The Mathematical Process for Signing Clients and Hitting $100k/mo+ (Client Ascension Call Recording)

This video is a recording on one of my coaching calls from inside of Client Ascension. If you don't know who I am, my name is Daniel Fazio. I'm the co founder of ListKit, which is a software company and Client Extension, which is a coaching company for agency owners and B2B businesses. We just did $642,000 in cash collected in July. So if you make less money than that, you might get some usefulness out of this video. Go subscribe and then I'll start the video.

Now you can watch share. What's up dude? Dan, I got.

Got a question for you. I know the slinging deals thing from the, the offers section. Really, I love that. It got me really motivated. But as we've crafted our offer a little bit, we thought, okay, we'll just stick with that a little bit more. But frankly our, my agency is struggling a little bit. We're, we're still pretty new to the whole lead gen thing. We do cold email Legion and with the deliverability issues, everything, it's, it's taken a big hit and we're just simply not getting great results and we, there's a million things we could be doing better. But I just wanted to think, I wanted to get your opinion and if you think this is the best decision for us, we are thinking about going back to simply working for free again for a little bit just to test what actually we can get results for.

All right.

All right.

So I don't know.

So.

The, the problem. So you, you what you're gonna, that's not gonna solve the problem. It's gonna make the problem worse. Like you just need to get better at cold email. Like cold email is a tech game and you need to learn and start attending all.

I don't know, like, like Matt Giselle.

He has, he has a, a call.

I think, and he does it for a list kit. I think he, and he just talks about deliverability. So it's like if you talk to.

Literally anybody running a semi large cold email agency at all, a lot of their time is spent just tech stuff. And like Nick Abraham has a call every week here. So does, so does Matt Lucero who, who are all very competent around deliverability.

And what to do with the inboxes and what to do with the domains.

And you just need to actually become.

Competent at the thing. Like you just need to get better at cold email.

Like you just need part of it.

I think part of it is simply the offer that our clients are working with. We, we've been working with Staffing and recruiting agencies. And for us, we have been getting, last month we got seven meetings booked from less than 2,000 leads, which is pretty good. But the problem is we did, we sent double that for our clients and got between 0 and 2. So their offer is just simply not as good as ours is. That's what we're looking at. It's like, okay, well we could talk to the client and have them change the offer, but you know, they're not going to be super happy with that. I just, it's, their, their offer is just not as attractive because they're trying to, you know, get a 20% of the first year salary on a lawyer from some small law firm in the middle of nowhere. It's just not attractive. Yeah, that's one thing I was considering, but I don't know.

Correct. So you, you literally just have to.

Deny working with those clients and only work with clients who have better offers.

That's like literally what you just have to do. So it's, you know, it's the same thing with ads.

So I'll put it to you like this.

We, I, I, I, So I have to, the, the way you throttle ads is like, like you could just put.

More friction on the funnel. Like you can put like on a.

Type form, you can just.

Put more.

Questions or just deny more people. So like for instance, I have to, if someone, if someone has on the question, they put that they make less than $3,000 per month, but they say they can pay $2,000. I put even another question that says because we had a problem with people coming in and they're like, just like, oh, I just want to learn more on the call. So I was like, no, no, we're not doing that. So like I, I put another thing there that said you're going to pay $2,000 on this call. Are you ready to pay two thou? And this only, this, this only happens.

If they put that they, they make less than 3,000.

I say, you're going to pay $2,000 on this call. Are you 100% ready to do that? If they select no, just say, okay, well go watch like if you want to learn more and just like go on the call and see how it works.

Just go watch the video. I just, I just end it. Right?

So I'm, I'm just, I'm, I'm throttling. So like, yes, while you might get seven calls booked off of 2,000 leads.

For your own campaigns, it might be.

That like five of those people have.

Bad offers and only Two people have a good offer.

So like, so I'll put it to you like this. When, when, when you're this. You only do this when you're like really big. When you start to get like, like many calls per day is. You have to, at a certain point you have to separate out that. You have two sales teams. You have the setter team and you have the, the closing team and the setters just weed out the garbage from the closers. And because there's just so much garbage there, there really, there's. There's like 10 times more garbage than.

There is good leads.

So you need to like manually sift through these bitches. Like it's, it's a colossal pain in the ass. And it's, it's, it's like. It's like literally half of the work is just sifting through the shitty leads in the idiots. What, what you're doing is you're, you're booking these people in. You're not even looking at their website and you're just like, oh it. Like, yeah, I'll get, I'll get that. Like I'll work with that. And you know what a good offer is. What do you do? Like, and I mean even, even if you get them on the call, like you it and you learn from your mistakes now you know that a recruiting company who's gonna charge this amount up front and just like even just a recruiting company at all isn't really the best thing.

It's more offshore talent companies work better.

Know now. I know now.

That's what I'm saying. You know now. So like what now what would have happened is like if you had asked me, hey, I have this client, it's a recruiting.

Should I take them? And this is how they charge a big. No, it's just not a good offer now.

But it just so happened that you didn't ask me for that exact kind of client. But you're, it's the beginning for you. So you don't really know. You don't know what offers are good or in.

In, in what or not.

The hard part is too like in April, we just crushed it in April. We booked six meetings in two weeks for the client. Like right off the get go. We're just getting started and then all of a sudden everything with the deliverability crisis just went to. Went well.

Yeah, that, that, that could be, that could be.

That could be contributing it towards it too now. I mean that's like, I just, like.

This is just a reality of life.

And that's not, that's not unique to cold email.

Literally. Yeah. Every single thing always has like it doesn't matter what kind of marketing mechanism you're doing. Like every single thing has a catastrophic.

Change once every like 18 months. Every single thing does this.

So like for instance, one of them like for Facebook ads like that was iOS 14. It completely everything up and everyone who was good became terrible just like that. Like everything that they ever did that they got made millions of dollars from.

Immediately stopped right there. Yeah.

And then, and then for like e commerce email marketing, it was the Apple click tracking like that, that, that's what did it to that.

No.

Now the cold email, this has happened twice, right. And then, and, and then Google for YouTube ads. It was when you could stop targeting. You couldn't target specific keywords or, or, or specific channels or specific videos anymore. It was all automated.

You couldn't do any of that anymore.

So there, there's. Every single thing has a catastrophic change that whips everything around in, in the literal sense, shakes people out because they cannot figure out how to make it work anymore. So you can either choose to be one of the people who are shaken out or you can be one of the people who religiously talks to Nick Abraham. Lori, who's in this call right now, Matt Giselle, Matt Lucero. And you go to their stuff and you, and, and you see what they're doing to fix their. You're doing whatever test they're doing. It's a whole colossal shit ton of work. So, so I want you to imagine this like, like this, this whole deliverability changed up and you had to what change fucking three clients. Imagine Nick Abraham dude, who has like I know 190 active fucking clients. Like this is like, this is like a whole ass like surprise. You have no idea like how, how much fucking shit you have to change. Like you sit. It's like literally, I'm not Even kidding.

Like 400 hours of work and you.

Need like three full time people cranking.

That out for like a week straight.

Just to change something that you don't even know is going to work yet. It's just an experiment. Like let me try to do this instead.

You see what I mean?

Like that's just the game. It, it, it dude. I remember. You know what was huge like two weeks ago. And it absolutely, absolutely cooked LinkedIn automation, bro, was crazy. It was crazy.

You could send like 300 connection messages a day.

No one was doing it. Crack the whole thing. Companies destroyed multi million dollar companies because they couldn't figure out how to how to go onto the like how to maneuver around it. But now there's a different kind of.

LinkedIn marketing agency that, that exists who.

Make millions of dollars in that way like this, this is just every single thing at all. And it always will be for everything every single person here does forever and always. So you've just gotta put your head.

Down and figure the shit out like you just do.

Okay.

And really what I'm hearing is three things. One, don't ever work with sucky clients or clients with bad offers. And I already knew that. Two, probably switch my niche who I'm targeting because recruiter's gonna suck. And three, just be dynamic.

Yeah.

So what I like to do, what we do for the list kit setup offer. Like if I, I made a document.

Let me show it to you.

Actually it would actually be useful for.

A lot of people here who work with clients. It's a doc called cold email expected results.

And I, I, I, I embedded a.

Loom on it and it basically says.

Like bad offer is one client for.

Every 20,000 to 100,000 emails.

Average offer, one client for every 5k to 20k.

Great offer, one client for every 1,000 to 5,000. And then I say what makes a great offer? Do you need to have case studies, social presence, specific claim and a guarantee? And then I, I just say if.

You have 0 or 1, you have a bad offer.

If you have 2 or 4, you have an average offer. If you have 3 or 4, you have a great offer, you have 4 or 4, you have a scalable company. I say and then I put like.

If you have two or less, it's.

Just completely useless to do any marketing at all.

You might as well just, just shut.

The company down if you're gonna like just only have do.

So. And what I tell the sales people is like I, I tell them to show people that like they're like what kind of results can I get? Well this is how it works. And then we like that list kit just has a broad, no guarantee for.

The cold most setup offer. Yeah.

For your instance you could have like a, you know, your performance basis.

So it actually doesn't matter at all.

What you could tell someone is if they only have two variables.

I, I'm gonna put, I'll put this document chat too.

But you can tell someone, hey, you have like looking at your stuff. This is how it works. This is the expected results. You only have two variables. It's just too hard to get your results. So like I'm a performance basis. So I Only get paid when you get results. But you're cut. You don't have this. This is this. So it's like, it's, it's just too capital inefficient to get your results.

I'll never profit working with you.

So if you want to do this while you don't have these results, I gotta get a retainer here to do it. And if, if you can't agree to that, I totally understand.

Like maybe you want to wait to put this stuff in here, but you're just not going to get results. And it would be a complete waste of my time and I'm gonna lose money.

And you've just gotta understand that that's.

Gonna be like 70% of the people you talk to. Like, it just is for sure.

I was on a call today with a guy basically in that same boat. They said that they, their business is completely flatlined and in the last year they've literally made zero sales. Zero sales in the last year. And there's like 30 people who work at this company and they want to implement cold email. And when I heard that, I remembered that some. Someone, it might have actually been you. Daniel basically said like, I cannot be your savior with my lead strategy.

I'm just going to like add.

Not going to save your company. But I still thought like after the call end, I was like, I don't want to work with this guy. He's poor. He's not going to. Doesn't have a good offer. The, the LTV is just too low for everybody I bring him. But maybe I should still take them on at cost just to get experience.

Okay, okay.

No, you, you.

You profit on every client.

You're supposed to profit on every client. You never lose money on the client.

Yeah, there's, there's no point.

Like you're just. That, that's just operating a scarcity mindset. Like it's literally, that's, that's literally what you're thinking.

Like there's no other leads.

I, I just gotta take this guy.

But like for what? For, for, for literally zero. Like you're just losing time. So you're losing money.

Like even at cost is losing money. You have time, you're expending time.

You're spending mental bandwidth. You're spending 20. Just all the little micro decisions you.

Need to make about this guy. Like it's, it. You're losing money when you do that. Just don't work with a bad offer.

There's just zero situation where it works.

You just, you just blanket. Don't do that.

But I guess the, the action step for, for me then just kind of pivot. Don't work with recruiters. Pivot to a different industry or like maybe like a broader lead gen for like multiple different sectors.

You know, there's, there's just so much B2B stuff that gets results. Like there was one guy, one time.

He had a software that helps like commercial buildings.

Optimize energy and it saves.

Them like tens of thousands of dollars on energy bills. And that guy cooked.

He was here in client ascension.

It's like.

Yeah, that's not like a niche.

Yeah.

Work with, I work with a SaaS companies who do commercial, commercial property energy optimization. Like that's not a niche. Like it's a B2B. It's, it's just, it's really not hard to know if it's a good offer like you, everyone here knows if it's a good offer. Like a recruiter who wants $20,000 up front for like it, it's, it's not like you just know it's not a niche. Like, like you can't pick that. Like it's just B2B.

Okay.

No, that makes sense. That makes sense. Okay, well I'll do some. See what we can, what we can come up with. I appreciate it and thanks for sharing that doc too. That I was just looking at it. That's awesome.

Yeah, that, that, that, that thing's great because I would. Because I, I mean that was. Because that was a, that was a. Like so that's not a performance offer. Like the Cody most out of this.

Kit is not a performance offer. It just isn't.

Now. So let me, let me put it.

To you guys like this.

The whole reason why a lot of.

You, when you're, when you're small, when.

You'Re a smaller company are told to be a performance basis or a guarantee is because it increases conversion rates. Because there's just a higher take rate on it. But more people are interested in something with less risk.

Like they would just take.

But so, so why is that? And the reason why you were told to do that is because traffic is expensive. Like it just is. So just to give you an idea.

Of the economics of the list kit setup offer, we pay.

$2,000 to acquire somebody who pays $2,000 on the phone call. And then we also have to pay.

The closer's commission which is like $200.

And then we have to pay all the, the hard cost of the fulfillment.

Team which is like another $200.

So it's like we're starting this off like negative $500 plus the work and then all of the profit gets made on the recurring subscription on the back end, which isn't even that wide of a margin. So what? So, so that's how like the, we can afford to do that. Like we're, we're literally buying that. Like that's the cost of not having a guarantee. You see, that's what you have to do instead if you're not going to have a guarantee. Like so like, so like we're using money and logistical ability to buy not having a guarantee. That's what we're doing. What you guys are doing is, is, is because you had the absence of logistical ability and money even to buy traffic, you instead buy deals with the stress of having a performance based guarantee in your offer.

Yep.

You're always paying in some way. You have to pay for it somehow. Even, even when, even when someone says yeah, I don't have a, I don't have a cost to acquire a customer.

I do organic.

It's like your time is money. You literally are buying people. Like you are buying traffic. Like what is your, what is, what is your dollars per hour? Like if, if it's $200 per hour and you spend five hours a day making content, you're spending a thousand, five times to. You're spending a thousand dollars a day. That's literally what you're doing. Like that is the cost of try. You're always paying somehow. Like it's so. Well this guy has that and I like this kid doesn't have the guarantee. Yeah. Because it's, it's purchased in a different way. Like in an economic fashion that you can't really afford when you're only making like 10k, 20k a month. It's just unreasonable. Like it's, it's like it's like a turbo risk thing.

Oh, that makes sense. It makes sense.

Yeah. The best way it's like.

But you.

Really won't start growing something until you like dissociate it from yourself as like a job. Like you're, you're like everyone, everyone is thinking like you're thinking of like the business income. It's like your personal income. And you do this in your time doesn't have a cost to it. So I don't do anything unless it can be hired out. So like I'll give you the literal fucking only manual things I am required.

To do me personally at all in fucking everything is this call and the Mastermind call at 11am on Wednesdays. It's.

It's. Those are the only two things in this entire operation between list kit and client center that I personally am required to do. Every single other thing either is out outsourced or is in the process of being outsourced. Do what I mean, but YouTube too, but I don't even. You see what I mean? It's every singular thing. I can have myself replacement Jeep.

What's up dude?

Yo.

So this kind of ties along with what you were saying before. I don't know if it's a question, but I wanted to hear your thoughts on this. I guess like being on these calls for like the past three, four weeks and like our, our recorded call, I feel like, like is it true that like getting to like your first 10, 20k is just a volume game of just doing like the same over and over again? Because I reason I'm asking this question is because like every time we get on a call, when I ask a question or somebody ask asks a question, you kind of like dumb it down into like the simplest form and it's like obviously it makes sense. So the game, when you're first starting out, literally just. And as one of my mentor like puts it just a ton of volume just to get clients. Even if it's not niche down.

Yes.

Like what are I. I know it's not a concrete question.

So.

So, so I'll put it to you like this. If it. It's. It's a super simple calculation.

Like it, it really just is.

It's if. If there is a market with a demand for something and you create an offer that solves that, that fulfills that demand or should they have a problem? Like there is a market that wants clients. You have offer that says this is a way to get clients, they buy it. If there, if there is a problem and market person with issue offer that solves issue, put them together. It works 100 of the time. It's.

It.

It's like physics. Like it can't not work. It 100% of the time works. It's if I'm hungry, I purchase food. Like you. You've really got to think of it like that. Like if, if it isn't. If, if no one is buying your. There is actually no other reason besides you're not hitting the correct person.

Or.

You'Re trying to solve a problem that.

Isn'T like, doesn't exist.

Like, and you're not like you're. It's. It's just like these little combinations of stuff where it's like, like you. It. It never doesn't work. So, like, I'll put it, like, if you were to just let me dumb it down even simpler. Like, I. Let's say I come across a theory. Like, hey, I think a good idea for list kit would be to make a cold email setup offer. I think we should do that. Okay, so, so, so how am I going to test this theory? I'm gonna. I'm gonna pick a page that says, do you. You want to get clients with a cold email system? We'll set it up for you. Throw some benefits in there.

Right?

And then I make ads to a market. Does the market book calls, yes or no? Like, if the answer is yes, then keep going. And if the answer is no, pick a different market. The answer is no different. Target it to someone else or like, or change the offer.

And you.

It's.

It's literally just those, those two variables. The market, the offer, and you just like, switch this one out, switch this one out, switch this one out, switch this one out, switch this one and see which one pairs up like a puzzle piece. It literally can't not work. It works 100% of the time if you get the combination correctly.

Do you have like, any. I don't know if I'm like, over analyzing this, but when you were starting out, did you like, have any, like, framework or like, you just be like, I'm just over complicating because we're lucky enough to have you as the coaches. Right.

But I've found myself.

Yeah, so, so, so this is how it elapsed for me. So it, it, it was, it was really simple. So I bought like a Ty Lopez course and I was, I. I sold a Facebook Legion things to a couple people, but it didn't really work well. It didn't really get results. So I can never. You can never like, establish some like, like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it just didn't really work well. And then. Yeah, and then I saw these one.

Dudes posting on Instagram like, Maseratis, whatever.

And it was, oh, we run an agency.

I'm like, well, what does that agency do? And the agency got people Instagram followers.

And then I just figured out how to.

I just looked up online how to get people Instagram followers. Like, here's all the methods.

I would literally how to get people to get followers on Instagram.

Watch every single video for like 10 hours.

Actually, this is what I do. Every single time I'm trying to learn.

Something, I just go on YouTube.

10 hours.

1.5X speeds everything.

So that's what I did. And then by the end of that one singular day, I knew everything, all of it. I, I knew every single method in.

Every single way to get people followers on Instagram.

So then I copied the. Because it was already working for them. I copied their niche, I copied their offer. It's two puzzle pieces that fit together. It has to by nature where it can't not work for me. There's no way there. It can't not be the case that these guys sell this offer and they're making this market and it makes money. There's no way it can't not work for me. It's physics. If I have a glass with water and I tip it over, it must fall out. It has to. That's what I did when that got destroyed by again. Now just go back to what we were talking about earlier, Corey. That business got destroyed by an Instagram algorithm update. Whole thing got fucked. Just, just one of those catastrophic things. It's like a asteroid coming to earth and killing dinosaurs.

Like, it just happens with businesses sometimes. Like there's sometimes an asteroid hits like, and you just die. And then. You see what I mean?

And then, and then I figured, well, I just got all these clients with cold email. I was literally just manually writing cold.

Emails to people from Instagram, clicking the email button.

So I was like, let me just go to other agencies who haven't been.

Destroyed by an Instagram algorithm update and.

Just send cold emails for them and just take a cut of whatever monetary.

Flow occurs between these two parts. I, I was charging retainers. I was able to pull it off because no one else sold this.

Then that happened. And then.

So that was working.

I was like, oh, well, this, this works. People probably buy a course on this. Then I make Holy Mastery. And then they were buying a bunch.

Of software that I, that I was buying. I said, let me just replicate the software.

So it was. I've never sold anything that did not already have an existing indication that it.

Was already working right.

Ever.

It's just, it's just, it's just dumb to do that.

So like you, with the AI stuff, like what's everyone doing to make money.

With AI right now?

It's, it's selling like either how to make an AI automation agency or just like courses in AI and like how to do copywriting with, with AI.

Like that, that's what they do.

Like if, if you're confused about what you should do with AI, the answer is to just go find the richest.

People making content right now about AI.

What is their offer?

Copy it. That's it. Like actually just fucking copy it.

Just find the two. Just find whatever puzzle pieces are, are, are mixing together right now and that's it.

Understood.

Yeah. It's so easy, dude. It's like when you, when you get it, you get it.

It's just like, oh, okay, great.

This is why, this is why sometimes.

People come up with something and it's.

Like, well, what if I did this and this and this and this? And I was like, I don't know, bro. Like it sounds like a good idea, but.

But you don't know.

I don't.

I don't see the puzzle piece. I don't see anyone else. See what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it also sounds simple when you're saying I'm also like, this is pretty simple. Right? So it just becomes execution then after that, right?

Yeah, it.

It so totally is. It's.

It.

It's difficult to describe how actually, like, it's so simple. It. It just is. Sometimes an asteroid hits you and you fucking die.

Yeah.

What separates the winners is the new twist of fate. Yep. This is all this also. It's also true.

All right, I gotta, I got.

I gotta move on, Camilla, because if.

You were getting any value from this.

Could you please do two things for me? Could you like the video? Share it, maybe subscribe. And if you yourself are an agency owner or B2B business and you're interested in being on these calls in a community and learning how to build your company up and actually build acquisition processes and systems and automations behind it, actually scale it. There's a link in the description. It's going to be the first one client, ascension.com. there's going to be a video there talking about our seven methods of client acquisition.

Watch that.

Maybe it'll interest you. Maybe you want to join Client Ascension. Either way, I hope you're enjoying the video. Subscribe.

I'll continue on now. Sir, how you doing?

Good. So I do paid ads as my done for you offer. And we have some big brands that we've gotten some good results. And I was talking to you about doing the. We place the UGC creator, we do the ad angles and stuff for the guys that want to do it in house. Now with my YouTube content, do I push the done for you first or do I push the done with you one?

No, you have both.

You just make both, like two links.

Yeah, yeah, I do that all the time.

Okay, so just have like YouTube.

I have like five different offers in the distance.

Yeah, that's fine.

Okay. I was thinking, I was thinking doing that, but I thought it might confuse people. But I think, I guess one would be if you want us to do your ad creatives, click here. If you want us to build an in house team, click there.

Yeah.

Yes.

Okay, cool.

That's it.

The way. You gotta imagine that that's like a self. That's like self sorting.

Everyone who wants you to build the.

Team is going to be larger. Anyone who wants it completely 100% hands off done for you is going to be smaller.

Yeah, I imagine so. Yeah. The guys that won the full. Because even in the sales schools, most people just go, yeah, I mean, yeah, that's cool, but can you just teach us how to do it in house? Yeah, four times. So I was like, okay, well, I might as well just make that an offer then.

Yep. Yeah, that's, that's actually as. As you sell to larger and larger businesses, the more they are inclined to.

Want things in house, like, that's, that's.

The same as me too.

I don't, I don't really like.

I don't, I don't like. I, I outsource editing.

That's what I do. Everything else is. I don't like it to be not in house.

Yeah. Some brands do both, though. So we work with Remington, the Shaver brand, and they have like three agencies I work with and then they have one in house team.

Yeah.

And they. The guy just says, yeah, the in house team does things really quick that you want to test. The agencies have the better talent.

Yeah.

All right, thank you.

Got you. Dave, what's up, brother?

What up? How you doing?

Good.

Sick rant. All right, two quick questions for you. Maybe not so quick, but one will be vague and one will be specific. So I'm curious, how do you think about building lead magnets and what is your thought process? You know, I hate to say the word framework, but like, when you're approaching, like, all right, I got a client or situation for list kit or one of these businesses. How are you thinking? Like, how do I build something that's free, high value, low cost to implement? I've read the book, you know, the Hermos book. But like, I'm just curious how you think about it because it sounds good on paper, but I still find it hard to figure out how to come up with something that's cool enough other than some like really 15 page informational document on, like, how to do something.

I like what I've Personally found. So I've made a lot of lead magnets. So like I've, I've, I've run cold.

Traffic ads to a lot of lead magnets. Right. So like max difficulty.

Yeah. So which ones have actually converted? And the only one that has ever.

Converted at all, ever was this one.

It was, it was 10,000 cold emails per day.

Case study.

It was a case study, but it was a personal case study. He's like, what happens when you send.

10,000 cold emails per day? Like how much business do you generate? Yeah.

So, but that was, that was an interesting one because it was, it booked a lot of calls.

It did.

But most of the people who, I don't, I don't know, I might, I.

Might actually be speculating this.

I had an option for someone to.

Buy a premium version of it.

They can get a paid version or.

A premium version for 28.

And I've gone back and there's some people who join client ascension who bought.

The premium version of that.

I don't know it, it. When I was running it though, I was running on YouTube ads. It did book a lot of calls. It did a lot. But the problem was they wanted a.

Done for you offer as opposed to a coaching.

Got it.

So, so that was just, so that.

Was just a case study lead magnet. Yeah, just too fancy.

That, that's, that's always what I've thought.

Makes a lot more sense too.

This is interesting. I feel like if you even listen to Hero.

I listened to it on a podcast.

A really long time ago and he talks about his specific lead magnet that he used. That like the one he used.

And it was, it was a case study. It was about how he filled his gym.

Right.

And then everything else was he's got like this. I seen they're doing one at gym watches.

Like the money model is one but.

And then the rest that seem to have performed are book funnels, paid book funnels.

And then I think they got like a, a free ebook one.

But the most reliable form of one.

Is always going to be a case study.

Yeah, it's just, just like 100 of the time.

It's going to be case study. Yeah.

Or like.

Okay, so let me put for a specific example, I got a client who is a chemical manufacturer and they make all sorts of random chemical products like def fluid, motor oil, windshield wiper oil fluid. They do it for like automotive industry, marine, some home care brands, stuff like that. But on, in short, they're a US based chemical manufacturer and I'm trying to think of like a good lead magnet to make for them. Anything that comes to mind. I mean, I, I could do the case study of, you know, how we shorten product lead time or increase, but I try to think of something more valuable.

I just don't think that's a lead magnet offer.

Okay, so like if, if you were to maybe it could be like, what type of chemicals should you use for this specific function?

You see what I mean? Like, maybe I just think that's a direct. Like, do you need this? Unless, Unless, unless they have something unique about their chemicals. You know what I mean? It is like a demand capture thing.

Yeah, yeah. They're the, the only thing that's really unique about them is they have like a really, really short time, they're very quick, and they have a really good fulfillment process. So their whole thing is they deliver on time and in full, which means that their customers don't get penalties from their customers for, you know, leaving the shelves empty and shit like that.

Have you tried just direct marketing with.

This as opposed to using lead magnet?

Yeah, we just been, so far we've just been pitching it straight, you know, like, and doing like some problem sniffing like, you know, hey, you know, we were scraping their websites, finding the products that they have. Like, hey, you know, I saw you have chemical product A, B and C. You know, do you ever have a problem like with your vendors not delivering on time and in full? You know, if that's ever an issue, like, please let us know, we'd love to chat.

Does it work?

Something really basic like that? It's doing okay, but it needs to be doing better.

Yeah, I, I mean you're the. So the thesis might be wrong then. Like, the thesis is that the people's.

Biggest issue is that they, they, they have the supply chain problem problem. You know what I mean?

Yeah, like that, that, that, that might.

Be like such a small niche problem.

Like I'll put it to you like this, this, this happened to me yet. And you got to catch yourself when you're doing this wrong. So I, we, we have sales type forms and we look at, we all the sales people submitted sales type from the other day.

They explain what happened with every call they had.

And then there's one person that came in, I was reading through it, it was like, they're a B2C offer. And I'm like, oh, I gotta go, like make some drastic change to make sure that like B2C offers do not get in here.

And I'm like, oh, wait, calm down.

So then I go And I look through all of them and just like it's, it's, it's not really a huge problem.

It's not a lot of B2C people coming through.

It was just like it happened to.

Get one ready hard. Dude, you like, so like what I'm.

Saying is that it's easy like for your client. They might have told you this, this, this is our unique thing why we're.

Better than everybody else.

But the, their unique thing is trying to resolve an issue that isn't even.

Much of an issue at all.

It's kind of like saying like, it's like.

I think I get what you mean though. It's like, yeah, they're saying that that's what people want. Yeah, they're saying that that's what people want. And I'm taking it as gospel. Like, oh, that's it. Said it right in the Bible, page three.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This just goes to the fact that like this client probably has no idea what the, they're talking about. Like the re. They might, they might have a bunch of clients for some completely other reason. You know what I mean? Like they might think that their product is better than everybody else's, but it isn't, it's just only because they, the only reason anybody uses them at all.

Was because they rank number one for this search term or some, you know what I mean?

Like that, that you see what I mean?

Yeah.

What they're saying is just wrong. So it's not, it's easy to say like, oh, I, I need to start.

Making a lead magnet instead.

But that's not actually correct. It's just you should continue with direct marketing.

But it should actually be for the real reason people use that company. It's almost to the point where it's like you just go email some of their clients or just like get like.

A feedback form, like hey, we'll give.

You a 50 gift card if you just like get on this 15 minute call.

Like why do you buy from this company? Like did you buy something else before and switch.

You see what I mean?

Like what is the actual reason? Because you bro. This happens all the time. You discover where it's like no one told me that.

You see what I mean?

Like I, I, I haven't done it.

For client ascension in a while because.

But I, I, I remember I, I, I was going through, I think it was, I think it was for client.

Ascension and one of the reasons was people had hired we gen agencies who didn't get results and that was why they wanted to themselves.

I was like, oh, that's interesting.

I would have been under the impression that a lot of these people didn't work with lead gen agencies before. That was like a very common. I was like, oh, that's. I didn't even know. You just find out that you. That you don't know.

And if you rely on a client.

They definitely didn't do it.

And that's actually if you read copywriting books, like all the best copywriters of all time, they say that, like, 80% of copywriting is literally just like, talking to the people. Like, so, like, if they. If they. If they spent a thousand hours on.

A client project, literally 800 of it was like, in, like, going to the homes of these people who are buying these mops and vacuums and shit. Like, actually.

Yeah. Actually understand what the customer wants.

Yeah.

Like physically walking into these people's homes and like, asking them questions.

Hmm.

Great insight. I'm gonna see if he'll let me roll that out.

Yeah, because.

Or at least speak to like, one.

Or two, you know?

Yeah. You'll know that shit works where it's like, oh, this is doing fucking way better. You see what I mean?

Like, that's.

Yeah.

Okay.

Sick. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.