EP 2:29 Dating AfterMeth with Coach Danny

But if you don't have a strong value system, it's gonna be very difficult for you to know when and how to set boundaries. And then that's usually how you see people fall into toxic relationships and really unhealthy attachment styles and that kind of stuff.

The Aftermath Podcast is an outreach tool to help men who have sex with men break free from the addictive patterns associated with chemsex. Otherwise known as crystal meth or Tina. I'm your host, Dr. Dallas Bragg, a former crystal meth user, now recovery coach. Here you will find a repository of tools and resources intended to eradicate the epidemic that is plaguing our MSM population. Please note that the views expressed on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice. Also, we will be talking about drugs and sex, so if you feel triggered to use, Stop listening and contact your local emergency system and/or your support network. Let's go. All right, welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast. I'm your host, Dallas Bragg. Thank you for being here. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for supporting the podcast. We hit a record number of downloads in July 2025, and we are continuing to grow. We hit our 75th episode, so I'm really thinking about what we're going to do for our 100th episode. It's just very surreal for me to think about Um, like when I first started the podcast, I thought this would be a limited one-season series, and now here we are. Here we are, we're looking at, uh, episode 100 and we're going strong. So all of you all out there, I appreciate you listening, taking the time out. Very, very, very grateful that you're here. I want to remind you that there is a supplemental study guide that comes out with every episode. The link is in the show notes, or if you'd like to get it to your email, just go to drdallasbragg.com, go to blog and subscribe, and you will get the study guide right in your inbox. You wanna take a deeper dive into the subject, you can do that. It comes with journal prompts, reflective questions, and an actionable exercise and a summary of the podcast. So please jump on that. All right, let's get started here with my new friend I met on TikTok and have been watching on TikTok, uh, Coach Danny Morales. Can you tell us about yourself?

Hi, um, I'm gonna have to take some notes from you when it comes to a podcast introduction. It was great. Um, well, my name is Danny. Um, I am a dating and relationship coach, self-esteem coach for gay and bisexual men. Um, and so my focus is on helping men to build their self-confidence, gain a deeper understanding of self, um, how that self navigates in the dating world, how to date in a healthy way, and how to have healthy, sustainable relationships. So this is something that I've now been doing for— when it comes to dating and relationship coaching, I've been doing this for over 5 years now. But specifically in the LGBTQIA+ space, it's been a little over a year that I've been working with specifically gay and bi men. I've worked with many men over the years, but kind of switching into this specific, I guess you can call it a niche or just like target client base or just people that I feel like I relate the most to. It's been a little over a year and it's been absolutely incredible.

Yeah, great. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, so why bisexual men? Why, why do you clarify gay and bi?

So usually I just kind of like to say queer men, but everybody has their own You know, feelings around certain words. And so I want to be sensitive to obviously as many people as I can. I, because I focus— so initially when I first started, I had put LGBTQIA+— I was working with LGBTQIA+ community. That was how I placed— put it. I had a lot of lesbians who came to want to work with me. I had a lot of trans individuals who came to want to work with me. And it's not that I wanted to turn anybody away, but I had difficulty relating. And for me, relatability and authenticity is really big. So for me, it was one of those things where, all right, well, where do I feel the most, like, comfortable and the most authentic in sharing my experience and my knowledge and those kinds of things? And that was specifically with gay and bisexual men. So that's really the only reason why. And I'm bisexual myself. So, ah, okay.

Uh-huh. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. So can you tell us to We, on the podcast, we've actually never really addressed specifically bisexual men.

Okay.

There's a huge part of the audience who are bisexual. And then there's a lot of men who are bisexual when they use meth. And so when you're coming out of a meth addiction, you're questioning yourself. I guess you'd be the Q in the LGBTQ. Like you're questioning, am I bisexual? Or are men a fetish? And so have you kind of dealt with any of that? And if I'm, if I'm having that question, what were some steps I could take to kind of get to an answer? Or is there an answer?

Sure. So obviously for me, I think sexuality is on a spectrum. That's just what I've come to believe based on my research, what I know about myself, my experience, experience of men that I've worked with. Now obviously there, when I say spectrum, I mean some people identify as gay, some people identify as bisexual, some people identify as curious. Like there's, there's all different ranges, right?

Mm-hmm.

And I think that for myself as a bisexual individual, I will be 100% honest and say I, I have not specifically dealt with men who are coming out of addiction and trying to figure out their sexuality just because I, I don't feel like I have enough of a knowledge base to be able to direct and support in that specific circumstance or situation, which is why we have professionals such as yourself who help men in that specific area. But I think when it comes to bisexuality in general, there's a lot of misnomers and misconceptions. It's, it's, it's difficult to, to accept bisexuality from the individual themselves, but also just different communities, the heterosexual community and the gay community, right? Because it's kind of with the gay community, it's you haven't figured it out yet, you're using it as a mask, you haven't come out as gay yet, you're just exploring, you'll figure it out, it's a stepping stone. And there's a lot of invalidation that happens with that.

Mm-hmm.

Um, there's also a lot of, um, mistrust when it comes to bisexuality, because unfortunately what happens is a lot of DL guys or a lot of straight-presenting men will identify themselves as bisexual when they don't really know yet. So you will have a lot of people who hook up with men who are identifying as bisexual, and they haven't even fully figured out their bisexuality yet, and they're having really negative experiences with these guys.

Mm-hmm.

And so it kind of creates this narrative around bisexuality that we just, we just haven't figured it out, that we're selfish, those kinds of things. On the heterosexual side, women have difficulty accepting and understanding that their partner would want to sleep with another man, right? So there's also kind of like the societal aspect of all of that that's present. So when I'm working with somebody who is bisexual and they're trying to figure it out, for me, the biggest thing is Let's not put so much pressure on the actual title and the identity. Let's just figure out what feels right to you and go from there.

Yeah.

That's like step number one.

Yeah. I like that. I like that. 'Cause we, we get so tied up in labels anyway. Right. I mean, even back to what I deal with is so many men are, are stuck on, am I an addict or am I not an addict? You know, it doesn't matter, right? Like, if you use meth, you use meth. So what is— that's why I use the term meth user, right? Um, because you get hung up on what it's called and, and your identity gets wrapped around that. So I think that's kind of— seems like sort of the same thing.

Yeah.

Um, but I, I agree, and I, and I have been guilty of this, of poking fun of a young man who is effeminate, who comes out, who comes out as bisexual. And I have, I have been one of those who have poked fun to say, you're just not ready to say you're gay yet. Right. Um, and my son, so even for me, so I say I'm bisexual, but since I left my wife, I haven't been with any women.

Sure.

So my son pokes fun at me all the time. And he said, would you stop saying you're bisexual? You know, um, but it's very, it is very invalidating to someone, don't you think?

Um, sure, absolutely. I mean, I was with a woman for 13 years, so, and I came out to her, uh, 2 years into our relationship. Um, and I mean, we had, we broke up for a year so that I can explore my sexuality and then we got back together and we're together for another 10 years. Right. So, or 11 years, give or take. And the, the difficult part about that is that everybody just kind of assumes that you're heterosexual because you're in a—

Yeah.

Opposite sex relationship. So it can, it can be very confusing internally as somebody who identifies as bisexual. And then we broke up and I've been dating men ever since. I haven't been with a woman since. So similarly, I get that experience of, well, you haven't been with one, with a woman since. So at this point you're just gay. And it's like, no, no, I'm not. Because I am physically attracted to women and I could be sexually intimate with women and I would be totally fine, but I'm just happy in my relationship with my boyfriend that I've been with for 4 years. That's, that's kind of the beauty of bisexuality.

Mm-hmm. Why do you think we're so concerned about other people's sexuality?

I don't— I— because we got nothing better to do. Like, no, honestly, I think part of it has to do with our own experience with shame and, and that process, right? So for somebody, for example, a gay man who has to go through the process and their turmoil, turmoil of dealing with their sexuality and coming out and being criticized and judged and ostracized and all that stuff.

Mm-hmm.

When a person comes out as bisexual, I think that there's a very, um, personal and visceral experience that happens of like, you're taking the easy way out and I didn't, and therefore you are not sharing in the experience of what I experienced.

I see.

When in reality, I think that coming out as a bisexual individual is equally as difficult because we're still dealing with sexuality and confusion and, and those kinds of things, right? And this is triggering for some people, but what I'll tell people is, as a gay man, for example, when you came out, when you come out as a gay man, You come out as a gay man and people understand that, oh, this person likes men.

Right.

When you come out as bisexual, it's almost like this perpetual coming out process because you're constantly having to answer questions about it. Mm-hmm. Because everybody's very confused about it.

Ah, I see.

So it's like you're in this limbo state of like in the closet, out of the closet, answering questions that like, it's a lot. So we go through I think at its root, a similar experience is just different.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. And you mentioned, I think it seems like bisexual men are less— they're not trusted as much by gay men, right? There's a lack of trust. Why do you think that is?

I think, okay, the— don't hate me, people. Just kidding. So There's, I think there's a couple of reasons for it. I think first one is experiential, right? So some people will have situations with bisexual men that do not end favorably. And therefore what ends up happening is that people will attach negative experience to this particular type of individual. And I understand that, right? I don't wanna invalidate that because if you have a really negative experience with somebody like that, of course it's gonna stick with you and you're gonna have difficulty trusting somebody else who identifies as bisexual because you immediately go to, well, the last time I was with somebody who was bisexual, this happened to me, right?

Mm-hmm.

So there's that part of it. I think the other part of it is, as queer men, we, we have difficulty with, um, self-acceptance and self-value and self-worth and those kinds of things. So I think that there's always this underlying concern and threat That, that person is not enough. Like if a bisexual man is with a gay man, the gay man oftentimes feels like they are not enough because they don't have all the proper appendages that would satisfy the bisexual person. And they may leave and date a woman because you weren't enough. So it's kind of twofold.

I see. I see. It's interesting because my experience is the complete opposite.

Interesting.

You know, um, I've been exploring sexually, uh, and the, the bisexual men, well, these are men that actually they've said straight on the dating profile. Um, they say straight that for whatever reason, but then, you know, they're, they're bisexual obviously because they're with me. Um, but for, I find them easier. I found them, um, easier to work with because they're, they're more the ones I've— this is my experience. They've been very dependable in terms of when they say, I'm coming over on Wednesday at 7, they show up. Like, like, I don't feel like they're looking for the next best thing until then.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and, um, and I just find it like, I don't know, the experience is safer to me. for some reason, like, it's just, they're not— there's just this, I just feel like I trust— there's a, there's an element of trust there that I can't— I don't find often with, with gay men. So I don't, I don't know. That's just my experience. Did you hear that, gentlemen?

Bisexual men are dependable.

Yeah, I mean, for me, they have been.

Sure. I think I think there are, there's layers to this, right? I think if we were to try to oversimplify this, it wouldn't do justice to subjective experiences. But generally speaking, if we really kind of look at it from a dating context, bisexual men who have the opportunity to, you know, date women and men oftentimes in their younger years will date women. Why is that? Because of heteronormativity and the environments and like that kind of stuff. So it feels safer for them. But what that also means is most of the time we have more experience with dating because we start earlier in a more authentic way, right? So, and what I mean by authentic, I mean in the sense that like we are attracted to both men and women. So when we're in a relationship with a woman, there's a level of authenticity to that.

Mm-hmm.

Whereas for gay men, if you do date in your early years, it does not feel aligned or authentic because being with a woman just doesn't feel right. But there is a societal pressure that is there that says you cannot date a man in high school because you'd be made fun of, you'd be ostracized, you'd be criticized. So most gay men don't really start to understand the fundamentals of relationships and dating until they're in their 20s, mid-20s, early 30s, depending on when somebody comes out. So I think that generally speaking, there's a—

Mm-hmm.

there's more of an understanding of how to navigate relationships and show up in that kind of a way, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Yes, it does. It does.

Yeah.

So I think that, I think for you listeners, the big thing I want you to take away from this is you're really, you're causing yourself a lot of suffering by continuing to ask, am I bisexual or am I not bisexual? Especially if you're living a straight life and you, you were with men during your meth use. Just drop the question like you're saying, Danny, right? And just experiment with what feels comfortable and what turns you on, right? And I'm guessing probably too, if you watch porn, maybe what kind of porn you watch. You know, I don't know. I mean, there could be ways of determining this. It just, just drop the label and just, yeah, it's all a spectrum, right?

Mm-hmm.

You know, I've met, there was, I've met a couple of men who are identified as straight, but they say being with a man is a fetish, just like feet, piss, you know, like it's a fetish for them. It's not, they don't, they don't, they call themselves straight, but being with a man is just a taboo fetish, like meeting out in the meeting in public or something like that. You know? So that was an interesting one for me, um, to digest as well. But yeah.

I feel like that's an interesting one for me to digest as well. Um, yeah. I'm kind of, I'm, I'm chewing on it a little bit right now.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

As you brought it up, because everything experientially and, and research and from a psychological component, all that stuff is going off in my head. Like, that's an interesting one.

Yeah.

Yeah. Which I don't wanna invalidate in any way because it is very possible that that is a fetish for them and that's true for them. And who am I to say like, No, you're gay. Like, I would literally be perpetuating the same exact thing that I say not to do. So it's, it's, uh, yeah, I need to digest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So part of what you mentioned, the dating coach, um, relationship and dating coach, but self-esteem is big. Um, I was looking over your TikTok. Um, your, your TikTok is big and good and great, by the way, if you're not following Um, Coach Danny, it's Coach Danny Morales, uh, gay and bi love coach. So self-esteem, what do you think? How would you define self-esteem for us? And how would we know where we, where we are on that spectrum of self-esteem?

That's a really good question. Um, so I would say in the simplest of terms, Self-esteem is the voice you hear when the room is silenced.

Okay.

Which is your own and your ability to sit with self and be with self and be content and be happy and be proud and to value yourself. Right. And I think that usually a good indication of somebody who has a healthy self-esteem is They have a very strong set of values that they go by, right? And every value is different depending on the individual. And they utilize that value system to create boundaries, to allow themselves to navigate dating or the world in a healthy way. They don't allow for bullshit. And even if they do, it's more so from an empathetic, compassionate approach as opposed to an attached approach, if that makes sense. So I think there's, there's many different ways to define self-esteem, but I think it's somebody recognizing their own value and being able to hold firm to that.

Yeah. Okay. So if I'm listening is when I'm by myself, what am I saying to myself? What are the voices in my head? Saying about me. And then if you're, if you are alone on a Friday night and you can't stand it, right? And you, you're getting on your phone or you're scrolling Grindr or you're trying to avoid being with yourself, that's a good indication that your self-esteem is—

Exactly.

Right?

Exactly.

Yeah. I mean, that was, this was me before my meth, my meth use is I could not be By myself, right? I just couldn't just, it's, it was the FOMO, there's FOMO, right? And we've talked about FOMO, um, on, in the newsletters in terms of what FOMO really is. You know, I don't think you're, yeah, I don't think you're afraid of missing out on the party. I think you're afraid of being by yourself. You're afraid of missing out on the validation, on the, you know, on being reminded that you, that people like you. Is that right?

100%. Correct.

Um, and then your values. So I think if you're listening, you can ask yourself, if somebody asks you right now, what are your values? And you can't answer that, maybe take some time to determine what, what are my values? What do I value?

Absolutely.

Right.

And there, there are a lot of times when I'm working with somebody and I'll ask that question and they won't even know where to start. And so usually the exercise that I'll give them is I'll say, literally just go on Google and type up values, like type up values and see what comes up and what comes up. If there is anything that you identify or say, oh, that resonates, put it on a list for yourself. And that's the first step in being able to, to identify what your value system is. That's the easiest step to begin with, right? Because then you kind of want to get into, well, what does trust mean to me, right? What does loyalty mean to me? What does joy mean to me? Like those kinds of things. And that can be a little bit more of an involved process, right? Because that does take some action, that does take some reflection, that does take some work if it's something that you've been detached from for quite some time. quite a while, but it's a good start.

Yeah, I mean, I think, like you said, in terms of creating boundaries too, is when we don't have boundaries, the suffering we go through and the people pleasing and being in places we don't want to be and being with people we don't want to be with. And, you know, it's because if you create a list of values, you can have, you can be asking yourself constantly, like for me, I like 3 values that They're just easy, right? Like honesty, empathy, and love are my 3 values. So I ask myself, is this honest? Is this empathetic? Is this loving? Like before, you know, when I'm looking at a text, I'm looking at a reaction. When I'm looking at this person, you know, is this, does this person, do they exude those 3? And am I naturally in those? That's the thing too. When you're with somebody and you're naturally reacting from outside your values, that could be an indication that there's a boundary that's not being recognized.

Is that right? Yes, correct. And I think that, again, that directly correlates with self-esteem, like we talked about. So if you're willing to— here's usually what I will tell people. Your core value system That is not something that you should ever bend and flex on unless that core value system is harmful to others. And then we have to reevaluate your core value system because it's not a very good system to begin with, but it's not something you should bend and flex on. Every relationship is going to require some form of compromise or flexing and bending because you have 2 individuals that are coming together and trying to build something together. So you're going to have 2 different ideologies, 2 different perspectives, 2 different, right, ways of being. So there is going to be some bending and flexing, but if you don't have a strong value system, it's gonna be very difficult for you to know when and how to set boundaries. And then that's usually how you see people fall into toxic relationships and really unhealthy attachment styles and that kind of stuff.

Hmm. So, and you mentioned bringing an empathetic approach. Instead of an attached approach versus an attached approach. Could you tell us how, how would we know if we're coming at it from either one of these?

So I think an empathetic approach is saying, let me try to put myself in this person's shoes and understand where they're coming from, but recognize that I don't want to get involved in a way that would be detrimental to self, if that makes sense.

I see.

An attached approach is I can fix this person.

Ah.

And then you become very much involved and it becomes an intertwined process. So there's a difference there.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think from my attachment from the past, I would be saying, I'm lucky that they're, they're paying me, they're, I'm lucky that they, they like me, right? Like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I feel lucky that they have an interest in me. So I'm going to look past Yeah. I'm going to clear my values out of the way and look past everything just to keep them.

Sure.

You see that? Sure.

Absolutely. I see that a lot. And I think a lot of that has to do with just generally speaking, the, the experience that we go through. Right. So the being in the closet for years, the invalidation that we go through, even with ourselves. So growing up in a heteronormative environment, feeling like there's something wrong with us. Self-sabotaging ourselves in many ways, and then just desperately wanting acceptance and love and validation. So, you know, it's— I think it's one of the strongest forces out there is the desire for love and to be seen and to be understood. So if we don't feel like we have that, a lot of people are gonna sacrifice a lot of their own Stuff to get that from somebody, whether it be healthy or unhealthy.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's important for, for us to remember is it's okay to want to be loved. It's okay to want to be seen and heard, but it's the motivation behind the methods you're getting that. Yes. Right. It's important.

Correct.

Yeah.

Correct.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, a big question that I get often is how will I know when I'm ready to date?

Hmm.

Um, and you don't have to know about addiction really to know this is that someone coming out of a big trauma, you know, we could just replace meth addiction with somebody that's coming out of a big trauma has been, you know, their exposure to men has been transactional. You know, when you're in the chemsex scene, it's very transactional, very little intimacy, uh, very taboo, very kinky, you know, very piggy, all that stuff. Um, so You're, you're, you're coming out of that and now you're trying to date and have sober sex, but how do I know when I'm ready to date? I guess that's it.

That's a really great question.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, the simplest answer would be when you, when at your core, you know, you want something different. I think that that's number one.

Yeah.

Um, number two, I would say when you have spent enough time with yourself that you are at peace with your own company. I think that's another one. I think another thing to keep in mind here is, and I'm a strong believer, and we come to know ourselves through our interactions with other people. Sometimes we may still have things that we need to work through that we have not worked through. And let's just say the right person shows up at your doorstep. Are you going to say, oh, well, like, I haven't dealt with that thing that happened with me in 1993 yet. So like, I'm going to come back to you a little bit later.

Mm-hmm.

In my opinion, the answer is no. Because there's an opportunity that's being presented here. It's just your willingness to continue that journey of self-reflection and unpacking while also allowing yourself the ability to connect with this person. And I know that that can be a little bit complicated because sometimes having to deal with this unlocks your ability to be more vulnerable and more trustworthy and that kind of stuff. But if you connect with somebody who holds space for you, And who is there for you and who is supportive of that journey, that can actually be an even bigger blessing than you having to do it on your own. Right? So I think it's really about taking a step back and saying, am I willing to do the work and not put all the work on somebody else? That's really the big thing. Because if you get into a relationship and you stop doing the work on yourself and you just dump on that other person, you're not ready.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And come into it with the fact that they're, they're saving me, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like, because I, I've, I've had some men come to me and find out what I do and that I'm meth-free and they cling to me because, you know, they're actually having issues with their addiction and they think, they think dating somebody like me is going to save them. Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm not interested in that whatsoever. You know, you know, like I'll take you on as a client, but I'm not here to, to work with you in that capacity in a relationship. That's just not what I'm ready to do.

So the difference between approaching it empathetically and in an attached way.

Yeah.

So you can approach it empathetically because you've been there, you've done that, and you know that you have the skillset and the knowledge to get them where they want to be, but you're not trying to get Intertwined in that because that's your boundary.

That's right. That's right. Yeah. Thank you for that. Illustrating that. It was nice. Okay. So what are some tips you have for us in terms of dating? Do's, maybe some dating do's and don'ts. I see how to date successfully in the gay community is one of your, one of your, your reels here. Um, what are we doing? What are we doing right? And what are we doing wrong as a community?

Ooh, that's a loaded question. What are we doing right and what are we doing wrong? So I think I'll speak to the more subjective individual level because I think to kind of generalize it as a community would be not fair to the subjective experience. I think if we want to talk about the community, the things that I think we're doing right, generally speaking, I do think that we We do show up for each other when it counts, right? I think that that's a very big thing. I think, yes, for all the drama and the gossip and the, that kind of stuff, I think every community has that, right?

Okay.

Um, I think when it comes to, there, there is actually a deep desire to, to navigate interpersonal relationships and relationships in general in a healthy way. I see it every day. So that obviously gives me some hope where there are a lot of people out there who kind of want to own themselves and connect with people in a healthier way. Fantastic. I think what we're doing wrong in some ways, I think that we don't allow ourselves to be vulnerable in a lot of ways, unfortunately. And I think that's kind of the big Miss here. And that results in a lot of addictive patterns. So that results in a lot of drinking, that results in drug use, that results in overuse of pornography, in overhypersexualization, like that kind of stuff. When it comes to like an individual level of like how to date successfully in the gay community, I think the first thing here is, again, an understanding of self. And kind of forming that baseline of what your value system is. Because if you don't have a value system, you're kind of traveling without a compass, in my opinion.

Yeah.

So that's the first thing. I think the second thing here is a willingness to kind of wave the white flag and be vulnerable in certain situations.

Okay.

So how do we do that? Well, you can start with friends and family, people that you're already comfortable with, and have these kind of micro vulnerabilities where you share things with people and build that self-confidence so that you can actually put yourself out there in a good way. I think the third thing is your mindset. I think a lot of the times we will look at a, a quote-unquote failed relationship or dating experience as a rejection, when in reality it's just a redirection. You know, that person is not the right person for you, obviously, which is why it's not working.

Right.

So there's the mindset piece to it. So I would say those are probably the 3 primary things that I like to tell people initially. I think the don'ts, sometimes it's easier to list the don'ts than the dos, right? So I like to identify the red flags as opposed to the green flags.

Yeah.

Self-criticize as opposed to self-praise. I think the don'ts are allowing yourself to remain in a situation that is not meant for you. longer than you should. Um, and I think intrinsically, I think in our gut, we know, we just try to ignore it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Um, and hope for the best. So there's even beauty in that, that there's hope that things will get better, but it's just not the right approach in certain situations. I think the don'ts is, you know, wearing too many masks. Take the mask off. So for example, an individual that says, well, I'm looking for a monogamous relationship when really they're looking for an open relationship, like own your truth.

Right.

Like, own your truth. Just be honest about it. And things will line up the way they're supposed to instead of you constantly fighting the current. Like, just be honest about it. Don'ts, I would say, obviously, and this is just kind of my rule of thumb when it comes to dating more seriously, is objectifying people. Like, if we continue to objectify people, if you are looking to date more seriously to actually get into a long-term relationship, That does not allow you to connect on a deeper level. And there needs to be some of that because in order to really grow intimacy, that takes time. That takes time. That takes getting to know somebody that takes an investment. Right. So I'll just say those. Okay. To start.

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So the, I just want to review the top 3 that Have a value system, know what your values are. So I'm thinking if these are my values and I begin to meet somebody and get to know them, I can measure them against— and not that you're measuring them up.

Sure, sure.

But you're assessing where you're assessing where they are according to your value system, right? And am I holding on to that value system while I'm with them? Right. Vulnerability. I like that you said start with friends and family, start with people that are more, there's less, it's a calculated risk, right? To share more vulnerably. So speaking of, let me go to the third one and I'll come back. Mindset. Reject is, rejection is a redirection. I like that. So this reminds me of relapse, right?

Yeah.

Like when we, when, when we relapse, it's more of an iteration of what you're doing. Right? It's, it's, it's learning to say, okay, this is what happened. This is how I'm going to alter this. This is how I'm going to show up differently next time. When you, when you're rejected, which, you know, rejection was a big thing for me early on too. I mean, it has been, still is to some degree, but seeing that as seeing dating as experimenting, experimentation, right? Like I'm going, I've learned what I want. I learned what I don't want. I learned what, what.

Mm-hmm.

And what happened in this relationship, it wasn't a rejection. It was a redirection. Like you said, that's great. That's great. And speaking of vulnerability, I have a lot of questions too about, and I don't know if you've, if this is something you can answer or not, or want to answer. When do I divulge in the dating conversation, 2 things. Do I divulge my past use, meth use? Is that something, at what time would that be appropriate? And also my HIV status.

Sure. I guess the best answer for, for me would be honesty is the best policy.

Okay.

I think, and I say this because I have had clients who are HIV positive and have not divulged that information, and then 6 months into the relationship, It comes up and then the person that they're dating feels like they were withholding information or lying. So what else are you withholding? Right.

Right.

And there's an argument to be had on both ends, right, where a person says, well, if I'm taking care of myself and I'm, and I'm on medication, I'm undetectable, then why should I tell that person? You know, that's Not fair to me. But what I think that really speaks to is that fear of rejection, right? That fear of judgment, the fear of criticism because of that status. Whereas on the other end, the person says, well, I have a right to know so that I can make a decision for myself whether that is something that I'm comfortable navigating or not. So even when it comes to, for example, drug use, I think for me, The best policy is honesty upfront. I know that my really good friend who's a psychotherapist, um, and he's been in recovery for years from alcohol addiction, his rule of thumb is I tell people upfront that I'm a recovering addict. And, you know, it may make some people uncomfortable. It may not. But the people that are not uncomfortable with it, those are the people that I lean into more because there's a better foundation of understanding there. And I feel more comfortable navigating a relationship with that person. So really, he utilizes it as like a filtration system for himself.

Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah.

So instead of it being like, oh, by me saying this, I'm going to be judged. Well, I'm actually utilizing this to see who would understand me better and who I would feel most comfortable connecting with. So you kind of take that power back by doing that. So all that to say, honesty is the best policy. I would say just be upfront about it.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Thank you.

Yeah.

Um, out of your, your don'ts, one thing that I wanted to mention is this staying in a situation too long. Mm-hmm. Right. And there's a question that I, I, I picked up in some of my coaching training that I've used on myself, and I wanna just run it by you, see what you think. But in, in getting into a relationship, especially if you have a little bit of doubt, right? And the question is, what will you find out a year from now that you know already, that you already know? Yeah. What will you, what will you, what will you find out a year from now that you already know?

Mm-hmm.

And I asked myself that the, the last, I don't know if it was a relationship or not. It was like 2 months. You know, I, I asked myself that and immediately it was like, he's too young. You know, he's, he's too young. I knew this already, right? This is something that I knew, but I just kept gaslighting myself about.

Hmm.

Um, and, you know, I still, even I asked that myself, that coaching question, I coached myself, I realized that I still didn't listen. And then it, you know, and Ended in this burning, burning crash of heartache. Um, but yeah, I think that's, to me, that's been such a powerful question for me to ask is, what do you already know? I mean, what do you already know? You're going to find out in a year. Why drag it on? You know it already. Follow it. And if you don't have boundaries, if you don't have values, you know, if you don't have self-esteem, then I think it's much easier to, to not listen to yourself in those situations. So I really like what you're saying here.

I think it's important to point out what you just said, which is the, the coaching yourself and asking yourself the question. Because I think that that's where people, that's the step people don't get to. So a lot of people will feel and say something doesn't feel right, but I'll just keep going with it instead of taking time and space with self to say, why does this not feel right? Like what? What is going on here? And that to me is usually an indication of somebody who is working on self, who does have that self-esteem for them to step back and self-analyze and say, hold on a minute, is this an alarm bell that is going off because it is my parasympathetic system saying run?

Yeah.

Right. And if that is the case, Is it because it's attached to a specific trauma that I have not dealt with and therefore this is a me thing and not a them thing? Or is this actually a them thing that is making me uncomfortable because it does not align with my core values? That's, that's the important piece because the instinct and the gut's going to be there. It's deciphering it and what it actually means.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So In terms of, I'm making this about me today, but that's okay. Uh, but in terms of this same guy, he, I guess it was 3 months or 4 months. I don't remember. Anyway, immediately he started talking about non-monogamy, right?

Okay.

Like it was very important to him. He, he had some, some bucket list things he needed to, to get out of his system. He doesn't believe in just being in with one person and all that kind of stuff. I immediately went off the rails on that, you know, and I started shaming myself for not being a progressive gay, you know, for, for wanting monogamy.

Mm-hmm.

And I asked myself this question toward the— this was toward the end. And I was like, what? Okay, then what are you, what are you, what are you going to find out a year from now if you open this relationship up that you know now? And the answer came back to me. You don't have a problem with non-monogamy. Your system has a problem with non-monogamy with him specifically. You don't trust him.

That's a huge realization.

Yes. This was hours of walking in the woods of me just asking, just asking, please, like my system. I was always, I was just dysregulated the entire time. And I just kept putting it on me and gaslighting me when all along it was my system saying, alert, alert, you cannot trust this person. And so I just wanted to share that too, to say, thank you. Take some time, right? Take some time. Like you said, coach yourself, reflect, take a walk, really, really try to see beyond the superficial, right? And see what's really happening.

Yes. Walks are huge. Honestly, I think it's, I think it's a, it's one of the best things that you can do for yourself to regulate your system and to come back to self because number one, getting out into nature and removing yourself from all the stimulus and it just being you and being able to move your body to help you get back into your body. Incredible. I do 2-mile walks every single morning and that like just helps me come back to self instead of being like up in the ethos.

Yes. Agreed. Agreed. You're, if you're ruminating or if you're dreading the future or whatever, give your subconscious something to do.

Yep.

That's me, right? And I just start walking and I'll hug the tree. You know, that day I was hugging the trees and I was crying, screaming and crying because I knew there was something I was missing here. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I know you talk about non-monogamy a lot. Mm-hmm. Um, and is there any, so I, I guess my question around that is how do you coach a couple to know, is, are we ready to open the relationship? Should we open the relationship and when should we not open the relationship?

Sure. Um, so I guess I should probably preface this by saying I am a monogamous person, so I've always been in monogamous relationships.

Okay.

Um, and that is just what Feels right for me and my body. That is where I am able to express myself the best. That is where I'm able to really just kind of let loose and, and be me. I would like to consider myself a pretty mellow, grounded, trusting person. I know that if I was in an open relationship, it would probably Mm-hmm. Dysregulate me, right? Like, I'd be like, oh my God, like, what's going on? And I know this about myself. So, but that is not to say that when it comes to open relationships that they are fundamentally wrong. I think that relationships inherently are subjective. And if you have 2 consenting adults in a relationship who want to explore together for the sake of curiosity, Mm-hmm. Go for it. Like, that's great. Key things that are important here, communication, trust, generally speaking, a strong foundation in the relationship. That's really, really important. So usually when I have a couple that comes to me and says, hey, we're considering opening the relationship, like, how do we do this? The first question that I'll say is, have you guys taken a relationship health check? Like, have you checked in with one another to see where you're at in the relationship? And if you are actually working through conflict in a healthy way, if you are communicating transparently and authentically, If there is that kind of that strong physical intimacy and bond between the two of you guys, because that's really important to start. I think when couples open a relationship because they're trying to fix something, yeah, it never works. Yeah, it never works. And if it does work, it's a miracle because something had to have shifted within the relationship for them to say, oh, we need to focus on this first before This. But if you're having issues trusting your partner, if you feel like your partner is not communicating, if you part— if you feel like your partner is not spending enough time with you, and then you say, well, let's open the relationship because I need some validation. When you see your partner on the apps looking for people to hook up with, it's going to royally piss you off because you're going to say, hold on, so you have time for this, but you don't have time for me? And it's just—

Yeah.

It snowballs. Right.

Yeah.

So I would say, you know, if you're gonna open the relationship, you gotta make sure the relationship is in a strong, healthy place before doing that. And if you choose to not open the relationship, great. That's also a great option as well. You don't have to feel pressured into opening the relationship because a lot of people are doing it. No, a lot of people are also in monogamous relationships.

Yeah. Yeah. It just seems like we don't see them as much. Right. And I guess it's because if you're on the apps, you're going to see Couples who are open because they're on the apps. Mm-hmm. Right. But I think, I think part of us thinks that that's, that's a, that's the segment that, that is the population that we see on Grindr. Mm-hmm. When really it's not, you know, if you're in a monogamous relationship, why the hell would you be on Grindr?

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, and you bring up a really good point because, and this is what I talk to about, talk to my clients. about, which is if you're on a dating app and you're finding it difficult to, to connect with people, there's an accountability piece here too. So as you said, if somebody is in a monogamous relationship, they're not gonna be on the dating apps. They're not gonna be, you know, on Grindr. They're not gonna be on Scruff and all these different apps, right? The people that are monogamous oriented and are single are gonna be on the apps. Looking for somebody, preferably a more serious dating app and not a hookup app if they're looking for a serious relationship.

Right.

But you have to make sure that you're also asking the right questions. And I think a lot of people shy away from maybe more direct upfront questions in the beginning because they don't wanna be seen as too much or overbearing or aggressive or whatever the case may be. Mm-hmm. And then you connect with somebody for 2 months and then the question comes up and it's like, oh, well, I'm open to an open relationship. And it's like, what the? Damn it, you know. So for me, it's make sure you're asking some of the right questions up front.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of the questions— yeah, you're right. I mean, you ask a lot of questions. Sometimes it's like you're so insecure and you're moving too— you're moving too fast and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But if you're serious about dating, you don't care about the questions, right? Right. If somebody tells you you're moving too fast, that's because they don't— they're not ready for what you are ready for. Right.

Well, that's why I tell people then maybe you don't bring a Toyota Corolla to a racetrack. So, right, right. So if I'm moving too fast for you, it's cuz I have the right vehicle on this right racetrack.

That's right. Right. Yeah, that's true. Um, is there anything you can say to, I, I see a lot of couples, a lot of couples and, and this is, goes on in the straight world too, but I think it's maybe more, again, maybe it's just what I'm seeing. But they, these 2 guys come together and they just hit it off like fireworks, right? Like the best, the date lasts 10 hours or, you know, it's like they've met their soulmate and it's just so like, and then they just end up together so quickly, you know, then they're, they get on Facebook and they post, you know, I'm in a relationship, you know, now it's like, wait a minute, 2 weeks ago you were, you know, that kind of thing. So. Is there something we could look for? Like if, if it is fireworks at first, how do we not jump in? And is, is that an indication that it's going to fizzle out?

That's a really good question. So we have a joke about this in the community, as you know, that's called lesbian speed.

Oh, right, right. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, uh, but it's There's a difference between infatuation and love, right?

Yeah.

Love is slow growing. It's consistent. Um, it's understanding, it's empathetic. It's, it's, it's all those things. And oftentimes when you connect with somebody and all the sparks go off and all the bells go off and your entire world gets flipped upside down. More often than not, that is infatuation because there is something about that person that is filling some space for you or some void for you. And it's exciting and there's mystery around it. And there's this, this just attachment that happens because the hope is fulfilled. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Oftentimes relationships that start off that intensely, because what infatuation is, it's, it's intense, it's fast, it's chaotic. It's kind of like a roller coaster. They fizzle out because once the mystery wears off and once that dopamine kind of levels out again, then what you have in front of you is just another human being with their faults and their belief systems and all that stuff.

Mm-hmm.

And because you had such an intense experience in the beginning, it's almost like, and the way that I like to describe it is like going on vacation to a part of the world that you've never been to and having that like euphoric experience and then coming back to work.

Yeah.

And you're like, ah, damn it, just take me back there. Um, so usually what I'll tell people is if you had that really explosive connection in the beginning, be very cognizant of taking your time with it. Take your time with it. Allow yourself to regulate yourself in that situation. Because if you're able to regulate yourself and that person still sticks with you through that process, it's a good match.

I like that. I like that. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for that. Well, let's talk about real quick your coaching. Sure. Um, I'm going to, for those who are watching, I'm just going to put your website up on the screen, um, just so we can take a, a look at it. Very, very well done, by the way.

Thank you. I built it myself.

Oh, nice. Are you for hire?

It was— I would love to say yes. Um, so remember empathy versus attachment. Um, yeah, it was— it took me quite some time and a lot of frustration to figure out because I have not a tech person, so this really challenged me.

I like it. So Transform Your Dating Life, learn how to navigate dating as a gay or bisexual man in a healthy, sustainable, lasting way. So you have 3, it looks like, um, how Danny can help you. There's 3 ways here, private coaching, group coaching, online courses. Um, and then your 3-step method. Identification, discovery, and results. Can you, can you talk to us a little bit about what can we expect if we come to you for coaching? Yeah.

So usually the way that the process goes, and I, I like to let people know on my social media, like I usually will do a 20-minute discovery call so we can sit down, we have conversation, we identify what the primary issue is. We create a plan moving forward and then we execute that plan. So that plan may look like, okay, you really want to find the partner of your dreams.

Mm-hmm.

Where are you at with yourself? And, you know, if we identify that there's some self-esteem work that has to happen there, and that, that's kind of the first step that we take and we start to work on that and build up to the dating and the relationships and all that stuff. So it starts with a 20-minute discovery call. We assess where you're at, we identify what the plan is moving forward, and then usually I will recommend coaching sessions. And we go from there. Every person is different. So some person— people may need longer coaching than others. That's just kind of the, the way it goes. And my experience, I have found that true change happens after— well, not after, but is it's— you have a higher chance of success when you go through a coaching process for 3 months or 6 months, right?

Yeah.

I think like if you try to do coaching for a month, Yeah. You may get quick— it's kind of like infatuation. It feels great and then it kind of like dies out. Like you gotta stick through the process. So that's usually what I'll identify, what I will suggest. I do do group coaching. It's every, usually like every 4, 5 months depending on how big the groups are.

Okay.

And what I've actually started to do is I've moved into more of a, a, instead of à la carte type of structure, it's 4 months or 6 months of coaching. Those are the 2 options that I have for people who are serious about coaching and wanting to date, um, more seriously. So obviously you can connect with me on my social media. You can connect with me on the website. Um, and I'm always open and happy to have a conversation about what people—

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would think group, group coaching probably has a lot of benefit in terms of talking about Experiences, dating experiences, and, and, you know, being with like-minded people.

Sure. I mean, the beauty of it is you build a community.

Yeah.

You're kind of striving for the same thing. And there have been some instances where people have connected through the group, right?

So that's what I was gonna— that's what I was gonna ask.

Kind of works well. Yeah. Yeah.

And you have a podcast, Deep Penetration.

I like puns. So, uh, yes, the Deep Penetration Podcast. Uh, I have, I think, over 100 episodes at this point.

Nice.

Um, and which you're coming up on, so congratulations. That's a big milestone.

Yeah, thank you.

Um, so yes, it's, I talk about all of these things on the podcast. I have a YouTube channel, um, where I talk about these things as well. So I mean, I'm kind of all over the place.

Yeah, no, it's great. It's great. Yeah, you're doing a lot of good, good stuff. We need it. We need help. We need help.

Sure.

We really do. And when I say we, I mean me. I need help too.

Me too. I go to therapy. So yeah, I think there's this kind of common misconception that if you're a coach or a therapist, you have it all figured out. No, we all have our own coaches and therapists too.

So yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, dating, I think dating and sex is kind of the last frontier, not the last frontier, but I guess the next frontier for me that I haven't really touched on and I'm trying to figure out, it just figure out the, it's such a world of its own, but also, also I'm really being cognizant about the story that I'm putting on it. Right. Like I just hear people say dating is hard.

Yes.

You know, dating in Charlotte is hard or dating, you know, it's like, stop saying that, you know? And so I've caught myself saying, uh, not complaining about dating, not complaining about gay men and, you know, that kind of thing, but just saying, I'm in, I'm learning every day, you know, just something like that to try to not, try to not make a story and a narrative around dating that it's difficult. I don't think it has. I don't think it has to be. It sounds like based on what you're saying, it can be fun. It can be a fun learning experience if you frame it that way.

I think dating is a self-development mirror. So if you approach it from the lens of this is a journey that I'm going on to develop myself as a person. Then the onus is on you. The, the, the power is with you because you're able to take these circumstances and these situations and learn from them. And I know that that is easier said than done, trust me. But that's why there are coaches who help you through that process.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. Good. Well, Daniel, did I miss any— or Danny, did I miss anything? Did I— was there a question I should have asked that you wish we had No, not at all.

I think it was fantastic. I love the conversation.

Good, good. I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that. And to you at home, I hope that, or wherever you are, driving, at the gym, wherever you are, walking, hopefully. I hope, I hope that you enjoyed the conversation as well. If you have any questions, you send them right to Danny. We're going to put all of his contact information in the show notes. Go and follow him. Go and listen to his podcast. It looks like you have the podcasts are like short digestible Podcast, 17 to 20 minutes.

Yeah, usually about 15, 20 minutes, give or take.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is great too. I, I really, I, I like those kinds of podcasts as well. Um, yeah. And if, and join in the conversation too. Uh, be sure that you can, you can comment on YouTube, you can comment on Spotify. Um, you can watch us on Spotify or YouTube as well. So like to hear from you. If you have any questions, ask.

All right.

Absolutely. Thank you everyone. And, uh, we'll see you next week.

Awesome. Thank you for having me on.