EP 3:35 Dallas Interviews His Kids AfterMeth
Dallas Bragg marks 50 years and eight years sober by interviewing his adult children, Liliana and Jonah, about his meth addiction, homelessness, and jail time. They discuss how his kids became his anchors, his permissive parenting style with no curfews, and what helped rebuild trust through honesty and open communication.
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But this is what's best. Like, I have to be true to myself. And one of these days they're going to understand that. Um, and it, and it did come true. You did. So after I came out and after all of that, the divorce and everything, the 3 of us began to get closer and closer. And I think when meth came along, yeah, it put a spin on it. But I think that made it a little easier for us to come back. Chemsex, sexualized drug use among men who have sex with men, typically involving methamphetamine, mephedrone, and GHB, among others. Chemsex misuse is a worldwide epidemic that needs attention, dialogue, and hope for those lost in it, which is the purpose of the Aftermath Podcast. Please note the views expressed by the host and guests on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice, and the content around sex and drug use can be triggering. All right, welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast and a very special episode this week. This week I celebrate 8 years Since I've been in meth recovery and my 50th birthday all in one week. My 50th birthday is August 5th. And it was about 8 years ago, 2018, August 7th, I believe, August 7th, that these 2 people on here on the podcast with me today, who are my children directly from my loins.
Yay! What an honor.
Yep. Liliana and Jonah.
And Dr. Jonas Bragg.
No, that's just—
Not yet.
He's changed his name to Jonas for some odd reason today.
Well, that's because I signed in with Google and that's my Google name. Don't even worry about it.
Okay, well, we could probably change it in the editing. Um, okay. Yeah, so, uh, but yeah, it was 8 years ago. That these two picked me up from jail. I'm sure you've probably heard the story, or if you listen to episode number two in this podcast, I was homeless at the time, and I meant to try to find the picture. So we took a picture that day and put it on the screen. But and maybe I can still do that. But we Lily Dorrit was driving, of course, and we went to the park. And had a talk. And, um, that was the day that I just decided, like, I have to, I have to put meth behind and I have to put these 2 first because they needed a parent at the time. And so for the first night or 2, maybe 2 nights, I don't remember. I don't remember now. Um, you 2 snuck me into your mom's apartment. She wasn't there.
It wasn't much sneaking.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, she wasn't there. She didn't, she, she may not know still.
Hopefully Stephanie, you're not watching this.
Hey, Mom. Um, yeah, maybe nothing she could do about it now. Um, but I was able to, to sleep there for a couple nights and then rode the bus back to, to Charlotte to get work and start this whole journey that we've been on. So. Um, Liliana, if you want to tell us, I don't know, tell us anything you want to tell us about you, and then Jonah, you can too if you'd like.
About me? Like—
Yeah.
Yeah. What do you want us to know?
I'm not good with bios, I guess. I, um, you know, I guess just became independent very young. Because of this scenario and just made me who I am today, I guess. Just very much need to do everything for myself because if I'm not doing it for myself, it's not getting done.
Mm-hmm.
So made the move to Wilmington to go to school and just been here ever since. And now I am an assistant property manager at an apartment complex. So. Living alone, have a cat, kind of just living my best life.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good.
Pretty good.
Thank you, Jonah.
Um, I am an install manager at Little Heating and Cooling. I do HVAC. I've been doing it for quite some time now and lately have been just trying to lock in with staying disciplined, you know, cleaning up around the house, making sure I'm cooking my meals. Just making sure I'm, you know, doing stuff that's, you know, has meaning behind it instead of, you know, being lazy and lying around and stuff. Um, so yeah, I kind of just hang out alone a lot and don't really do much, um, except just kind of try to work on myself and, you know, do what I can to make myself better.
And you also live by yourself?
I also live by myself. Um, luckily it's very nice being living alone.
Agreed. Agreed. All of us live alone now the first time. Yeah.
That's— yeah, wild. Would love to live with y'all again, but definitely love the space. I would love to.
Nah, it'd be cool. We could run it back sometime.
Yeah. No, I think we need a compound where we all have our own places to go home.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it'd be nice. Yeah, compound. Yes, when I start, when I start my cult, we can do that.
Which I'm sure you have a following.
Yeah.
Cult?
Cult.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know what that is?
I— yeah, why are you starting one?
Well, they have compounds. A cult usually has like a compound.
All right, I see. Like from, uh, you know, Servant.
Yeah, yeah, yep, that's right. A show all of us— Servant is a show all of us have watched together. We always— it was difficult sometimes for us to find shows that all 3 of us were into when we were living together.
Honestly, I feel like it used to be difficult for us to find a lot of stuff we were all 3 mutually into. But now we've kind of grown closer together and just really Enjoy each other's presence instead of really caring about what we're doing. Mm-hmm. At least for me. I don't know about you guys, but yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
I definitely feel like growing up and being— it's different than having like a relationship with you guys as a kid versus having one as an adult, because now it's like we're friends and family. Like, yes, we've all been friends, but it's like now we can actually be adults about what we do and how we do and Like Jenna was saying, just be intentional about quality time because we do live in different places as well.
Yeah, that's true. So we didn't, we didn't prepare questions today. We didn't prepare talking points. Um, I asked the kids.
This is all improvised.
As you could probably tell that it is. Um, but I get a lot of questions from family members. And I hear, and I talk to a lot of men whose kids won't talk to them anymore, whose family has turned their backs on them because of what they did while using. And so we have a different story. And so I want to share that here. So I want to start with, you know, that you two were pretty, really young when I was going through my meth addiction.
Yeah.
So we're talking 8 years ago. So Lily, you were 17, 16?
I mean, yeah, I would say like towards the end of it all, like starting it.
Yeah.
Yeah. Like 16. Right.
And so there's some things that, and the thing is, is I, in the beginning was doing, I think, a good job of hiding it. So I had 50 50/50 custody. Um, and so you always come stay with me for a week, on a week, off a week. Um, and so in the beginning, I was using while you were gone. Uh, but that quickly led into using while you were in the house.
Which is crazy because, you know, I was trying to think of stuff to prepare for this, and obviously I couldn't. But one thing that did come to mind was I don't know if you remember at that time someone was blackmailing you, uh, and, you know, you went to Lilia Tender's, like, you know, for money. And you said the photo they were, like, blackmailing you with was you using in front of us.
Mm-hmm.
And I just have zero any sort of recollection of that. Like, I had no idea that whole time until you told me. I, even if I saw you do it, I just, I don't know.
I mean, I don't even remember that. Like, it kind of sounds familiar, but I don't, like, I remember this story, but I don't recall you coming to me at Tinder and asking for stuff, I guess.
Do you, do you remember that? Yes.
Somebody, somebody had a picture of Me, I think I was holding a pipe and the bedroom door had opened and one of you was walking by. So all in the same photo was me holding a pipe and you in the background. So it wasn't exactly me using in front of you, but it was something that they thought that they could blackmail me with. And at the time, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. So what I would do is I would smoke. We would all smoke in my room and keep the door locked. And so when you all wanted to come in, you would knock on the door. And so everybody would put their pipes away and you would come in and you really didn't know what was happening.
Because I was going to say, there just isn't, I didn't, if there was a smell, I couldn't even tell you what it would be.
There's not a smell with meth. I mean, once you're in it, you can kind of smell it, but it vapors pretty, pretty quickly. That is, in terms of you can't really smell it. It's like using a vape kind of.
Right. Because I was gonna say, if I ever did even smell it, I would not even realize.
Yes.
Right. That I did.
You know, that might kind of check out because sometimes after like walking into your room, you know, and it was a little cloudy and stuff, and I would start feeling like some type of way and, you know, maybe it was just like some sort of secondhand effect.
I think you're making that up. Yeah. You're making that up.
New blackmail story.
Yeah.
Had to get the high off.
Right, right.
Yeah.
Yeah. So, so given that, you know, and here's the thing is I don't, you know, we don't, I don't want to have a podcast full of, you remember that time, remember that time, right? Um, which, which is fine if those memories come up, but I do want to have a podcast that gives people hope that there is reconciliation and gives men, it helps men feel like they're not alone in the things that they did. So some of the things that you must remember that I did. Was specifically for you, Lily, is, you know, when I got deep into shoplifting, um, I had you help me steal a printer from Staples. Um, you all provided the getaway car for me to, when I would steal big loads of stuff from Walmart.
I remember that with Remon.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So you were accessories to crimes and basically, yeah.
And it was like fun. It was like, let's see if we can get away with it. But now looking back, it's like very uncomfortable feeling, I guess.
Right. I mean, if I would have been arrested, you know, what kind of, what kind of trauma would that have caused?
Or a different thing. Right.
Right. Right. In front of you.
Yeah. In front of us.
Right. Um, and you, Lily, I, I took, you know, I wrote bad checks on your checking account. You were at the mall with your friends trying to buy something and you were overdraft, you know, you were overdrawn. You were stressed, you were embarrassed, you're a teenager. And, you know, and then you found out that I had, you know, there were bad checks written on the account.
Because I saved up so much money from working. Yeah. And then it was all gone.
And there was a time during that period that you did stop talking to me.
Yeah. So I was gonna bring that up too. And because it was just so emotionally hard for me because we were so close.
Right.
And then like you were just gone, I guess. So that was just really hard for me to work through because I just, cuz I think if I remember correctly, the time period that you were gone in West Virginia is we had known you were on meth and you went there because you were homeless, right?
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
And then when you came back, that's when I pretty much had a panic attack because I just didn't know how to handle it or want to maybe confront the feelings of seeing you again, I guess. But I mean, I watched a movie, which is so random, but A Quiet Place and the dad in that, like, for some reason it just like clicked in me to like want to talk to you again. So I just remember that day I reached back out to you and then I think that's when we met at like the subway or something in between. Yeah. And then it just kind of go— went up from there.
Mm-hmm.
Because I realized, I'm like, this is my dad again.
Mm-hmm.
And I could tell you were obviously trying to work on yourself and trying to get better. And like, that's just what I personally needed to see.
Mm-hmm.
And on top of that, it's really inspiring to watch somebody Go through that and then also be where you are now. It's, I mean, that's what I look up to whenever I'm in hard times as well. It's like hard times is also, um, different for everyone. Like that might've been your rock bottom and someone else's rock bottom could have been different, but yet you— I guess I'm just talking in circles at this point. But no, she's really inspiring to see get all the way back up and flourish though.
Right? Yeah. Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah.
That's why I should have prepared something. I can't even think.
No, no, no. You're all good.
My sentence.
You are. You are all good. Um, something I want to bring up is how the fact that the whole time he was using While we were living with him in that apartment. And, um, you know, he, he still took care of me and Lily. Um, you know, he would make sure there was dinner every night. Um, we still had a place to sleep and stuff. Yeah, it may have been the same, you know, same few meals, but it was still—
It was still dinner.
You know, it like, gosh, there's something I was going to follow up that— follow that up with. But he basically still took care of us. And, you know, sometimes, like, if I had a nightmare or wasn't feeling good or whatever, you know, I'd go crawl in bed with him. And, you know, he still just took care of us. Like, he still, still would put us first, even though he was like, had a pretty heavy addiction. He would never, like, put the meth first. Which is something that, you know, I'm thankful for. I think that went a very long way for me and my sister, for our futures. And, you know, just couldn't be more grateful for that.
Okay. I don't want to get emotional. It's just, it's interesting to me that you see it through that lens when I saw it through the lens that I was always putting meth first.
Yeah.
You know, what you didn't see, I mean, yes, I did make sure, I did make sure you had dinner every night. You didn't know when you went to bed, a lot of times I would leave and be gone all night. I mean, you said you got in bed with me. I mean, thankfully you never came to my room with a nightmare when I was gone.
Yeah.
But, you know, there was just times, there were so many times I did put meth first. I mean, I got us evicted. You know, obviously I did put it first to some degree, right? But to hear you, to hear you two talk about this, You know, that, that time, I think that it occurs to me that I've probably exaggerated and I've probably catastrophized it a little more and see myself worse than, than maybe it was.
Yeah. And I feel like just to piggyback off of what Jonah was saying is there might have been a time or maybe your feelings of where you put it first. And I can say, I think there was a time where I came to the realization of, You were putting it first, but it was an addiction in a way. Yeah. But it was only like a small amount of like the whole 2-year process.
Mm-hmm.
Like specifically the eviction, you being homeless kind of era.
Mm-hmm.
That's when I was like, this is getting a lot. This is kind of crazy. And you don't know how to process that. I mean, there are so many memories that I don't remember. I like blocked out because of just not wanting to even think about what life was at the time.
Yeah.
But again, it was just such a small part of it, of the whole thing. Because again, like Jonah said, yeah, like dinner was there. There was food. We did have a place to stay. And it's not like you were that far from mom either, that in the event that we did need something, we were close to our other parent.
Mm-hmm.
So that was really nice as well.
Mm-hmm.
But I've just, I mean, again, off of just me being independent, like I didn't really feel like I needed anyone. And I don't know if that's just like the, a rebellious teenager kind of deal and want to do everything myself as well.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, I guess that's a period.
Mm-hmm. So why, why? You were the last, you were the only person that would answer my call from jail, like the 3rd and 4th time. Um, why did you keep answering my calls?
Who else would? No one else would. And if I didn't do it, then you'd still be there. Obviously not to this day, but I mean, Janice wasn't answering. I'm not sure who else you called, but probably like friends at the time, but I just felt like I had to be there for you.
Mm-hmm.
I've always, I wouldn't say always, but there's just been situations in my childhood where I've been the parent for both of my parents. And that is one of them for you.
Yeah.
Is I just had to be there for you cuz no one else was. I also wanted to be there for you.
Mm-hmm.
Because I, I mean, that's really painful to go through, to listen to your father and like get a call being like, do you wanna accept this call from Mecklenburg County Jail.
Yeah.
And then you're, it's like your voice, like, Dallas. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, it's so, it was hard. I mean, yeah. But I wanted to be there for you. So.
Yeah. Well, I'm really grateful that you were.
Well, did you call me?
You, you couldn't drive and I, I don't know. So no, I didn't. I'm sure you would've picked up.
I think I just remember, uh, Mom pulled me out of school, I think, like the day you went to jail. I don't remember all the details, but, you know, she was telling me about it. And I think, Lily, is that when we met up for lunch or something? And then I drove straight to the jail.
Or when Mom took us out of school?
When she took us out of school.
Yeah, she took us out of school and then took us over to his house as if seeing it is something that we needed to see. And that was traumatizing in itself because the door was gone. And it's like, this is my place of living. This is my home.
Mm-hmm.
And it's trashed.
Yeah.
Why is it trashed?
I don't remember that.
Really?
Mm-hmm.
I thought she took us to lunch and then—
She probably did take us to lunch, but maybe she took us over there cuz we needed to grab something. I'm not sure, probably what it was. I don't know.
Yeah. So you, I mean, basically that's when the police came the first time and they busted my door in, down, and, and went through and rifled through the entire house. And so you got to see that, unfortunately, while I was in jail. Um, so that, so when that's when you got me from jail, um, and I started on this journey. Right. I wanted to get us a place to live. I wanted to get us back on track. Um, so what do you, do you remember, like what, I guess my question still is, you know, what, what do you, why do you think that you never held a grudge toward me or, or, or even just held it against me or at all that You were so displaced, you know, um, you were displaced and you were put here and you're put there. And then you finally, when I got the money, we finally got able to be a little bit stable. What, what was it that, do you remember anything about your thoughts around me?
I mean, going back to me, I guess I kind of, you know, at one point I did hold a grudge and then I think I let it go because I finally was like, When I talk to you, it's like every bad thing goes away. I think that because we have such a good and close relationship before.
Yeah.
And during.
Yeah.
And it was like, I just wanted to just go back to that. Okay. And from my memory, when you were staying at the apartment, like mom's apartment, Because you did stay there for more than 2 days.
So we, I ended up taking over a little while from, yes, that apartment lease because she had moved out with her boyfriend. So yes. Yeah.
So yeah, you took over the lease or however it was done. And then I could just see you were trying.
Yeah.
You know, so that's just kind of all it took for me. And then not, I don't want to bash Mom or whatever. I just mean at the time you were also the only parent.
Right.
So it's like, let me latch on again to someone.
Mm-hmm. Okay.
That's kind of how it was for me, I guess.
Mm-hmm.
Because who's to say, uh, my relationship with mom would be different if she had came back at that same time?
Mm-hmm. Right.
You know?
Yeah.
But the difference is you stayed there throughout my life. Besides a tiny little blip, like when you were just trying to heal yourself. Yeah. And I can, I can just understand that.
Yeah.
Even then I could just understand you needed to take time for yourself, you know?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
So, yeah.
Me personally, I don't know. I must have just like had faith in you or something.
Mm-hmm.
Because I just had no idea.
Yeah.
Maybe seeing how hard you were working to change things. You know, showing that you really wanted to change. Yeah, I have no idea. I, I don't remember. I don't know, maybe it was my only option.
Yeah, I mean, you went through some things that maybe you didn't even realize, you know, because again, probably again, you were displaced from your friends and moved to a new county. When I did find a place for us to live, it was out of county, right? So I took you— had to take you out of your school and everything like that. You lost a lot of weight and you stayed in your room most of the time.
Yeah.
Right?
Maybe, maybe that's, you know, maybe I was just too focused on other things.
To even notice.
Yeah.
Yeah, but, and you, and you had some separation anxiety. You always needed to know where I was at all times and what time I was going to get back.
Yeah, you went, which I didn't realize until remember a month ago I was looking through our old text messages.
Yeah.
Um, I really didn't realize that until I went back and reread it.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that's great.
Who cares where I was?
Yeah.
I could be gone days.
He wasn't concerned about that.
I would text Dad, is she coming back?
There the whole time. I'm sure he knew I was always coming back.
Yeah. Um, yeah, I think you make a good point, Lily, in that we, we had the 3 of us established a strong relationship before meth. Um, and our relationship, I think, got really strong after I came out, even though it was, that was a little rough time too. Um, but I just, I just always knew in the back of my mind, like, this is gonna be rough at first. But this is what's best. Like, I, I have to be true to myself and one of these days they're gonna understand that. Um, and it, and it did come true. It, we, you did. So after I came out and, and after all of that, the divorce and everything, the 3 of us began to get closer and closer.
Yeah.
And I think when meth came along, yeah, it put a spin on it, but I think that made it a little easier for us to come back.
Yes. Um, I think that if That relationship wasn't established before, I think there would be some grudges held still.
Yeah.
Regardless of you coming back or not.
Honestly.
Yeah. Because it's also not like you haven't ever addressed the issues anyway. Like you have addressed what happened, apologized, and we've forgiven you. It's, it would be so different if we just didn't talk about it. and just tried to move on because then I'd be like, but there's this era that we're just completely ignoring for what reason?
Right.
There's no point to ignore it because it just makes you stronger.
Mm-hmm.
It's also part of it's the fact that you didn't just apologize and say that you wanted to be better.
You, you did it.
You know, you took the action.
Right.
And gave it your all to improve yourself. Should, in that, you know, obviously actions speak louder than words. You were showing us visibly that you wanted to be better.
Mm-hmm.
Not only for us, but for yourself.
Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes.
And I think that's a good point for those out there who, I, I think I see a lot of guys, they're, they're doing really well for 30, 60, 90 days. You know, they're, to them, they, they know they've changed and everything's going well. They're doing so good and they get upset because Family members aren't supporting them yet, or they're not convinced. They don't trust them yet. They don't, they're not convinced that they've changed. And I just, I know for me, I never, I never tried to say, hey, look at me, I'm this. Hey, look at me, I've been sober this long. Hey, look at me. Like, I did try to just sit back and say, if I just keep doing my thing and if I keep getting better and better as a person, I know they're going to notice. They're going to have to notice. And I want them to notice on their own without me saying, hey, notice me. And, and I think I just need to—
No, I agree.
It's a very, yeah, it's a very good way to go about it. You just gotta trust the process.
Trust your own life and prove to yourself that you can be better for yourself because that's gonna be, that's gonna show other people that you have been growing. Because if you're going over being like, I'm better, I'm better, like you gotta show it. For a long time.
Yeah. Yeah. Yes, exactly right. So, and then we did it, but I, and I think I tell people like, it wasn't just me in recovery. I think it was all 3 of us in recovery, you know? Um, we were recovering our, our relationship, recovering our lives together. Um, you saw me, you all saw me at my worst. Um, Really at my worst. And, um, and now you've seen me at my best.
Yeah.
And, and I really needed your support. I really needed your support. Um, I needed you as much as you needed me. And the 3 of us, I think we just came, we have a level ground. We still do. I think I don't, you know, we, I, I don't, I, to me, I mean, unless you, unless you 2 have a different perception, I, I don't really function as dad when we're together. It's, it's like we're friends, but if you want advice, you know, you may ask me my advice on based on my experience, but I don't think that it's, you know, it's, it's, it's very much like we went through the trenches together and now we're besties. That's what I feel like.
I don't think you've ever been the stereotypical dad, if I'm gonna be honest. Like they say that dad standing. What'd you say?
Far from it.
Yeah. That's why our, I feel like their relationship hasn't ever really felt like father-daughter. Like, yes, it is in certain points, definitely have.
Mm-hmm.
But I think, I don't know. Yeah. I think that there's no, there's, it's not good to compare our relationship to a dad, a father-daughter or a father-son just because It's never been stereotypical.
No, for sure.
This year, just kind of how we are.
Yeah, I guess that is true.
Very unique.
Yes. Well, it's very unique. I did, you know, I mean, I, there were rules like in my house, if you all wanted to drink, if you wanted to smoke weed, you were allowed as long as you did it at my place.
Yeah. I was gonna say there's only one rule to go back.
Yeah.
At your place.
Huh?
We were doing that everywhere.
Well, yeah, okay, but I mean, you were allowed to at my house. Oh, I see.
I was saying the one rule was just pick up after yourself, which was—
Which was never adhered to.
That was the one rule, yeah, that was never followed.
Yeah, I mean, I guess I wasn't the traditional dad because there weren't—
there were no curfews or really a lot of But I think we just had trust in each other too. Or that's how I thought it was, at least.
I just wanted you all to— I wanted the— one of the main reasons I came out is I wanted you all to empower yourselves to define who you wanted to be. And you're not going to do that unless you have experiences. So if you wanted to experience with— if you want to experiment with weed, Do it. And if that's a part of your beingness, then do it. You know, it's not, it never did. I mean, neither one of you have had any kind of drug issues or any kind of addiction issues. Um, but I just, I just wanted you all, I just wanted you to develop your own rules and to sell. And then maybe that's not textbook parenting. Maybe, you know, there's a lot of people who would say that that was incorrect, but look at you two now.
You know, I think that might be the move and I think maybe more people should try that.
Um, I, I don't know.
We, we kind of grew up very well.
I was just gonna add, I kind of wish I had slightly more discipline cuz I think that would help me with my habits today.
Yeah.
That could also just be a personality flaw.
I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, no, you're right.
Jonah has discipline and that's just something I try to work on. So I'm like, I don't know, maybe it's, uh, nature versus nurture. Maybe he just learned it faster than I did, but, or maybe it is, it was necessary for me to develop younger that I didn't have. Mm-hmm.
But yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I wanted to also, I wanted to say on the podcast, or, or we wanted to say this to you both is just how, you know, and I've said this to you, but just how proud I am. of how well you've developed and you've become very strong, mature, secure, stable individuals with lives that I wish I had at your age. I really wish, I wish I was at the state you're in when I was your age, or, well, you know, you can't change anything. It happened the way it happened, but, um, you're, you're so far away ahead of, of where I was. Um, and I just, I owe, I mean, I, I really do owe my life to you both because I, I know if I did not have you two, I would, I would be dead out there. I would be dead out there or I would be in prison somewhere for life. Um, that I just, there was a reason why you two had come along in my life is I needed anchors. I needed responsibility. I needed people. Um, to care for, but not only to care for, but to care for me the way that you have. Because you just— the way that you loved me unconditionally, no matter what. You knew I went to jail. Your friends all knew I went to jail. You knew that I was doing drugs. You knew I was doing, you know, all the stuff that you found out along the way. And you just kept coming back to me and you just kept forgiving me and asking how to help. And I just— I think that's amazing. I think that is, those are the type, that's the type of person I wanna be.
Well, and you are.
I think we got it from you.
Yeah. I mean, we learned from you, so.
But I mean, yeah, if anyone watching this saw how things were, you know, 8 years ago, 6, 8 years ago, whatever, probably would've never guessed things would've turned out this way.
Right.
No, no, I, I wouldn't have.
Probably not. Probably not. I don't know.
I, I feel like I always knew it would be fine.
That's good.
Maybe that's a little too trusting though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I had my doubts.
We all did. Um, I don't— is there anything that I missed today that you You wanted to mention in this podcast or to say to, is there anything you would say to other siblings, children of addicts, of people who have chemsex misuse in their life? Like, what would you say to children who have addicts as fathers, I guess? And when I say addict, I just, yeah, I don't like that word, but you know what I mean. What, what would you, what advice would you have?
Do you wanna go first?
I'm thinking.
Oh, okay. I was just gonna say every situation is different, obviously. Maybe not every parent bounces back as quickly or bounces back at all. But, and this might not be easy, but just kind of put yourself in their shoes. Like if, if the shoes are them trying to better themselves, just put yourselves in those shoes, put yourselves in their shoes and just realize it's not easy. And just to give grace and time heals all. So just do what's best for you in that moment. And if in that moment is stepping, stepping away so you can heal as well, then you just need to express that. And I think. Communication is key and honesty is key. That's something I did wanna bring up is I think another reason our relationship is so strong is because we are so honest with each other.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's nothing to hide. I can ask you any question you would answer then and now.
Sure.
So as long as the communication and honesty is, can be built between parent and child. Then the rest of it is just time.
Hmm. Yeah.
It's kind of how I see it.
Yeah. It's good.
That's valid.
That's good.
Um, I would say to any children of, you know, of parents who are addicted out there, I would say maybe recommend to your parents Dr. Dallas Bragg. Um, They be able to work miracles.
Thanks. Thanks for the advice.
Well, I was also gonna say, and my advice to like parents is, is the same, basically. Put yourselves in their shoes and understand how traumatized that they might be. They also have to heal in a different way. So that's all I was gonna say.
Well, and also, you know, we mentioned your mom a few times here, but I just want to, I want to give a shout out to her in that. She could have at some point done something legally to keep me from seeing you two based on my felony charges, based on, you know, the criminal justice involvement. And she didn't. You know, I visited her once and I begged her not to. Um, and she decided not to. And I'm so glad that she did.
Yeah.
Because I, I, I, I don't know what I would have done if I couldn't see you. I mean, you were, you were my lifelines and, and maybe, maybe that wasn't right to put that on you, but you definitely were my lifelines for a long time.
Yeah. Big shoutouts to her cuz you know, that was very selfless of her.
Yep.
So yeah, definitely appreciated. Shoutout.
If she did do that, we would be in a whole different scenario, I think.
Yeah. Who knows?
Had that chance to bond with each other, to have that great bond after.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I had the benefit of a lot of people believing in me, you know?
Yeah.
I had the benefit and I think it's, again, it goes back to the relationships beforehand.
Yeah.
Um, and so I, I, I would say to you, if you're listening, if the rela— you know, if people aren't believing in you, if you having, if people are turning their back on you, You know, there, there may have been, there may have been something not established or some, some kind of seed of distrust beforehand, but it, if you really just zero in on yourself and just become better and a better version of yourself, an expanded version of yourself more every single day, just keep your, you know, keep your eyes on you. I really believe the rest of it comes, falls into place. It may take a lot of time, but it will.
I completely agree with that. I just gotta trust the process. I can't, I'm not saying this out of experience. I haven't been in that situation, but, you know, I know there's similar situations out there where you do just need to trust the process. Don't worry about the end goal. Don't worry about the end goal that you want or anything. Just every day, just focus on the present pretty much. Um, so yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, what's next for us, you think?
A big trip. What'd you say?
Me?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's probably not appropriate.
Probably not. Probably not. Yes, we're, we're going to try to make it, take a big trip for, to celebrate my 50th sometime early next year, hopefully. But we'll see. I wanted to keep this kind of short just because, you know, we don't have a lot to say, but I did. I just, whatever we said, I hope that it inspires you to know that there is life after chemsex. There is life after meth and there are restoration of relationships and people, you know, it, it may not, it may look bleak, but it can happen. And, um, I'm a living example of that and these two are too. So, and I just wanted to say, you know, again, to both of you, really love you, really appreciate you. Um, and I just look forward and I look forward to us continuing on this journey together.
Because it's only going to go up from here.
That's right. Yeah.
I'm excited to live next to you on our street again, or just a street.
Yeah.
Wait, what?
She was excited to live with us, to live together again.
Yeah. Or, or just on the street or in the same neighborhood, whatever.
Right.
I didn't know we were gonna—
it's gonna happen. I see it.
We are.
And even if it is deciding to live next to where you are, because I doubt you're ever moving, ever.
Was there anything else? Anything else? Anything else you all wanted to say?
Well, again, I just want to, you know, like you were saying, I love you and I appreciate you, um, for all the steps forward that you've taken to get where you are now. I couldn't be more proud of, you know, who you've become. I mean, it's crazy, you know, just the transformation you've made. Um, you know, not only you went through a meth addiction, you quit a very strong addiction, which was Not easy. Um, again, not saying from experience, but I know that was not easy, but you did what you needed to do and now you're helping other people do the same. So, which is, yeah, it's crazy.
As horrible of a time that that was to go through, you would not be where you are with this podcast, with what you're doing in your career now. And I think that this is your calling. I think this is what you were meant to do, is to help people through this. And You've already helped, I'm sure, a number of people. And the fact that it just grows and more people look up to you as well, I think that's very inspiring. And you are my built-in therapist, whether you like it or not.
Yeah.
Um, just because I know you're so wise because of all the stories, or I mean, all the things that have happened to you just in general. Like, you know what great advice to give, I guess.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And maybe I listen to it too well. Maybe, I don't know.
Maybe so.
Blindsided.
Yeah. Yeah, there is a rule between us. Like, I don't offer advice unless it's asked of me. So that is, that is a rule. That is a rule that I have set for me. I, I will sit back and let them Make their mistakes on their own. Which is good. Which is good. And if you— but you want my advice, I'm always ready.
Yeah.
Yeah. So, yeah. All right. Thank you guys for being here. I really appreciate you taking your time to be on the podcast. Thanks for having us. And if— you're welcome. You listeners, you want to join in the conversation, you feel free to comment on YouTube or comment on Spotify, or you can DM me, um, on all the social media channels. Be happy to talk to you. All right, thank you guys again. Love you.
Love you.
For you listening, we'll see you next week.
