How To Have The Sex Talk | Parenting Uncovered | Dave & Ashley Willis

Foreign. Hello and welcome back to Parenting Uncovered. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and we are going to be talking about an important topic today, but one that based on the ages of your kids. If you're listening in the car with your children, you may or may not want them to hear. So we're going to be talking about sex.

That's right. S E X, as my parents referred to it until I was like 16 years old. And I'm like, guys, I can spell. I know what you're spelling. So we're going to talk about it. So we've been kind of in this little mini series to the start of this podcast of teaching your kids these important lessons. We started out teaching your kids to love Jesus, which is foundational for everything. Teaching your kids about respect. Last week and today, teaching your kids about sex. In a world that is so confused around this issue of sex and always stick around to the end. We end every episode the same. Ashley has a fascinating fact about parenting, which I geek out on because she has great facts and I have a dad joke. So be ready, be ready, be ready. So teaching your kids about sex. People ask us, what's the right age to have the talk? And what we say is, it's not about having the talk. It's about having ongoing talks, ongoing conversations, really, the whole time you're a parent. And it's obviously age specific. And when they're really young, those conversations can start with just acknowledging and celebrating the fact that God made them a boy or a girl. And that that's God's design. Oh, it's so cool. God made you a girl, and that's wonderful. And girls are awesome. God made you a boy, that's wonderful. Boys are awesome. In a world that's so confused, just about, do boys and girls even exist? Which is just silly. I mean, I can't, you know, if you Google, try this. I mean, if you google, can men menstruate? The first thing that pops up is saying, yes. Menstruation is just something that, that, that somebody's do. It doesn't make you a man or a woman. And it's the most woke, unscientific, convoluted thing. And I'm like, man, that's the world our kids are growing up in.

It's confusing.

It's so confusing. And so just to cover some basics, females are the ones who menstruate and boys do not. It's crazy that we have to clarify that, but.

But we just Google gets it wrong just in case.

So celebrating femininity and masculinity from a very young age in an age specific way. That's where it starts. And then as they get a little bit older, you start talking about changes in bodies, some differences in boys and girls as they get a little bit older. After that, you start talking about kind of the biological functions of, you know, where babies come from. I think it's important to use real words. You know, these parents that are afraid to say penis or vagina and they've got all these weird code words like oh, you're hoo hoo and you're haha. I mean it's like, what are you talking about?

And that was, I think that's generational with us because like back in the day it wasn't like both of us grew up where at first our parents did not use the anatomically correct term. And I do think that that was. I mean, we're in our 40s. I think that was just a product of the 80s kids, maybe. And I do think that that narrative is shifting. But even if you've had any kind of like, thought, should I give, you know, it a nickname? Here's why you should not. Okay? There is actual science and like research that's been done. I guess research is a better term. There's been some research that's been done about kids basically are, are more likely to be preyed upon for like sexual abuse and things like that if they do not know the actual terms of their body parts. Okay. And I know that's like a big like whoa. You know, but it's because if it has a little nickname, these predators can be playful in the way they talk about these things. And it basically they can play around that with the kids. Like it's just this playful thing and I'm not doing anything wrong. And so really we want to educate our kids on first of all, what the body parts are actually called. And secondly, that they have license, okay, over their bodies and that this is, you know, the body that God gave them and they are meant to protect their bodies. And one thing we've been so very just open about in our house is we call it the right name, but we also say, you know, listen, you don't let anyone touch you in your private areas, you know, in your vagina, on your penis, or even, you know, the, the sensitive areas of your body. No one should be touching you there, right?

And if they do, tell us, and.

If they do, please tell us, don't stay in shame.

Because a lot of abuse victims, you know, they feel like the shame. Maybe I invited this. Maybe I did something wrong. I have to keep this a secret, right?

Yes.

But to just take all that, that shame away and say, you gotta tell us, come to us, whatever happened, whatever, we're gonna. We're gonna help protect you and take care of it. It's not your fault if something like that ever. It's not your fault, but we wanna make sure you're protected, so come to us.

Exactly. But we also say, you can tell them, no, I don't like that. That doesn't feel good. And then try to get away from that situation. And we say, don't let. And this is whether or not that person is a child or an adult, a stranger or a family member, somebody you know a lot. Okay. It doesn't matter who that person is or what age they are. You. You know, you need to protect your private areas. And no one should be touching those areas. Okay.

Yeah.

And we also say, too, you. You shouldn't be going and touching someone else, whether an adult or a child, because, you know, there are times when kids are curious. And so we just. We don't try to, like, vilify it like it's some horrible thing, but just like that. These are private areas that God gave you, and we're meant to. Those are areas that need to be protected.

And not a dirty thing, but just not dirty things. Some people overcompensate.

They're special.

Yeah, they're special. That's it. They overcompensate. Like, oh, no, no, no. It's almost like kids feel that it's dirty or you can't ever talk about it, but no. Celebrate the fact that they got a penis or a vagina. That's. That's a gift from God. And that's.

It's a special place, but it's very private that no one else needs to have access to.

Right, of course.

Really, you know, until. Until you get married one day, ultimately, hopefully. And so it's. Yeah, I mean, I know that's for some of you listening to this and watching, you're like, wow, they're really going there right out of the gate. But I know that all of us, we want our kids to be protected. We want them to understand that we need to take care of our bodies in many ways. You know, I mean, not just when it comes to our sexuality or things like that, but I think it's important for kids from very, very, very early to understand they have license, that they. That they are the gatekeepers, you know, as their parents, obviously, at Very young ages. We are those gatekeepers. But I think it's really important that we teach them as young as they can to know they have choices. They can say no and they can protect themselves and that we're there to protect them as well. And so I want to say this too. I. I think that a lot of times when we start having, like Dave said, it's not just one talk that we have about sex, but really it's multiple talks at age appropriate levels throughout their childhood. But I think that probably, like, what time do you think we actually, I know that for most of us, like when puberty, like when we know puberty is getting ready to happen, we usually start having those talks. Because a lot of school systems, if your kids are in school, whether public or private or maybe in your homeschool curriculum, there's usually a time when you talk about, you know, you start talking more about what's gonna happen in puberty so that nobody's taken by surprise. But ultimately it's better if we don't leave it up to a school system that we as parents get ahead of it before that happens. Right. And so I know for us in our school system, they have that movie, you know, one for boys, one for girls, usually around fifth grade. I know when I was growing up, it was fourth grade. So it's probably. It varies wherever you are in the world. But I know that we really wanted to get ahead of that. And so we started these talks, I would say, even talking about puberty and how the body's gonna change. Probably around third or fourth grade, wouldn't you say, sweetie? With each of our boys.

Yeah. Yeah.

And just celebrating the fact that that is going to happen. And I know that it's important that we don't dread that, that we don't look at it like, oh, no, you're not a baby anymore and you're gonna have all this hardship and, you know, like, not this thing that they dread, but a thing they look forward to.

And so you're becoming a man.

Yeah. You're becoming a woman.

You get some deodorant now. This is awesome.

Yeah, I just actually, speaking of that, I just actually bought a stick of deodorant for my son, our son Chandler, who's a sixth grader. I was talking to a friend of mine who also happens to do my hair. Brittany. Shout out to Brittany. I know she listens. She was saying how her daughter was at that point, too. She was like, it's deodorant time. Because all of a sudden, when they're entering into puberty. They start having some smells because there's all the hormones and different things. And so even if they're, you know, having good hygiene which I know for a fact this little girl, you know, absolutely does. It's just that her body's changing. And so she was like, I'm telling her it's deodorant time. And I was like, oh, yeah. That's really, you know, Chandler. It's time too. So I went to him and I was like, here is some Old Spice. Like, the young version of Old Spice deodorant which all of our boys have enjoyed, including you. And I was like, it's time, Chandler. And it was like, I could see on his face that he was simultaneously excited and also a little bit like, oh, no. Another, like, regimen that I need to keep track of. That's just his mind, though, because he's such a list guy. Like, he's like, okay, add this to the list. You know? But I could see a little twinkle in his eye. Like, man, this is one step towards manhood.

That's right. Yeah.

And so we celebrate it. Or like, when they get their first pube. I know this sounds weird. Obviously, we don't want to see that.

Yeah. You know, we don't see it.

But we tell them, though, if you get one, don't feel scared by it. Don't feel ashamed. Be excited. You know, there's people out in the. Hey, guys, thanks for listening out in exopress. But we. Hey, I'm waving at him.

Talking about pubes.

Talking about pubes.

Talking about this.

That's right. But, you know, if you get, like, we want our boys. And I would even think with girls to be excited that their body is changing. This is nothing to be ashamed of or scared of. You know, you're growing up.

Yes. And that is something to celebrate. And then as they get a little bit older, I would say, like, middle school I think it's time to start talking very specifically about sex. About just some of the counterfeits that are out there. They're likely. No matter what we do to protect them your kids are likely to be exposed to some pornographic images whether they're looking for it or not. Just from other kids. Other kids who have a phone. Here, look at this. We need to tell our kids, listen, you've got to be mindful. You're going to hear some stuff. You might even see some stuff that is not the way God intended for it to work. But ultimately, sex is a gift. It is a Beautiful gift designed for marriage, between a husband and a wife for life. And the world is going to throw you a whole bunch of different broken ideas about what sex is and how it's to be used and just want you to know that God's the One who made it. He's the One who defines it, and he has got a perfect plan for it. And this is a gift that one day he wants you to be able to unwrap with your spouse and enjoy for the rest of your life within that beautiful gift of marriage. But when we use sex in any way outside of marriage, it always ends up hurting people. Ashley described it to a group of middle schoolers when she was teaching as fire imagery. Why don't you tell us about that?

And I know I didn't certainly. I certainly didn't come up with this. I believe I probably heard it probably at one of the many youth events that I either attended or us as youth leaders attended all those years ago. But they tasked me because I was the middle school science teacher at the Christian school where I taught at the time. They were like, you need to teach these sixth graders, like, basic level, like, about sex. And so I was like, okay. And I remember the fireplace imagery. And it's this. It's that, you know, sex, like Dave had said, you know, it's a beautiful gift from God. It's something that brings a husband and wife together. Mind, body, soul, something to be celebrated that God made within the covenant of marriage. And I would describe, you know, sex as. As marriage, first of all, being the fireplace, like in a home. A fireplace is something that, you know, it is awesome to have in your home. And if sex is the fire within the fireplace, we know when that fire stays within the fireplace. So sex being part of marriage, being an important part of marriage that's only supposed to be within marriage and not outside of marriage. When it's in the fireplace, it brings warmth to the home. People enjoy it. It's something that is comforting, you know, but if it goes outside the fireplace, it can cause hurt.

Yeah. Devastation.

It can burn people and even devastate. And this isn't, again, to shame, because as your kids get older and as they start dating and maybe they make some mistakes like all of us do, we certainly don't want there to be shame attached to sex. You know, that's something that all those years ago when we were going through youth group, I think unintentionally was perpetuated by purity culture. And so I don't think it was all bad. You Know, but I think. I think the intentions were wonderful, but I think that the execution was just really extreme. And so we definitely, you know, want to be careful not to attach shame to sex or even shame to our bodies, but we do need to look at it like a gift. And again, we want it to be this beautiful fire that is just burning bright within the fireplace. The. The covenant of marriage. And when I was teaching the sixth graders, I had this little boy raised his hand. They're really, you know, obviously they know we're talking about sex, and we talked about. We had to talk about our bodies and all that sort of thing, too. But I remember this little boy at the end, I was like, any questions? You know, we got to the end of the lesson, and this. This little sixth grade boy raised his hand and he said, Mrs. Willis, he said, so you're telling me, you know, when you're married and, you know, the marriage is your fireplace. He goes, you want to keep that fire burning, right? And I was like, you got it. Like, this kid gets it. And I said, yes, you want to keep it burning bright because sex is a gift that is supposed to be enjoyed, supposed to be prioritized in marriage, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. It is something that. That is to be celebrated. It's a, you know, it's a holy act when it's within marriage, you know.

Absolutely.

And so I think that, you know, the kids, I thought, man, I never thought I would be in this position to teach sixth graders, much less all of you, about sex. But, hey, you know, that middle school again, we like to, like we say on the Naked Marriage podcast, you are. Oh, goodness. We like to talk about the awkward, I guess. But I think that all of us as parents, sometimes we dread these talks. And I was one of those, like, back in the day when we first had to have the talk with Cooper, you know, you know, the. One of many talks. I remember being nervous about it. And Dave, you know, being man to man, you've had a lot of these, like, from a man to a man. But I still. I mean, I will still talk to them about these things, too, but I know that I remember when I think our kids were maybe fifth grade, you took them on like, a little. You would take them on like a little road trip. And There were these CDs at the time. Now they're digital. I'm sure they're just, you know, on a website. But there is a product. They may have changed the name, but at the time it was called Passport to Purity. I think they've since changed the name because some of the negative connotations with Purity Culture. But it actually is an excellent resource.

Yeah, it was really good.

By family life, you can go online and get it. Even if you put in Passport to Purity in Amazon, it'll give you the right resource. And there's also something called Passport to Identity for kids who are a bit older. But you would go through those CDs and listen with the kids and of course they're nervous and they're kind of.

Like, oh, gosh, you know, there's some awkward moments.

But then you would talk about it.

But it was really well done and it sparked some great conversations. And that's really throughout all your kids childhood. What you're wanting to do is develop a kind of sense of trust and accessibility with them where they feel like they can talk to you about anything. And that's the win. That's the win. And then when you're taking advantage of that for good things to help them learn the right lessons, when they're talking to you about anything, you don't want to be so passive or dismissive that it's just like, yeah, whatever. Whatever you want to do is fine. You know, we just celebrate that because that's kind of the way the world does. But no, we've got standards. God has standards. We love you too much to let you go down a path that's going to cause you a lot of baggage. Something I tell our kids, and remind myself too, is you never want to trade temporary pleasure for permanent regret. Meaning if you find yourself in a moment where you could do something that feels good in the moment. Yeah, that's tempting. But why would you do something that feels good in a moment only to have baggage that could last permanently or regret that last permanently? Now I'll say also, there's grace. I don't mean that at all to bring this kind of shame. Like you're defined by one moment. Because the Bible says, therefore anyone who's in Christ is a new creation. The old is gone, the new has come. And in our book, the Counterfeit Climax, which is more for adults than kids, talking all about kind of the broken messages around sex and how to really work past baggage and things like pornography, which is part of my story, and find healing and hope, we focus on that, that, listen, you can be set free. You don't have to ever look at yourself as damaged goods or look at your spouse's damaged goods because of what Jesus has done on the cross. You're set Free made new in him. But still there's just baggage that comes with. With. With sex outside of marriage. And we want to protect ourselves and protect our kids from that.

We do. And I'm so sorry to interrupt you, sweetie.

Oh, you're fine.

I was going to say baggage, I think for some people is a hard term because they themselves have baggage. All of us deal with different kinds of baggage. But if you want to, if that's a hard term for you to accept when it comes to your children, I would say there are natural consequences that often later on, if not dealt with, become baggage in our lives. And so we need to realize that, yes, there is grace when we make mistakes. Thank God as Christians, when we come to the Lord and we repent and we surrender it to Him. He forgives us and he helps us to turn. Repentance is turning the other way and then trying again to get it right. But there are still natural consequences. We live in a world where there is order. You know, there are. I know it feels like the world's not in order, but the way that God spun the world into motion is there are natural consequences that we will have to face. What are some of those natural consequences? And you'll want to discuss this with your kids, you know, when they're old enough to understand this is. Some of the natural consequences is, you know, it's heartbreak. It's different kind of feelings of regret. It's, you know, maybe things going further than we ever expected them to go. It's maybe putting ourselves in situations that we didn't realize could go into danger zones that we didn't realize were possible, and then having to live with that. And not that it was our fault per se if somebody preyed on us, but, like, just the fact that we have that hurt now. And so we just want to make sure not to scare them, but just to be real with our kids and say, like, there are real natural consequences whether we brought them on ourselves or not. So we just need to be so careful with the gift of sex and really, just really make sure that we're praying through this time. You know, I know a lot of parents will ask us this question. They'll say, I totally agree with all this. I agree sex is a gift. But when I'm talking to my kids about it, or at least trying to, I'm so scared they're gonna ask me questions that I don't wanna answer because I didn't get this. Right.

Yeah.

And I get that you guys, like, every single one of us. I Mean, because we're imperfect. Even if you waited to have sex until marriage, I think that we have to some level either some shame attached to sex or some baggage or misunderstandings or something, hangups. And so, like, we can all relate to that. And I would just tell, if that, if that's you, if you've had that question this whole time we're talking, I just want to tell you, first and foremost, remember that you are a new creation in Christ, that God doesn't look at you as this damaged person who, you know, just got it all wrong. He knows us. He knows our innermost being. He gets it. And when we, you know, as Christians, because we bring it to Christ because he sent his son to die for us, we're free from that. But with that, I would say at an age appropriate level. Like, for example, you know, I remember with our older boys in particular, there came a point where we really had to talk to them about just pornography and how rampant it is and just to watch out for these things and to completely, you know, don't get caught in that trap. Okay. And you, you had to share with them your testimony.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, you had.

To be really honest about it.

Our credibility with her kids doesn't come from being perfect.

Right.

Because they know we're not perfect. It comes from being authentic and honest. And so if you've made mistakes like all of us have in different levels in an age appropriate way, talk about that. Like with me, pornography, Listen, I made that mistake. I fell into that. It really damaged me. I want to protect you from that damage that I've experienced. And I explain kind of some of the reasons why it causes so much damage. I made mistakes in relationships that I regret. I think that just being able to, in an age appropriate way, own up to some of that and say, listen, I just want to protect you from the pain that that causes, I think that they lean in even more. So don't be afraid of those conversations as your kids get older and start asking more specific questions. We've got some resources to help. We mentioned that Counterfeit Climax book. I think even though that's a book for adults, I think the lessons in it could help you have some verbiage to be able to have these conversations for those with boys, which that's kind of the experience we come from is we've got four boys. I wrote a book specifically about talking to boys about sex, and it's called Raising Boys who Respect Girls.

And it's an excellent resource.

Well, thank you.

Thank you very Honest.

Very honest. Yeah. And I think that that could be helpful if you're raising boys. There are other great resources out there for girls, but I left the writing of those to people who have the actual experience. So check those out, guys. And we so appreciate you. Before we wrap up this episode, we end every episode with a fascinating fact from Ashley.

That's right.

And a dad joke from Dave. Since we've been talking about sex, I only have one dad joke that has kind of a sex theme.

Well, innuendo. It'll probably go over your kids heads, but. But just in case it doesn't, Right? Maybe don't let him hear this one. Depending on the age. I don't know.

So that's the one I have to tell this time.

Okay.

So did you hear about the battery that got married to the bag of chips?

I didn't.

Well, on their wedding night, he looked at her and said, I'm ever ready if you're free to lay.

Oh, dad jokes. Okay. And that was kind of a boy joke. See, I live in this world all the time and sometimes I don't get them. Like, sometimes I'm like, what? And the boys are like, mom, come on, come on, this is funny. And I'm like, they'll show her these.

Memes and they'll laugh.

All right, so for my fascinating fact today, this is from Smithsonian mag.com and it says this. YouTube videos of beastly moms abound. You can find so many on the Internet. And it says you can find one from a mother moose charging grizzly bears to a mountain lion mama swatting at a terrified jogger who stumbled upon her cubs. Scientists have also studied maternal aggression in slightly less formidable animals, such as ground squirrels who ferociously defend their youngsters. Let me find where I was by kicking gravel at rattlesnakes. Researchers played the sounds of fake rattlesnakes and found that squirrel moms compared to non mothers and males were especially reactive to the ominous rattling. The squirrel moms with the youngest babies took extra risks to protect their newborns in a second experiment. So basically that's saying that that whole mama aggression, mama bear is what we say.

It's real.

I mean, it is real. Like I always like to say, like I am a people pleaser by nature. Trying to be. I'm a recovering people pleaser. Cause I'm trying to come out of that. I want to be God pleaser. Right? But my whole life I'm one. I don't like to rock the boat. I want everybody to be happy. But if you mess with our kids. If you hurt my boys, okay, I will cut you. And I will be a mama bear that you've never seen, and you won't even believe it. Okay? And so evidently, I'm like the mama squirrels and all you mamas out there, I know you agree with me. Mama squirrels come at me. Come at me and my family. Come at my family.

She will cut you.

I will. Yes. Like, it will get ugly. So. And I feel that. Not to say I would actually think.

No, no, it's a God given instance, but it is.

It's like. And it's across the animal kingdom, so I just wanted to share that.

And the mama kingdom, the mama human.

Kingdom, the mama human kingdom, it's real. And I think that, you know, if you've ever had someone make fun of your kid or, or just be manipulative to your kid, we get that. We get that. Just, it's something inside of us that is like, oh, no, you. You didn't go there. Okay. Because I can't have you do that to my baby. Okay? So, yeah, I thought that was fascinating.

I love it. This was a great conversation. Guys, we want to keep this conversation going. Reach out to us on Instagram. We're aveandashleywillis on Instagram. Let us know your thoughts on this topic or really any topic. We love hearing from you. We love your questions and your suggestions, even for future episodes, because we're doing this for you, to help equip you to be the best parent you can be. And we're on this journey with you and we want to learn and grow as right along with you. And so reach out to us. We'd love to connect. Keep up the great work, moms and dads. You're doing awesome. God bless you. We'll see you next time.

Sam.