How to Stop Overcomplicating Business & Staying Stuck (How to Get Clients, Close Deals, and Scale)
Daniel Fazio argues that most business owners overthink their approach to getting clients and scaling. The key is taking action on simple systems rather than waiting for the perfect strategy. He covers sales, marketing, and operations without the complexity most people add.
Chapters
Squad in the background, client ascension gang working, making some money.
Yes.
So you're going to interview me?
I'm going to interview you. It's the most formal introduction you ever heard of. So I wanted to start this off with one thing that I personally feel like will help a lot of people. I try and always make the questions general enough that it can help people that are beginners, that are more expert level. Because, dude, I mean the basics never change. Right. So one thing we were talking about this morning was that, you know, you'll give like an instruction in the program. Someone asks you, hey, what should I do? And then you say do this. And then what happens is then 16 fucking follow up questions of what about this or what about this and this and that and what about this? And you're just like the entire time, just do the thing I told you to do. Right. So people have a tendency to take a base instruction and then overcomplicate the living shit out of it. Yeah. And you've seen this inclined ascension a lot with people where they're just like, they overthink the entire process. What would you tell someone that's like they feel like they're overthinking it, but they can't stop overthinking it besides stop as the, as the advice, like what would you tell them to help them understand why they don't need to be overthinking the entire process?
Yeah. So typically what happens is say I'm going to get on a call with someone, I'm going to give them their offer. Typically they're headlined as well on their site and they're going to come back. And typically there's a subsection of people who want to, who want to really understand it and they start negotiating about whether to do specific things. Well, what about this? What's what about this? What about this? What about this? And they're asking questions and anticipating problems that don't actually exist and aren't going to exist. Because I have. If I'm going to tell you to do something, it's because I have done that specific thing. That's why we only let a certain kind of person inside client center. Because I've already done it. If we haven't done something directionally related to it or almost exactly what you are trying to do, then you just wouldn't have been allowed into the first place. So when you come on and I do feedback with you, I'm telling you something because it is something I have actually employed and I have seen the results for now there's like all kinds of nuance that are associated with it. And I will explain that on the call to invoke understanding. But there's just a subsection of people that want to understand it more and more and more and more and more.
Why, why do they not need to understand it to that level? It's just not important.
Some people just do. I'm, I'm, I'm the kind of person who wants to hyper understand something. But there's, there is an issue with some people where it's, it's too much of a degree of over analysis or it's, you just don't do it because you cannot conceptualize why something is. But you're never going to learn why something is unless you actually do it. And what I kind of mean by this is there's, there's kind of two different kinds of people where you say, don't do this because then this is going to happen, it's going to be a mistake. But then you have the kind of person who's going to be like, oh no, I'm going to go do it anyway. I need to see what the mistake is that I'm, I kind of err on that side. So I, I do a lot of stuff and I failed at a lot of stuff and I'll experience that kind of thing. And then you have the other subsection of person where they see, oh issue that could potentially, possibly, maybe arise. I'm. Then I just won't do it. And that's exactly what happens. So people get some, some block of information and they're like, I don't feel comfortable with that. So they just don't do it. And like the, the best example is putting a risk reversal on your offer. Or it's like, and then I'll explain to people, well, make you, you're gonna structure it like this and this and this and this. And you're gonna make sure the client has to do this and this and this and this. And then they'll be like, well, like, well, well, what if the result doesn't get there? And I'm like, well, that's why you make the client do this, this, this, this, this. So look, if the client did this, this, this, this and this, would they, what's the probability they get the result? They're like, oh, probably like 99%. I'm like, that's exactly the function. And then people come back and they're still scared of just the prospect of putting the risk reversal in the first place. I'm like, dude, you don't understand. The. The 1% of person. That 1% who may, like, get a refund is going to. It's going to be so inconsequential based on the incremental amount of more demand generation you'll have from the presence of a risk reversal in the first place.
Exponential how many more people you'll get through the door. Yes, it covers all of it. It's like people with even a sales script, or when it comes to sales in general, it's like they're coming up with objections before the objection has even happened.
Like, just making things up.
Yeah, like they're reading the script. Well, if I ask this, what if they say this? Did they say that? No, ask the question then. That. You don't need to do that. Well, what if they say this? This. It just doesn't matter. So I feel like when I look at, you know, there's a bell curve meme right where there's the left half, there's like super low iq and then there's the right half, and it's the same thought, and then it's the middle where people, like, stay stuck. I think that's the issue, is that a lot of people are, like, in that middle spot right there where they want to know all the answers when it really is just as simple as, like, look, like, what do you want actually? Do you want money? Do you want to know all the answers? Because they're not the same. But you going and getting the money actually helps you learn the answers. Like you've said, you've actually done a lot. You've actually gone out and trial and error everything. So you can see, okay, here's what works, what doesn't work. Do you think that just brute force and just doing the fucking things is the best advice you could give someone?
Well, I won't even describe it as brute force, because every single thing that's documented inside Client Ascension is, is. It is quite literally a documentation of things we have employed ourselves. And you get the result of it. It's just not going to. I'm not going to instruct you to do it, or I'm not going to put it in there if we haven't done it ourselves.
For the audio, cut out a little bit. So we were talking about just implementing the stuff that someone tells you right away. It's like last night, we were at the same place, Sparkman Wharf. Sparkman Wharf here in Tampa. And I was telling Daniel about something. I was like, yeah, I feel like, you know, a majority of our customers we're talking to, this is where they range in terms of income. And we're offering this over here. I don't know if it makes sense. And I was like, I think we need to lower our prices to here or create another product. And he's like, no, just do like a payment plan, like way lower. And I was like, oh, but that's, that's a lot of. That's like a six month payment plan. He's like, just do it. And I asked him why and he's like, bro, just do it. And so then this morning I was like, all right, let's do it. And so I just hit up everyone that we had that I felt like was kind of on the, on the fence, but didn't close because of price. And I just sent them that and we already closed someone off of it. So it's like, it is that simple.
It can't.
It can be that.
It literally is. I wouldn't have told you to do that. You asked why and I'm like, I don't know. It just works. Like, why? Some people want to. Want to dig so deep into the understanding of, like, why, and they're looking for like the, the. The tree branch psychology thought process behind. Behind things. Someone like, why? Because it works. Like, that's why.
Dude, is that people want to know why what they're thinking is wrong. Yes, that's what it is. Why is what I'm saying wrong? And why is what you're saying right? And your answer usually is like, because I make 600 times more than you.
It always comes down to like, why? Because they're looking for a different kind of why. Where it's like, well, why? Why is the thing I'm doing wrong? Because you're not making money. Like, why is the thing I'm telling you to do right? Because I am so, like, if you just copy what I'm doing, then you will just be like me. It's very simple. It's like they want like, the deeper why, but it's like, it doesn't matter. Like, it just. It just is. You have to throw things at the wall. And this kind of goes into the concept of like split testing, where it's like, if you, if you like a big idea of a page or like your headline, your head. Typically I tell people your. Your headline is your offer. And what I mean by that is like, so you could have a split test where you're sending traffic to two pages and then you just keep continuously split testing things over and over and over and over and over again. You're just like shooting darts. Like what works. Like just figuring out what works and then you find one that works. And it doesn't matter why it works. Does so just do that because it is very simple. Like it 100% is so simple. So simple.
So I think a good place to kind of transition on this, to go in a different topic. Because this, this topic by itself of just like doing can, it's like an endless rabbit hole. Right. So what I wanted to talk about was for the person that is running a service based business, you know what I tell people is that I think that inherently a service based business can only scale so far before it's just so big that it'll become really, really difficult to scale because it doesn't have that flywheel model. As you take on more clients, it's hard for the service to improve because then you have to either A, create more lines of communication, more people to hire, or B, just like, it just becomes chaotic. This is where you look at like massive agencies like Ogilvy. It's insane how large Ogilvy is. Do you think that the service base, and that's just my opinion, you know, I'm sure a lot of people have a lot of different opinions on it. What point do you think it makes sense to kind of pause that and start looking at a different venture for someone that like, what revenue mark should they start thinking about? Okay, maybe I should transition into done with you instead of a do it yourself or a done for you service or into a DIY service. Like when do you think it makes sense for someone to transition out of done for you? Agency based services?
Yeah. So what kind of the question, what typically like what you're saying right now is it's hard to scale that you're not saying you can't scale it. Yeah, you're saying it's hard to scale it. And I can counter by saying something. Yes, if you were to acquire more and more and more and more clients, it will get logistically more difficult for every single additional client you get. But, but I would also tell you, okay, what if you're running a sales team, then it's like, well, that's not scalable. Like one salesperson can't scale. They can't take 30 calls a day. So what do you do? You have to stack people. And it's the same thing with fulfillment. You just have to stack people particularly. And with people that I kind of want to describe as like autonomous agents and what I mean by that I.
Thought you were about to say autistic autonomous agents.
An autonomous agent is something somebody who can make critical decisions for you. Right. And typically you're not going to find they'll, they'll work for you and they start to really understand your business and they start off in some form of fulfillment, doing whatever and then it turns out that they're really, really good at what they. So if you look at client center, there's hella autonomous agents in there.
Like they're real people are working for you.
Yeah, there's, there's people who just make their own decisions and kind of like operate their own company within a company. Like they're, they just do whatever they think is best in their particular sector. And I'm not like burying over them where it's like make sure it's like this, like this, like this. No, it's just like I know you're competent and you're going to get people to this end result. So here you go. So it's the same thing with hiring a sales team. So it does scale like it does now in terms of when should you like branch out to done with you or things like that. What I would say is sell people the thing in the form that they want it. And I've said this a couple times, but if you're getting on a bunch of calls and you're selling some done for you service and it just so happens that wherever you're prospecting for your region, I'm going to take your code email we gen agency you do, you do cold emails for people and a lot of your, a lot of your clients are like, oh, this is like so expensive. Where it's like you got to set up costs and then it's like $300 a call or something like that. I mean like doesn't really make sense for our business. Like it's just, I understand that like you're good at it and you have good results but like in terms of cash flow, like it just functionally wouldn't make sense for me to do that. Now this is the kind of person, because they indicated that, that, that financially really actually just doesn't make sense for them. So what you could say instead is big, well what if I set up the whole system for you?
Yeah.
And I'll kind of, I'll show you what I'm doing, I'll show you how to do it and I'll, I'll get the leads for you, I'll show you how to scrape the leads, I'll Write your first couple of scripts. I'll like take you through like a little class showing you like why things are like that. I'm going to give you like a schedule of like how to split test things and how to set up the tack and how to do the reply handling and all that. And they are probably going to be like, yeah, actually like I would like to. If someone gets on the call with you, they want to buy something. They do. Every single person on the planet running a business wants to be able to put a dollar in and get more dollars out. Every single person. It's just going to depend on the different kind, like their exact position or their psychology behind it. And like a good example I can give you this is me working with Eddie and Brady like TikTok ads and whatnot. So they have an offer where it's like, hey, we'll fully manage the TikTok for you. We'll script the ads, we'll edit the ads, we'll run the ad account. And I told them I don't want you to manage the ad account because I just want to know how to do it. I'm just that kind of person. I want to keep control over it. So what I did tell them, most.
High level business owners are going to be like that.
Yeah, most of them are like that. So that is inherently why done for you offer start to morph into like hybrid done for you and done with you. So I told them I was like, I want you to script ads and I want you to edit the ads, but I'm going to actually execute it. Like I want to do the media buying and be in the ads manager. I don't want you to do that because I wanted that control and most people actually are like that. So it's really funny when you say, when you, when you see someone, oh, you just saw some like coaching program or like whatever and say people buy that.
Yeah.
So why do you sell that? Because people buy it. Like no one would sell that if no one bought it. Like it doesn't make fun or, or if like someone's selling a course or something like that and they go, oh, that guy just sells a course. Or it's like, why does that go Run a course business? Because people are buying his course. Yeah, like that. He wouldn't run a course business if people weren't buying the course.
It's just like the wildest thing where you have people that will shit on a course or shit on a program and it's like, you know, there's like A whole thing called college, right? And that's like. It's like 100 fucking grand for your people will go into debt for that. And then all they learn about is like rocks.
Yeah.
The French Revolution.
Yeah, it's some random. It's a government funded coaching product. That's literally what it actually is. Government ascension. That's literally what it is, dude.
The education system is government ascension. You go from like kindergarten. Yeah.
Is. They don't have any done for you service. Why don't you. You guys get mad at them for running a coaching over here.
Complain, dude. So I think that's. It's a really interesting point you. You bring up because basically how I interpreted it was like, well, everything's going to be hard to scale. Some way something's going to be the problem.
Every single thing.
Otherwise everyone would be super rich.
Dude. Dude, I just want to make this point. It's always. You'll always see people who make like no money and they're like, well, I'm not going to do that because that doesn't scale. And it's like, what, what do you mean? Like, what are you saying? How the. You don't know if it will scale?
Scale, bro.
Yeah, it's like just the best concept of this is I made a video a long time back. I was like, here's how to get clients for a short form content agency. I was like, go pick a hundred people who you'd love to work with who probably make long form on YouTube. Go extract a clip from it and like send them the clip.
Yeah.
And that's it. And some dude comments that doesn't scale. And it's like, bro, you're poor. Like, what are you. What are you talking.
You were like a jacket and you were just sitting there just like saying like, yeah, what are you wearing? You're not. Why are you worried about scale? You don't even have a client.
I know, it's. It's just dumb. Where do people. They're in. They're people are just. They constantly do this. They're like, I'm not going to do that because this problem is going to rise in the future. And it's like, how do you know you. You just made that up. Like, so this happens all the time where people some objection about some like piece of advice or whatever, implementation or growing your business or whatever. It's always like, whoa, well what about this? And it's like, bro, that doesn't exist. Like you just made that up. You actually did just make that up. It's like, what are you saying? It's like, just go, if I say this, then. And then they're gonna say this. And what if they say this? It's like, bro, that hasn't happened. Yeah, that hasn't happened yet.
So why are we preparing for it?
Yeah, yeah. It just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, it's like you're solving problems that don't exist.
Yeah.
Like one, you don't know they exist. Two, they aren't there. So you know what the problem is right now is that you're not sending any cold emails.
Yeah.
Like you don't have a vsl. Like, you're not posting any content on the Internet. You're not giving any. Like, that's the problem. Problem right now. The, the thing you should be asking right now, the good question would be like, what kind of content should I make? But okay, yeah, let's go through that question now because that's what you need to do right now.
That's an aiming question right there.
It is an aiming question.
What type of content do I need to pump out? And you'll say this one. Okay, how many?
And then he'll go, yeah, he just does it.
But this is why he went into. Let's talk about Eamon for a sec. Give him a shout out right now. But it's. He came into Client ascension at what I think he was even. He had like one client or something like that and he just had like an 18k month or 17k month. Amen. And this is from personal experience. And me on top of that, he asked me for testimonial, so I might as well get that done now if I could get it in too. But no, like he, he, he came in and he's one of the most, like, he's just on point, always on time with everything, getting everything done, super high quality. I never have to really revise shit. Like, he just gets it done. And I, I mean, I've worked with a lot of different video editors and producers and he's one of the few people that I don't have to worry about. Like, hey, I have to hit him up. Hey, where's this coming? And shit like that. Oh, I took a trip to fucking Florida or anything. And it's like, it's not my problem. Like, where's my content that I need? Like, there's shit like that. That's annoying. But Eamon does like a really good job of just always having it on point. He asks an insane amount of questions. He's always trying to know and it's never like the question is never trying to argue or debate you. It's trying to understand what you're saying. Okay, well, how many of this? And like he wants to get all the details. And as a result he sees a shit ton of results. He goes from whatever one client to now making like 18k a month. And it's literally just because, and I may be off on the numbers there in terms of his revenue, but it's literally just because he treats this like honestly how people should treat college or people should treat. Like an education is rigorously study the material. Like if you had to learn a language, you're not going to lazy dick the fucking language. Like you have to really immerse yourself.
This is the difference between people who win and people who don't. So it's the kind of questions you ask. If I tell Eamon to do something, the kind of follow up question he will ask will be like, how, how, how much? How to. Yeah, other people, if you're gonna fail, typically I'm gonna tell you to do something and you're gonna be. And then you just come back with, no, that's not gonna work. Because of this. Yeah, it's like you, you, you, you're like challenging me. Like you're in an argument with me where it's like, no, like, well, what about this, what about this, what about this? And like you're trying to, you're trying to like challenge the thing I'm. As opposed to, okay, well, how do I do the day? What is, what is the point of challenging, like what I'm saying, telling you to do, like it works. I'm only. Last night, I'm only telling you to do it because I have done it. Like I literally do that. Why, why should I do that? Because it works. There's no other reason. Yeah, it's like it doesn't matter. Why it matter. Like the functional reason as to why I'm telling. I'm not going to sit here and someone asked me for some piece of advice. I'm not gonna give you something I don't 100% believe is absolutely correct. There would be no reason I'm functionally, I wouldn't be like, oh, do this. And like, I know it doesn't work.
I don't know, maybe that'll work. Yeah.
Why? Why should I do that? Because it works. That's it.
That's it. I'm even, I'm even being self aware enough to realize, oh man, I was kind of doing that last night. Not like, arguing though, over it. I was just like, I just want.
To know why, why, why, why? I'm like, I don't know. Just do it and watch it.
And then it.
Well, it happens all the time. Yeah, they'll be doing that. I'm like, bro, just do it. Do it right now. Specifically right now.
I think this is a really good point to transition to because, like, you know, I look at it like you have someone like Eamon who just everything, he's down with it. And I was talking with my friend Jesse Alder on the phone today, and I was saying how, you know, I think that the clients that come to you are often a reflection of you in some way, shape or form. The way they're buying is the way you buy. And if you can understand that one concept right there, I mean, that changes the game for you, honestly. But I noticed I was getting on calls and I saw this theme where people are saying, yeah, I've joined programs, but I haven't necessarily followed it 100%. I maybe have done some of it and not even finished it. I was like, this is weird. It's like a theme popping up. And then I kind of looked at it and I was like, oh, man, I have a few programs that I've gone through and I've done that as well. And so I was like, okay, I think I need to change that. If I want people who are gonna follow my shit to a T0 wavering in any direction or going a different route, I need to do the exact same. So I'm curious to hear from your perspective. Like, have you seen that pattern in your own life of like the mirror, like, how you buy, how you act is usually like a reflection of your business?
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Most people in clients sense, I just tell them to do something, they just do it. Yeah, like, pretty much. Because, I mean, it might just be off. A lot of people will come through just 100% off the content I post on the Internet. They might resonate with it and they might just be under the operating framework of I'm just going to do whatever this guy tells me to do.
And.
And that's typically I'm going to do. I'm going to do what Daniel says, what Andre says, what, what, what David says, what Christian says. I'm going to follow it 100% to a T. And then they come in and it just ends up working.
Let's. Let's talk about some of the coaches in ca. I think we've really done this in a long form. Bit, I think. I mean, there's obviously you in there that's. We've already done you for the past. How long we been rolling for?
20 minutes.
20 minutes. 20 minutes have been about Daniel, basically.
Jamie, pull that up. Jamie, pull that shit up. Jamie.
Let's start with Andre, though. Like, someone that's coming into ca. Like, how are they going to benefit from Andre? What's like the. The benefits of listening to Andre and how can he help someone?
Yeah. So if you're. If I don't know what book this is from, but you kind of have, like every successful company typically has this arrangement where there's kind of like a visionary type person and then integrate rocket.
Rocket fuel.
Like, rocket fuel. Andre is kind of the integrator in client center. He pieces everything together, makes the systems behind it, like all the operational infrastructure to like, sustain what's happening from like the. The weed flow pumping in and whatnot. So that is. Andre teaches how to make those systems. And like, if you were to take it for instance, you have like 20 clients or something, and every single client needs some specific set of things that need to be done at some specific set of time and some specific sequence with a bunch of other people integrating inside the system. It's super confusing if you don't know how to do it right. So Andre will essentially. You can hop on a call with Andre and he will literally just build out a client management system for you. He's just going to ask you questions. So, okay, so this client has to do this, this, this, this, this. Okay, so here's what we'll do over here. We're going to make sure that this. Well, what's the trigger for that? Oh, this happens over here. Okay, so you use Zapier to go over here and you want to like, sync this over to your Slack channel. When you check this off, you want to give a notification to this kind of person. So what's the bottleneck here? Oh, I'm having a lot. It's taking a lot of time to do this. So it's like, oh, okay, so, all right, let's make a hiring scorecard real quick for someone who would do just this specifically. And here's, here's what you're going to put in the scorecard. Here's the questions you're going to ask in an interview. Here's where you're going to source the people and then you get them in. And then it's like the management of those. Of those people, making sure they actually do the thing on time. So it's all of that kind of stuff. Or it's like, it's the systems where it's like you're making an operational infrastructure as to how you do the fulfillment of every single client you sell. Right now I'm more on the end of here's how you get them in the first place. You see what I mean?
Yeah. It's like if it's the visionary, yours is the big picture of, okay, what do I need to say and what do I need to sell to get the person to. Okay, so we have you, we have Andre. Let's go to Daniel. What is, what does Dan help with inside of the program?
Dan's kind of silent and he's, he's.
Does he have a call?
David and Connor run it. Yeah. So they're like sales. So it's like, all right, now you're getting leads coming through the door. Now how do you, how do you operate a sales process? And it's not just like what do you say in a call? But like a full like infrastructure. What do you say when someone do you. Should you set a follow up call here? How do you, how do you do the follow ups? Like what, where should you be hitting them up and just operating an actual structure of doing sales. Like what do you say to them to like spark interest back up? It plays so heavily into marketing in the first place. Sales and marketing. Marketing is just sales to many people at the same time and sales is just operating it to one individual person. That's it. And like typically what happens if you start getting. You're. You. You'll start getting objections, like the same kinds of objections on a call continuously over and over and over and over again. It's like, all right, wouldn't it be a good idea to make all marketing assets that handled that. Objection. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
100. Okay, so we got that. And then Nick Abraham has a call as well.
That's. Yep, that's legion. So it's like cold email stuff. And like, I mean that's a super smart dude. It's super smart. I love this concept of like people will be on Twitter or something like that. And they're like, all you have to do is get 30 domains and send a hundred thousand emails. And it's like, no, like that's not it. There's, there's some other kind of really interesting stuff where you can use AI to do this. And you scrape, scrape leads from this source because it's hyper relevant. And then you inject the relevance inside of the email and like Other kinds of triggers like, like really actually advanced stuff that you wouldn't think about. Sometimes Nick would. I'll be on a call with Nick sometimes and he'll just like drop this one thing. I'm like, dude, that's so smart. I'm like, we need to make a video of that right now in client center. He's like, okay, just like spins it up in like eight minutes. And then there's just a bank of extremely intelligent ways to operate cold emails inside of client ascension. It's just like a, just, just go through this and look at all the, all the interesting ways people are specifically getting results with cold email right now. So this is, this is another kind of thing that goes back to the conversation we were having earlier. Nothing is going to go in that bank unless there is data that it's working where you can see an exact example of it and the stats behind it and the full A to Z instructional tutorial of how to execute it. And then if you still have some questions, you can message us or you can come on the call and literally watch it again. That he's, he's so smart. Nick Abraham is probably Nick Abraham. Christian. Christian Bonnier is one of the best Cody Mole writers on the planet.
Nick has a call as well.
Yeah, Christian has a call as well. Nick Abraham is probably just the best like cold email Miller product. Just like le. Like, yeah, direct outbound sales. He's so, so good at it. It's absolutely insane. So if you just take a distribution of like Andre Christian, Nick Abraham probably have sold hundreds of different offers, do hundreds of different, different audiences and just like the raw amount of different things have, that have been sold with outbound marketing between all of them is, is absurd.
It's like, you know, yes, there's different ways that you have to sell a different product, but at the end of the day, sales is fundamentally all the same in that there's a problem, there's a solution, the person wants and there is a gap. And your product is supposed to bridge the gap. And that's it.
That's it.
That's literally it. It can be that simple. But obviously there's the intricacies of how do you explain the problem? How do you understand their problem? Everything. So let's talk about Christian. Christian literally writes the cold emails for you that you then will send out to people, correct? Not like every single fucking company. Some will need a little bit more custom. But he does like write out your just general script that you're going to send out. How did you Meet Christian and how did he come into coaching for the program?
Through Andre. So he works at Andre's. They work together. They run cold email agency together. And I think it was. I met Andre because I ran some group a really long time ago and Andre was in the group. And even then at that point Andre was putting together like assets like explaining to people like, here's how you do cold email. Right. And he had like a, like a trello board of this resource. This, this, this, this, this integrator. Yeah, yeah. And he's, he was just constantly running the business for a really long time. It just grew very steadily over and over and over and over again. I'm like, yo, this guy is like really, really smart. He works with Christian and Dan.
Yeah.
At their agency. So we paired up and made Ascension. Yeah.
So then after that I'm just kind of walking through the entire process. We got Steven Trister, I hope I'm saying his last name right. Steven Tristhen does vsl. So Stephen was originally, I believe a voice acting coach and then from there got started in the VSL world and now helps out and get the script together for your vsl.
Yep. Yeah. Basically have a. He is. He has like a full on template of like you want to fill it in here and here and here and here. And what you kind of do is like based on your offer. Because you come into Client Ascension, you're getting on a call with me and we're going to like certify your offer. Like this is what you are selling and here's the headline. And then what you, what you're kind of doing is you're putting those components inside the vsl and then there's a guide. All right, here's how you design it and then you're going to record it and then you're going to send it to Steven and you can send your script to Stephen. He'd be like, you make sure you change this. This is. Then you're going to, then you're going to record it and you're send the recording to him. He's like, no, like you're not saying it correctly right here. Right. It's all to optimize people actually completing watching the vsl.
Yeah.
So that's what, that's what he does. Yeah, he's really, he's really good. His VSL script works.
Yep. So we have Steven and then after that I'm trying to think who else. We have the mindset. I'm spacing his name.
Mario Lanzarote.
Yeah, Mario. So How. How did Mario come into play? And why did you guys decide to bring in a mindset coach for the program?
Yeah, I think Andre has been working with him for, like, two years or something like that. Yeah, he has, like, a TED talk with, like, 2 million views or something like that. I think he worked at Google for a little bit, like, literally doing, like, mindset, like, executive leadership stuff at Google, which is pretty cool. So he's a really cool guy. Everyone loves his calls. Yeah, everybody loves his calls. So that's. Yeah.
Well, I mean, mindset's a huge portion of. It's like 50% of what gets the. You know, the ball across the goal line.
It actually is, which is just so funny because I was never like that. I never needed done. Yeah. Yeah. But every time I. I actually engage in something like that, I'm like, wow, that definitely wasn't a mistake, and 100 was not a waste of time. And I was like, wow, this is actually really cool. So if somebody's like. If somebody's like, me, and they think they're like that, and then you go to a call like Mario's, you're never gonna be upset. You're like, oh, wow, this is like. This is actually so completely true. Like, this was great.
Yeah. Yeah. So then we have. After that, I'm trying to think who else there is. I mean, we could go to Dakota. You want me to explain? Dakota.
Dakota.
Dakota's my boy. I love Dakota. So Dakota, basically what he does is. I mean, he has a fat following on Twitter, and he just understands, like, okay, Twitter is very basic. You got your tweets, get your threads, you got. You're just like, over. Hey, quiet on set. Filming over here, guys.
Mouth.
I just took out his headphones. He's like, what? No, no, we're just saying, quiet on set. That's all. Yeah. So, yeah, like, Dakota just breaks down Twitter. It's just such a simple way to understand it. And, like, I can just be the living testimonial for that. I literally just did what he was talking about. I came into the program with maybe 400 followers on my Twitter. I have 5,000 followers now.
So easy.
It's. All I did was just. I did. I just did. I don't even do 100% of it. Like, I mean, because there's some days I would just, like, not post or something like that. Like, I wasn't doing it every fucking day. But still, like, now it makes me think, what if I just did this every single day nonstop? So Dakota is amazing for That I think that overall, like, you know, if you want to learn Twitter growth from someone, I think just go to someone who really understands it. And that's literally what he offers as a service for ghostwriting as well. So he got Dakota, then we got the launch social boys. We got Nick Rogers and Logan. Do you want to explain Nick and Logan's role inside?
Yeah, it's. It's also kind of like content creation and specifically ideation of content and say, like, for instance, we do this inclinations where I'm like, hey, you guys need to make sales assets. So it's like, okay. Then it goes back to the question, like, how do you make content? And like, what is the idea behind the sales asset? Which is kind of like something else I want to touch on. And that every thing you put on the Internet is kind of a sales letter.
Like sales asset.
It's a sale. Every single thing you put is a sales asset. So it's like, okay, if you do some. If you make a YouTube video, it's a sales letter, like 100%. If you make an auto DM, it's a sales letter. Like, if you make a long form.
Letter, it's sales asset.
Yeah, it's a sales asset. It's. How do you make content that invokes a direct response action? Yeah, like, what do you need to say to get people to buy your stuff? Like, how do you attract the kind of person who would purchase it? And how do you get them interested and then lead them to a call?
Well, let me, let me, let me clear this up because I'm. I'm working on a really long PDF right now that's like a. Basically just a doc talking about everything you need to know to, like, get started in marketing and selling. Marketing as a service. And one of the things I wrote down was like the difference between branding, indirect response, and people like, will go their entire career not knowing. Well, I know direct response is like copy, but like, what is direct response? And I had someone asking us. They were like, I've been doing this for like three years. I don't even really know what direct response is. And I'm like, it's what the name is direct response. You're going for a direct response meaning like, hey, Daniel, would you like to go to the bar? Yes. That's direct response versus branding, which is like, Ford built different or built tough, whatever, Dodge, whatever, whichever one truck company that is. And that's it. There's no call to action. Maybe the local dealerships would be like, we have a New special going on with trucks or whatever. It's a little bit direct response Y. But overall, like, when Coca Cola makes a thing, there's no, like, hey, order a six pack right now. Scan this QR code. Although they should do that then. I mean, be easy, Be very simple. Coke, if you want to hire us as consultants, just let us know. Just let us know. We'll come in. But yeah, like, direct response can be as simple as that. And I think most people, though, when you think about things from that perspective of like, all right, I'm going for a direct ask from this person to try and get something, you know, then, yes, you can view every single thing you're doing from the perspective of a sales asset. It's a direct. Direct response asset where you're trying to get there some form of action on it. Yeah.
Okay, so let's, let's. I'll do like a little practice to make it extremely useful to the audience. Let's say that you want me as the example used before. You want me to go to the bar, right?
Yep.
Now, let's say, let's go somewhere more.
Wholesome, like the library.
No, no, no, no.
The bar, okay.
No, we're going to the bar.
We're going to the bar. We're getting hammered.
We're getting a table. So let's say that it's someone you don't really know too well. Maybe you never gone out with them. Like, what you would probably do as the direct response. You want them to go to the bar as the direct response action you probably put as the sales letter. Like, just literally the offer. The offer will be, hey, do you want to go to the bar? And they might say yes, they might say no. But now let's say you have some group of friends who typically don't go out a lot. Maybe you were friends with them a while back. And so that's your audience. Like, you know, like, they're busy. Like, maybe they don't really go out a lot. So you're going to have to adjust the offer just a little bit more. So instead you can't just lead with, do you want to go to the bar? You have to make it more enticing as to why they would. Like, what are they going to get from going to the bar? So you would lead it with something like, hey, guys, we just got a table at the bar. There's a bunch of girls coming over here. You're not going to have to pay. I'd really like to see you. That's a way different offer guaranteed or you don't pay. Yeah. That literally has a risk reversal. It does. So it's like you're going to get this and there's a risk.
You'll have to pay.
Yeah, that's a risk reversal.
Yeah.
It just makes the offer more enticing based on the specific audience. And this kind of morphs into like market sophistication.
Yeah.
So that would be an example of like a sophisticated market. Say it's like, I don't know, your old college buddies and you guys are out 100 times. They've been out hundreds of times. You're 27.
Such a good man metaphor for it. Like, do you have someone who's 21? They just turned 21. You're like, hey, do you want to go to the bar? Yes, immediately. Then they've been to hundreds of bars at their near out. 27, 28.
They're seeing all the bars.
That's the equivalent of you're selling short form content to someone who's been doing short. They've been sold three times by three different short form content agencies.
And that's not to say it's like someone is short form content saturated. Well, it's probably not saturated to the people who make New York Times bestseller books and they want to build a brand on the Internet. Like, it's definitely not saturated to them. It's 100% saturated to Internet marketers. Like, it 100% is where it's like people making YouTube videos already or somebody who has already posted short. There's just different audiences.
You, you had an email that you sent out where we talked about this and it was like, imagine that you go out to the street. You're out with your friends, right? And you go out and you're out on the street and you guys are like, oh, man, I'm so hungry. Yeah, we didn't eat. None of us ate. And then you're like thinking, where do we go? And there's a bunch of really good restaurants around you, right? And then there's just one though, that's packed with a line around the curb. And you guys are like, let's go to that one right there. That is the equivalent of you going, I'm going to go do short form content for coaches and consultants. You're going to the most packed restaurant. How do you know that some real estate person, they're not like, they kind of are doing that. Maybe a bad example, but you know, some other niche isn't just as good for your services and does not have 60,000 people doing the exact same service. I get at least minimum every single day. 3 DM. Someone pitching me for short?
Dude, so do I, bro. They'll comment on my short form content.
Yeah.
Hey, do you need a short form content editor? It's like, obviously not.
Yeah, I'm doing this.
Is there a better value proposition? Like, it's hyper relevant. Yeah, yeah, it is. It's hyper. It is because I'm definitely posting it. But if you just say, hey, do you need short form content? Like, that's not a powerful enough of a value proposition. Like, why would I work with you? Like, is there a different mechanism or a different end result that you could give me some other. Like, it just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, like people just don't. You need to have an awareness around what is the sophistication level of the market. And this kind of goes back, I was talking about this to you earlier, where if this was so easy a year ago, you could literally say to every single person on the planet, like, hey, do you want to do short form content? It would work really, really well. So what I kind of do with client ascension when I was explaining to you is I have people make their stuff just straight to the most sophistication, maximum sophistication, where it's like your headline and your offer is specifically, it's a claim and a risk reversal because that is what will convert the people at the highest max level of sophistication. So you might as well just go straight there.
Yeah.
Because at some point, whatever unique mechanism you have, it's not going to work anymore. So just go straight to the end. Like sophisticate the market. You're entirely by yourself all the way to the end.
Yeah, I mean, I think about it when it comes to like overall market sophistication, it's something that a lot of people don't understand. Well, mainly because they're not studying copywriting. Like, they're not as in the trenches as either me or you are. So I think the best way to explain sophistication is basically like this. You are either first to market, you are second to market. You're either now competing with other people. Okay, so now you start to compete on mechanisms. Who has the better system? Okay, once you're competing on mechanisms, this is now where it's like, okay, you make a mechanism now it's who can make the better mechanism. Okay, that's like the same thing. It's 1, 2, 1, 2. Okay. The last phase of market sophistication is basically where it's like everyone's tried everything. Social media marketing agencies are basically at that level now.
Every single get rid of the mechanism.
Yeah, it's now you restart basically from the screen. You have to try unique methods. And I actually want to talk about this because one of my friends, you know, I kind of like sometimes posting up some of the messages I get from people where they'll be like, hey man, you want to hop on a call? No messages before that at all. Just like I love getting on calls, I have no context about at all. But no, like they'll ask a question like that and I'll post it up, be like, this is the worst cold DM I've ever gotten. My friend messaged me, he's like, this is the equivalent of you laughing at the fat person at the gym. And I was like, alright, that's fair. That is kind of mean. So I feel like giving some value to the people who may be struggling with cold outreach is the best way to look at this. So what Daniel said about, you know, it may be relevant. Every single cold DM that you send out needs to be three things. Relevant, thoughtful and valuable. If you are relevant, thoughtful and valuable, like think about it like this. Imagine a line and it's just linearly going like this and on the left hand side what you have is response rate and on the, the x and Y axis. And then you also have it where it's now like time to craft the message. It takes a lot longer for you to craft a thoughtful, relevant, valuable message than it does to just do something that's relevant. Right? Because you actually have to think through what you're saying. When I say relevant, it's like, okay, if you hit someone up and you're like, hey, do you want to do short form content to grow your brand? And they have a brand that's relevant. Thoughtful means you actually looked at their brand, saw what they're doing, see, oh, they're running a webinar. Okay, hey, do you want to use short form content to promote your webinar by actually pitching your webinar in that, okay, now it's thoughtful. Now how do you actually make it valuable? Usually in the case of a service based business, like what you say and what I say is just literally just do like give them a sample. Here's what I think we could do. It doesn't even need to be a piece of the free work. Like if you're like, oh, it takes me too long, build out the strategy and do bubbles and shit with like arrows, build out the entire strategy. And this is what I was thinking that we could do, make it valuable. They need to be able to visualize it. Because I think what a lot of people don't realize is that like writing is a visual medium. When I'm writing and I know someone's like, I thought it's like, you know, it's, I'm reading it. No, like when I, when you're reading something, it's in your head. Like a, literally a movie is playing in your head as you're reading it. That's why the best writing is visual. It's like, oh, I can see everything. So as you're moving through the copy, even if it's just a cold outreach email, they need to be able to see what the hell you're talking about. How does this apply? And literally giving them the thing like a cold email or like, like, I mean a written out email. If you're hitting up people for email or piece of short form content or a strategy, like an outline for it. So one of the best ways for you to actually get a response rate.
And this, this is what I tell people all the time. Because so many people just want to spin up some list of 5,000 people in a, in a cold DM automation and just like spew out time to print.
It's just time to print.
But what you need to do instead is think of how can you create some kind of relevant, thoughtful message and then extrapolate it to thousands of people more easily?
Yeah.
And even what's actually really funny about it is that if you, if you did just take the concerted and effort of outreaching thoughtfully and with a relevant message to 100 people, you're going to close one of them. Yep, one of them is going to close. And it will have taken you a little bit more time on the front end, but it will have saved you so much time on the back end.
Well, because it's not about responses, it's about booked calls and sales. Right.
And you'll about sales people. People optimize for they're volume. Yeah, just volume for the sake of volume. It's like, bro, just, just try a little like put in actual effort. Like everyone wants to automate everything and it's like, dude, like sometimes like that's just going to screw you.
Well, I think a lot of this comes from the fact that what you have on money, Twitter is, I mean think about it, it's kind of flat, right? There's not a lot of context into it, there's not a lot of depth because you're just seeing someone, oh, they're doing that and they don't understand it. You have to understand that especially with marketing, you know, it's different with different services. But I can speak from the experience of copywriting offering a marketing service to someone. You are stepping in as the voice of someone's brand to bring in the customers that will pay their bills. That's a very intimate thing that you're doing. How is that person supposed to know that they can trust you when they don't know who you are? This is also why I say that like you should have referral based business coming in. When I look at, you know, I counted up, I have it where I did every single invoice I've ever like close every single bank deposit everything. It was $880,000 over the course of like 4ish years. And at least 600,000 of that is all referrals. People just being sent to me, hey, Nick's the guy, next the guy. And they would just send me it. That comes from you actually doing the work and providing a really good service. This is two areas that I think a lot of guys, they just a, they don't realize the intimacy level of like, hey, you actually do need to put more time into this because if you do, you stand out. And also on top of that, that's what that person wants. But two, like it is so much more than cold email and getting the client. It's fulfilling such a fucking insane level of a service that they're like, I'm going to tell all my friends about this because they don't have to like you to work with you. They do have to like you to refer you to friends.
Yep. Yeah, it's so true. If someone it, let's take the person and they want to, they rip up a list of 10,000 people, they get a bunch of domains and they spew out messages and hello sir, it's, it's typically the kind of person who wants to do that, like they're, they're, they're not putting any effort and typically they're not going to do a particularly good job with their service. If you did 100 extremely personal, relevant outreach messages and followed up with them very, very elegantly, I guess you could say, without being annoying, you're going to sign one of them. Like you 100% actually are going to sign one of them. And if you do a very concerted, elegant again job of making sure that they have won a Good experience with you. Like, they just actually like you. And two, you actually try extremely hard to do a very, very good job for them. Nobody, nobody buys something, has a really good experience, gets really good results, and doesn't tell other people. Basically, it's ever. It doesn't happen because you're, you're going to sell it to some business owner. They talk to other people. At some point, they're just gonna say, someone's gonna ask, hey, who do you do for that? Like, you're getting good results. Like, who? Oh, this guy. Like, I can connect you with him. And that's all it takes. That's all it takes. And her mosey was talking about this. Where word of mouth, there's bad word of mouth and there's good word of mouth. If you have bad word of mouth, it will get increasingly harder and harder and harder and harder forever to get more clients. And the best way to visualize this, if you're running ads, let's say you're hitting the whole market, it's easier to visualize it like this. Not everyone will be doing this, but it exists in even smaller scales. Your ad cost, acquired, cost to acquire a customer will continuously go up. Because what's happening is that somebody is talking. Hey, I'm like, looking at this guy stuff over here, like, if any of you guys work with him.
Yeah.
Do you know? Oh, yeah, I heard it sucks. Like, oh, okay, fine, I won't. That's all it takes.
Yeah, that's.
That's all it takes. And now on the flip side, hey, I heard, like, I'm in this guy stuff. Like, what do you think about it? Oh, yeah, I heard that guy does, like, really good stuff. That's all it takes. Yeah, that's all it takes, bro. So people optimize for everything besides the things that actually matter. And it's client experience and client results. And I kind of want to talk about that because it's something I've. I've just started to understand very deeply as of late. Like, maybe in the past, like nine months or so, if you get really good results for a client but you, you never talk to them, like, maybe, maybe you're kind of a dick or they just don't like you for whatever reason, or like you aren't transparent about what's happening. You don't get back to them, whatever. They just, they never build a relationship. It's not that they hate you, it's that they just don't have a relationship with you. But say you're getting them really Good results. Like, very, very good results. What's going to happen is they're going to say, you're a lead gen agency. I just use it as an example. They're going to associate those results with. Oh, every lead gen agency just gets results. That will be their context of what Legion agencies do. So some other Legion agency comes along and they go to and you're making them 30k profit a month.
They got to like you.
Yeah, yeah. Some other Legion agency comes along, you're making them 30k profit month. They say, oh, I can make you 50k profit per month. That's all it takes.
That's all it takes.
That's all it takes. They're just, okay. But if they like you.
Yeah.
If you're hitting them up like every two weeks, like, hey, like, how's business going? Just want to check up, make sure everything's all good, how's the family, whatever, and you actually kind of like, are cool with them, then it's a different story. They're not going to churn just because they like you. Yeah, like that's a thing. That's a real thing.
Yeah. Well, this is one thing that I like about, like our like, working relationship together is that outside of, okay, hey, I. We have these things we got to get done, right? It's like, hey, how are you doing? Like, what's going on? We can talk about like life and just random shit and then just go in whatever direction we go to. And I think, like, honestly, that's something that, when I look back at earlier phases in my career where I was just not really understanding, like, you know, you get the material and it's like, hey, do A. And then you're like, okay, I think I understand A, but really, you're doing like, h. Like you're in the fucking other quadrant of it. I used to think that you shouldn't have friendships with your clients because it's like, whoa, dude, you don't wanna get that mixed up and everything. You have to be able to hold the right frame. It's like, honestly, all of the best clients I've had, I'm friends with, I could actually just chat with them and just bullshit and have a good time. But then we also just get our shit done. There's no problem with being friends with your clients. It's that just handle your shit always and always get the thing done. You should be like, what you said, like, autonomous or whatever. I strive for this with my service delivery. Whenever I'm offering a service to a client, I don't ever have to, like, hit someone up and be like, hey, man, I said, I'm gonna get it done today. But every single time, it's done every single day, it's on time every single day. You know, on Sunday, you're getting shit for me every single time. Like, it never. Doesn't happen. Right? So it's like, for me, I think that when people look at, okay, well, what does it look like? You look at the end goal and then reverse engineer from there. If I were to craft a really good service, what would it be? You get results. It'd be on time, always with the things. It would be quality. Right. The person would like it. And then I think above all else, like, it would just show that you're putting in the work. You're doing the shit.
Yes.
You're not just like, all right, cool. And then you're. You're off to.
Sometimes people. What people have a hard time doing is like, I'll just use an example as another we gen agency. You're not being transparent about what you're doing. And what I mean by that is, like, you might be delivering results, but you're not showing it. And what I mean by that is.
They can't see that there's a effort.
Yeah, you're not showing them that you're making an effort where it's like, how about every Friday you tell them, all right, here's what happened this week. And based off that, we're gonna. We're gonna do this next week to try to optimize this. And then on Monday, it's like, all right, so this is. This is all systems fire ready to go. We're gonna see how the results work out this week. And then it's Friday. Okay, so this ended up working really well. I saw this, though. So I think I'm gonna try this out to see if we can extract something from here. And then you're narrating what you're doing. You just can. You're just constantly narrating what it is, and you're just showing transparency and that you're actively making a concerted effort to give them a good experience. That's what a good experience is. There's too many people who are so dark, and they just don't like. They're like. They're scared of the client. And it's like, bro, what are you doing?
Well, I think it's. It's two things. It's either when they hit them up to ask for results, what's going to happen is either a There won't be good results or B, the results will be really good. And they're like, I'm undercharging. So they're either A, scared or B scared they're undercharging, or A, that they suck. They're not good at what they do. And you have to actually confront that and find out what you're doing. Like hit up your clients, hey, what have we seen from X, Y, Z. Because then that's how you actually be able to see, okay, either I need to raise my rates or I need to get better what I'm doing and change my game plan. Like, it's, it's so ass backwards to me that people will take money from a client and then it's like, you're not getting them a result though. And they're just like, well, you know, I'm doing this, this and that. Are you getting them a result, though? Well, no, but I'm. That's the only question that matters. Are you getting them a result? If you are, it doesn't matter how you're doing it. They may want to know and you may want to give the context to it. But above all else, people don't buy your shit because 60 pieces of short form content with two hours a week, they don't give a fuck about that. They buy it because of the outcome that they want.
It's so much of the time though, it's that people just aren't actually trying to, like, they're actually not trying. You have to try so, so hard because you're just not as good as you can be in the beginning.
This is, I think, another reason to do what we were talking about earlier with the outreach messages that are thoughtful, relevant, valuable, because, okay, if someone hits me up with that and I can tell like what you're saying, they're not, like, they don't get it right. I will actually help that person because I can tell you put time into it and you're at least helping yourself. Like, I will help someone that's helping themselves. But I think for the most part people like, they don't do that. That's why you don't get feedback. The best part of doing outreach that way is people will respond back to you and say, hey, Mike, I really appreciate you doing this. Like, thank you, we're not in need of this right now. Here's my thoughts overall and you can just. Even if they say not interested right now, thank you though. Just send them back. Really curious. If I could just have one moment of your time. Like, what would make this offer a slam dunk for you? They'll likely respond to you because you.
I would. Yeah, I would. I would respond to that because you're.
A good person and you're like, you know what? It takes me fucking five minutes to help this person. Why not even less probably than that.
Yeah, yeah. If you shouldn't, like, hide what you're trying to do. Where it's like. What I mean by that is someone says, hey, bro, like, I'm. I'm. I'm really not interested in this. And it be like, okay, yeah, yeah, fair enough. But just as a future reference, like, I'm trying to grow up this business. Like, what. What would make people like, you interested? Like, what would have to change? I'm going to respond to that. I actually am. I can give you an example. Some dude was hitting me up for YouTube stuff, and he was telling me, hey, dude, like, I think. I think you get way better videos and whatnot. And I think I saw this. Yeah, dude just fumbled the bag so hard, and he was just explaining to me, and he just. He. He couldn't explain what it is he does. And I was like, what is. So he's saying, yeah, I can make your YouTube better. I'm like, cow. He's like, oh, well, I'll make it, like, look really nice and, like, I'll make sure the, like, people watch the. The whole video through and, like, give you a YouTube strategy. I'm like, well, like, do you do the editing? And he goes, I make, like, components of the editing. And then I'm like, well, do you write this? Yeah. And he goes, well, I'm like, do you write the script? And he's like, no, like, you. You have to write the script. And I'm like, then what do you do? He's like, well, I make the strategy. I'm like, what does that mean, though? Like, what. What is making me the strategy mean? He goes like, well, it's a strategy to help you do better on YouTube. But I'm like, what do you do, though? Yeah, like, what do you. I do like, what is. How. What do you do? And he was getting angry at me and he's. And I'm like, go, like, show me some stuff you do. And he shows me some other stuff. It was like. It was like a. Like a recording of something from, like, National Geographic or something. He's like, I. I helped on this. I'm like, what did you do on it? He's like, oh.
I was like, I made the strategy.
I Was like, strategy behind it. I'm like, but you don't write the script and you don't look, edit it.
Dude, are you coming with the hook?
He keeps hitting me up. And he's like. And he was. And he goes, all right, I'm going to make a strategy for you and, like, you can take a look at it. Let me know what you think. I'm like, okay, cool. And then he hits me up in a week, like a week later. And he goes, hey, man, like, I just want to, like, make sure you want the strategy. I'm like, yeah, like, send me the strategy. He's like, okay, well, let me know when you want to hop on a call. I don't really want to hop on a call with you. Just like. Because I don't know what you do. You don't even have a website. And he goes, well. Well, you're telling me, like, you're not gonna work with me because I don't have a website. You didn't ask for the website. And I'm like, well, show me your website. And he goes, whoa, I don't have a website. I'm like, what are you doing? Like, what? I'm like. I'm like. I'm like, this is the strangest conversation.
Like, the most dysfunctional approach.
I'm like, bro, like, I'm. I'm trying to help you. Yeah. Like, I will buy something for you, but you're not like, what am I buying?
Yeah.
And it's like, well, look, do you still want the strategy? I told you I wanted the strategy like, three times. Like, bro, what did help me help you? And it's like, there's so much dysfunction. And he's like, getting angry at me too. And he goes.
He goes, Angry at you? Yeah.
And he goes. He goes, well, you were really impressed with my work last week. And I'm like, no, I wasn't.
Yeah.
I'm like, I'm not National Geographic. Yeah, like, what? What are you selling me? It's like people just can't, like, conceptualize. Like, here's. Bro, here's what it is.
Here's what it is, guys. People don't care about your shiny shit. They do not care about, like, they don't care about all these little intricacies of like, yeah, I use this, like, four point AI system that nobody cares. Oh, I make 60 pieces of short form content in under two hours of someone. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. What do you do for me? I create omnipresence for you on all platforms so you never Leave your ideal customer that you're always harassing them. I'll buy that. That's what I want. Fucking you. Short form guys, are you listening? You're listening. Short form guys, they're not listening. There we go. Okay. Fucking giving them some sauce right now. What are we at for time? I think one thing we can end on because we're on the topic of reaching out to people and getting them on board with getting on a call with you. One of the things that I've noticed, and to me, this is very common sense, but to other people, not so much. So when you're reaching out to someone, one of the worst things that you can do, especially if you are a beginner and you don't have any results, is either to insult their work or to say that you could do it better.
It's the worst, bro.
They'll just be like. They'll be like, dude, I was looking at your YouTube. I just. I think that you could do so much better on it. And then they'll like you.
Like, don't specify how. Yeah, it's like when people say, like, give value. And what they mean by that is people will say like, bro, like, you're like, I know your YouTube videos aren't doing good. And it's like, like, you should work with me. And I'm like, wow. So fuck off.
Go fuck yourself. Yeah.
But instead, Eamon did this to me because he signed me for YouTube. And he goes, hey, you're on my Dream 100 list. Here's a big document of. Of all the videos that you would make. And then here's the scripting for the first video. And here's step by step, what you would need to do. And then deliver it to me. And that's. That's it. I was like, oh, wow. This is, like, actually really nice. It was like a structure for the video and, like, the specific points to hit on.
Did you hire him for it?
No. What.
What made you not pull the trigger on that?
Because I already have one. Again, this goes back to the guy I do have, gives me a good experience. You see what I mean? And I don't want to leave him because I like him.
Yeah.
See what I mean? So now, because he gives me a good experience. It's sticky. So it goes back. It goes back to that. You see what I mean?
