The Secret To Getting Great Client Results & Building A Program That WORKS

What's going on, guys? Andre Hakel Jr. Here with Joey Johi from Default Kings. And this is episode three of a new series we've been working on called Integrator Secrets. So if you've watched previous episodes in the series, you'll know a little bit of background of myself, who is the integrator or like the COO operator role at a coaching program called Client Ascension. And Joey is that same same role at a coaching program called Default Kings. Joe, you want to give a quick intro for the, for the people watching?

Yeah, absolutely, man. So I am basically the integrator role inside of default kings.com and what we are is we're an online men's fitness coaching company. So since 2020, we've worked with over 350 guys, help them lose an average of 30.1 pounds. So that's where my experience is pulled from, is just inside of that coaching program that we're still currently running. Yeah, dude.

And you crush it. So basically the background is we've set up these bi weekly calls to just mastermind behind the scenes because we have very similar roles and very similar businesses. And it just got to the point where we're like, we're just spitting so much fire. Let's share it with the people. And so that's what we're doing. Like this is still the same weekly call or bi weekly call we have set up and we're just recording it. And so, and it's actually helped us to come to these conversations with a little bit more intention and notes and just, you know, it's more formalized. But anyways, the question that we're posing for today's conversation is how do you measure if your program is delivering enough value? And so if you're not familiar with coaching programs, essentially you have Legion, and this is with any business, but you have lead generation, you have sales, and then once you get a student in the door, you have to deliver value, which is like fulfillment. And so how do you measure if your program is delivering enough value? How do you measure if the fulfillment side of the business is where it needs to be? And so I wanted to open up the conversation with that question for Joey and just kind of see, like, how do you guys at Default Kings measure if your program is delivering enough value?

I think bare minimum for anybody. This is not just what we do, but bare minimum. You have to just make sure you're delivering on the promise. Right?

Like that's, that's.

And for us, the promise is lose 10% of your body weight. In 12 weeks. That's the promise. So we have to make sure and determine whether or not guys are losing 10% of their body weight in 12 weeks. And how we do it is we literally have KPIs set up that actually track the average rate of weight loss for guys. So I'll go in and now our client's team manager will do this for me. Goes in and looks at each individual client and checks how much of that weight of that 10% of their body weight are they within those 12 weeks. And so we're able to get averages and we're able to see even spread amongst which coach they have who's doing the best. And this is really an easy way for us to actually monitor coaches performance as well. So I think bare minimum deliver on your promise and then you actually have to track it and see if you're, you're doing it. And that's the only way. I don't think there's anything about it.

That's why I love these conversations with you bro, because I had like all these super technical answers in my head for this question. But like it really does go back to the core promise which so many people miss. And like so for you guys it's the body loss or the weight loss. And for us it's like booking a certain amount of calls or increasing the monthly revenue by a certain dollar amount. And so like that's an output goal, right? Same as your weight loss goal. It's an output goal which is controllable to some extent based on inputs that help you to get there. So I guess for you guys, how do you track or how do you determine what inputs are the most impactful to help someone reach that, that guarantee?

It's an offer specific thing, right? Like for us with fitness and weight loss there's going to be very specific things that guys have to do to lose weight, right? Like it's not, it's, it's not in the world of fitness, it's not rocket science. It genuinely does come back to moving more and eating less. So these guys have, you know, daily walk schedule, they have a protein goal, they have a calorie goal, right? They have workouts on their list and if they're not doing them they're obviously not going to get the result. Same thing being inside of your guys coaching program. It's like you have business health audits, right? It's how many emails did you send, how many DMS did you send, right? How much are you spending on ads? How many sales assets did you Post, there's very specific inputs that are going to actually make sure that that outcome is delivered. The outcome that you're promising is delivered. So you have to hold them accountable to doing the inputs. And what a lot of businesses do, and what we do to an extent is we actually put our contingencies of our guarantee in relation to those inputs. I know you guys do that as well. So that's a really good strategy for a business owner, is to be like, with your marketing and the guarantee that you have, make it contingent upon them completing the inputs that are actually going to get them the results.

Yeah, I mean, that's just the way it has to be. Like, you cannot achieve a result if you don't do the things that are going to get you that result. And that's why I'm such a fan of inputs over outputs is because you don't, you can't really control outputs as much as you want to increase revenue or as much as you want to lose weight. It's not like a knob you can turn or something you can go and check off the list. It's a result of doing certain actions that we've seen work time and time and time again.

Right. Completely. Completely and again. Like you guys have something similar as well. I don't want to spill all the client ascension beans here, bro. I know exactly, I know exactly what's going on from a student perspective too, being in your coaching program, right. Like, there's a very clear step by step roadmap of how are you going to do this? And you need to check those boxes, you need to do it. And we have the same exact thing. It's like, this is what you need to do today and, and this week for these next set amount of weeks. And if you do that, it's inevitable that you lose the weight. It's inevitable that you achieve your goal. Right. So you have to dumb it down, I think, and make it super easy for the, for the clientele to get that outcome by outlining what are the exact inputs they need to do.

Yes. Now, the toughest thing that I think we struggle with or our students struggle with is the patience aspect.

Right.

And so there was a great YouTube video I saw from Myron golden, who's in our space as well, and he was talking about how, like, he can tell you exactly what you need to do and he can guarantee that if you do those things you will get the result. The only thing is he cannot guarantee when that will happen for you. Like that's not controllable by him or the student or us or the market is really like, by God, is what he tied it back to, which I thought was so profound. And so that's what students, I feel like, really struggle with, is they're doing these actions for a certain amount of time and they're not seeing the results, and so they give up. And one really helpful thing for us has been, like, proof of, like, hey, like, I know it seems like this might not work or it's not working right now, but look at these 12 other students that felt the same exact way you're feeling now, but because they stuck with it, they're the face of the program. They got the results that they wanted and more. And so that's in the form of, like, case studies and kind of what I do or call them are student spotlight interviews. And so have you done something similar at Default Kings, where you've built so much proof that when students start to doubt the process, you can say, hey, look, like, I know what you're feeling. These other students know what you're feeling, but if you keep going, you're going to end up like these guys that are successful completely.

Completely. And I think when you have such an outlined, you know, definition of their roadmap, right, the inputs they need to do to get the outcomes, inevitably you're gonna have a shitload of people that get the outcomes. And then you take that and you can use it for your marketing, of course. Right. Or in content. But I think it's just as important to use it internally, too. So having a WINS channel or shouting out clients on coaching calls, literally putting that same proof that you're putting on your timeline or you're putting in your advertisements, you put it inside your community. So other clients see it, they're more bought in, they know it's possible. And naturally, whether they realize it or not, they're just going to adopt more ownership because they see other people achieving it and they're like, you know, if they're not losing weight, let's say the response is not going to be, well, you know, this Default Kings program, like, I'm not losing weight on it. It's going to be, well, there's hundreds of other guys here that are losing weight. There's something that I'm not doing or something that I'm not getting, and they're going to take ownership. So I think it's important to not only plaster it on your external marketing, but internally market the case studies to the guys you're working with right now because they'll do better work. They'll take more ownership, they'll take more responsibility of the circumstances versus pointing the finger at you.

Yep, absolutely. And it trickles down. Right. Like, I share those same case studies in learnings and, like, affirmations with our team members.

Yeah.

Because there are times in business especially, and in a fitness journey, like, these things take time. Right. Like, I can go to the gym, I could start a diet. And days in or weeks in, I might not see or be where I thought I would be. And that could be very, like, discouraging, demotivating. And that I see as like, the biggest threat to someone giving up and not seeing the results they came for. And so I just think it's so important to constantly remind these guys that if you just stay patient and continue to, you know, focus on the inputs, the outputs will be there. It's just a matter of time. It's not. It's not like if. It's just when, which I. I love that so much.

I think there's an element of it, too. And I know you get this through an onboarding process is setting the expectations properly. It's kind of sales and onboarding. Right. It's somewhere in the handoff, you have to actually set the proper expectations. And so one thing that we make sure we tell them is explicitly, this will not work unless you do. I can give you all these modules, I can make you a program, I can tell you what you're supposed to eat, but I can't actually go into your body and choose what you're putting in your mouth. Only you can actually take the advice. So, like, it's one of those things. I think I told you this on the Stick Talk podcast as well. You know, one of the analogies we use in our kickoff calls is this idea of, we'll load the basis for you, but at the end of the day, you're the one that hits the ball. And when you tell that to clientele, it really comes true. Right. They understand it, they get it, they conceptualize it, and they're like, yeah, he's right. Like, bases are loaded. I got everything I need. I just have to hit the ball. And so I think that's an important part of the process, too, is the onboarding and the expectation setting.

Yep. And one thing that you guys do a really good job with as well is you build the belief in themselves. Right. Because, yeah, we could show them all the proof that other people have done it, but a lot of times, at the core, there's a belief that for some reason, Something's wrong with them or for some reason they're not capable and maybe. So maybe talk about how like priming their mindset coming into the program is important as well.

I love that you brought up priming, bro. That's some, there's some, some Jordan Ross action. I've seen some of his content on priming and stuff, right?

Yeah.

And it's again, this is something that's on our kickoff call is this idea of. It's so subtle, right? Priming this idea, it's so subtle, but it's something along the lines of like, can't wait for you to lose this, whatever the goal is, right. Can't wait for you to make XYZ dollars. Right? Whatever your offer is, whatever the problem is that you're solving, when you start talking about that in the handoff and in the onboard, you're subconsciously programming them and priming them to go and get that result. And you're already building belief in them with that priming. And I think there's also a layer of it too. This might come back to your, your CSMs, but there's a layer of coaching where you have to be able to actually point out wins even if they're not big ones. You have to help them see all of the wins, even the little ones of just for us, a guy ate this high protein snack instead of this, you know, empty carbohydrate, low protein snack, right? Like that doesn't seem like a big win, but it's a win that if you point it out to a guy they will build belief in themselves.

Yeah dude, we actually did that in our wins channel. It's so funny, like I banned or blocked the word like small because a lot of guys would come into the winds channel, they'd see like maybe someone posted that they just signed like a five thousand dollar contract or they, they signed four clients this week or book ten calls and then they're about to post their win which is like I sent know a hundred emails or I got my first call book from cold email. And so just comparatively they're like, I have, I had a small win this week and I had to tell them like there's no such thing as a small win. Like your wins are your wins and comparatively they're going to seem small to someone that's 10 steps, 20 steps, 30 steps ahead of you. But that's not the point. Like a win is a win and if we celebrate every single win, that's what's going to stack those bigger wins over time. It's just really how it works.

Yeah, completely. I think. Well, they all matter, right? They all absolutely matter. And again, if you're selling a coaching offer or you're in some sort of coaching program, the people that are coming to you are coming to you because there's been a problem. Right. They're not in a good place. Like, generally speaking, they're not mentally doing well. Like, the belief in themselves is probably not built for our guys. If you're 50 plus pounds overweight, like, you probably don't feel very good about yourself and don't have much confidence. And those small wins, quote, unquote small, if you point them out, that's just going to help them out. It's only going to get them to a better headspace. So. Yeah, man. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's massive. And I think it's one of the biggest things that you can do. One of the most important things you can do is literally have a WINS channel and make sure other clients are seeing other clients win and share that amongst each other.

Absolutely. One thing I want to kind of pivot to here is, okay, we could sit here all day and talk about how good our programs are, but there's like a reality check too, is like, we could sit here and talk about it, but what are our students saying? And there was this great podcast, I think it was Andy for Sellers podcast, and he had Hormozy on there. And Hormozi was basically saying, like, your shit, like, your product is not as good as you think it is. Like, I guarantee you it's not. No matter how good you think it is, it can be better. And basically he was just saying, like, what do your customers say about your product without you influencing that? Right. And so for me, like, one thing I always like to do is I search on Twitter for client ascension and I just see, like, people in the program mentioning or talking about client ascension in different conversations. Like, how is that happening organically without our input? And for client ascension actually happens quite a bit. So maybe Twitter is not your platform, maybe Facebook groups or TikTok or Instagram. But, like, see what people are saying about you behind closed doors or in conversations where you're not like, blatantly a part of or tagged in, because that's a great measure. I also think, how are people showing up in your community? I know both Joey and I have hired like absolute A plus plus players directly from our communities, which is a great measure of how your program is. Like, if someone is willing to work for you and go, go all in to help your program grow and spread more. It's usually a good sign about, like, the program being, you know, good. And then referrals as well as, like, how often are other students going out to their friends and peers in the industry and saying, hey, you need this? Like, come join us. And so how do you look at that, Joey? Like, how do you measure if your program is actually successful outside of what you think alone?

I think the biggest thing is referrals, man. It has to be, right? Like, it absolutely has to be at the end of the day, and there's always going to be room for product improvement. But the metric I kind of use is the Hormozi metric of, like, if you don't have a large bulk of your business coming from referrals, like, you've got work to do. And even when you get to that point, there's still gonna be work to do. And it takes time, right? It takes a lot, a lot of time. And there's a lot of people that. And you see this all the time, bro. I know you do, especially with what you coach, right? You see this all the time. People that'll start one thing, and then a few months will go by, maybe a year will go by, and they have to start a whole new thing. And a lot of times the reason that happens is because they just never took enough time to actually build a good product. They marketed the hell out of something, pumped it, and then once everything slipped through the cracks, they had to go build a whole new thing. Because the product is the sticky point, right? The product is the thing that's gonna keep all those people, keep them coming back, keep their friends coming back. Right? So what you're better off doing is just taking multiple years to just build something that's amazing. And you should aim to get to the point where the big bulk of your business is coming from referrals. I think that's literally the answer. It's just referrals.

Yeah. Yeah. It is, like, the most, like, detached ego answer you can give. Because people can talk about your program, you could get them on case studies, but if they're not so invested and so, like, convicted in what you're doing that they're going out and telling their friends that they should also spend their money to be a part of it, then that is definitely an area to look at, right?

Completely. And again, there's always room to improve. Right. And I think one thing as well on the referral side that. That we realized is, like, you do have to actually set up A system that allows them.

I was just gonna say that, bro. You actually have to ask sometimes to. You have to ask.

It's sales at the end of the day, like you have to ask. You do. Right. And there's something that we're working on right now. I know I sent you a little loom. I don't know if you want to get into it a bit, but there's ways that you can. There's ways that you can systematize it and there's things that you have to set up to actually make there be an ease of entry as well. Right. So it's like any kind of sales process. Like you have to ask and you have to make it easy to buy. You have to.

You do, absolutely. So I guess that's a great question for you to prop you up. I know you have a system that you're testing now and you don't have to go into full detail, but like, what are some ways that you can generate more referrals knowing that your product is good and it's getting students, you know, life changing results.

So this is just a theory. This is ultimately theory, like the video I sent you. It's still ultimately theory. It's testing. But where my mind goes is just like any sort of acquisition process. I feel like you have to give on the front end. Right? You do. And I feel like with referrals it's the same thing. And if you think about it conceptually, logically, this makes sense. It's like, well, what can you give your clients more of that's going to potentially encourage referrals? And it's like, well, what if they could invite a friend to some feature of your program for free? Right. I'm testing it logically. It makes a ton of sense. It's like, well, if they can go out and show their friends a free piece of this and something in here that might be valuable to them, that would probably encourage a lot more referrals and open the door for you a ton on the back end to just have that referral opportunity. So that's where my test is stemming from, is just that logical sequence of events.

Yeah, I think that's super interesting. In one of these upcoming sessions, we'll come back to this and talk about what the results look like and what changes you made to it, if any. So definitely stay tuned. Hit the subscribe button because it will be coming to this channel in a couple of weeks, I'm sure. But yeah, I think with referrals like you said you have, there has to be some like form of reward. And like the way we justify is like if you're getting someone from referral, you're not paying to acquire that lead, right? You already paid to acquire the person that is now referring you this lead for free. And so you can dedicate the same budget, maybe you dedicate to a setter or to your sales team in general, to the person that's referring you this business. And one thing I learned from Cole Gordon, what he does really well is he makes it like a competition. I think in business and fitness, like these are very competitive spaces where it's mostly consisting of like men that have big egos. And so anytime you can gamify it or incentivize competition, you're gonna get better results. And so as soon as for us, like we implemented a referral competition in leaderboard for like who has the most referrals or who's giving the most referrals. Not only are they getting compensated the most, but they're being recognized the most by other people in the community, which I just think is so genius.

Yeah, well, there's, there's status in the community as well. And this is an idea we've talked about too, because the community, if you think about it, humans are generally speaking status driven individuals. And there's going to be that inside of a community. Like there's a hierarchical. How do you say that? Hierarchical maybe. Right? Complexity, totally. And like you're talking about like you have client ascension poster boys. Like we have default pings poster boys. Like we absolutely do. Those are the guys that in the community, other members look at and they're like, damn, that guy's pretty cool. Right? It's just a natural psychological effect. So if you can create that hierarchy with a referral competition, it would probably be killer. I've never tried that, but that would be freaking awesome.

Yeah, referral competition. But I think what's so important here to go back to what Joey said in the very, very beginning, which is you have. None of this is even worth listening to if you're not delivering on the core promise and if you're listening to like the referral competition, but you're not delivering on the core promise, like create a competition around the core promise. Right. These same strategies apply at all different aspects of the business, which I think is cool as well, because it's not just, oh, you can only have a competition for referrals. You could have it for inputs of or leading to the core promise, you.

Know, and dude, like numbers wise as well, because I Know a lot of people, especially like if you're an integrator type and you're listening to this probably like the numbers and the data and we talked about that input sheet. Right. Like the things that they should do that allow them to hit the guarantee. And for us, we actually ran it on what the success rate is. Meaning, like, did they, did we deliver on the promise? If they did it, all their inputs, it was 98%.

That's why.

So if they just do their thing, there's a 98% chance that you hit the guarantee. And to even go further along in terms of just product and client relationships, the that 2%, none of them asked for a refund. Right. Because you serve them well and you have a good relationship with them. Like, chances are people aren't even going to ask for that. Even if they miss what you guarantee, as long as you did good work and they feel like you didn't totally bone them, they're not going to ask for that, that refund most of the time.

Yeah.

Even if you offer it, they might even tell you to keep it.

Yeah, right.

So that's, that's another, that's another thing as well.

You know what's interesting, Joey? Like, that 98% is super impressive. What I think would be even more impressive is how do you get 98% of your students to hit all the stipulations, 100%.

And that's the, that's the hardest part, right? That's the hardest part. It's like, how do you get humans to do things like that, right? It's like, damn, only if only 98% of them would do all the stuff, right? And that's where the, the complex comes in. I think we talked on, I think this might have been the first episode we did is like, how do you make a product better? And one of the things that we look at is simpler. And I think an easy way to make a product simpler is like, how do you reduce the inputs they have to do while also not eliminating the inputs that are going to get them the results. And I think, I think I was hearing you on your stick talk. I think you were talking to Brian Moncada and he was saying with the product is like, you need to have the bare minimum amount of things that allow them to get the results. That's that idea of simpler. Like make it simpler. So that's a whole nother. That's a whole nother conversation that can spark from this is like, how do you have the minimum inputs required required to get them that result because now you have a better product and more people are going to be able to get into that percentage of people that did all the shit.

Yep, exactly. And that's kind of the journey we took with client ascension is it started as a 12 month program and then we cut it down to six months and then now we're at four months. And every time we've made the cut in terms of like time, we've also cut out things that just were not serving students during like the time period or just where they're at in the business. And the results skyrocketed and a third of the time in the program people are getting more results, more impact, which is just like a limiting belief I had is like, oh, if they're in the program for 12 months, they're going to get way more value, way more results than if they're only in here for four months. And it's just not, it's just not the case.

Yeah, man. And I think as well, when you think about cutting out things that are in your product, you don't necessarily have to cut it out completely. It's like you could just take that stuff that you eliminated you and maybe you put it in the back end offer, maybe it's just too much on the front end, but on the back end they want that stuff. Like so for us we used to have a lot of in the weeds fitness stuff, like super in depth, like pulling up charts, all kinds of stuff. But the majority of our guys that are coming in are super green to fitness and health. Like they've only been training for maybe a year, maybe three at the high end. Right. They're super green that in the weed stuff. One, they didn't need it. Two, it was confusing. So we were like, well, we'll just keep this for a back end offer. And if you want to continue, chances are you have more work to do and maybe you're just genuinely curious about what's next and how to go to the highest level possible. Here's the information that's really in the weeds and would confuse a beginner. So that's the other thing you can do with that stuff is the stuff you eliminate. You can just put it into a separate offer.

Yeah, that's literally what we did. We just put it into our back end because the students are not ready for that information yet.

There you go. That's funny. You put it on your back. Yeah, that's literally what we did. We're like, ah, this is probably a little confusing for some guys. And nobody's watching it. Nobody's doing their homework on it. And I was like, well, it's probably because it's literally just too much. And we just put it in the back end offer.

Yep, that's it. That's it. It's so funny, bro. And the way we got there, too, which is. This is the coolest thing. This is like a huge gold nugget. And I don't know if you guys do this at Default Kings, but, like, if you're listening, this completely gave me clarity on what students are really getting value from in our program. So I do those student spotlight interviews, like I told you about, and the best question I've ever come up with is, I get to the point later in the conversation where they're telling me about all their success and this, this, and that, and I'll ask them, okay, you've obviously had more success than most students in our program. If you're speaking to students that feel like they're not getting the full value or they're just not getting the results that they wanted in the beginning when they joined, what would you tell that person to do based on what you did that got you the results you.

Just told me about?

And they'll tell me, like, the simplest things. Like, they'll be like, I attended all the coaching calls, or I found an accountability partner. And we meet every week and we just make sure that we're staying on each other's, you know, business, which is actually what inspired the idea for the student success coach, basically to be their accountability partner, because we didn't have that before. And so we're getting all these great ideas from the student directly telling us what actually moved the needle for their business. And I just think that's the coolest thing.

Do that. And I think this is something that I started to catch on to with you as well, because the Kajabi resource, right, like, you're able to see, you know, what modules are guys watching, how long do they watch it, where do they get bored? Where do they click off, right? And it kind of spawned this idea on me that at the end of the day, the back end data is just as important as the front end. And as we, me and Gabe and kind of mark on this marketing journey for ourselves, one of the big things we're learning is, like, you have to track everything, like, every possible channel of acquisition. You need to know the data, the conversions, and figure out what's working and do more of what's working. Same thing on the back end, right? Same Exact thing. So, like, we track call attendance. We track which guys have gone to which calls and how many calls have they been to total. Yeah, we track, like, what guys have done their homework assignments and what guys have tracked their stuff. Like, we know the numbers on the back end too. And so it's really easy for us to plot on a chart of data. This guy lost this much weight. Here's the data. He went to this many calls. He did this much homework.

He did this.

Well, of course he lost that much weight. He did all the stuff. He did way more than the guy that didn't lose much weight. So the data everywhere is important in every part of the business. The data is absolutely massive because it gives you clarity.

It informs every decision. I love that you said that. I literally just wrote it down on my notepad here. Which is why I love doing these calls with you, bro. But, like, the tracking of the backend data of like, the student activity, right, because you'll have guys like, we'll do a business health audit call, and it's very obvious, like, this person is not doing well with sales. And so we'll maybe start to question, like, hey, like, how can we help this person to do better at sales? And. And then when we go and do an audit, they haven't been to any of the sales coaching calls. They haven't gone through any of the sales content in Kajabi. They haven't sent a message or write a message in the sales specific Slack channel. Well, of course. Right? And yeah, like, in the moment, that sucks. It's obvious. But now we have a solution that we know will work, right? It's so obvious. It's not a guessing game anymore. It's all data driven.

It's super clear, Right. It's super cool. It's one of the best things we did and like, one of the biggest things that we leverage with our community managers, like getting that data of like, who's here, who's there, who's watching what, who's doing what? Because if there's ever any questions about results, that's exactly what you do. Exactly what you're saying. You just point to the data. It's like, oh, really, Guy? Well, that's. That's weird. I mean, I'm not necessarily surprised because you haven't done this, this, and this, Right? Oh, got it. And then they go and do it and they get results.

Yeah. Because it gets me. So, like, I always love doing that when the student complains. And then I'm all nervous at first. I'm like, oh God, I suck. What's wrong with me? Why am I not getting them results? And then I see that they actually just didn't do anything. I'm like, ah, okay, bro. But I like, that's out of love. Like, that's a place of like a hard posture that is loving of like, dude, like, look, I got you.

Yeah, there's no such thing as an execution coach, right? Like, there's nobody that you can hire especially for what we do. I mean, obviously you have done for you offers, of course, but like with what we do, there's nobody that you can hire in the world that's going to work out for you or for you. Like, it's not, there's no done for you fitness. It's not real. It doesn't exist. So like with our niche specifically, it's always gonna come back to them doing the work. Now obviously you as a business owner, like, we're talking about the product earlier, like, make it simpler, make it easier for them to do the stuff. Right? That is your responsibility. So I don't want to, I don't want to leave the taste in the mouth of this call to be like, these fucking clients, we got to make sure they do. Like, it's on you to make sure that it's easy enough to do. So like, if you have clients that aren't doing this stuff, you then have to self reflect and be like, well, why aren't they doing it?

Exactly.

See if there's anything that you can do to make it easier. So I want to make sure that's the proper, the proper bow tie we put on it, not just us.

It's a great point, bro, because you could look at it and if. So here's the distinction, right? If I'm getting on a call with 10 students and every single student is struggling with the same thing, that's not, that's not the student's fault. It's my fault.

It has to be.

But if I get on a call with 10 students, nine of them are hitting it out of the park, but one student is struggling with the same thing that nine guys are crushing it at. It's probably more on their side, right? And it's not to cast blame on whose fault it is. It's just like looking at the data and making decisions on what needs to happen to get us the result. Because that's all we're focused on. That's what we're being paid to help these people do.

Completely. Completely.

This was dope, bro. This always the conversation like goes so much further than I had planned or imagined. And so I appreciate you bringing your stories and experience and knowledge for the audience. And we'll just keep these going. And if you guys are listening, thanks so much. We appreciate it. Any feedback is appreciated on videos like this. Any thoughts, comments, questions, just drop them in the comment section below and check out some of the other ones. I think this is, yeah, Episode three. So if you haven't seen the first two episodes of the series, they're just as good as this one was and they're just going to continue to keep getting better. So appreciate you guys for hanging with us and we'll catch you on the next one.

See you guys.