Help! My Spouse is Lying | The Naked Marriage Podcast | Dave & Ashley Willis

Hey there and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we are talking about a really important topic today that Dave is going to tell you about in just a minute. But before we get there, I want to share one of our most recent reviews. We are so appreciative when you take the time to leave us a five star review and let us know why you like the podcast. It just not only is wind in our sails, but it really is the way that it lets other people know about the Naked Marriage podcast. So if you love this podcast, if you want to help other people have stronger marriages, please go and consider leaving a review on the Apple Podcasts app. We would so greatly appreciate it. Today's review is from Smokin. Fox is their name. They gave us five star. A five star review and it says number one recommendation. And this is what they had to say. I listen to a lot of podcasts. Whenever people ask for recommendations, this one is always at the top of my list. Dave and Ashley consistently bring humor, wisdom and practicality to a variety of topics. I love their biblical focus for talking all things marriage. The tidbits they've shared about parenting make me mega excited for their coming soon parenting podcast, which is going to be called Parenting Uncovered. Keep the great content coming. Xo. Thank you, Dave and Ashley, for your sage advice, humility and willingness to tackle tough topics. You are both so tactful and relatable. Wow, that was so nice. Thank you so much.

Thank you. That is. That's wind in our sails. Like Ashley.

It is wind in our sails.

It's so encouraging. And also, like Ashley said, it does help people discover the podcast.

Yes, it really does.

That's one of the ways you can help when you share an episode on social media, you text an episode to a friend or you simply leave a review. It helps get the word out that these conversations are ones that should not be missed. Not because Ashley and I have it all figured out, but because we're all on this journey together of growing in our faith and in our marriages. And hopefully this community has been an encouragement to you. I know you guys have been an encouragement to us. So we are in. We're kind of talking about help. My spouse is certain things right now. All right. And so today is a tough one.

It is.

My spouse is lying. And trust is the foundation of a marriage. And we say that the depth of your honesty will determine the depth of your intimacy. And if there's a breakdown in honesty, then there's a breakdown in intimacy. But what do you do when you have a spouse who's just lying? And maybe it's not about huge things like concealing an affair, but maybe it's just about subtle things, but that's still chipping away at the trust in your marriage. What do you do with that?

Let me tell you, I was actually doing some research on lying and kind of, why does this continue to be a problem? Like, don't we all agree that lying is bad? You know, especially as Christian people? Right.

Yeah.

But I was reading an article, and this is@bestlifeonline.com and it talked about how they've done some studies on this, and they're finding, based on these studies that increasingly couples who know and who agree. Okay, these couples have agreed that trust is essential and honesty is essential in having a strong marriage. But they said there's an increasing trend of couples kind of justifying lying. Okay, and here's what happened. It said even those who claim to value honesty. When they were surveyed in 2016, over 1,000 US adults were surveyed by an organization called Ipsos, and they found that Americans have become increasingly okay with lying. According to that survey, in 2016, it said 64% of respondents reported that they think lying is sometimes justified. Now, for comparison, this same company did a survey with the same amount of people in 2006. And in 2006, only 42% said lying is sometimes justified. So you're talking over 20% leap in those who believe that lying is sometimes justified. And they said they're still seeing this uptick in people in couples, the couples that they're surveying, saying, like, yeah, lying is wrong. But, you know, I mean, some things aren't considered lying. Like, sometimes it's justified. And they said that really this is negatively impacting relationships. And so I thought that was really interesting. Which, I mean, of course, but I think that even though human nature is to justify whatever we want. Right. I think that it's a slippery slope because there's. And we've. We've, you know, met with couples where they're like, well, it's just a little lie. Like, people are like, it's a white lie, whatever that. I don't know why they say white lie, but it essentially means little lie, like a harmless lie.

No such thing.

But there's really no such thing. There really isn't.

No, it's. It's not. It's like it's just a little bit of poison in your Kool Aid. It's not a lot of poison, but any amount of poison should not be poisoned.

It's not good for you, it's not good for you.

And marriage. Any amount of lying has no place in marriage, right? And so, guys, if there is something that you are keeping from your spouse, you're being intentionally dishonest or intentionally secretive about, then you are sabotaging your marriage. You are putting a wedge between you and your spouse, and you've got to get that thing out in the open.

You do. And the Bible has a lot to say about this. In Leviticus 19:11, it says this. You know, you shall not steal, you shall not deal falsely, and you shall not lie to one another. In Ephesians 4. 25, the apostle Paul said this. Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor. For we are members one of another, meaning, like we're part of the same body, the church, the body of believers. In Colossians 3. 9, it says, do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices, essentially saying, you know, when we're in Christ, we know better. Like those who don't know Christ yet and they're just of the world right now, they don't. Maybe not. Maybe they don't know how damaging lying is. But as believers and as those who should be reading the Bible and should have knowledge of the Bible, we know that it's very clear that lying is not of God.

Right. It's one of the most consistent themes in Scripture.

I mean, I could keep on going. There's a ton here.

Well, I mean, the list of proverbs, the things that God hates.

Absolutely.

Really? Two of the seven are lying. Like, one of them is like dishonest witness, and two is somebody who lies. It's like one he hates so much that he listed it twice in two different ways. And again, all through Scripture, telling the truth, Jesus was the embodiment, is the embodiment of truth, the way, the truth and the life. So there's no falsehood in him. There should be no falsehood in us as his followers. And in marriage, if we're called to love each other the way Christ loves his church, he is always honest with us. He is always truth with us. We have to be that with each other. We have to. And when we're not, we've got to own it. We've got to say, I was wrong. I'm sorry I was. It was wrong of me to hide that from you. Even if our intentions were good. I mean, I think sometimes we might hide something from a spouse because we think, well, this will just hurt them or I'll just deal with this on my own. And you think you're protecting them by not telling them. And guys, that's wrong, right? I mean, I've got a friend who confessed to me that he'd had in a really vulnerable time in their marriage years ago. He'd had several short term affairs and never confessed this to his wife.

She didn't know and feels like that he shouldn't have to. I mean, essentially.

And I said, buddy, you gotta tell her. I said, you've got to. She has a right to know. He said, what if she leaves me? And I'm like, well, that's, that's her choice. But if she's staying with you, she's staying under false pretense. Right now what you have to do is just, you have to tell her because that's the way God designed marriage. We have to confess. We've got to bring it out in the open. And he convinced himself that no, he was just going to punish himself by carrying this, which really is a cowardly way to convince yourself that you're being noble. Because it would be a hard conversation, a devastating conversation. And I love my friend, though just this disagreement is kind of, I think, caused us to fall out of touch. Not because I don't want to be his friend, it just sort of created some awkwardness there that maybe neither of us knew what to do with. But.

Well, I think honestly it's because you as a very close friend to him, okay, we spent many years with these people and love them dearly. You were telling him the truth in love. And not only are we friends with him, but also his wife and you as being that friend to both of them, you're like, this is so hurtful. And again, you know, we love these people, but it's just, it's just so hard because, I mean, marriage is, gosh, our heart and our passion. And we know the damage that is done. The longer you wait to confess something like that, like it is, and the truth, you guys, it always comes out. And if you are the one who broke those vows, who did something to, you know, hurt your spouse, you need to get ahead of this and tell them you need to own up to it because it's still going to be a hard conversation. But the sooner you can own up to it and bring them into that picture and not have secrets between you, the more that God can do his healing. But I Think the longer that you harbor those lies, and you may tell yourself, oh, it's my cross to bear. You're not. That's not how God wants us to deal with things. He says, bring it to the cross, right? First, confess it to the Lord. He already knows anyway, but he wants us to bring it to him. Secondly, as a married person, you have to tell your spouse, and really, you're really presenting them as a fool that they. I mean, essentially you're hanging them out there as a fool. I mean, there's Bible verses about this. You know, knowing all this that, you know, telling a friend, and I think he also told his parents, and then not being willing to tell her, it's cruel. I mean, honestly, it's even more hurtful than the act of infidelity itself. It's a double whammy because it's an ongoing. It's ongoing, ongoing deceit.

Ongoing deceit, deceit. But really, a lot of what we talked about so far is why you shouldn't lie. And hopefully conviction for the person who's.

You can tell we're pretty passionate about this.

But what about really, what we've titled this episode, the Person who's Not Lying. But Help.

My Spouse is Lying, and they know their spouse is lying. And I want to speak to this. Like, we years ago had some other dear friends of ours, and there wasn't infidelity that had happened. But I remember this friend saying, the wife, you know, was saying, you know, there's not been. He's not been unfaithful to me, but my husband keeps doing these little, like, having these little lies, and I'll catch him in it, and I'll confront him in it, and yet he still keeps doing it. He'll even say he's sorry, but then he'll still keep doing it. And I remember all of this came to a head one day and just over time of these keeping on doing these lies, even though she had brought it to his attention, she caught him, you know, in the acts sometimes, like, that is not the truth. Like, even little about little things. She's like, it would be like insignificant things where he wouldn't fully tell the truth. And so it made her doubt everything he told her. And so eventually they ended up in Christian counseling, marriage counseling, and they really had to work through this. And what they found in the counseling, though, is that her husband had been one who started telling little lies, you know, in quotation marks as a child. And his parents just never really. Never really pointed it out. And he kind of it was kind of titillating, for lack of a better word, whenever he would get away with telling these little lies. And so throughout all these relationships in his life, not just romantic, but with friends, with his family, he just kept on having these little lies. And in some way it was kind of this little game that he was winning in his mind of fooling people. And he's not an evil person. Like, we know these people, Godly loving people.

He does a lot and ongoing volunteers, helps out people, is generous. But this, this was just that, that, that spark, that area for him that he hadn't let God fully deal with. And all of us, if we're not careful, can have those areas of like, God, I'm going to give you everything, but not this, this little part is.

Like, it's not a big deal. What's it really hurting? Yeah, my wife is mad, but I'm not. It's not like I'm cheating on her. Like, we have this varying degrees of sin.

Yeah, this hierarchy of sin. No, I'm mild. But really all sin breaks God's heart.

And hurts people and it was really hurting our friends. And so, you know, through the process of counseling, he really received, you know, he was able to surrender this, fully surrender this to the Lord and realized how much damage this has caused his relationships and especially his marriage. And one thing that really moved him was that he, his counselor really, really pressed him on this. The counselor was like, you know, your kids, your kids have caught you in some of these lies. And what are you teaching them? Are you teaching them it's okay to lie? Like, because that's what they're going to think. They're going to think, well, dad tells little lies all the time, so why shouldn't I? You know? And so that really, really convicted him. That really convicted him. And thankfully he was able to process some of those things from, from that really habit he had gotten into. And let me tell you, all they. This was probably a decade ago, A decade ago this was all happening. They're working through that together, you know, both personally and together with the lying issues they, they are in. I mean, their marriage has never been better. Like, they're stronger for it. But I know my friend, the wife of this couple who are friends, you know, she's always quick to talk about that. Like, you know, don't. Just don't let the enemy get a foothold by having these little lies to each other. Like, it's so damaging. It really is.

Yeah, it is so damaging. And so if your spouse is dealing with that, or if you're dealing with that, then you know, you've got to. You've got to confront the issue. If you're the one that's lying, you've got to confront that issue in yourself and you've got to bring it out into the light. If your spouse is the one doing it, then you need to confront them and say, listen, you know, your dishonesty, even, even if you've never cheated on me, even if you haven't done those things, that this is an act of infidelity. Infidelity does not mean adultery. They're two different words. Infidelity means broken fidelity, broken trust. And every time you lie, by very the definition of the word, you are committing infidelity. You're breaking the trust in your marriage. And trust is the backbone of the marriage. It's the foundation of the marriage. And you got to work to replace what you've, you know. Jimmy Evans, our ministries founder, said trust is built in drops and lost in buckets. Meaning you got to be consistent to rebuild trust, consistently telling the truth. And with every lie, you dump out a bucket that you've been building up over time. And so if you've dumped out a bunch of buckets of trust, it's time for you to commit to one drop at a time. I want to rebuild the trust that I've broken. And don't expect your spouse to fully trust you right away because you cannot build trust based on what you say you're going to do or what you promised to do. You can only build trust based on what you actually do and do consistently over a long period of time. And so what you can do today, though, is commit to that process and saying, I'm going to rebuild the trust that I broke. I'm going to earn your trust back. And I don't expect you to trust me based on that promise or guarantee. But I'm making that promise to myself, to you, and to God. And from now on, I'm going to live differently. I'm going to be transparent. There's going to be no secrets, no hidden passwords on my phone, no hidden conversations, no hidden money. Everything is going to be out in the open because that's what a naked marriage is. That's the way God designed marriage. And if I ever step out of bounds in any area, I'm going to confess it. I'm not going to wait to get caught. I'm going to tell you. And if you'll commit to that and you'll stay on that path, then you can rebuild your spouse's trust. But if you keep playing with fire, if you keep living in the darkness, you're going to get burned. You're going to hurt your spouse, maybe, maybe hurt them to the point of them not being able to trust you at all and divorce happening. And we don't want that for you. We want you to get the help you need. So if you're stuck and you don't know how to break out of that cycle, or if you feel like I want to trust my spouse, but I'm having a hard time moving past what's happened previously, talk to a counselor. Like Ashley said earlier, talk to someone here on our team at XO. Go to xomarriage.com help we have an amazing team of trained mediators who are skilled and gifted and trained to help you navigate this process and rebuild the trust that's been broken.

Definitely. And I would say, too, like, just to the person who. And the many people who've written us questions like these, like, help, my spouse is lying to me. Like, I know they are. Maybe the spouse is denying, denying, denying. You know, I would say you have to go to them. Like, the first step is you go to them and say, listen, I know for a fact you're lying. And, and you know, and because you keep on lying about these little things, I feel like you're also lying in big things. And every time I catch you in a lie, I'm losing these buckets of trust that Dave and Ashley have talked about. And I don't want to feel that way. I want to trust you. I want to give you a chance for me to trust you. You know, and so what we had to do first is, especially if our spouse is repentant, which hopefully they are, we need to forgive swiftly. But then, you know, we give that forgiveness. That means we're surrendering it to God. It doesn't mean we're saying what you did didn't matter, that you didn't hurt me, me. We're not saying that. You know, you need to say, like, you're hurting me when you. When you tell me these lies, but I'm trusting that God is going to help you to stop doing this, this toxic behavior. And then, you know, as. As their spouse, in order to support them, we give them chances to show that they're trustworthy. And that means that we don't hold this over their head. We do hold them accountable. You know, if we see again that they're not being trustworthy, we need to hold them accountable. But to do it in a really loving way. And also in times like this when our spouse is trying to rebuild our we need to point out every little thing they're doing that shows us they're trustworthy. Like for example, thank you so much that you showed up when you said you would show up because, you know, you used to show up an hour later than I know it takes you to get home from work. And my mind is racing and thinking you're all these other places because in the past, you know, you wouldn't really tell me. And so the fact that you're coming home when you said you would come home, it just means the world to me.

Yeah. Thank you.

Or thank you so much for answering your phone when I called and I didn't have my mind go to all these places thinking that you were trying to hide what you were doing from me. Thank you for not turning off the location on your Life360 app. Thank you for bringing me in on the email that you had to have to a female co worker to that female volunteer at church. Like, you know, point out all those ways that they're showing. I'm not trying to hide anything from you. And I'm telling you that praised behavior becomes repeated behavior. And it also helps our spouse know I'm believing in you. Like, I know that God is rooting for you and he wants you to chart a new path here and to do the right thing. But I see the good in you and it's amazing to know that your spouse not only forgives you, but also is giving you that chance.

Yeah, it is. And you being the one to extend grace, it really can help. Help bring out the best in your spouse.

Right?

And so guys, listen, we could talk about this all day, but take to heart some of those things we've said. Another thing that could help is maybe coming to one of our exomarriage conferences. It's a weekend, usually a Friday night, Saturday morning, that could make a huge difference in your marriage in a short amount of time. And we would love to meet you in person as well. So go to xomarriage.com conferences and you can get the full lineup of where we're going to be. The biggest event of the year is always the weekend right before Valentine's Day, and that's going to be at Fellowship Church in Grapevine, Texas. This year. It's going to be a packed house, great event, and we would love to see you there. God bless. Guys, thanks so much for tuning in. We look forward to seeing you next time.

Bye, guys.