Is Homemade Porn Okay Within Marriage? | Dave and Ashley Willis

Hey, guys. We are joining you live from a quick date night, a Monday night in.

A random parking lot, giving up some of our precious time away to connect with you guys.

Yes.

And Merry Christmas. We're in that season.

Yes, we are.

And if you're watching this later, you know, it's not a Christmas video, so it's not seasonally specific, but if you're watching it live, it's. It's December, so.

That's right. It's crazy. Like, I can't believe it's December. This has been a crazy year. But I'm glad it's December. We love Christmas, and tonight was kind of an early Christmas dinner for us.

That's right.

And so we wanted to come to.

You, though, getting out that much. All of our shopping's been on Amazon.

Yes.

So now we're. We're out and we're like, let's do a video. And. And what are some of the messages we've been getting? And we've got kind of a steamy topic tonight.

I'm gonna put my glasses on so I can see what.

You're right. You know, I had Lasik a while back. I've got old man eyes. I'm old. You know, my eyes are older than hers, but I got Lasik and now I have, like, laser eyes. So. Several people have written a really good question and an honest question. We talk a lot about pornography and the dangers of pornography. You know, I had a past struggle with pornography. We've done a lot of research about the damages of porn in our modern culture and specifically in marriage. And we've. I'm not going to belabor that point because you can check out the Naked Marriage podcast in our book the Naked Marriage by Dave and Ashley Willis to learn a lot about those kind of topics. But we've had some people write in and say, okay, I get that, like, porn. Watching other people have sex is probably not the best thing for our marriage. Bringing other people virtually into our bedroom, having these fantasies about other people maybe aren't the best thing. But what about this situation? They'll say, like, you know, my husband or my wife, they're deployed in the military. Or maybe we have to be apart for work sometimes, and. Or maybe we just. We just kind of like having this option of if we create porn for each other, what is that?

Together?

Together or for each other? Like, can we video ourselves having sex and then watch it later for our own personal enjoyment? Can we kind of have this kind of like, virtual. Virtual sexual encounters and. And masturbate to that, to our spouse. And. And. And like, just, you know, I mean, the Bible clearly is not written at a time when those things even existed. And so, like, is this part of the freedom that we have? Because the Bible gives us a ton of freedom to, within marriage, express ourselves sexually. But what are your thoughts on this? And so, guys, listen, we don't claim to be like, you know, the final word on this stuff. We just like having these conversations with you because a lot of this, we're trying to figure it out as we go as well. This is not something that we do in our marriage. You know, I don't look good enough even with my shirt off, for me to want to document it on video anywhere.

You look amazing.

I'll stop, but you're too kind. So my initial thoughts on this, A couple things. Number one, I think anything that is just between you and your spouse is, you know, as long as both of you are comfortable with it and it's only between the two of you. I think you have a ton of freedom. But we live in a world where things that we think are just between the two of us go up into the cloud and we don't have control of where it goes. Right.

So that's the dangerous part.

Right. We can say it's just between the two of us, but once we record stuff, you know, we don't know. It could be out there on the Internet. We just don't know.

Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, this isn't like your circa 1980s, 1990s camcorder that you have your videotape that you put in a special place where your kids can't find it. I mean, your kids are on your cell phone where maybe you're recording this. Like, I don't think they'd love finding that. You know, pretty traumatizing for everybody involved.

Right.

And so those are the things that you just really have to consider. I mean, biblically speaking, you know, some of you on here, I saw one comment, they were like, you know, why are you guys even caring what's going on in anybody's bedroom? We personally don't. But a lot of you write us and say, what's the biblical answer?

I'm not trying to be the referee. No, understand what we're saying here, we're not here to be like the referee of your sex life.

No.

But this whole page and what we feel like God has called us to is to be encour of married couples and to do a lot of study and research as to what's healthy within Marriage, what's biblical and to learn that and apply that in our own marriage and then to help couples. Because a lot of couples look to.

Us like they write these questions because we don't know who to go to. You know, and this is a good question. And you know, the people who've been writing us lately, I can tell it comes from a place of really wanting to do things, you know, in a Christian way. They want to make sure they're not doing anything that is directly against what God has designed for a marriage. And so I commend that in being willing to ask these questions. And that's why we're, we're going there and answering this. Because to be honest with you all, I don't, I mean there's not a lot about this online and honestly, I wouldn't encourage you to search for it because who knows what you're asking if.

You start googling this stuff. Yeah, I will say coming back to the original porn topic, you know, porn and this, whenever we say like, oh, porn is wrong, porn is bad, some people say like, oh my gosh, that's so close minded, that's judgmental. You know, it's not your business. You know, it's not my business what you do. But however, statistically.

Christian and non Christian.

Yeah, both Christian and secular, Biblically, I can point to like countless Bible verses that say this is not God's best for you to virtually bring someone else into your marriage. I mean, I can point to that over and over from personal experience, having had a past struggle with pornography, I can walk you through my experience of having to like come off of that almost like a drug addict coming off of heroin and what that did to poison my mind. And I'll in those early years even poisoned our marriage. And then outside of my experience, even outside the Bible, just pointing to neuroscience, pointing to psychological research, pointing to sites like fighthenewdrug.com I can give you tons of research that says pornography in and of itself when you're watching other people have sex, fantasizing to that, even factoring out the fact that it's fueling human trafficking and rape culture and a lot of other things, even just, even if it really is consenting adults that are doing this as actors, the damage that it's done to both the consumer and the actors in that is so far reaching I could spend. Trust me, I've done way more research in this than I even. I wish I could.

Just wish you didn't have to.

Wish I didn't have to.

Which wasn't a thing.

But it's a huge issue. Your life will be better off without it. The world will be better off without it. But again, in this video, we're talking about making videos just for each other or for our own personal use, you know, enjoying. Enjoying that. Is that okay? And again, I can't point to anything that says it's wrong. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, there's nowhere in the Bible that says, thou shalt not, you know, make a video of the two of you having sex and watch it later and enjoy it. I think within your marriage, you've got a ton of freedom. However, like, kind of part of that thing we're coming back to is you don't always have control of what's gonna happen to that after the fact.

And a lot of people are writing on here, Dave, like somebody said, well, what if. You know, I hope this doesn't happen, but what if later on you do get divorced? And what if they use it against you?

And then there's. There's a revenge porn culture. There's this whole thing, don't look this up either, but there's a whole culture of what's called revenge porn, of people who've done this in dating or marriage, relationships. They've made these videos and then they break up or they get divorced. And then their whole site's dedicated to being able to post that and to try to shame your ex girlfriend or boyfriend or spouse or whatever. Right now that's a whole separate issue. But I'm just saying, like, even if you're gonna stay together forever, you don't have control over where all this goes. Like, I don't understand the technology enough. I'm not Mark Zuckerberg. I don't know what happens to some of this stuff once I record it on my phone. Thankfully, I don't have any videos of myself or pictures. Yeah, because nobody wants to see that. I mean, probably you don't even want to see it.

Sweetie, I love it. I love it. But this is the thing is, is you just don't know where that can go. Yeah. And I saw somebody else on here saying. I guess there's some people saying, well, that's not true. You know, again, maybe you are, like a tech wizard and you get how to, like, make this safer. But I'm telling you, there's so many loopholes. I mean. Yeah, there's just so many ways that this. We've had people write us about that.

I thought that we had recorded this safely and securely, and then the Next thing I know, there had been this.

You know, somebody came in and hacked it, or, you know, my kids saw it or whatever. It's just. Yeah. So that's. That's what you have to kind of consider. Is the risk involved, again, inherently, is it bad if it's just the two of you and you're enjoying it together? You're not bringing in another person into your bedroom? Biblically, it's not wrong. But again, there's no Bible verses specifically talking about making your own homemade porn. I mean, like, that's not something that was ever.

Smartphones did not exist.

Yes, exactly.

But I think that there is a lot about just kind of wisdom and is it the wise thing to do? And, you know, that's. That's the separate issue, and I can't answer that for you.

Right.

But when we really get to the heart of, like, what's the wise thing to do here? Is this really gonna help us without having unintended consequences? Because a lot of times in life, it's the unintended consequences that really. That really get us. And I think this is one of those areas. Where are the unintended consequences worth, you know, the, you know, the momentary high of being able to, like, record and have this and.

And, you know, well, and odds are there's one spouse like, it. Let's say this has been in your conversation in your home, and you're in your marriage bed. Like, you guys have talked about this. There's usually one spouse that is really into it and excited about it, and.

Probably the guy, let's be honest, it's probably the husband like, that just. I mean, wants to whack off to it later, and he's like.

I mean, it's kind of a strong term, but, you know, I'm just being honest.

It's like, it's. It's probably rarely the woman that's like, I really just want a bunch of. Maybe it is. And I'm not shaming you if that's your. Your marriage. But I think the stories we've heard, it's usually been the guy that's pressing this issue because he wants, you know, he. He. He wants.

And I'm not saying ask me this, though, so sometimes I think the women are.

Yeah. You know, it's probably a wrong. I. Generalization for me to say that.

I do think there's probably more men that have asked about this than women, just statistically.

And again, you know, porn itself is consumed by a lot of men and a lot of women, but it's still primarily produced by and for men.

Absolutely.

I mean, it's still. At least three fourths of the viewing audience is still. Is still men, even though, you know, a lot of women.

There are a lot of women. And I want to say this, though. I think sometimes this can put you in a dynamic where. Let's say you do this and then you watch it together, where one spouse can feel like they're being coached on what to do or what not to do and being judged maybe about their body or about the positions or about this and that. And that can be really demoralizing. And so you don't want to fall into that kind of dynamic.

It turns into, like this halftime. Like, let's watch this tape together. Okay, sweetie, this move right here. You really. And I'm seeing some cellulite here. You need to.

I mean, seriously. I mean, come on.

Yeah, you got it.

You don't want that. Like, that's going to really put a rift between the two of you, and it's going to take away, you know, really what sex is supposed to be. It's supposed to be this very vulnerable, mutually satisfying and beautiful union of a husband and a wife. And so you just have to consider all those things. And I know a lot of you are commenting on here and.

Do you guys have any home videos? No. Thank you. Thank God. Because, you know, I'm not confident enough in. In my own. My own figure or.

We just don't trust technology.

No, I. Yeah, I like. Yes.

And we have four boys at home.

We have four boys. I'm not good enough with technology. I don't know how to set up a tripod. It's. There's a lot of moving parts that. But I also. I also don't. I don't trust what could happen to that Apple.

No, I really don't. I mean, it just. Yeah, it's a big risk, definitely.

So we're not. And, like, we're never saying something's wrong because we do it or don't do it. We never want to have that mindset. We're entering into this conversation with you guys because people write us these kinds of questions, and they write us on the podcast. And if you're not listening to it, by the way, our podcast is called the Naked Marriage Podcast with David and Ashley Willis. Also the name of our book, the Naked Marriage, and it's called the Naked Marriage, not only because we talk about sex naked in a physical sense, but because God's original design for marriage, back in Genesis, they were naked and unashamed. It's a picture of emotional, spiritual, physical nakedness, vulnerability. It's saying, I have no secrets. I have nothing to hide from you. We accept each other just as we are. We don't hide anything from each other. And that's still the ultimate design for marriage. And we talk about how to get that, how to keep that. So, yeah, do you have a home? You know, Lee said, do you have a home?

Because we're always gonna say, yeah, we.

Talk about this sometimes.

This is our quiet place.

We are not homeless. Thankfully, we do have a house, but we have four boys who live in it. And so the only quiet place that we can find is when we're out in our minivan, like, on a little fabulous mini quick day. Yeah. So we're living large in this used minivan.

We love it.

So, yeah, high rollers. So that's why we come to you live from the minivan, and that's why we started it, but then it kind of became our shtick, and so we just kind of kept it.

It's like, where it truly is quiet. The kids don't. I mean, this is only when we're traveling and, like, taking them to school activities that they're in the minivan.

So, yeah, our house is never quiet. Even our dog is always trying to get up in the middle of our stuff.

Oh, my goodness.

Jackie said, naked Marriage completely transformed my marriage from almost split. Jackie, thank you for sharing that. That means so much. We read, by the way, all of your reviews and comments on the Naked Marriage podcast and on the Naked Marriage book when you guys leave reviews about all that we do.

And speaking about the podcast, I want to give a plug for that. We have a really awesome episode for this week. It just dropped today, and it's entitled Marriage and Racism, which is a very needed conversation.

Oh, yeah. We're talking to an amazing couple, our dear friends, Tim and Juliet Ross. Tim is a pastor in the Dallas area where the ministry is based, and we love them, and they have such insight in me because there's a lot of tension in our world right now around these issues. And so we had a really good conversation, and their. Their insight challenged me. It helped me see things from a new perspective. And yes, and they also had some marriage insights that were really, really moving because they've been married a long time. So, you know, check that out. We have some really cool conversations on the podcast, and this is a free resource. So naked Marriage Podcast, YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, Podbean, wherever you are, you can find the Naked Marriage Podcast Dave and Ashley Willis. And yeah, I think that's about all we have to say about homemade porn. It's kind of like.

Yeah, but we wanted to answer it, you guys. Like, there is nothing that you could ask us that we wouldn't at least try to find an answer for. Yeah, and that's like the whole thing with being naked and unashamed. You know, when, when God created Adam and Eve, they were naked and unashamed, meaning there's no secrets, there's nothing that's shameful that they can't actually address. And, and, you know, that's why we do what we do. We want to have a place, a safe place where we can talk about these things. And, you know, we don't always know the answers, but we do go to the, the best marriage book there is, which is the Bible, and we try to find the answers. And if we can't find it there, we try to. To look back at just who God is and what he calls us to and, and whatever is consistent with his will for our lives and what, what we know in the Bible. And that's what we try to bring you. And so, yeah, because we're all learning this. We're all learning this, and we. None of us have ever arrived in marriage, no matter how long we've been married. And because we're always changing and the seasons of marriage are changing, and so there's always something we can learn.

You're both brilliant and beautiful. I don't know how she does it. Hey, guys, we appreciate you again. Merry Christmas. I know it's a fun but also potentially stressful time of year, so it's been a weird year, too. So, you know, this year in particular has a lot of highs and lows, but praying God's blessings for you and your family this year again, check out the Naked Marriage podcast, Dave and Ashley Willis. New episodes all through the whole holiday season and beyond. And you can also check out Our Ministries website, xomarriage.com for a full list of live events and, and blogs and videos, resources and books and all kinds of stuff. Exomarriage.com and we also have, I mean.

Just a little plug real quick. If you know anybody who is engaged or seriously dating getting ready to be married, have them check out our pre marriage podcast. And you can also find out more information about an amazing resource@premarriage.com because we really love that it's another premier. The premarriage podcast is totally free, like the Naked Marriage Podcast, but it is totally geared towards engaged or seriously dating couples. And so even, like, I was listening to the podcast today, I think a lot of people who've been married a long time can even learn something from it because it's always good to go back and really talk through these issues. So, anyway, check it out.

Thanks again. We'll see you next time for the minivan. Bye, guys.