Are You Really OK? | Interview with Debra Fileta | The Naked Marriage Podcast|Dave and Ashley Willis

Welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And wherever you are listening or watching today, if you're watching this on YouTube, we're glad that you stopped by. We think that today's conversation with our great friend Deborah Faleta is going to make a huge impact in your life. But before we set up the interview and tell you what today's all about, I want to share a recent review of the podcast. When you guys leave reviews on itunes or wherever you leave reviews, it really, really not only encourages us, but it helps other people discover the message of this podcast. I want to share one that really touched our heart recently from Court Hask. And it's five stars and it said saved, Saved in all caps. Saved my marriage. Two exclamation points. She says, this podcast literally saved my marriage. My husband and I were in the lowest of lows starting around July 2019. This low of blows lasted was a tiptoe away from divorce. My foot was halfway in the doorway, ready to walk out. God knew that that is not wanted for me. So I saw this podcast being advertised on Facebook in March 2020, and it literally saved my marriage. From that point on. My husband was desperate to fix our marriage already, so he was ready to listen. This podcast gave him the mindset to be open to going to church, which he had never agreed to before. And I cannot say enough good things about this. We're thriving a year later and we are so much stronger than we've ever been in our relationship. We reference this podcast when conflict comes up and it saves the day every time. Thank you for that. I mean, that's just so encourag Honored to know that in some small way, God has used this platform to really make a real intangible difference in your marriage. And thank you for sharing it with us.

Absolutely. Well, you guys are in for a treat today. We have one of our previous guests and we just love having her on here.

She's so good.

And that is Deborah Fileta. Let me tell you a little bit about her. I know most of you know exactly, but I'm gonna just repeat this for those who don't. Deborah Fileta is a licensed professional counselor and the author of True Love Dates, Choosing Marriage and Love in Every Season. A passionate speaker, she challeng people to have a psychologically and spiritually healthy approach to relationships. Deborah and her husband John have been happily married for more than a decade and have four beautiful children where they live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, which is such a beautiful area if you've never been there before. And you can find out more about Deborah and all her resources. She has an awesome podcast, too. You can go to truelovedates.com and today we're going to talk about her brand new book, Are you Really okay? Getting Real about who you are, how you're doing, and why it matters. And you guys, this conversation, it really goes deep into mental and emotional health and spiritual health. And if you want to find more information about this book, and I know you're going to want to do that, especially after hearing this conversation, you can get the book at ryou. Really? Okay. And that's just the letters O and K. So are you reallyokay.com? well, let's dive in today's conversation. Well, we are so excited to have Deborah Fileta here. Deborah, welcome back to the podcast. She is one of our favorites. So we have to have her back multiple times, right, sweetie?

That's right. It's just so good to see you.

Yes, it is so good to see you guys.

Yes. And those of you who are watching YouTube, you can see her too. But those of you who are listening, you can hear her lovely voice. And we're so excited to be together again.

Yeah. And some people don't know that this actually airs on YouTube. You know, a ton of people listen on itunes, Spotify, all that's great. We love that you listen. But you can also go to YouTube and you can watch this.

You can watch it.

That's great. And you can see what's happening. And so check it out over there as well.

That's right. Well, we're excited to talk about Deborah's newest book. You know, she's a very prolific writer. All of her books are awesome. We love them. But her latest book is called Are youe Really okay? Getting Real about who youo Are, how youw're Doing and why It Matters. And so we're gonna be talking about that today. As you guys know. You know, we've been talking a lot about mental health in our series Naked and Healthy. And so get kind of diving deep into this with Deborah, a professional who knows all about this. I'm so excited about it. And so we're gonna really talk about some important issues today.

Yes, we are. And so first question, we're just gonna dive straight in. Deborah, what prompted you to write Are youe Really okay? And what are you, you know, what are you seeing, like right now in your work as a professional? I mean, it is a weird time like, people have gone through this pandemic. They've gone through the aftermath of just all of the kind of the social unrest and financial pressure, and there's just. There's never been a more tense time, I don't think, on Planet Earth, at least, that I've been alive. And what are you seeing in the work that you're doing, especially as it relates to that question in the book that you wrote? Are you really okay?

Well, what's interesting about it is I actually wrote this book, started writing it in 2019. So before pandemic, before COVID I just felt like God had really pressed this topic on my heart. And specifically after I had gone through a difficult season. As a licensed counselor, we're not immune to mental health struggles, just like a doctor isn't immune to getting sick or a pastor isn't immune to spiritual struggles. For me, it was coming out of a really hard season. And also recognizing that many times in the church, we tend to treat mental and emotional health with spiritual solutions. You know, we tackle them with spiritual things rather than seeing them for what they are, you know, mental and emotional issues, and kind of getting to the root of them in the right way. So it was kind of a series of different things that led up to God putting this message on my heart. It's always been a message that's close to my heart, but especially having gone through my own mental health struggles with depression and anxiety and panic attacks for the first time. You know, it's one thing to be a therapist and help people through it. It's a completely different journey when you're walking through it yourself. So I think it's just God's timing that 2020 happened right after. And here we are in 2021, which I'm believing to be the year of healing.

Oh, I am right there with you. You know, it's so interesting how God orchestrated so many different resources to come out right in the midst of when people needed them the most. And so I totally believe you with that. Like, it's. It's just uncanny how many resources there are that have to do with mental health, specifically because so many of us are reeling from everything, you know, and so, yeah, I love it. And I wanna ask you this. So, like, what has been your own experience with the church and its attitude towards mental health? You kind of touched on that and said, you know, and I get it. Dave's been a pastor for many years. I get what you're saying, how sometimes the church feels inadequate when it comes to mental health issues. And they don't really know exactly what to say, so they'll just quote verses which are powerful. And we need Jesus absolutely, in our mental health battle. But like we say here on our podcast, and I know you certainly do on yours, it's a multifaceted approach, and we need, you know, we need to look at all these different resources. And like you said, I mean, you gotta treat a mental health issue with things that have to do with mental health, and same thing with emotional health. So in your experience, you know, what has that been like, especially when you went through your own battle?

Well, unfortunately, my experience reflects a lot of what people go through, which is almost an invalidation of your struggle. I remember having a conversation with a pastor probably just weeks after being on the tail end of a really deep postpartum depression many years ago, and he didn't know that I had gone through it. So we just were sitting in a group having a conversation, and somehow the topic of depression came up. And he said, true believers don't suffer from depression. If the Holy Spirit is living inside of you, you shouldn't struggle with depression. And he had no clue what I had just come out of. I was fired up about it enough just being a licensed counselor, but then having gone through it myself, it felt like a questioning of my faith, like a questioning of my strength, like a questioning of. Of my journey with Jesus, you know, questioning of the Holy Spirit at work in me. But what's interesting is we don't treat other illnesses in such a way. You know, when somebody gets cancer, we rally around them. We raise GoFundMe campaigns, we start Facebook prayer groups. When somebody is diagnosed with a physical illness of, you know, that's attacking their body, we're right there for them. We're helping them through it. We're bringing them meals.

Yeah.

But then with mental illness, we begin to question it. Like, are you really a believer? You know, are you really praying enough? Is there sin in your life? Is there something that we need to do? We need to anoint you with oil. And, I mean, it's like a completely different perspective, rather than just seeing it as a malfunction of the brain, which is just another part of the body, you know? And I'm not saying there's no other components. When you get diagnosed with cancer or diabetes, for example, you take medication, but there's also lifestyle changes. You see the doctor, but there's also lifestyle changes. But when it comes to anxiety and depression, we want to push the spiritual change or even some of the lifestyle changes without Addressing some of the deeper issues that really need to be addressed.

Right.

Oh, I think that's so true.

Yeah. And what that causes to do, especially within the church, and I've seen this is it makes people feel like this isn't a safe place for me to share what I'm actually going through. And I'm just gonna have to pretend that I've got it all together. And, you know, there was a meme I found and shared, you know, on Facebook a while back that they got shared more than anything I've shared in a long time. And it was. It was just a. All it said was, people don't fake being depressed. They fake being okay and remember that and be kind. And I think that resonated with people, especially within the church, because so many of us have felt this pressure to fake. Like, no, no, I don't deal with that. I don't struggle with that. Because like you said, you know, there's this mindset that some pastors have preached not knowing any better that, well, if you have that it's because you're sinning or you don't have enough faith or whatever it might be. But I think that that tide is finally turning and people are realizing that. Yeah, of course, you know, of course scripture can bring healing and hope and encouragement. But if there's a real mental health or real physical health issue that you're facing, you need also those other physical health and mental health solutions and professionals to guide you through it. And I'm so glad that you can talk about these things, not only from years of training and education and experience with counseling others, but also through your own experiences and you write about them and you share about them in such profound ways. Share a little bit about. One of the stories that I think could really resonate with, with our listeners is, you know, you talk so openly about how your own near death experience with a miscarriage really had a deep impact, as of course it would on your emotional life, your mental health, your physical health. Just walk us through that journey. Cause I do think that there are so many lessons we could pull from it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the theme here is really trauma. And I start with that because I don't want somebody to tune out who's never had a miscarriage or maybe there's a college student listening or a father, and it's like, well, I've never been through that. No, the theme is trauma, because trauma is what happens and what later on impacts our body. So for me, it was the trauma of going through an unexpected miscarriage. I remember my husband was on his way to a doctor's appointment with the kids, and I had a routine appointment, routine medical appointment to go check on the baby. They had an inkling that something might not be the way that it should be. Maybe something was wrong, but otherwise it wasn't an emergency situation. I went to the appointment by myself. While I was there, not only did I lose the baby, but I started hemorrhaging in the middle of the clinic. Unexpected, of course, and losing so much blood, I was within minutes of dying. According to the medical care workers. They rushed me into an emergency surgery. I was all by myself. I actually, I wasn't all by myself because I remember feeling just the peace of Christ. You know, Even though everything was chaotic, I was literally being. I mean, they were literally sprinting with me in a wheelchair to get me to that er. And it was. It was really. You know, when you go through trauma, you're kind of in survival mode. I remember feeling a peace. I look back and I'm like, it was partly for sure the peace of God, but a little bit of. I had no clue what was going on. I didn't realize how close I was to death. You go into survival mode, kind of like a soldier when they go off to war and they're seeing all these horrible things happen before their eyes. Your body needs to fight, it needs to survive. That's what it does. It goes into full high capacity and you just plow through. About two years later, after that trauma, I started experiencing these weird symptoms. I remember right before I started hemorrhaging, I felt a little lightheaded because I was losing so much blood. Fast forward two years, whenever I started feeling lightheaded again, my whole body would go into this panic mode. Because your body remembers the trauma. And my amygdala, the part of the brain responsible for emotional memory, was like, oh, you're in danger. I remember this happened before. This is all happening subconsciously. I'm not aware of it. And the same thing happens with a soldier. When they come back home and the situation is safe, there's no longer trauma. Many times that's when the effects of trauma begin to make their way to the surface. And that's exactly what happened for me.

Wow, I'm so glad you're okay. That's so scary. I can't even imagine walking through that. And, you know, I love how you equate this. Like, you know, like she said, even if you've not had a miscarriage and you're not A woman, you know, and, like, miscarriage wouldn't even be possible because you're a man. I think everyone can relate to trauma, to some kind of trauma to varying degrees. And, you know, I love how she's brought up the physiological sides of this and just the brain and how. How different things are triggered. And so when you started having those, were these anxiety attacks that you're describing, did it kind of throw you into an anxiety attack?

100%. But at the time, I didn't recognize it was an anxiety attack. Even though I knew what an anxiety attack was. The first time it happened, my initial thought was, something's happening in my body. I must be sick. I must be going through another. This could be another emergency situation. It's like, the first time I didn't realize it was an emergency situation. So this time I want to take it serious seriously. When really I was probably just dehydrated or I had a headache coming on, you know, but my body goes into panic mode. All of a sudden, your heart rate skyrockets. You start sweating. You know, you're not. You feel like you can't breathe, which makes you truly feel like you're going to die. And that's kind of the epitome of a panic attack, is a lot of people say, I feel like I was going crazy. I feel like I was going to die. You literally feel like, this is it. You know, I got to go say goodbye, because I'm gone. Yeah. But really, it's your body in panic mode, and you have to begin differentiating the symptoms of anxiety from the symptoms of real danger. Because what's happening with a panic attack is what we say is, it's a false alarm. I'm so thankful that God gave us this alarm response system. But for people who've been through trauma, specifically, a lot of times that alarm, false alarms, it goes off inappropriately because, you know, because of the past trauma, because of your past experiences. And so that's what was happening with me. I was going through all these false alarms where my body would just react when I was really safe, you know, I was fine. There was nothing going on. So it was a process for me of unpacking, first and foremost, okay, this is anxiety. I recognize this. I've seen it before. I've worked with it. This is definitely anxiety. And also having people help me was one of the first people. He's a medical doctor, so he was able to quickly be like, deb, this is definitely anxiety. And then for me to recognize what is this rooted in where Is it coming from why now, when there's absolutely nothing stressful going on in life, but back up a couple years and there was this trauma that hadn't really been worked through or dealt with in the way that it needed to be dealt with?

Yeah, I love that. Did you yourself, if you'd like to share that, great. If not, no big deal. But did you yourself seek out a counselor? Was that how you kind of worked through that, even though you yourself are a counselor?

You know, it's funny. I made a lot. I was able to make a lot of connections on my own. I was able to because of my training. I was able to say, okay, listen, my body is overcompensating for that past trauma. Like, I know what's happening. But at the same time, I wanted support. I'm such an advocate of professional counseling, and it would almost be hypocritical of me to be such an advocate and not try it myself. I actually called up my former supervisor. He's a brilliant psychologist that I worked with when I was in graduate school and my first job and just had a great impact on my life. And I was like, hey, here's what's happening, and I understand what's happening, but I just need you to help me through this. You know, I need you to walk me through this. And he did. And, you know, it was just amazing to have that support. But I also started medication for a season because my body was going crazy. You know, the cortisol levels and my serotonin and dopamine levels. There was just so much going on, my hormones, and I just needed to get back in check so that I could begin to heal.

We've always believed that one of the best ways to create more health in your marriage, in your life, in every part of your life, is really to connect with a healthy counselor over the years, to work through stress issues, anxiety issues, to just kind of help navigate life's different problems. And we're so excited to have a counseling partner now that's able to do this for you through the Internet. You don't have to go sit in an office. You can from your phone, from your computer, sit down with a licensed professional Christian counselor who is custom fit for you and for what you're facing and what you're experiencing.

That's right. And as listeners of this podcast, Faithful Counseling is giving you 10% off your very first month. That's 10% off your first month. So you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing this. Christian counseling is a game Changer. So go today to getfaithful.com nakedmarriage. I'm so glad. And listeners hear us loud and clear. Please, please, please do not count your doctor out. For someone who can help you with your mental illness, you know, whatever you're going through. Because medication, I think as Christians, for some reason, it's like the little secret or it's something we shy away from and, you know, we're like, ashamed that we would have to take it. And I myself, I had to get on medication for a little bit while I was dealing with anxiety and depression shortly after we had our first son. And I would absolutely, if I started having those symptoms again, I would absolutely go back to it, you know, and I have many friends where they need that on a daily basis. And whether you're taking it in the short term or the long term, it's something like any medication you have to take. You know, Dave has a thyroid disorder. He has to take a Synthroid to keep his thyroid working. And nobody would shame him for that. And so I don't know why it is, especially even in churches. And I hate to say this because I absolutely love the big C church. Like, I love it. But for some reason, we need to take that stigma off there because it really, you know, don't you find, Deborah, that it ends up hurting people in the end. Cause they end up waiting so long and those serotonin levels are so low. Like, I know for me personally, my therapist at the time was like, yes, you need to get on. For me, it was Zoloft at the time, which is an antidepressant. She's like, I recommend this because your brain isn't able to even function health, like, you know, in a healthy place right now. So the therapy's not gonna work as well if your levels are all mixed up. And that's what really helped me to. To do that. Cause I had that. Shame on me. I felt ashamed that I'd have to get on an antidepressant. And I wish I could go way back and tell, you know, the 15 years ago, Ashley to just not think that way, because that's ridiculous.

Yeah. And you're right. So much time is wasted that you could be working on healing because you can't. It's like, imagine somebody who's drowning. You're not going to jump in the water and be like, okay, let's learn how to have some better breathing strategies. And let me see those strokes. Let's see some of your. That's just not what we would do when someone's drowning. And with anxiety attacks and clinical depression, it can truly feel like you're drowning. Life can look so daunting and just overwhelming. The smallest things can be so overwhelming when you're struggling. But to be like, okay, this is the time to train. You can't even train you're drowning. So let's get you on dry ground first, and then we'll do all the other things you need to do. Then we'll teach you all the things you need to learn and all the skills, all the breathing, all of that we can get to once we recalibrate your body and get you back on track. So it's funny, I just had a counseling session recently with a woman who clearly 100% is going through menopausal clinical depression. So when you go through menopause, your hormones go crazy, and that can have a huge impact on your emotional mental health. Yeah. And I suggested that she consider talking to her physician about starting an antidepressant. Yeah, you would think I told her to go start worshiping Satan. The way that she responded, I mean, it was like, me, a Christian woman, like, how dare you? You know? And I couldn't believe that we still have that type of reaction in 2021. But that's what we're dealing with because of the way that we've had these conversations in the past. And that's why I'm so excited to be having these conversations with you, because I feel like this is how we begin to change the narrative.

You've got so many great quotes in your book that I think could help people like that woman and countless others who've believe certain stigmas, maybe from the church that on others. I can't have that issue because of whatever. But I love this quote. It says, mental illness doesn't reflect a character issue, it reflects a chemistry issue. And it's so good. It just boils it down to something that simple. It's like just if you're sick, you would take whatever medicine the doctor gave you for your body, so why not also for your mind? And in chapter eight, you break down the difference between mental health and spiritual health. And so for the sake of those, many of us, you know, from the church or even outside the church, that maybe struggle with the difference between those two things, just break it down for us. I think this could be so helpful and so liberating.

Yeah, well, I think we have to really be cautious not to link the two things together. You know, first and foremost, mental illness and even emotional struggles, they're not a reflection of your faith, they're not a reflection of your strength. Not only that, but I really believe that people who struggle are often some of the strongest people. Because it's like if I ask you to go on a hike and then I ask you to go on that same hike with a 50 pound pack on your back, you're going to struggle, but you're stronger than the person who doesn't have that pack. And I feel like those of us who struggle with emotional and mental struggles in different seasons, we're the strong ones. We're carrying that pack and still taking the next step. Not only that, but some of the most intimate times I've had with Jesus have been in the darkness of depression. You know, like I remember one night struggling. My body was just totally off and just some severe struggle. And not to throw my husband under the bus here, but he was so supportive, he wanted to be there for me. But the one night he just drifted off to sleep. We were in bed, we were snuggling, I was having a really hard night and he just fell asleep. You know, which makes perfect sense when you're exhausted and it's two in the morning. I remember in that moment feeling alone for a moment and then remembering Jesus at the Garden of Gethsemane and how even his disciples couldn't stay awake with him. You know, I remember that passage where they just fell asleep. They're humans, they're, you know, human beings. And I looked at my husband with compassion. And in that moment I just felt like Jesus was like, but I'm here, you know, I haven't fallen asleep. And those moments that you have with Jesus, I mean, some of the moments that he's spoken to me the most have been through those dark times. And I feel like we can't equate our spiritual growth and health with our mental health. Because oftentimes our mental health struggles are the catalyst for our spiritual health. They're what help us to grow and cling to Jesus in those dark times.

I couldn't agree with that more. I mean, I know, you know, in our own, with me dealing with anxiety and depression and even Dave having some bouts with anxiety. You know, even in those moments where, you know, sometimes as spouses we wanna fix it but we feel ill equipped. And I, you know, you're so right, Deborah. It's like that is literally the very catalyst that brings you closer to him sometimes. It's the very thing that maybe brings you back to him. Like maybe you've been trying to Run. But he's always right there, you know, because sometimes we just, we have to feel alone sometimes to know that he is right there. And he is, you know, Jesus is right there with us, never falling asleep, you know, always our comforter, you know, always right there. And so I love that. And it's beautiful. And if you're listening right now and you've gone through what Deborah's been describing and what I've been describing and you're like, I have felt just so much, you know, so many thoughts really in my mind and I've been having this fight or flight feeling all the time. Cause I'm going through anxiety attacks. I hope you hear that. I hope you hear us say that Jesus is right there with you and you're not crazy. You know, I think that's a big lie of Satan, is like, oh, you're crazy or you're damaged, you did something to deserve this. You know, all these horrible lies that he tries to give us and that there's something in the chemistry of your brain. But also lean in, you know, and get help for that. Like all the different things we've been talking about. But also, you know, lean into Jesus. Lean into him and even, especially in those moments in the middle of the night. Because for some reason that's exactly when anxiety really likes to come. But you know, Jesus isn't asleep. He's right there with you.

Man, that's so good.

Amen.

Well, Deborah, we're almost out of time. This has been so, so helpful. I mean, I have no doubt that this is really gonna make a life changing impact for some folks that really, really needed the hope and the practical tools that you're sharing. And there's even more of that in Debra's brand new book, Are youe Really okay? And I encourage you to get that. You know, go to Amazon, go wherever you get your books. You can also go to Deborah's site@trulovedates.com But Deb, before we wrap up, I want to kind of give you the floor one last time just to share, you know, for that, you know, person that's listening and they're struggling in some way and they're wondering like what? What's one thing I can do? Or what's that one next step that I can take just to make it really tangible and practical for them to find health. What would you share with that person?

You know, first, I think it's important for us to remember that just because we're Christians doesn't mean that we're healthy. Right. Like, that's where we have to start in realizing that Jesus calls us to love him with our heart, soul, mind, and strength. And as you go through the pages of this book, you're going to see the four sections are actually broken up into those sections things, emotional health, spiritual health, mental health, and physical health. Because we shouldn't be surprised that the enemy is going to come after those very things that we're called to love God with our entirety. And so one thing that I offer in the book is those checkup questions at the end of each chapter. And why those are important is because we go to the doctor. But do we ever do a spiritual checkup, an emotional checkup, a mental health checkup? And so I recommend you start there. Start with those checkup questions to see, which of these areas am I struggling in the most? Which of these areas do I need to begin the process of taking the next step? Maybe for someone, it could be the emotional health piece, and the next step for them is learning to identify their emotions. Maybe for somebody, it's the mental health piece, and they're struggling with depression, and the next step for them is to make an appointment with a therapist. Maybe the spiritual health is struggling, and the next step for them is to really take inventory of their beliefs about God and how they've been shaped by their past. I mean, really what it comes down to is acknowledging where I need to begin. And for each person, that's going to look a little different. And then taking that next step. I just encourage you to do it. And one more thought before we have to go about therapy. A lot of times people see it as, I'm sick and in need of a doctor. But I want people to start seeing therapy like somebody who wants to go to the gym to work out. You're going to strengthen those emotional and mental muscles. It's something positive that you're doing for yourself.

That's so good.

I love that.

That's great. I've never heard it put that way. That's awesome.

Yeah.

So good.

That's it. Yeah, that's so good. And so if you're listening to this and you've been on the fence, let that be that encouragement to go find that workout partner, and they're going to help you get stronger. And again, check out Deborah's book and all of her resources. It really, really is going to. It's going to help you wherever you are in your journey. There are nuggets in there that are going to help you get stronger. So, Deborah, thank you for the work that you're doing. We so appreciate you. It's an honor to call you a friend. And we just are praying for you and your beautiful family and cheering you on. And we hope that this book just changes countless lives. And I'm sure that it will.

Yes.

Thank you so much, you guys. I love chatting with you. I'm so grateful for what you're doing and thank you for sharing your space with me today. Absolutely.

Well, for everybody that was listening and watching today, thank you so much for tuning in again. You can find more about deborah@truelovedates.com and as for this podcast, do us a favor, leave a review, share this on social media. If this encouraged you today, and I'm sure that it did, you know, technically text this link to somebody or put this on your Facebook or Instagram and say, check this out. This was so encouraging to me. It would encourage you, too. We appreciate you guys helping us spread the word. God bless. We'll see you next time.

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