Marriage with Grit and Grace | Dave and Ashley Willis

Hey, friends, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We're Dave and Ashley Willis. On this podcast, we undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we've got a great guest for you today. She's actually a second time guest, so you know, she's good. If she's back again.

Yes.

And Jess, Ronnie, she is an author. She is just an extraordinary, extraordinary lady. And we're gonna share a little bit more about her story in a brand new book she and her husband Ryan have writt.

That's right. You may remember Jess, we had her on before where she talked about her book and Ryan was on here too. They talked about Blended with Grit and Grace, which was just a beautiful resource about blending families. They have an extraordinary story. I don't want to give too much away. Jess is going to give you kind of the Cliff notes versions of it in our episode. But Jess and Ryan are raising eight children and one of those kids is profoundly special needs and they talk a lot about that. Jess is a huge advocate for special needs families. She has made actually a documentary called Unseen and that's out now. Last time we interviewed her, she was working on it. It is out now. So definitely look into that. You can also contact her at jessplusthemest.com and she's all over Facebook. I believe she has several groups. You can look her up. Jessron. Excuse me. Jessroni. That's R O N N E. And today we're gonna talk about their brand new resource called Lovin with Grit and Grace. So let's dive in. Well, Jess, we are so excited to have you back. You are a fan favorite on the Naked Marriage podcast. And we just want to say welcome.

Well, thanks again.

Of course we're excited to talk to you about an upcoming book you have, Married with Grit and Grace. And Dave and I had the privilege of reading it, an advanced reader copy. And we were so fast to endorse this. Right, right, sweetie? Because it's awesome.

It really is. Your story is just, it's fascinating. I mean, when you sell the movie rights to your story, you need to go ahead and decide who's gonna play you and your husband and your family. Because it really, it's that kind of a story that you guys are living. It's so full of inspiration, but also some really like harrowing and difficult moments that you guys have come through together. Your faith is so authentic and the way that you write and speak and talk from the trenches of living in some just some real life challenges, I think it just gives so Much hope to people. So thank you for your transparency and your courage in sharing.

Yes. Well, you know, I just followed suit. You guys wrote a very similar book, and I don't think you really change lives without getting honest and vulnerable about what you've gone through. And that's our whole intent in sharing our story, is to help other people.

Well, and that's what I love it. I mean, and the title really captures it because you really do talk about having grit and grace in marriage and all the, the stuff that people go through. And, you know, I know some people will have heard you before on the Naked Marriage podcast, but if you could kind of catch the rest of the listeners up to kind of a little snippet. I know there's a lot to your story, but maybe a little snippet of who you are and kind of what you've walked through and kind of have has led you to this point.

Yeah, I'm just the Cliff notes version. In 2004, I went to what I thought was a routine ultrasound appointment for my second child, and I found out he had suffered a stroke in utero. They said there was very little hope, and they suggested terminating that pregnancy. My husband Jason and I decided to put the baby in the Lord's hands and just have faith that his will would be done. And Lucas came out screaming with life on August 12, 2004. And two weeks later, we were discharged from the NICU with like an admonishment of good luck, here's your baby. And it was like, okay. So we went from death. This baby will never make it to here you go. And that was my induction into the world of special needs parenting. I didn't really care what that was going to even look like. I mean, I was going home with a baby when I had been told there would be no baby. So I was happy to take whatever came our way. Fast forward a couple of years. Jason and I had a baby daughter in 2007, and immediately after she was born, he started having all these health problems. He went to specialist after specialist and they did that. He had a brain tumor. He fought it for three years. We unexpectedly became pregnant again in the middle of that cancer battle. Baby Joshua was born September 15, 2009. And then Jason passed away August 24, 2010. I was a 33 year old widow with four children under six. And then a couple of months later, I had been blogging through that whole journey, just keeping the masses updated. And a stranger from Pennsylvania followed my blog and just reached out to me. She said, there's a young widower in Oklahoma. He has three young children. His wife passed away from a brain tumor four days after Jason did. He's, whoops, yanking my headphones out here. He's not doing very well. I just think you could be a source of encouragement to him. So I reached out, left a message on his blog, and the rest is history. We were married within the year. He moved to Michigan. We adopted each other's kids, moved to the middle of nowhere in rural Tennessee, had a baby together. Our eighth and final. What else happened? Rural Tennessee became overwhelming as our son Lucas began going through puberty with aggression and behaviors and everything. So then we moved towards Nashville, thinking that would help with resources that did not help either. The south is not very good when it comes to resources for special needs families. So last year we moved back to Michigan, my hometown. We built an accessible home for Luke. And I think that's it. I think you're caught up, man.

I mean, it's so much, right? Yeah, it's so much to walk through.

And, well, every aspect of the story is really incredible and it's its own incredible story, but you put it all together and it's just.

It's amazing. And to have a smile on your face and to be able to talk so eloquently about this, Jess, I mean, I clearly, you are so strong in the Lord and just so courageous and you do shed light on so many things. You know, last time we had you on, we talked a lot about, you know, special needs families and, like, what churches can do and what people who maybe don't have special needs kids but can love on these families and can stand in the gap for these families. And I love how you do that. So, guys, if you're listening to this, please go back and listen to the previous episode we had with Jess because we talk more about that particular aspect of her life, which is just amazing. And she has a documentary called Unseen. And it's just there's so many things that she's got so many plates going, so many awesome things. But today we want to talk about this particular resource that she's put out, Married with grit and Grace and the vulnerability they share in there. Because, you know, your husband also writes in this book and it's just so beautiful. And I know when I wrote you via email, Jess, I was like, this is just. You guys write so beautifully, so raw and real, but also offering really practical advice. And I just wanted to ask you, like, what do you hope when people read this book? What, what do you really Hope they gain from, from reading it.

Well, we made a minor change. It's actually lovin with grit and grace.

Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, okay, great.

That just, that came about a month ago. We went back and forth and back and forth. So it's now loving with grit and grace, married with grit and grace. And I think I just want people, you know, there's this underbelly of even faith based marriages that nobody talks about, nobody gets into the nitty gritty. And you guys did that really well in your book. Like, let's peel back that curtain. And that's, I think, the goal of everything I do in life, the documentary, the nonprofit, what I write. Let's, let's peel back all that, you know, all these pretenses of what a faith based marriage looks like because we all deal with our stuff and let's get real because you can't heal. And I think the whole purpose and goal of being a human being is to share our stories so that we can do better, be better for each other. And also within the context of marriage, if nobody's communicating, you know, that doesn't, that doesn't mean there aren't any problems. It's just, it just means nobody's willing to talk about the problems. And I think that's hopefully what our stories will start to bring forth some of these conversations. And I mean, honestly, I don't really see many men reading the book. It's more of like for the wives. But then they can bring maybe some of our stories and say, hey, is this something that we should address within our marriage? I see some of these same tendencies and just open up some of that communication for healing to occur. I mean, marriages in America, in the world aren't doing very well and even within the Christian sphere are not doing very well. So if our book can help a couple of them, then, then we've done our job, I think.

I love that.

I love it. And as a man who did read the book, I want to challenge the men out there. Like, this is for you too. Like, it is so full of inspiration and practical, practical tips. We guys like to be practical and there's a lot of it in there. And you don't have to have a situation exactly like Jess family. I mean, every situation is different, but what you will pull out of it is in whatever struggle you're facing, how you can love your family with more grit and more grace. And I love that. I just love that phrasing. Because every family needs that, every person needs that. Both the grit, the toughness and the grace, you know, the tenderheartedness, the love, the trust in God, believing the best in each other, and how you describe what that looks like and feels like in your family, in your faith, in your marriage. It's so beautiful and inspiring and challenging. And I'm just. I'm convinced that those who read this book are going to. They're really going to be impacted by it.

I think so too. You know, Jess, I'd love to hear what you think or thought. You know, kind of was the toughest thing to write about in this book, because I know every book has it. Every book has, especially when it's a vulnerable book. I know for us, with Counterfeit Climax, there were parts that were tough to write and put out there.

My mom's gonna read this. Oh, my gosh. No.

Like, woo, but. And I know this is that same kind of book where it's very raw and real. What would you say were some of those tough parts to write?

Yeah. Ryan and I had a similar conversation about, like, do you think our mothers are gonna read this book? Should we maybe tell them they're not allowed to read this book?

Right, right. Or certain chapters at least. Mom, skip this one.

Right. I think for me, it was the sex chapter. Like, I wrote a friend and was like, I don't know how to write about sex without, like, ushering people into my bedroom. And she was like, you'll be great. I was like, yeah, but you have to write about that if you're gonna put a book out about marriage. I mean, that's a big part of a good marriage. And then I think exposing some of the addictions that we talk about in the marriage. I won't go into detail about those. You need to read them. I want people to read the book. But exposing some of the most painful parts of our marriage and walking through those. And we're also big believers in not sharing until we've completely healed from whatever the issue is. And we considered even writing about some of these things in blended with grit and grace, but just didn't feel complete wholeness and healing in regards to some of those issues yet at that point. So we held off knowing that in the future we were probably going to address these things, but it wasn't time yet. And Ryan even kind of went back and forth and then read some statistics on Focus on the Family with some of these issues and was like, yeah, it's time to. It's time to go there. People are starting to talk about this stuff and it's time for us to share. So we did. Good for you people.

I'm so glad you did, you know, and I feel like it's hard to write about this stuff and to even talk about this stuff, especially when it comes to sexual issues or addiction issues, because it is. It's very like you said, Jess. I mean, you really don't want to speak and write about that until you've had some healing taking place, you know what I'm saying? Because. And I. And I feel like that's biblical, because when you're in. You know, not that you don't have something to say or offer when you're in the middle of it and maybe to close friends, but to put it out publicly, you had to do a lot of processing. You had to do a lot of healing and a lot of talking together and being, like, okay with it, you know, And I know that's. That's definitely our story, too. It's like, you know, years past where we're. Okay, we're feeling good about really sharing with people what we've learned about this. And, you know, I. I love books like this because I do think that it. It gives people that there's such power in speaking the truth of what's really going on. And you guys really point to that. And I know that this book is going to be something where it gives them sometimes the words. I think sometimes people don't talk about the hard things because they don't even know the words to say. And they're like, I'm going to mess it up. I'm going to make it worse than it is, or I'm going to maybe not tell the whole truth. And I feel like in this, with your book, it's going to help them, you know, have, I don't know, the courage and even the words to share. Don't you think so, sweetie?

Exactly. Yeah. That's what I meant when I said practical earlier. I think it gives people a roadmap where their story's not going to look exactly like yours. But the principles can apply universally to conversations and challenges when you're struggling and when you're on different pages and when you're facing challenges you never thought you would expect, like, how do. What does it look like to walk through that? And I just. I know it's going to be so helpful because actually, you're right. I think a lot of couples, they just avoid the difficult conversations or when they face a challenge they weren't expecting, they try to deal with it on their own or they they hide from it. And really, God allows us to face certain situations so that we can lean on him more and we can lean on each other more. We're not meant to face any of it alone. And this book was a beautiful reminder of that.

Definitely. You know, I want to say something, and I mentioned this last time we were talking with you, but I want to mention it again because, you know, you guys, you and your husband and all of your beautiful kids, you guys juggle so much. You know, there's so much in your work life, but in your family life with the special needs and also being an advocate, I mean, you are majorly an advocate for special needs families, which I just think is just so awesome. I follow you online. I love seeing all the things that you're doing. How do you, in the midst of all this, find time for each other? Like, what's your best tip for finding time for each other? Because we get that question all the time. Like, people say that they're like, you know, we're in the thick of raising kids. We have these careers, we have passions, we have things that we know God's called us to. It's really hard to find time. So what would you say to that, Jess?

I think for us, you prioritize what's important, and for us, it is very, very important to give our kids the gift of a healthy, intact marriage someday.

Yes.

Their childhoods have been extremely chaotic and busy, especially with a profoundly disabled brother. And we want their adulthood and the next generation to have an intact family to come home to. Like, I just picture this huge table with all my kids and grandkids and, like, looking at Ryan, like, we did it, like, by God's grace, somehow we did it. And tangibly speaking, prioritizing, you know, we have eight kids and an 18 year old who is profoundly disabled.

Right.

I look for babysitters and respite like it's gold. Like, I search for this like my life depends on it. Because I truly do believe my life depends on it.

Yeah.

Ryan and I got married with seven kids. We knew in order for our marriage to make it, we had to carve out those weekly date nights, even if, you know, we had to get creative about it. And, like, in the middle of COVID we had a travel trailer in our backyard. We put a teenager in charge of the kids inside for a couple hours, and we went to the travel trailer and ordered pizza and watched a movie. That's awesome.

I love it.

Connect with each other. We walk together every morning. We pray before we get on with our day, it's just those little pockets of time together that you need to consistently do. And I think consistency is a word that I mention often in the book, because consistency, you know, becomes these rhythms in your life, and then it just becomes second nature, and you're just, like, consistently sewing into your marriage. And that's what's gonna make a life together and a successful life together. So it's, you know, you look like you wanna say something.

Yeah.

I hear so many people make excuses about why they can't do a date night or why they're too busy. And I look at you and Ryan, and I'm like, if Jess and Ryan can do this consistently, there is nobody on earth that has a legitimate excuse for why they can't do it. And it just comes down to priorities. You just. You find a way to do what's important, guys. And so you let that be a challenge. You take away from this, like, here's. Here's a couple that had every excuse in the world to just put that on the back burner and just say, you know, that's not going to be something that we have. But they're like, no, our marriage is the foundation of this family. And for that to be strong, for the family to be strong, our marriage is going to be strong. And for our marriage to be strong, we have got to get creative, we've got to get tenacious, and we've got to prioritize our time together, even if it means, you know, putting a kid in charge in the house and going to the travel trailer and watching a movie and having that quiet alone time. Just as husband and wife. Like, every couple needs that. So when I hear guys, they'll go out of their way to, like, you know, plan a golf trip with their buddies or whatever else, but they'll act like, you know, going out on a date with their wife, like, oh, you know, we can't find a babysitter. This. That. Like, I just. I just want to slap them. I'm like, you are an idiot. Like, I mean, that's a. I mean, you're not really. We have. I don't. I don't have compassion for that because.

I'm very black and white.

I do not have compassion for that because.

Well, I have compassion in the sense where I don't think they've come to the place of knowing the value. They don't know. They just don't know the value of it.

But just say that. Just say you don't value it.

True.

Instead of saying, oh, I Wish we could. And then play pretending like you're a martyr and a victim like, I wish we could. It's like you, you can, well, look at these other things in your life that you do all the time. And it's very true.

I mean, some tough love there. And you know, you mentioned respite care, Jess. I know what that is. But for other people who may not know what that is. Can you describe what respite care is for the audience?

Yeah. With special needs families, you know, it's finding that specialized care for your child with profound needs, like, requires total care and he's still in diapers. So I mean, there aren't people lining up to babysit an 18 year old who has those kinds of needs. And speaking into even the date night too, respite care costs a lot of money. We can't find people for less than $20 an hour. And you know, I know our kids will look at us with our older vehicles that are paid for. But that's a priority again for us to pay that care so that Ryan and I can have our date because that's much more of a priority to invest in us and our relationship than driving, you know, the latest and greatest vehicle models. So it's just prioritizing, I think, what's important to you and making it happen however you need to make it happen.

Such a good point. I mean, it really is, it's like finding. Because you do hear people say either it's time, time issue or a budget issue, you know what I'm saying? But it's, it's like, you know, I'm with you on the. We, we want to drive. We were just talking about this the other day. It's like, we'll keep driving our old van.

We're there, we've got an old van. We actually, we actually yesterday went to a dealership because we're like, man, like a used. We got to trade, trade this in. And we were looking at the numbers and all this stuff and we will ultimately walked away and we're like, we're just going to keep our old van for a while because we don't want to, we don't want to take on debt. We don't want know it's not worth it. We'll, we'll keep tinkering with this thing and keep it running because we don't want to sacrifice in these other areas.

That's important to us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm totally, totally with you on that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Again though, it's just, it's finding a way to do what matters most and not making excuses. And Jess, you and Ryan are living proof that a couple, they can make their marriage a priority in any set of circumstances. They can have a thriving marriage if they will just do the work to make it a priority. And I just applaud you guys for that because we live in a world where people are so quick to put the marriage on the back burner. And you and Ryan leading this beautiful, thriving family with challenges that any family has, plus a bunch more that very few families have. And you're doing it with grit and grace. And if you guys can do it, then I think that there's something all of us can learn from your example. And so I'm just so thankful that you were willing to share your story.

Yes. And can you tell?

And I would say, you know, oh, sorry, go ahead. I would just say, too, having lost spouses, you know, we entered this marriage very intentionally too. And, you know, I've had people say, well, do I have to lose a spouse to be intentional in my next marriage? And I would say, no, I hope not. Like, just apply that, that mindset to the marriage that you're in. And I think anybody can definitely experience a better relationship.

Absolutely.

So good.

I want, I really. All the people listening, go and get this book, Loving with Grit and Grace. Am I saying so. Loving with Grit and Grace. Right? That's the official title. Loving with Grit and Grace.

Loving with the apostrophe.

I love it. And I love Loving with the apostrophe. That's how we say it anyway, so it's great. But where can they get this book? And when will it be out?

It'll be out in February, so February 2023. And I'm working on a study guide to go along with it. I guess the approval for that. So that's a whole other realm of new that I've never done before. So I'm hoping that it can be used in, you know, like, small group studies and within churches and just really help people out.

That's so awesome. It'll be available wherever books are sold.

I'm assuming, I'm assuming Amazon, Barnes and Noble, you know, awesome. All the normals.

Yes.

So, friends, tell. Tell your friends about this. Don't only get this for yourself, but also let your church know. Let your pastors know, Let people in your life know that maybe you're in a situation where they themselves have a special needs child. Of course, connect them to Jess and Ryan. But even beyond that, if just anybody in your life that needs a little encouragement in their marriage, in their family. This book could help them. But not only this book, but Jess, Other resources. So, Jess, where's the best place people can just connect with you if they want to find out more about what you're doing, the resources you already have available, they just want to follow your story for ongoing inspiration. Where can they go?

Well, I have a website, justpluss.com I don't do a lot on there. I'm more often on Facebook or Instagram at just Ronnie or justplusums.

Awesome. Well, we just love having you back on here, and we just thank you so much for taking the time and we'll be praying for you guys as you prepare for this whole new season with this resource and hope to have you on again in the future.

Awesome. Thank you. Thanks, Jessica.