EP 1: 22 When the Universe Gives You a Decision Point with Mausjohn

stage where they're functioning or they're only doing it once in a while and they think they can control it, what would you say to them?

Run, run, run, stop, quit.

Welcome to the Aftermath Podcast. This is your host, Dr. Dallas Bragg, a former crystal meth addict, now sobriety coach. Join me on my mission to increase awareness around the epidemic of crystal meth among the gay male population and create a repository of resources for current and past addicts As well as and especially for their loved ones. This is The Aftermath. Trigger warning: this podcast will contain discussions pertaining to drug and alcohol misuse. If you feel triggered to use or relapse, please call SAMHSA's National Hotline at 1-800-662-HELP. Also, if you are new in your sobriety journey and you feel like you could be triggered, By discussions around drug, alcohol, and sex misuse, please do not listen to this podcast. All right, now on with the show. Welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Dallas Bragg. I am so glad that you have taken out your time and chosen this podcast above the other 13 million podcasts. I don't really know what the number is, um, out there. Everybody has a podcast, it seems like. On this one, we are focused on gay men and their struggle with crystal meth. However, we've been branching out. We've been trying to get a whole— a look, a holistic look at the challenges of an addict. And, you know, I mean, just because you did crystal meth doesn't mean you did another drug, right? A lot of crystal meth addicts were alcoholics first. You know, so anyway, if you're enjoying this podcast, I wish that you would help us get it out to others that need to hear it. And you can do that by rating, reviewing, sharing, liking, commenting on it. I really love to see people repost the podcast on their social media, tag me in it. That would be really great. Also, don't forget there is a study guide, a pod blog that goes along with each episode. You can find that link in the show notes. All right, today talking with Mashawn. Mashawn, I think we met on TikTok, right?

Uh-huh. I, I, I saw your videos and it just, it, it really struck me that someone was putting that out there because it's a big deal in the community and nobody's really talking about it. There's such a associated with it. So kudos to you for putting it out there, and thank you for doing what you do.

Thank you, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Um, you know, thank God for TikTok, because I was on Instagram and Facebook for a year and didn't seem like it was getting anywhere. So TikTok is taking me worldwide.

Congratulations on that.

Thank you. So, um, let's start out, uh, with introducing you, I'm going to let you introduce yourself. I think that that's been— we're changing that here at the podcast. Instead of me sitting here reading a bio, I just want you to tell us the most interesting things about yourself that you know.

Well, I am a recovering addict. I am involved in the NA fellowship. I have begun my step work. I'm working on step 1 right now. I am 604 days sober. 20 months now. And, uh, the thing I, I, I— if I am going to tell my story, I like to do it in the format of the fellowship. It is what happened, uh, what you were like, what happened, and what you're like now. I— because I believe that most of us who were addicts had addictive behaviors long before we ever picked up a drink or a drug. I also believe that the drink and/or the drug is a symptom of a larger problem. And I know that I've always been an impatient and hyperactive kid, and I grew up in a family of abuse, and it was a very toxic environment when coming up. Like, there was abuse in my household, and I guess I never really learned— I never really learned how to deal with it. And I couldn't tell you what made me pick up drugs or what made me start doing drugs, but And when I got into my 20s, it was a feeling of wanting to be accepted by people, and they were doing things that I wasn't, that I was told not to do from the time I was a child. I grew up in the drug abuse resistance education era, D.A.R.E. and Just Say No, you know, that whole Nancy Reagan thing.

Oh yeah.

So excuse me, I'm sorry. Like I said, I'm getting over a cold. But, um, I couldn't tell you what made me pick up the first drug. What I can tell you is that once it got started, it became It became my whole life. I didn't start with meth. I started doing cocaine, I think, around my early 20s when I was involved in what, in the Black gay community, we have something called the ballroom scene. And if you can check out the movie Paris Is Burning, it sort of explains it. Netflix did a series called Pose that talks about how it got started in the 1980s, but it was where we competed to get— there were houses or families who grouped together and competed against each other in categories for trophies and cash. And it's actually gone worldwide now, but it was a secret underground thing in the '80s and the '90s when I was involved in it in the '90s. And in order to be with the group of people that I was with, most of them did coke or Special K or ecstasy. And in order to hang out with them, I felt like I needed to do it too, which started me snorting coke and smoking what we call coolies, which are coke cigarettes. That progressed to me smoking crack later on, a couple of years later, which became a big problem. When I was smoking crack, I lost everything. Crack became such a large part of my life that I couldn't keep it. As soon as I bought something, I was trying to pawn it. I could never keep anything because I was trying to sell everything to make sure that I could get that next All right. That lasted up until about 2014, where I left North Carolina and moved to Kansas City, Missouri. And when I moved to Kansas City, Missouri, you know, whenever you go, you take you with you. And it wasn't long before— I did okay for a while, and it wasn't long before the drugs followed me and the addictive habits and behaviors followed me. And I started smoking crack and messing up my life in Kansas City. I was— I'll never forget, I was at my apartment one night when I had just gotten my dealer to bring me some stuff, and one of my good friends from Kansas City was like, you're wasting your money smoking dope. If you try meth, it's the same high, it lasts so much longer, and here, try this out. And that's what got me started smoking meth, and the, the chaos ensued from there, so to speak.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. Okay, that's a lot. One thing, uh, There's a lot of things that pop out for me, but one is wherever you go, you take you with you.

Wherever you go, you take you with you. Yes, sir. And you can put on fronts, you can put on airs, you can try your best to cover it up. But if you don't deal with the underlying issues, you're going to follow right behind you wherever you go.

Yeah. So back to the ballroom scene, because I had another guest on here who was in a house, um, and, and that's how they were getting free drugs. They were getting—

Oh yeah.

Yeah. Is that how it works?

Well, technically it's not supposed to because it started out in, in New York City where people— there were kids who were runaways. There were— or families had turned them out because they were gay, and they kind of congregated on Christopher Street where the piers are. I've been there once or twice to see what it was like. But yeah, they would prostitute themselves to earn money and rob and steal, whatever they had to do. And they started congregating together in these groups, what they called houses. And the houses took names, and there would be a mother, someone who had been around and had learned how to survive and took these kids in and they would— it'd be 15 to 20 people living in an apartment. And I couldn't tell you exactly. I know it started from drag queens performing in clubs in the late '60s and '70s. I couldn't tell you exactly how the ballroom started, but when I came into it in the '90s, these families had grouped together and it was all over the United States at that point. You could go pretty much anywhere and catch a ball during the '80s. The kids would work the pier and go what they call mopping, which at that time was steel, whatever they needed to perform in those categories. And they would work the piers, do what they had to do, and the balls wouldn't start till like 5 or 6 o'clock in the morning because the girls and the boys were out working to get the stuff that they needed. I mean, like I said, the best depiction of it, there's a documentary that was made in the late '80s called Paris Is Burning. If you ever get a chance to check that out—

Yeah.

It really goes into detail about the ballroom scene. For me, it was a chosen family because my biological family, I always felt like an outsider in my family. I've never felt— I felt like an outsider in most places most of my life. And so when I met these people who, you know, who looked like me, who acted like me, who did the things that I did, it felt safe. It felt like a safe space. So, and they had chosen me, so I chose them.

Okay.

That's how it's supposed to work. Okay.

Yeah, I did see that movie. Okay. I did see the movie. And I watched the Netflix.

Oh, you watched Pose too?

I did watch Pose.

Oh, perfect.

When I had a TV, I watched it. So, okay. Yeah, because they didn't really talk about drugs too much.

They try to keep that part of it under wraps. Just like in any situation, not everybody does that. Not everyone does it. But there's a large part of the community that are on drugs and alcohol and using that to to psych themselves up for what they— I used to smoke weed because my category was called Vogue Femme. I vogue. I can't do it anymore, but I was a voguer. And in order to prepare myself to do the things I needed to do to get out there on the floor, I would drink a lot and smoke a lot of weed so that I wouldn't feel myself. What they call it a death drop. In the real ballroom community, it's called a dip.

Yeah.

The actual term is a dip. Yeah, I need— I really hate it when people say a death drop. That's not what it is. It's called a dip. And though you're literally slamming your body into the floor and it's painful, so, you know, kind of numb yourself so you don't feel it.

Oh, okay. So you're on drugs?

Oh yeah, oh yeah, I was loaded up when I was out there voguing.

One of you I wish you had a video you can show us.

I used to. He— I did it one last time for my best friend in my late 30s because I don't do it anymore. It's just— my body is wrecked from doing all that stuff. But my— I don't know if he's still— if I can find the video, if he has it still, I'll send it to you.

Yeah. Okay. So you, you moved to try to get away from all of that? Yeah.

Yeah, I did.

You were on crack. Um, so this is an ignorant question, but what is crack? I know Whitney said crack is an actor, but what is crack?

Crack is cocaine. It's— I guess it was in the '80s, they called it freebase cocaine. You take baking soda, water, salt, put it in the microwave, it rocks up and solidifies, and you can put it at the end of what they call a stem and smoke it. You can smoke your cocaine.

Okay. All right. Okay.

It gives you immediate, intense, about 25-second high, and then you chase that high for the rest of the night because it releases— it immediately releases all of your endorphins all at once, and it floods the system. That's why people chase that high for the rest of the night. But it's called— like, they call it, uh, uh, chasing a ghost, because you never— you'll never get that once you— once you hit that first hit. You'll never get that same high again, not until the endorphins build back up. But you chase that same high all the rest of the night trying to get that same feeling, and it never comes back. Okay.

Okay. And so you got into meth, and what was that like?

It was, it was, at first it was, it was, it was fun. It was, it was so much fun because I, I, I got to, you know, it, it opened up a different— when I moved to Kansas City, I didn't know a whole lot of people. And, you know, I didn't know a whole lot of people, and that kind of opened up a whole world of people to me that I wasn't— that I guess I wouldn't have normally gotten into. I found— I got on Grindr. Got on Grindr. And yeah, just recently, the last couple of months, because I still had the app on my phone for months, I never went on it, but I had the app on my— I just deleted it like 3 or 4 weeks ago, just completely just trashed it so I wouldn't go back on it. But that's where you could find— you could find anybody who wanted to party. Long as there was a capital T in their name, you know, that was a— you know, that was a person who wanted to hang out and party with you. My name was Cumulonimbus.

Was what?

Cumulonimbus. Cumulonimbus is a storm cloud.

Clouds I don't know if some people could ever connect that.

Well, some people would. People would ask me about it all the time, and they were like, "Oh, okay, I get it now." After I explained it to them, I'm a little cerebral.

Yeah, yeah, too cerebral for him.

That's good. Yeah, yeah.

So how long did that last? And did you progressively get worse? What was your— so you said it was fun at first, so when did it become not?

The thing is, when I was on crack, I didn't have anything. Like, I had an apartment that had no furniture, no food. I had to wash my clothes in the tub and hang them because every dime that I had went to smoke. I used to go to work high, you know, and couldn't function at work because I was so high and had to leave work. Because the crack enveloped my entire being. When I started smoking meth and realized that, okay, this high lasts way longer and I have to spend way less money, so I was able to start to accumulate things. So I literally thought I was doing better. Like, that's how insane I was.

Oh.

I thought, I thought my life was better because now I could put furniture in my apartment. I got money in my pocket. I, I'm, I, I got guys coming over to hang out with me and chill. Like, I'm, I'm doing something. I'm like, It made it look like— because when you're a crackhead, so to speak, I hate to use that word, people can tell you're a crackhead. You ain't got shit. Excuse my language, I'm sorry. You don't have anything. But as a meth head or a tweaker, so to speak, it doesn't look as if you are a drug addict because you can accumulate, you can pay your rent, you can have things, and nobody really knows what's going on with you unless you let them. And it went on like that for A couple of years, like I was doing really well. But yes, it got progressively worse as time went on.

So you were still working and smoking?

I was. I've always been a functional addict. Because you, if you look, if you can't, if you can't keep a job, you ain't got no money, you can't support your habit. And I'm not one of those who likes to leech or mooch off anybody. And I'm going to pay for my own stuff, period. Usually I was the party anyway, because whatever, whatever drug I was on, I was the one who always had it. People wanted to hang out with me because I always had it.

Ah, okay.

That's nothing to be proud of. I said that like I'm— Right, right.

Yeah. Okay. So then what was your downfall here? When did it— I mean, you seem to be living the life. So what happened?

When it became— when it wasn't just a party function, anything, or it wasn't just on the weekends, when it became— I had to have it every single solitary day. I had to get high every single solitary day. I had to have somebody come over and party and play every single solitary day. It was every day. I would come home from work, I would take my clothes off, take a shower, I would pop open Grindr, go call my dealers, have them come over. As a matter of fact, I ended up becoming friends with the dealers. I became what you call the middleman.

Yeah.

If you needed some stuff, I knew where it was and you could come to me to get it.

Yeah.

And so I didn't really have to pay for much anymore. So I got the stuff for free as long as I was bringing my people, folks, I could get it for free. I was making deliveries for folks. I was, I like, it encompassed my entire existence, basically.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I wonder, you know, I hear this a lot. So I hear this a lot that it's fun at first. It's contained at first and then slowly it grows into an everyday thing. What would you say to somebody who's in that stage where they're functioning, or they're only doing it once in a while, and they think they can control it, what would you say to them?

Run, run, run, stop, quit, do what you have to do, get— seek help, find a way out. Because the disease of addiction does nothing but get progressively worse over time, period. I don't care how good you think you are handling it. I don't care how good you think your life is. Something is going to get worse. It's going to get progressively worse no matter— and this is, this is not, this is not from something I've heard, or this is something I've seen with my own two eyes and experienced with my own in my own life. It gets worse no matter what you do. It gets worse because the cravings start to come more often. The feeling of need starts to come more often. The want starts to come more often because you, you, your mind becomes so entrapped in the fact you think you're having a great time and it's— It's sad, but I know I saw it. I saw it with my own eyes.

Yeah.

I watched. I had a good friend. I had a good friend. This was my buddy too. It was my running buddy. His name was Matt. Matt and I, we met on Grindr and we became terrorists. We were tearing Kansas City apart. He had the car, I had the money. So we'd get hotel rooms. We were partying. I watched him go from smoking to shooting in a week and end up ODing and in the hospital in a 2-week period. And that scared me. It scared me, but it didn't scare me enough away from the drugs. I just pushed him off to the side and found somebody else to fill his spot.

Were you ever— did you only smoke it?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I'm, you know, I was an addict. But from the time I was a child, my grandmama told me there are some things you just don't do. And I have never and never and never will I couldn't be an intravenous drug user. It's not that I was afraid of the needles. I just, I wouldn't, I couldn't do that. Like, I couldn't do it. I wasn't. And I watched, there was a, how can I put this without sounding terrible? But there was a difference in the shooters and the smokers. People didn't want people who shot their stuff around because they were thieves. They would steal from you. I had, I watched. One of the good— another buddy of mine who shot up, I watched him steal my boy's stuff, put it in his pocket, and then help him look for it. And I'm sitting here like, I'm glad I kept my stuff in my pocket. I said, you know what, it's time for me to go. Y'all have a good time. Let me get an Uber up out of here because it's too much going on. But I mean, it was wild. But the shooting it up was just— it was never something I could bring myself to do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good for you. Good, good for Grandma.

Great. She said, baby, look, some things you just don't do. And when I asked what she meant, she said, you'll figure it out.

Yeah, I love that. Okay, so then what was your, what was your, um, rock bottom here? Where did you slam against?

I stayed in Kansas City from 2014 to 2021. I ended up coming home For a little while because my my best friend of thirty years, she had she had a a baby at forty-one years old. So I left to come back to help her out. You know, she she you know she was working. She needed somebody look after the baby, and I call her my sister because we've been friends for thirty thirty-one years now. You know, that's my sister. So that was my nephew. So I come help her out. I came home in 2019, and we got into it over something trivial, and I ended up going to live in California. with my fam, with my mom and my baby brother. And my mom caught me getting high and ended up putting me into a great rehab out there for the gay and lesbian community. It's called the Van Ness Recovery House, and it's specifically for the gay and lesbian community. Um, what was that called?

I'm sorry, sorry, what was that called?

The Van Ness Recovery House. It's in, uh, it's in Hollywood, California, as a matter of fact. It's in Hollywood.

Okay.

Mhm. I, I remember distinctly when I would come outside and take the— it's on North— it's on beachfront Beachwood. I think it's Beachwood Traffic Way is the name of the road that goes to the Hollywood sign. So when I came out to take the trash out, I could see the Hollywood sign every morning.

Wow.

And I actually liked the program, but I wasn't ready to quit. So I ended up— I ended up leaving the house and going back to Kansas City and stayed there for another 3 years. I came back to North Carolina In 2021, in November. So I called my sister's family. They, like I said, they were— her parents, they treat me like a son. I called them, they sent me a bus ticket, and I came home to Fayetteville, North Carolina, where I'm originally from.

Okay.

I was living a pretty decent life until me caught up with me again, and I went right back to using again. And that was in I want to say January of '22. That was in January '22. I ended up moving out of their house and moved into a hotel where my mom and my actual mother and father would literally have to pay my hotel rate for the week to keep me from being on the street because I was too busy getting high. I lost my job. I got another job, lost that job. I want to say it was around August when my parents said to me, we're not— They paid for that hotel for 6 months every week. Almost $400 a week for 6 months.

Wow.

Yeah, they— my, my parents love me, and my mom always told me she would never see me on the street. I couldn't come live with her, not living the life I was, but she was never going to see me on the street. So they told me they weren't going to pay for it anymore, and I ended up going back to stay with my sister's family. And I couldn't tell you— I know I would— it was— I was at a— I was staying at a hotel one weekend, hanging out with some friends, and I went to go sell some stuff so I could get the money to pay for the hotel for another night so we could keep getting high. And when I came back to the hotel, I was getting off the bus, I saw the cops coming out of the room that I was in. And so I had to run. Oh, my God. And Dr. Dallas, I've never told a soul this. No, you're the first person hearing this story. I've never told a soul this. It was the cops and the Cumberland County Sheriff's Department were coming out of the room because my name was on that room. I was the one who got the room that night with my ID and everything. And I seen the cop coming out of it. I took off running and was able to get far enough away where I could catch a bus. And I went to my godparents', I went to my parents' house and I told my godmother sort of what happened, not the whole story, of course. And she was like, well, haven't you finally had enough? I signed up to go to a treatment center in Tennessee. It's called the Restoration House. It's a faith-based treatment center. And it didn't work for me because it was all Bible, no recovery. And I think I lasted a week in there because I cussed out one of the pastors. And they kicked me out. And I came back to Fayetteville where I called my mom and I said, you know, Mom, I'm going through this and I'm having problems. I'm using drugs. I've been lying to you for years. I don't know what to do. And she said, figure it the fuck out, and hung up on me.

Oh, okay.

Well, what that made me do is get up the next morning and start searching for treatment centers that would accept the insurance that I was on, Medicare and Medicaid at the time, and would accept my insurance. And I found Wilmington Treatment Center. I contacted them, and September— no, this was, I'm sorry, October 15th is the day I walked into that treatment center. That's my sobriety date. October the 15th, 2022, and I've never looked back.

Yeah. Yeah. I just want to, I want to stop for a second. And, you know, there's a lot of family members who listen to this podcast. Okay. I get questions upon questions upon emails from family members saying, I want to support, you know, my, my son, my brother, my partner. I want to, my cousin, whatever it is, I want to support them. I feel bad for them. They're in this meth addiction. How should— how can I help them? And, you know, based on your story, which is common, you know, your, your parents were paying your, your rent, so they were enabling you for a while out of their best, you know, out of love, you know. I mean, they had their best intentions. But when she said, figure it the fuck out, that, that was the catalyst for you, right?

Yeah, because she said— she— when I talked to her, because when I went into treatment, I didn't call anybody for about 3 weeks. Nobody knew where I was except for the people who dropped me off at the bus station to go to treatment. Those were the ones that I told. I didn't tell anybody because at that point I was doing it for me. It wasn't for anybody else. I was doing it for me because I had realized the life that I was living was not going to get me anywhere. And if I continued on the path that I was on, I was going to end up dead at some point.

Wow.

And so when I finally talked to her, she was like, the reason I did that was because you're grown. She said, you are 40-something years old. And she said, as much as I love you, as much as I want to help you, you need to help yourself. You have to do this for you because you do it for me or you do it— like when they sent me to that treatment center in California, I was doing it because she wanted me to.

Yeah.

Not because I wanted to get clean. And that didn't even last 30 days.

Yeah.

I was gone before the 30 days was up. I tell everyone that No one is going to get sober or clean until they are ready, and sometimes they never get ready. And I know it hurts, and I know it sucks to watch your family member, and you want to do everything you can for them, but this disease is going to eat at their mind until they figure out how to, how to, how to quiet it down.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you, you've got your, your Basically on Medicaid and Medicare, which by the way, if you're out there and you have no job, no family, nothing, you can apply for Medicaid and Medicare from what I understand for most anywhere you are. And that there are treatment centers that will take that.

Yes.

Am I correct in that statement?

Yeah. Wilmington Treatment Center is probably one of the best. It probably is. And now we also, not long after I entered Wilmington Treatment Center, they opened up here in Wilmington, this place called The Healing Place. The Healing Place is free and they have 100 beds.

Oh, okay.

It's absolutely free. And there's— it's a graduating program where you start in treatment, you start in detox, in treatment. They have a sober living housing area, but you have to be in that program to get it. So it takes about a year and a half to complete it, but it's well worth it. It's well worth it. They also host meetings and everything there too.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

But you went to Wilmington Treatment Center?

Yes.

And tell me about your experience there.

Oh God. Well, I mean, it was so interesting. It was because, I mean, I knew that I wanted to get sober and they made me stay because I have high blood pressure. So I ended up staying in detox for about 6 days. And you go from detox to what they call the Partial Hospitalization Program, what we call PHP. That's the main campus where there's dormitory-style suites. And the lounge and the classes and everything are. And the goal is to get from detox to PHP. So I had made a group of friends as soon as— I'm a pretty friendly guy, you know, so I made a group of friends as soon as I got in there. And I had to watch everybody leave me and go to PHP. So, you know, I'm as an addict wanting what I want when I want it. I'm stomping my feet, waving my hands, and throwing temper tantrums. But that was like, you're not going until you're stable. When they finally got my blood pressure down, they sent me over to PHP. And it's intense. It's extremely intense. Their motto is, your addiction didn't take a day off, so your recovery shouldn't. So we were in groups and classes 7 days a week from 9 o'clock in the morning till 4 o'clock in the afternoon. They didn't play that. And once you got up and left your— you were up out the dorms at 7 o'clock for breakfast. Once we all left our dorms to go into the main building, they locked your dorm. You couldn't go back. And they had somebody guarding the doors out there so you couldn't go back in there. You were not allowed to head back over. You needed to stay unless you were sick. And if you were sick, they sent you to the emergency room because it's not a hospital, it's a partial hospitalization program. So if you were sick, you went to the emergency room, then you had to go through detox to come back in.

Wow.

And in the mornings from about 9 to— I want to say 9 to noon, we took process group where we sat with a counselor as a group and we learned tools to help us get through. We learned tools to help us with our recovery, and we talked about the things that were bothering us. And no, she's an actual substance abuse counselor. After that, we went to lunch. And after that, we had classes where they taught about SMART Recovery. They taught about Celebrate Recovery. They taught about codependency. Oh God, I can't think of some of the classes they had, but it was sort of like elective classes that you could take until 4 o'clock.

Wow.

To discuss things that you, like I said, codependency, mental health disorders. They taught about recovery. They taught about the different types of recovery that are out there. So it was a whole hodgepodge of different courses you could take with different counselors from the center to learn more tools about dealing with your recovery from that point.

So you had an option of— did you have to follow the 12 steps while you were in there? Or it sounds like you had a variety of different approaches that you could choose.

Well, no, I mean, they had meetings at night after the classes were over. There was a meeting every night of the week. And there was one mandatory meeting for each group, one for women and one for men that we had to attend. Where they had panel speakers come in who had graduated the program and come back to talk to us. And on Thursdays, they had what's called the alumni roll call, which is what I participate in every once in a while, whereas the alumni will come back and speak to the patients who are in the program just to let them know that it does work if you really put the effort in. But no, they give you a step 1 guide and you can work on step 1 while you're in there, but you don't necessarily have to be on the 3rd They give you options because there's Celebrate Recovery for people who are Christian, and then there's Smart Recovery for people who don't want to do the 12 steps.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so there was options.

Okay.

Do you remember, was there a point where you kind of shifted to say, you know what, I think I'm so— I think I'm going to do this? Yeah, was there?

Yeah, definitely. Most definitely. Oh, excuse me, I'm sorry. Most definitely. When When I first got in there, it was sort of a fake it till you make it. Like I kept saying to myself, I can do this, I can do this. Because if I believe, if you keep saying it, eventually you'll start to believe it. What really sealed the deal for me, and I actually told this story, and when I went to, um, to the alumni roll call week before last, is that there was one night I was— it was maybe 3 o'clock in the morning and I couldn't sleep. So I got up and went outside to the gazebo to smoke a cigarette. And I'm sitting in the gazebo, you know, just watching the fountain and the pond, you know, thinking on my life like, Yeah, whatever. This is it. I don't know. Like, I— it was a whole lot of thoughts going through my head at the moment. Well, the gate to this facility just opened.

Hmm.

Like, I don't— there was no cars coming towards it. Nobody came in, nobody went out. And I'm sitting there, and the first thought that popped in my head, because I had— I had just— my Social Security check had just dropped, so there's money in my account. There's like, oh, there's like, oh, there's like almost $1,500 in my bank account. And I'm thinking, I can go get lit the fuck up. Let me, let me run. Just run. The first thought in my head was, run, bitch, run, run. And, and then an image, an image flashed in my head of me sitting on a street corner, homeless, with no money, desperate to go to Wilmington. 2 weeks out, not even 2 weeks later, 3 days later, after all that money and all that party was done. And, and I, I held my— I'm, I think my cigarette burnt out in my hand because I held my breath until that gate closed. I, I put the cigarette out and went my black behind upstairs, got in the bed, went to sleep. And the next morning when I got up, I said, damn it, I'm doing this.

I love that story. I really love this story.

Yeah, it's a moment I will never forget because that was a moment that changed my life.

Yeah, yeah. It was like, that's your test, right?

That was your test. I don't know. I believe in God. I believe in a higher power. I'm a Southern Baptist. I was raised in the church, so I believe in God. I believe God opened that gate and said, let me see what he's going to do. I believe wholeheartedly God opened that gate and said, let me see what he's going to do. And I sat right behind, right next to him. I'm telling you, it was a defining moment for me because in recovery, we call that playing the tape all the way through. When I saw that image in my head—

Yeah.

I saw that image in my head. I said, oh, hell no. Because by then I had told my mom, I told my dad, my brothers, my aunts, my uncles, all my friends, all the people who are closest to me. I had told them I'm in the program. I was talking to them every day. So if I just disappeared, they would have known something was up. And that was when the help would have gotten withdrawn. They would have been done with me. And I know that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I want to stick a pin right there because what you're saying important, something we haven't really addressed on the show yet, is playing the tape forward.

Yes, sir.

If you— that might be— if you hadn't heard of that, that might be something that could help you, is that when you are faced with a decision, there's a decision point, there's a craving, there's a temptation, just the right guy pops up on your Sniffies account, whatever, right? Is that play the tape all the way forward. This is really Really helped me a lot toward the end in terms of making a decision. Well, actually, the first few years of my sobriety is when that temptation came along, I would play the tape all the way forward to, yeah, it sounds fun, but this is probably, you know, I knew what happened when you're on the drug. I knew what usually happens and I knew what happens to me.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Oh yes, of course.

So I played it all the way forward and that the pain outweighed the pleasure and I was able to stay.

Amen. I totally understand, man. I will never ever, as long as I live, forget that moment. And when I went back to the treatment center a couple of weeks ago to sit down with the patients and talk to them about it, that was the When it came to be my turn, that's the only thing I said. I said, I'm going to tell y'all a story. I didn't tell it when we were at PHP. I went to detox because when you go to detox, we do a full hour-long meeting with them and each one of us gets to tell a little bit about ourselves and where we are now and where we came from to get to this point. And I said, I'm going to tell y'all a story from when you get over to PHP because when you get over there, you're going— because you don't see it right now because you're over here in detox. When you get over to PHP, you'll see that same gazebo I'm talking about. Go sit in that gazebo. I guarantee it'll help you. Oh, wow.

I love that. So you are now— you're graduated. You go back and volunteer?

As much as I can. As much as I possibly can. I did not until I did it the first— well, see, after you get out, even if you leave AMA or you coin out, you can go back and speak. You have to be out of the facility for 30 days.

Okay.

34 continuous days, and then you can go back and speak. And I did it. I waited for at least— I didn't think— I wanted to wait for a little bit of time to make sure that I was really into this before I went back. So I waited until about 90 days. And now, I mean, I work full-time, but my boss— one thing I love about my job is my boss is really supportive of my recovery. And so when I want to go back and speak, he doesn't mind. He'll let me take the To take the afternoon off to go do it.

Wow, that's nice. That's good.

He baked me a cake. He baked me a cake for my— when I celebrated my one year. His wife is actually one of the culinary producers for the British Baking Show, so he baked me a cake from one of the recipes that's on the show.

Wow.

I'm spoiled. I ain't gonna lie about that. I'm spoiled rotten.

I love that. It sounds like you're really loving sobriety.

I am. Recovery. I am. I am. I met one of my good friends, Christy, who was in the facility with me. And I don't know if I can say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. She said somebody tried— she— one of her exes called her and tried to tempt her. And she said she told that man that she was balls deep in recovery. And I was like, you know what? I'm taking that with me. That's going with me. I'm taking that and using it because I was balls deep in this. All right. I love my life. I'm in my own apartment right now. After I left the treatment center, I stayed in Wilmington because I knew going back to Fayetteville wouldn't be a good idea because that was the epicenter of my addiction.

Yeah.

And they told me that there's a very powerful recovery community here in Wilmington. There's at least 300 meetings a week. So there's no excuse not to find some. And I'm telling you, I meet people on the bus. When I was riding the bus before I got my car, When I was riding the bus, when I was walking around downtown, I meet people all the time who are in recovery. So this is a very powerful place for recovery here. So I stayed here. I stayed in sober living for a year. I've got my own place. I just bought a car. I'm getting ready to start school. Like, life is good. Like, life is good. There is nothing on God's good green earth that could ever make me go back to the life that I was living. But this didn't come easy. Everything that I've got, I've earned. I put the work in to get here. You can totally understand that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you started out, then you were at, you know, started from zero. What, what was it like? What would you— what advice would you give somebody who has nothing but needs to— like, they see in 20 months what you could have. I mean, you're getting ready, you got your associates, you told me earlier, right? You're going to go peer support specialist certification. Um, the job you have, you have your own apartment. What advice would you give somebody who's just starting out at zero?

When I left the treatment center, I had a pair of jeans, a pair of tennis shoes, a t-shirt, a pair of drawers, and some socks. That's pretty much it. I had nothing. And the advice that I would give to anybody just starting out is keep coming back. Keep coming back because it works if you work it. There's no other way to put it. There's no other way to put it. And be patient. Be patient. I know as addict and addicted people, we want what we want when we want it right now. And we are willing to go to the ends of the earth to get it. If you sit back and let go and let God, the things that will come into your life, everything happens in its own time.

Yeah.

And that was the hardest part for me, was realizing, because I'm an impatient ass. I'm a complete— and I want it when I want it. I don't mind throwing a temper tantrum to make sure I can get it. But having to sit back and just wait on things to happen or just— well, no, because I don't. I believe faith without works is dead. But putting in the effort to make the things happen. I got out there and found me a job. I got out there and found the things that I needed for myself. And little by little, bit by bit, piece by piece, my life got better. Mm-hmm.

Was it difficult finding a job?

This is another funny story. I had, uh, in 2023, I had gotten kicked out of one of my sober living houses. I have a mouth on me. I do. I got a mouth on me, and I don't mind letting you know I got a mouth. I'm going to tell you how I feel, and that's just, that's just always been who I am. I got kicked out for cussing out the man, the house manager, and I Went to my aunt and my uncle came and picked me up to come to their house. Well, the night before, I was going back to Wilmington, I slipped and fell at a gas station and tore my quad tendon. And yeah, it's really painful and had to have surgery on it. Well, I had found another sober living house, but they knew that I didn't have the help that I would need with that kind of injury after I had the surgery.

I know.

So they sent me to A hospital way out in Burgaw, North Carolina, in the middle of the country, to—

Yeah.

Which I think was a good idea, but out in Burgaw, North Carolina, to do physical therapy. And I was laying in the bed one day, bored as a mug, got on Indeed and saw a job for what's called a job listing for a hospitality ambassador. And I'm thinking, I'm charismatic and funny, I'm pretty intelligent, so— and I'm hospitable, I can do that. No, I called the— I called, I filled out an application and I called and left the message for the operations manager. He called me back the next morning and we spent 45 minutes on the phone talking. He hired me sight unseen. He's like, really? Yeah, yeah. He's— because what I do is I walk around downtown Wilmington and I help people out. Like, I have to walk up and be able to strike up a conversation with somebody, you know, to find out if they need a restaurant recommendation or if they're looking for a particular building or particular landmark, you know, stuff like that. That's what I do every day. And you can see I'm a talker. And what he said to me was, your personality is shown through the phone, so I, I just need to meet you so you can fill out your paperwork, but you're hired. It was— my mom told me when I told her I got in the job and what I was doing, she said, you know, you'll never find a perfect job, but you found a job that's perfect for you.

Yeah, yeah, you sure did. You sure did. Isn't it funny?

Now it's a year and a half.

Oh, oh, really?

Really?

Isn't it funny how, like, you, you're talking a lot about faith and you're talking about a lot about, you know, you're letting go and letting God— things happen. It— you would think that getting kicked out of sober living is a, is a negative But it actually was a bridge of events to get you to where you are now.

Had I not gotten kicked out of that house, I would not have found the place. I found a house to move into. The owner of that house is now my NA sponsor. And he's now my NA sponsor. And I was there for a year. And the greatest thing, the greatest feeling was when I told him that I got my own place. He hugged me. He was like, I am so proud of you. He didn't want me to leave because he was like, he told when he did the rental verification with this apartment complex, he said, I told him, he said, it's like you're, he said, you are probably one of the best tenants I've ever had. Said, you pay your rent on time. I don't have no problems or trouble out of you. He said, if there's something going in the house unseemly or untoward, you call me and let me know. I said, I sure do because I love my sobriety and I'm not letting nobody or no and mess around with that. We had a guy who he had moved into— I had a roommate who had started drinking. I walked into my room one night and the smell of alcohol was so powerful it knocked me back out the door. I picked up that phone and called him immediately. You got to do something about this. That ain't gonna work because I can't even sleep in my own bedroom because this fool in here drinking. Nope. That's exactly right. But that house, living there, I made one of the best friends I have ever had in my life. This is an old straight guy named Jimmy. Jimmy was a biker. And a redneck. Jimmy told me one day, he said, I've been in prison. I did 12 years in prison. He said, I never thought that one of my best friends in the world would be a gay Black dude. It would be something terrible. But that's my buddy. I'm grateful for everything that has happened in my life since October 15th, 2022, has been nothing but for my And I have met some of the most genuine, amazing, awesome people who love me genuinely for who I am and have told me if I mess up, they're going to kick every inch of my ass.

I love that. I love that. I have a question.

Sure.

Do you think— what are the unique challenges that an African American gay man has when it comes to addiction? And sobriety.

There's not a lot of— there's not a lot of— there's not a lot of things specifically geared towards our experience. And although we are all people, my experience is different from yours, is different from hers, is different from his. And growing up, I don't like to speak on it like that, but it's true. There is a systemic racism in this country, systemic undercurrent of racism and white supremacy in this country that has been going on and will go on until we as a country decide to do something about it. And the system of— the system, period, is not geared to prepare or engineer Black folks for a life outside of, you know, living in the hoods, in the ghettos. I hate to put it like that, but it's true. There was not a lot of literature or counselors or people who were prepared to deal with the African American experience. I think there were 2 Black counselors in the entire facility. And if you didn't have a certain— if you had Medicare or Medicaid, you couldn't get that counselor. You know, they were specific. You had to take this counselor because you have Medicare or Medicaid. And don't get me wrong, their names are Tiffany and Chris, and they're 2 of the most wonderful people I have ever met. And they made it up. And it was 150— there was 150 patients in that facility at the time that I was there, and there were maybe 30 of us that were African American.

Oh, wow. Wow. Wow.

Interesting.

Is that something that you are going to kind of focus on maybe?

Yes.

When you turn into—

Oh yes, most definitely. Most definitely. Because as an African American gay man, I can only draw from my own experience. And I'm not saying that I'm not willing to help anybody, but there's a gap in the healthcare community for the African American community, and I want to be a part of helping to change that. As much as I possibly can. And like I said, I'm a loudmouth and I'm opinionated, so I'm going to speak on some things I don't like when I see them.

Yeah, but we need advocates.

Yeah, that's definitely true. I mean, as a gay man, I want to represent the gay community as best as I can. But as an African American gay man, I think there's a special need for those of us who have been through these things to step up and be seen and heard so that you know that there's somebody who looks like you who can help you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that. So next, what's next for you? Can you tell us every what's next on the horizon?

Okay. Well, right now, I'm I'm just kind of laying back and basking in the glow of life. But I start um I start school August 19th at Cape Fear Community College to work on my my to begin my progress of becoming a substance abuse counselor. And in August, right before school starts, I'll be taking a weekend class for that peer support specialist course certificate so that I can actually step into the field and begin working in it. Beyond that, the sky's the limit.

Yeah, yeah, great. But you're— I have a feeling that you are going to really help a lot of people.

Thank you for that. I appreciate it. We'll do another interview in a year and we'll talk about that and see where I am at that point. Give people an update.

Yes, we'll have to do that. Yeah, you have the charisma and the, you know, the no-nonsense approach that people really need to hear.

Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. This has been so much fun. I was terrified to do this, but this has been so much fun, really. Oh, good.

Yeah, and what a great story you have. I love it.

Thank you. Yeah, I'm glad I'm not in that life anymore. I'm so blessed to be where I am today. I'm really grateful every second of every minute of every day.

Good, good. Great. Well, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you would like to have mentioned or wish that I had asked about?

No, I think this was fantastic. I appreciate the way you do things. It was, it was, it was a great conversation. And I really appreciate that. Because you let me tell my story and you ask questions along the way. I appreciate that. Thank you for listening to my story. Thank you for letting me share it with you. And thank you for letting me share it with the world. I hope that somehow down the road, some way, that I can help someone else. And I'm always available. It is MEP9151967@gmail.com. Email me if you need to talk. I'm here. Okay, good.

Well, I'll put your email address in the show notes.

Please.

So people will reach out to you. I'm sure that they will. You're really touching a gap in the community that, you know, that I haven't had. I haven't been able to interview any other African Americans yet, but I'm really interested in their particular struggle and their viewpoint perspective. And, you know, like you said, what's the experience like? Because, you know, there's the— there's shame around being gay. There's shame around being an addict. There's shame around being a meth addict. Then you have shame around being an African-American meth addict. I mean, there's another layer there.

It's a whole different ballgame. It really is a whole different ballgame. So.

Yeah. And I don't think we're touching that yet. But thank you for starting that conversation and having it with me.

Thank you for allowing me to.

All right, guys, if you want to get involved, you can comment at our Facebook page, Aftermath. We have a website, aftermath.net, and you can actually submit questions. You can comment on the YouTube version of this, you can comment on the Spotify version of this, or you can just email me. All of my stuff, all of my contact information will be in the show notes as well. Soon we're going to have a community on Discord and other ways that you can get involved in comment as well, a Patreon and those things. But just like Michonne says, you have to have patience, and I am trying to have it and just doing one thing at a time to get the, the podcast out there. So thank you again, Michonne. So, so nice to meet you. Thank you for this story, and I'm going to remember this gate story forever.

If you need to use it, use it, please. You are more than welcome to, because it— like I said, it was a defining moment.

Yeah, yeah. And I think I'm gonna name this episode Balls Deep in Recovery with Michonne.

I love that. Absolutely. Yeah.

All right, guys, see you next time.