EP 2:15 Reinventing Yourself AfterMeth with Evan

Hey y'all, today we talk to our very first drag queen about reinventing ourselves after meth. You know, when we move through the crystal meth portal, we're going to step into and curate an entirely separate world and an entirely separate identity. And after some time, we identify with our meth use and we become entangled with that world. That is why I advise you to behave as if you're in the witness protection program When you are in early recovery, you don't want to leave a trace of the person you once were. That shift will happen internally as well, but shifting it on the external will make a huge impact, speed up and solidify that process. Our guest today reinvented himself after attending treatment in a different city. He was willing to do the hard stuff it takes to find out who he was and build a new life. Let this story today serve as a practical model for you. Really listen to Evan's process. He was calculated, strategic, and listened to his social circle. A lot to learn here. Enjoy. The Aftermath Podcast is an outreach tool to help men who have sex with men break free from the addictive patterns associated with chemsex. Otherwise known as crystal meth or Tina. I'm your host, Dr. Dallas Bragg, a former crystal meth user, now recovery coach. Here you will find a repository of tools and resources intended to eradicate the epidemic that is plaguing our MSM population. Please note that the views expressed on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice. Also, we will be talking about drugs and sex. So if you feel triggered to use, stop listening and contact your local emergency system and/or your support network. Let's go. All right, welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast. Thank you for tuning in. I do appreciate it. I appreciate all the listeners. I appreciate the growth. I appreciate the interactions and the sharing. Also, I really appreciate your DMs, so if you could continue those, I really Really makes me happy, makes my day. It is my currency for this podcast since we don't have actual money currency coming in for now. Um, but that is my currency. Um, people saying that, you know, that listening to the podcasts when they get cravings, or I was going to use and I listened to your podcast. But some of my favorites are men who are saying, I have been invited to chemsex parties. I've been invited over to PMP. I've been thinking about it, but hearing your podcast and looking at your content, I've decided that is not for me. That is the best. That is— those are the best. Um, well, I don't want to rank them, but those are very special to me, I would say, because I think what's really lacking right now is a warning label, you know, information, education on the front end Especially these young guys who get handed a— who get injected at parties or out on the rave floor, or they get handed the pipe and they have no fucking idea what's in store for them for the next however long it takes them to get to come back to reality. So if there was some education out there, some warnings, um, I think there would be less people actually trying it. And as a matter of fact, there are, based on the DMs I'm getting. So thank you for supporting the show, and please continue to, you know, Rate it, review it, share it, send it to friends and neighbors, family members of meth users, so that we can get this into more hands, into more ears, into more eyes of people who need to hear it. So that being said, we do have a supplemental study guide that goes along with every episode. The link is in the show notes. You can also get the link, the, the study guide to your email if you go to drdallasbragg.com. You could subscribe to mailing— my mailing list. And you will get that directly to you. And it has reflective questions, it has journal prompts, it has actionable exercises. So you can really get into these podcast episodes. You don't have to just listen while you walk the dog. You can actually do some work. We have a free Facebook community, The Aftermath Podcast. There you'll find me asking questions about the podcast and then other questions and supporting each other. You can watch the podcast too, if you want. The video will be on Spotify, but also YouTube. Our YouTube channel, of course, is the Aftermath Podcast. Make sure if you type in the Aftermath Podcast that the phone does not autocorrect to Aftermath. You will not find me at Aftermath Podcast. So there you go. There's my spiel. I remember it all. I love my little card. I don't know what took me so long to get to write everything down and not try to remember it in my mind and stumble all over myself, which I'm still stumbling, but a lot less, I would say. Today we are talking about reinventing yourself or reclaiming. And so this is a near and dear topic to me. As some of you all know, if you watch my content, I've moved back to Charlotte, North Carolina, the city where I notoriously used in from one end to the other. And I really was hesitant about moving here. I fought it tooth and nail, but finally I was convinced And I'll go into that story another time. But a friend of mine, a dear friend said, you know, I'm living in the city I used to live in. I reclaimed the streets, the hotels, the houses. I reclaimed the parks. I reclaimed where I have been with new memories, with new groups of people, with new activities. And so that's what I'm doing. And so I'm setting out to do here in Charlotte. So, so that every time I don't turn down a fucking road, it doesn't remind me of something I did at that— on that— on that street, in that street, above that street, and under that street. Um, so I'm excited about that. And our guest today has been very successful already at doing this. My new friend Evan, who's actually in Asheville, North Carolina, not too far from me. But I met Evan through Kevin Hyer. If you have been listening to the podcast, you might remember Kevin from, um, Hire Foundation, who is finding employment for those in recovery. If you had missed that episode, I forgot to see what number it is, but look it up. It's in season 1. But Kevin has introduced me to a lot of people. He introduced me to Corey Bortnager, who is on the podcast, who is a screenwriter, um, and has his My Name Is Jonas film that's actually doing very well. Um, if you didn't catch that episode, please go back. So on and on and on, Kevin is hooking me up with all kinds of people. Oh, and Tim Gross too, is on the podcast. Anyway, Evan, welcome to the Aftermath Podcast.

Thank you for having me, Dallas. It's so nice to be here.

I love your earrings, by the way.

Thank you. I was recently told that I was not a silver, I was a gold. I'm switching completely to gold. I was told I was a— what did she say? She said I'm a late summer, so I'm really leaving gold this summer.

Isn't that nice? Was that like at a makeup counter or something?

This was definitely from Claire's.

Oh yeah, this was definitely from Claire's. Okay.

Oh yeah.

Well, Evan, could you introduce yourself to the audience, please?

Sure. So my name is Evan. I am indeed in Asheville, North Carolina, by way of, gosh, many, many places. This is where I've landed now. Um, professionally, I'm a professor. I teach chemistry at the college level and I love it. Which, let me tell you, if you are a meth addict and looking for a field to go into, chemistry, chemistry, really, really street friendly.

Like Breaking Bad.

Very Breaking Bad. Very Walter White, but in a dumpster.

Nice.

And yeah, I mean, my— so, you know, every teacher has a side hustle. And my side hustle is I'm a drag queen. So I started my drag career while I was living in Philadelphia, which is where I did most of my using, um, and have taken it with me to Asheville. I like to think I'm world famous now. Um, others may disagree, um, but at least some people on the street recognize me when I walk by now, which is very, very nice.

Nice.

I know, which is crazy because I think they recognize me because I'm so tall. Like, I will be at a gig and I will be the one towering over everyone else. So they recognize me as the big one.

The big one.

The big one. The one that's like 6'9. Oh, wow.

Are you 6'9?

No, with heels.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, sorry.

Yeah, you have to— you forgot heel math, which is you take your height and add 8.

Um, oh, 8?

Oh yeah, we're going big.

Wow, you are the big one.

Which, let me tell you, walking around in 8-inch heels is a lot easier now that I'm not 3 Red Bull vodkas deep.

Oh, all right, I bet. I would imagine. I can only imagine. Well, you are the first official drag queen on the Aftermath Podcast.

I am world famous now.

You are world famous. You are going to be We are, we are viewed all around the world, or listened and viewed all around the world. So you may get some requests to travel.

Excellent. I love traveling. I would be happy to come to a city near you.

What is your drag name? Is it— sorry, I'm like, you could take my gay card away because I'm not drag knowledgeable, but is it drag name or show name? I don't know.

I guess you could say stage name. Stage name feels the most professional. Okay, if you could call drag— drag is professional. Sure, call drag professional.

Why not?

My stage name is Sev, which is, you know, so Ev was a nickname of mine growing up. So it's Ev Sev. Okay, so I don't really have to change much there.

Yeah, yeah. So can we find your performances online anywhere?

Yeah, so I'm— my primary mode is Instagram. So it's @theonlysev. On Instagram, I don't think there's a Facebook account active anymore. I have so fallen out of using Facebook, but it's at the only sev on Instagram, and that's where I do most of my posting.

Okay, okay, great. Well, we will look you up. I will look you up for sure.

It's the only sev because there is indeed only one, right?

I would say so. Six nine seven. Terrifying. Well, okay, so let's go. I do want to— I want to dive into some questions about drag. But, um, first, could we backtrack maybe? And could you give us an idea of your story, like the, the hows, whos, and whats of your meth experience?

Yeah, I mean, I tell people that And I, I think this is pretty common, that meth is the last, the last drug I tried. Um, you know, once I found meth, I didn't really need anything else.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I was— I didn't start using until late in my general using career. I was already probably 24, 25 when I started, um, and only used for a couple years, but, you know, did certainly enough damage to Cracked me open. I had been, you know, I'd been drinking very, very heavily. I started my alcohol was my favorite for a long time because it loosened me up and made me friendly and the person that people wanted to be around, and the person I wanted to be around, which was I think more important than anything else. And it made me social when I was when I wasn't feeling very social, and it made me fun. And I think part of the reason I love meth so much is it did that times like 1,000.

Mm-hmm.

It made me fun and it made me happy and it made me excited and I could have sex for, for days on end. And, um, you know, I, I found sex— I found, um, meth through the— I think through, like a lot of us, through the, the chemsex world. You know, I'd been invited to a party. I'd been curious for a long time and finally said, fuck it, let's go. I was already drunk after a concert, so I said, let's, let's see. And it was love at first hit, you know. I, I think I, I remember that night I used all night. It was like a wild sex party and, um, left the next morning at probably like 9 or 10 in the morning in like the bright sun's sunlight. And I was like, It was like a movie. I was like, my life is open now. You know, this is the one.

Yeah.

And, you know, I went through all of the common things like, oh, I'll only do it on the weekends. I won't, I won't buy, buy it for myself. I'll only use in this, in this way or that way. of course, all, all boundaries got knocked down, all walls eventually fell down.

Right.

Um, and I, you know, COVID hit. So this was now 2020. And I'm stuck inside with nothing to do. And I spiraled out of control. Um, I really— my using just took to another level. And I You know, I was— I had a roommate that I was sneaking out at night to go hook up with people without telling. Like, I had memorized her sleep schedule and, you know, you know, had learned what it sounds like when, when she's snoring, um, so I could know when to sneak out.

Wow, scientific.

Thank you. I mean, I'm a chemist, you know, we have to get the, the spreadsheets and the timetables all matched up. And it was, it just got, it got very dark very quick. You know, I, later that year I ended up having a heart attack.

Wow.

I, or a cardiac event as they called it. I was briefly homeless. I mean, for a while there I was bouncing between motels just so I could have a place to sleep at night. But for a while there I was on the street. And, you know, I think there's there's this universal feeling of just being done, and I I got to that point because I was so it wasn't working anymore. You know, the drugs had stopped working, and I was not having a good time anymore. I mean, I had I to be fair, I don't think I'd been having a good time for for a while.

Sure.

Um, but I just remember I was in this apartment with no, no running water and no, no electricity, and there was a skylight. And I remember using and doing nothing and me being really pissed and, um, just looking up at this skylight and just being, you know, I guess we could call it praying, right? I don't think it was It's more like screaming, um, where it's just like, I just need to be done. Um, and that, that was the start of my recovery journey. That— so that was January 2021. Um, okay. When I, when I, um, got, uh, sober this time around. I had tried a couple times before unsuccessfully. Um, I, I had started about a year before that trying to get sober and just, just couldn't Keep it together and finally hit my, I guess you could call it my rock bottom. And it's, you know, it took a total geographic change and losing all of my money and switching careers for a while. And here we are.

Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. Um, I want to go on to the next— I want to go into the next milestone. However, I want to point out a few things, and that is, you know, we've all heard this, as in that, that alcohol makes you social, but meth makes— you said it made me social a thousand times more, right? You were fun, happy, and sexy.

Yeah.

Um, so many of us do it because of that, because of Social anxiety. Yeah, we're, we're in crowds, we're nervous. Or sexual anxiety, like, you know, we have a hard time having sex because we're insecure, or we're afraid we look dumb or sound dumb or whatever. And, and I think part of it has to do with the fact that we don't— we're not learning how to communicate anymore either, you know. I mean, the communication is kind of a lost art. Um, but I don't want to get on my, like, old man soapbox about that.

But writing letters to everything—

These old whippersnappers and their, and their phones. But it's true. But in, in the spirit of reinvention, right, reclamation, recovery, what did you do to, to get that same need met? Like, how did you learn how to be social and comfortable in your own skin in terms of being, being fun, happy, and sexy without the drugs?

It's been an incredible amount of forcing myself to do things that I'm uncomfortable with.

Okay.

I learned in recovery that I don't really like talking to people. I don't really like interacting. It makes me very uncomfortable. I'm, I have the— I'm very concerned with what other people think of me.

Okay.

And there was, I was, I probably had about 6 months sober and I remember talking to my sponsor and, and being like, I'm so lonely. I don't, I don't have any friends. Like, I'm just, I'm just sitting in my sober living and I wanna talk to people. And he said, well, are you talking to people? Are you asking people for their numbers and following up? Like, are you texting people that you wanna talk to on a daily basis? Like going down this list of things that of course I wasn't doing.

Right.

And he said, you need— if you want to be this social person, if you want to have friends, if you want to be in community with people around you, it's going to be work. I'm going to necessarily have to sit in things, in situations that make me uncomfortable. And the thing is, you know, one thing I've learned over the years is It was uncomfortable for a while, but it didn't stay that way.

Hmm.

Um, it was very uncomfortable for me to like walk up to someone that looks like I would like to talk to them and, and ask them for their number. Um, but, but now it's, it's so much easier. And it's just, I think, I think social interaction is a learned skill. Um, I think it's something that a lot of us have a lot of difficulty with. Um, because it's uncomfortable, and also because it's uncomfortable, we just don't do it.

Right.

Um, but leaning into that makes it— kind of taught me that I'm not in danger. Um, I'm not, um, you know, I don't need to be so concerned about what everyone is saying about me behind my back because chances are they're not talking about me. And it's made it so I can have friends now. You know, I have a huge community here. And part of the— I think the main reason I've stayed sober this long is because I've built a huge network of people here that I care about and who care about me and who I want to talk to on a daily basis.

Hmm.

You know, if I— part— I think part of the reason I was so unsuccessful The first couple times I tried getting sober was because I wasn't making no effort to build a community. This is not something I can do alone. Having people to lean on has been so crucial to my recovery. And it's made it so I can be successful today.

Yeah, I like that. And it's a clue for the listeners. To— if you can peel back what made you like it besides the all-night fucking. Okay, okay, yes, that was great.

That was nice.

That was nice. Okay, yes, we get that. But, but what else, right? What made you— and so this idea of it made me social. So meth met that need. It helped you build a quote-unquote community really fast. Right? Like it's the instant community builder.

I remember them. In fact, this, I don't remember many moments through those months and years because it's all such a blur in my head. But one of the moments that I distinctly remember as being probably one of the most terrifying moments I had in my active addiction was, I don't, I don't remember where I was leaving. It was probably a party somewhere. But I remember walking down the street and having the clearest day thought, I have found my people.

Yeah.

I think that, you know, I think that's what I was craving through all of this drug use was community. Um, it really— meth allowed me to form connections with people who also were uninhibited. Um, and made it easy. You know, I don't think it's— I don't think it's unusual to say that talking to people and interacting with people and making connections is, is scary and difficult.

Right.

Um, so it was— meth made it so I could just talk to people and be— I mean, I wouldn't say I was being myself necessarily, but I could be this person that they wanted me to be, or I could be this person that I decided I was going to be for the night. Um, and it just allowed me to connect with people in a way that I, I think I had been craving for a long, long time.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And you do, I mean, you spend 24 hours with somebody high on meth, you might as well have spent 3 months with them.

Right. I mean, you're, you're talking fast enough that you've covered enough bases that it's been 3 months.

Right. When you start out the conversation naked, I mean, you're right, you're learning a lot. Um, it's very vulnerable, right? But, but as you know, the thing about meth is eventually you have no one. Like, you, you build a community, but you actually on the other end of it have zero community. Um, and so again, for the listeners, is if you do— if, if you're— if one of your main reasons was made me social Then the antidote to that is to, just like with, with Evan is saying, is that building a community intentionally, but also he had to force himself to do it. And it was difficult.

Yeah.

The thing that I have to, for some reason, have to say to guys over and over is this is going to be hard.

Yeah.

Like, this is— it was easy to get into meth. It's hard to get out. It's like on a lower scale, it's like it's easy to gain weight, but you have to work to lose it, right? I mean, it's almost kind of like the same thing. And so I would say, you know, if you haven't done something that's uncomfortable, if you haven't forced yourself to do the thing that you're most scared of, that, that's where the key to recovery is going to be. That's where the key to your growth, your healing, and your ultimately Again, reinventing yourself. Reclamation, right? Um, so yeah, thank you for that. That's— I love that. I love what you're saying here. And now you have intentionally built your community here.

I have.

There, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, okay, so we're— you were in this apartment with no running water, no electricity. Was it abandoned?

Did you just It was okay. I, I think I, I'm pretty sure at that point I was on the lease. Um, but, uh, it has a lease, but like, you can't expect me to pay bills. That's meth money.

Right, right, right. Yeah. Interesting.

It's already allocated.

Yeah. Yeah. And I like what you said about just like most of us, we start out saying, I'm only going to do this on the weekends. I'm only going to do this. I'm only going to, I'm only going to smoke it. I'm not going to slam it. Right. Um, you know, we start with all those, those, um, declarations, and it all slips away eventually. So at what point were— where's the— where in the timeline were you going to school to be a chemistry professor? Was this after— during—

This was before, into the beginning.

Okay.

Um, so I mean, I, I had been doing— yeah, math. My math journey started after I finished grad— well, towards the end of my grad school career.

Grad school. Oh, okay. Because you're 20. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah.

So it started at the tail end of my grad school career, which, let me tell you, they were happy to get me out of there.

Oh, I bet.

But I, I mean, meth or not, drugs as a whole just like made it— I was not a good student. I was not a good student. I mean, I I would— I was showing up late, I was leaving early, I was, uh, barely doing my work. I mean, I was in a research lab, so they expected— they had some level of rigor expected for us, which I was absolutely not adhering to because I would show up like rolling from the night before, right? Like drinking, like going to lunch and getting drunk at lunch, you know?

Oh, I see.

Um, and then, and then of course when meth came into the picture, like it really started tumbling. Like I would just not show up for days at a time. Managed to get through, and I'm very, very grateful that some part of my body forced me through that.

Yeah.

Because it's how I've managed to hold, to get back into my career in recovery. But wow. Yeah, they really, they really took a, they really took a, took a chance on me. Yeah. And I'm grateful for it.

Nice. I love it. Okay, so you're looking through the skylight. That's your spiritual moment, as they say, right? It sounds like, right?

What were you—

what was your next step? What was the— what's the key? What was the key to you going from this wonderful apartment with a cardiac event to, to getting abstinent from it?

I Something that night, it was that night that I was looking through the skylight, that something— that must have been my moment of clarity. It was my— I would call that my spiritual awakening, as we say in 12-step.

Mm-hmm.

I spent the next 5 days on the phone with, with— I couldn't tell you how many treatment centers and friends of friends and And parents of friends and counselors all across the country saying, "I need to go to treatment now. I need help right now. Like get get me there tomorrow." Until I found a match, which happened to be here in Nashville.

Oh, okay.

And I I got I got lucky. I ended up being connected with a friend of my college. roommate, no, the mother of my college roommate who worked in addiction medicine in Detroit, who said, I will connect you with people. But I really, I mean, I was, I, that is what, you know, we talk about the gift of desperation. I was desperate. I don't, I don't think I had more than 5 minutes over the next 5 days where I wasn't on the phone. with someone.

Wow. Wow. You made it happen.

I did. I knew in my gut, in my heart of hearts, that this, this more than anything was the one thing I needed, like, right now.

Yeah.

And I'm so grateful for that. Because if that hadn't happened, I probably would have just kept going. Because, you know, how many times did you have spiritual moments in your active— these moments of clarity? Um, where you'd be like, I've gotta stop. This is the end. This is horrible. I hate this. And then the next day, just like completely forget that that happened and just pick up where you started or where you stopped.

Yeah.

Um, so some, something was different. Don't, don't know what, but whatever it was, I'm eternally grateful.

Yeah. Yeah. You finally, finally got the resolve, I guess, huh?

Yeah. Finally.

Yeah, I think it's— it is worth mentioning, and we've talked about— I've talked about on my content a lot, but, you know, I talked about, you know, I talk about all the, all the pipes that have been broken in your, in your career, right? Because you smash the pipe and you say, I'm done, right?

Oh yeah, the number of, the number of pipes I threw out in a different trash can only to go back and pick it out of the trash can the next day, right?

Right, right, right. We forget. There's— I think the, the 12 steps, they call it some built-in forgetter or something like that.

Yeah, yeah.

But you know, the— like, we've talked about weekend warriors on the show, and between, between Monday when you are spit out on the other end of weekend and then Thursday, you forget how horrible you felt in between.

Yeah, right.

It's euphoric recall.

And I— weekend warrior. I was a weekend warrior for a while. You know, I'm only going to do this on the weekends.

Right.

Um, and I think the dangerous thing about that for me, and the thing that told me that this is going to be a problem, is I would use— I would party from Friday night until Sunday night or Sunday midday, and, um, just enough time to detox a little before work on Monday. And that's all I would be thinking about all week is getting to Friday. Yeah, I was obsessed. And that was that, that should have been the warning sign that this is going to be a problem.

Yeah, good. Thank you for pointing that out. Highlight that because if you're listening and that is you, you know, you don't have to get to the place where you're in an apartment with no running water, you know, you can step in now. Yeah, right. So what was your favorite— what was the most impactful part of recovery? I mean, not recovery, uh, rehab treatment in Asheville.

Um, what was the most impactful thing about treatment? You know, when I talk to people about going to treatment, um, and they're like, oh, what's, what's a good place? What's What is this place better than, than this place? Um, the thing I always tell them is that it doesn't matter where you go. Um, if you want to be sober and you want to be out of this, it really doesn't matter. Um, you will find it wherever you're looking. Um, I think this particular place in Asheville was good for me because it was far from Philly.

Yeah.

Um, and when I got out, I knew no one here. I did not know the city. I didn't even know where Asheville really was. Um, I did not have a car. I did not have connections here. I, I re— I really needed the geographic change.

Yeah.

Um, and I don't think that's universal, but I was so kind of like you, what you had mentioned about returning to Charlotte.

Yeah.

I know every corner. Yeah, I know every street. I know everyone here. I, I needed to be away for a while.

Yeah.

Um, so the— I think the biggest thing for me about getting to this treatment center was that it was not— I was not going back to Philly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is also reclaiming and reinventing yourself, right?

Big reinvention. Yeah.

Right, is reinventing yourself in a new city. What I see a lot are people who move too early, or they move, they move before they've really committed to changing. Because, you know that old phrase, wherever you go, there you are. You bring yourself with you. But you, you went through treatment. So what stopped you from getting out of treatment? Because, you know, there's plenty of meth in Asheville.

Oh yeah, they love it in the mountains.

They do, they do. I've perused Asheville too, but what stopped you from going right back into it?

I was terrified. I really left my— so I had been in treatment a couple months before and gone back and relapsed, and my last relapse was bad. It was really bad. Um, that was that moment that, that we've been talking about.

Okay.

Um, and I was so, so scared of using that I, I couldn't. I was like, there's nothing that's going to bring me back to this. Um, that coupled with the fact that very quickly on— very quickly after getting out of treatment, I kind of started rebuilding my life in this new place, like this reinvention of who I am.

Okay.

I felt like I had purpose again. I think that a lot of people I see who quickly go back out, and, and part of the reason that I had multiple times gone back out so quickly is I came back and there was this void where my life had been. And there was, There was nothing left. Meth was my entire life. Um, so without it, who— what the fuck am I supposed to do? Um, except go back. You know, if I, if I hadn't immediately started rebuilding and reinventing, then, then I probably would have found it again. Yeah, because that was all I knew.

So if, if you were to— if I were to ask your advice Like if you, if I were to say, I'm getting ready to get out of treatment, I went to a new city, I want to reinvent myself in this city, what would your advice be?

I always tell people to hit the ground running, you know, get a job, get some friends. If you're working, find some avenue of recovery to work in, whether that be a harm reduction pathway, whether that be Dharma, whether that be 12-step, you know, find some community. and lean into it. You know, one, one thing I needed was to feel like I had purpose in my life. And I found, at the beginning, I found that through having a shitty job that I could reliably go to every day and make a small paycheck, enough to pay my rent. And the other thing that really saved me was I very, very quickly built a community.

Okay.

You know, if The one thing I really was craving through meth was community. Then if I don't find that in recovery, yeah, I know where to find it.

Yeah. Yeah. So you must have been a drag queen in Philly then.

I was absolutely a drag queen, a messy drag queen in Philly.

So explain to me, maybe this is self-serving for me to be asking In this, but I've always wondered, because there, there have been a couple times that I— I don't go into details— there's been a couple times when I've been in the back room of, you know, of where the drag queens hang out on a drag show. I have been to drag shows, um, but it looks— there's a lot of shots going on, a lot of snorting going on. Um, how do you perform? Like that, being drunk and high. I mean, is that common? I mean, that's just what I've seen. That's my experience. But is that commonly what happens back there? And why?

It is very common. There was— there's a lot of— there's a lot of drinking in drag. I mean, half the time I'm paid with drink tickets, or, you know, in addition to my part of— part of my pay is drink tickets. Like, here's your free drink with your check. So they're expecting you to drink, I guess, for the same reason as, you know, it's loosening you up and making you more fun.

Okay.

And there's a lot— there is a lot of drugs. There's a lot— there's a lot of snorting going on backstage.

Right. I saw.

Or a lot of going back, going out back to smoke something. And, you know, why? I think— I mean, why is there Why are there drugs in clubs?

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Why is— why is there drinking in bars? It's just that is the scene that it makes. It is, you know, drag is born and bred in that scene and is part of it. Yeah. And, and, you know, I think that— I think I, to some extent, I think that when I was drinking, I was probably a little bit more fun.

Okay.

In some ways, you know, I was a little bit more uninhibited and I was doing, doing splits when I shouldn't have been. And I think that it loosens you up and makes you a better host. You have more crass jokes and you make fun of more people.

Okay.

But it's just, I think it's just the nightlife scene. You know, there are drugs in clubs. So there are naturally going to be drugs backstage at clubs.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. And you can do a split drunk? You can?

I could. I've gotten older since then. I can't anymore.

Okay. So when you say messy queen, what does that mean?

Oh, I mean, well, let me tell you, it, it takes me about 1 hour to do my makeup right now.

Okay.

When I was on meth, and I am 3 inches from the mirror, right? Trying to perfect my eyeliner. Oh, it takes me about 5.

Oh, wow.

I was late to every gig. I was not nice. You know, just, just reading the queens for filth.

Yeah. Yeah.

Just and like, not, not playful either.

Just like, right.

I'm stumbling all over the stage. I don't know my words. I'm like leaving mid, mid-show to do drugs in the back. Like, just like a nuisance.

Okay.

Really not, not, not, not someone I would book.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Interesting. Okay. Well, we'll look for that then at a drag show.

Yeah, keep out— keep an eye out for the ones that are like, that like, you don't know their words. You're like, ah, you've had a couple, a couple drinks too many.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. So you were there in Philly, you were Missy. In your reinvention of yourself, you wanted to go back. So how did that change? How did your drag change as a person?

Well, I mean, I think one of the important things I did was I took, I took quite a bit of time off. I took about a year and a half off of drag.

Okay.

Because I needed to distance myself from that scene. That, that was extremely triggering for me to be in those environments and see people doing drugs and not want to do drugs with them, or at least like sneak a shot from the bar.

Yeah.

So I took, I took time off and I, you know, I, I was thinking, you know, will I go back to this? Will I ever go back to this? Do I not want to do this anymore? But I love it. And I really wanted to go back to it. So after about a year, a year and a half, I started doing shows again. And it was at first very difficult. I felt like I had never done drag before.

Oh, wow.

I'm like, in a bar. It's 12, it's midnight on a Friday, and I'm— and everyone around me is drunk, and I'm like, right, fuck, am I supposed to do here? I'm like standing in the corner, like, also remember, 6'9, right? Standing in the corner, um, with my, with my Diet Coke.

Wow.

Um, and like, just very— it was very uncomfortable, but I think one of the things that really helped me work through that is at that point I had done uncomfortable things before. I had sat in that discomfort, and time and time again I knew that if I sat in this discomfort and did what was right for me, it was going to work out.

Hmm.

So I went to these shows sober. I removed myself if I saw people doing drugs. You know, I would just step into a different room.

Okay.

I got very good at giving my drink tickets to someone else, which, let me tell you, if you are paid in drink tickets and you turn around and give the drink tickets to another drag queen, they love you.

Oh, I'm sure.

They love— I just, I, I stood true to my sobriety and I leaned into the discomfort. I was like, I know it's going to be weird for a Um, what is— so, so I've been doing drag for a couple years now here in Asheville. How is— and how is that different? Um, I don't do that many nighttime shows anymore.

Okay.

Um, I've become the brunch queen that I said I never would become. Um, and that's, that's been a lot easier. There's much less drinking at brunch. Well, the audience is drinking at brunches, but the drag queens are generally drinking coffee.

Yeah, yeah.

Or Red Bull.

Um, trying to repair— yeah, trying to— right, trying to feel better from the night before.

They're repairing from last night.

Yeah, right.

Meanwhile, I'm like bright, bright and sunny, right?

Yeah.

And, um, I've gotten very good. I've got, you know, I, I pride myself in my recovery that I have very— in some things I have very, very strict boundaries. Yeah, like, like, like if I'm offered a drink, it is a no. Right, like first word out of my mouth is no. If I'm offered drugs, the first word out of my mouth is no. If there are people doing drugs in the room, I leave.

Okay.

I don't, I don't want to see that.

Yeah.

And it works. You know, I was able to build this. And actually, one of the cool things now about being a sober drag queen is I have a drag family That is sober. Oh, I've like, I've like accumulated drag children and they're all sober. It's varying degrees of sober, which is awesome. And like, I am able to— I, I have a brunch now that's like at a, uh, what do you want, a distillery, but it's not liquor. They make craft soda.

Oh, oh, okay.

Oh, so like, nice. Um, I don't even know if you would call it a distillery, so it's like It's been about finding my niche.

Ah.

Um, and like reinventing myself from this like crazy sloppy drag queen mess to, to something that I'm actually excited about and proud of. Yeah.

Wow. I love that. So reinvention, we could also call this podcast episode leaning into discomfort.

Very much so.

Because that's how you reinvented yourself, basically.

Very much so. It's been my, my entire sobriety journey has been me leaning into discomfort, really learning to sit in that.

Yeah. So when you say— this is probably— everybody listening is probably going to be like, what the fuck is he talking about? But when you say drag children, do you— what do you mean? Like, are these people that you like mentored?

Yeah, kinda. So I, I mean, so, so drag families, right? They're, they're, they're big down south, like more south than here. There's a lot in Florida, but it's like there's one drag mother. Okay.

Oh, like the House of or something?

Yeah, exactly. Okay, so gotcha.

And all of yours are sober?

Yeah.

Wow, I love that. I love it. Very good, very good. So you have built this community, and I know from talking to you, chatting with you before the podcast, um, you have a partner I do. Um, what was the sexual reintegration like for you after, in your recovery? And was it difficult to— how did you find and, um, cultivate a relationship after meth?

Yeah, so that was another thing I took a long break from, was sex and dating.

Okay.

Um, because, because my meth use was so entwined with sex. That was, that was my thing. I was— I did— it was chemsex for me. Um, I took a long time off. I took also about a year and a half off before I had sex again. I needed to get away and just figure out who I was without that. Um, and I took even longer before I started dating because my whole thing is I don't, I don't really want to date if I'm not ready for outcomes, you know, whether things go well, whether things go bad, when things come up, I want to be ready for that. So I wanted to make sure I was stable and strong enough to do that for myself before I invited someone else in. So I took a long time off of dating and, and a while off of sex as well.

Yeah, yeah. How, how did you know when you were ready?

Um, I wasn't thinking about it anymore.

Okay.

I think that, I think that in early recovery, I really wanted to have sex. Because, again, just kind of, kind of like when you're a couple days off meth, and it's all you can think about. Right, right. I— it was all I knew. That's who I was.

Right.

So I spent a long time, and this is also— was also on recommendation from my sponsor. And I took enough time off to be able to figure out who I was without all of the chemsex.

Okay.

who is Evan at my core.

Yeah.

Um, and there came a moment, you know, I, I also stopped pushing it. You know, I was— no, I was not seeking out sex. I was not looking for it. I was not thinking about it. Um, and it happened as a— and then it actually, it happened as an encounter at an AA conference.

Oh, okay.

Um, which I think is really funny. And you know what? It was bad. Yeah, it was bad sex. And that was exactly what I needed to start it off. Yes. And I think, yep, being so— being now so far removed from the chemsex party scene, I know who I am. I— and I'm not obsessing over it anymore, which is good. Because it was, you know, you take a hit of meth and that's all you can think about. And he's— I needed, I think what— so it— what, to answer your question, how did I know? I wasn't thinking about it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was, I was so far removed that it wasn't even a question. Yeah.

Yeah. But you also leaned into discomfort again, by having sex that wasn't good.

It wasn't fun, right? Yeah, because— and actually, it's funny, my therapist and I have been talking about having bad sex recently.

Yeah.

And it's just like, there's something so— there's so many expectations that we put on sex.

Yeah.

That sometimes you just need to have a really bad fuck. Yeah, just like, just like destroy every single expectation that you have and just, just like Right. Just like it lasts 5 minutes and it's not good.

Right.

Um, just for you to look at yourself and be like, you know what, I'm okay. I didn't die. Yeah, I'm still the same person. Everything is gonna be fine.

Yep. That's right. That's right. Um, because many people have the opposite reaction. You know, they have the bad sexual encounter and they say, I'm never— they start lamenting and say, well, I'm never going to enjoy sex again. Um, so they either stop having sex altogether, or, you know, of course they'll go back in and relapse too, because they think they're never going to have Tina sex again, right? Um, but like you said, it just— it lines up with everything else. You have to do what's uncomfortable and unenjoyable and, and push through it. And, um, and it's almost like, you know, it's almost as if you have to learn how to have sex again. But like you're saying, Learning to be yourself, which means what do I like sexually? What turns me on?

Yeah.

Did I like— do I like piggy sex, or was that just meth? That was— that just meth me, right?

Yeah.

It takes— it takes, again, time. And we've said it so many times on this podcast, time, consistency, and patience is what it's going to take. Um, but I'm going to also now add your message about leaning into discomfort.

Yeah, the sex, the sex thing is tough. And the sex thing was, was tough for me because I, I did a lot of sex work when I was in active addiction.

Oh, okay.

So figuring out what I even liked was a huge hurdle. Interesting. And I'm still figuring it out.

Hmm.

Still haven't quite answered all those questions.

Yeah. So because I assume you did whatever your client wanted you to do?

I— they—

if—

listen, if they had money or if they had drugs, I was game.

Yeah.

And, um, couldn't really tell whether I liked it or whether I just wanted the money or the drugs.

Right, right. How has that affected— how did that affect your sober sex life? Like, you're saying you still don't know what you want. I mean, are you— how are you learning that?

Um, Bad sex.

Okay.

I am, you know, my— I'm very fortunate to have a partner who is very supportive and understanding and open to trying things. So I'm sad. So if I'm like, this is something that I don't know if I like it, can we try it? He's very open to that, which I'm very grateful for. And sometimes it's great. And we're like, great, we'll add it to the list. And there's been a couple of times where I'm like, you know what, I hate this. Let's never do this again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Good. I love it. Well, and now you're teaching, you're a professor, chemistry professor.

Yeah.

Love it. I love that. Well, what if I not asked you today, Evan, what did I miss that would be an important highlight for you and your story?

Um, well, I guess, I guess one thing I haven't really talked about is we've talked a lot about drag, which is kind of my side gig. I haven't really mentioned my professional career.

Yeah.

And the journey that took.

Okay.

Um, you know, I Got my degree and was teaching, which, which teaching on meth is not a good idea.

I can't imagine.

Those, those poor, poor students. Um, uh, and it was another thing that ended up being a trigger for me. Um, just the stress of having to deal with that was a trigger. So Like drag, I took about a year and a half off of teaching. In order to— I took a shitty job at a hardware store.

Oh, wow.

Which was, if you need your plumbing fixed, I got you.

Interesting.

And, you know, it taught me to— it retaught me, I guess, how to be responsible. And how to pay my bills on time and how to show up to work on time and do a good job while I was there and respect my coworkers to the point where I felt comfortable enough to take on a little bit of added stress. You know, one thing I see with a lot of people early in recovery is they're really quick to jump back into things that are really stressful or really triggering to them. And I think that's because us as addicts want everything back right now. And, you know, I certainly did. I was not too thrilled that I was going to be working at the hardware store.

Mm-hmm.

But I could not have survived at this job if I had taken it with 1 month sober. Um, I really needed the time to build up the resilience in my recovery for stress, for things going wrong, for things not going my way.

I see.

For added responsibility. Um, in order to be successful, I honestly, I think it goes kind of hand in hand with my drag career too. I couldn't have If I had been one month sober and thrown into a bar, probably would not have gone very well.

Yeah.

Or it, you know, I may not have used, but I probably would have been very uncomfortable and very anxious. You know, I, one thing I forget a lot of the time is that I have the rest of my life to make choices and to make decisions for how I want to spend my life. I don't have to do everything right now. As much as I want to be the perfect version of myself right now, I don't have to.

Yeah.

Um, like, like for instance, I'm planning on going back to school at some point. Don't have to do that right now. Don't really want to do that right now.

Yeah.

And the nice thing is, when I decide I'm ready, I can go. I don't have to, um, I don't have to make any life-altering decisions today. Yeah, no, time, time keeps flowing, and which is a curse in itself, right? But I, I have the rest of my life to make decisions.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, I really like that, what you were saying about resilience and Being able to handle things not going your way, or again, uncomfortable.

Mm-hmm.

Right? I mean, that's— I threw— I, I probably threw myself into working 2 jobs way too quickly in the beginning, right? Because I had to do 2 jobs, and I had drug treatment, and I had drug court, and I'm a probation officer, you know, and Trying to save money up. I was in such a hurry to get my kids back, but it was all about proving myself, right? Um, and of course I ended up going to the emergency room because my muscles spasmed, you know, at some point. Um, because I took on way too— I didn't have the resilience yet.

Yeah.

At all to be waiting tables at, you know, 2 AM, taking care of drunk drunks who wanted more tacos.

Maybe that's meth. We don't do anything after midnight.

That's right. That's exactly right. Yeah. And then have to go out and get on the bus, the train. Uh, that's right. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I love all of your story. It's, um, very inspiring, but also very practical, you know, and I think illustrates for, for listeners, I'm hoping, kind of the, the need to do hard things.

Yeah.

And, and push yourself, um, and have patience, right? Like, it takes, it takes time. You held off. You could have jumped into teaching, but you held off. You took a year off sex. You took a year off working drag. You took, you know, you really did this very methodically. But I guess maybe that's your chemistry head. You're, you're—

That's the science brain part.

Right, your science brain.

Well, no, actually, no, it was, it was, it was largely my community. telling me how to do things because I, because my brain was, well, I mean, my whole plan was I'll go to treatment in Nashville. I'll be there for 3 months and then I'll move back to Philly.

Oh, right, right, right.

And enough people told me that was probably not a bad, it was probably a bad idea that I stayed.

Not the best idea. Yeah, that's good. Great community you have.

It is.

Thank you, Evan, for taking time out for us. And I wish we could have done this in person, but maybe someday I'll have the right setup where we can have you back.

Yes.

And you can come as Sev.

If I'll— if your studio is tall enough.

We can have a wide-angle lens. Yeah. Thank you for sharing your story. I think it's going to help a lot of people.

Thank you, Dallas.

Yeah, you're welcome. And for you listening, thank you. Um, if you want to join in the conversation, please do. You can make comments under the YouTube video, you can make comments under the Spotify video, you can DM me. You can look up The Only Sev on Instagram and DM Sev or Evan and join in the conversation and, uh, send your comments. So, all right, that being said, we'll see you next week. Bye.