions pertaining to drug and alcohol misuse. If you feel triggered to use or relapse, please call SAMHSA's National Hotline at 1-800-662-HELP. Also, if you are new in your sobriety journey and you feel like you could be triggered by discussions around drug, alcohol, and sex misuse, please do not listen to this podcast. All right, now on with the show. Okay. All right, everybody, welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast. This is a bonus episode. It's a series I'm doing of testimonials of men who have gone through my coaching program, Recovery Alchemy. Recovery Alchemy actually became the name of the program after you started. After you started, Alex, um, you didn't even know it was called that probably. But you went through it. Yeah. So anyway, I just wanted to offer testimonials. Obviously, I, I wanna get the word out about what I do in my coaching, but also I wanted to show you listeners that, you know, real men from living real lives from around the world are actually getting sober from crystal meth and living. Beautiful lives, and this one is no exception. So I am very, very proud, and hopefully I won't get emotional because I feel I have always felt you know you try to have this coach-client relationship, and you try to not get personally involved with people. But I'm sorry, I just can't. I just can't not do that. And guess what? That's why I'm not a therapist because I don't have to have you know I can say and do certain things that I wouldn't normally be able to. If I was a professional. So anyway, I have a personal connection with Alex and I'm just so proud of him and what he's been able to accomplish in a very short time. So with that being said, Alex, would you like to introduce yourself to us?

Yeah, sure. Obviously my name's Alex. I'm from a place called Birmingham in England.

Birmingham, he said.

Birmingham. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because of England. Yeah.

Okay. I need to learn more about the geography of that area because I have so many clients in and around London, but I hear Birmingham, um, actually mentioned quite a bit, uh, from other people too. Yeah.

That's the second city.

Okay.

Nice.

Okay. Well, Alex, could you, let's start out maybe, and again, you can share as much or as little as you feel comfortable doing. You know, this is a, it's a topic that's sensitive. Um, there's a lot of stigma tied around this subject, this substance. There's a lot of stigma tied around people who are gay. So, you know, there's, there's a lot here that, so I, I wanna make sure, and I've said this to you off camera per se, that, you know, I just want you to feel comfortable, um, and don't feel any pressure to share things you don't wanna share. We're just here to help any man anywhere who might be listening to this have hope, have hope that they can also break free. So that being said, yeah, could you tell us a little about your story?

Yeah, so, um, was born into, um, quite a strict household. Very strict for a number of reasons. I don't, I've got a very authoritative dad and I was in a very controlling, um, Christian religion growing up. Um, me, my brother and sister, we all Sort of went through quite a, a lot of rules growing up and sort of told what the people we had to be, everything was decided before us. But at the same time, there was a lot of, a lot of love there as well. But it was, yeah, it wasn't a normal conventional upbringing, let's put it like that. Um, so from the off, I, I fall into that situation, I guess, then when I was probably Around a young teenager. And then suddenly, well, I think I always knew that I was gay. And from that point on, you know, knowing that in a very sort of rule-orientated household was quite difficult for me to accept. There was a lot of, lot of shame around that, a lot of feeling like I was never good enough, like I was damaged in some way. Um, yeah, I've, um, there were highs and lows in my upbringing and throughout my life up to this point. I've, I've had, I've done some great things and I've had certain opportunities. And yeah, from my sort of teenage years onwards, um, that always stuck with me. My childhood, I think, you know, there's always been challenges in the way from, from the after sort of thing, um, that I've had to overcome.

You know, you brought up The controlling atmosphere, which many, many, many of us can relate to. Um, you know, I'm, I've done podcasts, some of them have been published, some of them haven't yet, about church and religious shame. And, you know, and I am myself trying to make my way through some of that too. You know, when you grow up being told that the way you are is what going to get you sent to an eternal fiery flame of death. And how do you, as a child, as a child, were told this.

Yeah.

But you also said that there was a lot of love. And so I'm wondering what your opinion is, and I don't want to, you know, I don't want to get us too far off track here, but what, how I have tried to reconcile this is that my family, the church and the church really did love me. In their mind, they didn't want me to go to hell. They wanted me to go to heaven. So out of love, they were trying to save me.

Yeah.

Is that something that you think or has helped you? Does that, does that make it better any at it? Does it may help you accept it in any way? How does that land with you?

Yeah, I think, I think especially as you get older, you realize that more and more, that that is where it comes from, that place of love. But, um, I think it's, it's difficult to work that out at first because all you can see is the concern and the, the fear of this person that you are. And it's sort of, it's almost like because our families have got their conditioned mind of what they think is right and what you should be doing. It doesn't, it doesn't work out well. You know, you sort of, it leads to lots of feelings that you wish you didn't have and it, it puts a, it has so many effects on your mind and the way that you think and feel about yourself. And you, I think that it's, it's also very difficult to get your head around the fact that even though they have your best interests at heart from a religious point of view, It still doesn't agree with you. And it's almost like you're at war in your mind because that tells you even more that you should not be gay. It's like, this is my family, they care about me. And this is, you know, it's like, it just, it, it tears you apart in a way.

It's a good way to put it. It does tear you apart. You turn against yourself, right? You try to reject a part of yourself. Um, that's, uh, you know, it's an intimate part of you. your sexuality and you turn against it. You reject it. Yeah. Yeah. So that sounds like you, then you, you grew up with a lot of shame, a lot of self-loathing. You figured out you were gay. Then how does this transform into, and, and how early did you start experimenting with your story?

So, probably about 18. So it's probably about It was a little bit, it wasn't, it's about 8 years ago that I first started using, so I was already in my mid-twenties.

Okay.

And I'm, and I, I'd been using other drugs before that, but it was almost a buildup to it. Um, so I, um, I sort of came across it because of my use of other drugs and it was But I'm saying, yeah, what's the question, I guess?

What? Well, let me, let me ask you a different question. Let me ask you another question, a sub-question now. What were the drugs you started with? And also, I know what, from my experience now working with men in the UK, methadone is a big one over there. Yeah. So if, if guys, if you don't know what methadone is, which I didn't until recently, um, It's similar to crystal meth. It's just not as potent. It doesn't keep you awake as long, but it has a lot of the similar effects. And I'm not saying methadone, methadone.

Methadone.

Right, right. Anyway, that, I don't see that or hear it very often, if at all, here in the States. So anyway, what drugs did you begin with here?

That one.

That one. That one.

Okay. Yeah, that one. Yeah.

Okay. Can you tell us, tell us about it a little bit if you don't mind?

No. Um, it absolutely stinks horrible.

Literally? Just literally, it literally stinks?

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people say that it smells like cat wee. Yeah. It's, it, like I say, it's very similar to meth in the, in the sense that, um, it gets you very high and completely very horny. Um, the long, it's like, it's like the watered-down version. That's how I describe it. I, I started using that. The people that I mixed with when I went to first started going to Parties and stuff like that. That was the drug I was introduced to that I then started using. And I used that virtually for a few years. That was actually my, what I took quite a few years, 3 or 4 years before I had ever tried meth.

Okay. And so when you say watered down, how many days are we talking about staying up? And do you use it solely for sexual purposes? And how do you take it? How do you facilitate it? What's the word I'm looking for? How do you do it?

Yeah. Well, it's either it'd be sniffed or injected.

Okay. Same. Okay.

Yeah.

Not smoked, I guess.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Tell the truth.

What, what was your source? Yeah, it's very, it's how long you stay on it. I mean, the most I did was 3 days, but that was extreme. It's usually not that long. It's a, I mean, compared to meth and the amount of time you can stay up on that, it's nothing compared to that.

Yeah.

But it's, um, it probably stays when you, you, you stay high on it. You can have, say, a line of it and you can stay high for, you have to keep taking it every half an hour. It's not like, wow, keep it stocked up. It's, it's a lot more sort of, it's more instant that you're gonna keep it topped, you know, keep it in your system.

Yeah.

And you can quite easily stop taking it compared to meth as well.

It's kind of like a, a hybrid of meth and coke, sounds like.

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's a really good way of putting it. Yeah.

Yep. Okay. So you're using methadone and what I see in the UK a lot is that methadone helps a lot of guys just be a weekend warrior. 'Cause you can do it, you know, like you're saying, do your lines or whatever on Friday night. By Sunday you can be coming down off of it enough to get to work on Monday. Is that what you were doing with it?

Yeah. Yeah. It would be a weekend thing and it would usually be, it usually, it used to be one night, sort of start Friday night, go to Saturday morning. And then you, as soon as you stop taking it, within the hour you start to come down and you can, you can sort of feel yourself calm down and your heart stop racing not that long after. You know, just drink lots of water and you almost feel, you don't feel great the next day, but throughout, um, it's not too bad. It's similar to coke. Like that, that's the best way to describe the, the way you come down off it. It's like coke.

Okay. So, okay, you're getting into this. Do you remember kind of what was the reason, what took you there to get into methadone?

It was really just It just started off as I sort of jumped in the deep end really, because I was, I hadn't really done drugs, taken drugs before. And then I was on Grindr once, I would say that. And, um, and then I got invited to a party, which was just around the corner. And I showed up and there was probably 5 or 6 guys there, um, all high as a kite.

Yeah.

And I got offered it. And I sort of remember going in feeling really apprehensive and then only thinking, well, I dunno if I can do this. I nearly walked out and then a bit of that and, um, bit of methadone and it was, um, yeah.

Full speed ahead after that, huh?

Yeah. Yeah.

And you guys call it H&H over there, right? Instead of P&P.

Yeah.

High and, high and horny.

Yeah. Okay.

All right, so let's, let's dive into how you, how you found Tina, Ms. Tina, from methadone. How'd you graduate from methadone to crystal meth?

So I, uh, I was with my, my ex-partner and I, uh, we'd done methadone, sorry, we'd done, uh, yeah, methadone for a while. Um, and we, um, We were introduced to it by people at parties because we, we were introduced to it and I just remember the first time I took it, like thinking, oh wow, this is like an upgrade. And yeah, it was just, so just somebody, I think it was a party, somebody said, oh, you've, have you ever tried this? And I said, no, what is it? Sort of thing. And I was already, I was already high, so I was more than willing to try anything that was thrown at me. So yeah, everybody else was doing it. Just said, yeah, okay, I'll give it a go.

So what was that first experience like? How long were you awake? What was it like? What?

I can't remember exactly how long I was awake. I dunno. It's a long time.

Yes.

I would say it had to be, yeah, it probably was 3 to 4 days. I was, I was up. I remember the thing I remember most vividly is just thinking to myself, I can't sleep. And because nobody actually sits down and says to you that you can't sleep and tells you things and outs, it was like I'd had it. And then there was this awful feeling of, I can't sleep. Like you tried to sleep and your brain would be ticking over. Your body would still be like, both just I was sort of put on things. Why, what is wrong with me? Why can't I sleep? And all, and also that instant craving that, well, I should just have more then if I can't sleep, then I should like, maybe I should have more.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's one reason, one of the reasons that I'm doing the podcast and one of the reasons I'm glad that you are saying this too, is that, you know, somebody handing you a pipe Or a needle or a line crystal meth, they're not going to go through the pros and cons with you, right? For the most part. Now there are stories we've heard on the podcast of these really great-natured guys who go through a whole tutorial, you know, before they administer it, right? A whole booklet. That certainly didn't happen with me, you know, but. And the thing is, so if this podcast, and it has, I've heard from men who haven't tried it yet. Actually, there's one guy the other day from Vienna maybe, who said he was invited to a party. They were gonna have this here, and because he listened to the podcast, he knew what it would do and he didn't go.

Simple enough.

And I was like, yes, there's one. Fantastic. You're right. Because if we did know, if we were informed, you know, we could, if we could possibly somehow, like, you know, somebody would've told you, don't expect to go to sleep for 4 days. You may not, you may have not have done it. You may have been happy with the methadone. Is that right?

Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's that, I think that's what's so dangerous. It's like, it's such a slippery slope. You sort of If somebody actually, if you could have people that have been through it sit down and tell you exactly what ride you're in for, I don't know. I don't think many people would want to do it or anybody. It's, it just comes into your life, it pops up and it's the sort of thing where you only need to have one taste and it's, it could be quite, it's difficult to go back from it. I know. I wish that I would never, well, in some ways I do and sometimes I don't, like, but it would've, yeah, life would've been easier if I hadn't have.

Yeah. That's the thing is, okay, you might have great sex at first, but also who tells you about the psychosis and who tells you about your life going off the rails? Yeah. And your, um, your emotions taking a dive, right? Yeah. Um, who tells you about the STIs you're going to get? And all the other shit that comes along with it, right?

Yeah. And the risks that you take and the, yeah, the people you upset. That's right.

So you and your partner discovered this together at a party. Were you and your partner open? Did you have an open relationship?

No, not as such. It was not, not when we were sober. Um, is the best way I can put it. That's kind of like a, Um, yeah, it was, it was just, it was a dynamic that we'd created.

Yeah.

So it was like we, we sort of, we lived a normal life. We both worked and then we'd the weekend go a bit crazy and it was when we'd let our guard down with more high that we'd sort of introduce, um, I guess more exciting aspects of us.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's common. That's very common, especially in UK, I think.

Mm-hmm.

Um, seems like. Um, okay. So what was, what happened? Tell us about the progression here, cuz obviously it had to have gotten outta control or you wouldn't be working with me, right? So what was the progression like? What was your life like? What can you, I, I guess, what are the highlights here that you could, that pop up into your mind when you think about Constellating the timeline of your use.

I would say, say from almost the very beginning that I started using, in the back of my mind, I knew that I had a problem with my relationship with drugs, was not healthy, but I was man— I was able to keep it together at first. I, I was much more, when, like, like when I used to, I was much, I went a lot heavier on it, let's put it like that. So my partner was very controlled with it, both of us, which had its ups and downs. I started to recognize that I never wanted to finish. I wanted to carry on. And in the back of my mind, I, I almost got this feeling that it was because I had, there were lots of, I just didn't want sober. I didn't wanna go back to a lot of my life sober. Um, but I managed to keep it in check then. And even with, um, when, when meth came into my life, Probably about 5 years early days. Well, I can't think anyway. When that came into my life, it started to, it progressed a lot worse because the comedowns became a lot worse. And I think as the last 3 years, as things then got worse, my relationship broke down. I struggled to just find motivation to do anything. And then I realized all of the problems from my youth.

Mm-hmm.

Everything that had gone on in my life started to mount up, and the harder things got for me, the more I just wanted to just latch onto it because I didn't see a way out. Like, uh, um, as much as I've still got family that stood by my side, I felt like nobody— I, I was too worried about anybody finding out. And it just got worse and worse from there, and to the point where I'd sort of look at how often I was doing it, which was nearly every day. Without fail, all day, all night, to the point that I would be so exhausted I'd just pass out. Like before, I wouldn't even have to stop. I would just have, look, I, I wouldn't consciously make that decision to stop. I would just pass out. Um, whether or not because I had too many drugs or because my body was tired. And it got to that point and it was, yeah, it was a lot.

Yeah.

That was probably over the space of the last 2 years was the worst, was, was extremely bad. It sort of slowly developed and then escalated.

Tell us about the, the in-between. Like, how did you go from doing it that first time on a weekend, being a weekend warrior, to every single day and then using it until you passed out? Like, how did that transpire for you? And were you still working? Yeah.

Yeah. I, um, well, I'm, I work for myself, so I run my own business and I, it sort of started, I think I would say the changes, the way that it escalated was probably because, because again, my partner was, he controlled and it was very controlled. And I fought against that. And I also did, I resented the fact that it was always controlled. And because of that, I would, it was almost like my way of saying, well, I'll do what I wanna do. And then because for various reasons, If our relationship ended, I, I sort of spiraled because, um, I ended up thinking my life was simple. I wasn't, I still wasn't happy with who I was as a person. Um, I wasn't enjoying my work anymore, which was gradually, I was reducing. I still had the work I was holding onto, but I was getting sloppier at it. My communication was terrible. Every area of my life went downhill. And with that, um, I just like, that, that was the point. I think there was like a switch in my mind where I thought, this is gonna be really hard to get back from. Like, this is the turning point. It's gonna be harder for me now. And I could recognize I'd become a person that I didn't like, that I really was ashamed of even more and more. And that was when it really kicked off. That's when I sort of, in my mind, had given up and thought, what's the point? Just, Do what you wanna do and who cares? Who cares if you die? Who cares if you, you know, that, that was the point that it became really bad.

Interesting. Which, you know, obviously I, I'm interviewing you as if I don't know all this stuff, but it's interesting. And I think that listeners might wanna pay attention to this, that you grew up in a controlling atmosphere. Your father was very controlling. And authoritative, right? Oftentimes, more often than not, really, we go and we date and/or marry our father.

That's amen.

Because it's comfortable. It's comfortable to be controlled. And so it's interesting, your partner tried to control your use, which made you, I'm sure triggered you, right? Probably reminded you of being controlled as a child. And it just made you wanna do it more and more, whereas kind of a rebellious thing. Is that right?

Yeah. Yeah. And I felt like it, I really didn't have a leg to stand on because all I kept thinking in my head was, well, I should've been controlled. You know, I am, I am a stupid addict that doesn't know when to stop. And then it just, it's like beating myself up about it and thinking like, I brought this on myself. That just makes it Yeah. It makes it even harder to deal with. You, you sort of, you're in a, in a mess in your head.

Yeah. So you, as a child, as, as a boy, you grow up rejecting that you're gay, right? And then now you're rejecting parts of yourself that you're ashamed of in terms of being an addict. You know, I'm a stupid addict anyway, so I'm going to go use because that's who I am. Right.

Yeah. And I think it's, for me it's important as well. It was important that finding drugs when I've had all of that sort of unhealed wounds within my childhood and myself, and it finally gave me the freedom to do and be who I wanted to be for a short period of time. It was, I was finally validated and I didn't wanna let it go.

Yeah.

Nobody that was going to stop me.

That's right. That's right. That's right. That's what happens with us. And, and I get asked a lot by guys about how can some guys just do it sometimes and some guys can't, most can't, right? And it's because so many of us are grown up feeling isolated, feeling like we don't belong, feeling self-loathing, all that shit. They're insecure, right? And then you do crystal meth and it all goes away. For the first time in your life, you feel free. So why wouldn't you want to keep doing that?

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Is that right?

Yeah, definitely. And it's like a, it's a double whammy as well because I think people that can take it or leave it, some of them I think are lying.

Absolutely.

Yeah, no.

Yeah.

And then I think You know, they're in denial, which is, you know, up to them, isn't it? And I think, I think that, yeah, if you've not had anything in your life that's cropped up that's meant that you, if you already feel validated and confident and you've, you've sort of, you're very happy and comfortable with yourself, I think it's already hard enough to control the use of crystal meth.

Yeah.

But I think to discover it when you've got those Problems within yourself already is a recipe for disaster. It's like, it's, you, you're playing with fire because it's, you've not only got the addictive way of the drug, but you've got all of those, all of the, that, that goes on inside you that secretly loves it, but also hates yourself for loving it. It's, it's not, yeah.

Yeah. And the other part about looking around and comparing yourself to others who might, they think they can use recreationally, you're also seeing them at a certain point on their journey. You're not seeing the full picture, right? Yeah. That happens too. Yeah.

Yeah. And there's a lot of things that aren't said as well, I think. I mean, I think I was quite an open book with my feelings and I could get quite emotional and, but I think some people were just really good at hiding how they actually feel. Like, I, I'd speak to a lot of people that say, I don't get comedowns from it. I used to think, like, you wake up the next day feeling as bright as the day.

I don't think that's absolutely the case. You're using the wrong shit then.

Yeah, it's not good enough.

One thing that you said that you didn't wanna go back to your life is, so is that another component of this? This was an escape from a life that maybe you weren't happy with?

Yeah. Definitely. I wasn't happy for a lot of reasons. And I don't, I don't blame anybody. I don't shift blame onto anything. And I just, I know I wasn't happy for lots of reasons. It's, yeah, it was definitely, it was definitely the way that I was self-medicating. As I think a lot of people do.

Okay. So we're going along here in your story. Was there a rock bottom? Or what was the catalyst for you to choose to say to yourself, I'm ready to stop?

For me, it was, it was a gradual process. It was almost like a winding down. I got myself into some situations which were really dangerous and quite scary involving other people, which you think, which I don't know how I even survived. And I look, and then I look at it. I ended up in hospital several times and was sort of unconscious for over a day that one time and was really ill. And all of those little things, I just was building up this picture of this is what my life is going to become.

Yeah.

It was, and it just got more intense each time. And then I started to notice that because I couldn't hide my addiction anymore, my family were noticing. People noticing. I could, I could almost feel the way that people could look and sense that I was either an addict or something seriously wrong. And it just didn't like, didn't hate it. The anxiety over it and what was going to be the next thing. It was like life is such a rollercoaster. There was drama all the time.

Mm-hmm.

Um, always having to watch your back, always worrying about everything, getting in your own head. And it was all of that that suddenly made me think. Like, I reached a point and thought, if I don't stop, I'm gonna be dead soon. I know for a fact I'm gonna, like, I mean, it's, it's either something really serious is going to happen that involves the police or somebody else, or I'm gonna end up dead. Seeing how quickly things had changed in my life, um, it got worse and worse. So at that point, something in, in my head each time was saying, you need to stop this. You need to stop this. You need to get help.

And then how did you stop? Or what was the process like? Was it easy? Was it difficult? What was the— What was the, I guess the, the most impactful step that you took to separate yourself from this addiction?

Oh, certainly it was for me, I'm, I'm an all or nothing sort of person. As soon as, well, actually what one thing which helped was that I had already decided I need to stop. And then I quite well, um, well timed for me, I then had a family trip to Australia. For 6 weeks, which meant that I couldn't use while I was there. I wasn't allowed to. And because of that, I thought to myself, well, I'm gonna go all that time without doing it. And I thought this would be a perfect time to stop now. And from that point on, I decided in my mind, no, enough is enough. It was a really, really difficult decision, even Even a couple of days up until I went, I was still going to parties, meeting people, taking it as much as I could. Um, no, I've got to be planning for it and terrible, but it was a good, just for me, that complete stop was good for me. Good for me.

6 weeks in Australia and then you came back. I will say probably one of the top 5 biggest triggers, maybe top 3 that I see, is when someone returns from a holiday. returns from a trip or a vacation and there's something about getting back, you know, I guess it's because you've, you've deprived yourself, you're getting back into your old environment. I don't know what it is, but when people get back from a trip, they go, you know, balls to the wall with it. So how did you react coming back after 6 weeks?

I did exactly that. And the whole trip I said to myself, nope. It, it, it's so good. I don't think I did it, I did it once after I got back. It was almost like the final hurrah.

Okay.

Um, it's everything. There is such, in your head you sort of say, you know, this, it's gonna be anything but my last. And yeah, I got back and I did it pretty much almost instantly. Like I said, it was a gradual process of, I'd already in my head decided I didn't want to, I didn't wanna carry on with it. It was I, I just viewed it as a blip and I think it wasn't too hard on myself about it either because I sort of, I thought to myself, well, it might, you know, it's gonna happen. It, it might happen. And if it does, then there's no point feeling that, that guilt. It's just gonna make it worse. I'd already been through enough of that.

Right. That's right. Yeah. There's a lot of, there's a lot of philosophy that you have adopted even before we met. That I've found to be very healthy, and that's one of 'em, is not lying to yourself and saying, I'm never using again. And we have, you know, I have a lot of guys who are afraid to say that because they feel like it's giving them permission to use, but it's not. It's being honest with yourself. And honesty is something that we haven't been, we haven't done, we haven't practiced in addiction, right? So leaving that open to say, I don't want to use again, but it could happen. And that really does alleviate a lot of the shame and guilt that could come from a relapse.

So, you know. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think it's like a lot of things in life. If you in your head believe that you can't have something, it makes you want it even more. So I think whatever it is in life, I think especially with that.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, it's all of the guilt and shame is what usually starts that addiction in the first place. So. That is an attitude adjustment, I think, is something which is really important as well with it.

Okay. So you went on your trip, you used once, but you, but you knew you were done in your heart. And so then what were your next steps in terms of why did you, were you searching for a recovery coach? Were you, what were, how did you stumble upon me and why were you thinking it might be helpful for your next step?

I, I knew I'd been sober for a little while, but I was teetering around the edge in, in the sense that I knew that I wasn't still that far off from being tempted and just deciding to, to stop and, and give up. And then I was flicking through TikTok and I, I just, I hadn't even really considered, I think, because these things can pick up your conversations. And I also talked to somebody about it and it, you popped up, you popped up on my screen.

Don't do that.

Yeah. And I was like, oh, he's the guy I need. And then messaged you straight away.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when we, we had our call that you expressed your, your biggest concern was that Life was so, so dull for you. You know, you've been away from the substance for a while, but your emotions were still in the gutter. Everything seemed droll and just bad and laborious. Life just seemed like you were trudging through. I remember that specifically. Is that how you lived your life most of the time?

Yeah. It was, it was really just a case of Just getting through it, just getting by. Uh, and that is when I look back, it was, it was the, the most difficult time to get through because it was just, it felt like you sort of, you've lost so much and then you're just sober with it. And to me, it's why I knew that I just needed to find a, a coach like, like you, because I thought if this carries on, if I don't get the support I need of somebody who understands and can guide me through this.

Yeah.

Then I don't, I, I don't know how I'm gonna, how I'm gonna get through this. I, I decided I definitely didn't wanna do it, but the thought of doing it alone was just terrifying. And the people around you are supportive, as supportive as they can be. It's not, they can't always give you what you need emotionally and, and support you and, and understand as well, like you do. So I think that was very important for me to, to find someone like you, like find you and, and And finally feel like I could just say what I want and, and open up and not feel judged. And it was very important. It's fucked, really.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I, you know, I hear that so often in that 50, 60, 70% of the whole healing process is just finding someone that you can openly share with that knows exactly where you've been. Because it doesn't matter if you've done crystal meth and Oklahoma or Birmingham, England. You know, it's basically the same thing. You know, it's the same effects, it's the same life. You still— your life comes off the rails and, you know, etc. Except you do, you know, you do things you're embarrassed about that you don't want to tell your therapist that you, you know, pissed in somebody's— you drank somebody's piss or, you know, whatever it is that you do in these things, you know, that you took 5 or 50 loads in one night or whatever it is, you know, it's, you have to be in a space where you're comfortable saying that and knowing that the person across from you did the same thing, right?

Yeah. It makes every difference. Um, it really does because it's almost like a very niche, not niche, but meth and, and, uh, skellies. Yes. It's, it's something which is its own almost specialist thing that needs attention.

Right.

So, but what you do is very important. Yeah.

Thank you. And what you're doing right now is very important, Alex. And you stepping into your power over the last 6 months and, you know, you've, the change in you is just remarkable. It's been such an honor to watch.

I was a very big mess. Still am sometimes.

You, you know, yes, your life was dull. Your business was, I wouldn't, I don't know if it was failing, but it certainly wasn't thriving. You've had to start that from scratch. Um, you had this, you know, we haven't, I don't wanna, you know, unless you're, you're open to it, go too far into it. But when we met, you were still in the same house as this control partner. Controlling partner that you mentioned, you know, and that whole, that, that dynamic, you know, is, is so difficult for someone. How can you move on when you're fa— you know, when you're looking at your past every day? And, uh, a ton of our work was around you, you really finding your voice and using your voice. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I think that's what talking with, with you about things is where, you know, you don't always, when you're in a situation that you, you are a part of, you can't see everything clearly. So it was so helpful to be able to communicate with you what I was feeling, what was going on, and for you to almost take a step back approach where you can see, you know, in here and then be able to To be able to give advice and help and listen with that, because you, you can't do that with family and friends. That's usually people, everybody's emotionally tied and it's, it's sometimes difficult. So to have an outside party to feel can be a shoulder to cry on and, and offer support is, is really, is really nice.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Somebody, I try to be as objective and bi— and unbiased as possible, but also There were some times when we had to be real, right? And I had to say, you know, this partner is your dad, right? You know, just to show you patterns. And as you are beginning to get yourself back out there, which you're very, you know, I have to say you're very smart and wise about your approach in terms of you didn't jump back into the dating field. You know, you didn't listen to your dick and say, yeah, but I need sex. You know?

Yeah.

You really have been deliberate and mindful about this time I'm not repeating mistakes, right? This time I'm stepping up, I'm using my voice, I know what my boundaries are, and I, by God, I'm gonna keep 'em. Is that right?

I feel like for me personally, focusing on myself in every area that I could and Finding yourself. I think for a lot of, I mean, I presume it's the same for a lot of gay guys who will take meth. You, you're trying to fill a void that, that's never, you're trying to feel fulfilled in a way you never have done before. So to work on yourself and to look within is so beneficial. And it, well, was for me. And it, it doesn't take that long. You have to be patient with it, but just putting the work in.

Yeah.

Really makes a difference with how you interact with people and how things move forward and your own, your own happiness. So for me, that was important.

How do you work on yourself? What does your practice look like?

I question things a lot more. I question, I think there's a big part of me that used to accept that what I was told must be right, or I, I wouldn't, uh, allow things to happen in my life with people. But I think questioning things and Looking into the real reasons as to why you've taken actions that you have in your life and finding out, like how you've helped me to reflect on why I've done things I've done and, and all those sorts of things. I think it's very interesting. What a long-term plan. Uh, yeah.

Yeah. I think, I mean, you don't even have to say anything else really. Questioning, you know, that's, that's a big job there. That's a big practice, questioning everything, you know, because your recovery route has been yours to create and you were not told by someone else, you have to do this, you have to do that, you have to follow this, you have to follow that. You've, you've really been instrumental in discovering and deciding what your, what your route, what your practices are here, uh, and what you're going to do. And I think that comes a lot from that religious upbringing of being told you must believe this and you must live this way. So now you're kind of, you're, you're on the opposite spectrum here of I'm deciding what sobriety means to me and I'm deciding what recovery looks like. And I'm going to question everything everyone tells me. You questioned me. You questioned, you know, I tried not to say do this or do that. Sometimes I do. But you, you know, you questioned me a lot, which was great. I loved it. I loved it cuz it showed me that you're thinking, you're thinking on your own, you're becoming your own person.

I think as well, it's almost like I, as, as difficult as it is to recover and obviously still Or whilst recovering, it's the, one of the positives is that you almost rediscover yourself. I think as soon as you've learned that you've got these things you need to sort out internally in your mind and you actually address them, you realize actually you can have a life and achieve things that you couldn't, never thought of before. So it's, it's like a catalyst to better things. If you, if you embrace it, you can.

Yeah.

You can feel so much stronger and more confident and happier in, in your life and the decisions you make. And that's the way that I viewed it, which just helped me a bit more recently. I couldn't see it at first, but then recently I've, you know, all those, all those things which are, you view as awful actually are what makes you become very successful in your life, I think. So there's a power to it.

Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I love that very much. Thank you. Yeah. You know, one thing with you that we, you know, is common with a lot of men here is that it's a perspective shift. It's all about perspective shift is how can, like you said, things that you don't like about yourself or the things that you think are challenges, the things that you think are impossible. How can I see those differently? How can I see me differently? What is the good here? You know, what is this trying to show me? Um, I did a lot of that, a lot of that kind of questioning too.

Yeah. Because I think, yeah, the, the addiction is, is really just the result of all of those things, isn't it? It's scratching away all of that is actually where the work is. So. Yeah, it's, uh, it's definitely worth it. Tundra, when I started with you 6 months ago, I'd have said, like, I just couldn't have seen it. I just couldn't see it. I didn't see the hope, but then it, it gets so much better.

Yeah. And you know, I remember it took some days, it took breaking down every little situation, like a smart-ass woman in your job, you know, with your business, a smart-ass customer. woman, and that, that situation would derail you, right? For the whole day, the spiral that happened, it would go into, you know, I hate my job, I hate my life, I'm a failure, you know, from just one smartass bitch, you know?

Yeah.

Um, and so, so, you know, together we broke that down and unpacked, unpeeled. Until you were able to develop some skills that would able, you were able to view that instance for what it was, protect, you know, your sovereignty or your, your wellbeing. You didn't let those things affect you anymore. And what that did was open so much space for you.

Yeah.

To, to work on yourself, to be happy, to see the world in a different way, to build your business, to build your life.

Yeah. Yeah. You, you've, you've really helped me to see everything on a deeper level and on a real, real level as well, which I didn't always get, you know, to cut through the crap and to, to analyze things. Yeah. It's, it's what everybody needs to do. I mean, even people that haven't had an addiction, I think if everybody did that, it would make everybody's life so much easier.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So as you are graduating from Recovery Alchemy, as you're graduating from the coaching program and you're moving forward, what does your, do you have a daily practice? Do you have a daily routine? And what is next for you? Have you thought, have you thought about that?

A little bit. My daily routine, it's always a bit all over the place because I'm, I'm I feel like to be, to live at the moment. But I mean, it's generally, it's generally that I'll, I'll wake up and rush to get to work and then I'll just usually work till 5. And it's more, I'd say what's very important for me is I'm, because I'm an afternoon and evening person, when it gets to late afternoon, I love to try and, I used to struggle to relax. That was a big thing for me. And now I make sure I take the time after work So sit down and I love spending time with family and, and then I'll make sure now that I've got some time in the evening to myself where I can reflect on things and think about how the day's gone and, and be grateful as well. And then, as you know, I meditate each evening, which has been, which has really helped a lot as well. So yeah, that's my routine, I guess. And then what's the other thing that I would—

Yeah. But before we go there, I also wanna touch on the meditation thing. That was a work that, that was a practice that we worked on too, because like many people, you were, were kind of hesitant about meditation, had a different idea about what it took, you know? And, and we worked on some ways to just observe your thoughts. And now you've taken this to this whole new level where you're meditating like an hour a night.

Every night. Meditative. If you said to me like a year ago, you'd be off drugs and you'd be meditating at night, I'd say, oh, fuck.

Wow. No.

Yeah. Like, it's, it's great. And I think, yeah, meditating is very, has been very helpful. I think everybody should meditate. Um, because it's, especially if you've got a very fast-paced mind or you've got, you've got a lot of anxiety or a lot of worries, it's a really good way to just relax and be and I would feel at one with everything, and it's just really, it's really helped me to slow down in a lot of ways. Helped with my sleep as well, because I think that sleep is something that suffers as well, especially if you're recovering from meth. Sleep patterns struggle. So to do that's great. Sure.

Good. Okay, so what's next for you? What's the next chapter of Alex's life like?

I don't know.

I have no plans. Well, we know what it Doesn't consist of, right?

Sorry.

And we know what it doesn't consist of.

Yeah.

Crystal meth.

Yeah.

We can start there.

Yeah. No, so that's like, that life's behind me now. I'm really, I'm at a point where I'm just ready to embrace new things and I, it feels like I'm finishing at the perfect time because I, I'm ready to embrace new things, but I don't know what's in front of me really. Um, and I'm trying not to force it too much and put pressure on ourselves.

So, right. That's right. That's right. Yeah, exactly. You, you've really, like I said, you've, you, you've been deliberate and intentional about each step you've taken. And at times I felt impatient, but you knew what you were doing all along. You knew, you know, you were going to do it when you felt ready to do it, and it was exactly the right thing to do. And you are trying new things, you're making new friends. And, um, you know, I, I'm just really excited and, uh, thrilled to watch what's next for you. And of course we'll stay in touch. Of course we'll stay in touch. We don't, we don't end things now.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

Thank you a lot. But again, like, I couldn't have done it without, you know, it's been amazing seeing program that we've been through, and I know I couldn't have done it without you, so thank you.

Well, thank you, but you could have. You did it. You did the work, but I appreciate it. I was, I was, it was an honor to, to help and to facilitate this for you. And really makes me, just gives me even more incentive and strength and excitement and drive to see, just to see the change. I wish we could have recorded, and maybe I'll start doing this with new clients. Record a Zoom at the beginning.

Yeah.

Record it again and then again at the end. Really compare and contrast. 'Cause I wish, I wish the world could have seen you in that state. Yeah. Maybe not. Might be cheering, right?

Yeah.

Ah, well, thank you so much, Alex. Appreciate your time. Thanks for the kind words. And for you listening, if you're interested in one-on-one coaching with me, there's a link, there's gonna be a link in the show notes. There's a link everywhere you could possibly imagine on any social media platform. I am there, Dr. Dallas Bragg, or just shoot me a DM and we could talk about what that consists of. But once a week Zoom, 6 months, and now we have an opportunity for you to actually have a group call too, once a week for an hour and a half with other men who are in the same boat. That being said, thanks for joining us if you've listened this far, and we'll talk soon.