How To Overcome Addiction

Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And if you are watching on YouTube, which I hope you are, for those of you who are listening, you might want to watch because this is going to be a great conversation. We have dear friends of ours with us in the studio, and Dave is going to tell you all about them.

That's right. Eric and Kristen Kennedy, two of my favorite people. They really, really are. I had the privilege of officiating their wedding.

Yeah, you did.

How many years? Beautiful wedding.

May will be 10 years.

10 years.

I was gonna say that was about a decade ago.

And you guys haven't aged. I look 20 years older. You look the same.

I'm the same.

Seriously.

My hair got longer.

Well, since then, they've had a beautiful daughter. Their family has just grown. Their. Their influence has grown and they. They're just amazing, authentic, incredible people. I'm honored to get to work alongside Eric at Stephen Street Church and. And just do life with them in that way. But today we're going to talk specifically that I'm so incredibly excited about. XO is partnered with Eric to kind of help share his story and through his story, create a resource to help anybody in recovery or struggling with addiction, them or their spouse. It's a resource for couples because Eric is in a journey of now more than a decade of sobriety. What is it, 12 years? 13 years of sobriety?

14 years? September 27th.

Good for you, Mary.

Oh, my goodness.

That's amazing.

Good for you.

That is such an accomplishment.

And we're going to talk about the book I Do Recover, which is out now. I promise you guys this story is going to inspire you. This resource is. There are people, even if you specifically might not need it in your marriage, I promise you, there are people in your life who need it that are maybe even struggling in secret. And it's just so real. It's so authentic. And, you know, Eric's struggle was, you know, was drugs and alcohol. But the way this book is written for both people with any kind of chemical dependence or another kind of addiction. Sex. Sex addiction, or. Gosh, I. And it's really so relevant. As I was reading it, I mean, I just. I found so many application points to my own life. So I don't want to spend the whole time talking. I want to get out of the way, let you guys talk. Before we dive into the book, though, let's rewind the clock and you guys tell us your love Story Because, Eric, this is one of the smoothest moves I've seen. Guys, if you're listening, it's a great move. When Kristin showed up at church, Eric essentially pretended to be the welcome committee, which we don't actually have.

We don't.

And he called her repeatedly to just make sure she was getting assimilated. And if she needed anything, she said, this is the friendliest church. This welcome committee. Tell one of her friends. Is like, I don't think we have a welcome committee, but it works. So, yeah, you guys just tell us.

A little bit about it. Sure. Yeah. I served at the church on our safety team, and I made sure that Krista knew that I wanted to give her a couple of high fives every couple of Sundays just to let her know I'm here.

All via Facebook messenger.

Oh, yeah. I talked to her in person yet? So I had a flip phone. And so I had to go through a mutual friend's Facebook list and just prayed that she didn't have, like, a picture of her dog or cat as her profile picture. But then I spent a day looking for it, and I finally found her and had the courage to send her a Facebook message. But that's how we kind of started communicating. I saw her across the church auditorium. I sat in a. In a specific seat every Sunday. That was my seat. And then I would look over to the right, and I would make sure she was there on Sundays. And if I had the nerve to just high five, I would high five every once in a while. But I'd send her enough messages. She's like, hey, I think this guy's trying to get in touch with me because he wants to make sure I'm connected to the church. That wasn't the connection I was looking for.

I was on a girls trip. I was on a girls trip. And I remember sitting. We were headed to dinner, and I was sitting in the car, and I was like, you guys, this. This guy is messaging me again. And I said, he told me if I see him at church Sunday to give him a high five. I said, I think he must be part of, like, some kind of welcoming committee of the church or something.

Complete stalker.

If he's flirting with me, why is he offering high fives?

You know, I was like, who does that?

But that's what he was doing. And I'll never forget, one of my friends looked at me. She said, kristen, he's not on the welcome committee. I think he's trying to figure out how to get you out on a date.

And it Works.

It works. Here we are.

So all you single guys at church guys, take note.

Take notes, take note. But it worked. And I planned. I wanted this to be a special date. I had been married before and dated a little bit, but I noticed something in Kristin that I wanted to have a relationship with her. And so I planned this elaborate weekend, long date after date after date that kind of worked out.

Truly lasted all weekend.

Yeah. So in Augusta, there's a small airport called Daniel Field. And I remember somebody saying that you could. You could rent a plane for 30 minutes for, like, 150 bucks.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

And so I did that, and I said, let's go. Let's go to the movies. And then I've got this special thing planned after the movies. And so we went to the movies, and I remember getting a text message saying, we can't do this special thing because there were. There was freezing rain. We. We went out, and I think our first date was in February. February. And it was. It was too. Too cold to fly. There was too much rain. I'm like, okay, I'm fine with that.

So, mind you, we had already been to dinner, going to a movie, and there was still a third aspect of this date. Like, I think our date. It wasn't even dinner. I think it was lunch.

No, no, it was dinner.

Our date started very early on Friday.

But it was daytime when the date ended. It wasn't even night yet. It was supposed to be a sunset flight. And so I'm like.

He's like, it's gonna continue tomorrow. Yeah, we'll go out again tomorrow for an airplane ride.

And so we. We. We. We got together Saturday afternoon, and we showed up at Daniel Field, and they offer, you know, this. You fly up over Augusta, and you see the Augusta national, and you fly up to the lake, and then you fly back down Washington Road and the sun setting while you're at the lake. So it was rare, you know, it's just really cool.

That is cool.

And I'm like, I'm going to win her over with this one. And my friends.

My friends thought that he was trying to live up to the Bachelor because the Bachelor was kind of a craze at the time. He's doing like a bachelor type. Yeah. This welcoming commitment.

Did he give you rose, before you get on the.

Some cheese and wine?

Yeah, Cheese.

Well, there's no cheese and wine.

There was no wine recovery, so they offered sparkling grape juice as an option, luckily, so we had some great juice.

Yeah.

We have a great picture from that first Date. I'm standing in front of the airplane. We both look so young and rested. But the best part about that night is I was like, okay, this is fun. So we did our movie and dinner Friday night. We did the airplane ride Saturday. I get home Saturday night, and I'm, like, feeling good. I'm like, okay, he's a really nice guy. That was a fun day. I look down at my phone, and I have a relationship status request. Look, to be in a relationship with this man. After our first date. Yeah. Whoa, whoa, whoa. We went from welcoming. Excuse me.

Welcoming committee.

To interrelations.

And I think. I don't remember. It's been so long. Like, do you decline it? I just left it unread. I think I was like, I don't know if I'm ready to make it.

I fed you, and I put you.

In a plane relationship. Like, I'm sealing this deal that just stayed there, just in space for a bit. And I finally accepted it. And we haven't. We haven't gone back. But then Sunday, we went to church together and went to Columbia and had lunch. Like, he didn't just want to take me to lunch in Augusta.

Oh, wow.

So I'm like, you have a lot to live up to.

Well, it was only a dollar to get in that day. So I was like, let's just go ahead and go to the.

Yeah, we're here.

Yeah, let's go.

So we got to know each other. We had a good, good weekend. Yeah.

You're in a relationship by the end of that weekend.

Yeah, we were. According to Eric, he was like, I didn't know any better. I just thought that.

Yeah.

I mean, we were in a relationship.

I mean. Yeah.

I think he changed his profile picture to the plane ride picture.

Like, so you showed up to the wedding not even knowing you were getting married that day. He just tricked you. You're like, put on this. Yeah, put. Wear this. It's a really special date. And then all of a sudden, you're just.

The next week, and we're at our wedding.

Yeah.

Just kidding. There was a. I think there was, what, eight months in between. Like, we didn't.

That was February. And I. Yeah.

Proposed in November. Thanksgiving. Yeah.

Thanksgiving.

I don't know. Do the math.

There you go. Hey.

And I didn't see that seal the deal either. Yeah.

So I was ready.

Yeah.

Yes. I'm six years older. I don't have any time to be waiting.

And I feel like you get to a certain age, you don't.

You just know.

Right. You're you're not in it just to have a boyfriend. Right. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, do I see potential in the sky or is this just, you know? So I think we both just, you know, and people ask how we met and, you know, of course, every mom's dream is for your daughter to meet somebody at church. And that's what I did. I met Eric at church. And I truly believe the way we, our lives were able to cross. Cross paths is because we both served. Yes. Like, you have to get plugged in. And he did see me from a distance, but he also knew I served in the kids ministry. And it's just, you know, looking back and seeing all of these things, like, perfectly line up by those little decisions.

Yeah.

You know, so it's, it's a cool story to tell. I. I always appreciated our.

I didn't drop the recovery bomb until after the plane. Rhonda.

That's what I was gonna ask about. Like, how did that go? How did that conversation go?

I waited some time. It was on the phone.

I remember.

Yeah, I waited a. I think I probably waited about a month, you know, and because I have two little boys from that first marriage that. Fine young men. And. And so there's, there's, you know, it's just like when I went into recovery, you know, you have to take things in stages. You can't take it all at one time. And so I wanted to honor our relationship. I wanted to have a friendship first. But I knew she needed to know about the boys in that situation, and she needed. And she deserved to know about recovery because at that time, I only had a year or two years, almost two years.

I gave you your two year chip?

No, Dave gave me three years.

I'm sorry, I gave you your three year chip.

You gave me my three year chip.

I gave you your three year chip.

And so, yeah, I had two years in. And so. But, you know, I didn't have hesitation. I knew that she would be fine with it. What I didn't know is she had dated somebody previously named Eric that.

Oh, wow.

That had issues. And so, you know, that was something that we walked through together. But, yeah, I mean, after I told her and I promised her, you know, let me just show you that. I mean, the things that I say, it just fell into place.

Yeah, it was definitely. Again, I thought I was doing the right thing. I met him at church. You know what I mean? He seemed like a great guy, and he was. And I actually remember he shared his Testimony at the 25th anniversary service for Stevens Creek. And we didn't know each other then. And I remember seeing him on the screen and he was sharing his testimony. He said he had two sons. And I remember looking at him and I was like, oh, he's good looking. You know what I mean? Like, and I. You know, and I was listening to his testimony, and I was like, oh, he's got kids, though. Like, you know, and of course, that.

That's a.

You know, it's a little. Just hesitation there because of the. The unknown of that. But didn't know he had already had his eye on me from a distance at that time. But he. So like Eric said, I did. I thought I had done everything right. I had met him at church, and then he kind of dropped. I knew, obviously, on the first date that he had children, and I was okay with that. I did have, again, a little hesitation just because I had been in a relationship and I was very young. I was like 18, but I felt like it. First relationship. And that guy had a child. He also struggled with addiction. And two things I promised God and my mom and dad was I would never do that again. I said, I cannot ever go down that path again. Because it was a very hard time of my life of just going through the relationship and breaking up with someone who had a child and just being so sad and heartbroken and grieving that loss of that relationship with that child. But more so, the addiction part that God did not. He did not treat me well. And a lot of it stemmed from his struggles with addiction because he was in the middle of it. And I said, I cannot do that again. Especially the addiction part. That is never again. And then, you know, I meet Eric, and he's got both of them, and his name is also Eric. And I'm like, okay, God, what's going on here? You know, I thought I did it right this time, but I truly believe now that that was just all part of the testimony. He was preparing me in a way that I had no idea all those years ago. And he was showing me that, you know, the big difference between the two relationships was he knew. He knew Jesus. He had a relationship with our Lord, you know, and. And that other guy did not. And so it's just so again, just, you know, you. What's the joke? You. You try to tell God your plans, you know, make him laugh. Make him laugh. Try to tell him your plans. And. And so, yeah, the addiction aspect was very scary for me. It was scary for my family to see me go down that road again and that kind of thing. But I just, you know, again, that nudge from the Holy Spirit, it's okay, just trust me. Just give it, give it a shot. And I did. And I think as soon as I found out about it, you were still actively going to AA meetings. And I went to an AA meeting with him and I had my first experience with that. I gave him his three year chip and I just realized it wasn't as scary as it was before, that, you know, he was on a good path forward and.

And here you are. I want to ask this and I know people are probably wondering it and those who maybe are in the midst of an addiction, you know, where one spouse is addicted or maybe even both, you know, it's part of their story currently. I would love to know, like, what are some things that you do differently, maybe from other couples? Because, you know, you've been in recovery for a long time and you've taught others how to recover and have walked alongside others. What are some things you all do differently?

One thing I share with folks because, you know, we have some friends that are, you know, they'll, they'll have a glass of wine at dinner and stuff like that. And I don't have a problem with it and I, and I give them comfort by telling them you aren't the one that had the problem. And so don't, if you're a responsible person that, that does that. Don't let it, you know, change your demeanor around me. You know, I've. Now, I wouldn't say that if I was one year in, I was very.

Guarded one year in.

But you know, if I was, if I stayed that guarded, I wouldn't be able to go to Walmart or have dinner at a nice restaurant because it's there, you know.

Yeah, yeah, it's everywhere.

I mean, it's everywhere. So it's, you know, I had to always accept that those choices were on me.

Yeah.

But yeah, we don't discourage our friends from, from. And I don't want anybody to feel.

You just don't want them to feel uncomfortable around you. He's always just been really good about saying you do what you do. Like, you know, that was my problem. And you know, we're not necessarily encouraging. Oh yeah, drink, drink. And you know, there were times that, the beginning of our marriage where, you know, when we are still merging friends and learning to be friends with people like, you know, we lost, I lost friends over it. Not because, oh, you're married to a guy in a recovery. It was more so that we had to figure out how to be in a relationship together. And I was still very guarded. And I didn't realize it. How. How much I was at the time until now. Like, I look back now, I was very protective over. And that aspect. I did not want to have dinner with people that had wine at dinner. And it was not that I was judging them whatsoever, but I didn't know what this looked like for him at the time.

You were trying to protect him.

I was protecting him. I was very protective over him. And even just recently, I have kind of made amends with some of those friends. And again, nothing happened. It just kind of. We separated ways. And I said it was nothing you were doing. I was very protective over this man. And I didn't even know, of course, why at the time, because I didn't know we would get married and have a child together at the time. But that was just a nudge from the Holy Spirit. Just we were figuring out how to live together as having you as a person in recovery.

And then we didn't know that I would go on staff at Stevens.

We didn't know. Yeah, that's true. He was on staff and a whole.

Nother level of commitment.

Right. Yeah, Right.

And so everything that's been put in our play, in our path has just been. It's just strengthened us, you know, and it didn't have to involve things that I used to think would make me happy. Hopefully that answered it.

But no, that is. And I want to say this real quick, and I think everybody. And you can speak to this because you've all walked this road for a long time, and how everybody responds a little differently. I will never forget we were going out to dinner with some friends, and with these particular friends, with part of the friends, we always would usually have a glass of wine. Like, that was like a normal thing. And Dave and I were talking about it because we were having some additional people, and I knew that this one friend of ours had long been in recovery. And I said we had our other friends with us. And I said, hey, guys. Dave and I talked about this. I said it probably would be wise for us just to not involve wine in this dinner tonight because she's worked so hard in recovery. I don't even want it to be a thing, you know? Well, do you know, later in the dinner, like, we're having dinner, having a great time, you know, we don't need wine to have a great time.

Right.

And so, like, we're just having a great time, and at the very end of the dinner, this particular friend in recovery said, I just want to thank you all for not getting any wine. She goes, I'm still. This is years in recovery. She said, I clock every single drink that is around me, and it helps so much when the people in my party where I'm eating don't have a drink. She goes, I would never keep you all from having your glass of wine because it's not your problem. But she said, but it really means a lot to me.

She said, I know you did it for me.

You did it for me.

Just being intentional.

Just being intentional. And honestly, it's nothing. We're like, you're more important than a glass of wine at dinner, you know, but it's just something to think about. Cause I do think that everybody has their triggers, you know, and in marriage, you know, you've written this resource specifically for married couples. What I see in you guys, and I've always seen in you guys, is there's such a mutual respect for putting the relationship first. Well, God first. And then you know each other, but you, you know, you're not making each other feel bad for kind of your own past, you know? And I think, though, not every married couple who is dealing with addiction has that same posture. What would you say to a couple who's not quite there yet and they feel like they're like, this is the thing that constantly comes in between them?

Well, you know, I guess it would depend on, you know, how much time the spouse has in recovery. Everything's going to come with time.

Sure.

And the little acronym I use is Things I must earn.

Yeah, that's really good.

You know, you have to prove yourself to your spouse to an extent. I had to prove. And even though Kristen and I had just met, I had to prove to her and her family that they'd already defined the next person that was to come along. These are the things you will not have.

Yeah.

Boom, here I am. And then I have to prove to them I'm not going to be that. And I would say the same for those other spouses. Like, it's just going to take time. And you guys working together. And like you said, we have to keep God first.

Yes.

Are we perfect? No. But is any relationship. No. And so they are going to just have to be encouraging and supportive through tougher times than usual than a regular, I guess, usual type setting in a marriage, if that makes sense.

Absolutely.

Man, that's so good. Well, tell us specifically about the book, because this resource, I think it's something we've needed here at xo. It's something so many people need, whether they're the individual that's struggling with some form of addiction or the spouse of one who is. Or maybe one or both of them are in recovery, and they're navigating that road together. And I've never seen a resource like this where it's really focused on the marriage and recovery. And it's beautiful how it's been put together. So just tell us the heart behind it and what you hope people get out of it.

Yeah.

All right, so I'll go back. Nine years ago, Kristen and I were going to Hawaii for, like, a late honeymoon.

Oh, nice.

It worked out to where we got to travel, but she got claustrophobic sitting in the middle seat, so she had to get separated from me. I don't know if I ever told you this or not, but I had my laptop, and I just started. I've lived a life like Benjamin Button and Forrest Gump rolled into one. I mean, I've done it all, been in it all.

I can tell you stories, so many stories.

So I just started going back and just thinking through everything I've done and comparing it to who I am now. And I kept this list in my notes for the last nine years. And I've always wanted to, like, write up a book on those stories. Like, yeah, let me tell you what I did. But then, you know, it really hit me. Last 21 days of prayer in August, I was like, I really need to do something. It's time for me to leave some kind of a legacy for Stevens Creek Church. So my role, I get to help with facilitating in all of our design projects at the church some and how the church is growing. And I love that. And I'll leave little marks that I know will be here after I'm gone. Like the sign out front or the color scheme and just different things that I get to play a role in. But what am I leaving the capital C church? Not just Stevens Creek church. And so my goal was I was praying during 21 days of prayer, and I said, you know, the word legacy came to me, and I'm like, okay, so maybe I write this, and it gets presented as maybe just like a small group study so that there's some kind of a recovery process for guys and girls to go through that could relate to somebody who had a real life experience after they meet at the church or come to the church and want to start a small group. And then I was telling Dave about it, and I said, this feels like, you know. Right. You know, do you know anybody who would help me write this book? Yeah. You need to meet John Anderson. I said, okay. But then September. September 11th, I texted Dave at 4:15 in the afternoon. I was getting in the car because it just. I felt God was telling me to do something else with it. And I got on the phone with Dave, or I texted Dave and I said, I'm supposed to write this for couples. I'm supposed to write this for couples. Not just for this church, but for couples. Because in recovery, you know, the 12 steps I feel like came from the Bible. Bill W. Didn't just pull them from thin air, in my opinion. And there was nothing there for the spouse to kind of go along with the. With the other spouse who was, you know, dealing with recovery. You know, it's individually focused, which is great. It works.

Yeah.

But I wanted to leave something where, okay, now a husband and wife can go through this together.

Yeah.

And so the heart behind the book became that. And I said, dave, I think this is. This could be a resource for couples to use. And he said, you're on to something. Yeah, absolutely. And I got excited. 11th and September 27th, on my recovery anniversary, we were at lunch in Dallas with Jimmy.

It's just wild.

I know John and Kimmy and Dave.

And God moves fast sometimes.

Yeah.

And I was like, this is. Was just an idea of like an autobiography then. But I was sitting next to Jimmy Evans, and he said, no, man, this is going to be a workbook.

Yeah.

And so he said, what I want you to do is get with John and you come up with chapters and chapter outlines, and then we're going to build off of that. And that's what we did for the last 20 weeks.

Yeah.

And we have. Let me tell you something. John Anderson is. He got up in this head and just kind of walked around through all those stories that I've heard.

Yeah.

Because we came up with 13 of the just great chapters from understanding what your spouse is in recovery, understanding what it's like being a generational breaker, being the 10%, how to do date nights and marking your milestones together. You know, like when you get chips. Celebrate that as a couple. And it really spoke to the spouse, too, on just understanding who your partner is and just finding patience and peace in that, you know, and the book's written so where a small group can do this, a. Even a recovery center can use this because a lot of folks, it's so.

Versatile for group study, for individual study, for couples who do together for churches to do together for recovery groups.

There's so many uses.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And we just offered it at Stevens Creek Church, and I had almost 40 people sign up for this first group. And I was so excited. It was just more confirmation. I mean, from the trip to Dallas and running into different lead pastors from churches here in Dallas at the airport. And I'm like, I had to tell them the story and hurry up and let us know when it's done. Let us know when it's done.

It's so needed.

It is. And so that's, you know, that's what I feel like. You know, you guys have explained there's a gap here, and the Lord's just using me to fill the gap. So I'm just, I'm excited about that.

It is so exciting. And they're saying, let us know when it's done. And guys, we're excited to tell you it's done. It's done. So you can get this amazing resource. Easiest way to do it is just through our website, xomarriage.com xomarriage.com store specifically, you can get all of our resources there, including I do recover. And guys, I encourage you to get this book and to go through will be so meaningful. I mean, even if you yourself are not in recovery or not currently struggling with an addiction, it's so eye opening to just help you make healthy choices and have compassion for those who are in recovery. But even beyond that, I just found application for everybody. I really specifically, if you're in recovery, if you're facing any kind of addiction or your spouse is, or a loved one is, get this resource. It's going to help you navigate the road ahead with so much more wisdom and with some practical tools in an area that can sometimes feel out of control. This is going to feel like this is going to be a step towards regaining control in a healthy way.

Yeah.

Yes. Thank you.

I'm so excited.

Thank you all so much for being here and you guys, thank you all for watching and for listening, and we hope to see you next time on the Naked Marriage Podcast.