EP 2:19 Breaking the Silence of Chemsex with Alexander Cheves

Recently, there was a news report from an outfit out of New York City that reported on the chemsex problem in our community, and they interviewed me. I'll put the link to that reel in the show notes. Saying that chemsex misuse is an epidemic among men who have sex with men is not an exaggeration. It's also not out of the question to propose that chemsex misuse is the new AIDS epidemic. One impactful similarity is the silence around this topic. Besides this local recent news report, we do not hear almost anything about what is happening in our community from our community. I have seen news reports out of international outlets or heteronormative platforms here in the US once in a while, The queer community remains silent. Well, almost. My guest today has a global platform through Out Magazine and has recently used that platform to strike up the conversation around chemsex. Finally, someone in the US who identifies as queer talking about chemsex and sharing from his own experience. It's very refreshing. When I saw Alex's article online, I had to have him on the podcast to keep the conversation going. Guys, we have to get more influential members of our community talking about this. Even famous drag queens like Katya, who is in recovery from meth, will not speak about it, at least for advocacy reasons, and even has now teamed up with Grindr to advertise. The awareness we need begins with you and me. How can we in a small way stimulate conversation, warn someone who hasn't used, tell our story, or at least support efforts like this podcast or charities like Controlling Chemsex. Be the change you want to see in the world. Guys, men are dying, and not just physically like they did with AIDS, but mentally and spiritually. Every single day. I've watched the cognitive deterioration of men over the years as I've helped them. I've watched them succumb to psychosis. I've watched them lose the light in their eyes while we sit here and cheer on RuPaul, who has never, ever Tried to bring awareness to what's happening all around us, all around the world. Not to call out RuPaul, but that's the most influential person I can think of in this queer community. We have to get these people talking, but until then, we have to start talking. Enjoy this discussion. The Aftermath Podcast is an outreach tool to help men who have sex with men break free from the addictive patterns associated with chemsex, otherwise known as crystal meth or Tina. I'm your host, Dr. Dallas Bragg, a former crystal meth user, now recovery coach. Here you will find a repository of tools and resources intended to eradicate the epidemic that is plaguing our MSM population. Please note that the views expressed on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice. Also, we will be talking about drugs and sex. So if you feel triggered to use, stop listening and contact your local emergency system and/or your support network. Let's go. Welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast. So glad you're here, taking time out for support of our mission, which is hopefully to one day Eradicate the issue, the problems, the epidemic around crystal meth misuse in this, in the community of men who have sex with men. Thank you for joining us. If you're new, we're getting a lot of new viewers. Welcome to the family. I hope that you'll go back to season 1 as well and listen to a lot of our episodes there. Season 2 has taken on a different spin, I would say, more harm reduction. More harm reduction than I've ever talked about before. I'm really diving in and learning about what's going on in the rest of the world. And US is not the entire globe, we're finding out. So thank you for joining us. And if you have been with us all along, thank you. I appreciate it very much. Continue to rate and review the podcast. I would really appreciate that. Don't forget, there's a supplemental study guide that goes along with every episode. The link to that will be in the show notes, or you can also get that in your inbox of your email if you just Go to drdallasbragg.com, subscribe to my blog. The study guide will go out every Thursday at midnight Eastern time when the podcast goes live. We have a Facebook community you can join for free if you're still on Facebook. I think people are using Facebook for the groups primarily right now, but we have a group there, The Aftermath Podcast. You can join that, get free support, get questions. You can join in on podcasts. Critique and suggestions. I ask a lot of questions in there and we kind of interact with each other. So please do that. You can also watch this podcast on YouTube, The Aftermath Podcast, if you want to watch the podcast. Our guest today is a very handsome man, so you may want to watch the podcast. Alexander Cheeves is his name. He is an award-winning writer and essayist with a decade of experience covering sexuality, masculinity, HIV, and queer identity. His work blends memoir, journalism, and cultural criticism, often exploring difficult, intimate, and socially charged topics like chemsex. His writing has appeared in Out magazine, The Advocate, Vice, Them, Document, and many other publications. He currently writes the Last Call column in print editions of Out magazine. They still have printed magazines out there. And new web-only advice column. I love the advice column called Ask Alexander. His first book, My Love Is a Beast: Confessions, was published in 2021 by Unbound Edition Press. The erotic, sexually graphic memoir became a bestseller on multiple lists before winning the 2022 Jeff Maines Nonfiction Prize from NLA International. Second book we are dying to hear about will be released in October 2026. Originally from American South, he now lives and works in Berlin. Welcome to The Aftermath, Alexander.

Thank you so much for having me.

So glad you're here. I never honestly, when I reached out to you, because I saw your article online, Out Magazine, it was an article about chemsex. Your personal experience with it. I reached out just thinking, yeah, you know, this will— this inbox, this message will get buried somewhere in an inbox. But you, you replied. I was surprised, very shocked and surprised. So I'm really glad to have you here. You're definitely a major influencer in our community, and I'm just really happy to add the impact and the value you bring to the podcast.

Oh, that's so generous and so kind of you to say.

Yeah, so in reading, well, I have a lot of questions that they're all coming now that we're starting the podcast. But in reading the, the article, I was really, I was really excited to see someone in the, in the States talking about chemsex. I belong to a listserv that has— it's a chemsex listserv. The publications, the communication, the conversation is typically overseas. It's international. It's in other countries. They're talking about chemsex. They're researching chemsex. But it just doesn't seem to be mentioned much at all in the major press or in our queer communities. In the United States. But do you happen to know why that could be?

Oof. I think there's so many reasons for that. I mean, the easy answer is stigma, right? Yeah. I think it's a really difficult topic to talk about. And on top of that, what we're really talking about here is gay and queer chemsex, right?

Right.

And, um, even in just the publications that I've written for, I've encountered a resistance that has taken me a little while to understand. 2 topics about chemsex. And it's, I think there's this idea that, that the gay and queer communities have made strides in recent years and we want to keep up the momentum. And part of that process sometimes is putting on our best face to the public. And it's a tricky— the statement that gay male communities have a disproportionately higher rate of substance abuse disorder, that is a— that's a documented fact. But to put that as a headline on a major LGBTQ publication, Runs the risk of, of, of, um, what's the word, um, pathologizing an entire community.

Mm-hmm.

Worse, kind of smearing us at a time when we're doing better. And, uh, I think people are— I think a lot of institutions are, are sort of nervous to air our dirty laundry because we don't want to give our enemies anything to, to harm us with. But This is a real topic that, I mean, it's killing our friends and it's, um, I wish more people were talking about it.

That's right. Thank you for that because I've just, yeah, I, I, I'm trying to convert my anger about it, my frustration about it into something that, something that's manageable, something that's, that, that could bring empathy in so that I could maybe offer another solution. Right? Like, how can we talk about it in a way that isn't smearing, you know, that doesn't give us a bad name, but also, you know, addresses the problem? Because, you know, I had, um, Mark, um, geez, I'm losing his name. He's a writer for Pause magazine, um, but he talked about living—

Mark King.

Yes, Mark King. Yes, he was on the podcast and he talked about living through the AIDS crisis. And, you know, when people died, you didn't say it was from AIDS. You know, it was also avoided and kept quiet because of the stigma. So I think in a lot of ways, that's why the chemsex epidemic is being compared to the AIDS epidemic. It's like the next AIDS epidemic. It's just, it's, it's being kept quiet because of that. Um, which can be dangerous.

Yeah.

So thank you. Thank you for stepping up and bringing awareness to it and also bringing your story. I mean, I think that's very important. So speaking of your story, you know, in reading it, you had the reason you started was similar to all of us, you know, was we went to a sex party or, you know, we went to a hookup and was introduced to it, you know, whatever. And then what happened though with you in the end, I think it sets the story apart. And that is, you know, you talk about you were able to set limits. Um, you know, you were able to walk away at 11 AM the next day. You know, you were able to say, you know, this is not going to, this is not going to veer over and negatively affect my life. And so many of us would love to be in that position. And I've asked you this before, but what do you think sets you apart from those who allow it to take over and destroy their lives?

Honestly, the only answer that I have, and I used to wonder that myself too for a long, long time. And the only answer that I have is luck. That's it. It's like, you know, there is no difference between me and any of the men that, that are still, you know, that will never, that may never have a normal life at this point.

Right.

Men who I used to know and love and have sex with and have connections with and have romances with. I know so, I mean, I think, oh my God, after like a decade or more with— or my God, much more with meth in my life. By this point, I know so many people who are either, if not dead, then just, I mean, just gone. And the lesson of that is that we are the same. We went to the same events. We went to the same parties. We fucked the same people. Can I say that?

We had sex with the same people? Oh yeah. Yeah, you can say all the words.

Cool. Great. And, you know, we did all the same stuff. So why? But they had to teeter over the line and never saw the line and maybe never even realized that there was a line.

Yeah.

And I, for whatever reason, I recognized the line, tipped up, tiptoed up to the line. That line shifted and changed. I mean, especially over time. But I kind of knew when I was crossing it. Not always. There were, there were some times when I crossed the line and didn't really think about it or acknowledge it. But, but, but for the most part, I've always sort of had this like voice kind of hair raising in the back of my head being like, oh, you know, maybe you should be careful with this. And I'm so grateful for that. And I also don't know what that is. If I had some biological or scientific That would be really helpful for all of us. But it's luck. It's fortune. It's just, you know, fortune. It's luck. It's—

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And when we talked before, I was trying so hard to crack the case, you know, and figure out like, ah, so you didn't have a bad childhood. And you said, I did, right? You had, you didn't have the best upbringing, right? I mean, we could, there was trauma in place, I would say, right?

A lot. Yeah. My, my family, the reason why I grew up traveling overseas is because my parents are evangelical Southern Baptists, right? I was a, I was a gay hooker for over 10 years. So we're, we're not close. You know, and, and it was really tough. Also, I'm adopted and that, you know, with my therapist now, I've never thought about my adoption as something that would have created trauma until relatively recently. And only through unpacking that, I realized, oh, my parents obviously had some kind of expectation when adopting a child. And so.

Mm-hmm.

And maybe all parents have that expectation, but, you know, they're adopting this kid, so they've done something for it kind of already. I'm naturally very different from my parents. I don't have the same mannerisms. We don't look alike. And so they were just confronted with this person that doesn't even share their temperaments, their interests. I didn't share— we have nothing in common. And so— That was traumatic even before the gayness, the gay coming out and all the disaster that happened around that. And so there was trauma all the way through. And I can't lie that, you know, drugs are wrapped up in that. I mean, I probably have generalized anxiety disorder and And I live, I mean, I'm OCD. I live according to lists and checking things off. And my whole day has this kind of like rigid structure. And drugs are the doorway into a life off list. Drugs.

Mm-hmm.

Meth. I think about meth. I'm never sure which one turns me on more. The idea of getting high and having crazy sex for 2 nights or just living. Without having to sort of so carefully regulate. It's almost like it gives you permission for the next 24 hours to just—

Wow.

Fuck all, you know? And, and I think a lot of people who have neurodivergence and anxiety and stress and trauma from the past and who have to be very self-regulated as a result of these things, I think a lot of people like that are drawn to drugs like that, which do sort of give you this permission to let go of the reins a little bit.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. If you're listening, that might ring a bell for you because, you know, we're, we're, there's more and more neurodivergent men coming forth, you know, and finding out that they are, right? Um, and, and connecting that to why they're using.

Yeah.

Right? Because, because many times it's not a chemical dependence. It's a, it's a, it's a process, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a process dependence. It's, it's an escape. It's a release, right? Um, it's, it's so many things. Emotional, right? It's a way to emotional regulate. It's a way to do the, you know, it's a shortcut to all these things that we want in our lives. And it's so quick to do it. Um, how then, how have you replaced that experience of being released, having a listless life? Like, how have you replaced that then if you're not going back to the chemsex world? Is there a way that you've kind of, kind of have that same experience, that same release, that same escape in another way?

Well, to tell you the truth, yes, I'm not, I am not sober. I Um, I follow along the moderation harm reduction.

Okay.

Um, I do avoid meth, you know, meth. I, I mean, my God, if I ever have, like, it's like kind of what we talked about one time before, like, um, if I ever have 2 months off, I have no deadlines and no responsibilities and I can get sick and let my immune system crash and recover and spend a month out of the gym. You know, if I ever have that amount of time, right, kind of dick around, sure, I'll go crazy and have an amazing binge weekend, whatever. But, uh, I don't know any working adult that has that much time to just kind of do nothing.

Right.

And honestly, if I ever did have that kind of time, um, I'm not sure I want to spend it Having a little meth and a lot of recovery.

That's right.

You know, so, so now I choose substances that don't have that kind of comedown. And I choose, I choose substances that I feel like help me rather than hurt me. And meth, as fun as it is, and we have to admit that it is so much fun, but meth is fun, as fun as it is, Profoundly net negative. It harms me. It hurts me. Um, it has a lingering effect, whereas psychedelics like magic mushrooms and LSD, they feel like they help my mind. They, they turn something on, they do something good. Um, I used to hate marijuana and I don't really love it now, but it's kind of one of like the ones that I'm like, okay, it lives in the permission box if I ever want to. I just don't enjoy it, but it's one of the ones that I'm like, all right, it's all right, it's not too bad. I drink sometimes. I do drink alcohol. You know, I like a nice cocktail because I never really seem to have a problem with alcohol, but I acknowledge that that's not the case for everybody. But like everybody listening to this and like everybody who's in this community, I've had to accept that there's no replacement for meth. You know, the goal for me isn't to find the same experience on another thing. It's to learn a new approach. It's to learn sex in a completely new way and to appreciate sex without it and to appreciate sex sober. And, you know, It's been a while since I last did meth, and that is still the work. That is still the journey as to, you know, the body ages and abilities change, and letting myself grow with sex and, and unleash and, and, and learn to, you know, to unleash is the lifelong journey.

Mhm. Yeah, thank you for that. And so I want to return to that, but you mentioned psychedelics, magic mushrooms, and you drink sometimes. So for the listeners, you know how I feel about psychedelics. I've mentioned my whole recovery journey. I honestly went deep and didn't really start until I did an ayahuasca retreat. And before that, I did a psilocybin retreat. The psilocybin even was a an experience where I just suddenly finally felt connected, you know, to the earth, to myself, and everything that seemed to matter before didn't, right? Like the perspective shift of that helped me kind of— it's fed the philosophy I have now that I try to help men realize is that you have to zoom out. And question every rule that's given to you in recovery and figure out what's best for you. Empower yourself. Experiment, you know, and in that, and when you do that, when you figure out I can have a cocktail, it doesn't lead to meth. You've empowered yourself. You've made your own decisions. You've reconnected with your intuition, with your own heart. And in doing that, that's going to bleed over into life. In general, that's how you're going to begin to experience life is questioning, be skeptical of everything. You don't have to follow along with some rule or you don't have to follow along with someone else's recovery journey just because it worked for them. Do you agree with that?

I do. And that's such a beautiful way to put it.

Can I ask what your first psilocybin trip Yeah, well, I went, I had a sitter, you know. So the first thing I did was I went to a cacao ceremony. Have you ever done cacao? It's the raw cacao bean, the chocolate bean, and you melt it down and it's a heart opening, right? So it opens your heart and then you do shamanic breathing or holotropic breathing. It's really in and out. And I went into this other state, you know, and I was having these visions and I was, you know, this, I think my grandma, somebody came to me, right? And it was just like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, there's more, you know, there's something out here that's even, you know, there's people talking to me, there's guides, you know, there's something more for me to experience than, and life doesn't have to be surface level. Like I don't have to be a 9 to 5, go home, watch Netflix. You know what I mean? Like, There's just, it just opened up this door to say there's more to life. And so the instructor was this hippie-dippy woman. And I just mentioned psilocybin. And she says, I'm a sitter. So I came to her house and, you know, she guided me through it. But the first experience was just, it led me through, the mushrooms led me through some past experiences I'd had and let me see them from a different perspective. It helped me see myself connected to everyone else and that I wasn't a victim, you know, that everything was happening. I say this all the time. Everything is happening for me.

Yeah.

In an intricate plan, right? So if I do get hurt by someone, it's for my good. It's not them. They're not an evil person. They're doing their part in this intricate curriculum that is mine.

Yeah.

So I had all, you know, it was just really, it was just download, download, download. Um, and I, I walked outside, you know, I was, I was, I was on it. I walked outside and the city bus drove by and the city bus that I had, that I had been on as a homeless person, you know, in the early recovery. That same bus line, you know, that I had, that I had spent hours and hours on a day trying to get to the city to pee in a cup and get to work. And there it was. And it was a reminder of how far I'd come. And it was just like, wow, you know, everything was on purpose to get me to where I am standing right this second. So that was, that's a little summary of it.

I love that so much. Thank you for sharing that.

Well, thank you for asking.

I was, um, I was upstate and the first time, the first time was just wonder and music and joy and a big hero dose with, with a guide as well. But, um, you know, I just, I, I dedicated without realizing what I was doing. I kind of dedicated sort of a few months or I don't know really how long it lasted, but there was this period where I was doing like Maybe once a month doing a, like a full magic mushroom dose. And one of those times was with a guide guide, but the others were just with a trusted sort of companion, friend source who I knew would take care of me, you know, was very experienced with these substances. And it was on one of those actually with my friend. And I didn't realize the significance of this moment when it happened, but I remember lying in bed and we're somewhere upstate in, I think in the Catskills actually, in upstate New York. And I was confronted with the fact that I've battled depression on and off my whole life. And it's something that has colored my childhood, and it's rooted in anxiety and my relationship with my family. And I confessed to my friend, and this is the first time I confessed this to any person, that I had doubts about whether or not I would survive my parents, and that my own mind is going to be my biggest struggle in my life. And something I've always known. And I think that that is true of most creative people I admire and love the most is, and it's sort of part of the creative journey, right? Like your mind is your difficulty. And most of my life I had been fighting it and fighting this depression and having a bad relationship with it. And I remember lying in bed and thinking that my body was sort of dissolving and melting into this like golden stuff that was soaking into the ground. And I, and then in my mind, I pictured that all these animals that die kind of become this golden stuff and get soaked into the ground. And then I zoomed out just like you said, and I could see the earth sort of from a distance. And at some point it explodes and all this golden stuff bursts outward and comes stars and life and planets and galaxies. And it just made me realize that right now I'm on this side of life, the living side. And there is another side of life. We all circle through death at some point. And it's, it's all life. It's, um, and I'm part of this thing, this cycle, this loop without end. And why am I fearing this state that inevitably I'm going to return to? While I'm here right now in this loop, I have something really special and I kind of have to hold on to it. And, and I realized, you know, Alex is kind of cool and it's kind of my one job to take care of him, you know. Somewhere in those mushroom trips, And I don't know if it was the mushroom trips or meditation or having a harm reduction therapist at the time. It was probably a combination of all 3, but at some point right around the time that my first book published, or actually a little bit before, um, because I was 28 or 29, I kind of— something clicked. My one job in life is to take care of this person.

Wow.

And Alex is a difficult, high-maintenance human being. And yet I am tasked with caring for him and defending him against all, against everything. And some days that's a full-time job. Sometimes it's the only job I can do that day, but it's the one relationship I have to make work. And I did. I realized, you know, if I can like me, as it turns out, RuPaul's right about everything. You gotta love yourself.

Yeah.

Something clicked. I started to, and I think that if I had to pinpoint the moment that meth, that I could look at meth and make a better call on using it or not, it was that. Learning to just like me.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Well, that does set you apart, you know, because so many of us do not love ourselves. We do not like ourselves. We're in a war against ourselves, right? Um, yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I love it. Um, yeah, well, we didn't get— I didn't plan to go in that direction. I'm glad we did though. Um, you know, because it's, it's— I, I have seen— so a little bit, a little story as far as psilocybin goes. Um, I was working at a restaurant and there was a, one of the One of the busboys, you know, he's so shy and just so nervous. And, you know, he was just always hiding in the corner and everything. And he had heard, I guess, from somebody that I was the mushroom guy. So he, you know, he timidly came up and he was like, do you think I could get a couple of those mushrooms? I'll buy them, whatever, whatever. I was like, nope, you're not buying anything. I was like, I'm giving them to you. I think everybody should be on mushrooms. So I gave him some to take. And I'm telling you, it was a few days later, he comes in and he's talking to everybody. He's laughing. He's like full of life. He came up to me and he hugged me. And he was like, I called my dad for the first time in years. And we talked. I was like, oh, wow. You know, this is what it's all about. Like, he, his whole perception of himself. had changed in one little night with 3 little mushrooms. You know, it's amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's sometimes, that's sometimes how it happens.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yep. Yes. Well, back to, I want to touch on something that you said that I wanted listeners to recognize is that there was a voice in your head also that said, This probably isn't a good idea. You chose to listen to that. And I think that's one of the differences, right? I think we have a decision point. And I think also if we were to, if there were more men to come forward to say, to share your experience, because I don't think they do. Like, I used meth, I used, I was in chemsex, I heard that voice and I decided to get out. I think there's a lot more of those out there that aren't being heard. It's just the ones that Make the choice to not listen and go down the other route. I think they get, get a lot of the, the, the, the, the coverage and, and, and, and I, and those are the men that come forth with their story too. So I just want you to, if you're listening and you're kind of experimenting with it, or you think you want to, that decision point, that voice, if you choose to listen to it, could be the difference for you. It's a precipice. It's a, it's a, you know, it's a crossroads. You mentioned that this is a lifelong journey that you have in learning sex in a new way. So what is, what is your process for that? Because that, that's the biggest question that I have from listeners is, what do I do now about sex? Like, how do I ever enjoy sober sex again?

What—

I'll never have Tina sex again, you know, that kind of thing. But what are some steps that you personally have taken?

Oh, man. Well, one thing that I kind of had to accept, and it's a tough lesson for people, is that unfortunately, with and without meth, sex changes. You know, I'm not 22 years old anymore, you know, able to just squirt a little water up my butt and have sex all night with, you know, everybody. Like, right, the body just works differently now.

Right.

It's so mean and unfair and stupid, but it's— and, and what the, the, you know, I think that one of the comforting aspects of chemsex and Tina sex is that it's pretty consistent. If you get high and add enough factors, like the right hookups, the right You know, like, you can kind of guarantee that you're probably gonna have a good time. Like, you know, like, get out the lube and the dildos and go crazy, right? Like, you know, it's teen sex. And what it does is, I guess, depending on how long you do it, it creates this idea that, that, that your sex life hasn't changed because you can kind of override your body's natural changes and deliver the same kind of experience that you had 5 years ago, you know, if you take enough stuff, like, I truly feel like if you get high enough, you can probably deliver a pretty fun time. And so, when you're having a lot of chemsex, you don't always notice the natural cycles of how your body is changing, how, how sex is changing on its own, because you, you don't, you can't, you're not really seeing sex clearly, you're seeing sex through the lens of the drug, right?

Yeah.

And one of the sort of one of the toughest things coming out of having a lot of chemsex was just the stark realization that, that I'm going to have sex differently than I did in the past, no matter what drugs I take, no matter what I do, because I'm just a little older. I'm better at sex in some ways. I'm, you know, I like different things. I have different kinks, you know, that, I mean, that one really took me for a curveball. I have different fetishes. On the other hand, I didn't realize that because when I got high, I had all the finishes, right?

Right.

You know? And, and now that I know that the option always exists to go out and get high and have sex with everything that moves, because I know that that's always on the periphery, always an option, always part of my reality now. Now sex means having a willed commitment to exploring it sober, mostly sober, and accepting the fact that some experiences will suck. You know, like that, you know, there will be lackluster sex, there will be sex in which I don't perform well, there will be sex in which we don't connect. And And that does make it daunting. And there's no way around that being daunting. I don't think there's a mental trick or an easy formula to sort of make sex easy because sex isn't easy. Sex is hard. We have to prepare for it. We have to douche and eat right. And, you know, and douching's like, it's always a chore for everybody. Everybody hates douching. Like everybody hates, you know, when it doesn't work fully. Everybody hates how long it takes. Like—

Yeah.

Sex is hard. It's a, it's a difficult thing. And I, I would love to have some tricks that made it easier or gave me shortcuts into guaranteeing that it's fun. But that shortcut is meth.

That's right.

And I'm just having to accept that I'm now doing sex without shortcuts. And, um, and that means sometimes having a shitty night. That sometimes, that sometimes means having a great night, but also it sometimes means kind of having a night that's like somewhere between the two. Like a lot of sex isn't great or terrible. It's just kind of fine. And you have to accept that too. And it is always worth it because once the alternative, once chemsex is in the mind and in the world, it's always there. You know, I don't— I'm never going to forget that that's an option. But it's now in the same way that I choose not to do it. I choose willingly, actively to explore sex. And sometimes I have to kind of force myself like, okay, tonight, we're gonna have a sex night, whether that's solo, whether that's with somebody else. Like, it'd be so much easier to just stay home and watch Netflix. But I'm gonna regret not— I'm horny, I'm gonna regret not doing something with that horniness if I don't. So I'm making this little commitment to myself to go out and try something, try to meet somebody, And if it works, great, great. And if it doesn't, now that's one of the, one of the parts of doing sex without Tims is that sometimes it's not great.

Yeah, yeah. Just like anything else, I think it comes down to perspective.

Yeah.

Right. Yeah. So if you're listening, Or to the listeners, if you've heard all the discussions we've had about this, the message is consistent with Alexander. It's patience, it's consistency. It's almost like, it's almost like an experiment, right? In terms of, right? Because like you said, we come out of it thinking, we remember this great time we had being fisted, right? Or pissed in or pissed on or whatever. And then we think we have to recreate that. sober, and then it's not anything like it. And then we think it's over, right? But that just means you don't like it without meth, right? I mean, sometimes it just means it was fun with meth. It's not fun now. But there can be other things that are fun. Like you said, you discovered fetishes you didn't know you had, right? Or didn't, didn't before or something like that, right?

Oh, and that's the cool thing is that You know, I have this operative theory that all different substances inspire, like you have a sober self, you have a sober you, and then you have a you on meth, and then you have a you on, you know, like everybody has like a drunk self. And, you know, I really bristle at discussions about which version of a person is the most authentic. You know, some people say, oh, somebody, a drunk person is so, you know, drunk thoughts are true thoughts. I completely disagree. I don't— I think that mind-altering substances alter the mind, and when the mind is altered, then the self, the personality, the individual is just different. So we all have these different selves that can be accessed with different substances. And yeah, I became a kinky motherfucker before meth, but also I became a very kinky motherfucker on meth. And I had meth kinks. And I thought, and to some extent, it's true, I did lose some of them. I don't know what I gave up. Like, giving up meth means maybe means giving up some or all of my meth self. And that sometimes includes a kind of sex. But what that means is that sober Alex, sober me, has sex that sober Alex likes, and Alex with a couple drinks in them has You know, Alex with a couple drinks in him. Well, yeah, I mean, it just, um, it was nice to discover that I have sexual sides of me that exist outside of meth and can appear outside of meth. Um, and so what I thought was loss of all my sex life and all my sexuality Was not as big a loss as I thought. And that's what I would tell everybody is that, you know, when you first go off Hims, you probably think that you've lost your entire sexual identity, your entire sex life. And my, my offering of love to everybody who's trying to do that would be, be open to the journey. I think it's great that you might have new things that are waiting in the Can you say that again?

I want you to repeat that.

You, there might be, there might be new things. There might be new discoveries. And, um, you know, you are different after meth. Like meth does change you. It changes your perspective of sex and, and, and more than just meth is lost. I will fully admit that. More than, more than just the drug is given up. When you give up the drug, you give up that version of sex. Um, but there are more discoveries left. And don't trick yourself into thinking that there's nothing else to discover and that there's no more really wild, nasty fun to be had because there is. It just will be different.

Love that. Thank you.

Yeah.

So many, so many men need to hear that. So I'm glad to hear you say it on this podcast. Thank you very much. Let me ask you, what, what precipitated, what, what made you want to write this article? And did you have any fears about going public with it at all? I mean, well, I mean, based on your book, you're, you know, you've, you've put everything out there right already, but What, what was the reasoning behind the article?

You're really gonna hate this. Um, honestly, um, I would love to say that I pitch things and, and have a lot of say over what I publish, but in reality, everything that I write for magazines is written between me and my editor. You know, we More like a good 50% of the articles that I write are at least topically suggested because, because he's a really wonderful editor at Out magazine. He feels that there's not anybody else talking about this stuff. And so actually my editor proposed an article on Chemsex because he thought it's part of the conversation. It doesn't get enough. It hasn't been written about enough. You write about it. And I did. So there was no decision that made me decide, okay, I want to tackle this. But I knew that when— I knew in my editing piece with The Sign, I would write about it in a way that's as honest and kind of know-how as far as possible.

That's what I do.

That's right.

Yeah, that's what you do. Good. Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much, uh, for it. Um, I was interested— this is way kind of off topic, but one of the topics that you write about is masculinity.

Yeah.

And that's kind of a, a word that keeps coming up, um, in my discussions with clients and with DMs, with other podcast guests. What, what is your view on how What is masculinity now for us, and what implications does that have on the queer community?

I think masculinity is one of those really subjective, hard-to-define things. Masculinity is a highly personal, highly customizable experience of Being a man. Um, and I identify as a man and gender, and I identify with the gender that I was given at birth. But I've really thought about it. I mean, there, there are parts of my life and parts of my sex life that have made me raise those questions. You know, what, what is the extent of my gender identity? What does that mean? What do I like? And, um, and I think it's important to say that masculinity in today's time is not defined by consistent, measurable prerequisite traits. Masculinity is the most customizable, malleable shifting thing. It is just the experience of manhood. And that experience is going to look different for so many people. Everyone.

Thank you. I know that was a random question. But when I read that in your bio, I was like, I want to ask that and put that in here. Because, you know, there's a lot of us, us as in I'm speaking for everyone. I'm currently not on it. But, you know, on Grindr, you see Or sniffies, I guess, even mask for mask, you know, or no fats, no femmes, all that kind of thing. And we've talked a lot about on the podcast and in my content about the effects that might have on queer men and feeling even more isolated or left out, which could lead to the chemsex shortcut of feeling a part of the community. All of us, you know, suddenly there's no There really isn't a no fats, no femmes. It's, you know, you got a dick in a hole, come over, kind of, you know, almost.

I mean, I— this is something that I've struggled to articulate in the past, but I'm not strictly speaking gay. I mean, I, I say gay because I identify with gay male culture, um, very much. And I— but my sexual experience very much extends beyond that. Um, I Depending on the chemistry and the connection the biobites has with men, with women, trans men, trans women, non-binary people. And, um, it's been really beautiful and great because, you know, I know dominant alpha women, cis women, who, in my view, in the context in which we played, Embody a beautiful version of masculinity. I mean, that, like, I, here in Berlin, there's a woman, Dom, who I play with every now and then. And I mean, she's not just masculine, she's like an alpha. And she's, she's like, I don't know, a head shorter than me, tiny, but she like cruised me and made this Move, and it's just a total dumb— and just, which proves that masculinity doesn't even have anything to do with body. It's— she just owns this kind of alpha dominant masculine energies, low voice. And, and, and around her, I was this little nothing, you know, like, like I felt, I felt emasculated. That's kind of the point, right? It was fun. So it has nothing to do with gender, has nothing to do with body. It's just, it's, it's a sense of oppression. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that answer. Yeah. And I try to— I'm trying to say men who have sex with men, MSM, you know, when I'm, when I'm referring to, because there's a lot of straight men who you know, identify as straight, but having sex with men is a fetish for them, and it's a fetish they pursue when they're on meth, right? Um, or a lot of bisexual men, you know. So it's— it is a broad, broad stroke to just say gay. But what do you think? Is there a message here in— for the queer— for the queer community, or the community of men who have sex with men, that this is quickly becoming a global problem. I mean, it— meth. Yeah. Chemsex and meth. I mean, what, what is it saying to us, do you think? And what is, what is something that we can, can do besides, I mean, talking about it? Yes. Um, but what, what do you think the message is here?

Um, I'm a member of a gay youth group and we just had I had a discussion recently about somebody raised the topic. It might have been me, actually. I might have raised the topic. I asked the group, do you guys think that chemsex and drug abuse is worse now than before? And opinions were really varied because there was different ages and the opinions of the older men in the group were really Bible here because all the young guys are convinced that there's been no time that it's as bad as the present. And then sort of daddies in the room, but like, kids, the drugs might be different. Like, we were all doing drugs back in the '70s. The drugs may have changed toxicity and the way we use drugs may have been different, but I think that every generation of men who have sex with men, gay and queer men, will struggle with substance abuse and have struggled with substance abuse. And now, because it's part of our history, part of our culture, it's just one of the things that kind of passed down. And I I, you know, I just trust data and metrics on this stuff because it, you know, relies on reporting and that all, you know, but, but, uh, you know, at some point you might have verifiable data. Yeah, maybe in terms of spread it is getting worse, but I imagine for us, for our community, it's been bad for a while. It's bad. It's been common for us, for generations. And I feel like my journey, your journey, and our journey with sex is going to mirror the journey of our predecessors. So it's an ongoing struggle. And it also seems like if there was an easy fix, if there was a way out, We're still discovering it. There's a lot that we don't know about addictions. There's a lot we don't know about how the brain responds to these chemicals. And I think that we're part of a very exciting chapter in human history where we're in the early stages of understanding something that's incredibly complex and we're not close to a solution. Because if we understood this stuff, we would know a lot more about consciousness and the brain than we do now. We're on this journey of understanding, and I think we have a lot longer to go. So everybody participating in this journey, in this discussion, is part of this really long, really multi-generational movement to take care of ourselves and of the people who are going to come after us.

Yeah, I love that. That's— I love that. Thank you. Yeah. And, and a key to that too, for listeners is, is to make your story known and to keep the conversation going and let's put more light on it. Like let's get it more, let's lessen the stigma so that we can talk about it more. Um, and, and get the resources we need. I mean, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing is that there were no resources for me. Going through drug treatment and going through drug court, you know that they didn't understand anything about chemsex.

So, sorry, I think there's a helicopter.

Yeah. Yeah. So what have I? What have I not asked today, Alexander? Something I've missed. Something that you wish I would have.

I think the only thing that we talked about briefly before that we haven't touched on the call, on this call, was, um, is the country culture-specific differences between, you know, like, I'm American, but I live in Berlin now, and the whole 12-step thing just isn't very European, and it's certainly not In Berlin, Berlin's an overused city, Berlin's a drug town. And every gay city that I come from, every big city that had a big gay community that I lived in in the US had men who were active abusers and actively in the scene. And then they had the other side of men who were in recovery, into drug stuff. And there were these two sides, right? And nobody here really seems to use phrases like recovery and harm reduction. I think these are very American terms. But in a culture in which 12-step isn't as common or as prevalent, I find that a lot of my connections here in Berlin, without calling it that or realizing that, are kind of naturally doing harm reduction. Strategy, like they're not drinking until the weekend, or they only do this drug with this drug, or they don't do this drug with this drug. And they, and, um, in a culture in which you kind of have to figure it out for yourself, and you, there's an, there doesn't seem to be as much emphasis on 12-step. I think a lot of people sort of discover these individual ways Towards healthier living and survival. And I wish that was more normalized in the US. I wish America gave more space to people who aren't in the all-or-nothing approach that, you know, exists somewhere between, you know, there's a lot of people, I think there's a lot of people living in— You know, their life falling apart and being in recovery. And, and, and I wish that more people knew that lives were being lived manageably and healthily on that scale. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I'm glad you brought that up because I've done a lot of interviews this season, um, from, from, um, organizations in the US that promote harm reduction. Um, there's even in the, in Canada, there's even a group of users who meet by Zoom. I think it's once a month, twice a month, something to go over things like, how do I handle someone who goes into psychosis and, you know, safe, safe needle usage and, you know, things like that. Um, so it's out there. It's just, it's such a, a no-no in the US. And I think it's because It's, it goes against the 12 steps, which is the, you know, agreed upon Bible. You know, it's almost like Christianity. It's like what we've all agreed is what recovery is and has to be. And if you aren't following it, you aren't in, you aren't sober, right? You aren't in recovery. And it's, it, like you said, it's all or nothing. And I think it's dangerous for, it's very dangerous. They, I've had a lot of 12-steppers tell me that I'm making, I'm killing people with my message, but you're killing people with your message, you know, with this, you know, you're turning people off, especially, especially a queer man who already has all the stigma and all the shame and he has, you know, living with HIV, all that. And then he comes into a group where you have to do what we say or you're out or you're no good or you're defective, you know, all these words. That, that cause even more shame. And so they just don't go back. You know, if it, if it means, if it means doing a walk of shame in front of a group, uh, you know, in getting this new key tag, then again, right, because you've, you've used again, then you're just not going to go back for the most part.

I mean, how many of us were literally taken out of our families, our churches, our religious communities In which the rule was, believe us, get out. You know, stick to our rules, you'll get out. Indent gay men who are already low, already in a tough spot, back into that scheme, or at least a similar situation. Seems like it's like kicking someone when they're in their town. Like, you know, like I've had so many friends feel so defeated by 12-step, but, but, um, and won't go back. They won't go back because they wanted to be poppers and drink wine, and in that process they lost all their friends. They built all these friends in 12-step, they got kicked out of their friend group, and they're like, well, I've already lost those people once. I don't want to go back and lose people again. And so there's this Left out in the cold.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a sad situation, but I think hopefully going away slowly. You know, there's some, there's some light. I've talked to their, uh, Jason Parker, who's a porn star, will be on the podcast. Well, it'll, it'll, it'll air before this one. He's in 12 steps, but he's bringing a whole new type of philosophy to it, and I think is determined to change some of it. So there's some of it he sees that he likes, right? And some of it he doesn't like, the pauper's rule. Um, and so I think there's, there's a younger generation that could, that could change the direction of it, I hope.

You know, here in Berlin, there's a 12-step group where, because, because in the US with meth, it seems that a lot of groups were closed because it's meth and people talk about sex. And so They're closed groups and so they have different policies. It depends on where I live. A lot of the groups that I was a part of required active effort for sobriety in order to attend some of the meetings, especially to attend the ones that were about sex. And yet other groups are very social and they say you don't have to be sober or recovering. Just like, come by, make silver friends. I think that the more we pitch it as a social club with coffee for people who just want to find silver friends, and even for us, silver club dates, then, then that's the right step. And the more we make it a club of rules and expectations and requirements, the more it's going to hurt.

That's right. Yeah, because one of the big challenges of especially men who have been using for a long time, their whole social circle is revolved around chemsex, right?

Yeah.

And so when they have to let go of that part of themselves, they also let go of those friends. And then they're like, but I don't want to go to 12 steps. How do I meet sober men? Right? Like, where do I meet them? And how? And because so if the 12-step, the concept and the philosophy is so powerful in terms of This is a place I could go to meet sober friends, but with the price of also, you know, being, being turned away and exiled if I don't do what they think I should do, right? It's so def— it's so defeating when your chemsex friends accepted you no matter what the fuck you did. It didn't matter.

Yeah.

Right?

You know, there's like, there are sober— like, the great thing about this Right now, there are sober raves, sober faves. I mean, depending on the city, you know, where you live, there are sober gatherings, parties, sober nightlife. Like, we're in the sober curious movement right now. That feels like it's really— sober curious movement and the sober adjacent movement feels like it's blowing up completely independent of 12-step. And I feel like Or I wish that my hope is that groups are taking notice of that, that maybe want to be a little bit more like the sober rage happening down the street rather than, you know, what it is. I don't know, more than like institution. Like, I hope you hope.

Yeah, yeah, yes, me too, me too. Well, thank you for your voice in that change. I appreciate you. And one thing, um, we may, we may have to do another topic, but I'd love to dive in deeper. We just don't have time today on the experience you had with your harm reduction therapist, um, which, if you missed that, if you're listening, if you missed that, Alexander had a, a very positive experience with a harm reduction therapist. And that might be something that you could look for. They're out there. And they, it is a, to me, I would say, I'm imagining it's a very open, unconditional space wherein it's safe, where you're not going to get judged for using. In fact, you may plan a use, right? Which I do. There have been clients I have helped plan uses.

Yeah.

before, um, in the very beginning, on their way out of it. So a harm reduction therapist is— could be an option for you. And, um, it was very good. It was a very good experience for, for you, Alex, right?

Yes, very much so. And I'd be happy to talk about that anytime.

Great. Yeah. And you have your, your advice column. Um, is it ask— is the, the email askbeastly or something?

Yeah. So the email comes My, from my blog, my old nickname is Beastie, and that used to be a nickname on, like, I used to have a, I used to have a column in Advocate called Sexy Beast. And so sort of my digital moniker in media was, it was a nickname that followed me around for a while. And, um, and I still have an email account from, from that. Um, but ever since the first book, I've kind of stopped using my nickname because now I have a published name out there. And my editor was like, we need to condense identities and nobody's knowing my author by their nickname. You have to choose a nickname. And unfortunately, the email is still a holdover from the past, but right now, The very new advice coming out is Ask Alexander, although my editor recently proposed a new name. He said he was listening to some rock music and he said, what about Go Ask Alex?

Oh, sure. Yeah, I like that.

Maybe.

Yeah. So what kind of advice do you Ask or answer? What could we, if we have a question, what would be some questions we would ask you?

Sex, dating, and relationships.

Sex, dating, and relationships. Very light topics.

Very light topics. Well, you know, my whole writing career started from answering questions on my blog. I have a blog called Love Beastly, again, old me, and I still run it. And that blog is what came first. I was answering sex questions online, and then through that blog, columns, articles at various magazines, and then eventually got pieces in The Advocate out. But everything kind of started with like sex advice. So it's at the same time, it's the writing that I've been doing the most. Yeah.

Yeah. Nice. Nice. Well, much needed. Thank you. Thank you very much for today. I enjoyed this discussion quite a bit. I appreciate it. Um, yeah. So guys, hope you enjoyed. You may have to listen twice to this. It was chock-full of some really good information. Check out Alex's, um, we'll put the link to the article about chemsex. We'll also put the link to your, your, your blog and Well, where you can ask questions. We'll put all the stuff in the show notes so you can reach out and start following Alex. Okay, we will see you all next week.

Bye.