BYOU - Thought leader in mental health Jennifer Yeager Lloyd

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Bio Podcast. My name is Nick Mossam and I'm the founder of Bio, and in this podcast I talk with the greatest people from all around the world, and I'm so excited To share with you today. She is from the United States, and we are going to talk about mental health today. Jennifer is a global recognized thought leader in mental health therapy, known for her deep commitment to help people transform their lives. After, after her father passed away, she was so much more committed. to make this world a better place. Failure was not an option for her. Her journey, shaped by personal loss and unshakable dedication to her work, has inspired countless people across the globe. We are excited to dive into her story to learn more about how she influenced the world, the future of mental health, Let me welcome you, Jennifer. Good morning.

I'm so happy to be here.

Thank you so much for being here. And what an incredible story about, uh, how you are so committed to mental health and, you know, and what you, what you just shared about that failing is not an option. Can you tell me who you are and where this beautiful story is coming from?

I would absolutely love to. So I'm a small town girl at heart living in the United States. I was, I was born and raised in a tiny town called Saggertown, Pennsylvania. We had cows and pigs and chickens. There was one stoplight in my entire town. I was I had a father who was a very intense, driven, hardworking man, really didn't understand emotion. I was a very emotional teenager, so we had a lot of conflict. I had a mother who was a dance teacher and was into theater and choreography. So I had this crazy brain, Danique, that was half really logical and methodical, and the other half was So intense with emotion and feeling. And I can remember being in 5th grade and feeling other people's problems as they walked by. I don't know how else to explain it. It was like if you had passed me in the hallway and you were sad, I would find myself drawn, drawn, like I wanted to go know about you and what you were experiencing. And as I was trying to develop that, I had told my father that I wanted to major in psychology, and he looked me square in the face and he said, well, Jennifer, that's a waste of time helping people. That's— you can't do that. People need to help themselves, and your degree will be something you can only use like toilet paper.

Hmm.

So it became this challenge And then, as you said, a few months after that conversation, at the age of 41, he actually died at work. He had a heart attack at his desk. It was immediately fatal. I was a senior in high school taking a calculus test at the time, and I got called down to the office, and I thought, oh, I was senior class treasurer. What do they need me for now? But they had told me he was in the hospital, and, and that was— The day my entire life changed.

Wow. Yeah. And how— tell me more about that day for you.

Ironically, I passed my high school boyfriend on the way to the hospital, but I— this was long before cell phones, so I didn't have a way to tell him about it. When I got to the hospital, my father was already passed away, and his best friend was standing out there. And he was crying. And I think that was one of the first times I'd ever seen a man cry. So in the days that followed, I met a lot of his college friends who told me, and it's true, oh my gosh, you look just like your father, Pete. But it set me on a path of determination.

Hmm.

And when you said, you know, failure wasn't an option, Jaeger is my maiden name. It means hunter in German. It's the strong, powerful name, you know. I wanted to be this strong, powerful woman, but at that moment in my life, I felt broken and hopeless and confused. And I went back to my own therapist, and it was transformational. The best way I can say it is she, she held the hope that she knew I could take back from her. She, she held it in her hands while I was just crazy and unable to handle my own emotions. And it just solidified for me, this is exactly what I want to do. So now it wasn't just because I felt drawn to the curiosity of someone's story. It wasn't just because I believed in the power of transformation. It was also, I had a stubborn point to prove to my dad.

Mm-hmm.

And I had this recognition that if I hadn't had my own mental health coach and therapist holding a mirror up for me in different places to say, Jennifer, you can do this and you do have the skills. And I know your world has been turned upside down, but you'll be okay. And to this day, she is in her 70s. She is still practicing. And she is absolutely the reason I sit in front of you today. Oh, wow. She helped me transform.

So, wow. And is she the biggest example from you why you do what you do now as a therapist?

Yes, without a doubt. When I met her, it was a few years before my father died. And I was a young impressionable teenager, and she had been a pageant queen. I mean, she was not just beautiful in spirit, she was beautiful in person. She reminded me of Wonder Woman, Lynda Carter, who's an American actress who was in the Wonder Woman show. I have a picture of me I'll have to put on the BU platform. I think it might be on the BU platform.

It—

I'm probably 7 or 8 years old, and I'm standing in my Wonder Woman costume.

Oh my gosh.

But I felt like I had met Wonder Woman truly in all capacities. And she has been, in addition to many other women, my mother, of course, she was the first not family woman though that I felt was on my team.

Yeah.

And that, that is the passion that I have and want to bring to Be You, the ability to Hold hope for somebody when they feel like they can't hold it for themselves. To hold a mirror up. We all have those moments where you look in the mirror and you think, I've got this. And then you hear this voice that goes, you don't got that.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that is so tough. That is so tough when you just look at yourself in the mirror and you have this fire and still this, this Bad fortune. What are you saying to yourself? You don't got this, right? What are you saying? Why are you so crazy? Oh, that is so tough. Yeah.

So that— so, so what drew me to be you and you and your energy and the team's energy was seeing that same passion, seeing that same belief that people naturally have the skills and the tools Within. They just don't know how to get it out.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And the— what you say about Wonder Woman is— when I was a therapist myself and we used those drama, um, and when those kids were in this, for example, Zorro, uh, I asked them, what is your— what is your, your, your hero? You know, who is the hero? Like, if they have like this bad dreams, and then they, they are so scared they cannot go to bed at night. And then I ask them, who is your hero? You know, and then they, they, they, they put on this cape, and then their whole world is changing into this, this, this Zorro. And, and when they are fighting, like for example, to some wolves or some animals they are scared of, they are fighting against it in, in my practice. And then Do it over again. And, you know, in just maybe 1 or 2 sessions, they are not scared anymore. They, they know they have this strength, like, oh wow, I thought I just, I just win from those super scary dreams, animals that I have in my dream. I don't have to be scared. I'm just way stronger than those animals.

Yeah.

And then they can just go to bed super easily. Maybe in, in the first night they need to have this cape because they are Zorro, you know. And if you are in this super strong— and maybe some people need Zorro, maybe some people need God, some people need Jesus, it doesn't matter. But if you have this, this, this strong identity, it can help you, you know. You— I can do everything. And then, you know, your, your, your system or your, your, your, your You're— you as a human can become way stronger because you experience it. You can do it yourself.

Yes.

And it is so, so, so powerful.

And what you're talking about, I think, is the most important part, which is as therapists, we could say to somebody, oh, Danique, you're strong. I believe in you. It is not the same. You can hear that. It is not the same as when you feel it. You, you get the chills. Your, your, your shoulders were like this before, and you felt like you had to make yourself small. And, and then you suddenly realize you're, you're not small after all. You're, you're powerful and you're courageous. And yes, you're worried and you're nervous and you don't always know what to do next. But with someone like a therapist holding that mirror up and saying, just look a little closer. One of my favorite things is trying to help my clients figure out how to get still.

Mm-hmm.

So they can really observe their strengths. I try to ask them to picture, you know, If you've been a toddler in a stream and you're looking for fish, but you're stomping around as you are. And so you're making all of this cloudy water. You can't— the fish are there. They're not gone just because you don't see them. But you have to stand still. And that's so hard when the world is chaotic. And you're moved all around by all these— there's politics and there's a pandemic and there you're fighting with your neighbor, your business just folded and To be still is so hard in those moments.

Yeah.

So I feel like that's really what else ends up needing to happen for clients is you— but you have to reach out, hold my hands. I'm going to help you be still. I'm not going to do the work for you because I've already figured out how to do my things. Where my flaws are, where my strengths are. I'm going to help you find out that for you, and I'm not going to tell you where they are because I don't know you yet. I'm going to get to know you. I'm going to show my own craziness and flaws, and then together we'll be messy together and we'll figure it out.

Yeah, um, so amazing. And what is it that it is so tough to just stand still? Because You know, I experienced myself to be just still. What is the first step that you need to take?

Taking a breath. And I know that that sounds really corny. And I often will say to my clients, corny therapist moment. And then I will say, I need you to take a breath. Think about it. When we feel like we can't breathe, what happens? Immediately the message goes to our stress center. Our stress center is like having a smoke alarm in our body, right? And it gives us endorphins and adrenaline and cortisol, these stress hormones, and it makes us say, do something, do something, do something. Fight or flight. Run away. Hide. Do something, do something.

So you—

Take a breath. Okay. Oxygen to the brain.

That's good.

Also clarity. And we forget sometimes, if you look around as an adult, look at your officemates or look at your spouse if you have one, and notice when they're stressed, what are they doing? They're breathing quickly, or you hear somebody go, This deep sigh. What is that? It's an expression, a release of the stress. The breath. So people think it's corny. Oh, I'm going to take a breath and I'm going to feel better?

Yeah.

Yes, actually, yes.

It can be just so simple. Why are we not aware of the simplicity? Why do we need to make things complicated?

Because the brain tries to tell us more is better. And I'm going to pick on America for a second. We are terrible at this. The United States, North America, the idea is Go and produce and be. He who works the hardest is the winner. I started to learn about—I'm not going to pronounce it correctly—Hygge, Hygge, H-Y-G-G-E. This Danish concept of rest and restoration and relaxation. And I—I—the second I had a client tell me about this word, I had never heard this before. It's like this cultural. Danish Scandinavian concept that we naturally need restoration. We need peace. Animals hibernate. They don't constantly forage for food. They go and they sleep in their caves. But we have this mindset as a human being that we have to go and go and go and go. And so I think part of it is biology makes it hard for us to settle down. Another factor is family belief systems. I was raised by a workaholic father, and his idea was the harder you work, the better you are as a human being, or your productivity equals your self-worth.

Mm-hmm.

So think about that. If my internal message is that my productivity equals my self-worth, The reverse of that would be when I'm resting, I'm not productive. So then when I'm not productive, do I not have value or am I less valuable? Am I less important? Am I less worthy because I'm not producing?

Mm-hmm.

So this Hygge or Hygge, I can never remember how to say this. I'm fascinated with soaking up this concept, with creating not just lifestyles but physical spaces in a client's home. Where do you go that you can be encouraged visually and with what you're hearing? Where is it easier for you To relax. So as I'm sitting here, I have the sound of crackling fire behind me. I have my Himalayan salt lamp over there in the corner. I have my bird feeders outside because this is where I work all day.

Oh, yeah.

So I want it to be a space that cultivates my own sense of calm.

Oh, wow. Yeah, amazing. Yeah, wow. And so that is your place where you calm down, your workplace, or is there any other place where you—

This— I intentionally created some of those things in this office. I don't love this color. We've only lived in this house for 1 year. We moved everything that we owned 1 year ago, so we have to fix the color of this. But I tried to put things in this room because I'm in here 10 hours a day at least that that I want to cue my nervous system to be okay. The other room that I have in my house is probably the room, if you were coming over as a guest of mine, that I would love to sit in. There's a fireplace, there's a mantle, there are some nice dark, calming, rich pieces of furniture. Not rich value, it's hand-me-down used, but rich in color and in texture. There are wood tones. I'm a big nature girl. Stones and sticks make me happy, Danique.

I had the same actually when I had my practice office. It was so warm with those woods everywhere and plants and just a super nice place where you can sit, where you can feel at home. You, you know, this, this home vibe. That's so nice. Yes. That you don't feel that you are at a therapist office.

Right. And I do want to say, I know that the people that are listening might be wondering, why, why would I do something virtual when I could go to a physical office? And I understand the physical office that I had in the United States. My pride and joy was when I used to do child therapy and a child would walk in and say, is this your home, Jennifer?

Because I—

it did look cozy like that. I think the advocacy piece that I have for why we start to do virtual, and I was doing virtual 5 years before COVID because of the clients that I had. I had a lot of teenagers going off to college. So that, that was great. COVID was not a change for me. I already knew how to do all of this. But I think the reason is this is what 2024 is about now.

Mm-hmm.

People are busy. People are on the go. It is hard to find piece, you were saying, you know, how do you cultivate that sense of calm when you're on the go, you're traveling for work, or you're taking your kid to soccer? So the beauty of Be You is it goes wherever you are. And if it takes you away from the space you created in your home—

Yeah.

It takes you away from the space you created, your zen space in your office, You still have it.

Yeah, I know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And this is such a big thing, for example, for busy moms or busy entrepreneurs. Like, where do we have the time? You only need to have your mobile phone, and we are always on our mobile phone. Just click in with, with Jennifer and have this nice conversation where she can you know, give you that peace and the calm where so you can go just go on and do your thing and you don't have to go to offices. You don't have to drive to anywhere or, you know, or you don't need your laptop. You know, you can just have your therapist on the go actually.

Right, right, right. It's like you're taking me like you're taking your cup of coffee. I go where you go. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, so yeah, and what is the most easiest, simplest step for people to start, uh, having a therapist? Because for some people, uh, especially for those people in the Middle East, they find it really hard. They are scared that they are being seen or that they are crazy or sick, what is the most easiest step for them to make them feel comfortable to start therapy?

Number one, that achieving wellness involves your brain, that stress center, that fight or flight center. So knowing that What therapy and mental health is, is learning about how your brain functions on stress.

Hmm.

It doesn't have to be an immediate exploration into how your parents messed you up. It doesn't have to be an immediate exploration into a traumatic event. So many times people are really afraid to talk about what's bothering them, what is really, really, really bothering them. So as a therapist, I say, let's not talk about that yet. And that might sound interesting.

Yeah.

Here is why. You don't know me. Why would you tell me your deepest, darkest secrets? Let's get to know each other. Yeah. Teach me about how life is when you're just fine. So I call it emotional toothbrushing. Okay, we brush our teeth every day Before we get cavities. We don't wait until we have a cavity and— or we shouldn't— and then start brushing our teeth.

Yeah.

And that's international. So let's not wait until we can't eat and we can't sleep and we're fighting with our coworkers and we're distant from our loved ones. Let's not wait until we're there Let's, let's transform the idea that mental health can be preventative. You don't have to have a major event to talk about. You don't have to talk about your major event when you start. Number 2, keep in mind that picking a counselor is like picking a cheeseburger. There's McDonald's, there's Burger King, there's Wendy's, there's the corner shop that you like. People like what they like.

Mm-hmm.

Understand that therapists are human beings, and just like the human being that you ride beside in the subway or that you pass as you get on the train, you're not maybe going to like the first therapist that you meet.

Mm-hmm.

Don't give up on the idea that your mental health is still important. Try another cheeseburger. You don't stop eating cheeseburgers just because you had one that you didn't like. If you have a connection with a therapist and it didn't go well, Try again.

Yeah.

But understand that it is important that you, as the client, you pick what feels right for you. So I tell all of my clients this the very first time you meet me. This is what you'll hear. I'm going to ask you at the end of this visit this question: on a scale of 1 to 10, how do I feel as a fit for you? And I want you to picture it like fitting a blouse. Fitting a pair of shoes, fitting a pair of pants. And if I don't fit you, don't come back. I don't want you to do what I call a courtesy reschedule. 10 is going to be, you love me, it feels like a great fit. 1 is going to be, it did not fit at all. Be honest with yourself.

Yeah.

Because I'll have another client after you. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about you. You deserve a good fit.

Yeah, don't be picky. So yeah, wow, love that you do that. Yeah, because you know, you have— and sometimes I remember that I had a really, really, really good therapist and it was so tough because, you know, I had, I had the trauma and I knew it was there, but he was just trying to get into this trauma and I felt like, no, something is going to happen.

Yes.

He was so good, and I, I didn't show up. And but I knew this therapist can, can save me, can help me, but it was so scared for me to go back to this guy. Tell me your point of view about this. Like, you know that this therapist is so good and you need this therapy, but you know you have It feels like, okay, something is about to break.

The first thing, the first thing I'm going to remind anybody is that's your brain. That's your stress center. Okay? Our stress center's job is to flag things as safe or dangerous, safe or dangerous. And it is running in the background like a background application on your computer. That stress center is always assessing, assessing, assessing. So tuning into your body is important. And feeling that heart palpitation or feeling your ears ringing, or feeling— sometimes you feel out of your body or sort of like you're woozy when your anxiety gets really high and your stress center is really sending you a lot of chemicals. It is completely normal to almost feel like you have come out of your body and you're looking at yourself.

Wow.

People get all freaked out because no Nobody has taught them you are having a normal reaction to a stress event. So the first thing is to understand that as a client, you get to pace the conversation with me.

Mm-hmm.

And if I'm pushing towards something, first of all, I try to make sure I'm really not, because I, I say this also, I don't know Danique better than Danique knows herself. So as we get to know each other and we have these conversations, understand my intention is always to help you grow. I also won't dig in a wound you're not ready to help me dig in. We're doing this digging together. Together.

Yeah, exactly.

You and I. It's not me digging at you. So when, when a client is feeling that, I want them to honor that. When they can, and this is hard, in a lot of situations therapy has been made to sound like I am the therapist, I appear above you, you are the client and I am helping you and you are below me. That is garbage.

Yeah.

That is just not true. This is a collaboration. So I want clients, if they're feeling that, To honor that. When they can't, I want them to say, I don't feel ready to talk about that.

Okay, great.

Let's talk about when you feel like Superwoman. Who are you around? What are you doing? What are you wearing? Where are you at? I can learn just as much about you and help you just as much knowing those things to start I've had clients that have waited 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 years to tell me really deep things. Yeah. Now, I've also had clients that have sat right down and said, I had this terrible experience. This is exactly why I'm here and this is what I want you to teach me. We can do that too, but the key to therapy in my opinion is traumatic events make us feel like we have lost control. We're trapped and we don't have the ability to help ourselves out. So the last thing I will do as your therapist is make you feel that. You're in control. You're in charge of what we talk about. You're in charge of when we discuss it. Now, eventually, we need to get down to business.

Mm-hmm.

But let's pace it together. Yeah. So when a, when a therapist tells me they're pushing their client and their client is melting down, I get angry, Danique. Angry.

Yes. You feel like, and that was from a government, like here in Holland, we have these government practices, government therapists, like it's called the GGZ. Um, and, and I saw, you know, during that time I studied social work, and I saw at his, at his, uh, in his office, like, the, the, a book with all those, with all those, uh, disorders. And I know, like, all these disorders. And when I saw that and he was asking me those questions, I thought, oh, you're trying to push me into a disorder. Oh my God. You know, you know this protocol, this, this question. Yeah, I thought, no, this is not gonna happen. So I was blocking myself, protecting myself of, you know, I know what you are doing. Like, you cannot push into me with all your questions or try to figure it out. Well, I see this big bundle of disorders. I don't know if you have it in the United States as well.

We sure do. It's this little book right here.

Yeah, DSM. 5. It is so crazy, it's already 5.

Yes.

It's getting bigger and bigger. I don't know who came up with all those crazy things, but I find it— but anyway, um, and I saw it and I think it's not, not good. And, you know, I'm— I was sitting there in this kind of office vibe. It didn't feel safe, you know, and that was the reason that, okay, this This can be better. This can totally be better. And yeah.

Well, and think about how different that experience would have been if you felt like that therapist was not focusing on what's wrong with you, but was focusing on what has happened to you. We just need to ask our clients a different Question. No, nobody, nobody wants to be labeled. And here's my thought about this, okay? In American insurance, which side note, this is another reason why I love BU. This is not insurance-based. This is clients get to do this their way. There's— we don't have to give it a label. People are not their experiences. Their experiences shaped them.

Mm-hmm.

So I do Post-it note exercises with my clients, and I have some right here. So if I'm going to— and these are actually on my desk. I did not prepare these for this podcast. These are the things that I do every day. So I say, if you're going to label yourself, write, write something and you can label it. I don't know if we can see this one, but it says, if I say yes to this, will I be saying no to myself?

Yeah.

That's a label. Or this one says, you've got this. This is your time. That's a label. But I also encourage people, if you feel like the world has labeled you, we get to take that off and take a look. Do I even want to believe this about myself? And if we don't— Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

We get to take that off. That's part of the empowerment of the mental health journey.

Yeah, that is so true. Yeah. And when I saw, like, when people say, oh yeah, I have this disorder. And it feels, and it feels like when people are saying, oh, I am this, it feels like that their whole human being is changing into this disorder. They said, no, this is not who you are. This is what someone just put on in a book.

Right.

This is not you.

Right.

And then when they are starting with therapy, they become themselves way stronger. And I find that so beautiful of a therapist. that a therapist can really help someone going back into the essence of who they are and not about being this disorder of all those things that are in this book. And I find it so, so powerful of a therapist.

And if, if someone's going to read a book in the mental health industry, my absolute— now, and this is more somebody who really is kind of a nerd and wants to understand more of the brain stuff behind it. Bessel van der Kolk, who I want to say is from Belgium. I'm going to get that wrong. He is not from the United States. I've met him a number of times. He is the most inspirational man you'll ever meet. He wrote this book called The Body Keeps the Score. I call it the trauma Bible.

Yeah.

It is the book that he has taken all of his different experiences and therapies and modalities, and he has put it into this one place for clients or for practitioners to say, listen, here's the thing that we're really working on. And this speaks to what you were talking about with the trauma and Zorro, that when we get stuck, it's because we had this trauma event. We had a normal reaction to an abnormal circumstance. The world labeled us.

Yeah.

Somebody sat around a table, listed symptoms, and called that post-traumatic stress. and gave it an F code so I could send it off to your insurance company to pay for our talk, right? And Bessel is unapologetically frustrated with that piece of the mental health industry. And he says over and over and over again, stop just talking with your clients, help them understand movement. I call it the tripod of wellness. Nature's free medicine. Wellness— how we're eating, how are we sleeping, how are we moving our body. The problem is when we have had really bad experiences, what are the 3 things that get disrupted? Our food— we stop being hungry or we eat too much. Our movement— we get obsessed with exercise and make ourselves sick, or we sit on the couch and eat too many Cheetos. And snacks, our sleep gets disrupted. So the very things that we can do to keep us well are the things that get frozen by bad life experiences. So, so part of it is just helping clients get back to the core things that they have. Everybody has these things.

Mm-hmm.

Everybody has the ability to somehow figure out, Even if you are a quadriplegic in a wheelchair, you have the idea of how to have people help you move, help with good nutrition, help with sleep. It's as complex as it is simple, but it's one of my favorite things about the wellness industry is that we— BU is simplifying this so that if someone wants a mental health therapist, they can talk with Jennifer. If they want an ADHD coach, He's out there. If they want a yoga specialist, she's out there. If they want a beauty consultant, it's, it's the most amazing thing to me because this sort of idea is a barrier and will keep people from seeking services. And we don't need any of that to do this with Be You. And that's really, really beautiful.

Yeah. Wow. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you for being the brainchild of this and drawing so many amazing people together. I can't wait for people to tune into all of these podcasts and to meet all of your team and to understand what drew me to coming to BU. Because I, I have a thriving private practice of my own. I'm doing very well with that. But it is making me follow mental health rules that I'm really Tired of having to follow, and I want clients to be able to do this their way, and that's what this platform is going to allow them.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's so true. It's so yeah.

Yeah, I'm holding the mirror up for you now, Danique. This is because of you.

Oh yeah, so this is still. You know, this, this therapist, Emma, that, you know, that if we are doing this together, you know. And yeah, yeah, thank you.

It's an honor. It's a true honor to be here with you today. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. And I, I'm going to say what we were talking about earlier when we were prepping, you know. I said if this goes down in a puff of smoke, I'm going to be at the bottom of the ladder with you and go Well, this didn't work how we thought it would go. So now what are we going to do next? Because we're going to get it done.

We're going to get it done.

It's happening.

It's happening. Yeah. We're in this roller coaster.

Yeah. The universe, the universe has opened the floodgates.

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Oh, thank you so much. So where can they find you?

Well, the BU team is developing my app.

Yes.

People can also find me on Instagram and Facebook. Right now that's still under Woodbridge Counseling. So if they go to Instagram or they go to Facebook, with, with the great encouragement of Priscilla, they'll now be able to see my wild, curly, unpredictable hair because I've started these videos like she said I should have a long time ago, and that's been super fun. They'll be able to tune into the podcast. They can also go to the BU app. And they can look up not just me, but all all other kinds of providers. It is international. You can get it wherever you are. It is whatever. It is all set up for you to pay straight through there. It is the most seamless, easy process in the whole wide world. So all they need to do is grab their piece of technology.

Oh, Ruth told me about this. You both were. crying in the first meeting. Your heart is, is, is so, you know, your heart touched so many people, not only with your words, but how you express and how much energy you put in. I just, I don't know what happened. So now I understand Roots. Well, and I get choked up too.

I, I have, I've joked that one of One of the challenges of therapy, like, 'cause here I've got these, I get what my husband calls Jenny red nose, which is, and I don't think the camera shows it, but when I start to feel like I'm going to cry, my nose gets red like Rudolph. So it's starting to happen right now. But I said, one of— he always jokes with me because I'll get like that. And then it's almost like when smoke goes to go under a door and then it sucks back. I said, one of the things that I'll notice happens sometimes is I have my inner voice. It's like, you can't cry, you're being the therapist. You can't cry, you're being the therapist.

And then I'll click the little red X and be like, oh my gosh, that was so powerful. Wow. Beautiful. Beautiful. Yes, it's lovely. Oh, okay. Thank you. Sweet for trusting you. Thank you so, so, so much.

Thank you so much. We will connect soon. Everybody out there that's listened, don't just, don't just look for Jennifer. Look for all of the other, all of the other things. And BU Corporate's coming, and that's going to be for businesses. And you're going to be able to, to get people like Danique or myself or others that you haven't met yet in your businesses, on your stages, doing your trainings, packages the way you need. So, so I just hope everybody keeps tuning in because there is so much more coming.

Yes, thank you so much.

All right.

Thank you everyone for listening. I'm so grateful. And see you soon. All right, bye-bye.