In Thickness and In Health | The Naked Marriage Podcast | Dave and Ashley Willis

Hey listeners. We are so excited to let you be some of the first people to know that you can now pre order our brand new book, Naked and Healthy.

I'm so excited about this book. It might be the favorite book that we've ever been part of writing because it has not only some of our favorite stories, but so many practical ways for you to get healthier in every part of your life and every part of your marriage. And if you pre order this book, not only are you going to be the very first to get it, but if you order at our site, nakedandhealthy.com, which is through our XO Bookstore, if you order through that site, you will get a signed copy. Ashley and I are going to autograph it for you just as a thank you. And we're so excited for you to read this book. So go to nakedandhealthy.com and pre order your copy of Naked and Healthy today.

Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we are so excited to be talking more about how to have a naked and healthy marriage today. And today we are going to talk about specifically physical health. And that's why we're calling this episode In Thickness and in Health.

That's right. And we've, we've experienced both and lots of things in between. Fitness, health and a lot of kind of squishy parts in between, I guess. But we're going to talk about that and more. If you missed last week's episode where we kind of set up this whole series, Naked and Healthy, check that out. You can also go to the site nakedandhealthy.com to learn about the new book that this is based on. But first, I want to read a brand new review. It's actually, this one actually isn't brand new, but we like to share a review every episode because we so appreciate it when you leave reviews on itunes or Spotify or YouTube, wherever you're listening or on YouTube even watching because those reviews help other people discover the podcast and it also encourages us so much. And so this one is actually from back in October and it's from Austin Management and it is, it just says excellent podcast, five stars. I stumbled across this podcast basically by accident, but I've loved it ever since. It's helped my wife and I bring up topics we needed to discuss and has brought us closer together as a couple. Dave and Ashley give excellent advice and are very personable. Oh thank you. I love their transparency and honesty and openness about their past and current situations and their loving and helpful perspectives. Thank you. And thank you for sharing that. You've made my day. And we are just honored that you're listening. And hey, if you're listening, whether this is your first episode or this is your hundredth episode, we're honored that you're here. It's going to be a fun episode. Let's dive in. When you think about being naked and healthy, usually we're thinking about, like, I want to be in good shape, right? I want to have a weight loss goal. And it's still January. We have New Year's resolutions. One of the most popular ones is always get fit, get in shape. If you didn't listen to last week's episode where we set up the whole naked and healthy theme, go back and listen to that. We also share a really funny story that's along the lines of In Thickness and in Health, which is what we're calling today's podcast. Just as kind of like a joke, but also a true statement about how the different seasons of our marriage, we've experienced health and we've experienced some thickness, too. We've had a little bit of both and what we've learned kind of through it all.

Exactly. So, you know, we are definitely coming at you as two people who are not fitness models. Although I think Dave could totally be that.

I have very prominent love handles, but thank you. Prominent.

That's funny. But, you know, we do value our health. And I mean, at one time I was an aerobics instructor. I talk a lot about this kind of our history as a couple in our book Naked and Healthy, which you can get@nakedandhealthy.com, so I won't belabor the point here. But, you know, we've gone through a lot of fluctuation. And like we said in last episode, you know, a lot of times it's because when we're happy, we're celebrating and we're eating and we're not really watching the calories. Cause we're feeling good and we're like, I'm with the person I love. I don't need to, like, starve myself to get his attention or anything like that. Which you shouldn't have to do anyway. Like, just make sure we talk more about that in the book as well, about having healthy habits. But, you know, I think sometimes when we're dating and when we're engaged, we're really watching that. And then we get married and we're just. We're like. We're happy. I don't need to worry about it anymore. But then before you know it, the scales, numbers are going up. We're feeling like we can't fit in those jeans. You know, we're maybe not sleeping as well. And then, you know, we realize that we have to do something. And that's kind of our story. And it's not just been one story. It's been several stories throughout our marriage in different seasons where we've been really in good shape. And then we kind of let it go. Cause we're feeling good. And then we're, you know, we were like, oh, we probably put on £10. We probably need to get back in gear and get in better shape. And so, you know, it's an ebb and a flow. But I think we want to talk today about what are those things we can do, those practical things we can do to really move towards a healthy lifestyle. And, you know, for us, I think one thing that has made a huge difference is just making activity a regular part of our life now. It has looked different in different seasons because again, you know, some of you listening are newlyweds. And maybe you don't have kids yet. And so you're just, you know, your time is your own, and you can kind of set your own schedule. But once you have busy work schedules and you have children, it can be kind of hard to find the time to exercise. And so it's gonna look different in different seasons of your marriage. But I remember in the beginning of our marriage, you know, I was still a student at Georgetown College in Georgetown, Kentucky. And we had a gym on campus. Dave was working after he graduated. He worked as an admissions counselor. And so we could go to the gym on campus, and we could walk the beautiful campus, you know, and then. And then when we. About three, four years later, we started having children, we decided to get a gym membership at the ymca, because that was a gym that included childcare. Once they were, I think, six months old, you could take a baby. We milked it.

Milked it. If you find a gym that has childcare, you've hit the jackpot because they would give you two hours of childcare. And so we would spend the first hour. And that was our date.

It was.

We would sip coffee because they had free coffee, which was really good. We would sit there and drink coffee for an hour. And, you know, and we would start working out after that. Slowly. We would slowly start working out, like, go for a walk together. And then and then go do our actual workout as well. So it was an investment in our marriage.

It was, yeah.

And so we didn't have a whole lot of money back then. We just said, like, let's invest in this gym membership because we're getting childcare. We're getting kind of our date night built in, and we're doing something healthy. And so do those healthy things together. Look for ways to connect like that. And something like a gym membership might not just be for your physical health, but it might be for your marriage health as well as it has been for ours. And one of the guys that worked the front desk at the gym would watch us check in and sit there and drink coffee. And he called us up to the desk one day and he said, hey. He said, just wanted you to know that my daughter and her husband, they're having some marriage problems. And this is before we were doing marriage ministry. And he said, and I told them about what you guys do, that you guys come to the gym and you use the first hour or so just to drink coffee and hang out and talk and laugh, and then you go work out and you take the childcare is there for you. And I said, and I've encouraged them to do that. And they said, we never thought about that before. We're going to start doing that. And so, like, at least one other couple that kind of took that on. It's just looking for creative ways to connect and to invest in your health. But like we talked about in last week's episode, the physical activity, a lot of it can be shared. Like, we try to go on a walk together nearly every day, and it's one of the best times of conversation we ever have. And great exercise, too. But there are other forms of exercise where I like it and she doesn't, or she likes it and I don't. Like, I'll go running, and I'll sometimes train for runs or half marathons if I'm feeling really, really ambitious. She hates running.

I mean, I've tried to love it, you guys. I've tried.

But instead of me, like, trying to shame her, like, wow, why don't you just come run with me? We could enjoy this together. I'm like, no, it's cool. I'll run, and you do your thing. She loves stuff like dance and Zumba and all these other things. I have zero rhythm. Like, I'm not ever gonna move my hips like that. They just don't.

They don't work that way.

Well, you know, I'll give anything a try But I'm just saying, like, your favorite forms of exercise and mine are gonna look different. And that's okay. You don't have to try to guilt or shame each other into saying no. Everything we do, we gotta do together. Do some stuff together. But then support each other in your own individual health pursuits as well.

Absolutely. You know, I love Dave bringing that up. I remember one time, this was probably five years ago, I think it was, well, maybe six years ago. It was after we had our third child. I really was like, I'm determined to become a runner because Dave never put pressure on me. But I just thought to myself, like, I wish I was like those couples that both enjoy running. Like, I wish I could engage in that with Dave. Cause he really does. You enjoy running with, like a running partner, and you usually have a friend that would go, you know, running with you. And I thought, well, what if I could run with you sometimes? That'd be so fun. And so I decided to sign up for a color run. And if you've never done a color run, I thought, well, if you hate running, at least you'll enjoy the color. And like, wearing a tutu and running with your friends and getting. It's basically, it's called a color run because they take cornstarch and they dye at different bright colors and they literally throw corn starch at you while you're running. I know it sounds like that sounds cruel, but it's actually really fun because by the end of it, you look like a tie dyed shirt yourself. And it's just really fun. And it's got lots of music going and stuff. So I signed up for one and I was like, dave, I've signed up for this color run. It's a 5K, not much at all for you avid runners out there. I know, but I signed up and I was like, can you train with me? So we were going to the Y at the time, and we did our normal coffee routine. We did the little walk. But then I said, instead of walking the whole way, how about half the way, we'll run together. And so I got up to like 30 minute runs where I would actually somewhat enjoy and not feel like I was gonna die doing 30 minutes of continuous running. And then I was able to complete the color run. And I kept it up for a little bit. But I found that I just. As much as I tried to convince myself that I loved running, I just do enjoy other forms better. And so by the end of that, it was probably a four month, you know, season that I did That I was like, I felt so bad because I wanted to enjoy it as much as you do. And, you know, I think Dave appreciated my effort in at least trying. But it turned out to not be a long term thing and we kind of settled back into our routine of walking and walking fast. I mean, we're not leisurely walking, we're walking fast. And I have my little apple watch and it's tracking, you know, if I'm doing enough and I'm getting my heart rate up enough. And that has been good for me. But I think sometimes just even showing your spouse that you're willing to engage in what they love goes a long way. But also for the spouse that whose spouse is trying and ends up not liking it, you know, make sure you don't shame them. And I'm so thankful that Dave didn't make me feel bad or feel like I was a loser because I didn't love running. As you all know, we love a date night, and we definitely encourage couples to have a regular date night. But during this time, many of us have had to get a little creative with the date nights we go on every month. The Unbox Love team puts their heads together and comes up with an awesome date night. They plan activities that allow couples to learn about each other, experience something new together, and make memories that will last. And then they wrap all of that up in a box and send it to you, which is just awesome.

And the themes are amazing. So each date is built on a theme. Past themes have been stuff like a trip to Italy and the brand new 1 90s date night. And I am so excited about this. So in this box right now, there is a box of 1990s pop trivia, which I just geek out on. And then a bunch of, like, snacks and candies that were available in the 90s that I haven't seen since. This is like opening a time capsule taking me back to the 90s. And I just want to jump in the box and live there because I kind of loved the 90s this. It's so fun. It's so creative. You and your spouse, whether you're young, old, in between, you will have so much fun with the themed date night boxes.

And as a listener of the Naked Marriage podcast, Unbox Love is giving you 10% off. And all you have to do is visit unboxlove.com naked that's unboxlove.com naked.

Be a safe place for each other. We talked a lot about that and shared a story about that in the last episode. As well, where you support each other. But for your own personal health, I think it's good to challenge yourself to just say, I want to be healthy. I don't have to have washboard abs or be able to bench press £500 or run an ultra marathon or whatever, but I want to be healthy. Because it's biblical and we talk about this in the book as well. But our bodies, the Bible teaches us, are not even our own. The Bible says that we need to honor God with our bodies. Every part of our life, including our bodies, is something that God has temporarily entrusted to us. We honor him by how we care for it. And so when we take care of our body, it's going to help us to live life to the full, to have the energy to do all the things he's called us to do, to have the energy to be the best spouse and parent and whatever other roles God has for you to be. Not in a superficial way. Like our fitness goals shouldn't just be based on these superficial things, but I think that we should have goals to say, I want to be married to you and alive to be married to you as long as possible, as long as health permits, before God calls us home. And I want those years to be full with as much energy as possible. And I'm willing to face temporary discomfort, to have permanent improvement in my health and in our marriage. And how do you get there? I'm gonna brag on one of our kids here for just a second because I'm so proud of this health journey that he's on right now. So we have four little boys. They're not even little anymore. Really. Yeah, two of them are teenagers. Our second son is a 13 year old. His name is Connor. Just this kid has a heart of gold and I'm so proud of him. But he. The last several years, he's really struggled with his weight. He kind of got to a point where, just through a variety of factors, he'd gotten really overweight and gotten into kind of a sedentary lifestyle. And we tried to encourage him. We tried to encourage him with healthier foods. We tried to encourage him. I got him a series of books that he actually read called the Warrior Way of the Warrior Kid. Books written by a Navy SEAL named Jocko Willink, who also wrote a great book called Extreme Ownership, which I read. I won't go down that rabbit trail, but great lessons about working hard in your life. And he read that and he was motivated to start exercising and doing some things. And he'd also. He'd had his feelings hurt a lot along the way. Even this past summer, you know, he was at the pool and he walked by, you know, a group of girls, and he was with a friend, and he heard these girls, like, giggling and whispering. And they were talking about his weight, which, as a middle school kid is just horrifying and heartbreaking. And my heart just ached for him, even though he had a good attitude about it. Like, I was more of the place where I'm like, you know, let's pray for those girls that they never come to faith in Christ so they can experience the eternal torments of Hades. You know, I was ready to just kind of go there with those little snobs. No, we pray for them, but, you know, your heart hurts for your kid when he's been wounded. He had to get to a place, though himself where he was wanting to make lifestyle changes because you can't do this for anybody else, right? You can't even do this for your spouse. And so what we tried to do is put him in a position where he would have the tools he needed to do it. And we said, let's listen. Like, you don't really like a lot of sports. So instead of just trying to do that and trying to force you to do something that doesn't come naturally, even though there is going to be some discomfort along the way in pushing yourself in any part of life, why don't we get you with a personal trainer for a while who can work with you and find things that you're naturally good at and help push you in those areas. And so we took him to a consultation with a personal trainer. He did one session, and he felt so embarrassed because he couldn't do hardly any of the things this trainer was asking him to do. And he felt sick and he felt embarrassed, and he was deflated, and he said, dad, I just don't think I can do it. And I said, buddy, listen, like your mom says, Ashley always has this great saying, you can do hard things. There's a great story about that in the book. And he said, I know you can do this, and we're here for you. He said, I'm not going to force you to do this. You have to want it. But I believe in you and I know you can do it. And so he kind of talked himself out of doing it, but then he decided, no, I want to give this a try. And for the last three months or so, he's been going regularly to this trainer. And in just this two or three months, like his Strength. His body has really transformed in huge ways. And he's so proud of himself. And he's just so excited because for him, the goal wasn't, like, superficial stuff. He doesn't care about having abs or any of that stuff. He just wanted to be healthy, and he wanted to, you know, he wanted to be mobile and to feel good and to be active. And he's doing that now. And it's made such a difference in him. And I know that's kind of like a long story. Cause I just love bragging on him, and I'm just. Just proud of him. But I think in marriage, in adulthood, in any season of life, it's kind of the same path. We for ourselves have to say, like, you know, I don't want to live like this anymore. I'm not living life to the healthiest, to the best. I'm not honoring God with my body. But instead of just beating yourself up about it, because that guilt doesn't do anything but make you just want to eat more and feel sorry for yourself. To say, what's something I can start doing today and then keep doing, and then find a way as a couple to encourage each other in that, and you'll both be on a path to better health.

Well, even like with Connor, that first day, he came home almost kind of angry, like Dave said, embarrassed. And he wanted to give up. He really wanted to give up. And we were like, you know what, bud? You can't give. I mean, you can do. First of all, you can do hard things. And that's not something I came up with. I remember I was inspired, I talk about this in the book, by another mother. And there's a long story behind it. But they have this statement in their family, and we've adopted that statement as well. But I told him too. I'm like, you gotta give it another try. Cause you can do this. And I think so many times, even as adults, we feel like that middle schooler. We feel like Connor. And we're like, I'm just not cut out for this. And I think that, you know, one time or even a week or two weeks, we're not gonna really know what we're cut out for. We have to give it more time. And as spouses, when it comes to, you know, how can we be naked and healthy together? How can we support each other? It's encouraging each other in that way. Not ever shaming each other, but saying, you know what? You gotta try again. Try this again. You know what? This time I'll go with You. I'll go to that Zumba class with you. I'll go run with you, or, you know, whatever it is, or I will help you find the time to do this. You know, I wanted to kind of transition our conversation. I know we've talked about joining each other and doing in a physical activity. But I think another aspect of this, where we can help each other is if you can't or maybe don't have the desire to join your spouse in that particular activity, help them find the time. So, you know, for example, if you have kids or duties at home, whatever it is, maybe you take on those duties for the day. Like, maybe you take the kids to where they need to go that day so that your husband or wife can go to that class they wanna go to. Or maybe you get the kids on the bus because they're gonna wake up and go train in the morning. You know, you're just switching your routine a little bit because you're trying to give your spouse the time they need to do what they need to do to get healthier. And I know Dave has done that for me so many times. I remember specifically we had just moved, and when we moved to Augusta, Georgia, for the first time, I was eight months pregnant. And we had the baby. And I had kind of put on some weight that I kept on from the first pregnancy. And so I end up having Connor happen to be that baby that I had. And I remember afterwards, you know, two months after, I just. I looked at myself and I just thought, you know, it's not even just about the looks, but I don't look and feel like I want to. I'd kept on some weight from after I had Cooper, you know, our first baby. And I just knew I had to do something. And I remember a girl at church came up to me and said, hey, I heard that you had taken dance for many years, which I did. I grew up dancing, and I love dancing. And she said, well, we have this dance team at church, and we get together. It's really more of, like, a small group where we just dance together. And sometimes we'll perform at church, but really it's just about exercise. And I was like, oh, I'd love to go. You know, when do you all meet? And she told me it was like two nights a week for like an hour or two at a time. And I immediately felt deflated. Cause I thought, well, gosh, I mean, I don't know if I have the time for that. You know, we've got these two small children and and then when Dave gets home from work, I just want us to spend time as a family. I think it's just not gonna work out. So I went and told Dave about it, and I was kind of making excuses, and I was like, you know, I know. Isn't that cool that they have a dance team? And wouldn't that just be fun? But, you know, I know that it's just not practical right now. It's just the wrong season. Maybe one day I can do that. And he immediately spoke up and said, no, no, no, no. This is perfect for you. I mean, you're made for this. Like, you're a dancer, and so you get to go be with other dancers and do it to praise the Lord and also get exercise. Like, to me, this sounds like a perfect that you've been looking for. And also, we just moved, and you don't have any friends yet. It's a great place to meet people.

Exactly.

And so he made. You know, you made it happen for me. You helped me in that. So you were a partner. Even though you weren't going to this dance group with me, you were helping me because you were helping me find the time and taking things off my plate to let me go there. And that's what we have to do for each other. Because in marriage, you can't just say, well, I'm gonna join the Zumba class whether you like it or not, or I'm gonna go run every day at. And you just handle the kids. You know, we have to talk to each other about the schedule and then get on the same page with it, but really help each other find that time. And I'm so grateful that Dave did that, because I ended up doing that dance team for years. I later on even led the dance team once our leader had to move. And it has just been, like, some of the best years of my life when it comes to friendship, like, just making new friends and getting in shape. I ended up losing, like, 40 pounds, I think, and feeling great. I mean, I was in probably the best shape I've been in in many years. And it was just so fun because I was doing it with other people also trying to get in shape. And I'm just so grateful that Dave really never made me feel bad about that and made it happen with me.

Well, and I think Ashley touched on a lot of the really themes that kind of putting these into action steps that you can do in any marriage. And it's not about you having to be a dancer or you have to do one of these Specific things. But it's about one in your marriage prioritizing health for both of you. Physical health, emotional, spiritual. We'll talk about all these in the weeks to come as a priority that's worth pursuing and never being too busy for your health, because you're always gonna be busy. You know, there's never an ideal time, but you have to make time for these things because they matter. We make time for the things that matter. And then to help make that time, like Ashley said, serve each other. You know, volunteer to say, no, I got the kids that night, or, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna go pick up, do those chores that you would normally do, or run those errands so that you are freed up to do this, and let's do that for each other. But then also having the communication and mutual respect to serve each other and be on the same page and share your calendar and your goals, where you're not just saying, give an ultimatum, saying, well, I'm gonna do this. And then finally supporting each other in every part of the process, never making your spouse feel like you would love them more if they looked a certain way, or you would love them more if they lost a certain amount of pounds. Because if it's ever about that, then the whole marriage dynamic is broken. It's just about wanting both of you to be healthy for the sake of the fact that you love each other. So I want you to be at your best, but I love you just the way you are, and I couldn't possibly love you more than I do now. And I'm so attracted to you, and I couldn't possibly be more attracted to you. I just want to do everything I can to serve you, to put you in a position where you can pursue health, and we can do that together, and we can serve one another in that way. And so that's gonna be what we continue to talk about in the weeks to come. Again, the book is called Naked and Healthy. You can get the book@nakedandhealthy.com and we're so excited that it's gonna be out here now, just in a month or so. Yes. But now it's time to transition to our weekly question. And we thank you guys who've written questions in to us@nakedmarriagepodcast.com Today's question says this. My wife and I have been married for five years. Last year, I started talking to my ex out of the blue. When things got out of control, we talked about meeting up, but we never actually did we were both married and realized how wrong we were, so we stopped contacting each other. Should I tell my wife about this? Well, first off, thank you for having the courage to write this and share this. And I do think that in the social media age we live in now more than ever, things that weren't even really a thought or as much of a temptation, maybe in generations past just because your paths didn't cross, but now with social media, people from your past, even romantic relationships from your past, you can be seeing that person, whether you're looking for them or not, popping up. And it can just spark thoughts that maybe begin innocently, like, oh, I just want to reconnect with this old person. But really, nothing good is ever gonna come by pursuing a reconnection with someone that you've had a romantic relationship with in the past. So that brings to the question, though, do I tell my wife about this? Sweetie, you wanna go first?

Absolutely. Short answer? Yes, absolutely. Because here's the thing. You know, you both realized it got out of control. I don't really know what that entails, if that means it got physical or not. But even if it didn't, even if you literally just had a couple of.

Conversations, they didn't actually meet up, but it was.

Oh, they never actually met up. But getting out, that makes me think there were some feelings.

Right, right.

And so you need to go ahead. I'm glad you shut it down. You both recognize this. But you keeping it a secret will make it a much bigger deal. Let's say your wife finds out that you have been talking to your ex, and then she's going to doubt your honesty in other things. Cause that's what happens when we keep secrets. It just makes, you know, it makes us completely lose trust in each other. And so you absolutely need to go to your spouse, you know, be ready for her to be upset. But I would say, like, listen, I don't wanna keep any secrets from you. This got out of control. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm so sorry. I completely cut off any contact with my ex. But I want you to know that this happened because I don't want it to get out of control again. I wanna be totally honest and open about everything with you. And will you please forgive me?

Yeah, that's true.

And will you hold me accountable and, you know, make sure there's no passwords or secrets or that she doesn't have access to maybe where you were contacting your ex and just to hold you accountable and, you know, be prepared for her to be very hurt and to lose trust. But I'm telling you, she won't lose as much trust in you when you tell her now earlier than she would if you waited and she found out on her own later. So you definitely need to go and tell her, even though it is gonna be a hard conversation. These kind of things aren't easy. But it is gonna be the right thing to do because, you know, she deserves to have to have all the facts, and she deserves for you to be honest with her.

Yeah. And that really is a picture of what naked and healthy is all about. Nakedness is a picture of total transparency, vulnerability, and trust. And right now, you're not naked because you're hiding this. You're covering. And the level of your honesty will determine the level of your intimacy. And so I think that you already know that the right thing to do is to tell her, which is why you wrote the question in the first place. And I commend you again for your courage in taking that step. But now it's time to take the big step, the only one that really matters here, which is to tell your wife to have that conversation. And if you're listening to this, wherever you are, if there's a secret that you're carrying that you know, you know right now, your heart's racing because you know that there's something you need to tell your spouse. You do need to tell them. Don't carry that secret. Don't believe whatever lie or justification you've told yourself that's made you keep that secret. You need to be able to share that. And it might be a painful conversation, but in the long run, it's the healthiest thing for the marriage and the only way that the marriage can really thrive and be healthy. The way that God intended.

That's right.

Well, guys, thank you so much for listening to this again. The website for the book that we're talking about is nakedandhealthy.com you can find all of our resources as part of the team at XO Marriage, including the calendar for upcoming events beginning next month in February and running through this spring. We're excited to finally be doing live events again. Go to xomarriage.com and hopefully those will happen. But hey, even if they don't, there's a lot of good stuff@xomarriage.com that you want to see. Anyway, it can't be closed down, so check that out.

That's right. And we will see you next time. Do you have any burning questions about sex? And yes, I said burning that you would love to ask someone and you don't know who to ask. Well, we are your people. You can ask us.

You don't want to just ask Google because some crazy stuff will pop up. I'm telling you, don't do it. You ask us and we will try to give you a straightforward, biblical, practical answer. It doesn't just have to be about sex, by the way. Any of your marriage questions, we will do our best to answer them right here on the podcast. You can submit your questions@nakedmarriagepodcast.com so ask.

Anything, really, and it's confidential.