EP 3:5 Finding Sober Community: The Queerity App with Jordan

You know, and it's really— it's, it's not how you fall down, but it's how you get back up. And, um, and I've gotten back up and just jumped right back into, uh, where I need to be mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically.

Chemsex: sexualized drug use among men who have sex with men, typically involving methamphetamine, mephedrone, and GHB, among others. Chemsex misuse is a worldwide epidemic that needs attention, dialogue, and hope for those lost in it, which is the purpose of the Aftermath Podcast. Please note the views expressed by the host and guests on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice, and the content around sex and drug use can be triggering. Welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast. I'm your host, Dallas Bragg. So a big question that we have on the podcast and a big discussion that we're always having is, how do I build a social circle Post chemsex, and sorry, I've got to get something out of my ear here. There we go. And that's a big, big question that we have, and we've discussed it here, we've discussed it there. Today we're offering you an alternative for that, and I'm really excited to see more people standing up and saying we need an alternative to Grindr, we need an alternative to Sniffies, and all the rest. They have their, they have their day in the sun. And the rest of them, bareback pigs or whatever, whatever it is that we're talking about, they have their market share. So where do we as sober people find our tribe, right? And where do we feel safe? So today we're going to give you an option for that. And I'm really excited to introduce my friend Jordan Hurt here. We met on Instagram where we meet. I meet pretty much anybody now these days.

Yeah.

Jordan is leading the charge here and I'm really excited to get to this. So can you tell us about yourself?

Yes. Hi, thank you for the introduction. My name is Jordan, Jordan Hurt. I am based in New York City. My bread and butter job is working in real estate in New York City.

I saw you're doing a lot of things. I looked at your Instagram page like he has his hands in a lot of stuff here.

Yeah. So I've been in the real estate game here for well over a decade. Um, it ultimately landed me a lead casting member spot on a reality show on Netflix called Owning Manhattan, um, where we just released season 2 in December.

Nice.

Um, and where I, I went public with my sobriety and recovery, uh, in season 2. Yeah. So I really— it was very important for me to share about that.

Mm-hmm.

Um, because I feel like it's not really represented a lot in reality television. In fact, it's the opposite, right? It's very, um, you know, drug and alcohol fueled, uh, environment. Um, and so I wanted to, um, show some representation. And so, you know, if any viewers, you know, were watching and, and felt any sort of identification or relation, like, that's exactly what I did it for. Um, and then with that, um, you know, the response was extremely positive and, and beautiful. Um, and then I, I got to thinking, um, about what I could do to like keep this kind of momentum going and use my, my little platform of exposure for something good.

Mm-hmm.

Um, because to me, A platform without purpose is pointless.

Yeah. I love that.

You know what I mean? Like, what are you doing with, with your little moment? Right. Um, and I'm like, well, you know, I'm sober and queer and like, you know, one thing led to another and I ended up founding an app. It is, it is the world's first sober LGBTQ+ social lifestyle dating hookup app. It's called Queerty, and it is available now.

Thank you. Thank you very much. And I'm going to have to watch. I don't have a TV. Good for you.

I, I don't, I don't want it either. I get too sucked into TV.

Yeah. Oh, but I, I, I wanna look this up. I wanna look this up and I'll have you up there. Check it out.

Yeah. Good show.

Um, yeah, but most people listening will, I'm sure, will recognize you then. Um, yeah, and I love this plat— a platform without purpose is pointless. You got, that's copyright Jordan Heard. Coin the phrase. Yeah. Uh, I love that. I love that. And if you're listening, what is that? How does that apply to you? You know, if you have, a lot of you are already in recovery for a while. long-term. And you have, each of you, if you're coming out of Chemsex recovery, you have a story. You have a story. You have been to the darkness. You have faced the devil and you've come out. So what can you, how can you use that? You know, and you don't have to create a, you know, you have to be on a TV show, create an app, but in your own little way, you know, how can you find purpose in that? I think that's a really good incentive. I love that very much. Um, so what I'm thinking about first is your, your, your, your recovery. It's interesting that you said representation of queers in recovery because it's interesting to me when I'm on different platforms and I'm looking for stock photos, you know, and I search queer or gay men, there's always a rave that comes up first.

Yeah.

Like a party scene.

Yeah.

And I'm like, huh, interesting stereotype.

Right, right.

What hetero put this together? Right. But, but that's the representation that we have in the main— in the mainstream culture.

Yeah. So I wanted to like try to rearrange that and re— you know, restructure that a little bit and just share my, my experience. Yeah, I know that I'm not a unicorn in this. And I know that there's many others that, you know, feel and go through what what I have. So yeah, yeah.

So what can you tell us a little bit about your story for those who don't know it?

Um, so, uh, I, I mean, listen, um, I can go back to the very beginning. I could, I could go deep, but I'll try to skim over, I guess, like the, the highlights. Um, so I mean, I'm, first of all, I'm the product of a one-night stand, so I was like born into Drama, you know, I was up for adoption and like, you know, all of this drama before I was even breathing air into this world.

Right.

Um, and so, yeah, um, you know, was raised by, you know, single mom and her parents, my grandparents, um, raised around alcoholism. My grandfather was an alcoholic. God bless him and may he rest in peace. But, you know, I knew how to get a can of beer out of the refrigerator every 15 minutes for him. But I was 3, so I was already like curious-minded with alcohol from as far back as I can remember, you know. And then eventually I got clever with it and I would open the fridge door and crack it open and take a couple.

Right.

I mean, I was like, like a baby doing this. Um, and same thing with like You know, like, I'm an addict through and through, right? But like, man, if I saw a half-smoked cigarette in an ashtray when I was 5 years old, you better believe I'm taking that puppy out back and I'm gonna burn her down. So like, you know, it's just, it's everything. It's everything that I can get my hands on. Um, and, you know, so growing up around alcoholism, Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I, I, I started drinking at a young age. I started smoking weed at a young age. Um, and obviously, like, you know, growing up, I also came out really young too. I came out when I was like 13 in Toledo, Ohio, which 25 years ago, Toledo, Ohio, like there was no, you know what I mean? There was, we barely had internet. There was no cell phones, like, um, no resources, no community, you know what I'm saying? So like.

Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.

And it was a very homophobic environment, you know, including, especially my direct family. Right. So, like, every day, every day was putting on armor and having to have thick skin and, like, fight for who I was because I was— it was only going to be me that was going to do it. And, you know, I think with leaning into, like, drinking and drugs and weed in particular at that point in my life, um, it just allowed me to escape the harsh reality of what I was living at such a young age.

Yeah.

And, um, and it felt good and it was fun and it loosened me up and it washed away all of my like anxiety and fears. And, um, obviously I was always like other than, and, you know, an outsider and, um, Never fit in. I didn't have a dad, you know. Um, yeah, so it was just, it was, it was tough, um, growing up in that, in that place. Later, I eventually met my father for the first time when I was 16, and come to find out I have 3 siblings, a stepmom, a whole other life, right?

Oh, wow.

Um, this is around the same time I'm, I'm coming out, I'm smoking weed, I'm drinking or whatever. Nobody knew what to do with me. I was sent to live with my dad to try to straighten me out. Like, it was the— you know, all of this happened by the time I'm 16.

Wow.

And like, I knew who I was, right? Like, and I was like, don't, don't let the bastards get you down. You know what I mean? Like, I kept pushing. Um, and but, you know, um, there was also a lot of alcoholism on my dad's side. So I'm like, from both ends. And yeah, just like kind of like growing, you know, like late teens, early adulthood, I like leaned in on substances and alcohol. I got my first DUI when I was 21. Like, I, you know, and then, and then I was like, I'm an Apollo Geographic, right? I'm moving to New York City. I don't drive there. I'm gonna have the time of my life. And I hit the ground running, you know, as soon as I got here, I was like swinging from the rafters.

Yeah.

And it was fun. I was in my early 20s, you know, uh, and that was my excuse for a long time for this, like, substance abuse that, like, I'm in my 20s in New York, like, of course, what I'm supposed to be doing. But I was obsessed and I always took it to an extreme level, like, um, and, you know, jails, institutions, all of it, like, Mm-hmm. all throughout my 20s and early 30s. Um, you know, I've been to jails all over. I've been to every hospital in New York City. I was that type of addict. And, you know, I finally, um, started recognizing— uh, I knew in the back of my head, I was like, you got to do something about this one day, but it's not going to be today.

Right. Deal with this later.

We'll deal with it later.

Yeah.

Um, in the meantime, shut up and party, right? Um, you know, uh, drugs were always kind of like mixed in with it, but I was like a hardcore drinker. Um, now by the time I think I was like late 20s, I was like, all right, like, this is— I'm gonna die, you know what I mean? Like, I've gotta, I've gotta quit drinking and using and stuff. Um, and then I was my own mad scientist with sobriety. I was like, well, this works and this doesn't, you know, as we do, right? Trying to control it, trying to manage it, whatever. Um, and then I got like heavily into the sex, um, party scene in New York City. Um, and at first it was like light drugs, as I call them, you know, like a little coke, a little coke here and there. Exactly. Yeah, because I was like, well, it could never be me, right? You know, like Tina could never be— you know, I'm not— that one's not, you know.

Yeah.

Uh, that one's off the table, right? Like Until it wasn't, right? You know what I mean? Until, like, it very quickly wasn't, and it became a part of my story. And the moment that I, I first experimented with this drug in particular, I knew that I had— I had gone to hell. Like, I— do you know what I'm saying? Like, I think only a person— I know you know, I— but only a person that has Gone through the experience with this drug knows that feeling of like, I know what hell feels like.

Yeah.

Um, and, um, and, and it pulls you in, it grabs you and it drags you down. And it is so insidious. It does not discriminate. You know what I mean? And, and also like, um, a queer person, um, in a big city where this stuff is just like, it lives in the shadows and it is right in front of you at all, you know what I mean? Um, so I, I kind of like fell into that and immediately I knew, I was like, you have to go to like CMA, you have to get into 12-step, like you have to run for your life.

Mm-hmm.

And so I, right away, like right away I was like, I don't know what CMA is, but I need to go there. So I started going and I, you know, I was back and forth with it for, you know, a couple of years until I like really kind of got it, um, or not got it right, but until I was really able to like put some time under my belt, um, with sobriety, um, you know, and it was obviously— Well, for me, um, it was so tied to sex. Right. Um, the, the euphoria of it, the whole thing, we, you know, we know. Um, and so, um, and yeah, I, you know, I put in, I put in, um, some effort into my sobriety and, and got some time. Relapse is definitely part of my story.

Okay.

Um, and, you know, and it's really, it's, it's not how you fall down, but it's how you get back up. And, um, and I've gotten back up and just jumped right back into, uh, where I need to be mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. Um, and thank God for that, you know. Um, and yeah, uh, and, and I guess it kind of has led me to the point that I'm at now. Um, but, you know, with, with all of that knowledge and everything, and most of my community is sober, and a lot of them in, you know, um, you know, crystal meth recovery, um, I just recognized that like, why doesn't something like us, or why doesn't something like this exist for us, you know, in reference to the app?

That's right.

Yeah. So that's kind of, uh, Quick little bit of an overview.

Can, do you, do you mind if I ask you a few questions?

Sure.

Just for the, for the audience's benefit too. And make it, and make a few statements. It's interesting when you're talking about you're trying to, you're trying coke, like we try coke, we try MDMA, maybe, maybe a psychedelic like LSD or something. To me, in my mind, it, it, it, when I picture it, I picture it like going up a roller coaster, you know, you're slowly climbing. The hill. And then the moment you take Tina, it's like zoom, right? It's just this descent into hell, like you said, hell. And I think about this, what I feel like is different. And then again, this is the world according to Dallas. This is not research-based.

Yeah.

From my, from my experience, the way that crystal meth works is a lot like if you watch, I did watch, um, I used to watch TV and I watched Coven, American Horror Story Coven.

Oh yeah, I love that.

They each went to their own version of hell.

Right.

Right? Like Jessica Lange was, had naughty pine as her, you know, was her hell was in a place of naughty, had naughty pine everywhere and it smelled like fish, fish and piss or whatever.

Yeah.

But to, to me, crystal meth seems intelligent enough to go into your brain.

Mm-hmm.

And, and it knows what to pull out. Mm-hmm. That's your personal hell.

Yep.

Right. And it's so, it, and you use the word insidious. It's in, it does appear to me like it's an insidious substance. And it's just, it's just wild that each person, and this is the reason recovery is so, it is so nuanced with it too, is that each person goes in with a different context and has their own version of hell. And, and you, you recover from that. So it is difficult, I think, to say one, one, one thing for all, or, um, what am I trying to say? Um, one alternative, one size fits all is what I'm trying to say. It's hard to say one size of recovery fits all. Yeah, because, because of that.

Yeah. But one thing I do know is that, you know, crystal meth in particular will rob you of your soul. It will, it will suck it right out of you. And then you're left, you know, to recover and pick up the pieces and find yourself again in a very extreme way. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's not like the other substances or alcohol. Like, this thing will rock your world.

Yes. Yes. It, it, and everybody that says, oh, it's just an addict and his addict or a drug is a drug. It's not. Like, it's just different, especially when it comes to gay men.

It's different.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Men who have sex with men. So, um, I just wanted the part that I wanted to ask you about your own personal story is I think it's important for us to hear that. Yes, you relapsed. Yes, it took a while to catch on. You didn't just walk into the rooms and you were completely abstinent.

No, absolutely not. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that's it. I think it's important for us to keep hearing that in people's stories. Because we have guys out here who are coming in with an expectation of, I'm never using again. And they'll even say, I'm not using again. And then when they do, it just reiterates this fact that they're a failure.

Yep. I think that that's pretty dangerous. I mean, like, listen, everyone is entitled to say and feel whatever they want about their journey. Um, but I learned that I What, and this is, you know, can be a bit controversial. I learned I was not going to say this is, this is the last time I'll ever do this again, because then if I did it again, I would be so hard on myself. And, you know, yes, the intent is to never do it again. Right. But you also kind of have to, you have to be easy on yourself with this disease, right? Like it's, and it comes up when you least expect it.

Yeah.

Good. For a year, you know, you think you're good for a couple of years, like, oh, it's in my past. Yeah, honey, that thing will come right back to bite you. Yeah. And so, and the only thing you could do is keep it pushing, you know, like keep going, get right back to where you, you know, were. It does not erase, um, the time that you had.

It does not.

Thank you. Not at all. Like, that is a, that is a growing experience that still is a part of you and get back to it and, and move right along, you know? Um, yeah, I, I know that it's hard to go back to this like mental place of like, oh my God, day one again. Don't think of it like that.

That's right.

Like, absolutely jump back to where you were.

Yeah.

Um, And, and keep fucking going because, you know, yeah, that's, that's what you can do.

Yeah. You're, you're speaking my language and it's not controversial, I don't think. Um, because I, I'd say, I'll tell all my clients, do not say I'm never using again.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because it's like this thing that they think they're jinxing themselves.

Yeah.

If they, if they say, yeah, but just say, look, like you're saying, long-term, I'm working toward a goal of never using again.

Yeah. Yeah.

However, I might use again. In fact, I want to use again. Yeah.

And be honest with yourself and, you know, and just set yourself up for, for success as much as you can. Be easy on yourself, man. The worst thing we could do is like to, to shame and guilt ourselves. 'Cause it's already like this, this disease and this drug in particular, it already is surrounded by shame and guilt and Embarrassment and depression and all of that. And it's like, man, anything you could do to alleviate a little bit of that, like, please do so.

Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. Yeah. And that's the key. That right there is the key to successful and sustainable recovery. And, and like you said, you don't lose the time. Like I tell, like guys will say, I went 6 months, I used 2 weeks ago. So I'm I'm only at 14, 14 days. It was like, no, in 6 months and 2 weeks, you've used one time.

Yeah. Yeah.

The prior, the prior 6 months, how often do you use? Uh, every day. Okay. So you're improving. You're headed, the metrics are showing that you're headed towards your goal.

Yeah, absolutely. And obviously, you know, it's not linear. It's not black and white. Some people walk into recovery and they get it and they never relapse. And like, God bless you, unicorn. Like, you know, like, I don't know, like, that's not, that's not me. It's, it's not most of the people that I know, right? Like, especially, um, with, you know, meth and, you know, it's a journey, baby.

It's, it's a journey. And like you said, so it does, it can sneak up on you. It truly can.

It has happened to me. It happens all the time. you know, to close friends of mine.

Yeah.

Um, an ex-sponsor of mine who was— I want to say he had like 8 or 9 years or something. He sponsored so many people. He was like highly looked at, um, and, you know, in the world of recovery in here in New York. And, you know, like, he just went out and it's like It shows no mercy on anyone. Like, right.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah. Um, and if you're listening to this, I don't want you to take that in a negative way and in this like fearful way. Oh my God, I have to be on guard. No, it's just do the— keep doing the work. Just keep doing the work every day. And if it does sneak up on you, it does.

Yeah.

Right. Like, I, I can remember it was, Probably 5 years in, I guess, 4 years, something like that. I tell this story a lot, but I was at the gym, randomly at the gym, really working out hard. I looked down, my veins popping out because I was an IV user.

Right.

That, that feeling that you get with the, with the, with the needle is imprinted on my, in somewhere in my emotional system, my nervous system forever, probably.

Totally.

Because you can just, I can just think of it and my body reacts as if it's happening. And I was in the gym and that happened and I was like, my, I was covered in sweat and I was like, I, all I could think about was getting it, you know? So I had to leave. I had to walk out. I mean, this was like 4 or 5 years in.

For sure. For sure.

Yes. Yep. It's tough. It's different.

Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, for sure. Right. I think that that's where you have to like lean in on, Um, your community and your recovery and any sort of like routine and program that you have implemented, like that's what that's there for.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

Yeah. And so that makes me think about one way that it does sneak up on you is through hookups. So we're going to segue over into the Queerty app because time after time after time, and anybody who follows me knows how I feel about in early recovery. Grindr and Sniffies especially. You know what, there's something about Scruff. Scruff doesn't come up as much. I don't know why, it just doesn't come up as much.

Yeah, I don't know. I never— I wasn't a Scruff user.

Yeah, yeah, I was, but I, yeah, I never used it to— I never used it for chemsex.

Yeah, a lot of people— I know a lot of people that, that have. But yeah, I mean, the mainstream apps, kind of what we were saying, well, exactly what we were saying before we started recording. But, you know, the mainstream apps are often a way that people are introduced to the drug and to chemsex culture.

Right.

And then they have that experience. And, you know, if and when they choose to get sober, you know, people are, you know, there's a fear of the apps and of sex, and it's all tied together. And then, you know, we're blocking apps and we're trying to stay abstinent for the first 90 or, you know, 180 days or whatever the case may be, right? Um, and, you know, I'm like, well, where, where's the safe space for us to be together, whether you're looking for friends or dating or sex? Sex, you know, is a very important part of this, right?

Mm-hmm.

And I think that, uh, you know, sex in recovery needs to be normalized, and we have to like reprogram our brains to, to work, um, to make, to make sex a safe place, right? And to like separate it from, from the drugs and from the chemsex culture. Um, and so I, I created Queerty, this app that is very sex-forward, um, you know, and it It is designed to protect sobriety. It is only for sober queer people. Um, and, and it's not like— even the color scheme and the design, like, it's not like super dark and dungeon-y or triggering. You know, we're very careful with like the emojis that we use. And, um, you know, I was like, there has to be a place for this in the world.

Yeah.

Like, it doesn't exist and I don't understand why. Like, You know, we're all— it's 2026. We're, you know, we're out here, we're trying to stay sober, we're trying to have sex and have friends and have dates and everything, but we're weeding through and navigating through all these mainstream apps. And it's like, this just cancels out all that noise.

Yeah.

Here is one, one platform designed for, you know, our community, um, for multiple intentions. Um, so great.

Yeah, because so, you know, for somebody in Chemsex recovery and they're, they're newly, they're, they've been out away from the app, they're, they're getting some momentum going and just thinking about clicking on that, on that Grindr icon is scary.

Yeah.

It's scary because you're opening up that whole world, like you said, that, that where you You came into it. It's the door. Yeah. Right. For sure. Um, and, and not only that is, especially in a place like New York. Yeah. You show up to the hookup and you've, you know, you haven't specifically said, I don't party. Well, they just hand you the pipe.

Yeah.

A lot of times I've heard this story, you know?

Yeah.

It's like this hand, they just assume you party.

Yeah.

Right.

And so— You walk into like the red hue and the house music and the whole setup. And you're like, oh, well, like, we didn't even discuss this or whatever, but like, clearly they're partying, right?

Right.

Um, and so you gotta, you gotta protect yourself, you know? And, and a lot of the mainstream apps, they're just not designed to help protect you. Yes, there's a little sober filter that you could click on, but that means nothing, right? Like, it really, it really doesn't. To, to have to navigate through all that and have all of these conversations to like confirm that you're walking into a safe and healthy environment. that won't trigger you. So this just eliminates all that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. I think that's, it's exactly what we need. Yeah, especially for chemsex recovery. We need a space where you can, you can scroll and feel safe and have the conversations and all of that. And I would say, when I was thinking about this before I got on, because I, I made a profile, and I got on. And, and did all the stuff. And I'm in Charlotte, North Carolina, so there's not too many close to me.

Yeah.

And that, and that's what—

Yet.

Yet. Yet. And, and so if you're listening to this and you get on the app and you say, ah, there's nobody close to me, I'm just— just use it as practice.

Yeah.

Like, like talk to people that are far away for now. Yeah. Right. Just stay on it though.

Yes.

Like, keep coming back just to, just to practice being on an app and feeling safe. If there's nobody near you, who cares? It's going— they're going to be. Tell your friends about it.

Yeah. Thank you for that. So, you know, the app is— we launched exactly 4 weeks ago. You know what I mean? Like, that's not—

yeah, that's not long at all. Right.

Literally building out this community and the community. Everyone is out there. We know that, like, there are users for this. Um, that just may not know about it yet, right? It's new. Um, so I'm trying to get as much exposure and visibility and get it in front of everyone's eyes as possible. Um, and yeah, like, you know, uh, just like you said, like, once one person, um, starts using it and, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's going to grow.

Yes. Yes.

So if you're in a small city or, you know, not in a major city and you get on there and there's nobody close to you, Give it time because we're, we're taking this thing on the road. Like, it will grow. Um, and we also need users to help build this community too, right? So, um, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to, I wanted to get that in here because I could just hear the rebuttal from, you know, already, but help grow it, help build it and make, and make new friends that are far, that are far away. Why not? Have conversation, trade your dick pics if you want, you know, go ahead, why not? You know, that's what you're going to do on Zoom when you go on Zoom and you're using, you know, it's not people close to you usually, it's people far away.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think wonderful. Just, just great. Just perfect. Exactly. Especially what we need for those of us who are trying to sexually reintegrate You know, we're trying to express ourselves, figure out what we want, you know, and you don't have to go through the explanation of, you know, because you're going to know you're both not using, so you don't have to go through that explanation and get the nerve up to share that, you know, it just kind of alleviates so much of that pressure and stress.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

I wanted to show, if you, if for those who are watching, I wanted to show your Instagram page for If that's okay with you.

Yeah, of course.

All right, so it's Queerty app, it's @QueertyApp. We'll put the, of course, the link in the show notes. But I thought it was interesting, chemistry without chemicals. You're really good with the taglines, aren't you? I like it. But I wanted to, I wanted to play this little clip if that's okay. I thought it was interesting what this guy says.

My ideal social or hookup experience takes place at 3 PM on a Saturday afternoon because I can get my workout in the morning. I can also then have dinner and get to bed at a decent hour. And it's advertised as not necessarily like a, hey, you have to be in recovery, but like, hey, there's no substances here. Boom.

I love that.

Yes.

I love that. Yeah. That made me really excited because For one thing, that's my ideal schedule.

I know, Saturday at 3:00 PM. Do you hear me? Like, exactly. I have stuff to do and we're not, we're not going too late. Like, you know? Yes.

He knows, he knows what's going on. He knows what's up.

Okay.

Yeah. I mean, you're, it looks like you're doing this really well too. I mean, design-wise, marketing-wise, I mean, it's really, really impressive because I, that's, To be honest, that's, you know, I wondered about that in the very beginning. I was like, because there's been some other apps that have come along, like sober apps, like community type apps that didn't stick with me.

So yeah, I mean, listen, I am basically making it my life's mission to, to continue building this out. We are, we just launched in Europe today.

Yeah.

Because in my research, right, like, I'm looking up like the highest addiction rates per country. You know, obviously the United States is up there. Canada, Mexico, certainly up there. Australia, UK, Germany, right? Like Spain, all of that. So I'm like, we're touching, we're getting to all of them, you know, one by one. We're certainly gonna, we're gonna make it happen. Um, so yeah, we just launched in Europe today. I'm gonna head out there in a couple months and start promoting and, you know, doing some marketing stuff out there. But, um, yeah, it's just like, it's, it's so needed. Um, and, and I think we all know that, you know? So—

That's right. That's right. Exactly right. Um, exactly right. So if you're listening, I want you to Download the app and make your profile and start chatting.

Yeah.

Start chatting. Um, get used to being on it, especially if you, um, have, you know, have not allowed yourself to be on Grindr or Sniffies or the rest of them. Is be on there and do your thing and start figuring out what you want sexually too, because this is the whole part of sexual reintegration is what was I into before meth? You know, what was meth-fueled? And now after, what do I like that maybe I did find out in chemsex that I do like, right? And so you can start, you can start discovering that through conversation, through sexting, right? You know, and it's safer that way. Yeah.

And we still have all of the kinks that you can filter out and again, try to just reinforce it in a positive way, right? Like, if you're into leather and that's Yeah, that's something that you did with Chemsex. Like, you know, I don't think that you necessarily have to like abandon that and, you know, like, like, let's, let's try to look at it in a healthy lens and through a sober lens and explore that. And yeah, so it is, it's very, it's very sex-forward and positive.

Yeah, yeah, I was going to mention that, that, you know, it has all the things, it has your position. Yeah, it has all the, all the stuff that you would get on the regular app, plus your kinks, you know, all of that, plus you have a daily check-in. How was your recovery journey today? How's your mood, your cravings, your plan? I love it. 3 quick questions, 20 seconds, it says.

Exactly. Boom. So there's that like little like wellness kind of lifestyle component to it. You could do the, the check-in, track your progress. We have a community events page for, you know, every city, any sober events that are going on, we try to have them listed. Any venues, like any sober bars, we have those listed as well. And that's a continuous effort as well that we'll continue building upon.

Mm-hmm.

But we just wanted to make it this all-encompassing place for, like, let's say you do want to meet a friend from the app or, or a date or whatever, you could just literally hop on the community page and like scroll through and see if there's a place you guys can meet up in a safe environment. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you, I liked it too that you could choose sober, sober curious.

Yeah.

In recovery or prefer not to say.

Yeah. Yeah.

You, you have all the options there, which I was afraid it was, I was getting on thinking it was going to be very kind of 12-step driven, but it's, but it's not. It doesn't seem to be.

Thank you. Um, because it was important to us, my, my partner and co-founder and I, um, who are in 12-step, right? Um, but like, we didn't want to like push that narrative so much, right? Because we know that that's not for everybody. Um, and yeah, so we wanted to like You know, make it, um, just like this sober or sober adjacent, you know, you don't have to identify as like an, you know, recovering addict or a person in 12-step. Like, you know, you could just very well be a person that abstains and doesn't have any sort of substance abuse, um, issues, um, but you just want to meet other like-minded people.

Mm-hmm. I like that because that's going to be a question too, is, you know, is it 12-steppy? Oh, I see my friend Wesley on here. Oh, he's in the— in New York City.

Yeah, yeah, I know Wesley. I knew Wesley. I just saw him last week. I was literally in Chelsea hanging flyers, um, for the app, um, and ran into him. Yeah.

Uh, we officially met at the Here Queer Sober, um, roundup.

Yeah. I was there. Was it last year or were you—

It was October of last year. No, September of last year. Yeah.

Okay.

Oh, cool. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. So met, met a lot of New York City guys.

Yeah. There's a lot of us. There's a lot.

Yeah.

There's a big, big old community.

Yeah. And I wonder too, it's interesting to me cuz you know, in New York you go on an app There's so many people that you only see this radius. But if you could filter them out by sober, you're going to see people you've never seen on Grindr as well. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I feel like with Grindr, you know, that the sober little filter or whatever—

I didn't know it had that.

Yeah, I don't, I don't trust it, right? Because I'm like, well, what if this person is like, once I identify as sober a year ago and they put that there and they're currently out, you know, using meth right now and are trying back in and out. Like, I, I, I'm just like, that's like, you know, not 100% reliable.

No, I, I, I don't trust Grindr's algorithm. Yeah.

At all.

I don't— talk about insidious. I, I think it's an insidious algorithm myself. And I can prove it with my own research, but Yeah. Because I tried, I tried here just testing it. Like I had party, like a party conversation.

Right.

Just to see, cuz I, I didn't pay for extra.

Right.

I just wanted it to be, I wanted to see, I, I saw my grid, which was small.

Yep.

But once I had a party conversation, all of a sudden guys started showing me my grid that were out of my grid.

Interesting.

That were, that were, that were also party guys. Now, how insidious is that? How insidious is that? And that's That's my own anecdotal story. Yeah. But no, I believe it. I just, I just knew it and I wanted to test it to prove it. So, yeah.

Yeah. No, I don't trust it. I don't trust it at all.

Me either. Uh, yeah. Well, great. Thank you, Jordan. Thank you, Jordan, for— is there, is there anything, is there anything we haven't said or we haven't mentioned here that you wish we could have or would've went into?

Um, no, I think that we Did a really good job at covering, covering things.

Yeah. Well, I'm sorry that I didn't realize you were a celebrity.

No, I'm not. I do not. I'm like, I don't use that, that word or fame, nothing like that. I am just a regular person that happened to be on a reality TV show.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's, that's what that is.

That's all. Well, not many of us can say that though.

Yeah, it's a cool life experience that I'm very grateful for, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Real estate's such a hot— everybody loves watching.

Yeah, exactly. And just like a drug, it's an escape, you know what I mean?

Like, yeah, yeah, right, right.

It's a dopamine hit, um, and it's, you know, it's like entering this other world that you don't normally get to see. It's escapism. Hmm.

Interesting. Interesting. There's another podcast episode for us. Yeah. All right. Thank you, Jordan, so much for sharing. And again, for you, for you listening, please download the app. Yes, get on it. I already found, I already found a friend to chat with on it online.

I'm so happy to hear that.

I'm in Charlotte.

Yeah, I'm coming down to Charlotte too to promote it soon.

Oh, good.

Yeah, I'm gonna drive down to, um, like, I'm gonna hit Baltimore, DC, um, I'm gonna get over to Charlotte and Asheville and like that.

Oh yeah.

The Carolinas of it all.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm literally— I'm like, I'm on tour.

Asheville. Yeah, Asheville would be really good, right? Yeah, there's a lot of— yeah, there's a good sober— there's a big sober community there.

Yeah. And Charlotte too, right?

Yeah, I think so.

Like, like there's, there's some, there's some people, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah. There, there's— Charlotte and Raleigh and Durham.

Yeah.

Like that whole, like, you know, all over there.

So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We'll be out there.

Yeah. Yeah. Great. Good. I look forward to it.

Yes. Well, great.

All right.

Great talking to you.

Great talking to you too.

Thanks for having me.

All right, guys. Thank you. We will see you all next week.

Bye!