Infertility and Miscarriages | The Naked Marriage Podcast | Dave and Ashley Willis

Hey, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We're Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we undress the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. Got a great interview today with our friends George and Barclay Lyles, and they're going to talk about some really intimate issues like miscarriages, infertility, and how they work through that together. Even if you haven't faced those specific issues, though, stick around, because what they talk about in terms of their faith and their teamwork and grieving through different losses in life, I think is really going to bring hope to you.

I think, too, you know, from their story, you'll learn a lot about how to get through hard times together and how to not let those hard times bring you apart, but how to really connect more than ever before. So let's dive in.

I am so excited about this interview. As we talked about during the intro, our friends George and Barclay Lyles are just that. I mean, they're friends. I mean, sometimes we interview folks and we don't know them that well, but these are folks that we love like family, and we're so excited to. To share their story. We're talking about some, you know, some serious issues, some of, like, the very real and intimate issues of things like miscarriages and infertility that a lot of you have written in about that really can create a unique kind of tension in a marriage. We're going to talk through that. But at the same time, knowing these two, there's also going to be joy and laughter even in the midst of some of these serious conversations. So, George and Barclay, welcome.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Thanks for having us.

Yeah, we appreciate you, man.

Absolutely.

It is. So. It's so good to see you guys. Well, just to kind of start out, why don't you tell us a little bit about your journey of how you met, how you got together. Just give us the kind of nutshell version of the love story that led you up to this point.

Yes, sure. So George and I. So at the time that I met George, I was 34. And, you know, Dave and Ashley, we've talked many times before about, like, trying to find a soulmate. What does that look like? And so we've had many a prayer. And so finally, George walked into a restaurant one day, and I said to my buddy, I said, wow, he's good looking. Is this your friend? And he's like, yeah, but, you know, he doesn't have any drama, so you probably wouldn't be very interested in him.

Oh.

That'S what I give off. Right. So anyway, so about, what, seven, eight months later, we get engaged.

Yeah. We met in January. I proposed her on October 21st of 2018, and then we got married February 22nd of 2019. So within 13 months, we went from not knowing each other to being married. So when you know, you know.

When you know, you know. That's right.

And I was not one to want to waste any time, so I was on the fast track.

I love it.

She was not.

That's awesome.

In many regards, too.

Yeah. So then we went on a late honeymoon, got married in February, went on a late honeymoon in September. And when we came back a couple days later, found out that I was pregnant. And we weren't necessarily trying, but we weren't opposed to it. We just were like, oh, okay. So this just happened. So we found out we were pregnant in September. And then we. About week eight, really, about week nine, we go in for the sonogram to hear the heartbeat. I had already heard it once, and this time George was coming in. And the next morning, we were gonna. We'd already taken our announcement pictures, and we were gonna announce it on the air because I. Television anchor in the mornings, and I was raring to go, and we didn't have a heartbeat. And that. Nobody prepared us for that. But we really. If somebody had, we wouldn't have. We would have thought we were different. We would have said, but for us, it won't happen. And that was such a blow for us. That was devastating.

I remember going in that day to Dr. Pickett's office, and she pulled it up on the screen, and the technician was in there, and she just kind of looked down and she went silent. And before anything was ever said, I knew. I just had this feeling, just gut drop feeling before anything was said. And she asked the tech to leave, and I said, okay, all right, let's go on and prepare. And it was. It was a. It was a gut check. It really was for the both of us. And then, not only that, but when we were in there right afterwards, she told us that it was actually twins. And we hadn't known that fact yet. So it really. I mean, double. But it was just, like, another thing to us.

Yeah. So that kind of started that moment, kind of started what this whole year has become for us, which is something that, looking back, we could have never. You want to talk about highs and lows and, like, ups and downs and learning how to deal with some really big situations in your marriage, quickly. This past 12, 13 months has done that to us. We've kind of were thrown into that.

And it really brought us together and made us work together in ways that we didn't know how to do prior to. You know, you kind of. You learn on the go, if you will, from time to time. And in this particular scenario, it was, like, forced upon us. So, you know, we took the Lord's call and just rolled with it.

Wow. And, you know, I think that. And I know we actually had dinner with you guys, and we talked a little bit about this, how they say, you know, one in four women experience miscarriages, but yet people don't talk about it until it happens. And I remember, Barclay, you saying, like, you know, once you started talking about this, a lot of people were like, oh, we walked through that. And you were like, wow, how did I not know about that before? And so you can feel really lonely, you know, when you're walking through something like this and it is a death. I mean, you're grieving. You're grieving the loss of these two precious babies. You know, and grief is a funny thing, too. Cause everybody kind of experiences grief slightly differently. And also the process of grief that they walk through, they go at different rates. And that's where you see a lot of marriages have trouble. How did you guys navigate that? Because I know, like you said, I mean, you're walking in there thinking you're gonna. You're on the day, you're going to make that announcement, and you learn about, you know, that these babies have passed away. You know, what did the days that came after that look like? And how you were grieving and also trying to stay close.

Well, I will say this. So I was not ready to come to terms with this. And I asked my doctor, there are some procedures you can have to physically make sure the baby, you know, comes out. I mean, not be graphic. But that is just part of the process. And. And for some, it happens naturally. And I told my doctor, I am not doing anything for seven days. Do not give me medicine. I'm not taking anything. Give me seven days. Seven days to me has always been a holy. I mean, not to me, but to Christians is a holy number. And I said, just, Lord, just give me seven days. And I put my head into the Bible, more so than I ever had. I read the book of. Not the book of Hannah, but I read the story of Hannah over and over. I went to church and had hands laid on me. And I knew that on day seven, if I had not. And George, poor George, going to work. And I'm just, like, up at 4 in the morning, crying and just. But I needed that time. And I said, lord, by day seven, I have done all of this. If this is not your will, then. And I said to George, then I'm going to come to terms with this. And that's what happened is that it didn't come to fruition, and I had such a piece about it, and George and I really. Go ahead.

Yeah. I'm actually really glad you brought that up, too, because this was, I would say, one of the biggest struggles we had at first between the two of us and our marriage. I mean, it was, you know, as a. And I would say, as a guy, more so We. I don't want to say look at the glass half full, necessarily, but we take what comes at us, we accept it, we move on and try to look forward and try to move to the next thing. And I think, you know, I didn't necessarily understand at the time, like, all right, she needs more time to actually process what happened, whereas I was. I was willing to accept what God had thrown at me. Was I happy about it? Absolutely not. But, you know, I just was. I was ready to start trying again, necessarily, if you will, rather than crying over what had happened, because I was looking forward to raising a family with her. And I didn't realize at the time that my grieving process was different than her grieving process and that she needed a little more time than I did, and she needed different resources than I did during that time. I mean, I was there for her. I don't think I did anything rash, but I.

He was great, and he got to.

Go to work, right?

So like, I took off, I think, like, a week and a half or two weeks, because that's just. I was an emotional basket case. And he went to work, and that was his processing, and just, okay, I'm gonna go and get the paycheck and make, you know, work my. You know, my mind through it. And, you know, I'm. There's a part of me that I'm a fixer. And so this was something I couldn't fix. This is why I waited those seven days. I'm like, wait a second. I think I can pray this into existence. I mean, I really, really believe that. And so at that time, George and I did reflect and say, huh? Would we have been ready for a baby? We really weren't planning on it for that month. Would we be ready for one? And we really sat back and we thought this could be a blessing. We weren't ready to accept it just yet, but we're like, okay, this could be a blessing, because what do we need to get right so that when this happens again, we really do feel good about this. And so that's when we turned to our finances, and we knew that there's this one part of our life that we could really take the bull by the horns and make really great. So when this child comes into the world, we're ready and can provide the best. And we added up our finances, and we were $76,505 in debt.

504. 95 cents. Who's counting?

Yeah, Right.

We did the Dave Ramsey plan, and we really hunkered down on that and did the financial peace University listened to the podcast, went down the weeds, and the books and his books, and that really helped us. And during that time, we had, you know, we mentioned we had a couple more losses during that time and miscarriages, but having the ability to be on it, we got to be on the same page during that time. And so we knew that when we went off track, we knew where to come back together on it.

And I would even go as far to say that it obviously was a blessing for us in our financial aspect of our marriage and our lives, but it was also a blessing to us because it developed us to a much better relationship than we've ever had. And on top of that, sadly, but thankfully prepared us for the other losses that we had coming afterwards that we didn't know about at the time. And when those hit, that was. I mean, it was. It was a different feeling for the next couple. We had an ectopic. I think that was February, and when Covid hit and then Covid hit, and then we had a couple chemical pregnancies. But it really did help us kind of recenter our marriage, recenter our focus, and, you know, come together to a little bit understanding of each other and understand our differences. And I personally think that was one of the biggest things, is accepting the other's differences and moving through them, progressing through them.

Wow, you guys did so much healthy. And just to, like, kind of share some of the practical takeaways I see for those who might be listening and watching right now, and you're maybe dealing in a situation in your life, it could be miscarriages and infertility, or it could be some other situation that feels out of your control that's causing a lot of strain and grief and some of the things. Georgia Barkley, I feel like you just did and continue to do exceptionally well that I'm hearing in your story. Is three things that stand out. Like, number one, that you face it as a team, that you realize we're never gonna face any issue. That's just my issue or your issue. We're gonna face it as a team. And even though we. We might grieve in different ways and we might deal with it in different ways, we're going to support each other in it and face it together. Number two, you leaned on God like never before, realizing God is bigger than whatever you're facing and that he is going to carry you through even the darkest valleys that you ever walk through. And then number three, you had a situation that felt out of your control. And so you're like, what can we do? That's within our power. This is within our control. And for you guys, you focus together as a team to tackle debt, which was gonna help you be in a better place to be parents and just to brag on, you guys, you know, you pay off an enormous amount of debt just in a year time or whatever that exact number was. And then George and Barclay's story, and if you guys listen and you can look this up, it essentially went viral. They were on Good Morning America. They were on several national media outlets. So this is like celebrities you're listening to right now. And guys, you really are. You are.

No, no, you're inspirational.

Man.

The hopeless find hope.

But you know what? But you know, that story I'm telling you, so many people, they feel helpless. Like, they look at $76,000 and they think, there is no way we're digging out of this hole. And I think. I mean, here you dug out of it not only in the midst of a pandemic, but also after losing, and while losing, in the midst of other losses after loss, and then having several miscarriages and grieving through that, and you didn't lose focus on that. And that is just so inspirational. And I think so many people listening and watching will think, well, my goodness, if those two people can tackle debt in the midst of all that, we can at least start doing something differently and get our finances in order. And maybe it's not even finances, maybe it's something else. But just knowing, look at your life, and if there's something that you can change that you feasibly can change and work on together, that you should do it. And I just love that you guys really, I mean, you just went for it, you know, you didn't make excuses. You were like, let's do this. And it's just awesome. I mean, you really are such an inspiration.

It's really cool.

We didn't feel hopeless until we realized what was actually going on too. Like, we didn't realize how hopeless we were until we. Until that first miscarriage actually happened. And we realized, like, we were trying to buy a house and we didn't even have, like, a couple thousand dollars just to put together for a down payment. We were talking to our parents, talking to other people, like, who can we.

Ask to borrow money from?

We were just in no position, oh, this is terrible. And then we, like, we took a step back and we're like, is this really the best scenario? Like, let's borrow money to borrow more money. And then that, that's when it really stuck, sunk in. So, I mean, sometimes you really gotta hit rock bottom before you realize how bad you were off at that point in time.

And I wanna say about the finances, a lot of couples, I know that is a very big elephant in the room for couples. And for, for us, when we first started really going through our finances, we didn't do that until 10, 11 months into our marriage. And there is a really awkward feeling when you start laying out both sides of your finances and you start really showing and being transparent about what your debt is. And then it's like, embarrassing to say, oh, because I buy stuff from Amazon prime all the time. You know, emails.

Yeah, that's what you do.

Yeah, we had a coming to Jesus about that. But what you do is, like, you really start to peel away the layers and you feel vulnerable, but, man, do you feel really good. It's like a weight off your shoulders that you're not hiding. The secret of debt, whether it be enormous or not, and when you can tackle it together, and then you both, you know, I'd be looking at some of George's debt and I'm like, I'm thinking in my mind, like, that was a dumb purchase and he'll look at mine and probably think the exact same thing. But it's the response that you give to that person when they're showing this to you. It's not picking on them, it's not prodding on them. It's not beating them down for getting to the point where they are. And when you just attack it as a team and say, here's what we're doing. This is our debt, not your debt or my debt. It's like when we paid off one of George's credit cards, we'd be like, george, how good do we feel one of your credit cards is off? Now that is where we did Give ownership, because it's a victory. Like, I love to have it. My credit card, I'd have for 10 years.

She got to pay all hers off before my. I'm just.

I love it.

But that was a big thing. That was a big thing for us. And so there are different layers that we really went through together. And the. And the miscarriage thing, I think people just, you know, you had mentioned people reach out, and they do. And the biggest thing I can tell them whenever I respond is like, whatever you do, don't make me the first person. Like, I hope I'm not the first person that you shared this with, because some of these people I don't really know that well, and it's like, man, like, they're living life with that bottled up. I'm not saying you have to go put a post on Facebook. It is something that we did. I did it more so because of the platform that I have, and I did it because I knew that it would perhaps help other people.

We also, you know, same thing with the debt. We told a lot of people, like our close friends, and we. We really do pride ourselves on our friend, our friend group, and our family, because we are blessed to have very good friends and very good family. So, you know, a lot of our friends are close friends. So we're not going to hide, you know, pregnancy or our finances from them. So when we were getting out of debt, we told them. When we had gotten pregnant, we had told them. So these people were along the journey with us, too. Now, with her platform, she did have a lot of people that were following her and kind of had a little idea. So of course, we wanted them to be brought along as well. But, you know, it is something that we decided we wanted to share with our community. But feeding off what she said was people sharing it with us, I can't tell you, even to me as a guy, you know, women, moms coming up to me and saying, you know, well, I had one. Well, I would have never known. Nobody would have ever known. And it does bring a little bit of weight off your shoulders, making you feel like you're not alone in the situation. And for a guy, it's a lot different than it is for the girl in that scenario, especially the girls, because they feel that they're in this own room, secluded from everybody. But for a guy, it's, you know, you're there trying to be the sturdy rock for your wife the entire time, and then you feel like, okay, well, I got some other rocks here to help me now. This is awesome. You know, you suddenly don't feel alone either. And not saying it didn't hurt me, but it definitely hits the woman a lot differently than it hits the man.

Yeah, I love that. And I hope people listening and watching, you know, them talking about sharing and maybe, you know, maybe you don't feel compelled to share as widely as they did. And that's okay. It's gonna look a little different for everyone. But don't keep it in. Cause I hear you both saying that there's healing in sharing it with your loved ones and knowing you're not alone and just knowing that people are praying for you and that they are encouraging you. And, you know, did that help you when people would come up and, I mean, how was that, Barclay? Cause I know you did share it, like you said. I mean, Barclay is a very well known anchor in Augusta, Georgia. She's amazing. And so there's a lot of people who follow her. And, you know, so I know that, that, you know, like you have a lot of people. Was that. How did you feel about them asking you about the miscarriages?

So at first, I actually, I'll be very honest. At first, when people would email me or message me, and I appreciated the prayers in the. I'm sorry. But when they would share like, you'll get through this. I had one too. I honestly could not. I could not care less.

Right.

Because to me, that was not the same experience. They weren't in my situation. Like, that's. And I think that that's part of that. That process of grief that you go through is like anger. And so while I put it out there, it wasn't directed towards that person. It was just like, I just didn't care.

Yeah.

You know, so I think that the reason I had put it out there is to let people know, yeah, you're not alone. But in a weird way, I was also like that. I can't take this now. I'll tell you that. Four, five months later. Loved it. Yeah, loved it. Because then I got to process it and I could reflect and be like, oh, my gosh, I really am not alone. This person had it. And it gave me hope for the next time. Because then I saw they have a family. They got four or five kids. I heard about one woman who had. She'd gone through 14 miscarriages. A friend of ours went through five. And at the time I was like, I could never stomach five. Well, heck, I had like three or four. So, you know, before you know it. And so each time it Gets a little easier. But I did really, I really loved it after the fact. So, you know, that's good to know.

And I love that you're just being so honest about that, because I do think too, that the feelings, whenever you're grieving, they are all over the place, you know, I mean, you can, like, you know, one day you're just sad, one day you're so mad. Mad at God, mad at other people, mad at those who don't understand or who feel like they do understand, but they really don't. I mean. Cause you only. Only you two can understand the grief, the very, you know, particular grief you're going through. And so I love that, you know, those of you who are watching and listening, give yourself grace. Like, if you're walking through this, give yourself grace. Give your spouse grace to process that. And I think that's one thing you guys have definitely done so right in this. And I love that you're speaking out so clearly about this and giving each other room, room to grieve, room to process. You know, that's huge.

And the other thing too, that we really always tell people as we were going through that financial process is that we never missed a tithe. And that was really cool to watch because there were months that we were like, wow, we really could put this towards our debt. And when we chose not to, that next month a check would show up from over overpaid taxes or something, or something off the wall. And we even got as significant as one month, we had something come in extra that was like $2,400. Wow, you could have. You could have. We were.

The Lord really blessed us for, you know, and again, we knew that we wouldn't do it, but we could feel the devil tempting us to take that tithe and put it towards. And we knew that we wouldn't. But of course, that thought is still lingering.

We love to watch the Lord work. I mean, it was cool. See, we weren't testing him. It was like, I'm giving this and I am praising you when I give, and I can't wait to see what you do.

I love that.

And so that was cool.

Yeah, it was. It really was. And I will say this as well, and it was on a different note on both the finances and the miscarriages. You know, not all of it's glamour either. And I'm not talking about the hardships that we each feel, but there are times where you have some differences in opinion or how you're handling something. And of course, especially with the emotions that are going through both of your heads and different emotions going through your heads. We did have a couple hardships where we. We had some serious talks. And I mean, and I think both of us realized later on a lot of it was due to just anger or a misconstrued understanding of the other person's opinion or representation of opinion. And we would talk through it. I mean, sometimes real late at night, sometimes real early, sometimes we just needed some space from each other. Sometimes we needed to hold each other and just put it behind us. So I do want to also tell anybody who is listening, like, it's not always going to be the best thing ever. It's not going to be roses and candy in overcoming challenges. And if you trust in the Lord and just love your partner and love your wife, your husband, whoever it may be, you will get through it.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah. That is so powerful, man. And you guys are such an inspiration of how you've just. You've walked through this valley with a lot of shared pain, and through it all, you've held onto God, you've held onto each other, and the way that you've grieved and the way that you've continued to trust the Lord has brought hope to so many. And we're about out of time. I could talk to you guys all day, but before we wrap up, is there any news? Maybe any news?

That's good news.

This is the most exciting part.

Yes.

A week after we got out of debt, we found out we were pregnant. Literally, the day we found out we were pregnant was the same month that we found out last year we were first pregnant. And then we have some genetic testing that came back not so great. And it hit us for a second. And then it's like we had this whole year to look back and reflect and be like, wow, you know what? We're going to be okay. And if we were chosen to be the parents for a baby that has special needs, then God bless us. Like, we'll take. We're up for the challenge, and we feel honored to be that. So we are super. We're super excited.

We are so.

We're so.

We are. And we're still waiting on some tests to come back. Still. And even then, I mean, we are just ecstatic with what is going on. God has blessed us with a lot. And that's, you know, it's not going to change anything of how we raise and love for a child.

Yes.

I love that.

It's awesome.

I mean, it's. Yes. I just am so excited for you guys and this precious new baby. And, you know, we're gonna keep you all in our prayers, especially as you're waiting. Tess, I know that can be nerve wracking, but I love how you, you know, we always say this on the Naked Marriage podcast that, you know, when we're going through trials that it really can become our testimony. It can really make us grow stronger. It can really bring us closer together if we allow it to. And like you said, George, I mean, it's not sunshine and roses. I mean, it's some hard, long days, lots of talking, lots of working through things. But you can grow closer together. And you guys, I mean, you're still early in your marriage and you've gone through so much more than lots of people go through in their entire marriage. And you have come through it and you're still going through it. And I just commend you all and we're rooting for you guys and we just love you all and we're just so grateful for you to share your story. And I know you're inspiring so many listening and watching today.

Yeah, you have, you've given a lot of love.

I appreciate you guys.

We really appreciate y'. All. And, and you know, we also read Yalls book, the Naked Marriage, and that's helped us out. There's a lot of things. Again, we have great friends and great families supporting us, including y'.

All.

Oh, well.

Well, we. We love you guys and we love. And those who are watching listening to this, if maybe you're in a season where there. There have been infant, there have been infertility or there have been miscarriages, and you've been grieving in this very, very personal way. And. And our prayers are with you as well. You know, every one of these situations is so unique and so personal. And so I don't want to give, like, kind of blanket statements to in any way cheapen the very unique experience and the unique pain that you felt. But just know that Jesus is with you in that and he has a plan for you and he loves you and he is going to carry you through that. And we just join you in praying that he would fulfill that desire that you have in your heart for a family and that he would bring that to pass. And we are believing, you know, that to be true. Just like the story of Hannah in the Bible that Barclay referenced, I think that is a desire that when God puts on your heart, he means to fulfill. And we just, we celebrate George and Barclay that that's happening for you guys now, and I just. I can't wait to meet this little baby and spoil him or her and just buy him a bunch of junk food and all kinds of stuff. Thank you. And look, knowing you two, he's gonna. He's gonna be a cute kid for sure. Of course.

Clearly.

Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Probably grow up to be a movie star or something.

Well, thank you guys again for joining us.

Thank you.

Absolutely. Looking forward to hugging his neck and introducing him to the world.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. I just loved what Barclay and George had to share with all of us, and I hope that in inspired you and gave you hope as well. And we just. Thank you guys so much for joining us. We'll see you next time.