How Cameron Scaled His Web Design Agency To $25k/month SOLO

What's going on, guys? Andre Hagel Jr. Here from client Ascension, back with another student spotlight interview. Excuse the nastiness in the background. I'm in my childhood bedroom back home in New York for the week where it all started. This is the origin right here. But nonetheless, I'm with my good friend Cameron Tarbell. Welcome to the show, bro. Heck, yeah.

Happy to be here. Thanks for having me on.

Oh, my pleasure, dude. We've done this before. So, Cameron, we were talking about this a little bit off camera, but you were on my podcast just a couple of months ago, actually before you even moved down to Tampa, which was a great episode. So if you're watching this, definitely look up Cameron Tarbell and stick toc podcast. It's like an hour and a half if you're interested in hearing more about Cameron. But on today's interview, we're going to talk a lot about your agency journey. We'll talk about Client Ascension, all that stuff. But before we dive into the specifics, if you want to just start us off with a quick, quick intro of who you are and what you're currently working on. Cool.

Yeah. My name is Cameron. As Andre said, I'm currently working on building my third web design agency. I'm originally from the Midwest, from Des Moines, Iowa. Small city surrounded by corn fields. I joke that it felt like I lived on an island growing up, because once you left Des Moines, it was just corn fields for hundreds of miles. Anyway, went out to school in Virginia for four years. I. I feel like one of the few money Twitter guys that actually completed college. Obviously, I know there's a lot of graduates on there, but anyway, so about a year ago, almost a year ago to the day, I started my third web design agency, and we're working on scaling that.

That's so awesome, man, because I feel like a lot of guys, if they go through the first two iterations of a web design agency or just a business in general, not working out or panning out the way they wanted it to, they'd give up even after that first try. So I guess for you, what was the motivation or where you pull the motivation from to give it a third try?

Yeah, so the first two try, we say tries as if they. They weren't successful, and they were successful in their own way. But my first agency was. Was more of me just freelancing, and it took me a few years to get that up and running, like, to its. To its potential. I guess I was. I was trying to grow it for like two or three years. Before I saw success with it, and I would get a client here, get a client there. I was grinding in Facebook groups just like horribly targeted marketing strategies for myself, but I was still getting some clients from it. And so anyway, I scaled that scale, that little operation to about $10,000 a month. And I was doing everything. I was doing the marketing of myself, the fulfillment, the creation of websites, the project management, just everything A to Z. And I got to the point where I was able to hit $10,000 a month. But there was a few factors at play. One, I was working on a ton of projects all by myself, which meant two things. One, I needed to raise my price. And the second thing is I probably needed a team behind me to fulfill. So that brings me to agency number two. I had just hit like that 10,000amonth mark, and I was looking to see how I could scale it. And I knew that I wasn't going to do it alone, at least at that time. So I ended up finding a business partner at the time. We took our second agency, my second agency. We scaled that into about a $3 million company before I left. I was there for about two years and put in my letter of resignation. Left that company literally a year ago, a little over a year ago now, and then started on agency number three. Agency number three has been. It's been a fun one. It's been a challenge in its own ways, but it's been a lot of fun to see the growth. And on top of that, like, because of all the experience I got from running my own freelance operation to running a multimillion dollar company, to where I'm at now with a smaller, more nimble team, I feel like we've been able to be. We've been able to be extremely efficient with the resources that we've had so far, which makes me, like, really excited to, like, continue to build it and continue to scale it. So we started this agency basically just doing web design. We're transitioning a little bit more now into the SEO space, and there's a lot of exciting things happening in the SEO world. But anyway, so, yeah, just working on scaling that.

So cool, man. We haven't even really been dug into the questions, and you're already dropping a lot of wisdom here. Like, some of the lessons you learned early on were raising your prices, hiring a team. You even went through the process of teaming up with a business owner and figuring out that you actually wanted to downsize and do it with a more nimble team and a more nimble fulfillment on that side of things. So it's so interesting to hear, like, how the different iterations of the agency have taught you different lessons and brought you here today. So my question is, like, where does Client Ascension come into the fold? Like, when do you hear of Client Ascension? How do you hear about it, and what's your motive to join the community there?

So it's. It's funny because, like, we've. We've known each other on Twitter for, like, two years now, maybe longer, and I'd see your stuff, you'd see my stuff occasionally, and I would see the ads for Client Ascension probably dating back a year ago, so something like that. But it wasn't until October of last year I was actually looking. So I had. I had cold email going. I had LinkedIn going for lead Generation, and I kept seeing everyone crushing it with Twitter. So I was actually looking at tweets and clients, and I hit up Christian. I was like, yo, do you know anything about tweets and clients? Like, anything about that program? He's like, you might be a better fit for Client Ascension. Just saying, you should check it out. And I took a sales call with his. With David, of all people, on tweets and clients, and then I end up signing into Client Ascension, and I get on a coaching call, and he's right there as a coach on the call. I'm like, wait a second, you were my sales rep for tweets and clients, and you're here. So, yeah, anyway, I. It ended up being a much better fit, I think, than tweets and clients, at least at the time. Tweets and clients, yeah. Like, I still, like, I'm working on, like, growing my Twitter a little bit now. It turns out, like, I've learned maybe my audience isn't entirely there. It's a lot of them. A lot of the people we work with are, like, very LinkedIn specific. Think of your, like, medical and your, like, B2B companies. We're talking, like, people that are older than 45 years old of age and whatnot. They're hanging out on LinkedIn. But, yeah, so when I signed on late October, my business was still relatively new. We had really only had. So I left agency number two would have been April of 2022. I really didn't start closing deals until I closed my first actual large deal in August of 2022. So we had August, September, and then October comes around. I'd really only made $25,000 at this point in my new business. And so that's where I signed on with Client Ascension. What was the other part of the question? There was. There was a few different parts of.

It that was mostly. I'll kind of lead into the next part of the question here as well. I always love the story about David too. And David's hilarious, man. So David was a closer for tweets and clients, and then he became a closer for Client ascension as well. And he's always been a coach in Client Ascension and even dating further back, he was like our very. The very first student in the program when we started two years ago. So he's been involved in since the very beginning. He's one of our, you know, most prized team members and he just does a lot here for the community. It was just funny because he was like, yeah, Cameron's not interested. And we're like, dude, like, let's just talk to him because he's DMing Christian and he's clearly showing interest. And he's like, nope, he's not interested. So we're like, okay, we're gonna give this call to Jay then, and Jay's gonna take it and he's gonna get your commission. He's like, nope, Jay's just going to waste his time. And then Jay takes the call and closes and it shows up in the sales chat. And I've never seen David Saltz here is the funniest thing ever. He was sure of it.

I. I was like, I remember Jay had me hook, line and sinker clothes and I, I, I like, had my credit card ready to go. I was like. And I stopped myself. I was like, I was like, I'm making a purely emotional decision right now. Like, give me like 48 hours just to think on it. 48 hours goes by. I'm like, cool, let's do it. Like, I feel good about it and something I feel good today about doing. But yeah, it was. Yeah, I was, I was pretty hooked on the whole model because I think tweets and clients, like, you look at the program there and like, this is not like talking bad about them or whatever. Like, it is in the name. It's very Twitter specific. Where Client Ascension, I think it's much more holistic. It might not go as deep on some of the social media sides, but it goes deep into a whole bunch of other stuff that I feel like just makes for a well rounded, like business owner, agency owner, et cetera.

Yeah, definitely, bro, 100%. And so, yeah, the next question kind of talks on that is like, what was the biggest problem you're trying to solve in the business? When you joined Client Ascension, or was it more so just trying to find new lead channels? Like, where were you at as a business? And like, when you first jumped into Client Ascension, what were some of the resources that you found the most valuable? Early on?

Yeah, early on, yeah, good question. So I had, I was. I was just starting to play around with cold email in early October, and I started ending up, like, ripping through leads, and it ended up working out pretty well. But right from the very start, like, the onboarding process is very smooth. It's very seamless. You have your call with Christian, you have your call with Daniel as well. And, you know, you get your offer set up, you get your email script set up. Having that script call with Christian, I think was. Was very helpful. As someone that's been scaling with email specifically, like, I was running the numbers like just yesterday, and it's like 50% of my business is coming from cold email. And then everything else is trace amounts From Twitter, from LinkedIn, from referral. I get a lot of referrals and just like word of mouth and whatnot. So, yeah, so like to kind of dial in those campaigns a little bit more and see, okay, I'm really screwing up right here with this. Make that adjustment and then pivot. That was really helpful. The other thing that, the other, like, few calls that, that I find especially fascinating. And like, one thing that I guess I never really envisioned having a problem, like, I don't think of myself as like a horrible salesperson. I know that in the grand scheme of things, I probably am. But, like, most people that I jump on a call with, like, it's like 30% are going to close, if not higher. So. But I go onto the calls with like, David, right? David Jacob. And there's so many, like, minute, like, small details that he's able to pick out of a sales conversation to like, reframe the whole thing and like, that knowledge and just sitting through some of those. And I wish I've been. I wish I could be on more of those calls, but those have been super helpful just for the smallest of things. But outside of that, like, other things that, like, everything's just so helpful. The fact that I can just go into the community, I can just ask a question, get an answer to something that might be, you know, tough to find on Google or whatever, you know, there's just another owner willing to help you out. And then on top of that, just meeting the network of people. Like, I've, I've. I've made so many connections, like Calvin at Koo Creatives. Like, we're finishing up his website right now, finishing some optimization on it and a few others just that I met through the community and then I might be referring a logo deal over to Calvin and just making friends like that, like, that's really valuable as a business owner. It makes you much more dangerous as a business owner. And I found extreme value just with the network of people there.

That's awesome, man. And you're one of those guys, right? Like, you're one of the guys that Calvin who was on this call like last week, he'll mention, or Matt Lucero. Like, you're part of the community and it speaks for itself. Right? Like, you put together really ambitious business owners that have good intent and want to help each other. A lot of partnerships, a lot of opportunities, a lot of deals will be. Will be had, which is where it really starts to get fun. Right. Because the education, the coaching, that's all great. But like, when real deals start to happen inside of the community, that's where the ROI can skyrocket really quickly. So kind of catch us up. Like, you've been in the program for what, like six months now?

October to now? Seven months.

Seven months. So, like, where are you at as a business? Like, what is the. Where are you at now as a business? And like, what's the next problem to solve that you have your eyes in time and attention set on? Yeah.

So right now we just kind of got out of like. So when I joined Client Ascension in October, right at the end of December, I really started to push scaling and just seeing what we could do numbers wise. And we saw some, like, I saw my first, it was like $25,000 a month in December solo, like without a business partner. Like, that was like take home for me, which is really nice. But we had that and we kept that growth for a while up until about, up until about end of February, March, I started slowing down some of the email campaigns just because, like, we were. It was. Things were breaking inside of the business and which was exactly what we wanted to happen. And so now, right now, the current problem that we've been, that we've been fixing and that I feel like is almost fixed is just systematizing everything that we need in order for the team to be much more efficient. And thanks to Jordan Paris, who's also in the program, you know, we've been able to systemize quite a bit just inside of, you know, SOPs and training the team, etc. So now really the next goal is like, all right, Can I break through that $30,000 month like I've been wanting to since October and getting past that and I genuinely believe that client ascension is the, the program and like the, the tool set that'll take my business from like those twenty thousand dollar months up to like fifty, sixty thousand dollars months.

Yeah. Just with time. Right. And like what Jordan Paris does is super special too. Like his section in the program is one of, I think the most valuable and underutilized because it takes a while for agency owners to get to this stage. Right. Like you have to really master Legion and sales and not just for one month, but pretty consistently before you really need to be spending time on operations and hiring and managing. But now you're there and the best part is the content is also there. Like the answers are also there and the, the coaches are also there to meet you where you're at, which is really exciting. So I think you're going to have some pretty exciting growth upcoming because you're going to systemize, because you're going to find the right people to get involved and then you can confidently go back to doing more Legion and more sales. So.

And it's where it really starts to get exciting. Yeah. I think the other thing is like as a business owner is like recognizing that things are breaking. And so like in the second agency that we were scaling, there were times where things were breaking and I wasn't consciously recognizing that this is broken because of XYZ and like this new agency, like things started breaking. I was like, something's not working right here. I should probably investigate this further, you know, and just being able to recognize, hey, we need to make a change and then making that change so you can scale further down the road.

So true. Dude. I heard a quote from two quotes actually that really resonate to this part of the conversation. The first actually isn't really a quote, it's more a story. And I think it's from the book four Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss, which other than this quote, there's not much else that I took away from it. But the story is like how Tim Ferriss would always take a two week vacation every year even when his business was just getting started. And the reason he did it is because he knew the business would break and he just didn't know where exactly. So his whole thing was he take the vacation so that when he comes back he could see exactly where the business broke so he knows where to fix things. And so I think that's so important to understand is like your Business will break a whole bunch of times, and. And that's what's supposed to happen so you can unlock those next levels of growth. And Cole Gordon says something really similar where he says, like, once you achieve, like, a certain problem in your business, it creates the next set of problems. Like, it's an infinite game, right? Business is never, like, solved. You never done. You're never satisfied. Like, there's always the next level to things, which makes it so exciting. And to be around people that have achieved those next levels and can give you the answers and can give you, you know, the strategies to get through those things quicker and with less pain and expenses. That's where things start to get fun. But, yeah, super excited, man. I'm. I'm excited to see how things unfold for you here. So the. The next question is, I think my favorite question when doing these things, because it's so valuable for guys in the program that are just either not seeing the results that they want or they're just getting started or they're even just considering joining a program which could be tweets and clients. It could be client essentially. It could be anything else. Like, in a coaching program like ca, what would you say? Like, what would be your biggest piece of advice to someone just starting today, day one, they're, you know, just having some success with their agency, but looking to see a monumental shift because of their investment in ca. Like, what's the. What's the game plan?

Yeah, if I were. If I were just starting off in the program again, knowing what I know now over the last seven, eight months is like, carve out. Like, seek out time to come to as many of the calls as you can and try to master each thing that they're going over. And I came into the program telling myself I'm going to become 1% better. Even if I become 1% better across all these different things, that's a massive lifetime ROI right there. And if you can take that further and go, I'm going to become 5% better every single month or something like that, you're going to end up taking your agency a lot further. However, the thing I will add is, like, for me, I kind of made that mistake where my agency right now, like, we're growing, we're building, and, like, I haven't been as active as what I used to be and what I want to be now. So if you can, like, regularly carve out time, kind of like. Kind of like how most people do with. Not most people, but how people do it with carving out time to go to church each week or reading your Bible or working out even. You know, we have a lot of health, health people on money Twitter and whatnot. You know, consistently showing up every day. If you do that, you're going to see a much bigger ROI than me. And I think of, I think of like Matt, Matt Lucero. Like the kid just showed up hungry and like kids running laps around everybody on money Twitter, hands down. And he's not going to stop anytime soon. And it, I genuinely believe a big part of that is because he, he shows up, he's everywhere inclined essentially. He can't get away from the kid and he's just eager to learn. And someone like that, if you just come eager to learn, you're gonna, you're gonna skyrocket.

I love that dude. And like you said, proof is in the pudding, right? Like the biggest thing that I say exactly what you said. It's all like time blocking. And I think the biggest mistake when joining a program like Client Ascension is in the beginning. Like you're all excited, you're happy to be there and that's like your biggest focus. And then to two weeks go by and you're back into the business, right? Clients are churning or just problems in the business that are taking more your attention away from the program itself and then you start to get behind and then you go back into slack or you go back into the program and you realize how behind you really are. Because every single day there's notifications left and right like you really can't keep up. It's a full time job just to keep up.

I disappeared like for like three weeks and I opened up the client ascension Slack and I was like, oh my gosh, what did bomb went off of just nine plus notifications on each channel. I was like, it doesn't sleep.

It really doesn't. Yeah, it is the most active community ever. And it's like a beast that I completely lost control of. In a good way though, right? Like you kind of want the community to be active, but that could also be very overwhelming. And so what I tell students is first off, like don't let that be overwhelming. You could always jump back in. It's just about like prioritizing like the announcements channel, right? That's where you're going to see the most up to date announcements and then the topic specific channels, like if you're struggling with Legion, go right there. Don't worry about operations and sales and all these other things that you're not currently needing to worry about. But the biggest thing, Cameron, that I learned early on in businesses, consistency trumps trying to cram. And so, like, instead of waiting to the end of the week to get through everything, or instead of like waiting until the weekend to watch like three hours of back to back client ascension content, just do 15 minutes a day.

Yeah.

Like, in time, block it. Like you said, like, just reading the Bible in the morning. Like, you block time to do that same thing with client ascension. Figure out when it's good for you, whether it's your lunch break, your daily walk after dinner. Find a time that works for you and it's 15 to 30 minutes. And if you do that every single day, you'll look up after being in the program for 30 days and realize how much progress you've made.

Yeah, right.

You sent a couple of slack messages. You, you showed up to a couple of calls, you went through a lot of the modules. That's all it really takes, right? It's playing the long game. So really good, really good advice here for, for anyone in the program that's currently listening to this. Like, I, this again, my favorite question I ask students is like, what would you do differently if you were to start over? And it's always the same thing. Go to more of the coaching calls, show more consistently connect with others in the community. Because a lot of guys are shy, right? They don't reach out. Like, when a new member joins, like, I bet you Lucero's in his DMS right away, right? Most people don't do that. But, like, those are all opportunities because there's two sides to it. It's like, you see someone that joins the program, you're like, they just got more busy. They're not going to care as much about me now. But like, the level of support remains, but the level of opportunity increases because that's just one more person that could work with you, serve you, connect you to other people in their network.

So, yeah, that's. And that's, that's the other thing. Like, you talk about support inside the community. Like, like, yes, the coaches provide support. I can ask a question to anyone. But, like, the fact that, like, I know Matt or I also know Isaac, you know, we, we did like a dark pod for a while. Like, I know I can reach out to those guys at any point, you know, with any questions to them even. And they both do cold email, like, and just networking inside of that also. Like, there's just so many different layers of support. You have the coaches, you have everyone else on their own level. And yeah, you can find support anywhere. And everyone's so helpful just in general, so. And I know I've had, I've had other web designers come to me and ask me like, how do I get over this? And like, how do I get over this next hump of business or whatever. And like, I apologize, I can't remember his name, but I jumped on a call with a kid last week. He DM me and I was like, yeah man, let's get on a call. And like, I was happy to make 30 minutes for someone inside of Client Ascension, which is ironic because I get asked that about a hundred times a week on Twitter, but those don't see the light of day like they do in Client Ascension. It's just a totally different caliber person inside of 100%.

I'm the same way, dude. Someone incline Ascension asked me something like that. That's my first priority is clearing out slack. And it takes forever, but the, the return there is so great because that, you know, pouring into spreads all throughout the rest of the community. The thing about Shoot two Cameron is like, you're a true subject matter expert. Like if, if you're watching this again, go back in and watch the Stick Talk podcast episode with Cameron. He talks more about like his come up in the early days building his first websites and just learning like the actual skill set of website design and creation. And so a lot of this stuff, you know, it's easy for you to say, like you've been at this for a long time, like, you are a true expert in the space. And I think that's why people really enjoy reaching out and connecting with you specifically. But other than like really becoming a true expert in your service, because I think that's a given and that's what you do so, so well. What else would you say to agency owners that are looking to grow? Like, what are some things that have worked for you recently? Yeah.

Oh, that's a good question. Yeah. I mean, the first thing, I will elaborate just a little bit on that first point of being a subject matter expert. Like if you're not, people are going to see straight through that on sales calls, no matter how you try to mask it. Like, that's just something that's so clear when you're not a true subject matter expert or even if you are, like, I would say, I would say like even when I started taking my first sales calls and I was just like just falling on my face in those, I would say I was still a true subject matter expert. But I had to figure out a way. How do I communicate these complicated principles into a sales call where someone can fully understand it? So I do. I believe that is extremely important. You see a lot of people come on to money, Twitter maybe with a large following and they, they just jump from thing to thing to thing of the thing, trying to find success in it. But they never take the time to become that subject matter expert. So that's important. The second thing is, and we were talking about this earlier, is just consistency. And consistency is tough. Consistency, consistency with posting online. Like, like people are going to search you online. When you send them a cold email or a cold dm, they're going to see your content. So make sure that you're up to date with everything. And I try to be active on Twitter, I try to be on LinkedIn. I've been slowly getting more and more into YouTube as well. So if you're consistent on, on those platforms, that's really going to help out as well. The other thing is like consistent on client fulfillment, work and prospecting and just showing up every single day with the idea of I'm going to move the needle forward. If you don't much like, if you don't do that in your own business. It's a lot like how we were talking about with client ascension, slack channels. It's going to become overrun and then you're going to have to spend, you know, 26 hours just digging through the weeds trying to pull everything back together as a business owner, especially when you're still working on getting those systems in place. So, and that's a tough one. I, I think a lot of people fall, including myself. When I first started off, I think a lot of people fall into the trap of I'm doing this for the freedom, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But then you realize like you do have to put in the work early in order to achieve that freedom later. And yes, we have more flexibility now than Most people in a 9 to 5 like I like we, we can travel to London at the end of the month and not bat an eye about it. Where someone on a 9 to 5, you know, they're going to have to get a permission from boss and all that. But yeah, I think that's a big piece is just be a subject matter expert, show up consistently in everything you do and everything else. You had a tweet on it just this morning that God's going to take care of the rest of the. And that's kind of the mindset I've always had with it.

Dude, spot on. Like, that's such rich advice. Because those are the two things that I feel like people miss the most, is they skip over becoming a subject matter expert. They think they could outsource everything and not have to learn it. And then the consistency thing, and I think even another underlying thing with the consistency aspect is you don't see the results right away. Like, if you, if you show up and work six hours at a 9 to 5, you know you're gonna get the. The $70 paycheck. That's it. Right. Like, you know, your input's gonna produce this specific, constructed, already predefined output and entrepreneurship. We could show up consistently for the next 30 days and our business could go out of business. Right? And we don't know that. And so to show up every day is you have to motivate yourself to do it without being able to see the results. And that's where like, the God aspect comes in, is like just trusting a higher power to take care of the output. That as much as we want to control, we really can't. Because at the end of the day, there's people on the other end of those decisions. Like, someone has to make the decision to buy. Someone has to make the decision to pay you or to work with you or to show up and do certain things. And so there's a lot of variables.

It's so wild. I think the other thing, like, the last thing I'll kind of leave with, at least on this topic, is like, you have to realize that there is more than enough opportunity out there for you to succeed as a business owner. For me to come in and make $300,000 a year on a web design agency, do you know how minuscule that really is on a scale like, if you look at the web design industry, like the total growth, like, it's like doubling every four years. In size. In size. And it's just billions and billions and billions of dollars. And I'm taking a tiny little piece of that right now.

And.

And so the other part of that is like, kind of that free market. Like, people are out there every single day. There are businesses all over this city, over the entire United States, the entire world that are looking to buy your service, even if they don't know it yet. They know they have a problem. They just don't know the solution yet. If you're able to show up at the right time to those people, like, they're going to pay for your solution. So again, one of those things where, like, the free markets at Work. God is at work. It's going to work itself out as long as you're consistent, you're putting in the work, etc.

Yeah, yeah. Like, people look at the web designer, web creation agent or space and they're like, oh, it's saturated. But like, again, it might be super crowded, but you just need that small sliver to achieve your goal and to get what you want. So it's all about how you look at it.

You can become a million dollar company and still only have a.

It's so cool to think about. Yeah, dude. The, the. And the one thing I'll say about you, knowing you personally, like, you obviously moved on to Tampa. We spent some time together in person. We did the longer podcast. Like, you live this truth every time I've spoken to you since back when you first joined Client Ascension and even before that, like, you were showing up consistently, you were improving your skill set and web design. Like, you've been doing this consistently since we've known each other. And that's hard to say for most people. So that's what I always pride myself in is like when people ask me what I'm going to do next or what I'll be up to next time we talk, it's like, I hope it's the same thing that we're talking about now. Like, I want to stay consistent because I think that's more impressive than anything else.

Yeah.

And so really, really proud of you, dude. I'm proud to know you and to be working with you and to have you obviously, in Tampa. We'll have some more events coming up, I'm sure. And so for the audience, whether they're inclined Ascension or on Twitter, I'm sure one or the other. How can they follow you, find you and get in touch with you?

Yeah. On Twitter at Tarbell. Cameron is going to be the easiest place to get in touch with me outside of Client Ascension. Inside Client Ascension, you just throw my name in Cameron Tarbell in there. The other thing and this, I'm. I'm gonna do a full video on this later. I actually haven't said this publicly, but I'm renaming my company Rebranding right now to Driven Media. So it's going to be Cameron drvnweb.com driven with four letters, four continents, consonants and. Yeah, so that's my email. You can shoot me an email at any time. But yeah, those are the easiest ways to get in touch with it.

That's awesome. Yeah, definitely go check out Cameron on Twitter and also just in the Client Ascension Community One of the coolest things in the Slack community is you could search someone's name in the search bar and it'll show you all their activity and so you'll see like Cameron's been active all throughout different channels providing value, connecting and so he's one to really study and take after and also reach out. Right. Like you're just like everyone else. You're not gonna set yourself on a different level and that's the best part too about the community is everyone's willing to talk and connect regardless of who.

You are and that goes so far.

Yeah I love it dude. Well hey thanks so much for spending the time with us here today. There's a lot of value for students and really just anyone in the agency space to take out of this including myself. I walk away just having more solid points and beliefs about how to grow certain businesses. So I appreciate you sharing and spending the time. Heck yeah.

Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

Of course.