Getting Clients, Guarantees, Scaling, Offers, Systems, Lead Generation, Marketing Agencies, Selling

All right, we're live all of a sudden in Daniel's penthouse.

Welcome to my living room. The top four of top floor, downtown Tampa, Florida.

Exactly. If you know about this, I mean, everyone just thought you kind of just like live in a cave and you write emails. But hey, not a bad place. You did. Okay, yeah.

For context, this isn't actually my living room.

Just.

Just want to make sure everyone aware of that. But I'll just buy the whole building to compensate for it in a couple.

Exactly. Yeah. It's. It's really so simple.

So fucking simple.

So now we have the weekly cookouts, which I'm really excited about. This is our first, you know, first it was limited to the Tampa boys, but now we got some of the Miami crew, some maxing on the balcony. It's a pretty good thing. When are we having a client ascension cookout with everyone? Just like whole balcony, we just flood the building.

So obviously you came to the last client ascension event. And I very quickly learned that if you have an event with somewhere around 100 or more people, it's the biggest pain in the ass of all time. And it costs like to rent out the Marriott and do all this stuff. And it ended up costing like $48,000 or something like that. And we weren't charging a lot of money for the tickets, but it was like the, the dumbest they would do, bro, they charge us like three grand for the water. Literally $3,000 of the boss water bottles. Like, bro, are you kidding me? They like, they forgot some stools and then like put on the bill, like an upcharge for the stool school. Almost to the point where I've kind of sat here. I'm just like, dude, would it not make like literally financial sense to buy like a two million dollar house in St. Pete, Florida and just hold masterminds there? Like from like a. From a totally financial perspective, I were to have like three, four client ascension events a year, I was like, that would be an actual savings of like almost a quarter million dollars. So it's like, I know for a fact the mortgage payment is the quarter million dollars on the house. So it's like, that's like one of those unique situations where it's like you could actually end up producing more money for that. For the holding of an asset like that.

Yeah, yeah. No, I like the mansion idea. We had a few. It's some brainstorming about it. I was like, when's the next event? He's like, well, we're not doing at the Marriott because all the headaches we went through last time and we're not doing it in my penthouse slash living room slash apartment. So why not just get a ranch, Montana, St. Pete, wherever, just throw it there. Just like makes sense. What do you, what do you see that looking like? I know you mentioned like you want to keep it small, but you have other thoughts. You want to make it this like, mass thing. Like what's, what's your vision for the next client session event?

So as you, as you scale farther and farther, you start to really look in and you look at the other people. It's like, all right, the guys who are doing 3 million a month, like, how specifically are their offers structured? And it's always, like, it's always going to kind of come into three different business segments, right? So as a for instance, like Cole Gordon. Cole Gordon does this thing where he'll train people to be either closers or appointment setters. And then he has a business segment where he will place those closers or appointment setters inside another person's business. So that's a B2B segment. And then there's a secondary B2B segment which is a mastermind that has four in person events per year. I think it's around like 68 grand a year or something like that. So that logistically makes sense for Client Ascension to do the same thing. Because we're, we're, we're tangentially related to kind of what he sells. He does appointment setting and like sales and stuff. We do cold email, we do like cold outbound prospecting. So, okay, I can go Whip up a B2C side, train people how to be commission only Cold emailers, augment Client Ascension offer as it currently exists right now. Add on the placement of commission only appointment setters and as people elapse through Client ascension, they get results. Then they'll probably ascend to a mastermind and arise into a situation where it's like, yeah, we're going to have four mastermind meetups a year and one of them is going to be at my $3 million St. Pete mansion. So let's. So that's how I see this elapsing and how this goes. So it's like in terms of events, like, if we were going to do another one, I'm just gonna charge a lot of money because it's a pain. It's a pain. It's, it's not fun to plan that. It really just isn't. So it's like if I'm gonna do that again, then I'm gonna make sure I'm financially compensated and really like in relation to how much of a pain it is.

Yeah, it's like you always say, you know, hire to your clients, you just naturally get them better results.

Simple.

What has been the biggest challenge with you? Client Ascension is just, the community has just exploded, I think ever since the event. And just in general it's been an upward trajectory. What's been the biggest challenge? Scaling that while also maintaining client results. Because you've emphasized the idea of clean scale. You want people, you want to grow it, but you don't want to do it at the expense of people feeling like they're not getting the attention deserve. Like what's been the biggest challenge with doing that?

Yeah, we, we don't have a problem getting people results ever. We have a problem trying to get people to execute the things we're telling them to do. So everything that currently exists in all efforts, literally 100% of all labor power inside of Client Ascension is trying to get people to just execute the things we are telling them to do. So it's like now we've got like customer success managers and then sourcery. Sourcing the customer success managers was really difficult because you have to be like, you got to kind of understand what's going on like in this industry while like simultaneously doing this full time job, like understanding what's going on here. So that was really difficult. But Andre was weeding the thing on that. So now we got three of those. That just makes life tremendously more easy. But it's like this, this literally always happens, dude. Like there's, there is no situation where someone comes into Client ascension does exactly what we not only tell them to do, but give them. We literally make all their 3,000 prospect list of cold emails, we write the scripts for them, we give them the software to do it. And even then, like even then after you've paid to be in Client Ascension and you have been on a silver platter handed all of these assets that some percent of people quite literally still will not execute the thing. And it's a testament that kind of goes back to like the concept of low quality client versus high quality client. All of the clients who are not on payment plans always 100% of time execute everything precisely as it is given to them. Always. The only people who ever lag, well, this and this and this and we're going to do this and like, well what about this? And they're asking just like questions just don't matter. It's always someone who's on a payment plan every single time. And then I've been asked questions sometimes, dude, you could probably get so many more conversions if you, like, allowed people to, like, finance this and had some kind of, like, financing program where they can pay, like, over the course of 36 months and using a credit company. It's like, no, no, you don't understand. I don't want people who don't have money in the first place. I don't want you inside at all. And that's a concept that people really need to understand. So you could just make people do payments. No, like, you suck. Like, you're not a good client. I don't want you.

It's like if your client ascension subscription is the equivalent of a mortgage, shouldn't be in the program. That's what it sounds like. I mean, I think that's a good philosophy in general because you look at, like, even the energy of the group. Right. I'm in client ascension. Little testimonial here. When you go on these calls, there's probably personalized attention. And not only are you interacting with the coaches of the people on there, but you're interacting with the other students within the group, right? And if you allow these people to come in and they're asking these. These questions on the call and saying all these stuff, that stuff that just like, doesn't make sense. It's like, that slows other people down because they're on these calls, they have actual questions related to, like, you know, they're getting. I don't know, they're following up with someone on email. They need help with this specific problem. Then you got this other person asking, well, cold email is pretty saturated. Like, are you sure that works? Are you sure I should post content? It's like, bro, like, why? Why are you here?

Yeah, I mean, like, you say, like, the energy drink market is saturated. Like, I'm drinking a red Boy, everything's saturated for people who don't know what they're doing, like, literally everything. So it's like you can come up with some, like, I don't care if you have all the money in the world. If you're an unsophisticated owner, like, you just don't have any concept of how to run anything. I still don't want you in here. It's just like, exactly like what you were saying. It's. They. They're going to get on calls, they're going to say dumb stuff, and it's like, too difficult to help them work. And the problem with a lot of These guys, maybe they run some program that's kind of similar to Client Essential. They run any, any program of any kind whatsoever. They're more interested in acquiring clients than they are with maximizing the LTV of clients. I have one job and one sole job only. I want to get a client into client ascension and I never want them to leave. Ever. I am optimizing for people with a high LTV solely because one, I don't want to deal with you. If you're like a small, like you just don't know anything. Like you're just like annoying. And it's like you get on like a call for client attention. It's like this is kind of, this is like literally like we're like trying to find a culture fit. Like if we don't, if we don't like you, I don't care. Like if, if we just don't like you, you're not allowed in. It doesn't matter if you have the money, doesn't matter if you want to join, if you're just like, not if you're not a good person or you're just like annoying, like you just can't get in. Like it's, it's. And you have. These are, is your small things that, that optimize the company. Because it's like I have a whole community that's going to be exposed to you. If people don't like you, then you're just going to like taint the whole thing and it's just not going to be good anymore. So you have to be extremely protective over like what's happening. You have to like really think three, four, five steps ahead of things. And a lot of guys are just trying to sign as many people and get as much front end revenue as conceivably possible with absolutely no attention to the back end of any kind. And it's like, bro, I. 50% of people with client extension, when they finish the first six months, renew like half. Half of them, which is unheard of. Yeah, that is absurdly high. As are the average person of clients. It's only been like a year and a half or around there. But it's like so many people have like they stay for a year or more like this. You need to optimize for clients who stay with you for a long time. Even, even like you do my shorts right? Like you literally edit my stuff and like, I don't know how long we've been working together now for like seven months or.

Yeah, like four or five.

Yeah, something like that. And it's like, there, I'm probably going to be your client for a long time. Like, you know what I mean?

Yeah. And that's huge. I think especially with done with you, that's really, really important. I think that's a niche that we're seeing pop up more and more. And we talked about this too, like, literally before the podcast. Like, people, there's two, two things about this I want to mention. So number one, we're done with you clients. Whether that be coaching or like more, you know, me and Cam, obviously we shoot with clients. We help them like with videos and all that stuff. It's like we're working with you and we're communicating with you on a daily basis. If you're going to be a pain in the ass, it doesn't matter how much extra revenue that's going to bring for the cost of the headaches. You know what I mean? It's like risk, reward. It's like, yeah, like we make another whatever per month, but you're just going to drag us down. And that, that, oh, that spills over into our other work for other clients and it drains our energy. It's like, like, we're not gonna work with you if we can't have lunch with you. And another side segment I want you to touch upon with the done with you and people just being stubborn as well. And, you know, you'll, you'll have students, I bet, where you'll tell them, like, yo, be flexible with your offer. Everyone has different needs. This person may want to handle this step of the process. You have to respect that and not step on their toes. Like, like, talk to me about that. Like, why are people so stubborn about adjusting their offer accordingly to client needs?

So, yeah, I was, I was explaining this last week, actually. It was because, like, we were talking about like guarantees or like people saying like, well, like, I was on a call here and the client said they wanted this, but, like, that's not a part of my offer. And then I'm sitting here and I'm like, well, like, do you know how to do that? And he's like, yeah, why didn't you just sell it to them? He's like, well, it's not a part of my offer. I'm like, your offer is not some like cut in stone thing. And there's absolutely zero wiggle room. Is like, what you guys need to understand is that you don't just spin something up and it's like, that's all you get. You're not a SaaS company. You're, you're a service company. Like, it's like every sales process is dirty. Like every sales call is dirty. It's never going to like, there's no deal where it's, oh, just I'm only going to do it like this. If you want to change it like that. I'm not working with you. And say this is, this is. What's wrong with these guys is that they don't, they don't have any kind of conception of like wiggle room. And as like an example, say someone, I don't know, say you run like a, you run a TikTok ads agency and like you'll, you'll make UGC ads for people and then you'll, then you'll run the ads for them and then like you're talking to a client and they're basically saying, yeah, we already have a, like, we already have a media buyer. We're kind of just looking for the ads. And then dudes will literally go like, oh well, I do the media buying. Sorry, like not even, yeah, not even understanding the fact that they could just segment out the part where they get the ads and like actually effectively charge the same amount of money. And like, there's no con. Because what guys do with these offers is they take a high income skill and try to fit it into a niche and like force it onto a niche as opposed to like speaking to a niche and extracting specifically what they're asking for. So it's like dudes will. Or they'll start with a niche and try to force a high income skill onto the knees.

Oh yeah, yeah.

So like, my God. Yeah. So like what will happen is dudes will pick like, like E Com as an example. Oh well, what can I sell? E Com stores? Oh well, they do Facebook ads. I'll go sell Facebook ads. Unaware of the fact that that's quite literally the most saturated offer to the most saturated market of all time. But what they don't understand and if they just pay attention to what people are saying on the call is you start to extract things. Like for instance, what is absolutely ripping right now is creating UGC ads for ecom brands. That's what they're buying. And it's like you can't just come up here and just like come up with some random thing. It's like you, you have to sell what people want in the way that they want it. So it's kind of like, like I'll give you an example of like Scott Millard. So like Scott, he's like a. He's like a video guy. And like he. You guys are familiar with him a lot. He's a homie. And he lives here in Tampa too. But he was, he was. When he first joined Client Ascension, he was selling this unlimited video packages. He does like, like animated, like, Sass explainer videos and stuff. It's an Unlimited video package. $5,000 per month. You get unlimited requests. And I was like, scott, nobody wants an unlimited video subscription. They don't. They just want a specific amount of videos. Like, they just do. So he changed his offer to that. And now like, dude just hit 40k a month. He was literally making like 5 grand a month, like 6 months ago. And it's like, sometimes it's that simple. And it's like just. You have to know what people. You have to pay attention and just like go through those dirty sales processes, like I was saying. And like, what specifically do you want? And then what you'll find is like, people start asking for the same thing and they want it in the same way. So, oh, I'll just morph the offer into that. And then things evolve over time. And this is why you see people who, they have products and always turns into like a 2.0 and then like a 3.0 because, like they're evolving it and that's like the correct thing that you should do.

Yeah. Market sophisticate, we, we've had to adjust with our agency. Right. Because saw everything, sir. I will make you 60 videos per month with just zero. And it's changing, bro. It went from two hours. We joke. It's like it went from two hours of your time to 0.2 seconds.

Yeah, I mean, that's funny because I made that angle like three months ago and it's like all these dudes on. On Twitter. I actually wrote an email about this. It was really interesting. And basically the gist of what I was explaining in the email was that what you guys are trying to do is you. You have, you have like, no industry secrets secrets. You have no concept of how to get people results, and you have no client results in the first place. So what you do is you rely on vague value propositions that include the mechanism. And in this case, the mechanism is short form content. As a service, I'll do short form content with just two hours of your time. I literally made that. And then what happens over time is you get results for clients and you do things over and over and over again. And now you, you uncover secrets. Like, you uncover like, like how to get results for specific things. So you morph from selling a mechanism into selling a system that just so happens to use a mechanism. Okay, and this is what I was explaining. Like these guys, what they'll do, it's like, oh, I'll just do this with Google Ads, it's like, no, like you, you need a system. You need to create a unique way you do something. And like you uncover secrets and you find out that there's context in everything. Like for instance, with the short form, it's like if you've ever done any kind of short form at all ever, like, you've probably learned it's slightly difficult to turn short form into conversions. So you need to augment this by having a video sales letter on your landing page. You need to know how to do DM sales. You need to have long form content. Like, you ultimately need to put every piece of the funnel inside the offer. It's like that's literally how expansion you, you always arise to, you having to do more to serve the client needs. There's always an upsell, it will never end. There's always another thing to sell somebody.

Yeah, that's a really good point, I think, especially with the short form service, like, you saw so many people. It's just like the offer keeps sophisticated, right? It's like first it was like repurposing, right? And that was a big thing. Like, oh, I'll make clips for you, right. But then other people started filming with people and you started targeting other people that didn't have existing video content. Right? Because most of the people, people who already had long form, they had a short sky. So it's like, oh, let me go. Like, try to target people that don't have it, right? And then you have this wave, right. Of the 60 pieces of content per month with 2 hours of your time. And it's like, now there's going to be another layer of sophistication that. But the big thing is, and you talk about this, and I think it's important to reiterate, it's like 90% of people won't even stick to one thing for six months. So it's like if you can just actually do the thing well for six months, it's just everyone gets weeded out and they move on to the next thing. Right? The next thing, whatever that may be. What looks like in, you know, a year from now.

Yeah. So the reason why things take six months to work is because people only buy stuff from you if you have results. They only, you only get a Lot of sales. If you have a lot of results, like, you incrementally get more and more sales the more and more results you have. So what people need to understand is that everything will take six months. And the reason why is because you need six months to acquire results in the first place. And to acquire results, you need to become competent in the thing in the first place. So that's why there is this lag. That is the sole and only reason why it takes long for things to work is because you need to get the results. And then what happens is I'll get some guys who come into client ascension. They have, like, a lot of customers, like, they're a big business, and they've been in business, I don't know, like 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years. And there's like, no testimonials, no results, no social proof of any kind on the. On the business. And I'll tell them, I'm like, how many customers do you have? It's like, oh, like, we've worked with 642 people. And I'm like, yo, that's a lot. I'm like, do you get them really good results? It's like, yeah. Like, this guy went from selling his products in his garage to. And then he started working with us, and he's been our client for two years. And then he. Now he has four warehouses, does $30,000 a day. Like, he lives in a mansion now. And. And he has a bunch of kids and they go to private school, and like, he goes on vacations all the time now. And I'm like, why is that not on your landing page? Like, why is this not on video? Look, because what I'm trying to explain to them is you got such good results here, but unless you put it on the landing page, it might as well not even exist. It didn't happen unless it's on the landing page. You did not get any results unless they are clearly and vividly displayed on the Internet. And this is what people don't understand. Every single service, marketing agency, B2B business coaching, core software, absolutely any kind of B2B thing of any kind, ever. You grow the business by looping testimonials and client results. That's it. Your soul and only function as a business owner is the production of case studies and then the displaying of those case studies, pushing traffic to those case studies which begets more customers, which begets more case studies. And it is an upward spiral loop always. It's your only job.

Yeah, 100%. And one thing that I took away from there was, it's like, dude, I actually thought of this analogy. I was riding bikes at like 2 in the morning. I was like, I'm putting this on my notes for a later tweet and I guess it'll be here on video before I put it in a tweet format. But I almost viewed it as like, it's like a girl that wears like super baggy clothes to school or even a guy, it doesn't really matter. But like they were baggy clothes. They're wearing sweatpants, they're like greasy, they didn't shower right. They're not looking good, they're not looking spiffy. And maybe they have like a great physique or a great body, but it's just like, bro, like you're wearing like, you're wearing a hoodie and sweatpants. Like no one can even see that.

Yep.

And you expect them to know. Yeah, expect them to know that you're this great looking guy or girl. It's just like no, like no one. You're not even showcasing it. So like that's a really good point right there. And I actually want to keep touching on this because I think it's a really good topic that a lot of people like look for. Is like you almost have to be ahead of the market. Right. It's a game of cat and mouse. Like you'll spin something up. Like I put out a thread today about like our process, like how we nurture client relationships and what that process looks like. I bet there's some fucking dude that's about to put that on this landing page right now. Bar for bar.

Yeah. So what happens is, is a lot of guys get caught up in like market sophistication, but the, the. So it's from Eugene Swartz. Yeah, Eugene Schwartz. And at the highest level of sophistication, people only buy the thing because of the results you have driven and your personal brand that's at the highest level. So like the most people are in the market. Imagine the most saturated service all selling to the same exact market. Like it's the most saturated thing of all time. Imagine it, somebody's still making money and the person who's making the money is the person who has the best client results. So what happens is you can take any service, any market, anything, and you can just single handedly sophisticate the whole thing right to the end. You just go right to the end where it's just results and this is what you need to do. And this is what I've always done with every single thing. And it was not even like I wasn't even aware of this until like back reading Eugene Schwartz's stuff and I'm like, oh, in hindsight, like the reason why I spun up a cold email course, sold it to 6,000 people and made a million dollars from a course and then made a bunch of software apps and then, and then made client Ascension and I've made like $7 million doing it is solely only because I just got a ton of testimonials. There is no other reason why that happened. There's no single other reason why that happened. And it's like someone could say like even if somebody had like a product that was incrementally better than mine, it's like, it doesn't matter. I have more testimonials so I'm gonna make more money than you. Nothing. Whoever, the person who wins has the most client results and testimonials. That's it. Like there's, there's no wiggle room. There's no like, well what about this? No, whoever has the most results wins. That's it. Like your conversion rate goes up, your call, but your call close rate goes up, your click through rate goes up, your opt in percent goes up. Like everything, every single metric improves with every single new client testimonial or case study you add. It's just, it's just stacking credibility continuously over and over and over again. There's no other trick but like, there's no like special hack to like make the business work better. It's like at the end it's all going to be sophisticated. You're just going to get more and more and more competitor, you're never going to have less competitors. So you need to single handedly like push everyone else out of the market and just take all the customers because you have all of the results. That's the only way it works.

Yeah, that's a really good point. I think people obsess over like they just think, oh, like if I copy this and maybe I say this is another thing I really like. You put out a YouTube video about this, about the DM scripts and this has been a really, really hot topic lately. DM scripts. And your whole argument is it's not really about what you say. It's literally just bringing them from the DM to your profile to your landing page and being congruent. I want you to rant about that and explain what people fail to grasp. Because writing a Shakespeare poem and then pitching Short form is not the reason they're buying your short form.

Yeah, so the reason why maybe you send a thousand DMs and you get one customer. Like, the actual reason why that you didn't, like, sign 50 people is because everybody has a conversion window. Nobody just wants to do short form right now. Like. Like every human on the planet doesn't want to just do it right now. That's not a thing. So what happens is you send a DM, and now I have 114,000 followers, and now people will say no. People with a lot of followers don't check their DMs. Bullshit. I check my DMs. Like, everyone checks their DMs. Any person with any amount of followers, they go to the request. If they say they don't, they're lying. Like, they just are. Everyone sees every single dm. You know what you do is you check the DM and you go to their profile. Like, maybe, like, you'll kind of get a snippet of what it says. Then you go to the profile. If your profile is sports, you're retweeting football or like me or just random stuff is not congruent to business. Like, any kind. It's like, all right, well, just like, automatic now. It's like, your stuff just doesn't have anything to do with. With this. Now say your profile is about business. You got some tweets, like, actually, like, about this sphere, Then your. Your. Your landing page will get clicked. If you don't have a landing page automatic. No, not happening. Like, you didn't even put in the time to make a landing page. Not happening. So if you do have one, it gets clicked. Do you have a video sales order? Nope. Gone. But you didn't even put enough effort into do that. All right, maybe you do have a video sales alert. Do you have. Do you have client results? No. Okay, you don't have client results. Do you, at minimum, have examples of what you would do? No. Gone. Not even gonna consider you in any. In any capacity. Every time I've ever bought something from somebody who was a beginner or has no other client, this literally happened to me, like, two weeks ago. Well, I'll tell you exactly what happened. I got pitched about, hey, bro, like, if you. If you, like, make your vso, like, a lot more edited, it's gonna, like, work out a lot better. And what he did is he didn't just say that. He took a minute clip from my VSL and then, like, hyper edited it. And I was watching him like, yo, this is really good. But now my context of this and this goes back into like the positioning of his offer. I'll explain what I was thinking. My, my thinking of this is like, well, I don't want to have to pay this guy to hyper edit this vsl because I might make a new vsl, right? So now like a couple weeks later, at this point I was trying to, I wanted more YouTube ads and I'm like, I'm going to try out this, like, I want some like hyper edited stuff. I'm like, oh, that one guy. Yeah, that one guy who sent me that, that was like really good. And I forgot his name and I just, I, I didn't follow him. So I went in the messages. I was just scrolling in my DMs. I was, I was looking for it for like 10 minutes and I found it. I was like, hey, can you edit me YouTube videos? Like, I want, I want to do this, I want this many. Like how much will it cost? He gives me a price and I just pay it. So this is an example of this guy didn't have any client results. I don't think he's worked with anyone. But he at minimum put in the bare minimum effort to show me what he would do. This is what I'm saying is that guys try to prospect for clients and they'll even do the bare minimum. So now I, at this point, like I'm gonna, I'm probably gonna end up paying this guy like over the course of like I don't know, a year, maybe like 10k, 20k literally just like editing videos and stuff, just like random editing stuff like this. And then the other thing I want to explain is that his original positioning of the offer was just the wrong thing. Like that's a valid objection. Hey, I'll edit your VSL is like, well people like kind of change their VSL a lot. So it's just a different positioning. So now he could still sell like editing the vsl, but now you can hit other angles for someone. Like if you were prospecting someone and say he was leading with the hey, I'll edit your VSL offer, you don't get responses and then you can do up with them. Hey, I also do YouTube ads. Here's an example. And now he's like posting tweets of like the examples of the YouTube ads you made. I'm like, yeah, like really? He asked me for a testimonial. I was like yeah, like good job. Like you're clearly listening to the stuff I Say, and I'm like, now, like, when I give this guy a testimonial and like, I retweeted. Now he's like posting videos of me, Hey, I made this. And it's like, I work with Daniel Fazio and Client Ascension and. And I retweet that on Twitter. This guy's gonna get a ton of business. You literally just will. Because he asked for the testimony. It was one. He. It wasn't just like, he just made the thing and like, went dark. It's like he's proactively trying to build this company. He's putting a lot of effort and like, the dude, like, when I was working with him and he was like, explaining why he was making specific edits, it wasn't just, like, edited for no reason. Like, he was explaining to me, hey, I'm gonna. I want to put this here because this will happen. This happened. Could you, like, do this real quick? Fill me this 5 second thing? So I injected here. I think it's gonna work a lot better. I'm like, all right, bro. And it was very clear to me that he was proactive and very much attempting to make sure that I'm getting a quantifiable positive return. The money I paid him. So it's like, dudes will run a business and they just like. It's like they don't even care. It's like, you, you, you don't even care, and that's why you don't make much.

Yeah. And I think that's a really good way to overcome first movers advantage. Like, first movers advantage. Like, if you're not in that situation and you're coming late to a market, like, you really need to go out of your way to do stuff like that. I'll give you a great example. This actually happened to me recently. So there's this guy that's been in my DMs trying to pitch me on my landing page a few actually. And yeah, my dog should I have to fix that, My boy here is going to help me with it. But he initially, he, like, explained, like, the things he would change. First of all. Right. So he broke down for me. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Whatever. My website's pretty bad pitching. His price will be like, you know, whatever. Like, I just, I have to see, like, how this works out with this other guy that's trying to help me. And I go on my Twitter and he tags me in this thing. It's like, here's what I do for the clip creators Landing page and he posted like two different shots in Jim. I was like, this actually looks pretty good and so I might work with him. But like, even that extra mile, like, I'm sure he signed plenty of people doing stuff like that. And it's a warm lead specifically, which is really smart, right? It's not just somebody who's not, who's not going to buy a service. It's people that express interest. Then maybe they lost him in the dms and it's just like, hey bro. It's a creative way to follow up and be like, sir. It's not like, sir, sir. Like, please, please let me, let me edit your landing page. It's like a very proactive way to do it and it's providing value and it's saying like, I actually want to work with you. Right?

It's, it's, it's all these dudes who, they just want to, they want to use the new Twitter auto Twitter DM software. They want to roll up a thing and like magically get clients. Those guys never win. They never, ever, ever win. Like, you just want, you just want everything to be so easy. You don't want to work at all. You want to. No manual process. Everything needs to be automated. It's like dudes, they're like legit trying to like automate a system that doesn't even work. It's like you're just employing automation everywhere and it's like it doesn't even work. Like what you were doing just doesn't work. Like, why are you trying to automate everything?

Yeah, and that's huge, I think especially like when you're coming from that place of like, I don't have anything to offer you and you expect to use automation or some like some specific line is going to save. Like, no, it doesn't work. I mean, when I started, even when I started, you know, pitching short form people, when it was like not as sophisticated, saturated, whatever you want to call it, like I would make an effort to send samples. I feel like that's a bare minimum now with that kind of service or things in general. And one question I have for you is like, regardless of what that service is, like, I don't know, maybe it's like email marketing for e comm brands, which is also hella saturated or something else that you definitely don't have first movers advantage to. Like, how can someone in that position sign clients and catch up to people that are already crushing it when they don't have the results and testimonials do they really just have to go out of their way to do free work? Is that the solution in the beginning?

Yeah. So like, the difficulty of how hard it is to sign a client decreases with every case study or testimonial you get. Every single one you get. It gets easier and easier and easier because you have to think of it like this, and this is what people understand, is it hurts to lose $100 more than it feels good to gain $100. So when you are marketing, 70 to 80% or more of your material needs to be about risk mitigation. You need to be explaining in the things you put as marketing material needs to, in the eyes of the prospect, decrease the probability that they're going to lose money. So there's two ways to do this. One is by guarantee, you have a guarantee. If I don't get the specific result, you don't pay. And second is by perception. And by perception, what I mean is testimonials or case studies. And now there's a ladder of which of these work best. What works best is if the client is on video and it's very clear, you know what their business is. Like, it's linked, it's them, it's their face, their full name, it's very transparent. And they specifically state how much money they made or result they got and directly attribute it to you. So there is no way someone can say, oh, it's faked.

Right?

Right. On the Internet, you are default a scammer until proven otherwise. Every company, every offer, people are getting pitched again, cold emailed over here, here, here. Like, dudes are, dudes are literally sending cold emails from a Gmail. No website. Their, their name. Google doesn't even break, like raw dogging, like precisely. Absolute nothing. Like nothing. And they think it's going to work or they're doing the same on their DMs. No website, no nothing. There's no transparency, nothing exists. Again, they really actually think that's going to work. It's almost as if I don't even know how you would ever arise into the situation where you would think that there would be any chance that could possibly work ever. Like, how would you even think that would.

Let me just, like this, this random guy emailed me. Let me just like, like book a call with him and send him $5,000 even though he doesn't, he doesn't have a website. But like, okay, I'll take a chance on him. I'm like, we were doing like, you know, $6,000 a month. I'll definitely pay him 5,000 to try to save the business.

It's. It's really incredible to me. And, you know, it was. It doesn't take a genius to understand this. And I kind of want to relate this back to, like, when I was, like, a super beginner. Like, I mean, this is my first business. It was like the Instagram growth agency. I was not good at marketing, but I just wasn't a dumb ass, right? So, like, let me explain to you what I did. I found five people, and I said it was just basic. Like, if I want to get people to pay me money, they probably want to see that I actually know how to do it. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna go find five people, I'm gonna do it for them for free, and then I'm gonna get them results. So that's what I did. I found five people, and I did their Instagram growth for three months. I got a before and after screenshot, and then right when I had the before and after screenshots, I started asking people for money. And it was this plan. I'm gonna get you between 300 and 500 followers a month, and if it doesn't work, you don't pay. And this one, between 500 to 1,000 followers a month, and if it doesn't work, you don't pay. And this was, like, the reason why I did that was because I didn't want to arise into a situation where, like, if I didn't get the result, they, like, wouldn't get their money back because I just didn't want people, like, going on the Internet, like, calling me a scammer. You know what I mean? It was just like, all right, well, if I can't get the result, I just refund you. And now, in hindsight, now that I think about it, like, I had client results and a guarantee, and I got the. When I started, like, asking people for money for it, I got it to 12k a month as I was 20 years old. Yeah, it was like 12k a month in three months. And I was like, now that I look back at it, I'm like, no. Like, yeah, of course you did. Like, it was like, it was a good offer with the money back, guarantee and proof. Like, no. Like, yeah. And it's like, now what dudes would do is they think, like, oh, that won't work for me. I'm like, dude, that's the only thing that works. Like, nothing else works. It's. It's, like, really hilarious to me where it's like, People will be like, well, why am I. Well, how can I get more clients? I'm like, well, get more results. Or like, put a guarantee. And they're like, well, I don't have any results and I don't have a guarantee. Like, you're like, good luck. Like, good luck. There's nothing else to do. It's. It's those two. Like, there's no other thing. It's so funny to me.

Yeah, it blows my mind. And especially with the part about. And I. This is interesting too, with a guarantee. I. I also think we've arrived in certain. Certain people are like this, where you'll throw on a guarantee and they'll be like, I don't want to guarantee. I just want results. Like, some people. You know what I mean? Because it's like, like, why would you sit. Some people are just like that. Where it's just like, why would I waste two or three months with you? I don't care if you give me any guarantee. Like, why would I waste my time, two, three months with somebody that I know isn't going to get results? Like, the guarantee alone, I don't think cuts it. And certain, certain. With certain personality types just like, dude, I don't want guarantees. I just want you to do the thing you promised.

Yeah, so. So quantifiable case studies and client testimonials, a very large amount of them is, Is by an order of magnitude way stronger than a guarantee. If you had to only pick one. You'd pick the results. Yeah, you'd pick the client results. Every single time. There's another concept with it, and that's, that's just an example of, like, a really good client. Like, I just want the results. I don't care what it takes. Like, I want the results. The, the reason why you would even speak to them in the first place or they would even arise into a conversation with you in the first place is because they are aware of all the people that you are already working with. That would be the only situation that they.

That. That literally happened to us recently. We had a guy cop on the phone and, you know, it was something, something that we wanted to work with. And, you know, we said that we gave him a guarantee for his case. Like, we were flexible. It's like, yeah, like, you know, we know you've been frustrated with this. Like, we'll give you a guarantee. He's like, dude, like, I know you guys are killers. Like, we don't. I don't. I don't want to guarantee. I just want to get like the results. Like, I've worked with two short form guys already. Like, this is not like really exactly what I've envisioned. Like, I just want results for the right time and like that, that social proof and the testimonials that they shine through because just no one, no one else had that at the time. And so I think that's really important too is like, you know, you give a guarantee, but you also have like, you know, it's like they have to work together. Speaking of working together, you know, we talk about this all the time. Like having that personal brand as well is like really important and being relevant for people. Like, it just doesn't make sense. Like, why would you. Like, it's like your profile, your landing page, all this stuff does the selling, right? It's not the hinge line that works, it's your profile. And maybe the line is good and it helps or assists or whatever. But it's like fundamentally at its core, it's. People are checking out your YouTube channel, they're checking out your Instagram, they're checking your tick, like, whatever. You're on your Twitter, of course. And it's like that's what's actually doing the selling. It's like, oh, this guy actually knows what he's talking about. A cold DM scripts. He also has this cool website called Client Ascension. Like, maybe I'll go checking it, check it out. Imagine trying to pitch Client Ascension like door to door to somebody that doesn't.

Yeah. With just like zero social following. Yeah, it wouldn't work. There's, there's no shot. And this, this is what, this is what's really interesting with a lot of people I see this sometimes, it's like really strange to me. Dudes will have like zero followers on any social media and they're like, hey, I'm thinking about making a coaching program. Like, who the are you gonna sell a coaching program to? It was like they have, they just like randomly want to make some coaching offer and like they haven't even done the thing. I'm like, who the do you think is gonna buy that? Like actually, who do you think is gonna buy that? But clearly nobody. Like, did you even think that through at all? Like in any capacity? No one's, no one's gonna buy it. So what people do is they think they hear of like client acquisition mechanisms. Like there's just mechanisms. So it's like, oh, short form content, long form YouTube, tweeting, posting on LinkedIn, cold email, cold calling, Google Ads, YouTube ads, Facebook ads. TikTok ads, Instagram ad, ever. There's all these mechanisms and everybody thinks that they're all separate. They think, oh, the, the YouTube ads are working so well. Like oh, the LinkedIn ads are. Or the LinkedIn's working really well and like Twitter, not so much. Or this, this, this. It's like bro, they all feed into each other. They're not these separated, independent things. It's all the same. Right. So it's like if you have, if you have a take, take two people, they're sending cold emails, same exact, same exact offer, same exact cold email script, same exact follow ups, same exact deliverability, same exact industry company size, they're pitching everything, everything's exactly the same. You have one guy who has no website, no social media, nothing. You have another guy, he has a website, is a video sales letter on the website. He has a bunch of results on the thing. He has a YouTube with a bunch of videos on it. Maybe it even has 50 subscribers. But the sheer matter of the fact is they put in the bare minimum effort to put stuff on the Internet, like to display his competence somewhere. He has that.

Yeah.

And he tweets on Twitter and then he, he takes the same exact things he put on Twitter and he puts them on LinkedIn and then he also like does some short TikTok videos. They're not hyper edited at all. It's just a selfie, just like a quick thought, it's explaining what he knows, just displaying his confidence. So you got those two people, one guy's nothing. One guy has all that. The guy who has all of that isn't going to just do 10% better, 20% better, 30% better. He's going to get all of the results. The guy with none of that will get precisely zero. If there were this industry pool with say a hundred people will eventually convert, the guy with nothing will get zero nothing. The guy with all that will get all 100 clients thousands and thousands of orders of magnitude better.

Yep.

All cohesively played together. So someone says to me, they're like, bro, how are you going? How are you growing client ascension? Is it, is it YouTube? Is it like what's happening? Is it the funnel? I'm like, no, bro, I'm everywhere. Every single thing I do. There's nothing I'm not doing. That's why it works.

Yep.

There's like people, I, I just have a pool. There's probably like half a million people who like are in my funnel. Maybe let's say something like that. They know I exist. Probably like half a million people on earth noise if they saw my face to probably recognize me. Okay, all of you are in my funnel. If you know I exist, you're in my phone. I'm trying to fucking sell you something. So you might go on this app. You might go on this app. You might go on this app. You might go on this app. You might go on this app. I don't care where you are, you. You're gonna get a retargeting ad for me. You're gonna see me organically posting on it. I'm gonna be. You're gonna see my partner's ads. You're gonna see my partners organically posting. You're gonna see us everywhere. It's not. I'm not just sitting here. I just do Twitter. Like, oh, Twitter makes me all my money. Like, or cold email makes me all the money. It's like, no, I do precisely everything. That's the only reason why it works.

Yeah, and that's huge too, because it's like always about the tactics or the hacks. It's like the Hebrew types. Bro. It's just like, yeah, like, bro, like, let me just use this, like, Twitter template and that's just gonna, like, no, like, you have to be everywhere. Like, I remember there was a joke about, like that one week where you're just like, running the ads like crazy on Twitter. You could not escape. You could not escape that one ad. It was everywhere. Hey, we help B2B companies scale and all this other stuff. Like, you couldn't escape. It was like the joke of the week. And that in its in of itself was marketing.

Yes.

Right? People talk about, like, bro, like, I like you. You're every. Like, I can't escape you. Yeah, it's like, that's, that's the point. I'm trying to sell you something.

Yeah. So I, I, I look at my. Like, if I'm running retargeting ads anywhere, I, I want like, people in my funnel to see me, Andre or Christian or get emails from me or something. Like, people on my email list or see tweets. I want you to see me, like, legitimately, 30 times a week. Because what's going to happen is you might not be ready for client ascension. It might be. It might not be the correct time for you to buy this. You are in what is called a conversion window. And everybody's conversion windows just begin to elapse. Something happens in their business was like, you know what? I'm ready to start doing cold email with client extension and growing my Business and getting clients or you only have to relegate it. That's clients. I'm just ready to grow right now. And now what you're going to do is you're going to go into the bank of your mind and you're going to search what's the best gateway to make me do this right now? Who's the, who is the person who can help me do this as quickly as possible right now? And what happens is these people go into a buying window.

Yes.

That's like 30 minutes long. And it is just one like segment of like 30 minutes. I'm buying right now. I'm solving this issue right now. I'm done dealing with this. I'm changing the situation right now. And now what's going to happen is the first person they think of is the person who they saw the most, who had the most frequency. The. It was me. I sent the most emails, I made the most ads, you saw me the most, I posted the most. I'm the default option in your mind. I am so good at taking people in the funnel and eventually converting them. There's an extremely high probability. If you run a marketing agency or a B2B company and you consume my content in any fashion, you will probably buy something from me just solely because of the frequency. Whenever you think of it, you, you go into that 30 minute period just like I'm doing it on the first one you thought of. That's the only reason why that's huge.

That is really good point. And I've noticed that as well. Especially with you. You told me this too with the following. Especially with like kind of the service I offer where a lot of times it's like really hard to attribute revenue specifically towards it. Right. Because it's very top of funnel. You have to keep following up. You have to just be there. Like, dude, like, it's like that spongebob meme of him popping out of the mailbox that you have to be in people's faces, bro. That's happened to me even recently too. I followed up with someone from like a few months ago and it's like, yeah, bro, like he literally said, great, follow up. Like, let's do it. Like, let's, let's hop on a call. Like, these people, like, they're, they're watching you.

They're watching you. They're watching, they're lurking.

They're, they are, they're liking your shit. They're looking at it and it's like.

Yeah, they might not even be liking it. Yeah, they Might not. They just look at it.

It's crazy.

Yeah. You have no idea.

And, like, that alone is like, dude. It's like, why would you not, like, even, like, dude, even, like, the money Twitter memes I posted, like, that's been enough to stay relevant in people. And, like, that wasn't even, like, really. That was, like, me fucking around and trying to, like, have a good time. But even that was, like, enough to people, like, oh, this is the guy that he. They associate that with, like, these at the Friday edits with Presley. Yeah, that's the association of said thing with said person. And you're the guy for, like, when I joined Client center, I'm like, okay. Like, I need help scaling. Like, oh. Like, I've literally only seen you. Especially when you're first exposed to the market. I've only seen you. I don't even know who else does. I haven't been around for long enough. I've just seen your shit a million times. I'm like, yep, well, so would I go to. Cool. It sounds good. All right, cool. Like, you guarantee 10,000. Perfect. Let's. Jay, like, send me the thing. Like, let's. Let's get rolling. Like, literally, that's how it went down. I was like, I can't think of anyone else.

Yeah. So you already decided that you, like, this. Is this how most, like, things elapsed? Like, what should be happening is, like, a fair bit of your calls, like, get on. They're like, I already sold.

Yeah.

Like, they just want some questions answered or, like, they just want to, like, you know, but pretty much they should all, like, be sold already. But if you have sufficient amount of results. So this is, like, really important. Like, someone. Somebody books a call or something, like, bro, you better send them an email showing them your results. There's a lot of people to just go through, and they'll. They'll book a call and go here. It's like, no, no. But, bro, you gotta. You gotta let them know who you are. Like, here's what I can do. Like, you need to know what I'm capable of. Like, you need to display it. It's like this. I work with this guy. This guy. This guy. This guy. This guy, right? This guy is doing this much. This guy's doing this much. This guy's doing this much. You gotta, like, show people. Like I was saying before, if you don't document what you're capable of, the results you've driven that might as well not exist. Like, they. They actually don't exist. If you don't post them.

Yeah, also with, with that being said too, like, it just doesn't make sense to me when people are coming in and stuff and they're like, yeah bro, like, dude, email marketing sounds cool bro. But like Clavio flow, Clavio flows. Like that sounds hard. It's like my guy, you haven't even read like a book. Like you, you said it best. And I, this is my favorite thing. Like my guy, pay your groceries. You're poor. You're poor. You like buy, buy yourself a protein bar. And that's huge because I think like, and you probably see this client sentient as well. Like people just trying to skip steps and they'll, they're thinking 10 steps in advance. Yeah, they want it all figured out right away. Bro, how am I going to scale my agency from 100? Like, dude, what 100k? Like where are you getting. You're pulling these numbers. That bro, is scalable. Like how, how am I going to scale this from 50k? Like, dude, like you don't, you don't, you have, you don't even have a client.

Do like did you feel like 8k a month or like, all right, well like I'm gonna get 200k months. So I'm gonna do this and this and this and this. I'm like, bro, just, just start the cold email campaign. Let's start there. Like, just do that. And like this happens all, all the time. It's like I'll get a dude to be like, hey, I've been really thinking about my offer and like I want to get on a one on one over here. And, and then like I get like, they've been a client sension for like I don't know, like a couple weeks or like a month. They're like, so I'm thinking about changing my offer to this, this, this. I'm like, bro, you haven't even sent cold emails with the first offer. Like why are you changing your offer? It's like, well I see these guys over here, they're at 300k a month. I'm like, don't. That's not. You like just send emails like you just made this offer of like you haven't even spoken to anyone. Like you don't know what is going to sell and you're sitting here planning all this time and it's like, it's not even like, like dudes will sit here and it's like they like ponder and think it's working. Like they're like pondering and they're. And they think that's work. Like, yeah, bro, I've been working all this week on like building this new offer. I'm like, what do you mean building this new offer? You were like thinking about something. You weren't building anything. If you're building something, you would have connected your domains to Melody. The free cold email settings are we got. You would have copied and pasted the script that we just wrote for you on a one on one. You would have opened up your email to the Excel file of the 3,000 leads that we just manually built for you. You would have downloaded that, put that into a campaign on.