Bonus Episode: From Slamming to Sober: Alex's Story

Okay, I'm here with one of my clients, Alex. Alex is 2 weeks away, I guess, from graduating from Recovery Alchemy. Can't believe it's already been 6 months together. But Alex was someone who it took me a while to be convinced to bring him on, only because I just didn't think that I was the right fit. I didn't think I was qualified. Typically, the clients that come to this program are high-functioning. They're using— some of them use every 2 weeks, some once a month, some once every 3 months. A couple of times there's been some guys who come to us who smoke a little every day. They're the ones that do it mainly for energy, focus. They're basically using it as an Adderall. And we're talking about crystal meth, obviously. But I don't take people, men who are on the severe side of use, because typically that they're better off going to a treatment center. But Alex and his mother were very, very convincing, very persistent, and really believed that this program could help. So Alex came to us slamming. If you don't know what slamming is, it's IV use. It's injecting, injecting crystal meth. About 0.7 a day. That was an estimate on your part, right? About 0.7 a day. And we were able to work with him to taper off a point a week until it went down to zero. And then he was able to get his mother to help through the withdrawals, the comedown. That is, of course, something that I can't do as a virtual counselor. coach right now. Now, in the future, I do plan to have maybe home stays or have people do that for others. But right now, we're not capable of doing that. So that was something else that was a caveat that helped me agree to taking Alex on is that he had his mother, someone there to help through the comedown. And if you don't have anybody to help through that, then you could also maybe check yourself into a detox or something like that. But today, I just want to go— I want to give Alex an opportunity to share his story because, you know, he's able to quit. He was able to quit slamming every day on his own with our support, of course. And now we're looking at 4 months, 4 months meth-free. He's able to see his son again. He's working again. His life has turned around. And so I just thought this was definitely a story that we want to to get out there. And, you know, part of Alex's recovery journey is to share. So Alex, thank you for being here.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, I guess we'll start. I need to start from my childhood to kind of explain this. There was some molestation that happened when I was 5 years old over the course of about a year. And this, at the time, I didn't know why it was wrong, but I knew it was wrong. So I kept that a secret that I vowed to never tell anybody because I thought that it made me wrong or bad somehow, that I had done something wrong. And so, yeah, so I grow up with this secret. I have an okay childhood. My dad had drug and alcohol issues as well that I had to deal with basically by myself. My brother left the nest as soon as he could because I guess he could see the the writing on the wall there before anything bad happened. So, you know, I went through some stuff with him during my childhood, and obviously that created some trauma as well as the molestation. Fast forward, I guess, to 19 years old. My whole teenage years, I vowed to never drink or do drugs because of what my dad had gone through. And so I didn't touch anything till about the age of 19. At that point, I was in a band with people that were 6, 7 years older than me. I'd been playing the bars with my brother's ID because I was 16 at the time when I joined that band. So yeah, when I was 19, I tried alcohol and weed for the first time. Basically fell in love with weed, but what I also tried was Adderall. And the first time I took Adderall, I was like, okay, I feel, I think how normal people should feel. I'm not riddled with anxiety. I can have a conversation without freaking out on the inside. I can be social. I feel confident. And so without being prescribed Adderall, developed, you know, basically a weekend warrior addiction with it where I would, you know, buy 5 to 10 pills and take them over the course of Friday through Sunday. Hmm. And while doing this, discovered like websites like Craigslist, for instance. And so being being on Adderall, I was I guess. You know, it, it would make me, I guess, super turned on every single time in, in like a, like a hyper sexual type of way. And so I would get on Craigslist and start with like the ladies and I think I got either scammed or duped enough times to know that like those weren't real or I didn't have money to pay for whatever services they were offering. That I, you know, I switched over to the men's side and being on Adderall sort of Brought back the memories of my molestation back in a way that, uh, I sort of looked at it like being pleasurable and wanting to recreate this in a weird way. Um, recreate? I guess the molestation. Okay.

Yeah, it just back to How did that molestation affect you? Do you feel like the molestation was connected to, you described yourself as very anxious, difficult to have conversations. It sounds like you, the way you describe it, it sounds like you were on edge throughout your childhood, teenage years, and then when you discovered Adderall. You said you could start having conversations again and you weren't so riddled with anxiety. I mean, is that, is that the state of consciousness that you grew up in?

No.

Okay.

No. So are you, are you meaning this when I, when I would take the Adderall, is that the state of consciousness I grew up in?

No, that, that, that anxious, the—

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. That is, that is the exact mind state of, I, how I guess, yeah, how I would express how that felt growing up.

So. Do you think you were, did it feel like you were living in fear? Because it sounds like a lot of, this sounds like complex trauma that if you're always, you know, always living in fear, always living in anxiety, Your system, I guess, never really rested.

Yeah.

And it, it was always OCD in a way.

I would have to blink my eyes in a certain way or do certain taps or say a certain mantra in my head a certain amount of times for something bad not to happen. Wow. I've since grown out of that, thank God. But that was kind of crippling when I was I guess elementary school age. Um, so yeah, uh, the, when, when I found Adderall, it calmed all of that down. Mm-hmm. And like the self-doubt and like the, um, yeah, the self-deprecating thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of softened or quieted.

Had you told anyone about the molestation at that point?

No.

Okay.

So this was all something you had to live with all alone?

Yep. So this is all internal and then, uh, find Craigslist. And so I start, uh, looking for men and, you know, they would reply pretty quickly and before you know it, I had my first hookup. Um, And I guess the way I would describe that is it being so, so under wraps and in the closet that it like was that much more enticing. So, I mean, I mean, that jump-started the whole thing in that. So I do that till, I mean, long story short, I do that till, um, till about the age of 31 or 32.

Hmm.

Um, and in the meantime, I had met my now ex-wife. Um, and I was, I was pretty lost when I met her, I guess, in a sense, you know.

Yeah.

And when I found her, I like adopted this big old friend group and like things just really felt like, okay, this is where I'm supposed to be. This is who I'm supposed to be. And it doesn't matter because nobody knows about any of the other shit. I've never told anybody about it, you know. In some in some way, half convinced myself that it would stop after, you know, getting with my ex. You know, sadly, that didn't happen, and I. Have this long bond, but also traumatic relationship with her. We have a full-term stillbirth stillbirth of a baby boy in 2016 that was so unexpected and so shocking that we trauma bonded pretty hard over that. Um, and bought a house basically right after it happened and got married. Um, and just, you know, I, I wouldn't say I was faking my life with her in any sense, 'cause I think I was pretty genuine.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, in a lot of aspects. But behind the scenes, I'm still taking massive amounts of Adderall at this time, probably up to 20 to 30 pills a weekend of either 20 milligram or 30 milligram pills, which I would just binge eat for 3 days and not even really getting that high anymore.

Hmm.

Um, so you were taking these mini pills while married?

Yeah.

Okay. Behind her back, I'm, I'm guessing?

Yeah. Friday through Sunday and, and Monday through Thursday would be normal at the house with her cooking.

Huh.

Um, yeah. The only thing I would do during the weekdays was smoke weed. Um, and then weekends would come and we were big partiers. Like we had a huge friend group. So her and I would party like most, we would party every single weekend the first probably 6 years, 7 years of our relationship. Um, and so—

Party as in drinking together?

Exactly. Just Yeah, drinking, drinking with friends, cocaine sometimes, you know. Okay. Uh, just like average party shit. Yeah. Um, so I don't think that she really noticed because she was kind of partying. She, she was just like in on the weekend too, you know. Um, and Uh, yeah, sorry, I lost my train of thought.

Um, well, let me ask you, you mentioned, you mentioned the Craigslist hookups that they lasted from 19 to 31. They were in secret, they were seedy, they were behind everyone's back. You were, you kind of alluded to, and maybe I misread it, but you kind of alluded to the fact that because of the nature of the hookups, it was still felt like you were reenacting the molestation because it was Also private and, you know, taboo and wrong, you know, quote unquote wrong. But the, this kind of sex through the, through the Craigslist was actually kind of reenacting that. Is that, is that right?

Yeah. And I think, I guess, um, I guess making thoughts, because I, you know, obviously growing up after the molestation would have, I guess, fantasies about it in some capacity. Sorry, I lost my train of thought again. What were we talking about?

Well, I was asking if the, the type of sex from Craigslist Because it was, uh, forbidden, secret, dark, seedy kind of thing. Was that your way of reenacting the molestation?

Yes. Yes.

That I think was itching the, the, the spot that I had been like searching for, I guess, in a weird way. Okay.

And the Adderall obviously made me feel, um, okay about doing it.

In a, in a, in a way that my sober brain could not get there, I guess. Yeah. But it obviously had thought about getting there, you know, even before knowing what, uh, any sort of upper was, you know.

Okay.

So, okay.

Okay. All right. So You were still doing that in secret. You're a weekend warrior Adderall user. You get married. You still continue to be a weekend warrior Adderall user even more.

Um, yeah, even more so. Yeah.

It was easy because you guys were drinking, having a good time on the weekends.

Yeah.

And I would, I would do a lot of stuff for the house and like for her on the weekends. Like, so I would get shit done in the daytime and then we'd party at nighttime and then Some, sometime between like either the wee hours of the morning or like quote unquote going to the grocery store on a Saturday would be like when I was seeking to, you know, hook up or whatever. Like Friday night, Saturday, Sunday. Okay.

So you—

Any, any spot I could in that, in those 3 days.

Gotcha. Were you, were you still having sex with your wife?

Yeah. Yeah, I, it's not a, I think, proud thing to say because how I think potentially unsafe I could have made it.

Sure. Yeah. You're, you know, you wouldn't be the first or the last. Yeah. I mean, it is what it is.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right. So this is happening, this is going on. So I'm guessing there must have been There, there, there had to have been some type of, uh, revelation from on her part, something to bring all this to the surface, because there always is. Yeah. Everything we try to do in the dark comes to the light eventually, right?

Well, um, I think she obviously, so let me go, let me rewind a little bit. Um, We, I mentioned our stillbirth and then we had our son, Rye, in 2021. And at 3 months, he was diagnosed with a rare blood condition called LCH that he had to basically immediately start receiving chemo for, for the next Basically a year.

Oh.

Um, so that was kind of another thing in our relationship that we're like, goddamn, what the fuck is going on? Like another type thing. And so by this time, I don't know how to handle my emotions. I don't know my kind of what my emotions are. I'm so lost on the inside because Of how deep of a fucking hole I'm in, uh, with my conscience because of how much I've done and how much Amy doesn't know and how much I'm continuing to do to forget about what I'm doing. Um, to, uh, I, I go to this one hookup some, some weekend, some average weekend in March. I think it was the weekend of March 9th. I don't know how I remember that. Um, but he invites me in and he's like, do you party? And I'm like, yeah, I fucking party. Because I'm like, I've done everything, you know what I mean? I hadn't done meth or heroin yet, you know.

Yeah.

But I'm like, yeah, I fucking party, whatever, dude. And I'm so low at this point in my life and I'm like, Fucking give me whatever you got, bud. Yeah, right.

Bring it here.

I don't give a shit. And he gives me this pipe and I'm like, naively, I'm like, ah, this isn't, this isn't fucking meth, whatever. This isn't meth. I'm smoking it. And fully knowing that it is meth, you know. But like creating this denial in myself that kind of fuels me through the next 10 months of addiction. Um, but I, yeah, I smoke it with him and then proceed to have crazy, like good sex for like 3, 4 hours.

Hmm.

And I was just like fully enamored and didn't wanna leave. And was like, what the fuck? Like, I was so kind of on a pink cloud that like I, and I was so high that like the next day I called into work and then like was ab hunting that whole next day just in parking lots. Trying to find somewhere to go. Yeah. And it was just like, wow, that fucking was the, that was the coolest drug I've ever done. Yeah. Like I, I went for 2 days straight, like felt fucking great. Um, and then I had his number and he lived literally 2 blocks away.

Wow.

So. This— what, what started as a weekend thing started becoming every Sunday before work into Monday morning at his house before going up to work.

Oh, wow.

For a minute, I guess that I, I would say that my only consistent hookup was this dude.

Yeah.

Um, and I think one Because of what he brought to the table with the meth and stuff. And 2, I don't— I didn't know where to get it at the time and I had never asked for it. And this is only— this is 2022. Like, I'm late to the game as far as using, but I went super hard, super fast.

Hmm.

So yeah, I think this continued like spotty For the next couple months. And then I would find different people that would have it and then I would start buying it from these people. And I was like so naive still. I wasn't, I was smoking it out of those like cannabis vape pens. Yeah.

That just have like a heated coil or whatever.

Yeah. And I was like getting It's kind of there. And then somehow found out that they, they sold those glass pieces at a gas station that has a drive-through right next to my house. So once I found that and a torch, I was like, okay, I can do this every day now.

Hmm.

I can do this every day now, but now I have to figure out what my mission is and what I want to do. In some weird way. And so I was consumed with like weekend projects and stuff. Like 3 months in, my son was gonna turn 1 and we were doing a bunch of stuff to the backyard for the party in the backyard. And that weekend we were having it, like I was working late in the yard. But also still smoking in the shed in the backyard. And this is just kind of a weird off story, but I just saw the basically red eyes through the fence line, got all paranoid, blew sage at it, and then basically from that point on was like, haunted by these red-eyed demons that would only come out at night.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I basically went crazy in front of Amy, and I broke down to her, told her I took too much acid in the backyard and like I attracted these entities.

Mm.

And as soon as I told her that, she like, she was trying to just grasp at what I was— because I would like sit in the house and be like, I Can't you hear them? Can't you hear them screaming and growling outside? And she's like, Alex, that's a fucking car driving by. And so she did that and it snapped me out of it in the moment. And I'm like, oh, I don't know if this is real or not, but like, that is weird, psychotic, crazy bullshit that's gonna get you caught right now.

Yeah.

So I think maybe she had an inkling when that happened that like, what is going on?

Um, so we'll jump back into, um, I'm probably 10 months into, uh, the addiction, um, using every day, just smoking, um, or snorting. Um, And I get— I work, um, construction, uh, like building houses in a ski town in Park City. So my hands are really rough. I get like a small cut on my thumb that I super glue, and I'm up late that night and it just starts throbbing.

Hmm.

And to the point where I have to wake Amy up and we go to the hospital. And while in the hospital, while we're trying to figure out what is going on, she goes through my phone and finds Grindr and all the drug dealers. And basically the secret and basically the stuff I thought I was going to go to my grave with, I was revealed basically to my To my partner in one, one swipe of the Band-Aid. And, um, I think like within 12 hours everyone in my family and close friends knew. Um, and basically from there spent about a week in the hospital. Um, for sepsis. I think it's obviously because my immune system was so run down from, from using every day. From there, I get right out of the hospital, go straight into a, a 45-day rehab facility. Um, and when I'm in there, my aunt who works in the rehab circuit here in Salt Lake City gets me a scholarship to a 3-month, um, inpatient treatment center called Balance House.

Okay.

So I go 45 days, um, in one treatment center straight to 3 months, 90 days in another inpatient treatment center, basically starting over. Because by the end of my first treatment, I had my phone back, I could leave the premises and come back. So I go through that 90 days and start their, so like sober housing programs, like There's like a tier two, tier three, and tier four. I make it through tier two, get a car back. I'm feeling, I guess, as okay as I can at that point. It's still really fresh and like really hard to navigate with with Amy. Yeah. And I get I. Pass through tier number 2, get to tier number 3, and get a job. And basically I'm in there for maybe a month, a month and a half till, um, till I, I, I get my first craving. I would say this is like the first time that I'm like left alone. Because everyone has jobs, everyone's in and out of the house, like, like a normal place, you know. So, um, this is like the first time where I'm finding myself alone and kind of bored and kind of like, well, maybe I can— you know, I don't, I don't necessarily know what I was thinking. My plan was to try and hook up without using.

Hmm.

To— I don't know, I think in the back of my mind, it was just to get to using so that I could continue. Not continue, but like, just escape the reality that I've put myself in so far.

And the reality was that you've been outed, basically.

Yeah.

Right. Your wife would assume that you're actually gay because of what she saw, Grindr on your phone.

Yeah.

Right.

Um, I'm assuming you were— I mean, you, you had been hooking up with men for a while with, with meth, so you may be confused about your own sexuality at that point. Was that brought up with you and Amy as you're going through the rehab facilities? Was that brought up in rehab with your counselors, or was that swept under the rug?

Um, I, I think in the 3-month, uh, inpatient treatment, we tried to, as best we could, tackle what was going on. I think she, out of all my therapists, did the best job of— because I think she had the longest time with me, which, you know, You get more work done the longer you work with somebody. Um, Yeah. But as far as with Amy, we had like maybe 1 or 2, um, couple sessions. And, um, you know, I, I just really didn't get to talk to her about really much because I was in the rehab without my phone. I could do 1 call every morning, and that was to talk to Ry.

So And Rye is your son?

Yes, Rye is my son. And so skip back to where I'm in Tier 3, and I go to try and have this encounter, and immediately there's the pipe, and I hit it immediately without even thinking. One, because I guess that I had gotten what I came for immediately. And two, to then engage in the sex without feeling any sort of way about it, because at that point you're high and then that doesn't really matter. And so I did that and sort of immediately started freaking out, looked up ways to how to pass a drug test because I'm in. Still in this strict sober housing. And, you know, I find on Reddit that you can drink baking soda, like, right before you do the test, and it will trick the test for passing for meth. So I did that. I did that and it worked. I'm like, nice. Okay, cool. You had your one slip up, you can never do it again. And at that point, I'm already done because I'm already doing secrets again, you know?

Right.

So yeah, and so not long after, I'm like, well, fuck, if I can pass the test, I'll just do it. And so I do it, and I get about 2 weeks in using every day again in a sober living facility, and they finally like The baking soda trick, like I think the meth in my system had caught up to that point where it's like there's so much in there that it's just gonna fail no matter what. And they catch me because one of my tests looked fishy, so they took it to a lab. They sent me down, have a talking to. They send me back to tier two for like two weeks. And then I come back to Tier 3 for probably 3 weeks and relapse right again, um, for about 2 weeks.

And this time they're like, yeah, you're, you're out, you're done.

So, um, at that point I packed up my stuff, went straight to my dealer's house, and basically, uh, made him teach me how to slam.

Oh, wow.

Um, wow.

So were you ever having sex with men without meth?

Um, mostly, I think the majority of it in the younger years was with Adderall, and then, right, um, starting in 2022, right, the meth— the meth honestly isn't very long.

Yeah.

Um, in the grand scheme of things, but Yeah. So yeah, I, I learned how to slam and then I have— I just, I don't talk to anybody.

I shut my mom out.

I'm not talking to Amy, obviously. And I'm burning up all my money. I stay in these hotels while also like having sex. Paying for prostitutes, like the whole nine yards. Um, and finally that ends because I come— like, it all ends always because I come to my mom's. She's always like, uh, the safe haven that I can kind of crash.

Mm-hmm.

And come down, uh, a place where I can do that. So Mm-hmm. I do that and, um, I, from there, moved to a different sober living, um, which I hate. And I'm just, I like, I don't like the roommates there. It's really like my, I guess, mental health is teetering at this point. Have another sort of one-night relapse in that place. They give me a warning, and after after that place, I convinced myself that getting an apartment by myself is going to be the best thing for me. And so, you know, I, I do that, um, and I'm in there from like probably October to December. And maybe 2, 3 weeks in, I fully relapse in that place and finally have a place that I can have to do this stuff at, you know.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and that's another 3-week relapse. Um, in, in that time, I like overamped so bad that I'd taken myself to the hospital like 4 or 5 times in a night.

One time, I think. Mm-hmm.

And, um, and at this point, I'm just not getting high anymore. So it's like another breaking point. I get on a plane, I go to California for rehab for another, I think, 60 days.

Hmm.

Um, and then I get back home and I meet my roommate who I live with now. Um, have a good first 4 months with him being sober, and the first year of trying to get sober, I think I had 7 months total.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and then, uh, this time around I have another 4 months and then another relapse happens. Um, and then it's just kind of on, on and off small relapses for the rest of the year. Um, and then I sober up around the 1st of December, around Thanksgiving actually, um, and continue till about right after Christmas. And then this was my last relapse, which was about 4 months. Mm-hmm.

And, and that one was—

I, I think it was the perfect cocktail because I obviously was still so low in my life. No self-esteem, no love for myself, no confidence.

Uh, my mom goes out to Mexico for like a month and a half and I'm house-sitting her house.

So there again, there's another door that I have. Or another place to at least do one of my things at. Yeah. And, you know, and I think this one was just so low and so dark, and I really did not care about anything. The amounts that I were do— the amounts that I was doing, it were Just absolutely astronomical, blew every other relapse out of the water. And then soon after my mom gets back from Mexico, she finds out that I had relapsed and I somehow convince her to be like, look, Mom, I've been using so much, like I can't just fucking cold turkey stop.

Yeah.

Like, it will destroy me. And I, I knew it would because it had in the past, and that those were far, uh, shorter relapses, you know. Um, and so she knows about my relapse now and knows that I'm actively using, and that's when she finds, uh, you, Dallas, and starts a dialogue with you. And yeah, first of all, like, thank you for even taking this, this case on because I don't know, it seems so bleak even looking at like the paperwork for, yeah, like an application going into this sort of thing, you know?

So yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You were just— I want to ask a couple of questions. So The rehab you were in with the tiers, you would get to Tier 3. What was different about Tier 3 that made you relapse? Was it the, the autonomy of having your own job and being left alone more?

Yeah, I think it was the freedom and the boredom. And, um, so I get— I guess through this whole period of starting rehab, I'm put on all sorts of different SSRIs.

Oh, okay.

And, um, and I actually took a blood test in California and it came back saying that none of the SSRIs were like compatible with my body, essentially. Um, and so this whole first year, year and a half of trying to get sober, I think The SSRIs, I think, helped in the beginning to not make it seem so doom and gloom. But at a certain point, I'm just feeling nothing. I am sober, sure, but I have nothing to look forward to. I still hate myself. I'd have no confidence. I've destroyed my entire old life, which is still to this day, like, really hard to navigate.

Your old life in terms of your marriage and your son, right?

My marriage and my son, and just like the whole—there's just a whole friend group that goes along with that. So, so yeah, I think the difference this time is obviously we—I was drawn to this because it's. basically catered to exactly what I'm going through. Yeah. Um, and my mom's like, should we try it? I'm like, I don't know what else we would try. Like, this is, I think, the only option that at least I will feel heard at, you know, and not judged. Yeah. So yeah.

So what do you think we're missing? What do you think was missing from the treatment centers you went to?

Um, you know, they're very just like, like they— it's really vague of what they treat, you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

And what you talk about is very generic. And I'm glad that I had those places to, um, at least detox that and Um, separate myself from everything to like kind of really shake you and be like, all right, well, what you were doing was clearly ruining everything. Um, and so, uh, shoot, I lost my train of thought.

Well, the treatment centers You, you were saying that you felt—

Yeah, so I mean, they, they helped, I guess, to, to a certain extent. And again, if you're only there for 45 days, you have like maybe 5 sessions with a therapist, and you're barely even scratching any sort of surface. And they have 50 other clients, you know what I mean? So, um, you're trying to I guess in those therapy sessions, I sessions I was really being the most honest I could be because at that point I was caught. So I had no problem telling these people in a rehab like all the shit that I had done, what my deal was type of thing. And I that really helped me too because that's the first time I'm telling anybody about you know this stuff in a face-to-face setting. So Um, I think those aspects were good, but again, like, I just would go into treatment and then come out and like, I guess the goal would be like sober days. And at that point I'm just counting days. But, you know, I just feel so lost at this point because I felt like, I mean, in, on paper I had the perfect life. I was, you know, shit was going good. And, and I basically just flipped my whole entire script. And now I'm like, what the fuck? Who even am I? What, you know? So yeah, they, they helped to a certain extent. But you You guys have been through it personally, the exact same situations. Like, especially you, Dallas. Like, yeah, slamming is like the net. It's the end-all be-all. Yeah. And once you do that, like, it's— your relationship with meth is forever changed. Yeah.

Yeah. So you're right. You're right.

You took your already superhero power thing and like multiplied it by a million.

So yeah.

So what do you think? What do you think kept taking you back to it? What were you getting out of it? And especially when you start slamming every day, like, what are you thinking? What are you— why are you turning to it? Why do you need it?

I mean, I think it's just— it's the ultimate escape. Because once I'm high, then the things that should matter don't matter anymore.

Hmm.

All the stressors, all the anxiety, it's gone because I don't care anymore, um, about anything.

Hmm.

And it's about immediate gratification, what I need right now. Um, and I mean, at a certain point during this relapse, it was like, I have to slam to even get up the fuck out of bed.

Ooh.

And like, because I would, you know, I would eventually crash out. Um, and once my body does that, I wouldn't wake up till 12 or 1, and then that's way past the time I'm supposed to be at work. So like, obviously my job goes away that fast.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, yeah, I just— I've never had a substance grab me by the throat and basically like make me bow to it as I watch my whole life burn.

Wow.

Nothing, nothing I can do about it. Just watch from the window as I keep doing the thing.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. What a description. Um, Yeah, so your mom did find us and asked, and she did let me know that you were using daily and you were using IV daily. And I really put her off and I told her that I couldn't help you because I don't ever want to— I don't wanna step out of my pay grade, my skill level, right? Because most of the men that come to me are high-functioning men with— they, they're— they have jobs. They— a lot of them have— some of them have families. Um, they're in the last stages of it, right, where they, they may be— they may be using every 2 weeks, but they're still— they're still functioning. But no one ever comes to me slamming.

Yeah.

You were like the first one that, that was like every day, and you were estimated about 0.7. Is what you were, you were slamming at the time. Is that, is that about right?

It's probably an undercut estimate. I'm sure it was like anywhere from— because I was legitimately trying to taper down, but there were some days that, you know, I would slam fucking 2 7.5s in a 3-hour period. And then, you know, like, Yeah, some days were like, I'm just trying to die right now.

Like, yeah, wow.

Really just trying to go out. This is the only thing I can think of without, you know, I don't know, being that low, but also having no love for yourself and also no confidence. I'm not really trying to kill myself like with a gun. But like, if I don't wake up after this slam, fucking let's do it.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. What a, what a cycle. So what made you decide then? Like, what was it about? What was it about this program that made you decide, okay, I'm gonna stop? Because when we started again, like, I wasn't sure. Um, I wouldn't, but after I talked to you, I mean, You were surprisingly coherent, I will say, for somebody who was slamming every day. I mean, you were, you were not all there, but you were more than I was. You know?

Yeah, I think, I think that's sort of toward to my detriment too. I'm like, I was really good at being super high without a lot of people really catching on. Yeah. And obviously, I had little tricks, like I had colored contacts, like for the dial, pupil dilation and all that stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Because you do everything you can to like not be found out, obviously.

Yeah.

But yeah, I was very coherent and I was like, like I said, it's like watching your whole— it was again watching my whole life burn and I'm just like continuing to go down the rabbit hole because I I think at this point in the relapse, Amy had found out. And at that point, it's like, well, all bets are off. Nothing fucking matters now. Because, you know, I do truly believe this is my last chance. But I kind of thought last time was too. So, yeah, you know, I really hit it the hardest I have Ever hit it, went to the, I think, grossest places, was with the gnarliest people. Mm-hmm. Um, and, you know, finally, like, I think it— by the end of it, I— my soul was so drained.

Mm.

I was basically in tears while I was using every single time at that point. And, you know, I was just— this one night right before Mother's Day, I locked myself in the band room. And, you know, I slam a little bit more than I should. And I wake up. Probably three four hours later, in a different position on the couch. And I you know I think my body was just so shocked. I just passed out, came to, drove straight to my mom's, and um. Was kind of just like, all right, this is this is it. Like this is where I either stop or like try to die, I guess, in a weird dark way. But after I get to my mom's, I think I tried to use that next day. Couldn't find it anywhere. People are not hitting me up anymore. And I'm kind of just like, oh my God, this is my window. This is my fucking window. And just go straight into detoxing for about 2 weeks. Um, and, uh, at the start of this relapse, I had stopped taking my SSRIs. So I think, um, going into this detox, I bounced back. It's like so much quicker than I thought.

Yeah.

I, I was going to and immediately had like a really strong, better outlook on, on everything.

Um, I don't know, I just had a moment, I guess.

But you and Bobby were there with me the whole time, so I felt like, I guess, the first time in my life that I had support that actually understood me. Um, and really, like, I wasn't— I would use and I would talk to you guys, basically, you know what I mean? Like, there was no, like, secrets. Maybe amounts were, like, a little off, but I think for the most part, like, I was trying to—

Yeah.

Divulge everything to you guys because I mean, there's nothing— there was no— there's no point in hiding anything from you guys. You know, you're not going to fucking reprimand me for that, for doing something. You know, I'm already deep in it. You guys knew I was deep in it, and you really just were kind and gentle hands to hold on the way out.

Yeah. Good, good. Yeah. We tapered you down each week. Then you had the incident on Mother's Day in the, you know, um, and that was it. You, you decided to detox. You were down to— we were down to zero anyway.

Yeah, basically.

Um, but of course your mother was there. That's the thing about the, the other reason that, that we took you on is that you had someone close by in person to help you through the detox. Like, typically an online coach is not gonna, you know, I mean, I, I'm not at that stage yet to do house visits, but I, I, I will sometime in the future. But right now we're not doing that. But sure, you know, I couldn't be there to help you through the detox because you need somebody.

Oh yeah.

You're not gonna— if you're not gonna, um, put yourself in an actual medically supervised detox You need somebody there to, to help you through that, that, that lethargic time, all the sleeping, but also the, the emotion for you, the emotional spiraling that happens in that time when you're coming down, especially off the amount you were doing. Um, it can be unbearable.

Yep. And I think often leads to a quick relapse after because, yeah, the, the shame and the guilt from doing that is just too hard to even—

Yeah.

Yeah, like face. So, you know, I, I do not know how this time has smoothed out so well, but I think I, I went so deep in the hole that the universe is kind of just like, look, man, you can be that dude and you can live that way. But you have so much more potential than that.

Yeah.

And I know that for a fact now and truly believe it. Um, you know, back when we started this, I, I didn't even know how to tell you what, um, self-love was. You know, it was really bad. And the The negative self-talk was basically constant during, during that relapse. Constant.

Yeah.

And I was— I do not know how I didn't go absolutely insane. I'm not sure how my brain kept it together.

Yeah.

I really do not.

You— well, you, you also had a son, a son who needed you.

Absolutely. Um, and, you know, I— a couple weeks before I had stopped, I had like, um, just sent this big long text to Amy and basically trying to like feel out the situation there because As soon as she found out, I I couldn't talk to her anymore because um I just I couldn't stand myself talking to her high or my son high. So you know I basically shut everybody out and I you know I felt that out and was just like dude you're gonna lose him if you don't do something now because it just had. Like she had found out, and then it just dragged on and dragged on and kept going and kept going. It's it felt like um, and so yeah, I mean, one thousand percent, I would say my son helped with that. But I think, unlike the other times, now I am doing it for myself when before I was just doing it for him. And, um, I think once you do do it for yourself, everything else falls into place. You're then doing it for everybody else and for the people that you love if you're, you know, putting yourself first. So yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So after you, you came through the comedown, it took about 2 weeks to get you through that. Your emotions were rough. Um, then we started into the, the, the, the meth-free time, right? Was it difficult at first? Cravings, triggers? How was the first part of all of that?

You know, I think, I think it was honestly the easiest. Comeback I've I've had. I sort of hit the ground running mentally. I was so tired of using that it was almost refreshing. Yeah, to not have that be a constant thing that I had to do. And I think physically my body had enough. Like obviously the last time I slammed. My body was like, dude, you're done. Fucking you're done, dude.

So yeah, yeah, yeah. And so now you're at over four months, right? Yeah. Yeah. You get to see your son often. Yep.

Yep, every, every week. Um, and yeah, I just have such a different outlook than I did, um, trying to, um, I guess get sober. And a huge another difference now, this time around, I am using cannabis. Um, Mm-hmm. Uh, I think that really helps me and puts me in check kind of on a daily basis.

Yeah.

Um, to where I can highlight all the things that I still am doing wrong or need to work on, um, meth-free.

Mm-hmm.

Um, which is amazing because I think No matter how old you are, you can still work on shit and become a better person.

Sure. So yeah, yeah.

Um, but yeah, I just— I'm really, I think, for the first time actually happy. I think, um, not having that weight of that second life in secret. Um, is off my shoulders, but also the shame and guilt of like telling people, um, my past and how I view myself right now, I guess, sexually, which, you know, I still don't really even know, but I don't really think it matters, um, especially right now. And like, as far as sex right now goes, it doesn't. Really, it's not on my radar. And I think right now especially could be the ultimate trigger. So yeah.

Yeah, I think it's smart to take your time. And, you know, those of us that are in the gay community, we have the gay— we have this pressure to be sexual, to be hypersexual, right? To get back out there, you know, Back on the horse, as they say. But you don't have that. You're not, you know, you're not a part of that. You know, you're a— I guess you could be the Q of the questioning. So you're— you could be included in the queer community, but you're still trying to figure all that out, right? And, um, yeah. It's really wise to take your time and say, you know, it's been 4 months. I'm rebuilding a relationship with my son. I'm rebuilding a relationship with my ex-wife, with my mother. with myself. You know, you've said that this is the first time in your life that you have a positive opinion of yourself. Is that right?

And yeah, and I think I basically ruined sex for myself. I think I— it was so oversaturated. It was so frequent. And NSA that like it did nothing mattered. Yeah, yeah. So um, that doesn't seem like an enticing thing that I want to go to right now because it right now it doesn't mean shit to me. Right. Which is okay. You know. Yeah. I I think I can in time rebuild that relationship, but for me to like be happy and take care of my shit and thrive. I don't necessarily need that. Yeah, right now.

So, well, you've never had intimate intimacy with a man. No, right? Um, maybe not a woman. There's, there's a lot to learn here for you, you know. There's, there's a real— there's a road ahead of you, right? And I think it's wise to just take it slow, and that's what you're doing. You're really You're really pacing yourself. That's what's been impressive to me is that you're really aware of what's too much, what is going to, as you said, overamp, overamp yourself, and what's going to overload yourself and overwhelm. And you're, you're just taking it one little piece at a time and prioritizing who's first.

Yeah.

My son. Well, me, right? You, then your son. And Then you're really taking it slow and giving yourself some compassion around that. So I think that's, I think that's a good model for the rest of us.

Yeah, I mean, at this point in my journey, I kind of am like, I don't know, I kind of have a not give a fuck attitude, but just about like how I think people think about me in a way. Um, I'm very like— I think early in my life and like even 3 years ago, I was so like self-conscious about what everyone thought about me. Like, I had to be the— like, I was the nicest dude and like everyone was so shocked about what had happened, you know? And so losing that identity of like the super nice dude, never would fucking do anything wrong, like—

Mm-hmm.

all of that to, oh well, now he has done all this, now he is kind of a fucking shitty dude. Um, I just don't care anymore about what, what people think because the people that do care, like, have heard my story and I'm— I've, you know, told them everything and I trust them.

Yeah.

Um, but if you were my friend and don't want to hear that story and don't give a shit and just judge me on like what you've heard I've done, then I don't have time for that.

Yeah, yeah. What is that quote? The people who care don't matter, and the people that don't— what is it? The people that care don't matter, and the people that don't matter care. It's not right. It's something like that. Um, but the people— yeah, I don't know, but it's something around, around that, that people don't matter if they, you know, if they, if they care and judge you they don't matter. So, uh, I got— I butchered all that real bad. Um, now it's going to bug me, but because I just heard it. But, um, well, so what do you think is the big difference this time?

Like I said, I think, um, just kind of where I was at during this relapse, the culmination of all the relapses before it. Basically every relapse ramping up and getting worse. Um, I think seeing that unfold, this relapse, to how dark it can get. Um, but how also kind of how I just floated through that without really anything bad happening, you know.

Yeah.

And so I think I, I take this as like the universe being like, look, man, I know how far you can take it. I know the hole you're trying to fill.

Mm-hmm.

And you can definitely play that role if you want to. You can have that life if you want to. Um, but you, you, uh, trying to think of the right way to say this. You, you can just offer so much more, I guess.

Yes. Um, yeah, yeah.

It's just, it's— I came out with— out of this with the, the The best confidence and self-love that you know I don't think can be taught. It was kind of earned this time.

Yeah, yeah. But I hope that I think that we we hoped helped give you the space to feel that too.

Like you said, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, was the first. group that I'd been a part of that like legitimately to the T knew, like knows exactly.

Yeah.

What the, um, just how destructive chemsex is as a whole and how consumed that you've become by it.

Yeah.

To the, like, to where it's a daily thing. Yeah. Yeah. So, and you know, like I said, that's that was the ultimate escape for me. I don't think there's anything in this world that could replace that escape. Mm-hmm. But I no longer need to escape. Yeah. Great.

So nice. I love it. What a great story. And what a you're so impressive. I mean, I just I just continued to be. So, you know, I try not to be pessimistic, you know, or anything like that. But, you know, I just had my doubts. And I was like, you know, 6 months to get this guy off of this is going to be a tremendous piece of work for us, especially at a virtual level. But, but really, all you needed was somebody to, like you said, relate and understand and believe in you.

Mm-hmm.

And I think, you know, Bobby and I both As, as time went on, believed in you and believed in you more and more, and, and saw the, the strength that you had coming out of that comedown. So good job to you. Thank you. What a great story and what willpower. And by the way, Dr. Seuss, he says, be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

And that's great.

That's what I was butchering. But that's it. And apparently he didn't originally say it, but I think that goes, that goes great with what you were talking about. So, okay, thank you for this. Thank you for sharing your story. And of course, I love seeing the videos of you and your son playing over the summer and being together, and you're there for him. And That's really the presence of being with him is, it's priceless.

Yep.

It really is. And I'm really glad to see that and glad to see you moving on. You're graduating, you're finished next week.

Yeah.

And who knows what's next for you? The world is your oyster at this point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, thank you, Alex, very much. And thank you for sharing your story. It's gonna mean a lot to a lot of people.

You're welcome. Thanks, Dallas.

You're welcome.