Family Drama - Part 2 | In-Law Drama | Dave and Ashley Willis - MESSAGE ONLY

Good afternoon, Stevens Creek. You guys feeling good today? You excited to be here?

Yes, man.

No place I'd rather be than hanging out with you guys right now.

That's right.

So welcome. Welcome to those watching online from the beach or wherever you are. We miss you, but we're glad you're watching online. And it is. It's gonna be an exciting day.

It is. And we're actually starting out with sharing a little bit of our own family drama with you. So we're starting off with an honest confession about a house guest that Dave and I, we don't agree on. We don't agree on about this house guest.

Like, so he's part of. Ashley considers him part of the family. He's not really part of the family. Wally. Wally's just his nickname. I don't even know his actual real name, but. So Wally lives with us, and I just feel like it's awkward. I feel like it's an awkward arrangement. He follows me around. He is always getting into stuff. Ashley feels like he pulls his weight and helps clean up and stuff. I think I'd rather he just not be there. But we don't agree on it. And so it's one of those areas where, you know, it caused a little bit tension. And so we're going to do, like a talk show moment. We actually brought Wally with us. We're going to bring him out.

Yes.

On stage. So, Wally, if you're here, we can go ahead and. Wally, you want to come out?

Come here, Wally.

There he is.

He's just the best.

The robot vacuum.

Yes.

Named Wally by our children after the Pixar movie. Wally.

Yes.

But this little guy, that's. As long as he's gone in a straight line ever, he's usually looks for the nearest cell phone charger or shoelace to eat. And this is what Ashley does, though. She'll turn him on right as she's leaving the house for some reason, and I'm still there. And he just. This thing follows me, like, wherever I go. He's just following me, like, Dave, what are you doing? What are you doing? He. He's.

He really likes you.

And then as soon as I get comfortable, he gets stuck on something and start beeping. And I got to get up and pick him up.

I know.

And it's.

But I. I like Wally. Like, I like a clean house. We've got four boys ranging in age from eight to 18. Things are messy, and I tend to be the one who's the primary vacuumer in the house. And so, like, Wally helps save me some time. Even if he is bumping into stuff and sometimes eating a cord, I still feel like he's worth it. And so we kind of, we've had to work through our feelings about this house guest.

And so you're wondering why are you talking about a vacuum at the start of a message? Well, so there's a really light hearted, small time way to have a disagreement about something. Like, you know, she's for it, I'm not. She only sees the good. I tend to kind of see the negative in this, but on a bigger scale when you're talking about an actual person, an actual relative perhaps like this can cause real tension in a relationship. If your spouse has somebody that's very much a part of both your lives and they only see the good, they want this person around all the time. And maybe you feel like, well, they don't treat me the same as they treat you, like they're good to you. But when you're not around, like, I'm feeling disrespected here by this relationship and it can create real tension. And in law relationships I think can be such a blessing. They can be such a blessing because when you marry, God wants you to have this whole other family to be part of your family. And his plan, his vision is for all of us to have a multi generational, healthy family. And even if you're here today and you're not married, these relationship principles still apply to you. So don't tune out because this will help you in all your relationships. But for those of you who are married, like this is, this is important, this is important. We do marriage ministry full time with the ministry called XO Marriage. People from all over the world, they write us messages, they grab us at conferences, they tell us their story. And so many people are struggling in this area and of in law relationships. And it's one of those things so few people are talking about openly. So everybody feels like they're struggling in silence. And so today we're giving the first sermon in a church either of us have ever heard on the topic of in law relationships. Because God wants you to thrive in this area. And the Bible has a lot to say about this area. And as great as they can be, we also want to just acknowledge that these relationships can be complicated. Because when you join two families together, two family cultures, two family dynamics, two sets of family values and traditions and holidays, and then all the unique personalities each of those families represent, it's a lot all at once. And it can cause you can Just create some tension. If it's not navigated carefully, it definitely can.

And just as a culture, there's such a negative connotation with in laws. Like when you even hear in laws people. I mean, sometimes we can, like we've talked about it, you can hear like an audible, like, okay, you know, and like there's movies called Monster in law, like after mother in laws. It's usually the mother in laws that, that get like the worst reputation. I don't know why that is. But you just. There's kind of this narrative in our culture, like if you have a decent relationship with your mother in law that you've just hit the jackpot, you have the unicorn relationship. Because they just assume that most people don't have good in law relationships. And as Christian people, you guys, we've got to aim higher and we have to do better. And it really starts with us. And that's what we're going to start out with this important information right here. And that is our first point, which is God calls all of us to be peacemakers in our family, because if we're going to have good in law relationships, we have to be peacemakers. But being a peacemaker is often misunderstood. And I want to share. Romans 12:18. I love this verse. And this is Paul speaking to the Romans. He says this, if it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Notice how he doesn't start it with live at peace with everyone and just leave it at that. He says, first of all, if it is possible, and then as far as it depends on you. And so he's basically saying you do your part, you try to live at peace with them. Be kind, give the olive branch, keep on trying to have that relationship. Be encouraging, be. Be just all the things that we're supposed to be as Christians, right? Be a kind person to this other person, but you do your part. But there's some times when you can be doing all the right things and still that other person, for whatever reason, doesn't want to be at peace with you. So what do we do in those scenarios? Do we just take maybe their mistreatment? Do we become a doormat? Absolutely not. You see, God does not call us to be peacemakers only to become doormats, because that's going to make a toxic relationship. And I think so many times you have these strong personalities that we're dealing with. And what we need to realize is those strong personalities, they may be kind of shelling out some hatred towards us, but most of the time, it has nothing to do with us, but everything to do with what's going on inside of their own heart because they themselves are not at peace. And when a person is not at peace and feeling insecure, feeling threatened, feeling full of fear, they act out of that and they prevent other people from being at peace with them. So as Christians again, like Paul is saying, we still have to do our part, but then if they're mistreating us, we don't become a doormat. We put healthy boundaries in place and lovingly, like with, in laws in particular, or maybe a relative. You say things like this, listen, you may not realize how you're coming off to me or how you're treating my spouse, but what you have done has really hurt us. And until you can speak kindly to me and to my spouse and about me and about my spouse, we're not going to be able to have the kind of relationship that I think you would like to have and I would like to have. So can we work on this together? Because right now this is not healthy and we have to be able to speak that plainly. And you guys, it takes the Holy Spirit, it literally takes sometimes almost biting off your tongue because you are holding back your rage. Because when somebody's angry at us and they're just shelling out hatred, they're calling us names, they're pointing at us, they're being derogatory, whatever it is, whether they're straight on doing this or even being passive aggressive. As human beings, what do we tend to want to do? We want to give it right back, right? We're like, you brought this to me. Well, let me tell you, I'm going to bring this to you. I want to give you a piece of my mind. But that's not at all what God calls us to do. You see, when we become angry, that is in itself not a sin.

But.

But what we do with that anger can sometimes cause us to sin. And what we're called to do is be peacemakers. And so we don't meet that volume level that they're yelling at us, we don't cuss back at them. We don't call them names like they're calling us. Instead, we either bite that tongue before we can say something nice, or maybe we just say, right now, I can't have this conversation. I'm going to go think about this. Or we just say, listen, right now seems to not be a good time because you're hurting me and I don't want to hurt you back because I love you and because I want to have a relationship with you. So the first kind of boundary we need to have as people is that we don't shell it back at them. We speak the truth in love. And that is all throughout the Bible. But I love how Proverbs 15:1 puts it. It says a gentle answer deflects anger but harsh words make tempers flare. And so we gotta be that, you know, sugar, they say you get more bees with sugar, right? And so it's like, or honey, whatever the saying is, you're not just going to like, you know, do something that's going to cause harm. We want to be kind, we want to be encouraging. We want to keep an open line for that relationship to possibly have a future. And when we're kind, it keeps that open line. But when we are angry and we act out of that anger and we say mean things, we're going to shut it down.

It's so true. Because God wants you to, to not just be able to tolerate the difficult people in your family, but actually love them wholeheartedly. Love them. And you know, I was laughing the other day because kind of the world's way to deal with these, these things. I was scrolling through social media and there's this social media influencer that's just launched a whole brand of wine. And the brand name of this wine that he's launched and marketed is called Family Time is Hard. That's what it's called. And so he's like, mark, hey, family Time's hard, why don't you drink? That's kind of like the world's answer is like, well your parents are coming over, I guess I better get hammered so I can deal with it like, and that's not the world's, I mean that's not God's way, right? It's funny, but God doesn't want you just to numb yourself so that you can endure it. He wants you sober minded to be able to enter into these situations fully present and to be an agent of positive change in these relationships. Here's the principle. A healthy relationship with in laws requires much more than just your tolerance of them. It requires your wholehearted love and commitment. And you think, but I can't make myself love somebody. I can't help how I feel about somebody. Well you see that's where you're wrong. Love isn't a feeling. Our culture has tried to make us feel like love is a feeling. And if I don't feel something to somebody then that's just the way it is. But God, who created love, teaches us that love is actually an action, it's a commitment. And then our feelings usually follow our actions. Once we act in love, then the feelings of love usually catch up. And so he calls us to love our family. He calls us to love our in laws. And love is rooted in a commitment. One of the most beautiful passages of scripture that is read at weddings, and I've done a lot of weddings and I've heard this at a lot of them. I love this passage, but it's not about marriage. I'm going to read this to you. You've probably heard this at a wedding. It's beautiful in description of marriage. But after I read it, I'm going to tell you who's really saying these words. It's from the book of Ruth, chapter one. But Ruth replied, don't urge me to leave you or turn back from you. Where you go, I will go. Where you stay, I will stay. Your people will be my people, your God will be my God. Where you die, I will die. And there I will be buried. And may the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything, but death separates you and me. Those are powerful romantic words. I mean, you think, well, that's got to be a husband talking to a wife or a wife talking to a husband. It's not, you know what it is? It's a daughter in law talking to her mother in law. Ruth was talking to Naomi. And actually Naomi wasn't even her mother in law at this point in the story. Not legal anyway. Ruth was married to Naomi's son. Naomi's son, Ruth's husband was kidding, killed. And now there was no legal bond between the two. They're not even in laws anymore. But Ruth, understanding the covenant of marriage, the commitment of family, understanding that in the ancient world there was no kind of social welfare system to protect a widow whose husband and sons had died. There was no way to care for her. Naomi's telling Ruth, go, you're not even from here. Go back to your land, your people, build a life, have a family. And Ruth, out of just love and commitment, looks at this woman and says, I'm never going to leave you. I'm with you for life. I'm going to take care of you. And God honored Ruth's commitment. So much so that Ruth became the mother of Kings, the grandson of King David. It was through Ruth's lineage that God ultimately brought the king of Kings, Jesus Christ himself. And so we've got to have that kind of love and commitment to one another. And so how do we do that? We do it with honor. Honoring. It starts with honoring those God's placed in our family. And when the Bible says honor, honor your parents, it also extends to your spouse's parents.

It does. And we're supposed to honor our parents and you know, our whole life. I think sometimes we misconstrue that. And even that as we go into adulthood is often misunderstood. You know, this is in the Bible in several places. But I love in Ephesians 6, 2, 3, it says this, it says honor your father and mother. This is the first commandment with a promise. If you honor your father and mother, things will go well for you and you will have a long life on earth. And I love that because really, when you think about it, when you have good relationships with your parents and if you're married, good relationships with your in laws and there's honor between you guys, there's just so much more peace in your life. And things do go better as far as just having that peace in that relationship. And it even says you're going to live a long life. I mean, that's a pretty, pretty amazing promise. But I think that oftentimes we misunderstand that. Honor is something that doesn't stay the same as far as how we do actually act out in honor towards our parents. And so when we're kids, honor looks like listening and obeying with a good attitude. That's what we're called to do as kids to our parents. You know, our parents love us, they're teaching us, they're taking care of us. We honor them by listening and obeying with a good attitude. Now as we move into adulthood, we still want to honor our parents, but it doesn't look exactly the same. We're going to honor them by listening to them, by showing them honor, being respectful to them. But we can listen to them because they do still have really good advice and really good perspective. But we don't necessarily have to obey them because we are now an adult. We are autonomous and we can make our own decisions. And then as married adults, we still too can honor our parents by listening to them, by showing them respect. Sometimes when they age, we have to take care of our parents and we show them honor in that way of caring for them as they once cared for us. But even still, we don't necessarily obey them. We still are an autonomous couple that makes our own decisions. And we have to understand too that our priorities change once we are married. You know, I love how Jimmy Evans, the founder of the Ministry. We work for Exo Marriage. He wrote a book called the Four Laws of Love. And one of the laws of love is the law of priority, which is completely biblical. And he really kind of just paints the picture for us and basically explains that biblically speaking, when it comes to married couples, their priorities need to look something like this. God first, then your spouse, then your kids, and then your parents and in laws and other people. That's kind of how our priorities are supposed to go. But where we kind of feel the rub in a lot of families and kind of have trouble kind of fulfilling this honor code that we're really supposed to have throughout our life is that there's a lot of families where codependency has been running rampant for generations now. What is codependency? Codependency is when two people, usually within a family, not always. I mean, this can even be marriages that are unhealthy or friendships that are unhealthy. But we're going to talk about in the family perspective. So, like, maybe let's say a daughter and a mother have this relationship, a mother, daughter relationship. But this, it goes beyond just being a parent. It really is one of control, where this mother, you know, puts all of her efforts towards her daughter and is really controlling pretty much every facet of her life. And it tends to be where the daughter becomes more of a pleaser and she just lives to please her mom. And if her mom is happy with her, she's happy. If her mom is sad with her, she's sad. And it's just this constant kind of symbiotic, unhealthy relationship that goes on. And. And a lot of people who have these different kind of codependent relationships, they'll bring that into the marriage. And then once they're married and outside of that home of origin and maybe even some physical distance is there. It's not until they're away from that person and kind of out of the orbit of that relationship, so to speak, that they recognize that they were in a codependent relationship all along because they're like, oh, my gosh, I was so used to this for generations in my family, this is how we lived. Like, we didn't have really strong marriages because it was all about this mother daughter relationship or what other, you know, maybe it's with your siblings. And so it takes really recognizing it, being away from it, and then getting professional help to get on the same page in a healthy way. And what this looks like is families, you know, couples, especially if they come into marriage with that codependent relationship and want to break that generational cycle and have a strong marriage, they go to family counseling. Oftentimes, these Christian counselors will create what's called, like, a family contract. And it's where the whole family ideally comes to that counselor, and they all talk about everything and try to get on the same page with what boundaries need to be in place, how they're going to treat each other. And then when somebody starts to slip a little bit, they all come back to that. They agree. They come back to that contract and say, listen, we want to keep on moving forward. We don't want to sway because we want to have healthy relationships, not codependent relationships that are mixing up God's law of priority. Because ultimately, people in codependent relationships don't even realize that they are really hurting each other. You know, they tell themselves, this is healthy and this is good, and this is what I need and this is what I want. But really, they're holding each other back, and especially from having good marriages because they're so codependent with each other. And so it's really important that we identify these toxic relationships and. And we can make them healthy again. It's not that we cut them off completely, but we allow God to come in and make them healthy again.

Yeah, absolutely. And. And just as a quick caveat, like, we're talking about these things, and it's not just from sort of, like an outside knowledge of having read books or. I mean, Ashley's in a master's program for biblical counseling, and we're trying to do our homework for the work we do to understand this, but, like, just to be totally real with you guys, like, we've. We've lived it, this stuff. Yeah. Like, we. The first six years of our marriage, probably been married 22 years, but probably the first five or six years, like, we were. We were living through some really difficult dynamics that were in this area of, like, in law relationships and family relationships and codependency and. And just trying to identify and navigate all of it. And it was so hard. And it took counseling and it took mentors. It took prayer. It took a lot of things, and it took time. And I'm so thankful that we've come through that. And God doesn't waste anything. Anything you come through, he used it to make you stronger and then ultimately to be part of your testimony to help others. But we get it. All right? So, like, if you're in a situation like that, just know, like, you're not alone and There is hope and we can also relate to you. So how do we prevent those kind of unhealthy dynamics? I think as a whole, we have to all, whether you're married or single, have to have a healthy respect for the covenant of marriage. A healthy relationship with in laws requires respect for the sacredness of marriage. So if somebody marries into your family, you get a new brother or sister in law, a new son or daughter in law, a new mother, father in law. Like, I mean, you have to honor and respect the sacredness of marriage, even if that person isn't who you would have picked for your son, daughter, brother, sister, whatever. But you gotta say they love them. And so through their love, through that covenant, I now have a loyalty to them as family, as equal to my own blood relative. Because that's how God designed marriage. Jesus himself said it this way. Haven't you read the scriptures? Jesus replied, they record that from the beginning God made them male and female. And he said, this explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife. And the two are united into one, since they are no longer two, but one. Let no one split apart what God has joined together. So Jesus is saying, don't let anybody, even somebody in your own family, feel like they have the right to come and try to bring separation or division between you and your spouse. In the Old Testament, Moses was a great leader and prophet. He led a nation of Israel out of slavery into freedom. One of the great heroes of the Bible. There's several stories about his in law relationships that we can learn from some positive, some negative. On a negative side, Moses had two siblings, Miriam and Aaron. And when Moses, Moses was married to a woman who was not Jewish. So they were very, you know, it was kind of a very closed culture. And marrying kind of outside that culture was frowned upon. And Moses was married. Well, I'll just read the verse to you. There's a lot more to it, but I'll just read this one verse. When they were at Hazeroth, Miriam and Aaron criticized Moses because. Because he had married a kushite woman. So Moses had married a woman from a tribe in Africa. She was not Jewish. She was of a different culture, a different race. And Aaron and Miriam felt entitled to be able to openly criticize Moses and his wife, to make his wife now feel alienated from the family, as if to say, you don't belong. And what God does in this situation, to strongly rebuke, rebuke the prejudice of Aaron and Miriam is to step in with such righteous Anger toward Miriam and Aaron for thinking that they could somehow undo or compromise the sacredness of this marital bond that Moses had to step in and stop the wrath of God from potentially just killing Aaron and Miriam. I mean, this was a serious big deal. God was showing us the importance of the sacredness of marriage and how we within our families cannot let our prejudices or even our opinions come in and try to make someone who's married into our family now feel as if they don't belong. We have to invite, we have to love them as family the way that God has done for us. God has already done this for us, bringing all nations of earth together into one family through Jesus Christ. In all of our brokenness, Jesus, God's perfect son, died on a cross in our place, paid the price for our sin, so that by faith in him, all of us could be reconciled into God's family again, all of us. And then he says, I want you to do that in your own families. I want you to be about this business of reconciliation and not to stir up drama or division, but to protect the unity of every single marriage within your family. Even if you're a single person, you have a responsibility to protect and uphold the sacredness of the marriages around you, whether it's your parents or your siblings or whoever it might be. We're all called to that. But through that, there are also going to be times where we have to have some boundaries. And this is kind of where the rubber meets the road. What does this look like? A healthy relationship with in laws sometimes require healthy boundaries. And really that word sometimes should be always. Because even if you have healthy dynamics in your family, every healthy person, every healthy relationship is going to have some healthy boundaries. And sometimes those boundaries are telling somebody to just like, you're trying, you're trying too hard. I mean, to give you a funny example. So when we got married, my parents were so excited. They'd never had a daughter. They had only sons. Ashley comes along, they don't want to just call her their daughter in law, because in law to them just sounded like just. It was just a legal arrangement. And they wanted her to know you're part of this family. And so how would they introduce you to people?

Okay, we'd be meeting, like, fresh people did not even know, like, their kids and all this. And they'd be like, this is my son David, and this is my daughter Ashley. And then she'd go through, like, the other kids. And then like, we'd be in conversation, I'd be holding Dave's hand.

And then we would start like snuggling making out. Right? And these people are like, oh my gosh. But then they. Well, they are from Kentucky. I guess that explains that. But no, we're.

We would weird people out.

We are. I mean, we might be cousins.

We are not related at all. I know this for a fact.

So we had to tell mom and dad, guys, listen, like you're creeping people out. We're. Don't make them think we're related. You know, come up with some other phrase so they know that she's not your biological child.

Yes.

And so they started calling you the dog.

This is my daughter in love, which I love because it's distinguishing between daughter. Clearly, you know, I'm married to their son and I love that. And I think I'm going to adopt that with my four sons. I would love to call, you know, my daughter in law my daughter in love. And so I think that that's much better not to creep people out because it is kind of weird when they would look at us like worse.

I know we started some rumors, it was weird, it was a weird time. But sometimes though, it's something more serious that requires a boundary with the time we've got left. We're going to run through quickly a list of 10 behaviors that if you're filling in the blanks, you can fill these in. We've researched this because we have a book coming out in the fall called Married into the Family that's all about in law relationships. And with people from all over the world that have written us, we've just sort of compiled some consistent trends that there seem to be 10 clear, consistent unhealthy behaviors that can happen in family dynamics that we've got to be on the lookout for not only in other people, but in ourselves. So as we're running through this list, kind of look in the mirror too and say, God, am I doing any of these? Am I unwillingly, unknowingly being any of these things? These are the 10 unhealthy types of really just people in general, but we're applying it to in law relationships. And number one are bullies. I think that one's pretty self explanatory. Bullies are the one that kind of use manipulation, fear, intimidation to sort of force their way. Whether it's preferences of how holidays are celebrated or just about anything. And they're used to getting their way, bullies are. And until somebody says no, it's not fair, it's not right. And for me to enable you to continue to do that. It's actually doing it at the expense of all these other families and other relatives that are involved here. And so bullies have to realize they're not the only person. Number two.

That's right. Number two is judges. And I mean, this again is pretty self explanatory. This is people that just tend to be very judgmental and it might be of, you know, their own son or daughter, but also of maybe, you know, their, their in law. And I think too, it can be the other way. I think that sometimes, you know, you can marry someone who's really judgmental of your parents and they start mistreating your parents because they're so judgmental of everything that they do. And they feel like there's always some sinister something to every decision that they make. And so this really takes, you know, in a loving way, saying, hey, you may not even realize you're doing this, but every time you talk about this person that I love, you act like that you're just, you know, there's, you're judging them. Everything they do, whether right or wrong, it's like they just can't do right by you. And that is really hurtful because this is someone that I love. And I wish, you know, can you just be more mindful of that? Because it really is hurtful, not only to me, but also to the person that I love. And I think sometimes, you know, we do have blind spots and it takes us in a loving way just calling it out. All right, number three, elitists. And this is pretty self explanatory too. And this is usually when you marry into a family that is different than yours and maybe, maybe they are more, you know, they have more higher education or they have more money or just higher standards in some area. They're very different. They're better at certain things that maybe you're not that good at. And they tend to see themselves as just better than you. And it's really hurtful. And we see this a lot of times. There's kind of a power play that goes on with families. And this can cause a lot of friction between a husband you'll never belong.

Because you're not this. And I'm so thankful when, when I married into Ashley's family, you know, I was kind of intimidated by how good her dad was at like all of the traditional man stuff. Like he could fix anything, he could build anything. He has like all of these tools and knows how to use all of them. And I'm terrible at all that stuff. But all the, all the men in his family had been able to do those sorts of things. You know, they'd run businesses around that kind of stuff. And I thought, like, man, he's going to look at me, be like this, this loser doesn't measure up to any of that, you know, and, and so I would try to like, learn. And I. But I just felt like, man, I'm never going to be able to do that. But instead of him trying to make me feel dumb because I didn't have that skill, one day I said, bill, I could just, I could never do what you do. And he said, dave, I could never do what you do. You know, standing up in front of people and teaching and communicating. He's like, man, there's no way I could ever do that. And what he did in that moment is affirmed what God had wired me to do. And see, when God sends somebody in your family and their wiring is different than yours, their gifting is different than yours, instead of trying, if you're undermining them for that, you're not insulting them, you're insulting God who made them and who gave them their gifting and their personality. And so you've got to affirm them. I'm so thankful that he had that attitude. I'm like, wow, thank you. Yeah, I mean that God wires us all up how we're meant to be and we complement each other's strengths, but when we make it elitist, like, well, I'm good at this and so this is more valuable than what you do. We're holding other people down and we cannot be that way. Especially. Especially in family.

Exactly. All right, number four, we have the takers. And that's pretty self explanatory. And these are people that are always ready to take, take, take time, money, resources, whatever it is, but they're not really willing to give. And it's like every time they text you or call you, they need something from you, but they're never really there for you when you need them. And so again, it takes setting boundaries. Like if it's constantly them asking you for money, don't play that game, you guys. Like, that is messy. That does not end well. We're not talking about like a one time situation where somebody's just in desperate need, but like where it's somebody with this ongoing need to always need something from you. It takes you lovingly saying, like, listen, I can't this time, I'm so sorry, but why don't I take you out for coffee? Like, let's go Together. And you'll see, like, it'll change things real quick. And they'll be like, okay, it's more about relationship than me needing something from this person. Number five, scorekeepers.

Scorekeepers are the ones who are always keeping score, and you're always losing the game because they don't tell you what the rules are. And they're always changing the rules. So you're losing, they're winning, and you don't even know a game's happening. And it can be really exhausting. And so you just kind of have to not. Not play that. Number six are gaslighters. Gaslighting is kind of a trendy buzzword in our culture, which essentially refers to a phenomenon of a person that tries to. To rewrite history or manipulate facts to make you feel like you're crazy. And they're not to make you feel like you don't understand what happened or you don't understand reality, even when you do have a clear idea of what happened. And this is about control. It's really just an unhealthy need to control through manipulation, which is dangerous. With any of these, though, let me say any of these unhealthy behaviors, even if it's somebody else, if you see this, and there might need to be boundaries put in place, we cannot look at this person as an enemy. But we have to look at them as someone who. They're doing this because of brokenness inside of them. And I have to look at them with compassion. Yeah. I might still need to put healthy boundaries in place to let them know this behavior isn't acceptable. But I don't want to ever look at them like, you're my enemy I have to defeat. No, you're my. You're my family that I need to love and help find healing. And there's usually some brokenness in this situation that's leading to the broken behavior. All right, number seven.

All right, number seven. We have the separators, and Dave kind of touched on this earlier. And these are people that they constantly, you know, family members that constantly try to get you and your spouse away from each other. And again, it's a power play. It's about power. For some reason, they see, you know, your spouse and your marriage as a threat to them. And they always kind of want to see where they stand in their. In their relationship with you and want to somehow belittle your spouse in your marriage so they can feel like they have the upper hand. And again, you can't play that game. You got it? You got to see it for what it is and say, like, you know, why do you constantly want to get me alone? Let's bring my spouse alongside me, you know, not that you can't have time alone with your family. I mean, please don't misunderstand me in that. But this is, like, where. This is a constant pattern of constantly trying to, like, not take your spouse on the family vacation, like, not ever inviting them to family dinners, like, just where. Where they're constantly like, oh, he doesn't need to come. She doesn't need to come.

I mean, you might need to try to separate a spouse from another for a time if you see, like, actual abusive behavior, to pull them aside and say, listen, you know, you're. You're being abused, and I want to help you guys get the help that you need. We're not talking about putting your head in the sand for those issues, but like Ashley said, this is more about control in an unhealthy way.

Exactly. Definitely address unhealthy issues 100%.

Number nine. And I think. I think many of these kind of are rooted in the. In number nine. And that's that there's a real. Or eight, rather, number eight is the smotherers. And they're the ones that are just, you know, with good intention too much. Just want to be there all the time without kind of any respect to your boundaries, your autonomy as an individual or as a married couple or as a family. They just want. Want to be there all the time. And. And, you know, it's sweet on one hand, but then on the other hand, you got to say, like, you know, take some chill shots. Just give us a little bit of space.

Maybe have a schedule, like, especially with grandkids. I think this mothering dynamic comes into play sometimes, and it's with good intentions, but sometimes you just have to say, okay, these are the days of the week when, you know, come over or maybe text before you show up. Like, that might be helpful, you know, for sure.

Yeah. I mean, even when our kids move out, I'm going to say text before you come over, because I'm going to be naked all the time when they leave.

Oh, my God. I'm just telling them he has plans.

You better knock, because it's not your house anymore. So just.

Wow.

I want him to know we only have one.

Who's leaving? Guys, we have three more, so.

I know, but he's.

He's ready to go.

All right, number nine. And I think a lot of these are rooted really in this, and that's the Mentally ill. If there's a real chemical imbalance that someone is dealing with, you know, have compassion for them, but also help them get the help that they need so that they can be healthy. And then number 10, and this one's, you know, this one's a sad one, the ghosts. And this doesn't mean they've died. This means, like, they're alive, but they've chosen to be invisible from your life for whatever reason. And that can be a heartbreaking dynamic. And do your part to pursue a relationship there, if it's possible. Give you two verses before we wrap up. This one is a sobering verse about why God desires unity in marriage and the fact that if someone's working against unity, how big a deal it is to God. And this is kind of like a, wow, that's tough first. But it's because God cares so much about family and about unity. Titus, chapter 3, verse 10 says this. If people are causing divisions among you, give them a first and second warning. After that, have nothing more to do with them. For people like that have turned away from the truth, their own sins, condemn them. Now, this does not mean if you got a relative that's just like, picking fights, and you've had a couple incidents with him that you're like, all right, you're dead to me. I never have to talk to you again. Because the Bible's ultimate aim is always reconciliation. What this is saying is if there is a pattern, a consistent pattern of someone being divisive, you know, showing these behaviors after they've been shown that these behaviors are out of bounds, then you might have to put some physical separation there for a while and say, listen, out of respect for all of us and the fact that every time we interact, it's just making things worse. I need to take up some space to heal and to pray until we can come together and really have a productive conversation or meet together with a counselor or a mediator that can help us talk in a productive way. We were going through counseling early in our marriage. We were handed a book called boundaries by Drs. John Townsend and Henry Cloud. Twenty years later, that book is still as relevant as ever, and I think it can be really helpful. But one final verse, because this really shows the heart of God. This is what God wants for our families. Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other. For love covers over a multitude of sins. Families are places where everybody involved has sinned. Everybody involved is broken on some level. But love for each other, and again, not just the feeling of love. But the commitment of love is stronger than all that brokenness. And when we love God and love each other, then God does this work through love. That brings healing and it brings peace little by little. And that's the hope for all of us, because every family's got some drama. But God is bigger than all of the drama that we face, and he is for us. And so it starts with us. It starts with surrendering our own heart to Jesus, saying, lord, save me. Do a work in me. Root out all of the negative junk in me so that I can be healthy. Adopt me, Lord, into your family. That's my identity. That's my first family. Is Lord, with you? And now here in this world, in my home, in my family, God, let me be a peacemaker. Let me be the first to ask for forgiveness when I've blown it. Let me be the first to give forgiveness when someone has wronged me. And let me be a safe place. Not. Not for gossip, not for division, but God, for healing. And help me, God, work through me to do. Bring about healing in my family. And he wants to do that with every single one of you. He really, really does.

And I just want to say we're living proof, like, we've gone through nearly all of these dynamics we just described to you with people we love so dearly. And there were some dark nights where I. I just. I was like, God, is it even possible for us to have a healthy relationship with these people that I love so much but are causing so much strife in our life? And let me tell you, every time I cried out to the Lord, he would bring me a peace that surpass understanding. And he would give me enough. Enough strength for the next day and enough courage to face them if they were not, you know, respecting those boundaries. I was able to have that courage to talk to them because it takes courage, you guys. It's sometimes awkward conversations, but I remember in counseling and in our conversations and in our prayer, we just kept sticking to it and trusting that even though sometimes I couldn't see the change that I was hoping to see, that God knew the greater picture, that God was doing a miraculous work in the family members that we were trying to have a better relationship with. And I'm telling you, 22 years later, little by little, through time, we have a wonderful, loving, healthy relationship with those family members. And so I just want to give you hope, to let you know that it is possible. It is a process. But please, please, please don't lose hope. Know that God sees you and he sees the Greater picture. And just keep on praying for that heart of flesh that doesn't turn hard towards those people causing that harm. Stand strong in your boundaries and keep on knowing that God is doing a miraculous work. Let's pray. If you could stand with me, please.

If you're. If you're married or you're sitting. If you're here with family, would you hold hands with whatever family member. Yes. Is next to you? And if you're here not with family, know that we're a family.

We're all a family.

Yes. And you're part of this family. And we're so, so glad that you're here. Sweetie. Would you pray for us?

Absolutely, Lord. Thank you so much that we're in a church that is willing to talk about hard things, Lord, like family drama. We know it's near and dear to your heart because you created families. You love each and every one of us. You even love it. You love us even at our worst, Lord. And let us remember that all of us can be at our worst, that all of us can have those toxic traits that we just talked about. And I pray right now that those in this room and those watching online that. That we just all pray that you would search our heart, Lord, and reveal to us if we've been doing any of those toxic things. And let this week be the week that we address it, that we turn away from those behaviors and we go make amends with those that we have maybe bullied or that we have. Have done any of those things like being judgmental or being elitist, so that we can go address that with those people. People, and make amends and walk in your truth, Lord, towards peace in that relationship. I also want to pray if anybody had a family member in mind that is causing a lot of friction in their marriage and in their family, I pray that this week they can go address it, maybe even go see a Christian counselor and learn how they can put boundaries in place. I would even pray that, gosh, this would be the ultimate, that whoever. Whoever is really struggling in this area, that the whole family would go and get on the same page. That is the ultimate, Lord, that they can just surrender their heart to you and have that peace that surpasses understanding and really have so much respect and willingness to make this work, Lord, that they would agree to go. That's our prayer, Lord. And I just thank you so much for each and every person. I pray for those right now who have felt regret in their heart while we're talking about this, or maybe some shame or just some resentment, Lord, because that family member that they had issues with has maybe passed on. And I know that can be a really complicated dynamic. But we know that you are a God of peace. You don't want us to stay in shame or regret. Lord, I pray that those people experiencing that surrender it to you and know that you are with them and you will bring them peace. Lord, we love you. Lord, we thank you for today. Bless all these families. We pray for healthy, multi generational families. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.

Amen. Amen. Thank you, Lord, for your goodness. Hey, guys, do me a favor. This week, buy your dad something nice. If your dad's living, spoil him this week and bring him here next Sunday for Father's Day. We got great things planned for you guys. Have a great week.

Love you.

We'll see you soon.