Dealing With Strong-Willed Kids | Parenting Uncovered | Dave & Ashley Willis

Foreign. Hey there and welcome back to Parenting Uncovered. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and just we haven't even said this yet, but we are coming to you. If you're watching this on YouTube, we are coming to you live. At least live right now from our studio in South Lake, Texas, the marriage capital of the world. And the reason I'm mentioning this is because I'm having a delightful pumpkin spice latte. Okay. Made with oat milk at our exopress. And I'm telling you guys, guys, you're missing out if you don't come watch one of our live recordings or even some of our other podcasters live recordings and, and just go in the Exo Press Cafe and enjoy your day. If you're in the dfw, that's Dallas Fort Worth area in Texas. You can come anytime. We have good wi Fi. You can get your work done and. And also see what's happening at xo.

Yeah. Listen to live. Live podcast recordings. Have a nice.

Yeah, it's really good. I'm gonna keep on drinking this, but we are talking about something that man, I know so many of you can relate to and we certainly can relate to, and that is how to parent a strong willed or spirited. Some people say child.

Yes. And so I'm gonna start with something that's funny.

Okay.

So in Kentucky, where we grew up.

Go Wildcats.

Go Wildcats. An obituary went viral for a man named James Loveless, who passed away June 14th. And the obituary was written by his tying into the episod, Strong willed son. Right. So he had a couple strong willed son that wrote his father's obituary.

Okay, I think I've seen this, but refresh my memory.

I just want to read this to you. This is a real obituary and it's for James Lovelace, written by his son, Rest peace, James. Rest in peace, James.

Yes.

Born and raised in Kentucky in 1963, a state that has been recently leaning toward more liberal values, we might add. Jamie, a divorcee, father, grandfather and proud owner of a few lots in the trailer park, had enough up and died on June 14 in order to avoid another presidential stolen election mishap in the near future.

Wow.

As a gluttonous eater of fried foods and snack cakes, as well as the occasional chili cheese dog, James tried in vain to give up the ghost by clogging his arteries and having a stroke. In 2015, his twin boys, Rocky and Rodney, had other plans, made him go to the hospital. While waiting in the ER at the hospital, he was heard saying, let's make a break for it only to be heard by one of the hospital staff and forced to go through the procedure. He wasn't too excited, but he went anyway. On many occasions in life, James was seen in his backyard at the trailer park during the early hours in the morning, hammering beers, standing over his country style ribs and yelling, it's got a head like a cat on it. While nearby neighbors would peek out their windows bearing looks of disgust and amazement as the party guests were slurring remarks about needing to speed up his cooking style. We've been here since 5 o', clock, they'd say. I gotta get to work in the morning. We don't know if he was married, but he was definitely a ladies man. There was Kathy, Marilu, Tammy, Deborah, Carrie, Tina, et cetera. It's the bones, he'd tell us proudly, pointing to his skinny, pasty white legs. Women love a good shin. We think he might even have some females waiting for him on the other side.

Wow.

Jamie loved his family more than anything else in the world, except ice cold bush, room temperature bush, T Bone, New York Strip, prime ribs, shrimp swimming, poker, hatchback, Mustang GTs, tank tops, Kentucky men's basketball, and his personal copy of Eddie Murphy's Raw.

That is funny.

He leaves behind his favorite son, Rocky Loveless of Arizona City, Arizona, his second favorite son, Rodney Loveless of Science Hill, a younger brother, Joey, an unofficial daughter named Melissa of the trailer park, as well as a pair of old boxer shorts which have Buttweiser King of rears printed on the design. He will be moderately missed.

Moderately missed.

Pulaski Funeral Home is honored to assist the family with arrangements.

So Pulaski County.

So this is pulaskyfuneralhome.com you can see a picture of James. Rest in peace.

We always joke about why people pick the pictures, right?

Yeah. Get a decent picture of yourself that could be used in the obituary. As a guy that does funerals, I just see the family will pick a terrible photo of you if you don't just say, you know, use this.

So that is hilarious, by the way.

So his two sons got together and wrote an obituary for their. His favorite son wrote the obituary. So strong ruled. Kids grow up and, you know they'll write your obituary. So you gotta keep that in mind when you're.

They'll tell all your stuff.

They're gonna tell all your stuff.

Skeletons in the closet, all of it. No, I mean, you can tell they truly love their dad. And that's really sweet. And he's probably. If he could read that, he'd be Laughing.

He'd be laughing at my boys and.

He'D be like, they even mentioned the boxers. Budweiser. Okay, no, but in all seriousness, I'm so glad we're talking about how to raise strong willed kids because this is the episode of many episodes. Okay. Because I think we approach this podcast as one. Like, what did we wish we could have known? You know, and this is one of those where, man, a lot of the things we're gonna share with you, I wish I would have known, you know, back in the day when I was in the thick and when we were in the thick of dealing with strong willed kids. Because first and foremost I wanna say, like strong willed kids, they are a blessing. Like, this is not a curse as it feels. As a parent, it feels like, why, oh Lord, thank you for this child, but why did you give me such a strong willed kids? Because here's the deal. Strong willed kids, you know, they're the ones that no matter what you say, a lot of times they'll challenge it. Okay. They're usually smart as a whip and they just, they're thinking like, I have a better idea, okay? And they'll voice it. They're the ones that, you know, usually have a really good sense of humor and will do stuff that they think is funny that is really embarrassing to you as a parent. We've had this many times. You know, they're the ones that usually get a teacher comment that shows the teacher's frustrated. And we're going to share some stories like kind of from our own experience. You know, in our family we have four boys, Cooper, Conner, Chandler, Chatham. And there's a nine year span there. And so. And we have in the middle 10.

Really?

I mean, it's well, nine and a half. Yeah, almost 10.

Yeah, almost 10.

Right. And definitely 10 grade wise, like in school. But they, you know, we have, we took kind of a breather in between what we refer to as our bigs and our littles. And if you're into kind of the, I don't know, the birth order stuff, there's whole books on this. We almost traditionally, if you look at those, and again, this doesn't define anybody because every family can be a little different and every personality can be different. But ours, it's almost like we have two firstborns and two babies, personality wise with those studies they've done on birth order. But, and a lot of times, not always, but a lot of times in families it tends to be a lot of firstborns or ones where there's like A big age gap in between. A lot of times only children, you know, tend to have first or tend to have a strong willed or spirited qualities. And so in our family, our first Cooper and our third, Chandler, really, you know, both are strong willed. Okay. And I will say when we first realized this, which was honestly for Cooper, I'm not even kidding you. Like when he was a baby, right, sweetie?

Yeah.

He did this thing where he, you know, Cooper, sweetest baby, slept really well. Like I want to say. And people get people with kids who don't sleep well. I'm hard, I feel bad even mentioning this, but honestly, most of our kids slept really well. So we didn't have colic that we were dealing with. So slept really well, pretty easy in a lot of respects. Didn't nurse well. We had a lot of problems with like the whole nursing thing, which probably is just user error on my part, like understanding it. But I remember when he was probably like six months old, he did this thing where he would, if he didn't want something, and once he started talking, he would actually verbalize this because he was an early talker, like he really was. But he would raise his little fist and he would punch the air, like trying to.

But then he would get scared of his own fist.

He would get scared of his own fist, which was really funny. And then when he was older enough to talk, he'd say, no, no, don't like it. And he said this to everything. And he'd punch the air and go, no, no, don't like it. No, no, don't like it.

Oh, man, he was, he was strong willed.

I mean, he was so strong willed. And like, I remember it just, it was like tightly wound. You know, you could just see it in his little body. And then, you know, we end up in the school years and there was just some working through some of those things where teachers even who hadn't dealt with strong willed kids would misunderstand them. I think a lot of people, if they are not well versed in the strong willed child, and then it can feel like, why will this kid not sit on his square? Why won't she raise her hand? Why is she talking all the time? That was me. Like, I got talking on my. I was a strong willed child. My mom said literally for years I got talking marked on my report card, I'd get moved to a seat by myself, you know. And again, I wasn't trying to be like rude. I was just like, I have things to say, you know, I mean, like, as a strong willed Kid, you're like, I want to be known. I have things to say. And so anyway, I remember, you know, with Cooper, we definitely had some things we were working through. He ended up having some intestinal issues, which a lot of kids do. And this was like, about 4 years old that were pretty critical. I mean, like, ending up in the ER sometimes, you know. And I remember because he is just so intelligent and very verbal, always has been. He could really articulate his feelings and his wants and desires. And I remember, like, having, you know, he needed certain medicine and there were certain procedures we had to do to help get him through this, like, intestinal difficulty. And I remember literally, like, having these battles with him. Like, he would go to battle and resist everything I was trying to do with him and everything you were trying to do with him, because that Will, he didn't understand what he needed. And that Will was so strong. And it was. It was hard. Right, sweetie? I mean, those were. Those were some really hard years.

They really were. I mean, they were really hard years. And it was discouraging as a parent and embarrassing. Embarrassing, right? Yeah.

All out, like tantrums, just.

And it's hard to not take it personally as a parent, especially with your first child. With your first one, you see somebody, we all play the comparison game, which we should not, because every one of us is unique by God's design. But you look at your friends who have this kind of docile, well behaved, calm spirit, you know, calm natured kid, and you look at your child who's. Who's very spirited, very strong willed, challenging you on everything, and you think, my gosh. And then whether they mean to or not, the parents with the really easy natured kid tend to be judgy. They think, especially with the first kid, without the experience of knowing each kid so different, that that kid is calm because they're somehow superior parents.

I've got this.

Oh, and I would never. That would never. I would nip that in the bud right away. And then all of a sudden, like, we have, you know, I won't name names, but there's young couple in our church we love dearly. They're good friends of ours, and we had kids long before they did. Yeah. And the wife would see our kids coming in when they were young and spirited.

Well, and this is what she would say. And I know she did not mean, like, I don't think she was trying to hurt her feelings.

No, no. She was very young at the time.

She would say, oh, here come the Willis boys. Oh, wow, here they Are everybody knows.

The freak show's in town. And admitted. And it was.

She didn't say the freak show's in town. You could hear it.

You could hear it. Yeah, in her expression. And it was obvious from her expression and tone and kind of some of the sarcastic remarks that it was clear that she was just judging us basically as a family.

Oh, no. I mean, I thought that's the way she was.

It wasn't a mystery.

But I mean, it's fine. We're all imperfect. Parent before.

We're all imperfect, but now they've. Yeah, we're all the perfect parent before kids.

Yeah, like, I wasn't.

But now she's got three very spirited boys, and they're the ones coming into.

Church and they're just precious and sweet.

And wild, but they're boys just full of spirit like ours were. And I love it. I love it.

And there's a lot of spiritual girls out there too.

They're the ones that look worn out now. Those parents look worn out. And, you know, we've kind of like our kids have all mellowed out. And so she's actually apologized to us. She's like, listen, I was wrong. Like, parenthood has humbled me. I used to have these just.

It humbles all of us.

Judgy thoughts. And so anyway, we love them. They're awesome.

Well, I had one friend of mine, dear, dear friend. She's become one of my very best friends. I remember back when I first got to know her, we had, I think we just had the two boys and she had two girls around the same age, and we were part of a dance group at church. And so we got to be around each other a lot and our kids were around each other a lot. And I remember her being like, just kind of looking at me like, why can't you get your boys, like, handled? You know, and they weren't, again, they weren't doing anything bad or rude, but just being more spirited wouldn't really sit still because, you know, Cooper's strong willed and he'd have his. His way. He wanted to do things. And then again, I've shared on this podcast before, Connor wasn't strong willed but was had adhd.

So he's right, he was wild, he's sweet natured, all that, but he chill.

And as far as being easygoing, but he was, especially in the younger years.

Bouncing off the walls, climbing everything.

I mean, literally bouncing off the walls. And. And I remember my friend, you know, later on, we ended up having our thirds, our third children Together at the same time. I mean, I threw her a baby shower and everything. And I remember her little boy because she had the two girls and a boy. And I remember in the early years like when her little boy kind of found his voice. He is extremely strong willed, extremely intelligent in the early years. Gave them a run for their money. I mean there's all kinds of stories. Precious kid. But one of the most strong willed kids. I mean that, that I think I've encountered. And she's like, certainly that she's encountered. And she told me, she said, Ashley. She said, I'm going to be honest, I used to think that you guys just couldn't get it together. She said, I love you guys. I've always admired you guys. But I just. When your kids were smaller, I literally thought they just don't know how to get control of their kids. And she said, but now she goes, I have a strong willed kid. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. And he does these things. And she's like, I don't know what I was thinking. She goes, I'm so sorry. I was judging you all. And I'm like, listen, we just don't know. We don't know what it's like till we're there. We just don't know. And I will say that her child, now you talked about mellowing out. He's a sixth grader. And it's being strong willed, especially in those early years and maybe again in the teenage years. Yeah, really, really hard season for parents. But in the long run, if we steer it towards the good things, strong willed people can do incredible things and it will serve you well enough.

World leaders.

Yes.

Are people that started out as strong world. So yeah, it's a superpower if you channel it. But how do you channel it? We want to give you some real practical stuff. Something that helped with our third who was.

Well, let's talk about Chandler.

Yeah, Chandler. Our third.

We're fresh on the brain. Anyway.

Awesome. Such a bright kid. I mean he is now like a boy scout. He's working to be an eagle scout. Just a great kid all the way around. But in the early years, very strong willed, very hard to rein in more than Cooper. Maybe the hardest one. And we discovered something called occupational therapy which I didn't know what that was at the time, but it was a life changer because Cooper went through it as well. Right.

Well, can I give a little bit of background to this? So here's why we ended up in OT is what they refer to it. So Chandler in preschool in particular, we knew he was strong willed, right, sweetie? I mean, this wasn't like a shocker to us, but we end up putting him in this preschool that all of our kids had gone through. We knew everybody there. And he gets a teacher that none of our kids had had. And I think, like, the same. I don't know, probably the fifth week of school, I go to pick him up in the car line and the teacher literally, like, puts him in his car seat because, you know, they're four years old, so they're in like, the car seat and she almost like slams him down in the car seat. Like, there was a frustration with how she put him in the car seat. And see, normally it wasn't his teacher who put him in his car seat. So that's why I hadn't seen this before. And I hadn't had any. Like, she had sent no notes home. There's. And they talk about behavior stuff. Like, there's no. I had no information that he wasn't doing well. Like, there was no this. So this was very concerning to me. So anyway, and I look at her and I go, oh. I said, rough day? And she goes, I don't even know where to begin. And I was like, what? And I paused for a moment because I'm like, I need to know what's going on. And she's like, I just. I don't even know where to start. And so I was like, okay, we need to have a conference. So we end up scheduling a conference.

And.

And I sit down with her. And this is a teacher. She's taught a long time. She herself had homeschooled two boys, you know, and had this whole class of kids and stuff. And she said, listen, I have been teaching a long time. I've raised boys myself. But she said, Chandler basically is like, no one I've ever taught. I'm out of my league with him. I don't understand his love language. She used that. She said, I try to get. I try to understand my students love language. I don't understand his. And honestly, I just don't get this kid. Like, and what I heard as a mom is like, I don't like your kid. And I'll be honest with you, she didn't like. And I've been a teacher, you guys, for years, and I am very reluctant to put that label on a teacher or on anybody. I want to be like, no, it's not about that. But I think Chandler had given her such a hard time that she didn't like him. I mean, and Chandler, being a very intelligent, he picked up on it, he perceived it.

She doesn't like me.

And she did this chart. And this is what you need to understand about strong willed kids too. It's not that they, they don't want to make. I mean, most kids aren't with whatever they're dealing with, aren't like, I'm just going to make everybody's life miserable. I'm going to make a scene, I'm going to be bad, you know, like, I don't think it's like that. I think a lot of times it's, I want to be seen, I want to be loved, I want to be noticed. You know. And they had this chart system where they would, you know, get like merits and demerits based on behavior. And Chandler, who is just wired this way, Cooper was very similar. Cooper's all, he's a cheat. And a che wants to do well. Great, amazing kid, you know, wants to rise to the level and picks up on this. And so Chandler was no different. And anyway, he came home and he was like, mom, he goes, no matter what I do, I can't move up the chart. And then at the end of the school day, and this is the big mistake here that at the time was made in this class, he said, at the end of the school day, they line up the kids based on where they are on the chart. And he said, I'm always the last kid.

Oh yeah.

And he said, that's demoralizing for a.

I mean, it just seems cruel.

He would cry about it because he's like, I'm trying. He goes, she never notices the good that I'm doing.

She only sees the bad.

She only sees the bad. And so anyway, after that meeting, we met also with the principal of the school. And she was like, listen, we love Chandler. We've had him before. He was in like their two year old program and their three year old program. And she's like, we know he's strong willed. And she's like, let's just keep an eye on this. And just to do our due diligence, we made an appointment with the doctor, right, sweetie?

Yes. And it was the doctor that suggested occupational therapy. And we didn't know what that was. We're thinking like, it just sounds like some extreme thing. Like, oh my gosh, what? Occupational therapy? What is that? But really it's a system and a program. I mean, it's kind of a combination of coaching, counseling and helping kids get control of tasks. And motor skills and behavioral. And behavioral issues in a very structured way. And it was a game changer for him. I mean, it was difficult for him at first, but he quickly adapted and we saw the change almost immediately. And it was an encouraging process for him because he realized, okay, I have control over my reactions, and when I can control my reactions, good things happen. So occupational therapy is something to look into if you get a Schroeder.

I'm a behavioral specialist.

Yeah, behavioral specialist. And so the group of ladies that worked with him there, it was such a gift. I mean, so why we do this podcast really is to just let you know about tools that you might not have known about and to give you encouragement on the journey. Because, guys, parenthood's difficult and it's the most important job any of us will ever have. And so we just want to let you know there are resources out there. And if you've got a really strong willed kid, especially one that's really young. Yes. Something like occupational therapy could be a game changer and just know that there are resources out there.

There are. And you mentioned earlier that Cooper went. So later on, I don't even remember what age it was, maybe in the early middle school, since we learned about occupational therapy and how helpful it was to Chandler, there were some things going on with Cooper that we were like, you know what, let's just have him evaluated and see if this might help him. And it did. Like, they worked on some different things with Cooper. He wasn't having, like, behaviors.

He was older. So, like, Chandler was four when Cooper.

When he was, I think, sixth grade maybe.

Yeah.

And he was willing to go. And there was, you know, we come to find out there were things that would irritate Cooper. We could do a whole other podcast on this, but Cooper most, I mean, now this is more kind of diagnosed. I think he had some sensory issues that frustrated him that we did not know about. And the occupational therapist really taught us about this. And, you know, I will say this. Now that Cooper's 18, he's at the University of Georgia. So he's gone through middle school and high school. And now as a college student, his being strong willed has served him well. And he has, I feel like God has helped Cooper to move this in the right direction. You know, Cooper being an achiever has that strong will to keep. To keep going after that goal. And Cooper, you know, he's. He's academically very driven. And so he really was able to achieve the things that he wanted to achieve and get into his Top school, made really good grades. And he's been able to have leadership roles in different capacities over the years. And I feel like it's given him a confidence in a lot of aspects of his life that have served him well.

It's a superpower.

It's a superpower. And same with Chandler. Like I'm seeing now, scouting is really catering to that strong will because you have to be very self motivated.

You gotta be driven. And it's channeled in the right structure.

It is.

And he's thriving in it. And so you gotta put your kids in a place, whatever their personality, where they can thrive. I think it was Albert Einstein who said, every child is a genius at something.

Yes, I would say, but if a.

Fish thinks that its job is to climb a tree, it'll go its whole life thinking it's stupid.

Right.

Because a fish is a genius at swimming. So find what your child thrives in. Find the environment where they thrive and then support them there. Don't try to squeeze them into the mold of just like, well, everybody in our family does this or does that. Well, maybe one of your kids isn't wired for that and that's okay. And don't make them feel like a failure, because they don't. But help them just be at their best. And yeah, this has been a great conversation. Hey, we end every episode with my favorite part of the show. A fascinating fact from Ashley, a dad joke from Dave. And sweetie, you want to go first?

You go first.

All right, all right, all right. Do you know how. Do you know how a penguin builds his house in the snow?

I do not.

Igloos it.

Igloos it.

Glues it. Igloos it.

Oh, my goodness.

Igloo. I think I mispronounced it.

He glues it. Yes. Anyway, I love it. Well, today I'm gonna talk about how bug moms serve snacks too. Cause, you know, moms were known for getting some snacks together and having snacks on the go, having snacks after school, you know, all the things in sports. And this is again from SmithsonianMag.com it says this mammals are perhaps the most involved animal moms yet. A small but distinguished number of creepy crawlies are also doting mothers. Mommy, Daddy Long Legs, who I just. I love Mommy, Daddy Long Legs. They're great. Tote their spiderlings. For a week after they are born, they tote them around and one type of earwig mom gives her all the her hatched. This. This is. This is crazy. Okay. Her hatched. And this is. This is where this takes a turn. Her little hatchlings, okay, Her. Her hatched offspring, after she gives birth, completely consume their mother.

They.

They eat her, okay? And it's a chilling pro. A process called matriga. I'm sorry, Matrim. How do I say this?

We get it.

It's a thing.

They eat. They eat petrificy, okay?

But this is how they do it. So, earwigs. She gives birth, she's given life to them, and then she's their first snack. Yeah.

Isn't that like parenthood, though? You give life to the children, and then they just try to suck the life out of you?

No, but I'm like. You're looking at me like, Ashley, that's so weird. But I'm telling you, literally, she literally.

Give all for your kids.

She gave her all. Yeah, well, you didn't know I was going to go there, did you?

I did not. That took a turn.

He's speechless. He's speechless.

And on that note. Hey, guys, thanks for tuning in. I'm not. I thought I wanted a snack, but now I'm not hungry.

You're like, this sounded fun, but it's not.

We appreciate y' all so much. Reach out to us on Instagram. Let us know what's happening. Send us ideas for shows, fascinating facts, dad jokes, whatever you got. You can find us at Dave and Ashley Willis on Instagram and Our Ministries website, xomarriage.com A bunch of free resources for you there as well. God bless, guys. We'll see you next time.