Beneath The Surface Podcast — Ep. 3 - Unmasked: Creating from the Core

Hello, hello, hello! Welcome back to another segment of Beneath the Surface, where we honor the messy, magical process of healing and creating. I'm your host, Kenny Francois, and today we're talking about something close to my heart— what it means to be your authentic self and what it means to bring your authentic self into creative work every single day. Not just the curated self, not the brand safe version, but the full unfiltered one. The one that holds grief and joy in the same breath. The one that creates from lived experience, not just aesthetics. And I couldn't think of a better person to explore this with than my cousin, my brother, Taj Francois, filmmaker and creative multi-hyphenate, where his work is raw, resonant, and unapologetically real. They just don't make art, they make space. They make mirrors, they make medicine. Most importantly, they make their work speak well past words. Thanks for joining, Taj.

Thank you, thank you, cuz. I appreciate that very sweet opening. I appreciate it, I appreciate it.

So before we dive in, Taj, do you want to just talk about kind of your background, um, talk about more about what you do? To the guests, to people that are listening, watching, tuning in, just a little bit about yourself.

Yeah, for sure. Um, let's see, I am first generation Haitian American, parents straight from Haiti, as is similar for Danny, as we're cousins if you didn't get that part. Um, but I got into this whole field and this craft and everything in high school. I originally went to be a doctor Didn't really feel right as I got older. And then I luckily took a TV production class freshman year of high school, met a teacher, Mrs. A, who led me to falling in love with this medium. It was the first time I ran into an adult who felt like they were passionate about what they were doing for their career choice. Otherwise, I'd seen them just kind of look like they're pushing through and not quite present. And that didn't look like a life I wanted to live. So kudos to Mrs. A for that. And I've been in New York now for 12 years following those dreams and those passions. I've worked on a couple notable projects, scaling from Frank Ocean's Endless visual album to taking photos of Miguel, the singer, to helping Beyoncé with her Sir Davis campaign, some Bose ads, Beats by Dre, a couple of different ad works in that nature. My most proud of works are short films that I've made, either directed by me or edited by me or creative produced. One dear to my heart is called The Ocean Is Closing Mondays. You can watch that on Nowness, and I have some more coming. But that's me in a nutshell.

That's awesome, man. That's awesome. I'm really like— your work speaks volumes, and I can't hype you enough in this podcast because it's like Everything you make is like a breath of fresh air. It's like, ah, I get to see another Taj François original. So it's great. It's amazing.

Thank you. I'm fortunate that I can continue to be a breath of fresh air. I'm going to try to keep up that same.

There you go. There you go. That's awesome. So I guess while we dive in, um, let's talk about the myth of the mask, right? So we all wear masks. Some are more see-through, some are transparent, some are harder to chip through away at. So I guess I want to know, uh, what's a mask that you used to wear at work? Like, is there a mask that you had to wear at work, or was it like you're just showing your true self 100% every single day, um, day in and day out?

Yes, a great question. Um, I think Based on the state of the world and then us also just being Black men existing in the world, we have kind of mandatory masks that we need to put on in certain environments and workspaces just because a natural way, whether that be through Ebonics or whatever type of way we're communicating, can just sometimes be easily misperceived, right? If you're not, you know, from a background where you had that culture around you growing up and you understand it. So I think for work purposes, I'm usually trying to, depending on the environment, I think now, fortunately, I've hit a space where I can show up as my authentic self and it'd be received well. I think as I was first coming up and growing and getting accustomed to New York and these work environments, I definitely kind of calmed down the creative burst, if I will say. I feel like I came into it very like ready to throw paint at the wall. And there's a lot of it that's like, hey, it's nice, but what if we like dip a brush and slow it down a little bit and then like take our time with it? So I think in that regard, there's been some masking. Okay, this space or environment is not quite used to me yet, so let me ease them into it.

I definitely resonate with that because it's like when I, for my job, right? It's, I have to present two different sides of myself because I'm still trying to figure out like who I vibe with, who I check with, because it's like I have my work self, Daniel, where like his face is like professional business maker. Like I'm like, I'm trying to entrepreneur this, that, and the other. But then there's my authentic self where I could just lay back, be myself. I don't have to worry about anything. People know me as Danny. Or DJ, and I'm just like vibe with everybody. But it's just hard to— at first it was hard for me to differentiate between the two because like sometimes I would get lost in myself. But then as years go on of me starting to work where I'm at, it's like, like you, I'm able to show up as my authentic self and I'm there able to be like, I can mesh both of them side by side and and I won't have any repercussions or I won't have any like guilt of being who I am. So I think that's, I think that also dabbles in what, what you were talking about, like test the paintbrushes a little bit to see how everything goes and then go from there.

Yeah, I agree. I think too, even in the way, you know, that you showcase your hair, you know, I think that's what natural styles for our culture and you know, people like that across, you know, Caribbean to Africa to everywhere. And there's a lot of workplaces that are kind of anti that hairstyle. Yeah. So one, just being brave enough to do it, and you did it for your own enjoyment and you wanted to, you know, just have a new aesthetic about yourself. And the workplace has accepted that. You've been promoted, you know, there's been no issue regardless of what style of hair, just because of how you are in the world.

It's especially tough too, because now if you look at like the generations between before the workspace now, like where it is now, it's like we couldn't have tattoos, we couldn't have our hair a certain way, we always had to have it clean-shaven, this, that, and the other, because that's just the way we grew up, where like you have to be a certain mold, certain model citizen, so to speak, um, of how to present yourself. And then it later shifted where like Now, like, if you have tattoos and if you don't get a job because of a tattoo, that's considered a hate crime, which I didn't know about. I had to do research on that, and that was, that was crazy to find out because it was just like, really, hate crime over tattoos? But then when you— the more you think about it, it's like, yeah, that kind of makes sense because they— people think that people with tattoos are all thugs and all hoodlums, and they, they can't hold down an education or or let alone a job, and they're just the stereotypical, like, well, this is going to be like a juicer that came out of prison that's trying to get his life together. And it's, it's crazy how we go from that to like, oh, he actually is very like all-rounded. He's very personal and he's very creative, and he showcases what he loves in like art form.

Yeah, absolutely. I think, uh, to tattoos started to get realized as forms of self-expression more than all these other types of things. And, you know, I think it's, you know, only certain parts of America, like we're kind of in like larger cities and the type of coast that we're on, the East Coast, is more amenable to all those type of things. There are definitely still places where it's just like, oh no, you can't come here because of this, or you'll just get judged. And that's again their worldview and what they know. And the misinformation they always receive. But yeah, it has been a big shift and it's— I'm grateful for it. I'm grateful to be in a city that accepts it and happy to live as authentically as I can.

So that with that, I know that sometimes not only probably in your workspace, but in my workspace as well, there's the risk of being real, right? Being authentic isn't just poetic, it's vulnerable. And when you create from your core, I see in your work and in works that I follow aside from you. It's like you're putting your truth on display and you're showing the world that this is your truth. It's not always clean, it's messy. It could be political, it could be personal, it could be religious, it could be whatever take you're on, but it's up to interpretation. And I think that like if you have that foundation of like there are no wrong answers, so to speak, in like what you want to display, then it makes sense to display it and to showcase it to the world regardless of like the positive or negative feedback that you get. So I guess, I guess I want to know your take on that and like the risk of being real versus kind of like showing one-sided of of your work?

Yeah, I hear you. Great question. I think that, uh, I think it's a real, a real, um, dilemma of the times. But there's a quote, and I'm going to misquote it, so I won't, um, but it's basically saying that it's the artist's job to reflect the times. That's kind of, you know, um, a part of the, the deal. It's you're here, you're expressing yourself, and you can only express yourself in your present and what you've been through. And that's kind of where most artists, I think, pull from to try to get their stories out. And it feels more tangible than sometimes just saying it out loud. Sometimes it's not enough to just speak it to a person. Sometimes it's like, I have to show you. Like, I was like, no matter how I say it, it might not ever resonate. So now I have to create something that shows it to you. So then you can, you can kind of come to that conclusion on your own, but you can also be like, oh, that's what you were getting at the whole time. And then it lasts much deeper and longer. And I think that's like a human experience that we both have, right? With whatever type of content, media, film, comic that you've read or seen, that you've seen something and you're like, oh yeah, I feel that. I feel that way. That's how I feel, you know? And it's a beautiful moment to be seen. And something else that you're, you know, viewing, you know, and to make others feel seen is a privilege.

So out of all the work, this is a separate tangent, but it still pertains to what we're talking about, right? So I want to, I want to ask you, out of all the works that you've done, whether it's through a company or independent or even for yourself, right? Was there any art that you've displayed that shows like the deeper— like you were displaying, like you were explaining, um, a deeper message? Is there one that stands out to you that like resonates or hits home for you, that hits like— that checks all the boxes of like it's authentic, it's raw, it's real, it resonates? It may not be— it's, it's personal, it's not, it's not political, so to speak, but it's more personal and more relevant to what you stand for. Is there work that, like, you want to talk about, like, that displays that for you? Because I'm honestly curious because, like, I know that you've done X amount of stuff, but I just want to know if something that's standing out to you recently.

Yeah.

As you were going through your work.

I appreciate that. Thank you. I think two pieces come to mind that aren't, like, super recent, but close enough within the last couple of years. The two things that stick out to me, the most recent one would be the short film, The Ocean Is Closed on Mondays. And that was me coming on as an editor. That is my friend Laura. She directed that. She wrote it with the poet who you hear speak on it. But my job coming in to, you know, put together this amazing story of assimilation and what it feels like to not belong somewhere. Even though this is the place you're supposed to live and exist in and how to put that together in a way that can resonate with people. And fortunately it did. And we feel very grateful for that because we just put our heart into that. And then on the perspective of me as a director, I would have to say this music video I directed for this Philadelphia artist, South Jersey, my bad, South Jersey artist Frankie Hill. I directed a music video called "Hi." for him, uh, and I had heard that song while I was in the pandemic, and I was already going through my own personal kind of reflections and transformations during that time. And the words of that song really spoke directly to my soul. Like, it was quite honestly, I heard it and I was like, I felt myself reflected. I felt like I could see Frankie very intensely and all the things that he's going through, as musicians have that unique ability to do in such a short amount of time. And as soon as I heard that song, I hit him up. I was like, because we'd worked on a previous music video together, and I was like, I need to make the video for this. I was like, there's no other— like, I don't have this power, but you're not allowed to pick nobody else. Like, yeah, your song is your choice, but like, I need to be the one because I feel it so intensely, so deeply. And for me to be able to help put visual to your words, would be an honor, one, and then just like a beautiful cathartic release even for me, just because of, yeah, how potent it was, right?

I mean, because like, it's like in that moment you're listening to the song and you're like, I have an idea, I don't know what, how, or when, but we're gonna make it. It's gonna be beautiful, it's gonna be raw, it's gonna resonate, and it's gonna like blow up like in the best way possible. And I love that, I love that for you. That's awesome, that's, that's really awesome.

Thank you. Thank you. It was a fun time. I really appreciated it.

But I guess we saw, we looked at the good, right? But then with every good, unfortunately there's, there's bad and we can't, we can't fight it because there's, with exception, there's always rejection, right? There with appraisal, there's always like haters in our, in our DMs basically like, oh, well you could have done this better or you could have done that, da da da da da da. And people always have their two cents, right? So I guess. Have you ever felt some sort of like rejection or critique that just like was just fear in disguise? Like, have you ever like felt any backlash like over some stuff that you've done or anything growing up? Like when you were— when you made that decision from like doctor to filmmaker, like to where you're like pastage to futuretage, like was there any like backlash or rejection that you Like you had it in your life that like, kind of like showcase, like, I'm not, I'm not taking the critique, I'm taking the critiques, but I'm taking them very minimum. And I'm going to use that to push myself forward, to keep going, to keep proving to them that like, I made the right choice. Even if you don't need to prove to yourself, but prove to the others, like subconsciously.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, I think, you know, you know, and most people who have parents of color, Caribbean or immigrant especially, you know, you come with the idea of being a creative and it's like, that wasn't on the list of 3 options that I really have for you under doctor, lawyer, and another doctor, you know. So I think that fortunately, my mother didn't have much resistance to that. I think because she'd seen me throughout all of high school actively doing this, she knew I was like, this is the most committed thing he's ever had that I've ever seen him in, you know, with me doing that for 4 years straight. And I would go on weekends and everything just to work on it. So when I told her I wanted to do that for my career, she was quiet. Okay. I'm like, I see that you're hungry for it, so go for it. Um, I did have an instance. I think the two that come top of mind for me is One, my father, he had a moment. My uncle, he had a moment where he expressed to me that he thought that it was a very terrible decision and that I wouldn't do well or succeed at all in it. In 5 minutes, he was able to get that all across to me. I was 17 at the time and I heard him, but I didn't hear him, you know, like The words came to me and I understood who it was coming from and what it meant, but I also had so much, um, belief in myself and just the belief in the teachings that I was handed down from my teacher, Mrs. A, uh, and just the love of my family and the support system that we have that it really was like, okay, like I'm not going to make it a big deal, but subconsciously I'm like, I am going to do everything that I already said I was going to do., but it's just now going to be at a level where I'm also going to add, I told you so at the end of it, you know. And I think that is another battery that a lot of us wear with these chips on our shoulders as we grow and get and become who we're meant to become. Um, and then of course moving throughout, you know, moving to New York or, um, now I'm in a big city, right, where now I'm coming in from small town and I'm interacting with, you know, some people in my class who are at the same level as me, but then also just high-level professionals all around you who know so much more than you do. And I think that is your kind of, um, biggest moment to decide, are you going to be humble about it or not? Because you are trying to grow, you are trying to learn. Are you going to be egotistic and like arrogant while you're trying to learn something? Like, I don't think that has ever worked much for most people. So once you come into that contention of these people who are much better than you, all they're going to do is critique you. But the then you have proof of their work and it's like, well, yeah, you're better than me. So what am I going to say? You know, like you can quite literally watch it and be like, I can't do that yet. So to take the critique, you know, it's kind of like, all right, what things do I need to work on to be who I'm trying to be? And not every critique is a good critique. You know, I think we're very good at having a moment where you hear something and be like, mm, that didn't really make sense. That felt like you were saying it just to say it. And for that reason, that's going in the trash. But if I'm hearing something authentic, uh, and like, fortunately, some workspaces I've been in, I've had the confidence to ask, where am I lacking? What do I need to work on? I don't get this. Can you help me? And the people who have shown up for me in those instances have always done, have gone above and beyond to try to help me and help me understand something because they see that my, what my character is. You know, they're like, your character is so much more important than your skill set. So we'll help you get your skill set up.

That, that's beautifully said because it's like, cause when you're talking, when you were talking about first, when you were trying to tell your parents about this is the career path that you wanted, it's like, it's like you, like with the good, with the bad, right? So like your mom, super supportive. Um, and she was just like, okay, if you're passionate about it, go for it. Your dad, it's kind of like you, like when you said that you heard him., but you weren't really like, but you were like taken back a little bit, but it was just like you had that tunnel vision where it's just like, all right, well, even if you said no, don't do this, I'm gonna prove you wrong kind of thing. So it's just like you're still in that momentum. You're still on that track. Like I'm still gonna, like, it may be a little bit while for me to pass you, but I'm still gonna race and I'm still gonna go through that marathon. Like, so I, I get it. I get it. 'Cause same track, right? End of high school. Yeah. I wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to be a PA because all of our family are doctors. All of our family members are doctors. So I'm just like, let me attack this head on instead of like, 'cause I've heard stories, like I've been around the bend. I've heard stories where people are like, well, I didn't know if I wanted to be a doctor and then I eventually became a doctor and now I'm super successful.. And then I'm just sitting here, I'm just like, damn, maybe like if I attack this head on, I won't have this issue. But when I got to college, it was like the labs were fine, the classes weren't adding up.

Mm.

So it was kind of that disconnect. And I tried, I could be honest, I tried biology about 3 times, like fall, spring, fall semester. And I'm just sitting here, I'm just like, damn, I, nothing is sticking. Nothing is like, I like hands. Yeah, exactly. I like hands-on stuff, but the lecture and stuff goes in one ear, out the other. And I'm just sitting here, I'm just like, what am I gonna do? So then, but then I had that uncomfortable conversation with my parents because I'm just sitting here, I'm just like, how, how am I gonna tell them that I'm not gonna be a doctor? How am I gonna tell them that like I'm not gonna live up to the standards that they want? But luckily my household and how I was raised and how I grew up and that relationship that I had with my family was just like, they just kind of like what your mom did. She was like, okay, let's take it back. What are you passionate about? I'm like, well, I'm kind of, I'm passionate about computers. Like I do really well on computers. Like I like coding. I like the, like seeing how things break and then you could put them back together kind of thing. She's like, run with that. Do it. My dad was just like, yeah, man. I mean, if you want to do it, do it. Like, whatever makes you happy. Typical dad answer, by the way.

But he was like, dad answer. I love it.

But he was just like, whatever makes you happy, man. Like, if you want to do it, do it. So I'm like, all right. So I'm like, I talked to my advisor. I'm like, I'm like, I want to change my major from biology to computer science. And she's like, okay, good luck. Let's see where this leads. And here I am all those years later working at TD Bank coding and everything. And it's like, it's crazy because it's just like, I would worry so much about how I would compare to other people because I was the— I'm the youngest person on my team, or one of the youngest people on my teams, excuse me, because there's another person that's around my age, but I'm one of the youngest people on my team. But it's just like but I've seen people who are older than me that are starting out their career in that job, in that space, and they don't know anything either. And it's like we're on an even playing field, right? But, but we learn from each other. So like, if he knows something that I don't know, he teaches me, or vice versa. If I know something that they don't know, I teach them. And it's kind of— it's beautiful because it's like it's not so much a competition as it's a collaboration. Yeah, which is, which is amazing to—

beautiful—

to, to figure that out, especially at a young age, because it's just like you're sitting here, you're like, oh man, it's a dog-eat-dog world. Like, I gotta one-up this person and this person one-up me, and they keep going like Jenga. But it's like, no, we're all on the same playing field. Like, it doesn't matter where you start or how you came into this, it's about like how you get there and how you Proceed to the next step. So I think, so I think that's, that's something that resonates with me even to this day. Cause it's just like, there are times where like I sit there and I scratch my head and I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. And like you, I ask for help and luckily I, like you, I have people in the field that, who know a little bit more than I do. They teach me and I chalk it in, I put it into my notes and then basically if the next person that doesn't know, I I share that wisdom and I share that knowledge.

Yeah, that's the mandatory part too. I love everything you said and that part is the mandatory. You can't receive, um, goodwill and not pay it forward.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Because when you create from truth, you don't just make art, whether it's like you said, film, photography, media, computers, like coding, whatever, you make space for others to be real. So it's, it's amazing.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that.

So moving to the next segment, um, of like the cost and the reward, right? Have you ever lost something, uh, whether it be followers, gigs— I mean, if you want to talk personal about relationships, whatever— like because of your authenticity? Like, like something that like where your authenticity was too much for them to handle and, or like you couldn't present yourself to, to like a project and they wanted to go a different direction? Like, have you ever felt that way?

Yeah. Yeah. I think the most recent one work-wise, I think how my authenticity has evolved is I'm a very honest person. And it depends on, of course, how close we are, how honest I feel like I can be, right? Of course, my closest friends, you can just shoot and they understand that your intention. That's not going to go that way with work when you first meet people. That's not going to go that way with anyone who's newer to who you are as a person. They might just take it as offensive and keep it pushing. I had a work instance. I was in a contract with this, smaller company, and they're a Black-owned company, and they're, you know, they're doing their thing, and they're, um, doing everything they can to grow, uh, and I'm talking to them. I got introduced to them by Mitchell, and they wanted me a part of the team to help put some visuals together, kind of be like cinematographer lead, all these things of that nature. And there was also a clause in there for products that I bring in, I get a percentage of based on referral as well as booking me as someone to work. Now, I think because of how much experience I've had within ad spaces, like I was senior editor for The Beast by Dre for like 2 years. Again, I've worked on the stuff I've said I've worked on already. And as I got into their ecosystem, I started to see like a lot of ways that we could just make things better and more cohesive in ways that it would just make more sense to operate creatively. It felt like to me, kind of when I hopped into it, it felt like a little bit too free-for-all, you know? And I was like, ah, there's not like structure. Uh, and I would pose those questions. I'd be like, why don't we have this? Why do we speak in this format? Is there another way that we can communicate with each other? That's not kind of in this like kind of group chat situation. All these things that just, I know would kind of mitigate the mess and the noise and allow us to have dedicated spaces to push forward the art and the craft and everything of that nature. And it just wasn't received well, you know. I think what it felt like to them was me trying to change how they've always done things. And I think probably, yeah, that is kind of exactly what I was doing, but it was toward their goal the way that I was trying to change it. I was trying to make it more systemic in a way that would allow the goal that they're looking and reaching for it to be more tangible and allow us to just make better steps. It still has to take many steps to get there, but better steps for it to come to fruition. And it wasn't received well. They wanted to end the contract and that's fine. I accepted that and I understand that. I'm like, no one is everyone's cup of tea, you know? And it's kind of like those moments that have happened throughout work where it's like, okay, we just don't align because I think within any work environment, Sometimes you meet somebody that you're just like, how did you— how did you get here? How did you get here? Kind of like, huh, okay, I didn't think you would pick this job and be this person, you know?

Right.

Yeah. And that happens to every single one of us. I think it's a human condition and it's how do you work around it and manage that energy as well as still trying to show up as yourself and in which way you know best and then finding your community. Like, there's no bigger gratitude I have than in finding my creative community, who also double as kind of like a family away from my main family. You know, they take care of me. They show up for me when I ask. I show up for them. It's all vice versa. But the way that they've also been able to put creative things in my hands, because they know that's also what fuels me and feeds me, it's been nothing short of immense gratitude.

So in a sense, you lost the gig because they felt like you were kind of taking over in a sense, but you gain the perspective of like being more authentic and showing up for the people that show up for you in a sense, right?

Yeah, that's a good way to put it. And I think that I learned more acutely in which environments or spaces are not for me., kind of like trying to fit, you know, a square peg into a round hole. Yeah. Like understanding, I'm like, okay, at the start, as I started to communicate with them and I saw their work, I already intuitively was like, oh, this is, this is very different from what I'm doing, but maybe there's something here that I can make happen or try to, you know, be a change for them. Uh, and then throughout time, that intuition just proved right. It was like, no, you, you just weren't a creative match at the start.

Right. That makes sense. I mean, cuz it's like instead of having too many chefs in the kitchen, it's better to have a little bit more organization so that everything could flow as fluid and as, and as, um, consistent as possible. And I think that's very important whether whenever it comes to like wherever it comes to where you work, because it's like even if there's no structure, at least have that open communication and open mindset where like you're willing to change to make something beautiful. Because it's like we're all coming from different backgrounds, so it's like it doesn't matter if this person— like, like I said before, this person has this experience, this person has that experience, this person has that experience. But if you're coming together to basically put a puzzle piece together, then you can make something beautiful out of it regardless of the backgrounds, of the experiences, of of like who's like in charge because you guys are all one team.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think good leaders have very diverse, you know, teams, you know, because they, they want multiple perspectives. They want people who are different from them because it challenges them and challenge can be looked at as threatening. And then the, but in a creative field and set in most, you know, work environments where there's that communication is centered around growth of something that challenges just and asks to do better. Okay.

Okay, let's, let's name it in mental— let's name it Mental Health Impacts Creativity. Point blank, simple. Some days the ideas flows, some days it's just a fog or brain freeze or brain fart or even just like a creative, like mental, mental block, right? Have you ever had those moments where you've had those brain fogs and you had to step away to come back to?

Yeah, 100%. 100%. Um, I think, you know, a lot of big misconceptions around creative people is that they're just creative all the time. And I think that comes from the fact because there's, you know, most of the times they interact with you or you interact with them, there is some type of idea or something that hasn't, you know, maybe been a part of your normal community that gets brought up and mentioned and you're like, okay, there's a creative again. And that's, you know, them practicing. Because I think there are so many ways that being a creative, especially being a business, the business part takes away from the creativity at all, right? Like, I think there are amazing people who are able to be creative in business, and that's a skill set that I admire. But I think for most people who are coming into the medium to to do visuals or create arts or things of that nature, being like, okay, now you gotta chat it up with your accountant. Where's your tax guy? You got your bookkeeper? Like, all these parts of it are mandatory because of the environment and country we're in, but that part's not fun, right? So you're just kind of like, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. But then outside of the, the business stuff too, then there's just life stuff. Right? Like each of us just, we go through things, you know, like we lost our grandmother, you know, like that moment and then being like, okay, now go create something the next week. You're like, I'm in mourning. I'm like, I can't, like, I can write regarding her. I can be creative regarding her, be in her memory and honor and homage. But if you're now asking me to work on this headphone, I don't give a fuck about this headphone right now.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's the last thing I give a fuck about. And you, you do have to, as a creative professional, um, be able to compartmentalize a little bit, which is, you know, unfortunate for life purposes and things of that nature. But I think like for me, the things that I tend to do when I'm overwhelmed by whatever life is tossing at me at that time is, you know, trying to ground in any way possible. And sometimes it's quite literally physically like I will roll out the yoga mat and I will lay on the floor and now, and now I have my headphones and I would just like playing music with no lyrics because I don't need any other thoughts. Sometimes, sometimes you're like, I need a hype-up track and I'll get back to it. We're good to go. But most times for me, it's like, okay, what I'm playing, uh, Glass Houses by Maribu State. It's mainly my track that I'm tapping into. I'm laying down on the floor. Anywhere, and I'm like taking a moment and I'm just focusing on my breath. I'm like counting as I breathe in and I count as I breathe out, and I'm trying to regulate myself that way to be like, okay, all the things that matter that are bothering you still matter, and it's okay, but you don't have to think about it right now. I'm like, you can get back to that thought, you can get back to that thing that you're working through, you can bring that to the therapist, whatever the case may be, right now might not be the best time for you to prioritize these feelings and emotions just based on business deliverables, people you got to talk to, things that need to happen. Everyone's life, you know, is always moving. The world is always moving regardless of whatever your personal experiences. That's what I mean to say. It's, it's constantly— someone is always going through something and the rest of the world has to be like, okay, well, You got that thing due at 2 o'clock, so what are you going to do? You know? So I think those are big things. And the reading. I read a lot. I've always been a big reader since a kid. And there's this book by Quincy Jones called 12 Notes on Life and Creativity. I believe it's in that order. And he just, one, he named the book because of his music teacher. She told him there's 12 notes. And until God makes the 13th note, you should know everything that has been made and created with these 12 notes. And he took that as a principle for his life. So he has these 12 things and pillars of his life that he's like, these are the constant things that are important. And even if you get away from it sometimes on the path, you have that North Star to come back to. So that's a book I come back to often, just on his life experiences that you know, really put in perspective in a way as a young man of color coming up to being as great as he has— rest in peace— um, that, that POV just does a lot to one, remind me that we're all human and we're all doing the best we can, uh, and also that humanness won't prevent you from your greatness.

So with when you're saying compartmentalize, right, what's the difference between that versus like, or if there is a moment, I wanna, let me, let me backtrack a little bit. Was there a, was there a moment where like you had to do that versus like bottling stuff down, like where like the stress was getting too much and you had to basically just kind of push stuff down to like try to get through day by day? Like, cause I wanna know like if there's like a creative difference for you in that sense, like between the two. Yeah, or if like if you favor one versus the other, or if it's a case-by-case situation. So I kind of want to know like your perspective on that.

Yeah, I hear you. Okay, I might have misanswered the previous question.

No, no, you answered it fine. I was just, just chalking in notes of what you were talking about and trying to figure out like, okay, so what does he feel about this versus this kind of thing?

Yeah, I get you. I think that the issue for me is the creative space is supposed to be like a playground for your thoughts, right? And you're kind of bouncing these different ideas and you're like, oh, what about this? Ooh, what about this? Ooh. But when you are plagued by whatever life situation and the things that you're kind of, that are weighing on you or the things that are emotionally on your heart, those thoughts that bounce, it'll go from, oh, what about this? Ooh, ooh. Sad thought. Okay, back to work thing. Okay, what if I do this? Bounce again. Ooh, sad thought. And then now you're not able to get in a rhythm and momentum with it because you're now juggling this part of you that's trying to create something new versus the part of you that's trying to digest and feel and understand all the things that you've gone through as a person. So now it's like, okay, you're mourning your grandmother and you're also trying to make this thing. Those thoughts are always in competition with each other. But how do I still make something, you know, concrete? Uh, and, and the best creatives and artists and individuals in general, um, just rely on discipline, right? Because discipline is kind of the one thing that's consistent amongst all the other things. If you have a disciplined routine, you can follow that routine, and your brain will most likely find the synapses necessary for you to get your idea thought out.

That, that makes sense. Okay. Cool. Appreciate you, uh, talking more about that because that— because I always wanted to know, like, if there was a difference, if you favor one versus the other. But like, okay. And going back to— and going back to what you were saying, like, where you stay grounded and you just prioritize yourself, because at the end of the day, like you said, the world keeps moving and it's not going to stop for us. So we got to just keep on trying to figure out how to bounce back in a sense.

Yeah, yeah, man. It's it, you know it, I know it. It's very much just like sometimes you're like, can I get a break today? And the day will answer back, no.

Yeah, yeah. And then sometimes they answer yes, and it's just like, oh, word. Because there, there actually was a moment where Um, when Skinny Grandma passed, like, I was emotionally distraught, but I was trying to get back into the swing of things with work. Um, I think this is before my job, um, at least told me about bereavement, like taking that time, whatever. So I came back like that, I want to say 2 weeks after, and I'm just sitting here trying to do my job and And I'm still thinking about Grandma and it's hard and I'm just like, well, I'm trying to do like you. It's just like, do something. Ooh, wave of emotion. Trying to come back to it type of way. Ooh, another wave of emotion. And then I took a step away and I'm sitting here, I'm just like, what's the end goal? Like, what's the end game here? Like, what am I supposed to be doing next? Because I need to worry about finding my next full, my my permanent full-time gig. I need to, I need to grieve. I need to focus on myself. I need to do X, Y, and Z. And I didn't know what to do. And I just basically stood up, took a step away, breathe, walked around a little bit. And then I got a message from my— and then basically my boss messaged me. He's like, hey, can we talk? I'm like, oh God, this is not good. This is not good. So I'm like, okay. I'm like, yeah, I'm in the lobby, we could talk. And then he's like, first off, I want to say my condolences. I'm like, I appreciate that, thank you. And he's like, what's going on? And I'm like, what's going on? And he's like, I just want to say you've been doing a really great job for these past 6 months. Um, after— I want to say after 2 months, um, I'm gonna put up a position and I think you'll be perfect for it. I want you to be part of our team permanently. So I'm like, wow. So I'm just like, so when, so when the life hits you, knocks on your door, like, then you like, yes. Like, absolutely. And then I, I, I had to go outside after that and I looked up to the clouds. I'm like, Grandma, you're doing it. You're looking out for me.

Yeah.

So I'm just like, I'm like, yeah, that's great. I'm like, wow. Like I'm getting emotional talking about it, but I'm like, damn, like Of course, I feel you. Because at the end of the day, because I was just like, my work's been very sloppy for these past 2 weeks, but it's because I've been grieving this, that, and the other. And then the rabbit trail goes, and then all of a sudden I'm just like, I stopped, I paused, and I'm like, it's okay because other people see that I'm doing a really good job of work. Take the next step, breathe, you got this. And it was just like, it was the most beautiful feeling in the world. And I'm just like Oh my God, that's perfect.

That is perfect.

I told everybody, I told all my family, I'm like, listen, I got the full-time job position. Like, I got it offered to me. He's like, you just need— he's like, you just need to sign up for it. It's a formality, but you got the job. I'm like, all right, beautiful. I'm like, yo, this is great.

That is, man. That's like, oh, as you said, the yes that comes in when the universe also has this moment where it sees that you've been going through it for a bit, but you've been persisting. And it's like, okay, here you go, man. You pushed through. That's all I needed from you was to push through.

You got through that huddle. That's all you needed. You just got through that huddle. That's it.

Oh, that's amazing. I love that.

But yeah, so that's where the real art lives, right? And you can't read that. You can't post about it. Can't make up movies about it. It's just, it's in the now. Like, it's in the now.

And, uh, yeah, there's something—

oh, go, go. No, no, I was just gonna say it's just something in that moment that's just like things just start clicking and everything works out the way you want it to. And it's just, you don't have to worry about connecting the dots because the dots will connect themselves for you eventually.

Yeah, that's it. And if the flow state And there's, it's the, you know, the divine intervention is the, it's the, the moments where while you're not looking and while you're focusing on something else, the good is happening. You're, you're prioritizing, but the good has not stopped moving because it's such a force that you've set into motion, that generations before you have set into motion. And, and that wave of wellness won't be stopped by the bad that comes its way.

So on that note, on, on that note, I have one last question for you. I've asked you a lot of questions tonight. I know, I know, but I have one, but I have one, but I have one question, one last question for you. So those that are tuning in now and listening to your journey, our journey, our individual like paths, structure, upbringing, backgrounds and everything, right? Um, if someone's listening right now scared to show up fully like to themselves because they're scared to take that next step or they're scared of like the denial or the mistreatment or anything negative really. Like, what would you say to them? Like either to them or what would you say to your past self about where you are now to help like realign your path?

Yeah, I would say people aren't thinking about you as much as you think they are. I think there's a large part of that fear and that resistance and that, like, hesitation that comes from, how am I going to be perceived if I do this thing? And people aren't thinking about you as much as they— as you think they are. There's, there's always some type of negative something. That's the world. But do you want to get to the end of your life and then regret not doing that thing? Or do you want to get to the end of your life and you're like, man, I'm so happy I did that. You know, like, those two energies are so starkly different. Everyone knows that feeling of regret when something has happened and it just eats at you inside. It will be so much bigger and worse for something that you feel so deeply is important to you, something you're so deeply passionate about, and you decide to not do it based on people you don't even know. You don't even know those people. Who are they? Like, that's— and if you do know those people, get you some new friends. That's it. It's so much more important for you on this time on Earth to push forward the perspective that you feel is important to you, because otherwise you're robbing yourself of one of the main gifts that you've been given on the world, which is your perspective. Like, no one, literally no one else in the world sees the world the same way that you do, and it could be a beautiful gift if you want to share it with us.

Yeah, no, that That makes sense. I echo, I echo with what you're saying, man. Like, I didn't mean to cut you off, but like, I echo you completely. Like, it's stop worrying about the outside noise and focus on the only noise that matters, and that's you.

Yeah, yeah, it's you with this body. You better love yourself. You're the only one in there. You better love yourself.

Come on, man, preach!

Now wake up and look at yourself in the mirror every day and be like, I don't like that person. Work to do better.

Yeah, because mental health, especially self mental health, is important. Yeah, because, because if you don't love yourself, then you can't show that love towards other people.

Yeah.

And it's important because— and it brings me back to the purpose of my podcast, of why, why I have these guest stars and why we have these conversations, these important conversations. It's because I want people to show case themselves as authentically as themselves, but also to showcase that, like, you may be going through hell right now, but there's always a light at the end of the tunnel that you just have to crawl to walk to run to chase after. Because I know that they can do it. But you have to believe in yourself that you can do it. Because I could only— I could only provide an outlet over here for people to listen, to talk to, to even join in the conversation. But I could only do so much. But yeah, but it's important for the viewers, the listeners, the whoever, however you're listening to this right now, it's important to know that it's never too late to get on that journey to self-preservation and to self-resilience, to, to get to the end goal or to the, to where you want to be. And I think it's very important to understand that because you don't have to start at step A or even before A. You could step on C, D, or even H for all I care. Yeah. But as long as you keep going down that path, as long as it's the path that you want to be on, that's all that matters. Because at the end of the day, like you said, you have to look at yourself in the mirror every single day. So I think it's important for people to realize that. This is your life. This is how you want to live it. And I'm hoping that even if you're listening to this being your first episode or the third episode or the fourth, what have you, it doesn't really matter. As long as you're here and you're getting something out of it, that's all that matters. I'm not trying to make a profit. I'm not a doctor. I say this all the time on every single one of my episodes. I am not a trained professional in this field. I'm just a real person talking about real things. That matter to me and hopefully matter to yourself. And that's all that— and that's all that I try to give, right?

Let's go. You said it best. That's it.

But I do want to say thank you, Taj, for joining us today. I appreciate it.

Of course. Thank you for having me on this podcast. The message, everything that you're trying to speak in and share with the world is beautiful. So thank you for having me on.

Um, and to the listeners, to the viewers, thank you for joining us on another episode of Beneath the Surface. If this conversation stirred something in you, please share it. Share it with your friends, your loved ones, family, doesn't matter.

Share it with someone.

Tag a friend, or better yet, create something and tag yourself. You know, it doesn't really matter. But until next time, stay bold, stay messy, stay true.