Building a $20k/mo Lead Gen Agency inside Client Ascension (Cold Email for Clients)

Yo, what's up, everybody? I got Orey here. Ori is. Ori is awesome. He's got a really good story and. Welcome in, brother. I kind of want to start this with. Not very. The lead here is like, where. Where did you start before? Where were you before Client Ascension? And then just like a. Like a. Like, where are you now? And then I want to talk about your story, because it's really good.

Okay. So before Client Ascension, I was closing, but I had quit my closing because I was disillusioned with the. The biz op offer. I was selling because it wasn't getting my clients results, and I bought it, and it wasn't getting me results, which was even worse. It was. And. And the cool thing was I. So I was g. So I was, like, gaslighting my wife because I was like, liz, just do it. It gets results. Like, I bought it. And I was like, you do this. And then she wasn't getting results, and I was like, liz, you're just not doing it right. You're messing it up. And then. And then finally I was like, shit, it doesn't work. And then when I found out it doesn't work, I was like, all right, I'm quitting. So I was at $0 a month when I joined Client Ascension, so. And now I think we're anywhere between 15 and 25k on any. Because you were like, in the last 30 days, I'm like, I don't know. Like, I never think this way. I'm always like, how many book this week? What happened today? Like, a month, we could be dead. Like, I'm always thinking, what happened now? Oh, we booked four today. Okay, that's good. So that. That's how my brain works.

Yeah. So I wanna. I wanna hear about this arc, like, kind of like. Like, you were supporting your family, yada, yada. And then, like, you ended up in a situation where, like, you were trying to run some agency using some other person's techniques, and it involved, like, outsourcing everything, and none of the clients were getting results. And, like, that just, like, inherently feels dirty. And you didn't like that. And now you're in a situation where it's like, I want to hear this from you.

Here's. Here's what I want to say. First. I'm 39. And people don't realize because you, like, amen. You see these young people making it, and what you have to understand is it's easy to make it when you're young, because there's no one like you have nothing to lose. And the reason, like, when you. When you fall, like the bowtie bull or like the old Wall street playboy stuff, they're like, no one really makes it after 30. Like, I shouldn't be here. If Covid didn't happen, I wouldn't be here. And the reason it's so difficult is because you get into patterns and you have this image of yourself that must be maintained. And you're fighting these battles that don't need to be focused fought anymore. And you don't realize, like, it's too psychologically painful. Like, our last business, we were making 4 or 500,000 a year. That's great, right? But 8% margin, you're in hospitality. Get. Can I curse?

Get. Yeah, I think so.

And people don't realize that. And no one, like, stops to think, is this the life path? Like, is this what I should be doing? Because you're in it now and. And you have customers calling you every day and you're on Facebook and you're going to high school reunions and you have to look like a success. You're on the inside. You're miserable on the inside. Every 30 something just wants to, like, move to a city where nobody knows them and start over, but we can't because we have friends and family. And you become like, for like 30 somethings watching this. Like, the bonds that you think are holding you back don't actually exist. And the only reason you get pushback from your friends and family is because you exist as a decoration for them. You're like a Christmas ornament and you have to stay the same. So when you change, they get freaked out because they don't know what's going on, but they don't actually care. Your life is a decoration for them. Even your parents, they love you, they want you to be happy, but they don't really care. I remember when. So like I lost my. My. So. All right, let's. You want to start at the beginning? So basically, 21:22, I was going to graduate magna cum laude from Drexel, and I found out that my parents were not in love anymore. And my dad had run hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt up as a passive aggressive retaliation for not being in love with you. And this is my family company, so everything. So I remember, like, you know how, like, people complain, like, oh, I have credit card debt. I joined Client Ascension, Whatever. I was stressed and I was like, I would kill to be that, because my dream was to start from nothing. But like, when you start hundreds of Thousands of dollars in the hole. And like I was working 60, 70, 80 hours a week selling to get my family out of the hole. Imagine working 70, 80 hours a week living with your parents or your mom and ending with less money than you had before. Because everything was going into the. So that was my life for a while. And essentially it was just dysfunctional. Like every, every dollar that was made was basically buying freedom, right? Was just buying the next week because we had no credit in the business. We were running an 8% margin business because it was hospitality based business off of a debit card, which is extremely stressful when you have huge payroll expenses like you do in hospitality. So that was my life for a long time. And then we finally were able to get my dad out, which is very expensive. And then we started the new business, same field. And I wrote a textbook. I did all these things, but really I just wanted to finish college. But then I was like, well, I'm already making money, I guess I'm stuck. And then Covid happened. So Covid happened and I was going to the office and I was writing, was writing another book, just pretending everything was normal. Then after two days of this, I'm like, okay, this is not normal. And I got a job because I'm a college dropout. I never had a job outside of my family. So I was like, well, I can work at the Amazon warehouse. So I went to work in the Amazon warehouse because I was like, I don't know what a job is. And they were paying like double for Covid because nobody wanted to work. And I would go through. So you're like. So I would go in New Jersey, so I lived in old city Philadelphia, like fancy apartment, because the image is so important, right? But I would go walk to the Camden, take the, take two trains through all the like fentanyl druggies. Um, and there's police everywhere, so no one like kills you. And then you go to the Amazon warehouse, which is like a Burlington, which is like hollowed out, used to be beautiful like a hundred years ago, but now is like just ghetto, which is where they set up Amazon warehouses. And the Amazon warehouse is like a miasma of pain. So basically there you can't win because it doesn't matter how strong you are, they just give you the worst. Like, what are, what are you going to do? Like, you see the pregnant lady and what are you going to let her pick up the 60, like the 40 pound bags of kitty litter for eight hours? No, you're going to do it. And it's on concrete. So the Amazon warehouse is like infinite suffering. You see 19 year olds that cannot survive without a leave, they have Advil, vending machines. So it doesn't matter, like, doesn't matter how big you are, doesn't matter how strong you are after like 10 hours of concrete, like just standing on the concrete with like 30 minute breaks where half the break is just walking back to the room like you're gonna, you're the level. And I was taking every overtime I could because I didn't want to stop buying bitcoin because I was like, I'm pretty sure this bitcoin thing is going to go up. And before then I did a forex course because I'm an idiot, because I. Let me tell you when I decided to get rich. So in October, no, November of 2019, two things happened. My brother got rich. So my brother went from making $20,000 a year to making $200,000 a year in like nine months. So he, he, he, he was, he was always autistic, but he found a way to channel it. So he got into, he got really good at playing the, you know, like the card games, like the Yu Gi. Oh. Or whatever. So there are startup card games. And my brother was really good at joining these new communities, figuring out how to fuck everyone and like exploit the systems. And so he started getting involved. So he would do this over and over again. So he got invited to this discord called the Platinum Lounge, which sounds like, like a shady strip club in like northeast Philadelphia. But it's not. Everybody in the Platinum lounge was like 130, 40, 50 IQ, all like Microsoft, Google software engineers. They had one guy who worked for McDonald's who loved Bernie Sanders. He was like the mascot. Everybody else was super smart and they got him into hack reactor. Then he got into. He was in. Moved to San Francisco and then like made it. And then at the same time, my, my then girlfriend, now wife's dad got cancer and her mom had already died of cancer. This happened within a month of each other, these two experiences. And I was like, okay, let's just go for it. So I didn't know how to actually make money. Money was just something that I didn't know you could make. Like I never, it was like, you've always gotten C's in school. Then you get your first day and then you're like, how do you even make money? But I saw my brother do it and I was like, well, we're probably genetically similar. Maybe I can do something. So I did the forex And I realized the forex was, was not working. But it was so shady. You had to buy bitcoin and send to some broker so you could gamble more. Because in the US there's a limit to how much of your money you can gamble. But I was like, if I just buy bitcoin and don't touch it, it just goes up and I don't have to wake up at 1am and do the trades. The European markets with all the. So I was just buying bitcoin and then the, and then I didn't want to stop. So I was like, I don't want to get unemployment. Like I never had $10,000 before. All of a sudden I had $10,000. Your perspective shifts the more money you have. The number one reason to make money is because your brain changes when you have money. There's no way to explain why what $10,000 in the bank feels like to someone who's never had $10,000 in the bank. There's no way to explain what a hundred thousand dollars feels like liquid until you get there. And then it's like, oh, you know, and it's. You see the. They, they did a thing where a bird who's hungry never tries new food in nature. Human beings are the same way. Hungry. You don't try new food when a bird is full. They try new berries. Because it's like, whatever, I'll sleep it off. If it's poison, I'll be fine. That's how people are too. So you don't try. The more you need to try something new, the less you can see it. Just like when you're sprinting, you know, your vision tunnels in. Yeah, everything gets flat. Same thing when you're under stress. You can't see. Your, your eyesight is clouded. So you need to save money just so you can see. So anyway, so I kept buying bitcoin. I was just fucking around on Twitter and then I think, I think the do lab is like, hey, can you, can you sell? And I was like, shit, I don't know. I've always sold my own stuff. So I got into high ticket. Dude. I got into high ticket sales is like a knife fight and people need to know about this. So it's so cutthroat and it's so competitive. Do you know how many closers I know that are making $4,000 a month working 12 hour days, like selling female weight loss product? Like it's, it's, it's like 20, like maybe 5% of closers. Like I was making 15 to 20K a month, closing. But I was like 1%, like, it's, it's so hard. And the only reason I got out, I. So what happened was so I was closing, I was the only one who was selling for this weight loss for like middle aged women, like this program, whatever we coach you. And I was the only one who was selling and the marketing was fucked. So everybody I was talking to was living in the Midwest in a trailer park. And I was like, what have you done before for weight loss? And they're like, well, I, I was on crystal meth, but there were side effects so I had to get off. And I thought they were joking, but this is real. So these people had no money, so I was the only one who was selling, but I was making like 200 a week. And then my stepdad is like super wealthy, right? So he was like, listen, you're getting scammed. So he had his HR person for his company that does like military projects. She had me write up a list of questions for every offer. And these are like institutional, like I'm going to work at BlackRock interview questions. So because I'm a dickhead with nothing to lose, I posted it on the whole community board on Facebook and I was like, sales closers of the world unite. Like, you need to know your worth and this is how you don't get scammed from an opportunity. And these are the questions you need to ask. Don't just sell some Amazon store offer. So basically there were two options. One was to ban me completely. But one of the sales guys, Cody, really liked me because I was giving. It turns out that I have a mutant power. I'll explain my mutant power to you. I don't give prescriptions. Like, I don't write like the Wolf of Wall street book. I don't believe in them. I don't like, you know, the bow tie sales guy. The prospect says this, how do you respond? I think this is kind of bullshit. I can look at someone and they'll ask me a sales question and I know the exact answer. Ten times out of ten, I can tell you based on your personality, based on the customer, based on what they said. Here's what you can say and here's what this means with complete accuracy. So I started doing this for all the other salespeople because I didn't know that I had it until you asked me a question. I don't know where the knowledge comes from. It comes from an alien beaming it into my head. I can't. It just happens Reflexively. So I started doing this. So I was helping all these other salespeople make tons of money. And then the sale. And I was like. I was talking on the sales calls, like, 20, 30% of the time on the sales training. And the other sales trainer let me do it because he really liked me. So he was like, so they're like, who's this, like, worry dickhead? Like, what is this post? And everybody was coming for me on the post because they're like, I wouldn't hire you if you wrote this to my company. So I would go on his LinkedIn, I'd be like, Listen, you're a four. I would find if he was a forex trader. I was like, everything you just said is invalidated because you trade forex and you're a scammer. Shut your mouth. Take several seats. Like, I was just clapping back at everybody because I was, like, fearless. Nothing to lose. I took out, like, a $10,000 loan against, like, Bitcoin. It wasn't working out. I was like, what the fuck? I'm just gonna go off. I've got nothing to lose. So. And then. But. And then there were. So internally, they were like, who's this dickhead? And then Cody was like, oh, he's our next top 10 closer. And it came true. So they got me into the best offer. The first day, I sold 8,000. Like, the first day I had two closes, and then it was done. So. So it was a biz op for agency. And I was like, what the hell is the agency? I still don't know. Still don't know. It doesn't mean anything. It's. It's a nonsense word.

Kind of is. It's a service company.

It's just one of those words that makes people. You know how it's. It's like mixologist in hospitality. We hate that word. It's a combination of Latin and Greek. It's like a Frankenstein word that shouldn't even exist. But when we were in Princeton, so we were trying to open a bartending school in Princeton, my family. And nobody wanted to give us rental space because it's Princeton. But as soon as we said no, we train mixologists, then all of a sudden, there are all these vacancies. So it's just. There are things like. A lot of copywriting and offer writing is like that. You know how I learned offers? We were trying to get these girls, these white girls, to drink bubble tea. There was a drink that we were making with bubble tea. And bubble tea was new back then because I'm old. So we were trying to get them to drink bubble tea and they looked at it and it looked like fish eggs. Because we had a chef make it. It was clear. And they're like, what is that? And we're like, it's bubble tea. They're like, what's bubble tea? And I'm like, it's tapioca. And they're like, so what did I do? I went online and I'm like, how do you say tapioca in other languages? You know how you say it in Portuguese? Cassava. So what did we say? This drink has pomegranate infused cassava pearls. And then they all wanted it. It's the same thing. That's all offer crafting is. Yep, that's it. That's the difference between 100k a month and 5k a month is cassava pearls. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. You're like, okay, what's the price comparison? What are you benchmarking? What's the unique mechanism? You know what unique mechanism can be? Fucking rubber P90X muscle confusion. It doesn't even exist. Yeah, but it was like, oh, okay.

And then.

And once you see it, you can't unsee it. So basically. So I start closing. And then I. We took the program, obviously, and the program didn't work. And then we were like. Miles said this. Miles is like, everybody gets in from the scammer. You know what it is? It's like when the anime. Like when you first. So true.

Everyone does get in from the scammer. That's the first.

Your first experience to. The truth is always a lie. It's always a lie. The first time you saw Dragon Ball Z, it was dubbed, it was edited, the blood was taken out, the voices, the music was different, but there was like real shit there. And then you're like, all right, let me, let me, let me go down this rabbit hole. So I was like, listen, like, think about, like, we love. Who's the. The guy. I don't want to say. Who's the guy who's really popular that sells agency? It's very good looking, very young, plays tennis. Right. We can say that his advice of white labeling your entire business is a nice recipe for disaster. But everybody loves him. So, like, it's more like with people you have, like, in life. I was talking to Coach Paul about this. He's like, you have to eat the meat and spit out the bones with everything. So you have to take the good and leave the bad. It's just a. It's just an. It's an adult skill. You know how when you're a kid, your neocortex isn't developed, so you just love people or hate them? And then when you grow up, everything gets complicated. You can't stop seeing this one girl, even though she's a horrible person. Person. It's like that. And then as you become an adult, you learn to master those things. And then it's like filtering gold. You take the. You take the good and spit out the bad. So you have to do that with. Most people can't do it because they think everything is a scam or nothing is a scam. Right? You either. You're either full Coffeezilla or this is the big problem. Like, everybody sounds like a yoga teacher or an accountant. You're either emotional and vague and useless or clinical and dry and nobody trusts you. And you have to combine both in sales. That's. That's 99% of the game is being emotional. I'm like, pain plus dollar amount connected to the pain. You know, you have to be specific with both. And everybody wants to hide, but you need the whole. The whole shebang.

So something I want to touch on is like, so like, you went through this, this other program. It essentially taught you to, oh, white label every single. You're going to white label out your lead gen. Maybe you close some sales calls, you're going to white label out the fulfillment. And like, essentially what they were teaching you is to just get like $4 an hour VAs from Pakistan. But obviously now you understand that things don't work like that. There's not some magic $4 an hour VA in Pakistan who knows how to get a client significantly good results. You need to actually personally know how to get a client significantly good results. And then if you were to put employees on, you're the one who teaches them how to get significant.

You have to realize, Daniel, here's what you're missing. You're missing griftflation. So there's a griftflation area effect. Okay, so let's take crypto. Crypto. Back in the day, 2019, 2020, you would have. These extraordinarily shady companies were based in Singapore. Give us your Bitcoin. We trade it for you on. We arbitrage trade. And you get like, you put in $1,000, you get $20 back every day. And it's a Ponzi, but it's an obvious Ponzi. So what happens? It gets fancier. Now we have Three Arrows Capital we're really smart. We're hedge fund Jane Street. And then above that, then you have BlockFi, then you have FTX, then you have FTX arena, then you have Tom Brady. Who doesn't trust Tom Brady? The grip. It's not like people aren't that dumb, but what they do is you white label it to another company. The company's in California. You go on the guy. The founder's Instagram. The first five pictures. Beautiful. California. Scroll down. Pakistan, so it's not obvious, but it's Russian dolls. You open enough Russian dolls and the last one is in Pakistan or the Philippines. And that's, that's who's holding up the whole operation. And you better hope there's not a civil war, which there was, by the way, in Pakistan. So no fulfillment for a couple weeks.

Mm. So I feel like a lot of people, they'll get duped into something like that. So they'll go, they'll, they'll go that route. And I want you to kind of paint the picture of the differential between, like, you have, like, you had an agency that had clients, but they didn't get results and therefore churned. It is entirely unsustainable, but it also has the runoff effect of making you feel like shit because nobody's getting results.

Do you want, like a major compliment? I'm going to give you one of the best compliments you've ever gotten in your life. I'm going to explain to you what is completely unique about your message. So most people will say, what is. What's the Tate message? In general, hard work is a scam. Do this instead. Hustle. What's the. So hard work is either a scam or hard work. What's the Tai Lopez message? You pay all this money for the 67 steps. Tai Lopez. The grind of life is life. Read more books. It's useless, right? What you've managed to do is quantify the amount of work that you need to do to where it's mathematically understandable. And you attach a mechanism that lets you impose sufficient volume. So think about like, I'm £300 and I want to get in shape. If I just start jogging, I'm going to fall, my body's going to fall apart. Like, my knees are going to break down. This is what, like sending a cold email is with no systems, right? You're just sending a bunch of emails. How many eight figure companies do you talk to with like 80 SDRs that get two appointments a month because nothing's even getting opened? So it's not about hard work, and it's not about hustling. It's about, you are the only one who is selling a mechanism to impose sufficient volume to attain a certain result. It's very, very rare in the market. No one except you was talking this way, where you're like, this is what you have to do. This is the hard work. But you weren't saying, send a thousand emails a day. You were saying, no, you email a thousand people, half of them open it, 10% respond, 20% of those responses are positive. You'll book eight meetings, five will show up. If you're decent at sales and you have a good offer, you'll make one to. And I was like, okay, I can, I can hold that in my head. And that's what happened. So. But no one else is talking like that. So everyone else is either is either saying, you're got to see the matrix, all this nonsense, or they're saying, go to law school, work, work, work, buy the Porsche starter, Porsche. And then, boom, you're 50.

And. And then all the peripheral stuff that people don't understand. So it's kind of like you could come. You could come in to something like client ascension. It's like, if you skip the part about, like, restructuring the offer in a very particular way. VSL testimonials, case studies, augmenting it with Twitter content and all. If you skip those parts, it doesn't work. Yeah, it's like, it's, it's, it's a whole array of different things that just need to be pieced together. And when it is in this perfect alignment, only then does it work. So you see a lot of stuff. And like, obviously you're on Twitter and you'll see all these guys, they're like, just get, just get 50 domains and send 10,000 emails a day. And it's like, bro, there's so many people out here who have 50 domains. They send 10,000 emails a day and they make $0.

Yep.

And it's like, dude, all these dudes, they're talking about, oh, you do this and you put this tech stock over here and here and here. And it's like, why are you not at 100k a month then? Like, you know all of this stuff and you make no money. It's like, why is that? It's because you don't functionally understand how to get people to fucking purchase things. Like, there's a whole set of things that need to occur. It's like, obviously you have implemented it and now you've had success. And you don't need to send 10,000 emails a day. Maybe you need to send like a hundred a day. It's a completely fine.

Think about it. There's power athletes and there's strength athletes, right? Like, so you have people that have really good inbound, you have people that have really good outbound, you have people that have really good social media. But everybody needs fulfillment systems, lead generation systems, and sales systems. And it's. It's more like whatever your strengths are, once you've built up enough of padding, it just starts to completely work. So until then, it just doesn't work at all. Doesn't work at all. Doesn't work at all. And then it's like, boom. Because it's like there's a certain. Like, you feel it, right? Like, how do you write offers so well? You're very in touch with like, the reality TV monkey brain inside of you, right? And you feel the switches getting flipped. And when enough switches are getting flipped, you're like, okay, this is good. And if those switches aren't getting flipped, you're like. Because a lot of what we do, like, I work with funded startups, right? So. Or like companies that have been around for a while. And it's like, when you have really good inbound, it's like you've been married for 20 years, but you're not sexy anymore. Like, you're not going to get no hinge matches. So it's like, how do you translate an offer? Like a commoditized offer. SEO. How do you make SEO sexy? You can say, we only work with CBD. You get 30% more leads a month. You pay nothing. Like, you make it like the mechanism nobody cares about anyway. It's always like, where. Where else could the money go? Risk reversal. Make the price attractive, make it unique, make it. And. And then they're like, okay, this starts to make sense. Yeah, but it's like, but to see the matrix, I think takes like you were telling me it takes three months. I'm pretty dumb. I think it took me like four before I really got it. Like, that's why you're like, do you want to do a. A video? And I was like, no, I want to sign this big one.

So we.

We signed it and I was like, okay, do you want to. Do you want to do a thing? So. But it took that long for me to. Because you have to see it work and see it not work enough times for you to understand why. Like, because it's. It's always. Money is Always like the fifth order consequence. So many things happened before and if one of those things is missing, it's just, there's something like a link is broken in the prospect's brain and it just doesn't work.

Dude, this is, it's, it's really interesting because like this, this happens a lot with people who like, maybe get on like sales calls for client ascension. Like, there's just, there's a set of people and they, they have some like, standard like, oh, we're a full service marketing agency. Like, we're a really good business. And it's like, bro, no, you're not. Like, you, you really like, you aren't. And it's like a lot of these guys, I don't know, maybe they're like 50k a month. But it's like, dude, do you even like understand how you got to 50k a month? Like, your dad gave you your first client and then he got like, he didn't want to fire you even be. Even though you had lackluster results because it would damage the relationship with your dad. And then like, they didn't know any other marketing guy, so he just sent you over here and like none of these guys get any form of significant results. Like you don't have any testimonials or case studies showing anything of substance on your site. And it's like a lot of these guys, they'll come in because they've been in the industry for like 10, 15 years. It's like, I know what I'm talking about, dude. You really don't. It's like you were under the impression that because like, you live in this little tiny like insulated bub bubble of like your dad's colleagues or like your friend's colleagues or something that like, you magically run a, like a really good business, but you start pushing this to cold traffic, you're going to get fucking demolished. It's not going to work. And it's like a lot of these guys come in or they're just talking and they, and they just think they're like, better than you. It's like, bro, you, you don't know. You've never tried to sell Cold Traffic something before. I've seen 5,000 other people who have the same exact setup as you. You are not unique in any capacity whatsoever. And not only have I just seen the companies, I've seen their cold email campaigns. I see the responses, I see their deal flow. I know, I know what happens. I'm hyper aware of what specific offers are selling to what specific industries? Like, I know what's going to happen. And it's like, unless you flip this, flip this, flip this, flip this, flip this, it's not going to work. You're not going to get results. And it's like a lot of people that need to drop this kind of. I have a great business, like, bro. No, the. You don't. You don't have a good business unless you can predictably convert cold traffic at scale into paying customers. Your business sucks. Unless you can do that.

If you, only if you're a salesperson, because you're, when you're a closer, you're just dumb. You don't actually know anything. You know how to sell the product. You can, you can fake industry knowledge, but how do you know you're selling for a good offer or not? How many cold referrals are you getting? Not friends or family of their friends, but how many cold referrals? The reason I left my last offer even though I was making so much money is I'm like, no business can survive without referrals. It means it's a Ponzi. It's just over leveraged. People have all this crypto money. People have, stocks are going up, there's just liquidity. But as soon as that dries up, there's no leg to stand on. Every salesperson for my previous offer left. So it's, it's, that's how, you know the other thing that I really learned from, from a sales perspective, like, if you're going into clients from a sales perspective, because that was really my one strength. I was like, I know I can sell. And then you're like, all right, do cold email you. I'm sure they can figure this out. And I think those are good offers. Like, I think short form, you're probably recommending less because it's, it's getting, it's right on schedule, right? You're like, we have eight months and I think we're like four months in to like the saturation.

Isn't that so funny? I, I predicted that perfectly. I said, I know. I've seen this happen so many times. And then you just got to play with it a little bit. You got to switch this over here. You go to a different market, use a different mechanism. It's. I just, I know what to do. I know what will happen with it over the next, like three for every single thing. It's like, I've seen this cycle play.

Out so many times. Yeah. But it was, it was such a great suggestion for us because we were so jaded by having all these broken promises that we needed to see it work for ourselves first before we would even let ourselves try to sell somebody else. And then the other thing that I, that I got really good at is most of, the, most of the sales process when the numbers are high enough are happening off stage. So we got really, really good at crystallizing our sales process and just having enough content, like having enough of us on the Internet. So when people Google you, they're like, okay, these are, these are not serial killers. And then having enough of a follow through. This is actually, I think the one thing I disagree with you on because you know how like you're doing a lot of Gamma and stuff. I do the most boring like Google Doc plus Loom that I can because I want them to just like you don't want to play, like you don't want to play like music in the Porsche dealership. Like you really want them to think. So I want to make it as bland as possible. This is what I told Presley. Presley was like, I'm having trouble with these corporate types. I was like, because you're too sexy, you're too sad. They see you, they see all these fancy people you're working with, they're like, this guy really, does he have the sufficient boringness to make this. So I'm like, you just make yourself boring. You'll get it at the analytical phase. Because sales is really three things, right? It's like, is this person worth talking to? And that's why I've been putting people's LinkedIns. I know you're not supposed to put links, but I do anyway. Putting people's LinkedIns on my cold prints because they just need to know it's a person. I got that from the guy who started the hustle. The hustle, like his first huge advertising deal was like, by the way, just so you know, I'm not a serial killer. Here's my LinkedIn. And so I put there. So it's like if a homeless person gave you a $10 million lottery ticket, you wouldn't pick it up. Nothing he could say would convince you because it smells, right? So like that's how, that's how prospects are. You just have to, you have to be somebody who's worth listening to or else they won't hear anything you're saying. And that's the whole self or status thing, right? And then once and then it's an emotional process. And the emotional process is always the child puppy version of the real thing. It's the optimized system. One acoustic, beautiful like cold email concert version of the real thing, right. That's optimized for, for dopamine hits. Like we do this, we do this, we do this. Your brain thinks in threes. Three step past, present, future, mechanism one, mechanism two, mechanism three. And then there's the due diligence phase which you're selling. Like if it's a startup, here's. There's five people are going to look at it before they sign off. So you have to, you have to have details, but then you have to do the. For dummies like three minute loom for people who aren't going to click on anything. So once you can handle those, once you have the analytical phase, the emotional phase or what's the. If we're doing the Greek, like the ethos, pathos, logos, individual credibility, emotional process and then like rational, the rational filter. Once those three are nailed, like it's just 40% closes. So that's. That was kind of the fun part of going through the process. Then the extrapolation of that is the you that exists on the Internet, right? Which this is a part of. We're feeding that pendulum, right? The religion.

Isn't it nice to have a base of clients who you get results for and you feel like you actually run a sustainable and proper business?

I feel like it's impossible for clients to fail because the product, the market research alone is worth the setup. The thing that people don't understand about cold email is that you will understand exactly what people are saying about you behind your back. Because when you take out all of the fluff, all of the social proof, all of the case studies, and it's just an email and then they Google you and are you a commodity or not? Do they actually want what you're selling or not? It's like, I'm a married man, but I want to know how sexy I am. Everybody wants to know what is your actual market value. And cold email will reveal it to you faster than anything else. Cold email. The reason I like cold email is because my mom was fundraising in Israel. And in Israel it's easy to fundraise. You just walk into people's offices. It's like European, like you just walk in America. You can't do that. There's gatekeepers everywhere. But cold email can send 100 cold emails and 100 CEOs will respond. You can't do that with anything else. But you better come correct or else you're gonna get wrecked. And you will, you will Find out really quickly. So in the beginning we were like, okay, we're gonna cold email agency. And now we've become a sales training agency, a product market fit. We don't want to do these things.

Yeah, listen, like this, this goes back to like kind of what I was saying, where it's like, you need to. So like, it's just. It's just like a reflection. Like I was just saying earlier, all of these pieces need to be in place. So like, when you go to a client, like you're trying to sell their stuff, it's like they also need all of those pieces. So this is like a. This is. This is very interesting. Where any kind of service business always expands to cover multiple things if you want the client to get results. I can give you, for instance, like Brian Moncada, like, YouTube ads guy. Like, I was talking to him, he's like, yeah, dude. Like, if they don't have like setters and like an optimized sales team, it's not gonna work. It's like, so he has to do some form of a little bit of consulting on that. And it's like, yeah, bro. Like every single guy's here.

They gave us like a war. Hello? Okay, I think we're still good. Liz, you want to just let him in? Doesn't matter. We can edit around this, right? I'm just gonna.

I don't even care.

I'm just gonna leave it. Who's it. Who's gonna do the editing? We're not paying the price.

Yeah, but it always. It always expands. And. And because it's the same thing for. For every single business. It's like, again, like, you're not going to get special results unless you have a special business.

Like, actually it's. It's one of the things that Liz was saying where she's like, like, I had a. So you know Celsius. So the. The guy like the crypto that blew up. So we like, I knew the guy and I had money in there. And then I asked my mom was like, should I keep. My mom's like, no, he's a sex addict. He's crazy. Like, get your money out. He's nuts. But one of the things he said, because he was super smart, super smart scammer. So he was like, you get a dog to jump really high in. The world's like, the world's fair. And everyone goes out and they're like, how did you get this dog to jump so high? And he was like, what I did was I found a dog that could already jump really high and then I got him jump a little bit higher. And that's like, that's a lot of the game is like, you need to know which clients are gonna be really good and then you just run them up. Like that's, that's most of the game. Your, your game is not like turning because every entrepreneur, because we all have low self esteem deep down. So we always want to fix everyone. We always want to be like. Like I was talking to Andre and Andre is like, you can help your clients that are underperforming, but your attention should be with the ones that are doing really well. Because your human nature, you always want to save yourself. Like, you always want to take the little pizza place and help them make more money. Like, no, work with the hedge fund. Work with the hedge fund and get them to make 10% more and that's millions of dollars. Like you have to work with winners and help them win more if you want to make money. And this is something that everyone eventually realizes. It's kind of sad, right? It's like the end of the Disney movie. Like it's. Your illusions are shattered a little bit, but that's just how it is. Like you have to take the killers and help them kill more. And then for everybody else, you still want them to be okay, but you understand that like a good business, like a good agency. What was Brooke saying? He's like, the best way to run an agency is to have five or six really good clients. That and you're just like running them up. That's what Ben's doing, right? Ben Bader?

Yeah. It's the best way to do it. It really actually is the best way to do it. It's just so much. But you can't do that until you know how to do it. So it necessitates that you're going to work with those garbage clients and you're going to see what works, what doesn't. What works, what doesn't? What works, what doesn't. It's a gradual process until you fully, like, really understand hard. Like, yes, this specific person I can run up and you just know it. Like you see it and you know it. Yeah, that's going to work really well.

Yeah, exactly. It's like every lawyer goes through their like pro bono phase where they want to save the world and then they realize they're like, okay, this is actually not healthy. Let me just make more money and give to some charities. It's gonna be more effective that way. I have a question for you. If we're. If we're running to the end, I don't want to, like, if you have more, we can do more.

I got like, three more minutes. Let's go.

Okay. Sweet. Miami has Scarface, South Beach, Miami Vice. Tampa has Magic Mike xxl. What movies are set in Tampa? Why Tampa? Explain it to me. I moved to Miami so I could be around people like you. And then you went and moved to Tampa.

It's super. It's. It's super chill is what it is. And then, like, Andre Christian Dan moved here. It's just super chill. I like it. It's not. It's not loud. It's just. It's very. And there's. It's like, coming up, like, if you go, like, downtown Tampa and like, you go over to, like, like some of those apartment buildings over there, it's like, there's hella people like us like this over there. It's, like, really interesting. But there's a lot of people in Tampa now. Tampa's. Tampa's getting bigger. I think in five years, Temple will kind of be like. In terms of, like, people, like, I guess from like, Twitter and whatnot. I think a lot of them will just inherently move to Tampa. It's super chill. It's like a really, really nice city. I. No one ever comes to Tampa and says, like, oh, I don't like this place, like, ever. It's just super chill.

Yeah, it's laid out really well. It's a little bit like Fort Lauderdale, but it doesn't feel like a suburb.

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's like, really nice. I like it a lot. And there's this. It's huge. It's actually two cities. So Tampa and St. Pete are two separate cities, but they're right next to it. You can see one from the other. Like, I can look out of my window and see St. Pete. It's.

It's.

It's actually just a dual city. So it's really interesting.

Well, and you guys get to have a little bit of seasons too. Whereas in. In Miami, it's. Yeah, it was cold when we went.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah. Any. Any other. Anything else that we did, we miss any. Is there anything else that you want to know that I was this useful? Do you think this is useful to, like, people that are, like. If you're like, 30 something, you're like, watching this and you're, like, stuck in a corporate job, you have, like, responsibilities. You can just leave. This is what I want people to know. You can just leave. You Know you know where I learned this? This, I learned this from something totally different. There's a guy called the Bitcoin family on like Instagram, and the guy he was interviewing, he was getting interviewed with some guy. The guy's like, how did you do it? How'd you just leave? And the guy's like, you know how you go on vacation? He's like, yeah. He's like, it's that easy. He was like, you just leave. You just leave and no one cares. No one cares. Like, you can just go and your family be like, ah, whatever. But like, you have to be selfish because you can lose your entire life and not help your family. Like, one of the things that I learned is that a little bit of money will go further than a lifetime of your devotion. Like, so we were trying to get my dad out of the business for so long because every time there was money, you would just take it, right? You would just find a way. So we're trying to get him out for so long. And then my stepdad is like, I'm loaded. Let's go to the synagogue. Who's the best lawyer, who's in front of the Supreme Court, wrote him a big check, everything was resolved. That's the power of money. So it's, you have to be selfish if you spent a long time like, like I took care of my brother, I got my brother out, got him to Japan when the divorce was going on, did his high school there. He set up, he's doing really well financially now. My mom set up, but I was still fighting the same battles from the past because you don't know how to stop, but you can just literally stop. Your customers don't care. You think you're, but it feels like they do. That's the weird thing about human beings. Let me tell you, like a weird thing that I've discovered. Have you ever been with, have you ever had a near death experience? We're talking to Andre about this on the Bible study. And the thing that bothers you the most is the small obligations. I remember I almost died in a car accident. I was supposed to return these books to some girl and I was like, I'm so sorry. I was in a car. That's human nature. Our human nature is like these little day to day moments of life. Like, I had a guy, one of my clients is like going through an instant divorce. He was like, oh, I can't make the call tomorrow, my wife's moving. I just found out it was 2:00am I'm so sorry. I can't make the call. Like I care. But that's how human beings are. That's why people stay in the dead end job. Why do you stay in the dead end job? Because you have to get coffee for Sheila. You get Sheila coffee every morning. That's the reason. And they don't. It doesn't matter. Realke has a poem about this, the poet. He's like, everything here feels like it desperately needs us, but it actually doesn't. Like you have one life to live. That's. That's when somebody, like, gets really successful, like my brother. And then somebody has a health scare at the same time. Then you're like, oh, it actually doesn't matter. So just go for it. Just. Just go for the jugular. What's. At least it'll be fun. So that's. That's my message.

So thank you for coming on, brother. I'm gonna leave links to all Ori stuff in the. In the description. Don't leave the thing just yet. I'll stop the recording. Okay, thanks, brother.