EP 1:13: Self-Acceptance in Recovery with Kaushal

He was an incredibly close friend, but he died. And we went on fall break to Pawleys Island. And I was drinking and I was trying to be okay. And I was swimming drunk at Pawleys Island and I got pulled out by the current and I couldn't figure out what to do.

Ooh.

And so they said, kosher, swim to the jetty. And there's this wonderful young man, Kenneth. He pulled me out of the water because I made it to the gym.

Welcome to the After Meth Podcast. This is your host, Dr. Dallas Bragg, a former crystal meth addict, now sobriety coach. Join me on my mission to increase awareness around the epidemic of crystal meth among the gay male population and create a repository of resources for current and past addicts as well as, and especially for, their loved ones. This is The Aftermath. Trigger warning, this podcast will contain discussions pertaining to drug and alcohol misuse. If you feel triggered to use or relapse, please call SAMHSA's National Hotline at 1-800-662-HELP. Also, if you are new in your sobriety journey and you feel like you could be triggered, by discussions around drug, alcohol, and sex misuse, please do not listen to this podcast. All right, now on with the show. All right, welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Dallas Bragg. As you know already, you've probably heard my name 3 times in the intros, so here I am again. I just want to say this podcast is getting so much Steam. Steam is building momentum and attention. And I just want to say thank you for the listeners for rating, reviewing, downloading. We are surpassing our goals for downloads for this podcast. And so it's just very affirming and confirming what I thought, which was we need a podcast talking about this subject and talking to Uh, men who are struggling with crystal meth addiction, chemsex, but also their loved ones. I have a show coming up, uh, where we are going to read all the listener letters we're getting in, and so I'm excited about that. We're getting a lot of letters from family members. We have partners and sisters and brothers and children, parents. There's a lot of young guys that are getting involved with this drug now, more young people than ever. And so we want to address those needs as well. But today, I like to welcome my special guest, Koshal V. I did say that correctly, right? Koshal, like you said, you really helped me out.

Exactly.

Yeah, you really helped me out with that. Yeah, rhyming. I'm sure that— I'm sure us dumb Americans probably need all that, the rhyme, right? Yeah. Um, Koshal is a gay man who struggled with His identity and the desire to be accepted. Alcohol became his social lubricant during his college years, followed by Adderall—that's probably familiar to all of us—to aid in focus during medical school. Eventually, the pressures led him to meth, triggering a tumultuous period, especially during the pandemic. Fortunately, he has a supportive partner who encourages him toward recovery—a journey that hasn't been without challenges. one he remains grateful for. Currently pursuing his Master's of Healthcare Administration at Queens University of Charlotte— we are in the same city— he also works at a med spa specializing in microcurrent therapy. He recognizes his journey's purpose is to share his experiences and a message of recovery, aspiring to a life of service in various capacities including hospitals, government, nonprofits, or substance use facilities. This newfound purpose motivates him to give back and support others in their recovery journeys. He embraces the opportunity to be of service, sharing his experience, strength, and hope in the hopes of resonating with others and offering them a sense of relatability and inspiration. Welcome, Koshal. Thank you so much for inviting me. You are so welcome. Thank you for being here, and I will What we do on this podcast is we start out with a wellness check-in. So I would like to ask you, how are you doing today?

I'm doing pretty well. I went to work. I woke up clean and sober. I woke up in my own bed. I knew exactly where I was when I woke up. And that is a gift that I am truly grateful for. I have connected with people in my program today. That's a win. I went to the gym and now I'm giving back. So I would say all in all, a good day.

Yeah, a really nice Monday. Good. Great. Well, I always want to say first, just to get to jump in on this, is that I read medical school in your bio. So are you a doctor? Did you go to medical school? What's the story there?

Great question. I did go to medical school straight out of undergrad. I attended St. George's University in Grenada, West Indies.

Yeah.

I wanted to go to med school because I wanted to be the great son. I went to med school to basically make it okay that I was gay. I thought, hey, if I'm a doctor, everything will be okay. And the more I pursued it, I was hardheaded. And I knew once I got there that that's not what I really wanted to do, but I needed the letters after my name. And so after many years of struggle, long nights, all-nighters, taking on some Adderall along the way, plenty of alcohol as well, I got the letters after my name, but I wasn't happy. I was— did not see— I didn't know to recognize the person I saw in the mirror. Mm-hmm. And I could not I could not reckon— I could not reconcile the person I was and how I felt on the inside versus the person I showed to the outside world.

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of us are familiar with that facade. Not to that extent, the medical school, that's big. So you finished medical school altogether? Did you? You said you went to make it okay to be gay. So what does that entail? What did that mean exactly?

That meant I was out to my college friends by my junior year of college. I went the bi route first, claiming that I was bi, but I was really gay. And I went to med school. My parents did not know. My sister did know. I told my cousins, but I did not come out of the closet to my parents until I was firmly in med school. And I, it, it was a struggle. And since then, my parents have come around and I'm grateful for that. Good. But it was not an easy journey. I get that my journey was a little easier because, hey, my parents didn't kick me out of the house as many youths have been kicked out of the house. So I'm grateful for that. My parents are fairly socially conservative. So it was very hard on them.

But you've been able to repair that?

I have. I live at home with my dad. I spend time with the family. I am grateful that they have worked with me. We went to therapy together because—

Wow.

Yeah. Part of it was I was spiraling out and I was in active meth addiction at the time. And so they knew something was wrong, but I wasn't about to be honest about it because delusion is a great thing, right?

Yeah.

But yeah, I am able to show up for my family. My sister just got married and I was able to be that dependable person that they gave me things to do and they could depend on me to follow through beginning, middle, end, as opposed to me sneaking out in the middle of the night, Disappearing and no one knowing where I am.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So timeline here. I jumped in the middle, I guess. But what would you say if you want to start your story or go back? What would be some important points? But before we go there, I do want to say, I do want to ask something. There are a lot of men, a lot more than you would think, who are hiding their sexuality, their, their, you know, their identity, right, from parents, especially here in the South, right?

Of course.

So I was just wondering what you would advise someone if I were to come to you right now, and I'm scared to death to tell my parents and what they'll do. What would your advice be? What gave you the strength to do that?

I, I did it because I wanted to be my authentic self. And I wanted to be happy. And I did not want to live a life of lies. I had enough lies in my life that I did not need to carry another one forward. And I know plenty of people who marry women, who have children, who then will cheat on their wives. Like, I didn't want that for myself. But at the same time, if you're struggling to come out of the closet, make sure it is safe for you. Everyone, make sure it is safe for you. That is the advice I can give. Make sure you are safe because at the end of the day, individuals' own safety is the most important thing. That may not be the advice everyone will give, but I am grateful I can live my authentic life now. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't— I'm not sure that that's, that's the advice I'd give today.

Yeah. Okay. And that's not the topic of the podcast, of course. Okay. So tell us. So, so we mentioned Adderall as a gateway, right? But tell us what, what got you there? What got you to— what brought you to our friend Tina?

Oh, Tina, you fickle bitch. So I grew up born in Chicago, raised in Greenville, South Carolina, almost an idyllic family. My grandparents lived with us growing up and my parents went to the temple. We went to, I went to Sunday school, the equivalent of Sunday school for Hinduism and Jainism. Mm-hmm. I worked hard in school, and yes, I worked hard for my grades. I learned early on that if I was to be a good kid, I needed to behave, I needed to show up, and I need to put on this— I just needed to be good, behave, make sure everyone looks good. And as by the time I was in elementary school and I knew I was different, I was teased relentlessly. I had a, uh, my childhood, one of my really close friends, she was a girl and everyone would tease me, oh, is she your girlfriend?

Yeah.

And for whatever reason, that didn't sit well with me. I was like, she's a girl, she's my friend, but she's not my girlfriend. And I have uncles who still remember that from back in kindergarten and first grade. And, um, I knew I was fascinated by men. I was fascinated by the same gender. And I knew that was different growing up in Greenville, South Carolina. It was different, right?

Yeah.

So I knew to hide that self about me because, I mean, growing up, the slurs used, I'll just say it. Being called a faggot was not a good thing. Being called gay was a bad thing. All like anything implying homosexuality, bad. Do not want to be associated with it. And I took that to heart. Fast forward, I felt apart from. Like I did not. I was not good at sports. I had asthma as a kid. And fast forwarding a little bit more, I wanted to be part of. So I. Was fascinated by alcohol. I put on this persona in high school because I was bullied incredibly in middle school.

Right.

So I chose to go to a different high school that had a magnet program to get a fresh start. And looking back on it, it was, I always was trying to put on a facade to be a part of. And I thought to myself, you know, once I go to college, I can drink and I'll be a part of. And the first night in college, I, I am grateful for the older people that were there who took care of me because they knew me to be a good guy. And they made sure that in my first pretty much blackout of Everclear that I was taken care of.

Never clear.

First college party I went to. Yes. Hunch Punch, Jungle Juice, take your pick, right? It's, uh, actually I have that timeline wrong. I went with people on my floor. I got into the honors college and we went out to a house party where it was just a bunch of guys and girls drinking. I was like, oh, this is kind of cool. And I was a little tempered. But the first college party I went to, which was like a week and a half later, I pretty much blacked out. Thank God for the older people who took care of me. But by the grace of God, I did not get arrested because I know so many people who did get arrested that first month of college. Wow. In South Carolina, there's something called SLED, which is the South Carolina law. It's basically the arm of the local police department that enforces underage drinking laws. So they would be undercover making sure that college students were underage. Yeah. So I'm really lucky that I did not get put in the drunk tank because—

Yeah.

Public drunk— publicly drunk was something that was a part that was me. So How did I go from alcohol to meth? I would not be able to control my drinking. I would study hard and— oh, I haven't thought about this in a while.

Hmm.

I have a friend who, my freshman year, he was driving to school and his car hydroplaned and he went into a coma.

Hmm.

And I drank over that. And then I was struggling in my chemistry class and my friend said, you know what, just take some time. My friend did die. They— it was an incredibly close friend, but he died. And we went on fall break to Pawleys Island and I was drinking. And I was trying to be okay. And I was swimming drunk at Pawleys Island, and I got pulled out by the current, and I couldn't figure out what to do.

Ooh.

And so they said, kosher, swim to the jetty. And, uh, there's this wonderful young man, Kenneth. He pulled me out of the water because I Made it to the jetty, and he pulled me out. And then I walked to the beach, and I just in a blackout started crying, and I started crying, and I don't remember any of this. And my friend said, "Kosher, you don't seem to be handling your alcohol. We need to. You should cut yourself off for the rest of the semester." So they had an early intervention at 18 about alcohol. I know this podcast is about math, but it's very important because.

Yes.

This early intervention, it was a godshot for me and I took it and I was able to finish the semester strong and I learned study habits and I was able to get my bearings in my first year of undergrad. And the new year came around and my hiatus ended and I learned that I could binge drink right after midterms, but I would focus and study leading into the midterms. So I got pretty decent grades my freshman year, and then organic chemistry came. I was like, I'm struggling, let me find some Adderall. So I quickly picked up the, well, I can focus really hard if I find some Adderall. So I did. And then I studied abroad in South Africa, and my first night in a new country, my 20th birthday, I blacked out in a new country. And thank God for these young guys. I don't even remember the names, but they took care of me and made sure I got back to the dorm. But by the grace of God and this relying on other people to take care of me. So Yeah, found Adderall. Go ahead.

I was just going to say you've had, um, seemingly a lot of intervention, not just an actual intervention. You've had a lot of people looking out for you. If, if, um, and I just want to point out too for the listeners that if you're— if you've been listening to the podcast, this is about the 3rd time we've heard of interventions happening from friends that came out in a positive way, even though, you know, you continue to snowball later.

Yeah.

And I think that that's something to, and especially if you have friends who are addicts, to pay attention to that. You may be afraid to do an intervention, but they seem to be working. I mean, there's, this is about the other 2 times that people share that interventions actually saved their lives and stopped them from, from continuing to, to continuing their addiction. So if you're thinking about an intervention, I would contact a professional, but they seem to be working.

Sorry. Yes, they do. And I went from friend group— no, not at all. I went from one friend group to the next because I was so embarrassed about the fool I made of myself. So I didn't manage to hold on to any friends, or at least that was my internal monologue. That and me hiding the fact that I'm gay. Like, I had this internal fear of outing myself when I was drunk. I don't know how many times I did, if I did. Fear is a—

Yeah.

Fear is an integral part of my life and it keeps popping up.

Mm-hmm.

And so eventually I took the MCAT, struggled, switched majors my freshman year from biomedical engineering to public health cuz it was easier. And also I thought, oh, I'm going to med school, I don't need to figure out something else. And as things progressed and as I came back from my study abroad, I focused on A, the academics. So I took on the mantra of study hard, party harder. And I was in a fraternity and again, but by the grace of God, these guys would take care of me when I would black out. I could inevitably count on them to make sure my ass got to the couch. Most of the time I was like, all right, where I'm doing that quick check, where my cell phone, where my keys coming to, and hoping that I did not lose my cell phone again, hoping that I did not lose my wallet again, hoping that I did not lose my keys. And the number of times I drove drunk, I am grateful that it did not get pulled over.

Yeah.

And so med school was no different. I was out at that point to my classmates. I found I struggled and I knew Adderall helped me focus. And so by the end of my first semester, I was, and by the end of my second semester of med school, I was really struggling. I was barely scraping by. And I thought, you know what? Let me get Adderall. So I went to my physician, family medicine physician, and asked him, hey, Adderall worked in undergrad, maybe you can help me out. And so he did. And I ended up with a 6-month supply because Adderall, you had to bring it with you to Grenada. And so I ended up with a 6-month supply all at once.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Oh, whoa.

And I also was— They don't pass it out like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

And I also picked up drinking because I was like, oh, I'm studying so hard for pathology, let me start drinking because that's the way I unwind from doing whatever amount of Adderall that I would keep upping. Yeah. And then I take— I would drink to sleep. Okay. And then I failed that semester and I was like, oh my God, what the fuck am I gonna do? And I had to figure out how to go out, how to go back and say, look, I'm going to focus, I'm going to study, I'm going to do better this time.

Mm-hmm.

And so I was readmitted on probation. And so I repeated that semester again, got all A's because I was taking one class, still drinking, doing Adderall. And then I passed the USMLE Step 1, moved to New Jersey. I was living alone. I had Adderall and I was drinking and my sex addiction took on a whole new beast. I didn't identify it at the time as a sex addiction. I was like, hey, I'm living alone and I have Grindr and Scruff. And I found myself spiraling out of control, eating too much, drinking too much, not working out, and just not taking care of myself.

Okay.

Doing things I didn't think I would do, struggling and not realizing that I was self-sabotaging, that I knew I did not want to go to— knew I did not want to pursue medicine anymore, but Realized I was too far in, that I could not change paths, that I felt like I was locked in.

Yeah.

And so that self-sabotage cycle eventually turned into me somehow scraping by, getting the letters after my name, but realizing I'm not going to be able to pursue residency because on one side I had failed the board exam and on the other side realizing I don't fucking want to do medicine anymore and I need to do something else. Um, and so once I got the letter of dismissal from my school saying, Kushal, we do not think you're going to be able to pursue residency, uh, we wish you all the well, but you do have letters after your name. You have successfully completed a med— um, you have your Doctor of Medicine. It's like, all right, now what the fuck do I do?

Yeah. Yeah, what can you do? So, by the way, I mean, this is— I mean, what can you do without the residency? I'm just curious.

Yeah, I have the letters after my name, so I have a terminal degree. Okay. But I cannot practice medicine in the United States. I cannot practice or get a license, but I do have the terminal degree. So administration, Um, or working under someone else's license as their technician or day-to-day operations.

I see.

Which is what I do now.

Okay.

Um, but getting to that point was a bit of a struggle. And, uh, I've lost my train of thought. Ah.

So you're, you're living by yourself. You have all Adderall, alcohol. Grindr, Scruff. I don't know if Snippies was a thing then, but too bad. Grindr, Scruff. So you're all set up there. You just completed school, which didn't really complete, right? And I'm intrigued by your being a part of. It seems like a theme for you. You just wanted to be included, accepted somewhere, right? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And I thought I could. Yeah, I thought if I had enough sex or drink enough, I'd feel okay. But it didn't fill the void.

Yeah. Yeah. So what happens next?

I come home. I'm living at home with my dad in Charlotte. My dad's pushing me to go get a job, do something. So eventually I start sending my resume out. And lo and behold, my resume ends up on a mutual friend's desk. And he's intrigued. Medicine undergrad, business administration minor.

Mm-hmm.

Self-able to work for himself. Clearly able to somehow manage to finish med school.

Yeah.

And graduated with honors from the University of South Carolina Honors College, the top honors college in the United States. So somehow there's something that works.

Yeah.

And, uh, I was able to start working as the technician and day-to-day operations at a med spa where I do microcurrent therapy. And so I started in 2019, the spring, summer of 2019. And I did pretty well that first year. And then I was like, got a little full of myself and realized, you know what, I deserve to do some other things. I deserve to meet up with other guys, and I deserve to try something to make the sex a little better.

Hmm.

And my dad knew something was wrong. And because I would be coming and going. But I definitely— it was— I smoked crystal meth once. And I enjoyed it. And then I thought, you know what? Let me let's make this better. And I used intravenously for the first time February of 2020, start of the pandemic.

Right, right in front. Yeah, right before the pandemic.

That's nice. Right before the pandemic. Wow. And so I was deemed an essential worker. So I tried it for the first time. I was like, oh my god! This is fantastic.

Yeah.

And I was deemed an essential worker, so I could come and go as I pleased. There was no lockdown for me.

Oh, okay.

And so I would still work, and I still struggled, and I quickly became a regular user. It was a weekend warrior to, uh, pretty regular user. And I would say, oh, it's a little T. But it was crystal meth. And that bitch will take you for everything you give her.

Yeah, yeah. How did you function and work while using intravenously? Like, were you working every day during the week? How did you manage that?

I did work by a thread. Yeah, by a thread. And I am lucky that I did not get pulled over. I am lucky, but by the grace of God, that I still have a job today. Yeah. And It was because the person who I am trying to spend my life with pushed me to do better, who would call me out and say, look, Koshal, you're killing yourself. I do not want to see you die. And trying to convince me, bartering with me to go To stop. And so I had this thing in my head of like, all right, I don't want to be using for more than a year. So I tried quitting in various times in the, um, in August of 2020, September 2020, October of 2020. Finally found a therapist. First 5 sessions I went to, I was high. And Then I left him, and I left the gentleman, the guy I want, that I supposedly love, in the— in at home while he was sick. And I went to go hook up with some other guys. And he was like, I'm done. And so I called another therapist. I said, look, I need help. And she suggested I go to an AA meeting. Now, the first therapist suggested I go, and I was like, God, no, no, absolutely not. And so in January of 2021, I went to my first AA meeting. I was told to go to the acceptance group, which was the local LGBT meeting, which met via Zoom at the time. And I went to Ballantine acceptance group thinking it was the same thing. It was not the same thing, but they were very welcoming. Yeah. And so I went on this. I'm one of those guys who first came into the rooms virtually because Zoom was the only way that we were meeting. No large meetings still allowed. And eventually I found the acceptance group and I couldn't get it. I would keep relapsing and I could not put together a little very much time. And then finally in March of 2020. One, I started putting some time together. Okay. Finally got seven months, and then I decided to go back out. And then, after a four-hour relapse in October of 2021, October 22nd, 10:22:21 is my sobriety date. Okay. I know that's very picture perfect, and it's like, oh, things are fixed. But that's not really how it is because it was a lot of struggles, a lot of close calls. And at that point, I told some family members that I'm struggling with alcohol and drugs.

Uh-huh.

And they said, Koushal, you need to do something more. So my cousin and her husband suggested I go to an IOP or rehab, actually.

Okay.

And so I did an intake after 25-odd days of continuous sobriety in October. And in November, I started my IOP at the Dilworth Chemical Center for— Dilworth Center for Chemical Dependency. And I'm truly grateful for that because it gave me the structure I needed. I was going to multiple meetings a week. It was suggested at some point that I check out other fellowships, and I've been able to build a network of guys, girls, and individuals in recovery who support me and who I am able to support. And I've also found that The LGBT network is important to me because I finally found my tribe of people who understand me. And I have come to come into my own skin because I not only am living free from alcohol and drugs, but I'm also living an authentic life. And it's no longer transactional. Mm-hmm.

So what was the, what was the big change for you? What was the— was it finding your tribe? Do you think that that was the, the, the key to you? Because you, you, you bounced, right? You were— you went 7 months, you, you were relapsing, relapsing, and then October it stopped. What do you think was the final straw for you?

It's a cliché, but I was tired of killing myself slowly. And people say, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, but I was sick and tired of living for the drug and that obsession. And I truly, it has to be from within. I wanted To stop, and I knew that I could do it on my own. It had to be with the help of others.

Yeah.

Like in the program, they say it needs to be a psychic change of some sort. And for me, it was realizing that I can't do it alone and just stop Rebelling.

Yeah. And being honest with your family sounds like that was a turning point.

Yeah. I didn't tell them about me using drugs until— told my sister right around October. of the 2021, but I didn't tell my parents until later because I kept saying, oh, I have group therapy, I have group therapy. So I'm going to a meeting, I would just say I have group therapy. So my parents were concerned that, oh, I'm going to— I'm going to a lot of group therapy. I said, yeah, yeah. But in reality, I was going to meetings. So I had IOP 3 times a week, and then I would go to meetings every day of the week.

Yeah. Okay. And IOP was helpful?

Fantastically helpful. Of the 6 guys in my group, 2 have since died.

Wow.

Because addiction kills.

Yeah.

And I still talk to one of the guys from my original group. And, um, but to answer your question, yes, IOP helped. It was the outside help I needed. Um, but it's— you individuals, I know plenty of people who are able to get clean and sober from alcohol, drugs, meth without the help of outside resources. I— for me, it was just the path I took. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you feel a part of something now?

Yeah, I feel a part of— I found my tribe in Charlotte. I found my group of people, but on a greater sense, I have also found Recovery Weekends. There are people that I meet maybe once a year, maybe twice a year. They're my touchstones. Um, um, they are LGBG sober or clean, uh, retreats and roundups where we congregate for a single purpose, to focus on our recovery and spirituality.

Okay.

And I'm— that is my tribe. They're the people who I know I can reach out to regardless of what day or time it is. I also have that strong network of friends in the Charlotte area as well, who it doesn't matter the time, I can call them.

Yeah.

So it's outstanding.

So on these retreats, when you meet with other sober, sober people working on your recovery, what are some things that you're working on? What is life like for you? in recovery, post-12 steps, post all the, you know, all the initial stuff. But when you're going back and meeting with people, what are y'all working on?

So I'm still working on the 12 steps, full disclosure. Okay. So sometimes, like, and you never finish working on them. So it is focusing maybe a workshop on doing a deeper dive in step 4. Where you do your inventory.

Okay.

Maybe a deeper dive on making amends or living amends, but also focusing on your spiritual journey. Because it's not a destination. It is about living spiritually or finding that higher power and connecting with it on a regular basis. And, um, the other part of it is, how do I live my authentic life? Some— sometimes there's workshops on sex and relationships. And other times it is about helping the newcomer, sharing the message, sponsorship. And how do we— how do I carry the message forward? How do I give away what was so freely given to me?

Mm-hmm.

My sponsor who would spend the 45 minutes a day on the phone with me, listening to me bitch. How do I pass that same service work forward?

Hmm.

And, um, and sometimes it's just about friendship, about spending time with friends, meeting new people, and being that safe space for people when they may not have an LGBT meeting or special interest meeting in their area.

So Do you think you—

Did I answer your question?

Yes, you did. Do you think that you get more out of an LGBTQ recovery meeting than you would a normie meeting?

You know, that's an interesting question. I have found that I've gone to plenty of normie meetings, just straight up AA meetings or straight up NA meetings. And there are times where I felt a little different. And yes, I am grateful that my home groups are LGBT-specific meetings.

Mm-hmm.

And at the same time, the message I've heard is any meeting I go to is an LGBT meeting because I showed up. And so I can show up and be that person. And at the end of the day, I have to find the similarities versus the differences. Because terminal uniqueness is something that will keep me apart from, and I have to find the similarities. You may not have drank or used the same way I did, but that doesn't matter. We both have— I can find the similarities between your story and mine. In your share or my share or someone else's share. I can, even if it is, I can find something of value if I choose to. And the other thing I've heard is take the advice that works for you and leave the rest. If 20 people share in a meeting and one person shares something that's useful, take that.

Yeah.

And run with it.

Yeah, that's great. Thank you for saying that because I think our listeners need to hear that. You— I hear a lot from people who will discard completely an AA meeting, NA meeting, 12 steps because of one bad experience or because of you're sitting around and maybe, you know, there are a couple of people who really are just in bad places and things like that. But I love what you said about take what, take something that resonates and find, and also gay men who say they don't feel comfortable in a straight normie meeting. But like you're saying, is find some similarity. There's something there. Even if it's, we're both addicts, you know, there's something to, there's something to find to help you, to help you feel like you do.

Right.

belong there. So thank you for saying that. That's great advice. I just, I like to stop and make sure listeners are notating some things. Um, you mentioned the sex addiction. So number one question of all, of all time is, how do I enjoy sex again after crystal meth? So what is your experience, if you don't mind sharing? Um, if you don't want to share your experience, at least some advice, um, because that's, that's what people are hungry, hungry for, is they get done with meth, they don't want to have sex, their libido is destroyed, or they can't get hard anymore, they're addicted to porn, blah, you know, you know the, you know the round. Um, and they're just scared because they don't even— even if they have some libido, why have sober sex after I've had Meth sex, chemsex. So what would— what was your experience?

I found that I did not have a libido slash I was looking for other people. It was the new experience as opposed to focusing on the relationship that I had. And so 2 things. First thing I've heard is No new relationships, including ones that last 5 minutes for the first year of recovery.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so, um, and so that would mean no new relationships, no hookups for the first year. That is one school of thought. And, uh, I think, well, it didn't work for me because I was trying to pursue a relationship with someone that I had been with Through my struggles, through my addiction. But at the same time, I found that I needed to focus on me. And there was so much— well, I'll backtrack a little and say, give yourself grace. Give yourself time to recover. I found that focusing on my recovery was the most important thing.

Mm-hmm.

Because without the recovery, I was just gonna go back to using multiple guys, all the risky behaviors. And so focusing on the recovery, giving myself time to let my brain heal from all those chemicals, giving myself time for those neural pathways to reform. And the libido will come back. It may take some time, but it will come back.

Hmm.

And when it does, consider not being so impulsive. Consider talking to whether it be your outside therapist, your counselor, your sponsor, friends in recovery, Make sure it is not, because if I listen to only what Kosha wants to do, I'm going to get in trouble. I go to other people that I trust, whose recovery I trust, I get feedback from them because each person, although we are all addicts, each person has their own journey.

Mm-hmm.

And so I'm not going— I cannot give a blanket statement and say no new relationships for the first year. It's a great guideline, but at the same time, if you're married, you're not going— there's always exceptions, right? But give yourself grace. And when it comes to my sex addiction, I first stopped using chemicals and then I focused on SAA, Sex Addicts Anonymous.

Okay.

It's been quite the journey, and each person defines what is acting out for them, what is middle circle, and what is considered outer circle or sober behavior.

Interesting.

And I have over a year of continuous sobriety in that program, and I'm It was quite— it was a struggle. And at the same time, I am grateful for the journey because as long as I continue on that path, my chemical addiction and my sex addiction are intertwined. As many people in crystal meth addiction, that sex and meth are intertwined. And so I am grateful that I found this journey.

Yeah.

I can talk about this forever, but I will say give yourself grace and talk to someone else about it and get their feedback and figure out what works for your individual journey and recovery.

Great advice. Thank you. Thank you. So SAA has been beneficial for you then as well?

Yes, it has.

Yeah.

I go to a meeting once a week. I talk to my sponsor about my journey. I first had a period of abstinence from all forms of sex for an initial period, and I looked back at what is addictive, what is healthy, and what is middle circle. What is the slippery slope behavior? That may lead back to a needle in my arm. Yeah, because for me they're linked. And so it has been the it has been a tumultuous journey, and at the same time I would not give up anything for it because it's brought me two feet planted in my recovery, comfortable in my skin today. Mm-hmm.

Great. That's great. That's promising. And moving forward, you're working on your new degree, right? At Queen's University. And what's next for you? And are you— and are you dating? Like, are— have you crossed that threshold?

So the same gentleman who pushed me towards recovery, we are still trying to figure things out.

Oh, okay.

There's so much broken trust on my part. You can only imagine how much, how many times I lied about things I've done, how many times I lied about when I was using or not using. And so we're trying to figure that out. And I'm grateful every day for him sticking with me and providing me support and pushing me towards recovery. And at the same time, I'm grateful that I don't need to date. I don't need to get on the apps. I don't need that today because it's scary. I hear my friends talk about, oh, you have those— any app that I go on, I can find the drug immediately. Oh yeah. That's not a characterizations of the apps. It's just, just the reality of it. That's right. So that's right. Right.

That's what I say. It's not— Grindr is not the problem. It's what we've made Grindr to be. It's the problem, right?

There are plenty of guys who can go on it. Yes, go for a hookup, go on a date, and not negatively impact their life. That's right. For me, on the other hand, That's right. I can't.

That's right. Thank you for saying that too, because, you know, when you're in recovery, you have to get to this point where you have a level of self-awareness, but there's also this honesty aspect. And being honest with other people helps you practice being honest with yourself. And I know for me, Um, so I, I journal and I track my cycles, you know, not my menstrual cycle. I'm talking about my addiction cycle. My addiction cycles, my relapse cycles. And what I noticed was, and I, I couldn't remember saying this every 3 or 4 months, but every 3 or 4 months I was writing in my journal, you know, I, I'm just wanting to meet somebody, so I'm going to go ahead and download the app, you know, download Grindr, download whatever. Just to see, because I'm lonely, blah, blah, blah. I would say that every 3 or 4 months and it started, it unleashed the landslide. And then I would end up relapsing in some way. I count a lot of things as relapse. Like if I go and if I'm acting out of my sex addiction, you know, if I meet somebody at the park and then I meet somebody here on the way home and then I meet, you know, on the same day, I'm being a sex addict, right? And so that That counts to me as a relapse. But that wouldn't happen if it didn't start with this, with this app. And I knew in the back, back, back of my mind, if I was really honest with myself, why I wanted to download Grindr.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so, like you said, one person can, one person can't. It's all in the motivation and who is honest with themselves and who, who doesn't have a drug problem, right? So if you, you know, if you come to me, a lot of people do, and they're, you know, they're, they're stuck in the cycle of relapse. The first thing I ask is, do you use Grindr or Scruff? Or if they did, we, we couldn't— Grindr just wasn't bad enough. We had to invent Sniffies to make it just a little worse or, or a lot worse, you know. But I asked, are you on those applications? Often, because if you are, that's a first step. That's a and that's besides the sex question. That's the second most question, I guess. What's the first thing I need to do to quit? Well, get off the damn apps first so that your mind can clear, right? So good. Thank you for. I really like your perspective, and on on a lot of things, and I'm really happy. that you have become a part of, that you've become accepted. You found your tribe and you found your place and you seem very happy. And by the way, it's just, you can't, the listeners can't see, but you just have like perfect hair, just this beautiful hair, by the way.

Thank you so much.

That's neither here nor there, but I just had to point that out. Okay, so moving forward, you are talking to your partner, which is a whole other episode, I think, that we, we should do and could do. Because that's a— that's in this community, it's such a huge issue. Partners who have partners who are using, you know, and they have an open relationship, which I don't know if you had an open relationship, but the open relationship opens the door, you know, not to say they're all bad, but again, You have to be careful with those kind of things. And then, but so many guys want to repair. And I think that says a lot about you, that your partner is working toward that. And he sees the person underneath all of what happened. And I just, I just love that.

He showed me more grace than I showed myself or would show someone else. And so Yeah, we strive for monogamy. And it has been— he has given me, shown me grace. I'm truly grateful for that.

Great. Good. Well, one last question, I guess, would be what advice— I mean, you've given a lot of advice, but what advice do you give? You're a sponsor too, right?

I am.

How was that experience for you?

The first time I sponsored someone, I— well, let's speak generally. I thought I could keep that person clean and sober if I tried hard enough.

Hmm.

And it was a lesson in understanding my limits. And the only thing sponsorship is, the only role of a sponsor is to take a sponsee through the 12 steps. Show them or talk to them about, hey, this is what it means to be in recovery. This is what it means to do step 1, step 2, admitting that you are powerless over your addiction, alcohol, crystal meth, drugs, that we had a problem in our life. And the only thing I can offer is my own experience, strength, and hope. And so Since then, I have learned that I can only offer my own experience, strength, and hope. I answer the phone when it rings. I remember that it is— if it is not my circus, not my monkeys, that I can't— it's not— I can only offer advice. I can't keep someone sober who doesn't want to stay sober. And I will only— I need to put in as much effort as that person is putting in. So I can't want it more for that person than they want it for me.

Yeah. Yeah.

And the last thing I'll reiterate is go where you're fed. And I tell people, go where you're fed, go to the meetings where you get the support you need. And it does not matter the fellowship, go to the fellowship that that so closely reflects or resonates with you, whether it be AA, NA, CMA, or SAA. But I am a card-carrying member of more. So I go to all of them and they all nourish my recovery.

But it sounds like you intentionally make sure they do as well, right? You get out of them what you put in them.

It's a very fair point because I sign up for service. I show up, I go to the meeting early, I stay late. I make sure I share in the meetings and I make sure I raise my hand to be of service, whether it be go early to make coffee, lead a meeting, chair a meeting. Open the church, or hey, in some cases, help to bring a meeting to the city. If there's— there used to be a CMA meeting in Charlotte. There no longer is one. We're trying to start one up again. And so we hope if we build it, they will come.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Well, there's a need for it, I'm sure. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Okay. Well, was that your, your last, your piece of it, your best piece of advice you would give? That was, that was gonna be my next question is go where you're fed.

I would say go where you're fed and be open to suggestions. So it was suggested to me that I Be open to suggestions, be open-minded when it comes to recovery, be willing. And so it was suggested to me that I try a sober retreat and it was the best thing for me. Mm-hmm. Because I went to Winter Awakening my first year I went, and since then I've joined the committee and it has allowed me to do service on a different level. And so one friend sugge— yeah. Be willing.

Be willing. Open to suggestions. That's a tough one. That's a tough one for some people.

Right.

Yeah. Thank you very much, Kaushal. This was a very nice conversation, very helpful for a lot of people out there. And we didn't talk about how Hinduism may have played a part in all of this, cultural differences. If you are willing, maybe we can do another podcast on that because that's a subject that I want to, to dive into because we have listeners now from around the world, Pakistan, Turkey, and Greece. And I'm hearing a lot of, you know, this cultural pressure. I mean, you already have shame around being gay. You have shame around being an addict. Then you have another level of shame being around a meth addict. Then you have a little level of shame that you face from your culture and your family. Um, it's— you're faced with all this. And then if you have HIV, there's another, there's another layer too, which is very common in this community. So that could be a whole other, um, topic, and I'd like to talk to you about that sometime.

Be honored.

Okay, that being said, I'm gonna wrap it up. If you Would like to be part of the community, please join our Facebook group. Facebook link will be in the description. It is called The Aftermath. This old man is starting a Discord, so if you want to join the Discord community, it's called The Aftermath Community. Also, our website is aftermath.net. You can submit questions in there. There are different categories such as the party's over if you want to say goodbye to your addiction. There is Meth Understood, which is what most people misunderstand about you and about meth addiction. There's all kinds of categories you can submit, and there's also a category for loved ones of meth addicts to submit their questions, concerns, and we will read some of those on air. There's also a phone number on there if you want to leave a voicemail message. Do not be paranoid, it is all anonymous. I will not use your name, and if you want your voice mixed Uh, they're mixed and scrambled, we can do that too. That being said, we're going to sign off and we will see everybody next time.

Bye.