The Man Behind the Scrubs | ER Nurse Justin Page

Yo, welcome back to another exciting episode of Beneath the Surface Podcast. I'm here with the man, the myth, the legend, Justin Page. So Justin, there's always been something I found kind of interesting, right? It's like about people who work in healthcare and, and everything. When does the stress and all the problem seeking of like what's wrong with the patient And people focus on what's wrong with you. Because I know that you're an ER nurse, you're a husband, an entrepreneur, you're a mentor, you're someone that talks about growth a lot in your social media platforms and everything. But I just want to know who you are beneath all of that layers, right? So let's get into it. Let's talk about it. And I just want to know more about you, man. So tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, your upbringing, and Kind of what led you to the man you are today?

Yeah, I mean, that's a loaded question to jump off the rip with. Entrepreneurship in healthcare. Let's just— let's make this digestible.

Okay.

So being in healthcare itself, let's start with that first and foremost. I like serving people. Serving people is one of my principles when it comes to who I am as a person. Upbringing, Being an only child, my parents served me being an investment that they put all their eggs in this little old basket. And watching them sacrifice the things that they've sacrificed for their only child, I felt that, you know, I had to— it was my responsibility to show up and honor what they've done and the sacrifices they've made for hopes of saying, man, we hope we did right with our child. How does someone do that? Well, by serving other people? How do I help uplift other people in a way that is bringing them more value to not only themselves, but their own surroundings themselves? My whole mission has always been to aspire to inspire. And I fell in love with the ideal of just serving people. That ended up landing me in healthcare. And that's a weird thing to say. But when I left to go to college, when I tried to figure out what do I want to do with this degree? What do I want to pursue? I didn't know what I wanted to go to college for originally. Actually, I lied. I wanted to go to college to go to culinary art school, which is super random. But leaving high school, I wanted to go and be a chef. I thought, you know, Iron Chef was the thing back in the day. Morimoto and all those people.

Right.

It's before my time, before a lot of people's time. They don't know about that anymore. But I like cooking. And my buddy who went to— got accepted to a university, he said, hey, Justin, I got accepted. You should come with me. So I said, all right, let's— Let's do this. They didn't have culinary arts when I got there. I'm sitting in this orientation class and people are— you have to check off what major you're declaring in our orientation group. And there was business, there was math, there was biology, there was communications, there was computer science. And what was the other one? Theology. I didn't care for any of that stuff. But I'm hearing the murmurs in the background and, oh, biology. Well, We live in Florida, it's a retirement state. Maybe, maybe there's jobs there for, you know, retirement and healthcare. And I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, that makes sense. I'm hearing stuff right there. My gears are turning. So I said, all right, biology, check. So let's run, let's run with biology. And fast forward after people dropped out of school because biology was kind of hard. And, you know, what do you do with a biology degree? You have to go back to school and you have to get a master's. You have to start niching down and what you want to do and pre-med this and medical school that. It was just, it's overwhelming. But throughout that journey of college and what my calling was for is again, serving. I just generally loved that. And that led me into becoming a paramedic. That led me becoming a nurse. That led me into working to help save lives. You know, we're talking about serving. I'm serving, saving lives, which is a lot different than, well, you go, I was gonna compare that to going to church, but when you're going to church, you're saving lives too in a religious way of, you know, giving lives value and giving to Jesus Christ or whomever you are a believer to, but serving to save lives physically by fighting the Grim Reaper. But I felt very unfulfilled with what I was doing because my service was tied to a business who reaped the benefit of what I was doing. And it's not that I wanted to be recommended or accommodated or for them to honor me in a way that I felt like it was a selfish desire that I helped somebody to help me. That wasn't it. It was the recognition that the hospital was receiving, but they didn't recognize me as the person that was helping them look better. That kind of sat with me a while and just watching a lot of these corporate companies not take care of their own. And that just reinvigorated the entrepreneurship spirit I had in me that, you know, I want to build something for myself. I see a problem and I see people that You know, they don't have their self-recognition. They feel like they're left out with who they are. They devalue themselves. They don't even know their own value, and they don't know how to be compensated for something like that. So I try to bridge the gap between, you know, who you are as a person serving yourself to help serve other people. And that led me into building your brand and building who you are as a person, because people along their life journey, they forget or they don't even know who they really are. So that's kind of got me to where I am today as a very— try to short-winded story.

No, it's really good. And it's very interesting. Interesting. But like going back and you're saying that like you just clicked the checkbox, just said, okay, biology makes sense to you. Did you growing up and basically becoming the person that you are today, like, did you ever feel like you had to be a certain version of yourself, of that Justin, like bio ER nurse, like to be accepted, to be successful or respected at all?

Like, I'd say growing up, I had a difficulty with bullying. There was a part of that where if you weren't considered one of the kids that were doing what everyone else was doing, then you were the outlier. So then you're somebody that looks at, you know, they look at you like, you weirdo, you creep, you're not cool, whatever. And I'm not gonna lie, I've always been a kind of cool kid. But there's a lot of things that I didn't agree with, even as a young age. I just didn't look at it and saw value in it. Which is interesting to think of it now as an adult. But because of that, it pushed me to try to do what other people didn't want to do, go against the grain. So for example, I'm in high school, I'm not in sports. Everybody's all the jocks, the football players. I'm in band. So they're like, right now I'm like the weird kid. And I mean, I mean, cool band kids you think of, you don't think of anybody really unless you're Nick Cannon.

I'm just about to say that.

That's all I can think of. That's it. That's it. Which I did do drumline, so I guess I was considered cool. But I didn't do sports because one, I had allergies, so I couldn't survive enough in the grass and all that. Two, I didn't really care for sports in that way. Like I was ever a sports-driven guy. I am competitive, but I didn't have the passion for sports. And I also didn't grow up in a household of sports. So that probably could be a reason why as well too. Music was there. So I guess that could have led to the music. But Being in band, but also being friends with all the band kids and also being friends with all the football guys and all the soccer guys. And I was very flexible with my dynamic and who I was around. So I will say that I had my own lane I liked to walk and I was open-minded and I didn't really live in ignorance to just shut one side off. But I would always kind of get ideals from this side, ideals from that side, see what I didn't like. Oh, all the football players are sleeping with all the girls. Well, okay. Well, I don't wanna sleep with all the girls because, you know, I would rather have girls chase me than me chase them. So I'm going to work at it differently. So I always approach things in a very methodical position, but also one that I try to keep close to me instead of following the fold.

Okay, well, that— I respect that. And like you, like, there was bullying a lot in my life too. So it was just like trying to fit in, trying to fit in with the popular kids, try to do what they were doing. But then also at the same time, losing my identity, losing that, that portion of myself where it was, where it was hard. Because it's just like, well, if I'm gonna be a people pleaser and I'm gonna get lost in, in behind the mask, and I can't really own up to like certain things that I like because it seems like everything that I do would be to copy them, so what's real, what's not kind of thing. So it's, it's hard, but I appreciate you telling me a little bit about your, about your background. That's, that's very interesting. That's very not what I would expect, you know. And it's, and I guess it's one of those things, that's why the title of the podcast is Going Beneath the Surface, right? Because you can't judge a book by its cover and you're always like trying to figure out, well, maybe if I peel this layer, I'll learn more about the person that I'm interviewing or the person that I'm becoming or the person that you want to strive to be. So it's, it's definitely A unique take on it. But, um, as you were going through the pre-med route in college and everything, was there ever a point either during college or after college where you're like, this was completely not what I expected and this is real now? Like, I need to buck up and kind of like figure out what I need to do and kind of like, this is not like just clicking a checkbox. This is like the real deal.

Yeah. Going through the program or going through like the school itself?

Going through the school and just going through like the challenges of like the courses and, and then eventually leading up to you becoming the full-time ER, or at the time the full-time ER nurse that you were.

Yeah, no, that's a good question. Going through the courses again, a lot of, like I said, a lot of my friends failed or they just left school or they dropped out because One, the teachers at our school were very— I don't know how to say this. They were very protected and it was kind of them, like you're in their domain. So if they don't like you, they have the option to make life a lot harder.

Wow.

And they did. I'll be honest, I can say that. But going through the classes itself, I had to like what I was learning and I did not like any of it at all. I honestly just didn't care. I didn't care about cell biology. I didn't care about mycology. I did, I did like biochemistry, weird enough, and that's one of the harder courses, but I didn't care about any of the other stuff. But the teachers were so passionate, and if you didn't fall in line with their passion, it reflected on your grade. Now, the guys who did great, they were also in the chemistry clubs, they were in the biology clubs, they were doing all the skills, the fairs and everything there. And it's just, it wasn't me. I was trying to figure out where my lane was with biology, and I failed classes multiple times. I I sure did. I got Fs in a lot of these classes, zoology, which is one of the easiest classes, but I didn't care. And I'm like, I got to keep retaking these classes because I got to finish this class to get to the next class. And, you know, throughout the journey of it, it was kind of questioning, well, what the hell am I even doing this for? And again, as I did finish the degree, the next step was, well, what do I do with the degree? I mean, who does what with a biology degree? You know, there's— People teach, people go and count squirrels, people go and test water.

Yeah.

And I'm not doing any of that stuff, like with a biology degree. So it's like that, it's now I have to figure out, okay, what's the next step after this? And I have to figure this out before I graduate because the people who were graduating, they were going back home to their parents because they didn't have a job. They didn't know what to do. And in my eyes, I felt like if I went back to my parents' house after college, I have failed them as Their child. I have failed in my own eyes because I'm going back, and some people would argue that and say, "Well, go back, get you get some foundation, get your ground, you know, find the job, save the money." Yeah, cool. But as a person who's like just driven in that sense, like I feel like I don't I don't that's not me. That's I'm not trying to find the crutch. I'm not trying to go back and live in my parents' house until you know years to come. So I had to make it work. So what did I do? I doled and rolled in. Became an EMT. And I went to a whole different school while I was at university and got a separate degree for emergency medicine as an EMT to be on the ambulance, to get experience of medical field. At this time, I'm starting to declare, okay, I want to become a physician assistant. I don't want to become a doctor because I don't want to go to school for X amount of years.

Right.

All the debt. PA was— had more autonomy and they also had more easiness to change between specialties. It made sense. It's a 2-year program. It's medical school condensed. I can do something like that. Now, as I was able to make that plan happen, I became the EMT, became a paramedic. I realized I didn't want to do PA because it just required more schooling that I didn't care for, that care to do. And I'm watching people who became PAs try to find a job, or if they did find a job, they're unhappy. And it's like, what, where am I really going? Because all roads seem to lead to unhappiness with any of this stuff. But I was already putting my foot forward and I realized the ball was rolling and I like to finish what I started. So, I said, all right, well, let's just work as a paramedic and we'll see where things go. Ultimately, it led me as a critical care emergency room nurse, registered nurse. And that ultimately then led me to saying, I want to leave healthcare and start my own businesses. So, how did I get through all of that? I just kept pushing through and realized that I didn't want to fail and failure wasn't an option for me.

So was there ever— so I bet there was plenty of times where you felt like you couldn't handle it, or just you, or you just weren't finding the fulfillment that you wanted to find.

It was both. It was hand in hand. I— there's some things I just didn't get, and there was things that I just didn't care to get. And I think that that was the issue I was having. You know, we take these classes that are forced on us to take, And you just have to make it through it. And I'm just like everybody else, you know, when you start asking the questions on why do I need to take this class?

Right.

And it's like, I just got to get through it so I can get to the next step. In my mind, I don't find value. And if I don't find value in something, then I can't put my heart into something. And the whole retain and dump and just study and forget, like, that's what you had to do. And at that point, it's like, well, what am I doing? Did I just waste an entire semester of my life? to learn something I didn't really care about. And that was hard. It was hard for me to fathom that. But it's because I was in it. I just had to push through. There was no like, just leave school, drop out of college. I didn't think about that. And it was like, well, I'm already in a lot of student loan debt. I gotta do this.

Because you got to try to chip away at it somehow. So you might as well. Yeah. So regarding like the mental, the mental health side of it, right, of being an ER nurse and just seeing all these patients, does it ever weigh on your spirit that much? Like, what has it ever, like, I guess, reflect into the person that you are? Like, do you ever take that baggage home with you? Or is it just— or you're able to make that split? Like, I clock— I walk through that door, I'm just in ER, but then when I clock out, I'm back to my normal self. Like, or has it been— or has there been moments where, like, it kind of, like, hard to differentiate between the two?

Today's a perfect example. So I'm still working as a nurse. I'm working weekends and Literally, I had the worst 2 nights at that place because of the patient load, the process or lack thereof process that we have there in the department. And it's very frustrating. And I always have the issue of turning off the frustration because I shouldn't care. Now I care about my patients. I care about who I am as a person. I care about saving the lives and showing up for my— for me and showing up for those people I Mm-hmm. But when it comes to the actual hospital itself and their policies and all that, I can care less. But it affects me because it affects my work and it affects me as a person. And I do realize that I'm very passionate about that stuff. And I have the frustration with turning it off because I'm not in management, I'm not in leadership. And I choose not to be because I realize that when you go into leadership, you don't change anything. You've become changed. You are changed. You have to conform to what they say. or they'll just replace you. And the people who do move up, they move up for either a status change or they want more money. And what's the sacrifice with more money when it comes to that stuff? That's something I'm not really willing to want to do. It costs more than to make more. Right. And there's principle in that. And I'd rather not have to deal with that. So last night, I mean, it was a terrible night. I got off late. I was very unhappy. I got in the car. My wife picked me up because I just didn't want to drive. And, you know, I— she asked me how work was, and I just told her it was just— I hated it. Like, I really just want to hand my badge in and just say I'm done with this crap. And I really thought about it, and I said, you know, I'm having a third-person point of view of this. You know, hon, old me would sit there and complain, be frustrated, maybe take it out on you, be snippy with you about things. And I can understand why people go down such dark rabbit holes when they take work home. Because when I'm at work, all I hear is, oh man, I got the beer waiting for me when I get home. It's just calling my name. Like, that is the reward. The reward from a hard day's work is to go home and go drink and to say, I feel fulfillment now because I made it. And I'm like, that is just disgusting. And I can understand why people feel that way. And not to knock on people who like the drinking for their hard work. Cool. But it's like, why am I going to go damage my body now? from already damaging my body and mind, my mindset because of the situation I'm in. And why would I want to further that? But I was telling her yesterday, I'm like, you know, I'm glad I'm having these different perspectives on things because I shouldn't be taking work home with me. I shouldn't take things out on you. I can understand why people do that stuff because you get so caught up. And how, how, how does that benefit anybody? It doesn't. And who's really winning?

No.

The place you're working at because you're off the clock, yet you're still on the clock in your mind while you're not getting paid. So that's even worse. And to turn that switch off is very difficult. I try to say in my mind, You know, how strong am I when I show up to this place? Like, I literally go from church and I leave church and go straight to the ER. And I have the best testimonies at church, the best just fellowship, worship. It feels great. It's invigorating. I'm like, yes, Lord. Yes. And I get to work and it's like, why, Lord? Why? And it's like immediate test of a man. And I try to challenge myself to say, I can be stronger than this. I should be stronger than this. This is to test my spirit, test my grit, test who I am, my belief. And I fold, man. I ain't gonna lie. Sometimes I fold like a little lawn chair, like in the wind.

Yeah.

Just done. And I'm like, I hate it. I'm so upset. And then I kind of look back and say, well, dang, why do I keep letting this affect me? Why am I letting this win? And I'm still trying to figure that out, but I'm becoming more conscious of how it can affect me, why it does, why it affects other people, and how do you bridge that gap between, you know, the unfulfillment you feel for where you are And who you are as a person and how you should value the things that you do have and not letting that kind of get corrupted. So I'm still struggling to answer your question.

It's hard. And I, and I definitely sympathize with that because it's like the mental weight of the ER gets to you and it just starts building and building and building. And then it's just like, I need to gasp up for air, but it's just like, I just need to keep pushing through it and keep going. But it's just hard. And I don't think— and I think a lot of people don't realize That the people that work in the ER and the people that go to the ER, whether or not they have, like, I guess, the same stress level or the same mental health level where they're going through something, but they're— but we're all going through it. And you can't diminish or can't belittle one person versus the other saying like, oh, hey, like, well, the nurse doesn't know what I'm going through, so they should, they should accommodate me, or vice versa. Like, this patient doesn't know what I'm going through, so he should stop being Being a little like a-hole and actually do and and actually like listen to what I'm trying to give him, like advice and recommendations on how to better his health and everything. So it's hard, but for you, that's that's a normal Tuesday. So you deal with it every single day. But but how do you process? How do you process that? Like do you do you still just like try to chug through it, or do you still try to like rationalize and realize and try to like before? Think before you speak kind of thing.

When it comes to patient care, I can completely isolate the two. Like, I have no issue with that at all. I don't take my frustrations of anything external and bring it to the room because at that point it's a performance. And when you're performing— and not saying that, you know, being fake— but when you're performing, you know, you have to show up as your best. And we are taught that when they come to the ER, that is supposedly the worst day of their life because they come to the ER seeking help. Now, healthcare's changed quite dramatically, and it's not the case no more. Now it's concierge medicine. It's let me fluff your pillow before I do compressions on your chest. That's a whole different story. But I still show up with making my patients happy. We're smiling, we're having a good time because I don't like the environment of me making them upset. And then I'm the one to blame. I would rather me be on their side and let's both blame the hospital for the way things are. And that's kind of my approach. And I'm straight up, like yesterday we had an example, lady came in and she got, she wanted to be transported to a different hospital because she had to be admitted. We're a freestanding emergency room, so we can't keep people overnight. Um, the process took a lot longer than it normally does. She was upset that she was there for 4+ hours. I agreed with her. And I'm saying, listen, I'm all on your side. I, you're going to get a survey in the mail. I want you to don't leave any white on that, on that survey, mark it up. Let them know how you feel, how our Process is a lack thereof of process and pour your heart out. And I completely empathize with you with it. I support you. And I did tell her, I said, listen, when you do do that survey, the person that gets in trouble is me. And then she's like, why? I said, well, because I'm the scapegoat because your care wasn't as what didn't go as planned and you weren't completely satisfied. The nurse taking care of you is the one who should have done all he could have done to make sure that you could have had all the smiles on your face regardless of whatever. So it falls back on me. That's just kind of how it is. And she said, that's not fair. I said, I know it's not fair, but I just want to be transparent with you. I could give you all the corporate policy and read it all to you, but I'm not that person. I'm human to human. This sucks. And I'm sorry that you had to experience this. And I, I, if it was up to me, you wouldn't have to do this. But you know what? It's not up to me. So all I could do is just guide you to the right person to complain to. But because I came with that approach, she respected me way more for being open about it versus listening to other nurses talk about, well, policies and procedures are this.

No.

And well, we're going to have to escalate things to— like, no, I'm not robotic. No one's supposed to hear that crap. But because of that, it helps me be more human-like with people. And that's what people want. They want authenticity, which a lot of people lack, between that and integrity. But I don't like to have people misjudge who I am and think that I have different intentions or I'm just not me. I'm really big on integrity and it all comes down to who I am as a person and how I take care of the patients. And a lot of my staff will say, Justin, you and your patients always having a good time. You're a really good nurse. And I'm like, I'm glad you say that. Everyone else doesn't as far as the whole management goes, but I appreciate you appreciating me.

So let's take this one level lower. Have you always been that person? Because you said that today, you're fighting for them, this, that, and the other. And you're always on their side. Like, was there ever a version of you going from after graduating college to being in the ER, or sorry, being a paramedic, being an EMT, to where you are now? Was there ever like a shift, or was it always that, that you always had that foundation where it was like, I'm gonna fight for them side, like one way or another? Or was it like you were— At first, like, well, we got to stick to the policies and protocol and this, that, and the other. And then something shifted and you're like, no, like, I shouldn't be acting this way. Like, I should be helping them. I should be advocating for them a little bit more.

No, I've always been that way because I'm the same person. I'm— I go against the grain personally. Like I said, growing up, I didn't do what everyone else did. I was not the just sleep with a bunch of girls. I wasn't smoking weed when everyone's smoking weed. When in high school everyone had the beer parties and stuff. I didn't drink alcohol. Like, I always did the opposite and against— and when you look at the principle of that, that means I go against procedure. I go against the policy. And I'm easy to do that. I, I love a policy so I could just say, all right, where's the line? Bet I'm stepping over it. I don't care. And if it gets me in trouble, I'm not going to fold when it comes to that. Because I think that's where a lot of people go wrong is they don't know— they, they allow themselves to be confined and to be shut up when it comes to certain things. And they don't speak their minds, speak their hearts, and then they carry it and it becomes a burden. And then it becomes regret. I wish I did that. I wish I helped that person out a little bit more. I could have done that. And I mean, I'm gonna do all I can. And unless you're just a complete dick.

Yeah.

And we have patients that are complete jerks. And I'm straight up, like, I'm walking out the room. Like, I'm like, hey, I didn't go to your house and start yelling at you in your kitchen. Right here, this is unacceptable. I'm sorry, but you got to get somebody else. Like, I fire them as a patient.

Like, I'm done with you.

And I walk out. Like, absolutely not. I'm not about that. But yeah, my process has always been the same. I mean, it just got more enhanced as I became more conscious about what I was really doing. I just didn't know what I was doing. I was just going through the motions. But it started making sense when I realized a supervisor would say this, but I'm like, that's not right. And they're like, well, that's what it is. And I'm like, well, that's not what I'm doing.

Yeah.

And when I start thinking like that, then it's like, okay, They're cutting corners, they're saving dollars. It's profiting. It's about business and it's about CYA. I understand it now. This is the game of business in healthcare.

Did you ever feel like you or other nurses that you've worked with throughout your line of— without your— within your history of working in the medical field, like that they had to like basically, I guess, bottle down all their feelings? Just to make it through a shift, whether it's been emotionally, mentally, what have you?

Every shift, every nurse, everybody. Yep. Because the problem is, and I'm the guy to say, if we don't all come to work, what are they going to do? Or if they keep bringing all these patients on us and we stop seeing them, what are they going to do? Where's management when things go wrong? Like I'm the guy to ask those questions and I'll poke that bear and everyone's like, whoa, whoa, no, don't, don't just— we need our jobs. We need our jobs. And it makes sense because they will sacrifice themselves because they just need the paycheck. They need the money. So when I hear that, I'm like, okay, so you guys don't have any backbone because you rely on the paychecks from them and you'll just fold and do whatever for the money. So now we're chasing money. So that's a principle right there is that we'll do whatever we can for the dollar. So I'm like, all right, well, I'm clearly alone with this.

So who takes care of the person that's been taking care of them? There's always, there's always been like this expectation that you have to be the strongest one, that people are always coming to you when something's wrong, never when something's right. Like you said, like in the ER, like this is where they need to be because everything's critical, everything's high emergency, high alert kind of thing. But who takes— but what happens after? Or what happens when you're not okay? What happens? What does stress look like to you? Like dealing with all of the stuff that you're dealing with, like from day to day and just like, and then you have like the worst day ever and then you're coming to work and it keeps going downhill from there. Like who takes care of you?

God, that's it.

Me.

There's nobody I can go to. I can't go and complain to somebody about the situations because at the end of the day, They don't care. They're gonna maybe ask some questions on why things are, and then we'll see what we can do. It's usually what it comes down to. So I'd rather not waste my breath, waste my effort, waste anything, because it does not matter. Only way changes happen, and I'll just say this bluntly, only way changes happen is if more people die. If more people will die and they'll see that there's big problems, then changes will be made. But until then, nothing's gonna change. And that's at any hospital. It doesn't make a difference where. I hear The changes that are made at our place is based off of what other people do. They'll say, oh, we got rid of that staff, or we stopped— we make the nurses do this now instead of them not having to do that anymore because a different hospital does and it seems to work. And then it seems to work because, well, on paper it looks like it works, but then ask the people how they feel about it. That's a whole different conversation. So there's no one to talk to when it comes to any issues you have. I mean, you can Try to form some type of committee to help, but it's— you're gonna get cut. They're gonna fire you or something like that. And so it's like, it's like, what's worth it at that point? So you just be alone. You just keep showing up. You'd be upset, get unhappy. All the nurses that I see, they're getting divorced, they're unhealthy, they're fat. They just want to drink alcohol, and they have to keep showing up to work to keep paying their debt bills that they keep accumulating. And it's like the lifestyles that they created is just Not good. So yeah, it's actually— it sounds pretty depressing, but it's true. Healthcare is the least healthiest. Well, I guess that's the title of this video.

I mean, it can be. Yeah, definitely. For sure. I mean, have you ever caught yourself like, I guess like we talked about this, right? And I just wanted to make sure that I understand like, so you have you caught yourself like trying to minimize your problems for, for other people just because They're going through something much worse than you are, or have you— or you just—

I don't even bother. I'm so isolated from it. I, I just focus on my problems. I literally do. I don't ask for help because— and this could be a whole separate conversation. But again, if you are at work and you have an obligation at work to do certain things based off of what you do and you don't do it, I shouldn't be the one to come tell you to do your job. If we have a person that comes in with chest pain, it's the same thing we've been doing every single time for the past thousands of patients we've seen. We get them in the back, we do an EKG, we do blood work, we do— we put them on a blood pressure cuff, heart monitor, all this stuff. Same thing. Takes about 10 minutes to get everything done. I shouldn't have to keep asking somebody to come start an IV, to come put a patient on a monitor, to come grab this, come do this. I shouldn't ask people to do that when you see things need to be done. But I would rather just do it myself than keep having to ask for somebody to do their job. And it becomes dependent because then when you keep asking them, now all of a sudden it's like, oh God, you can't do anything on your own without having to ask somebody. And I hear that about other nurses who ask people to do certain things. And now it feels like, oh, they're so useless. They can't do anything by themselves. So I would rather not even deal with the battle, deal with any of it. I'll just do it myself. And then they see, man, Justin, you just do everything yourself. Like, well, yeah. Who am I gonna ask? That person sitting over there? That person not caring? That person with the AirPods in while we have patients? What are we talking about right now? So I just keep everything isolated right in here, right in here. And then it's not healthy. No, not at all. But that's why burnout exists, because people get burnt out by having to deal with that day to day, all day, every day. And 12-hour shifts is a long time of having to live in that world.

I love how you bring up burnout because of— because you actually Jumped the gun a little bit, and I was going to ask you about that. So like, a lot of people use that term very loosely. So like, I guess, has the definition of burnout changed from what you knew it before you got into this field to where it is now?

Yeah, I didn't understand what burnout meant. Like, they always kept saying, ah, nurse burnout, nurse burnout. And I'm like, well, how do you get burnt out? Because— and this is my old mindset of just, you're getting there for the paycheck and Dollars per hour. So it just made sense in my limited mind. But then when I realized to stop chasing money, it made sense. Okay, I see the burnout. So if I'm working 6 12-shifts straight and I do this every other week, that's burnout. I'm just tired of working there. Burnout of the patients, the types of patients we get, the burnout of the lack of management managing us. And telling us things that we need to do. That's burnout. Burnout from new procedures they keep putting on us to do, or new courses that we have to do for our accreditation, for our licensure. And they keep adding new stuff on there, like burnout of that. Like, that's fatigue. It's— there's so many different realms of burnout that at the very whole process of a burnout is nursing burnout and being devalued go hand in hand. You get burned out because you get burned.

So what's harder then, carrying the things that you've seen or pretending that they haven't affected you at all?

They go hand in hand. I just kind of stopped caring. So it doesn't really hurt. But then it hurts because I care. And I feel like I'm betraying a part of me because I should care. So it's like having that, that tug of war on don't care but care, Justin, but you shouldn't care. It's not your, not your monkey, not your circus. But yeah, I'm still part of it though. I've been a part of it and it hurts to see how it is, but then you just got to walk away.

But like you said it good.

And that's where like, yeah, and it's like when you realize, you know, you try to change a system but you can't change systems. You know, the systems usually change you. And everybody wants to be a lawyer, go to politics and make all these changes in this system and everything's corrupt. But then either you become a part of the corruption and add to it, or you just get corrupted in general, or you just give up because you realize this is— I thought this is something I could tackle on, but it's not. There's a lot more to this. This is gonna take years. And at that point you start realizing, well, what's worth my time? Am I gonna try to change something that's not gonna— I mean, it potentially could be changed, but I'm not passionate enough to be that person. I'm not passionate enough to say, well, Justin, you wanna do something, then go back to school, get your master's, and then try to run a hospital. Like, I am— that's absolutely not me. So I'm just going to take my, my passion I have and help those not get trapped to where they're at.

Okay. Because I was, because I was going to ask you, because it's like you're— because like it's hard because you're in that tug of war. But then when you were mentioning earlier that like you want— you strive to help people, so it's kind of like hard. So I guess I'm just trying to envision and trying to figure out like how I would handle it and I can't really think of anything because like, I would try to be my own person, but also at the same time trying to look at it from your side. And it's like, I think it would be hard for me because it's like a part of my life growing up, I was a people pleaser. So it's like, how do I, how do I figure out when I could stop being a people pleaser and focus on trying to be my actual person? So it's like you said, it's a tug of war. So it's definitely hard.

I think it's a tug of war when— if you're trying to help out, like, your patients, because you can— your patients could be that outlier, the outlier for that. So you can help them, which would be an advocate for them, and then go against the people you don't like, which is the hospital, for example, in this one. And we can both make them the bad guy, but we're together. So I can get that fixture of I'm helping and doing my due diligence, helping somebody out by making a common enemy. And that's who I work for. The flip side of that is I don't allow them, the hospital or the circumstances, the burnout, for me to affect the patients because it's not always their fault. Sometimes it's their fault and customers are not always right.

Yeah.

But I don't, out of malice, just take it out on them because I'm having a bad day or this place sucks. So we're just going to— no, that's not me. And that's how I can have my easy tug of balance there. Now I'm talking about me being passionate to change the hospital system. That's a different beast that I'm not passionate about. And the tug of war is I shouldn't care that it is the way it is, but I care that it is the way it is. And that's my tug of war that I have there.

Okay. Do you ever struggle with like slowing down? Like just like everything down? Like just like when everything— when life gets really hard, like have you ever tried to like slow down and try to decompress and try to like relax and try to like Take— basically reflect, self-reflect on what has happened throughout the day and try to be better tomorrow, if you will.

Yes, I have a problem with that. I am constantly on the go. I don't have time. And this, we could break this down in multiple pieces. One, we could talk about gratitude, meaning that you achieve something but you don't have time to reflect on your achievement. You're already moving on to the next thing. That's one issue I have is I could accomplish things And I don't pause, smell the flowers, take a victory lap. I just say, okay, this is what I have to do next. That's a problem that I have. Next thing would be working 36 hours straight. And then Monday starts and I run multiple businesses. So I have to wake up and just instant switch back to now this of showing up for a podcast, helping my, my insurance clients with my life and health insurance. They have questions about things, responding back to emails. So it's like, I never take a pause to wake up, not do something for one second, and have to be thoughtless in anything and turn it off for a second. So that's the next issue I have is like, I'm always on go because it's like switching a switch, a switch that's always on, but you can switch it. It's just never off. It's either toggling on this thing, this relay or this relay. We're getting into physics relays now. But yeah, so I, I have a problem with that. It's an ongoing problem, and that is something that is my 2027 goal to minimize.

Yeah, because it's like when we talked about before when we had like our one-on-ones where it's like, it's hard to ex— it's hard to see what other people see. Like, so like you give people flowers and it's hard to accept them. So I definitely see what you're saying because like I see it like that. So it's like Where people are here saying like, Justin, thank you so much for your help. Like, you're really the best, this, that, and the other. And you're just like, it's part of my job. Like, I just do what I do. Like, I, it's hard. It's hard to accept kindness and accept that, that compliment because it's like, did I really do good? Or, or are they just like, like just kind of like boosting my ego because like, so it's, it's, it's definitely hard. So, but Yeah.

And I will say, even adding on that, because that's something that my wife and I talk about a lot, is, you know, I spend more time listening to people than I talk. And ironically, as it is, but I— all I do is listen. And if I do speak, I listen, one, because I am generally interested and I've always liked giving people the floor. The problem is, is that when people see me as a listener, all they want to do is vent. And when they vent, it's always about me, me, me, me, me. And I realize that Sometimes I have a hard time connecting with people because there's a lot of problems that they pour on me that I just generally don't care about. And instead of me being blunt and just saying, listen, you complained about the same thing. It's been 2 years now. Like, what? Don't talk to me again about the same problem until you have a new problem or you fix this problem. I need to just be more direct with that. And where I'm going with that is that if someone asks me about how I'm doing, I'll go and start speaking a little bit and then They flip it and make it about them again. And I'm like, so then what's the point of me even having these conversations? But then I also realized that these are the kind of people I talk to or I'm around. And those people are shaped a certain way, which is that environment. And that's like, well, I don't want to be a part of that environment. So I'm slowly disassociating myself with those thought processes with, how do I not— I hate selfish acts. Everyone's selfish. This is what it is. And How do I better other people? You got to ask more questions for other people, not about yourself.

You're right. I mean, it's it's hard because you're trying to figure out like well, I don't know. I can't trying to figure out how I can word because your mind's constantly on the go, and it's like I don't know if I need to sit there like you said, like you said in the beginning. I can't sit there and just smell the roses and and just and have a thoughtless moment in my life. Like I have to keep going because that's who I am. That's what you're driven to be, and it's hard. Or is it easy for you to basically keep going rather than just sit still all the time? Like well, or take a take a minute, take a five. You know, like is it is it easier to to just keep going because you feel like if you don't keep going, then like there's like with your other businesses, is it like well if I waste five minutes, kind of like my dad's mentality where it's like if I waste five minutes, that five minutes I could be making. making an extra dollar, or I could help that extra person, or I could do something with that time, and I just got to keep going. Or do I actually want to just sit still for a second, relax, recenter, refocus, and then realign what you need to do?

Yeah, there's a fine balance between all of that, and taking the pause Reflect, reset is way more valuable than keep going. Because while you continue to burn that candle or step on the gas, eventually you're gonna run outta fuel. And then what's gonna happen? Yeah. I mean, at the same time, you're wearing the engine down, meaning we're wearing ourselves down. We're fatiguing ourselves further. We're not showing up as our best, meaning we're not performing our best. And how do we just take the break and not do something for once? We could have a mental reflect and just be refreshed coming into it stronger. And it's like bodybuilding, right? For us, the more you work out, the more damaging you do to your body. But when you recover, that's when you really grow. And it's hard for us to turn off. If we're not in the gym grinding and pushing our bodies to the limit, then we're not growing. We're not doing anything. But really, we need to not be in the gym for that one day. Take a day off. Reset your body so you can actually be stronger next time you come in. Like, it's all the same principle, even with Showing up every single day and the business stuff, and the problem is when you start doing too much of too many different things, that's where the issue is. And that's why it's never wise to do what I'm doing. And that's why people say just stop one thing and do the other thing, because if you try to catch two rabbits, you catch none. So focus all on that one rabbit. And I'm dropping a lot of different analogies all in the same sentence.

Hey, you got a second? Yeah, it's me, Danny Francois, creator of Beneath the Surface podcast. What do you think of the episode so far? Pretty good, right? But let's take a minute right now to take a break. What if you had a place where you didn't have to pretend you were okay? A place where you could talk about what's really going on beneath the surface without judgment, without having all the answers, and without feeling like you just have to wear a mask. That's why I created Beneath the Surface Unmasked. It's a community for real conversations about mental health, identity, growth, belonging, and everything we normally keep to ourselves. Whether you're trying to feel safe enough to open up, figure out who you are, navigate through something difficult, or simply just find people who understand, there's a place for you here, right here, because your story matters. You matter. Join Beneath the Surface Unmasked on Skool. Link is in the bio. Come as you are. It's a great community and there's no judgment. All right, let's get back to the episode. It's, and it's very like calming and very like, it's very good to hear what you have to say and with the different analogies and everything, because I consider that as ambition and ambition is, is something key that a lot of people either should have or that they do have. And It's, it's showing what you're working towards and what you're trying to better in the future. And, and I've seen your posts about building businesses, content, uh, coaching people, helping people, helping myself on one-on-ones and everything. And just wanting to be, like you said in the beginning also, like you want to continue to grow. But where does that drive come from? Like, like how, how would you describe that? And where, and the origin, like your superhero arc story, like where does that come from?

Origin of it? I think the origin is in pieces. There's no like one concrete story, you know, like some superheroes, some beginnings are kind of like mysterious where there's not like a, every single step was there. It was a little bit about he came from this place, he came from that planet, then he did this. And there's like all those skips and whatever led him to where he is now. It's just the principle about it. I think that's kind of like mine. Like, I don't have a true origin story where it was like, that was it, and from there he became this. There— it wasn't that. It's been fragmented with knowing that a lot of people live life with a lot of regrets, and we have regrets in our own way of different things. I'm gonna regret being as burnt out as I am all the time, or just doing so much. I know that's gonna be my one regret. I already know that. And I don't want to not push myself in a way that I can't tell— how do I say this? There's a lot of opportunity that people sleep on because they choose to make excuses on why they can't do things. We said the word hard and say easy. We choose our hard. We choose what's easy. It's easy to just do something. It's easy to do the wrong things. There's a lot of ways we can navigate life, but a lot of people live and build it on saying things are too hard or they have an excuse on why they can't do it. And I'm still trying to find what is making me move every single day. Why do I get up to go to the gym? I get asked that all the time. Why do you still do this? It's been years. You're still doing it. Why? And I'm like, I just do it. It's just a part of me. It's just, it's me. And well, what is me? What does that mean? That's because I'm— I want to be driven. I don't want to be on the couch doing nothing, watching Netflix. Like, there's a whole life that happens and goes by. And to each his own. For the person that wants to sit and watch shows, like, that's their, their thing is the bucket list, every show that shows up. Okay, cool. That's you. But for me, I want to be actionable. I want to build something that my future family can say, man, dad did something great. Like, I'm building legacies. I'm showing up. I'm showing other people I'm inspiring other people to, to be inspired to do something. And that kind of resonates with me and stays true to my core. And it's like, I want to get up. I don't want to be an old person just saying, I wish I did more of this, or I wish I had time to do this. And I know there's gonna be things I'm gonna say in the future. But for the time being, and while I'm kind of in the sauce, I want to just keep moving. And I don't have no plans to stop. I'm just gonna stay hungry. I'm a fat boy at heart. So we're gonna keep eating.

Can discipline and self-compassion exist together, though?

Can. But you got to know what you're being disciplined on.

How so?

And what's your passion on? Your passion's on the wrong things.

Take me a look. Take me a level deeper. Explain. What do you mean by that?

If you're disciplined on your passion, if you know what your passion is and you have a good framework, good strategy, you can stay very disciplined in your routine. But if you're passionate and using it as a loose word, saying you just are passionate about doing work, then that could get very messy. And Anybody can say that they're working. Anybody can say that I'm doing something, but are you doing something that's moving the needle in the direction you want to go in? Is it helping your business? Is it helping your marriage? Is it helping you spiritually? But if I'm just saying I'm doing something just for the hell of doing it, then it's— you're not doing much. You're just thinking you're doing it. So to go hand in hand, you got to be strategic with what you're building, what you're doing. Like I said, what I'm doing in my transition is Semi-strategic, but it's not— I wouldn't recommend it for somebody to do it because it takes a lot of grit. It takes a lot of self-awareness with knowing what your limits are, or if you feel like you are limitless, or do drugs and just keep pushing through, which a lot of people do.

Everyone's on Adderall, sad to say. But yeah, yeah.

Yep. And in my eyes, that's a crutch, and I wouldn't want to do that because now I feel like I'm gonna at some point rely on it and need it in order to function. And when I don't have it now, I feel like I can't function because the placebo and everything else it gives me. So I'd rather just— we're going all hardcore natural.

So let's talk about something. Let's kind of flip the switch, like, like you said earlier, flip the switch off of everything that we talked about with like the ER and who you were and this, that, and the other. And let's talk about something a little bit more personal— your wife. You said that Cassandra has, has been there for you. She's— she supports you, this, that, and the other. So How has marriage to her changed your understanding of vulnerability? And, and how does she see, or how does she help you communicate, like to voice out when something is struggling to you?

Well, marriage in general, being married, honestly, I'll just say that first of all, the title of being a husband, it took some time to get used to. And it wasn't just a title. It's not like I'm just her boyfriend or I can leave whenever I want to. Like, this is a partnership. This is something that is holy. You know, this is something that's— we're here together. We said our vows for a reason. So I had to not single Justin or solo Justin or anything like that. Like, this is a team. It's a team sport. And with team sports, you got to work together to win. So with being married in general, it was less about a competition between each other on who does what, who doesn't do what, but more of like, well, how can we complement and make whatever we're lacking work? Or how do we fill the gap for each other? And instead of it being 50/50, how do we make it 80/20 on both sides? I show up 80%. She has 20% that she needs to do. She shows up 80%. And then there's 20%. That way it's not so Like, oh, you and her, tug of war. But just the principle of that alone has helped me tremendously with how I show up because all I think about is everything I do reflects on her. And in my eyes, she's my queen and my queen should be treated with royalty. So again, if I'm not taking action on doing things, then I'm just letting her sit by the sideline and her life's going to go by too. And I'm not helping us as a family, as a unit. You know, building something for both of us together.

So how would you protect the relationship when both people are, but are, are trying to build things? Like whether it's her with her sourdough business and you with your, your leadership and your insurance businesses. How do you protect it when people are, when both people are ambitious and constantly building something of themselves? Like building whether a brand or building like a platform, if you will?

You protect it with communication because that's the one ingredient to make the perfect— since we're saying sourdough, the perfect bread, right? A lot of people don't communicate with each other. You know, they assume the other person knows what they're saying or thinking, or they're too arrogant, too prideful. And it's a competition. And in order for something like a business to work together, we have to— and it's a shameless plug to our podcast— you got to be on the same page. And the only way to do that is to communicate, you know, have vulnerable conversations, be real, be raw, be authentic. And everybody gets divorced. Everybody is— and I say everybody because a lot of people just get divorced. Like, divorce is the easy button to make it— to not have to make it work. Oh, I don't want to be with you. Just get divorced. It's so simple to say, but divorce isn't an option. We both agree to that. And how do we also make that not an availability to do? Well, it's because we put God in the middle of us. We made God the glue. And by doing that, it's giving us better purpose. It's giving us principles. And again, life is filled— if you have principles in your life, you can win at life. Because at the very core, no matter what happens, that is the one thing that is recession-proof. And that is having a principle, a part of your lifestyle. So with that, it helps us build our businesses. It helps us communicate. It helps us in our troubled times when things are just shit's hitting the fan and we don't know what to do. Well, we have each other. We're going to pray about it. We're going to stick together and not make each other enemies. So it makes everything else easy. It makes us bulletproof. So that's how we do it.

If you ever had the chance to do it over again or to tell your younger self, And advice. Give your younger self advice. What would you have said or say to them? And if it's like the same, if it's the same thing that you've been practicing what you're preaching day in and day out on your, on your platforms, on, on Zoom calls, on your leadership conferences, all of that. So what would you tell yourself?

Stay the course. Whatever's in your heart that's making you stay and go away from what everyone else is doing, there's a reason you're doing it. Don't question it too much, just do it. And when the time's right, you'll understand why you're doing what you're doing. A lot of times we start questioning a lot and we start— and questioning is good, but questioning and then making changes without data can be detrimental. And I feel like if I were to give in to do what everyone else was doing, and just of anything, like I said, the drinking, the smoking, all that stuff, if I started giving in and conforming, I probably wouldn't be the same person I would. It's easy to say that. But would I go back and do life or do those things again? Honestly, I probably would. And we joke about that with pledging. So in our frat, we always joke, would you ever pledge again? And we're like, yeah. Why not? Well, you wouldn't want to go through that. You'd go through that again. Like, well, yeah, I did it before. I could do it again. At that point, it's now it's like I'm building more. I've learned when you play video games, you'll play a level that was probably hard. You beat it. But then there's certain things you got to do in the level to get the perfect score, right? You got to collect all the coins. You got to find all the missing pieces. So what do you do? You go back and replay that level again. And now you start collecting things that you missed before. And now you start seeing different things in that level that you're like, oh man, I didn't know it was there. Oh, I didn't realize all I had to do was jump on that guy and he dies. You start learning more about those things that you've already passed. So now you become even stronger and better. So I feel like that's a learning experience there. Whereas if you say, I don't want to do it again, that's defeating you. It's beating you. It's saying that it was stronger and you barely made it out and you just, I don't want to do it again. So I'm pushing it to the side. I'm keeping it in a box because I don't want to— Face it again. No, I'd face it again. No, absolutely. Exes, problems, bullies I've had in the past, I'd face them again. Sure. And I could confidently say that because I have always said something like that. And if danger happened and something happened, whenever, like, would you do that again? Unless it was something that's going to take your life or anything crazy, that's a different story. No. Then yeah, I would face that adversity again just because I want to How am I as today? Am I still as strong? Am I stronger? Is it still my kryptonite? Let's find out. That's my take on that.

So we talked about, before we wrap things up, we talked about the past Justin, the present Justin. What does the future Justin look like? What version of you do you strive to be or you want to be in the future?

Man, this future Justin, this boy is going to be traveling. He's going to be on stages.

He's speaking.

He's telling testimonies. He is Helping other people build themselves up, building their brands, building their personality, building who they are, uncovering who they are, because people want to go discover and find themselves. No, you are who you are. You need to uncover. When you— we go to church and we want to try to clean up before we go to church. Somehow we've connected this with one of your previous podcasts.

Yeah.

Yeah. You don't just— you show up messy. Just get cleaned up in the process of it. And that's kind of what I want to help other people do is not show up perfectly polished. Just make the post. But also be a father at some point too. So future dad coming soon. Not pregnant now, but you know.

You heard it here first. No, but I mean, I would, to echo what you're saying about like helping other people, I will, I will be there to admit that you've helped me along the way. Since we started this mentorship back in, I wanna say it's been about 3 or 4 months now.

Yes.

But, but you've definitely, you've definitely helped me and, and like, I'm giving you your flowers like I've done on many of our one-on-ones. But I think it's, it's good for other people to hear it too, that, that like you are doing the difficult work and you are You're fighting the good fight, and and we wanna we wanna definitely appreciate and self reflect and basically tell people that like hey, like it's not all BS. It there's a lot of work and a lot of things that have to change. But like we've said plenty of times here, one on ones, phone calls, emails, Zoom calls, what have you. You gotta just keep doing those reps, and I think that's very important, and I think. that I'm doing them slowly but surely. I'm doing them. I may not be physically strong, but like mentally, like we talked about before, mentally I'm, I'm getting there. So I definitely appreciate it. So, so I definitely wanted to give you your kudos and everything. So of course, appreciate that. Is there— so I guess the last question that I have, right, is like, what's beneath the surface of Justin that many people don't see? That when the camera's off, when the light shows off and everything, what's the version that, uh, that people don't always get to see from you? Social media aside.

Well, I'm pretty authentic with what I do, so I post good, bad, ugly. I post all of it. So the part that people don't see, I know it's hard to say because I kind of— I'm pretty out there and I'm not ashamed of a lot of the things I do. I would think, I mean, even down to family problems, I post a lot about it. But I guess it's that people don't even know who I am in general. I mean, a lot of people didn't know I was in healthcare. A lot of people didn't know my different businesses I do. They just see me showing up online. And because I do so much different things, people get confused on what I actually do. And as a business owner, I understand that that is my fault, my problem, because that is what I portrayed. And usually you want to just be one thing and be really good at it. But I'm, I'm a lot of things and I'm not really good at all of them. So it's kind of like the jack of all trades story. But I just want to be transparent and say I'm figuring out, like, I'm not perfect. I don't know everything. I don't know it all. I don't have it figured out at all. I'm building life in public and I'm not ashamed to say that. And I think that a lot of people want to always be perfect and be the one. And I'm just the one who's doing it. Out here in the open. So I'll say it like that. That's kind of— if people don't know about me, I ain't Jesus. Which means I'm not perfect.

Exactly. But no, I want to— like I said, I want to thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to, to talk about the man beneath the scrubs, right? And I think a lot of people forget that nurses are people too. Doctors are people. Like, there's more than meets the eye. Like, just don't put them on that God complex of like, oh, he's a doctor, he's all-knowing, he's— he knows more than I do. He may tell me not to use Dr. Google, but like, he knows all this, that, and the other. Like, no, what?

Bro, I wish that was the case, bro. People come into— bro, people come to the ER and they're telling us what they want. So it's like not even us to be the end-all be-all. It's like, well, what, what would you like? What would you like? No cheese on that burger? And it's like, Dr. Google is the end-all be-all. Like, that is God. Like, Dr. Google, they come here with their phone, they're like, this is what I have, doctor, so I need you to give me this medicine. Thanks.

Yeah. In closing, I wanted to say that this really wasn't just about you giving us your origin story of being an ER nurse or the entrepreneur side or the man behind the brand and everything. It's just you, right? It's just you. Wholehearted, authentic, raw, real, everything. The real Justin Page. So thank you. For taking off those metaphorical scrubs and talking to us here today. But yeah, and to anybody that's listening and carrying that weight, that feel like that they can't be themselves, you can. It's easy. You just got to take that first step. And you may have to see other people do it before diving into it, which is fine. But just know You got this, and you'll be stronger because of it. So that's it for me.

1000%.

I'm Danny, and that's Justin.

I'm Justin.

And thank you for diving beneath the surface with us. Catch us later on another episode. And also, by the way, if you guys need to have some kind of entrepreneur level set or had that side of the business where like you're struggling and you want to know more and everything, check out Justin's channel too on the next page where he talks about everything and literally everything. So not just— I'm not just supporting my podcast, I'm supporting fellow content creators. So check out him and his wife's podcast, link's gonna be in the bio. But yeah, you guys matter. So whether you need to come here to dive beneath the surface about certain things that you want to let out in the open, or you want to get on the same page and basically figure out what meaning you have behind your life and your business and your future, there's Justin's. But we're here to help. You just got to take that first step.

There it is. Beautifully said.

Of course.

Appreciate you, brother.

All right, I will catch you guys later on the next episode. See ya.