A Parent's Guide to Difficult Conversations with Kids | Parenting Uncovered | Dave & Ashley Willis

Foreign. Hello there and welcome back to Parenting Uncovered. As you guys can see on YouTube, it is just me today. And so Dave will not be with us, but I have an awesome friend named Katie Trent who is with us today, and I'm so excited to tell you about her. So Katie J. Trent is a licensed clinical social worker and has over a decade of experience equipping and encouraging families through counseling and ministry. The author of dishing up 36 faith building activities for Homeschooling Families. A popular blogger and a speaker, Katie loves to create resources to simplify life for busy moms. By infusing faith and fun to build strong families, Katie puts the fun back into the fundamentals of family discipleship. And, you guys, I've known Kati. This is the first time I'm, like, able to see her online, but we have corresponded for years back and forth through Instagram and email and things like that. And I've had the privilege of reading her books and endorsing these two. And I'm just so excited for you guys to hear from her today. So welcome, Katie.

Thank you so much. It's so fun to finally see you face to face and going to interact in this way.

Yes, I know. And I. When we were putting together Parenting Uncovered and Dave and I were sitting down and we were like, who do we want to have on this podcast? I immediately thought of you, and I reached out quickly because I was like, we've got to get her in the queue. And I'm so glad that with your busy schedule, you were able to take some time out to be with us, because I know you're a homeschool mom and you're always writing and doing and creating, and so I know that there's a lot going on, but when we were talking before we hit record, I was telling you, I said, katie, you could talk about so many different things. What is on your heart to share with this audience? And you said, discipleship. And so I'd love to kind of start there with why you feel so passionate about teaching families about discipleship.

Yeah, well, I think you only have to look around in the world to see the brokenness, to see how many kids are struggling, how many families are broken, how many parents just don't know where to start, don't know what to do. Our kids are being attacked on all sides. And so as a parent, you can feel really helpless and unsure of, like, where do I go and what do I do? How do I help my kids? And really, the answer is intentional discipleship. As parents, we've almost given away our power. We've said, okay, well, the schools are teaching them this, and, you know, the church is doing this, and there's all these things, and we haven't been as intentional as we need to be to really prepare our kids for the battle that they're facing. Not going to face, but actually facing today. And so my heart is to say, parents, it's our time, especially moms. We've got to rise up and intentionally disciple our kids and equip them for what they're facing.

Mm. Man, you are so right. And I love how you said we're not just preparing them for the future battles, but we're preparing them for the battles they're facing now. And let me tell you, I was just, you know, my kids are in school. I was just going through car line the other day, and I always, you know, ask the same questions, like, how was school today? What happened? And I'm telling you, every day there's something. And we're in a great school system. We're in a school system with a lot of Christian people. But no matter where you are, you can go to private school, you can homeschool, you can go to public school, have all different kinds of dynamics with your kids. I really do believe and totally want to echo what you're saying, that we're all under spiritual attack, you know, and the enemy wants to attack families, and where does he want to get us the most? It's with our children. And I think as parents, we're living in kind of la la land if we don't address that and also not be afraid of it, but equ. Ourselves and our kids. And so, you know, what is like when you. When you talk about this equipping and like, preparing our kids right now, where they are, what they are facing, what is the first thing that comes to mind?

I think the first thing that comes to mind is don't be afraid to have the hard conversations. I love that you're taking that time, especially where it's right fresh. They've come from school, they've experienced something to really say what's going on? Because if we don't know what's going on, we can't teach them what the Bible says. I tell my kids the Bible has a solution, but for every problem we face, and we want to teach our kids that, we want them to know that there are real answers in there. It's not just something we do. It's not just something that they check off their list, but really, it's their manual for life.

Totally. And then, you know, and they see that in us too. You know, as a mom, they're watching you go to the Bible for your answers, but then like spreading that to them. And I think we do need to remind them because I do think our kids are getting mixed messages all the time on where the answers come from. And then a huge narrative that I believe is being pushed in our culture, I know you see this too, is that there really are no answers. And that is so dangerous. It's either like, go to the answers over here and this one person or this thing. But I think more and more it's no, there are no answers. Your truth is your truth and we just all need to respect each other's truth and not ever question. And if you do question, then you're canceled and you're not ever going to be my friend again. And I think that when we can, as parents, say, no, no, no, there are answers and God has the answers. Because God created you, he created me, he created this world. And we can go to His Word and we can trust His Word. There's such a comfort in that and in equipping because then our kids aren't afraid when those hard times do come. And so what are some ways. And I know I want to show your book. I haven't even mentioned it yet, but your newest book, Recipes for a Sweet Child. Creative Bible Based Activities to Help youp Family Thrive. First of all, beautiful. Like, I was going through this again and I'm like, it's just a beautiful book. I have it right where I cook. Like, I was putting together something this morning and I was like, oh, I just love this. But it has so many great ideas. Not only recipes, but ideas to connect and make the Bible real and make all these concepts that we know as, you know, as believers, real for our children and how they can really think about it, talk about it with you. And so I'd love for you to talk maybe about a few of these. I want people to get the book because it's awesome, but maybe share, you know, some of those ways that you can connect and teach them that God does have all the answers.

Yeah. Well, I believe no matter what age your kids are right now, our kids have to have concrete connection to what they're reading in the Bible. And so that's what my books do, is they help you have kind of those answers as a parent. Because I don't know about you, but I've never felt like I was the person who just like had the right scripture and, like, just knew all the answers. I'm not. Even though I put the fun back in the fundamentals, I'm not the fun mom. Like, God had to work with me. Need to do that. Like, that does not come naturally. And so to have a tool where you can say, okay, my kid is struggling with anger right now, and I want to blow my own top. Right. But I want to help them in this moment. I want to take advantage of this teachable moment. I've got to have something. And that's what this is, where you can open it up and say, okay, here's a scripture. Here's a little devotion for mom so that I can recognize, okay, this is. There's something deeper going on. I've got to figure out what's the root of that anger. And then I've got a solution. And so I give a little lesson in there for anger. You know, we talk about it, like, with lava, because no matter what age your kids are, lava is amazing, right? It is. And so we're talking about, like, what does that look like? And what happens when we explode, when that bubbles and bubbles and builds, then we hurt those around us, Right? Because lava hurts those around us, too. And so we're giving them something where they can make that connection and remember it. Because we get inundated with so many things it's hard to remember unless there's a meaningful moment connected with it, unless there's a very practical, tangible thing where they're going to remember it for a long time.

Right?

And so that's what this does. And you know, as a family, you play the floor is lava. Because even if you've got a teenager, there's something fun about hopping from place to place and doing the floor is lava. I love that. You know, we're doing that. And then we have that baking recipe, which is these delicious lava cakes. Don't blow it. Lava cakes. And then a little. I call it a baking buddy. But it's really just a little conversation connection, so that the last thing they're thinking about is that biblical truth that you want to instill. And it has, like, a scripture and kind of how it connects to the recipe. Recipe. But so it's just lots of different ways. And a discussion guide as well, because like we said, you've got to have the conversations and you've got to ask the questions, and you've got to do that because our discipleship is only as effective as our relationship. So the stronger our relationship is with our kids, the more effective our Discipleship is. Everything we teach them is worth nothing if we don't have a strong relationship. But if we can build that relationship, then they're going to listen and they're going to respond. And so that's really what the whole book looks like, is all those different, common childhood struggles, things that we all face, all of our kids are going to experience, broken down into emotional, behavioral, and relational struggles.

And you see that and you make it so simple. It's not complicated. Any of us can do it. And, you know, just back to what you were saying about how relationship is at the heart of all of this. I remember a quote from James Dobson years ago. He said, rules without relationship leads to rebellion. And, you know, and I really. Right now we have, you know, two of our kids are teenagers, and. And I really. I remember in those early teenage years when they're starting to flex their opinion muscles and they're, you know, they're wanting that autonomy that kept on going through my mind, because it's like they're not going to listen if they don't really know that we truly care, you know? And I think that what you do in this book is you give us those opportunities to create those moments, you know, because sometimes those moments do happen naturally, but a lot of times they don't, and we miss it, and we feel like, man, I should have done this. But this gives people some really good opportunities to create these special moments where they remember it, you know, because you want. You want them to really hold on to it. And I love how, you know, you see the teacher and you coming out with your. When you're like, they're gonna hold on to that image of lava and, like, equating it to God's truth and how. How anger works and all those things. So I just. I just love that so much. And I know for me, it gives me. It gives me a lot of. I love having tools as a mom so that I can make something fun because I like you. You're saying that fun doesn't always come naturally because maybe we're trying to keep that structure. That's me, too. Like, Dave is way more fun than me. I always tell him, like, between the two of us, is like a balanced parent, because he's just, like, always fun, just naturally, you know? And I tend to be more of the hardlined person, you know, but it's good when we can have those moments where we are showing them the boundaries because they have to have those. But we also are having that sweet, fun moment with them. And I Think it's good for our kids to see that side of us as well, you know, and to engage with them. So what do you think, like in doing these kind of moments with your kids, what, what do you feel like God is teaching you or maybe something that has surprised you or been. Been just something you've learned through, through these kind of moments with your own children?

I think one of the things I've learned is just the depths within them. There's so much richness and what they both know and want to know and such a hunger inside them that we don't really realize is there until we start to really nurture that and have those conversations. Some of my favorite moments of my whole life have been like sitting down at way too late at bedtime with my daughter and just talking about things and her, you know, asking me questions and us going through and processing what she's learned or thought about. And that it just amazes me because you see God in them in such a beautiful way when you take the time to get to know them. And I think uncovering the beauty and the treasure that's within your children and figuring out like, who did God create you to be and how can I, as your parent, help nurture you and empower you and equip you so that you can fulfill all that he's created you to do?

Yes. That's so good. And you're right because we kind of rob ourselves as parents of those moments when we don't take the time to really look in our kids eyes and let them have that moment to speak. And that's kind of what I hear you saying, because man, I feel like. And maybe you could speak to this too. A lot of times when I'm in the moment of trying to have like a teachable moment with my kids, they teach me more like, and it's usually when I do give them that opportunity because something I struggled with, especially in the early years of raising kids was just kind of that whole like, this is what I told you to do and that's that, you know what I'm saying? And I've learned through the years, like, you know, there is like, yes, there's rules and there's, there's boundaries. There's all these things we teach our kids, there's expectations, but we also, we need to hear how they're processing it. And I feel like I did not do a good job of that when they were really little. But I'm trying to, you know, probably with, I did a better job with our younger ones than I did with our older ones. And I hate how that happens. But, you know, we're not. We're never really the complete same parent with each child. And so. But that's something I kind of hear you saying, and I see in your books, too, is like taking the time to explain. I actually was listening to Caroline, Dr. Caroline Leaf. I don't know if you follow her on Instagram. She's amazing, like, with. With just her neuroscience and the counseling side of things. And she was talking about that, like, in her own parenting journey, just realizing what a difference it made. When we can, we really get to help our child process it, but also see how they're processing it. So then we can really speak into that maybe if it's going wrong, you know, to have those moments where we can correct something that maybe is misunderstood, or our kids can help us see our own blind spots, which isn't comfortable as a parent, but we need that. Right. You know, and I don't know if you've had moments like that.

Absolutely. Well, and I think it speaks to. It's the difference between behavior modification and life transformation. Right. Because if we're just trying to correct their behavior. Behavior, then they're going to keep having it because we haven't addressed the heart symptom. There's something going on within them that we don't fully understand that is triggering these behaviors. So when we can stop and really get to the bottom of it, that's where we can effectively help them and disciple them. Because we may all present anger, but we're not presenting it for the same reasons in the same ways. And we're not dealing with the same things on the inside. And so as we give our kids that time to talk and communicate, we do it. And you're right, as parents, like, we fall short every single. I tell people, like, I teach this. I teach other parents. I know in my head the right things and the skills, but I still fail every day. You can ask my kids. I fail every day. And that process, though, of letting our kids know that they're never going to achieve perfection, they're never going to, like, arrive at the perfect person. That frees them so much from that idea that they've got to be good enough or they've got to earn something to just say no. We're all on this journey with God and we're growing more like Jesus every single day. And it is a beautiful process when we embrace that. And that's so important for our kids to see. And that's why we do a lot of these things as a family because we don't want to communicate to our kids that there's something wrong with them. Right. Like, there's something wrong with you, and so we've got to fix you. Instead. It's as a family, we really want to grow in managing our anger. We want to grow in all of these traits and this wisdom of God together.

Right? I love how you said that. One of the things that my third son, Chandler, who's a sixth grader, so he's 11 years old and he's a very, like, old soul that. You know what I mean by that? Like, he's just, he's pretty mature in a lot of ways, but also, he's still a sixth grade boy, but sometimes he wants to, like, like, be a parent to our younger one. And I have to. I'm like, you're not his dad, you're his brother. And you don't want to be like, that's not your responsibility. But one thing he does is I tend to say, like, if I am making a statement about, like, something needs to change, I'll say, guys, we need to do xyz, whatever it is, and we need to stop doing xyz. Well, you know, and I'll go into the descriptor and Chandler will look at me and he'll go, mom, why are you saying, guys, I didn't do this one thing. You're saying, guys, it was Chad or it was whoever, and I'm like, buddy, it's because even though, like, at this moment you didn't do whatever it is I'm trying to correct here, you have before, and we've all made mistakes before and we're trying to, like, cultivate us, you know, a reminder for you maybe, but a correction for your brother. But we're learning together. And I love that I need to do a better job of that. But I love how you're saying, like, as a family, we're all going to try to improve on these things because, you know, and granted, I know sometimes it is just one. One of the kids, it's like, had an issue with something, but I think we can all use those refreshers and also as a family supporting each other in helping to make those positive changes. You know, I want to ask something real quick because I know people listening to this. There's going to be the moms and dads out there that are like, I want to disciple my kids, but, man, I don't have enough time. Like, I. And I hear that from Parents, I'm sure you do, too. They're like, you know, I need to leave that to the church. I need to leave that to these mentors over here. And it's good to have church and mentors and activities. Like, absolutely. But what would you say? Because, I mean, I get it. We're all busy. You're busy, I'm busy. Like, everybody listening has stuff. And I think that that is maybe a lie from the enemy that he wants us to believe that we can't do this. What would you say to that person?

Well, there's a few different things. First off, I'd say we all have the exact same amount of time. It's. We decide how we're going to steward that time. And so your kids are such a precious gift from God. Like, you're going to stand before Jesus one day and answer for how you ste stewarded those relationships. And that discipleship, you know, that is the most important mandate you have if you're a parent. And so first off, like, that perspective of you've got to choose how you're going to spend your time, and maybe you need to reevaluate what you're spending your time on. The second is it's so much easier than you think. And one of the ways to make it easy is to start looking at, like, the rhythms and routines that you currently have. Like, do you brush your teeth every day? If you brush your teeth every day, put a scripture on or read a devotion or listen to the audio Bible or do something with that. If you eat dinner every day as a family or maybe certain days of the week, take time to read a devotion then, or have a conversation or read a scripture or whatever. If you're driving in the car line, like, there's a moment, you know, every day that you can take advantage of. And so if you start the discipleship disciplines in those normal rhythms and routines, it makes it a lot easier to build that habit. And then it grows from there. I find that people struggle when they're like, okay, now I'm going to carve out this 30 minutes of time early in the morning that I didn't used to do. You're going to fail. Like, let me just tell you, you're going to fail. But if you start with your natural rhythms and routines, you can really build a beautiful discipleship time. And then it's just that being intentional, it's listening and saying, oh, okay, my kids brought something up. I'm not going to brush by this, even though I'm in a hurry to Hear we're going to stop and have a conversation or oh, I heard something. I'm going to go grab the book and I'm going to open to the anxiety chapter and we're to tackle that tonight. So it's just learning to listen and really carve out that intentional time. It doesn't take hours and hours a day. A few minutes in those moments will change everything.

I love that, just bringing it into what you're already doing. You know, I, I know there's a book called Atomic Habits. Wildly successful. They. A lot of what you're describing, they call it like habit stacking where you're kind of, you're stacking it in to what you're already doing. Is that kind of similar to what you're describing? Yeah, absolutely, because it is. I think that we do and I've been guilty of this over the years. Like we tend to make it so complicated. Like I need an hour and everyone has to, I have to have their undivided attention. I remember one year I got all the books, age appropriate devotionals and I was like, okay, we're gonna totally do a different routine with school this year and we're gonna have this amount of time and everyone has to sit like at attention and do this for this amount of time. And it ended up for some of them it worked but for others it just, they're not morning people and it just wasn't cond. And it really frustrated me. Like I was like, oh my gosh, I was almost like frustrated with God about it. Like God, I felt led by you to do this. I'm trying to disciple my kids and it's not working. But then I remember Dave and I really talking about it and praying about it and I'm like, listen, we need to. It's what you're talking about. We need to work this in to where it would naturally fit within each of these individual boys routines. And it's been really good over the years. It's looked different, different times. We did that whole audio devotional thing. Like you're talking about putting on a little quick audio devotional on the way to school. You know, for our older boys, they're much more night people. And I know our 16 year old, he likes to journal. You know, not everybody likes to journal, but he journals, he has a gratitude journal and it really has been good for him and it works for him. I know our son Cooper who just headed off to college. He, you know, always likes to have like books that are more like thought provoking, like a C.S. lewis type thing, you know, those type of things. I think we have to find, you know, what. What works within their personalities and also the time and the day, but just I think modeling, which I know that, like, you talk a lot about that and just showing the kids the importance of having that time and as they get older, how they. They are managing their time. You know, I mean, we've had a lot of conversations with our college student about that because he's on his own now. I'm not there to, you know, say, hey, have you read your Bible today? Or, you know, what are you listening to these days? Or whatever. And I mean, yes, I can text him, but it's different when your mother is walking up to you and saying it, or your dad. And so I think it's so good to start wherever you are and try to get these really. They're spiritual disciplines, in essence. A lot of these are spiritual disciplines kind of in play as a family. And I think the other, you know, with the time thing, and you answered that so well. I think the other thing people will say hearing this is like, yes, this sounds so good. I wish I could have done that. I wish I had done that. But is it too late for me? Because my kids are now 12 or 15 or whatever. What would you say?

Yeah, well, I'd say God is putting that on your heart right now for a reason. Right? You're listening to this like, that's not by accident. And so if you're feeling that stirring, it doesn't matter even if your kid has left the house, like, it's never too late, because God, in a moment, changes everything. In a moment, he changed my life. I'm sure he did the same for you. And so it just takes that moment. And sometimes if, you know, your kids are older, whether that's like, teens or older, and even if they're younger, sometimes we have to go to them. We have to say, you know what? I just want to repent. I want to say, I'm so sorry that I was not more intentional and that this. I feel like I have failed you, and I want to change that. Can we grow in this together and have a conversation and say, how can I support you? What do you need from me? How confident are you feeling in your faith? Walk and start that conversation and then grow together. And if they're older, maybe they want to do a Bible study with you, or maybe they want to. You can get them some resources that they can do on their own. But it's never too late. And even if you're saying, like, I'm at a place where I'm butting heads so much with my kids and like, we're all, ah, like, that's okay, again, you humbly go and you say, you know what? I have made so many mistakes and I'm so sorry and I want to make this right. I love you so much. I value this relationship. Will you give me a chance to get to know you? Will you give me a chance to help you better? And kids are desperate for our love and affection. God has designed the family and relationships in that way. And so it's never too late. And even if, you know, we see a lot of people who had prodigals, they call it, right, that have gone away from the Lord. And God does amazing things. So you never stop praying, you never stop reaching out, you never stop loving them, you stop nagging, right? Like, if there's, if they're that far away, like, just love them where they're at and trust God loves them even more than you do and will bring them back and just move forward from there. So it's never too late. And the book is designed for really, like, toddlers through teens. And you'll see in there, there's a lot of them that will say, like, if your kids are younger, do this, and if they're older, you know, you can do this. So if you have that age range, like, Ashley, your age range there, right, like, you'll do a little bit deeper with your older ones and you'll do a little bit more simply with your younger ones, but you can do them as a family or you could do it, like, if one kid is just needing someone on one time, you can do it that way as well. But it's never too late with God. As long as there's breath in their lungs, yes, there's breath in your lungs. It is never too late for a suddenly moment.

You're so right. And I love that you said that because I know that there are parents listening or they feel like that they love, dearly love their kids but feel like blew it. And you guys, like, like Katie said, we all, we all mess up all the time, like we're flawed human beings. But I think having the humility to go and say I'm sorry, that that's huge in keeping that relationship stronger, making it stronger, giving that olive ranch. I love that. You know, I opened up to the part of the book that talks about gossip and you were talking about the age range, like, we need to hear about gossip from as Young as possible to. I mean, now, you know, even as adults, I mean, we all need to hear about it. And you talk about, the questions are so good. And like you said, like in the conversation connection, it says like, what is gossip? And here you define it. It says talking about other people. So even a young child can understand that. And then you say, like, can you think of a time when gossip hurt you or someone else? What happened? Why is gossip wrong? What can you do if someone tries to share gossip with you? And I love that because I think that at any age, I mean, my goodness, how much can we learn about that? And then you have the family fun where you play old fashioned game of telephone, which, I mean, the perfect demonstration of how gossip can happen. And also really fun. Like I have vivid memories of being a middle schooler at a sleepover playing the telephone game. It's just so fun. So you're just so creative and I love this so much. And before we give you the last word, as the listeners know, we like to have a little fun here on Parenting Uncovered. And Dave is not here to deliver his dad joke. But he was like, oh, no, I won't leave them hanging. I will let you pick one of three dad jokes. So he sent me some to share with the group. Let me find it here. And here we go, guys. And you all know who knows?

Okay.

All right. It says the police came to my house and asked where I was between three and five. I told them preschool. You guys, come on. Do you get it? Preschool between three and five. Okay, that's a good job.

I totally get it.

Okay. I totally get it.

I'm glad you didn't leave me hanging. And I was feeling like here I got left out without a dad joke. So thank you, Dave. I know it's a dad joke still.

I'll tell them you're so grateful. All right, now I'm going to share a fascinating fact which I was telling.

Katie out of this.

Like I, I share something. It could be through history, through science, just something funny about parenting through the years. And so let me find that fascinating fact because I'm really excited about today's. It's kind of several little facts that I found and I just find them fascinating and I think you guys will too. So let me get this up here. And this one Today is from GoodHousekeeping.com and it's entitled the weirdest parenting advice We've tried the past 100 years. And there's so many of these. But I'm going to share a couple of Them today. It said, all right, this is called in the 1910s. Watch your thoughts. Moms to be of the 1910s, were told that in order to have a beautiful baby, like, like a cute little baby, they must refrain from thinking of ugly things. So, like, they would say, don't think of ugly things when you're pregnant, which I think is so silly. And then, let's see here, in the 1910s as well, they gave very special baths. It says, new babies deserve special care. Right in back in the early 1900s there, the baby's first bath was often with the help of lard. They would put lard in the bath. And I'm not really sure if they thought, like, like maybe it would make the skin softer. Like, I don't. I don't know what the, what the thought was there. All right, now here's the last one I'm going to share. It says, in the 1910s, again, we're still in the 1910s. Breastfeeding mothers were given a stern warning in 1916. It said, don't feed your baby while you are angry or else you'll have a colicky baby. So they looked at colic as being due to an angry breastfeeding mom. So there you go. Interesting thoughts, right? Interesting thoughts. I love looking at this stuff because it shows me, like, how far we've come, how parenting advice changes throughout the years.

It's.

It's interesting. All right, Katie, let's have the last word from you. Where can people get in touch with you and get your books?

Yeah. So you can find me@katiej.trent.com and I've got both the books there. I've got my Family Faith Building Academy, which is a digital discipleship course for Christian parents. If you're saying I don't know how to make it fun and tangible and practical, we've got you covered. All of it's there and I'd love to connect with you. You can email me anytime. You'll find my email there as well. I'm happy to support you however I can.

Well, you are amazing. And guys, go get recipes for a sweet child. This book is beautiful and practical. So fun, too. I mean, so many great recipes, but fun activities and wisdom, and it really is a great way to connect with your kids and teach them about God. So, Katie, thank you so much for all the amazing work you're doing. God bless you. This will not be the last time you're on this podcast. I hope to have you on in the future sometime.

Thank you so much. I can't wait. We'll see it with Dave, too. It'll be fun.

On that's right. With Dave, too. And, guys, thank you all so much for joining us, for listening, for watching. We'll have Dave on next time, but I hope you all have a blessed day.