Modern Dating and Marriage | The Naked Marriage Podcast | Dave and Ashley Willis & Jonathan Pokluda

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Yeah, that was a really so sweet, good one. Like, thank you. That was very, very kind. And that encouragement, it keeps us going. But even, Even more than that, that encouragement helps other people discover this podcast. And so by taking a minute to leave a review like that, you're actually partnering with us to just spread the message about what's going on here. So thank you so much for that. I am super excited about today's episode. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can actually see what's happening here. You're like, there's another dude in the studio. This, like, really tall, handsome dude that's sitting over there. Who is that? I'm glad you asked who it is. This is Jonathan. And JP is a legend around these parts, as we say. Just an amazing guy. He's currently the pastor of Harris Creek Baptist Church in Waco, Texas. He lives there with his lovely wife Monica and their three kids. Previously. Before that, he was the leader over a ministry called the Porch, which started out as 150 people. And he led that thing to growing to thousands and thousands of people and really becoming a movement of young adults. And in the process, really just became a voice, particularly in the relationship space for young adults. And he's a prolific writer and preacher and just a gifted communicator. He also has a powerful testimony about how he and his wife came to the Lord and overcame some past baggage to move forward in their own marriage in a really healthy way. So wherever you are in your life and in your relationship, there are going to be some powerful nuggets from JP today. And we're also going to be talking about his great new book called Outdated, which I strongly encourage you to pick up.

So.

So let's dive in. Well, like I said during the intro, I am super excited about our guest today. JP Pokluda or Jonathan Pokluda. And it's both. And we're going to spend the next 20 minutes talking about which one you prefer.

Riveting.

It's riveting. No, but he's a legend here in the Dallas area, where we're broadcasting from right now and even beyond that. Now, of course, he's in Waco, like I said during the introduction, but his ministry's reached far beyond the lone. He has helped countless people all over the world through his writings, through his sermons. And we're just. We're pumped that you're here.

Thanks for being here, Dave and Ashley. Thank you guys for having me. I'm excited to be here. What a great place and a great team, and it's a good morning. So thank you.

Yes. No, we're excited, and we're going to talk about something that we really haven't talked about a lot and needs to be talked about more, and that's dating. And so I'm excited about this conversation.

I am, too. I'm a little intimidated because I know the Bible says not to covet, but JP has a much better podcasting voice than me, and so, like, I wish mine was that low. I'm going to listen back to this. It's going to sound like Mickey Mouse talking to Barry White.

It's because I was. I had an event last night, and I tried to check into a Hotel at 1am in Dallas, and then I was like, you know what? I think I'm going to drive a little closer to you guys. And so then I made the drive at 1am and so this is my went to bed very late voice.

It sounds so nice.

It's a good voice.

In fact, we're going to keep you around and have you narrate our audio books. I love it, but we're thrilled that you're here. So, sweetie, you were saying something and I got sidetracked.

No, no, I was just talking about how I love that we're talking about dating today because we get a lot of questions about this for people who are really wanting to be married someday, but the dating scene is wearing them out. I mean, it's just wearing them out, and they don't really know how to approach it. And so I'm just really excited to hear what JP has to say because he's an expert in this area. And so I'm really excited.

He really is. And I'm excited for a number of reasons. I think, you know, for all you guys listening out there, everybody's going to have something they can pull from this conversation we're about to have. For those of you who are single, who are interested in marriage someday, and you're dating right now, this is going to be incredibly pertinent to where you are. But for those of you, and a lot of our audience, of course, is already married, this can help you in a number of ways. First off, if you've got kids, your kids, whatever age they are, it's going to be pretty soon, or maybe they're there already where they're going to be entering into this kind of, this whole dating reality. And this conversation could really help give you some, I don't know, some handles of how to lead your kids through that whole process. And then also for those of you who are married, we talk all the time about dating one another. We might even get some date tips for those who are already married. But, jp, to throw it over to you, you've had your thumb on the pulse for a long time of what's happening just kind of out there in the world and the way our world is looking at relationships right now and how so much is being redefined kind of. From what's the thousand foot view of the climate out there for people that are dating? What are you seeing?

It's the hardest it's ever been. And I think that's a really naive statement because I haven't always been. So I only have a perspective into the land or the time and space that I live in. But as I have researched the history of dating, where it comes from, how people have found each other throughout history, I believe we are facing new, unprecedented challenges. We've outsourced this to technology. It's now virtual. That changes the way boy meets girl. People are sliding into dms. And so that's the initial, you know, when you'd have to walk across the room and look in somebody's eyes and, and say something kind. Now you just, you know, direct message them. People are ghosting. So if I don't want to talk to you anymore, I just don't respond to your text message, and then we can go our separate ways. And so the Romans 12, 9 says, Love must be sincere. That is lost in the digital age of dating. We have more help than we've ever had. We have dating apps, dating websites, personality tests, compatibility tests, professional matchmakers. And yet we're getting married later, we're getting married less, and marriages aren't lasting. And so I think you have a generation that is losing hope in marriage. And in fact, they say about millennials, 25% to 30% of them may never get married. Like, not even desiring that. And so this amazing covenant, this gift from God that he's given us, we. We are perception. Our perspective of that is, is changing. And so I think that's that you're left with a bunch of single people who desire marriage and feel rather hopeless. Now, I do want to just say this because I think it's important because I do think the church has missed it in regards To I realize there's also a demographic of single people like Jesus, like Paul, like Timothy, who, Who don't desire marriage or they are single for the sake of the kingdom. And that's a high calling in the scripture. And. And I want to mention that as well.

I love that you mentioned that because we definitely don't want to make it seem like everybody has to get married because some people aren't called to that. So I love that. And it definitely affirms that there is a blessing in singleness as well. But, you know, when it comes to those who know in their heart they want to be married and they've dated and it's just not worked out and they're kind of limping through it, what would you say to that person?

Yeah, to the person who desires marriage feels forgotten. They're sitting in some level of despair or hopelessness or just like, man, what does the future hold? I would say press into the church. And I know that sounds a little bit ambiguous, but what I read in the scripture is there's, you know, relationships are community affairs, meaning that there are people around you when you're. When you're really involved in a church and well connected that you can reach out to and say, hey, can you help me find somebody? And that's not an act of desperation like Monica and I. And I bet you two, like, if somebody came up to you from your church and just said, hey, I just want you guys to know I desire marriage. If you know of anybody that you think I'd be a great match for, would you introduce me to them? Like, we would love that. That'd be a great, you know, really fun dinners. Hey, come sit down. Let us hear what you're looking for and talk through that and begin to invest in that person or potential couple. That would be a lot of fun for us. And I think that's lost today. And so that's what I would say to that person. Like, don't lose hope. Potentially change your strategy.

I love that. That is true. I mean, I think Dave always says, you don't say no for people, you know, which I tend to do. I'm like, oh, they're so busy. Or I don't want to seem weird. You know, we make all these excuses, but people who've been married a long time, we want to teach you what we know. And if you desire marriage and you are like, do you know anybody else who's single and desires marriage? I mean, that would be fun. You know, we're honored. Like, it's Us an honor like what you said. I mean, we feel honored to do that. Exactly.

So, yeah.

I love that.

Well, and some of our very dear friends at church, Wes and Kelly, they got together through that.

They did.

They did. Pastor. Our pastor. Connecting them together, knowing they were both in that season of wanting to take that next step toward marriage. And he's the one who made that introduction, you know, so it's true. I think. What better place to meet folks?

So, yeah, I don't know if you guys know this, but I did an arranged marriage contest. Now, that has. That's the headline is a little bit of shocking, but in reality, what it. That's what it was. It's like, hey, I'm not, you know, you're not going to meet at the altar, but I will. I will go through these or raise up a team to go through these. You know, over a thousand people entered into it, and. And we just. We looked for a match that we thought would be good, and we're introducing them, and it's essentially a blind date.

Yes.

You know, they can choose if they want to get married or not. But this. That was something.

That's incredible.

I love that, because that's what I see. In Song of Solomon, chapter one, verse four, it says, their friends praise their love more than wine, which is really to say that those around them agreed on this union more than the party, more than the flowers, the dresses, the cake, the other things that they said, these two belong together. And that's what I think the modern arranged marriage is. It's just your community, your church family saying, man, this. This makes sense.

Yeah, that's great.

I love that. And speaking of that, what would you say to the person where they're dating someone and they've dated them so long that they're like, well, we need to get married. Even though maybe in their heart of hearts, they're pretty sure they're not the right match, and their friends and all the people who love them have these red flags. What would you say?

You know what they say? The way that. That question usually comes out is, hey, I'm not sure if we should break up or get married. And I'm always confused by that because, like, if one is an option, the other one shouldn't be. You're trying to choose between these really extre.

Yeah.

Paradigms. And so that. That's what I would say is if. If. If breaking up is an option, I might take marriage off the table. And if you've been dating for a long time, like, I just always Ask couples, like, what do you want to find out? Because that's what dating is. The interview where you're, you're, you're interviewing for the role in marriage. And, and what is lost in the 21st century is dating intentionally meaning. I, I want to do this as quickly and effectively as I possibly can. Not like, like, you know, play marriage for three years or four years or whatever it is. I want to meet with you. I want to know what I'm looking for in a partner in marriage. And I want to quickly and effectively identify if you would be a good one for me, a suitable spouse for me.

Right.

And so I, to the person who's like, oh, you know, I, I'm, I have too much vested in this, I might as well go forward with it. That's, that's a terrible. I would not recommend that. I would, I would say you, you would absolutely be better off, quote, unquote, starting over.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's so good. You know, jp, I had a chance to preview your brand new book. It's called Outdated. Encourage you guys to pick it up. But I was reading through the digital copy and you've just got such insight, like, just, like just an exceptional amount of insight into the unique kind of struggles that the modern relationship scene has. And it was really eye opening for me, like to read through there and just to kind of read through some of the stories and the connections you make with the scriptural parallels of how our relationship should be. It was challenging to me. But tell us a little bit about your inspiration for writing this and what you hope that this book in particular does for those who read it.

Yeah, the journey that the Lord has had me on, he placed me in a young adult ministry here in Dallas that became a national young adult ministry. So there's 4,000 people in front of me every Tuesday, but there's an additional 20 campuses around the country. So over 12 years I had this front row seat of tens of thousands of dating relationships and so much of ministry's pattern recognition. So you're just seeing what they do that leads to life and seeing what they do that leads to death or breakups or heartaches or crying themselves to sleep. And also in ministry, you do a lot of weddings, especially in young adult ministry. So I have a really front row seat at watching couples come together and you just start writing down these patterns and then dating is a new idea. It's about 120 years old. So think about this. Prior to 120 years ago, no one went on A date in history, like it never happened. Dating actually entered the English language as a euphemism for prostitution. Okay. So to go on a date meant to exchange intimate favors for an experience. Well, if you consider how the world dates in the 21st century, we're still very much there. I mean, that's, that's what they do. That's what you see on tv, the, you know, on dating shows and whatnot. And so I was, I realized they're learning from the wrong place. They're not learning from you guys. Right. They're, they weren't like the, the young adults weren't that they're learning from Hollywood and rom coms and sitcoms and reality shows. And so they're going to this university for divorce. The way that they're dating is a university for divorce. You get in a relationship because you have all of the feels, and when the feels fade, you get out. Then you get in another relationship because you have all the feels, and when the feels fade, you get out. I mean, that's, that's a systematic training for divorce. And as I'm watching this and I'm reading the scriptures, which doesn't address dating, but has a lot to say about relationships, I'm like, oh, I think God intended this to be different. And that's really where this book was born, is like, oh, we're doing it. I found something. I found, I discovered something in these, in these thousands of years old ancient literature that I think can really help the way that we find a spouse today. And we're doing it really, really backwards. And I think it's so normal that somebody would marry and have had their heart broken at least 12 times. And I'm just asking the question, what if God never meant for your heart to be broken?

Yeah.

Like, what if he didn't give us breakable hearts? Like, that wasn't his intention, that he didn't want that for us. And so I'm just raising my hand saying, hey, I think there's a better way. And so then we got to prove it, you know, really, like, like having people apply these principles to their relationships and just watching life flourish. And so, you know, it's proven methods in 225 pages that will help people in their dating relationships.

I love that.

Yeah. And it's, it is, it's mesmerizing. It is a powerful read. And I found myself just, just holding on to certain parts and going back and rereading and say, man, I need to let that sink in. Like, I need to. And it, it was just so, so insightful. I, I would. What would you say to the couple listening right now and they're like, well, we're already married and we did it all the wrong way. Right? So, yeah, we learned what relationships are supposed to look like from all the wrong places. And we've kind of fell into that cycle and that habit. And now we're in a place where we've lost all the feels and there's this temptation that like, we're wanting to just give up and start over. And they're telling themselves maybe we'd be better off to do that, to just kind of give up and start over. How within a marriage, how do you have a restart? Like, how do you say our foundation that we built on wasn't the best one, but we're married now and this is sacred. And so how do we firm up our foundation moving forward and do it the right way?

It's my story. So that's Monica and I, my story. We've been married 16 years. We met as non believers and so dated in all the wrong ways. You know, intimate sex, she stayed with me, all of these things. We're going out to clubs and bars. And then I stumbled into a church 18 years ago, hungover. End up giving my life to Jesus, having a conversation with her. She gives her life to Jesus. We had church backgrounds, but now we're surrendered to Christ. We have the Holy Spirit and we're convicted of sin. You know, we cut out the physical stuff. We want to do it the right way. We bring in people to speak into that. We, we. And I'm like, you know, this isn't that much fun. We should get married. And so we do, we get married. And, and year one was the honeymoon because it's just like, oh, it's new and all, you know, we're just basically going to new restaurants every night and seeing movies and it, you know, it's great. And then year two, the wheels fell off because I had systematically trained for divorce. That's how I had always dated. And now I'm stuck in this covenant, you know, with this woman that I don't have the feels for. She, we're tired, life is hard and I want out and she wants out. And we had community in our lives by the grace of God, people who would be honest with us. And there were some things that I learned in that time, Dave, and one of them was just this realization of how the Holy Spirit works, that he's. He's conforming us to the image and the Character of Jesus Christ. And so I don't have to change her. I don't have to try to parent her, because I. I think I felt that, like, I'm like, oh, gosh, really? That's what you think? And we would just get in these arguments and these fights. We were so different because God made us different, male and female, right? And so I realized that she had the Holy Spirit, that God's changing her, and that God's changing me, and that he's actually bringing us together. So I. I can stop trying to change her, stop imposing my values. And when she says something, I can. I can think, wait, God, is that you? Like, this is your provision for my life. This is a way that you speak to me. I can get excited about her ideas. I can take an interest in what she cares about, and I can slow the conversation down and say, gosh, like, let's just say she says, you know, I want a new car. And prior to this revelation, I would have said, a new car? What, Are you serious? And I would have done these things with my eyebrows where I just kind of look at her and. And she would hear. What she'd hear is, you're so stupid. Yeah, you really. That's what you. Are. You. Are you serious? And then we just get in this tug of war match where I would say, you're not getting a car. And she would say, well, I want a car. And, you know, and there we were. Well, with this revelation, I can say. She could say, I want a new car. And I could say, oh, really? What kind of car? And I can. I can raise my eyebrows. I can get excited with her. And she's a new suburban. A new suburban. Those are nice. What color? Black. Oh, yeah, CIA. That's amazing. And we're in Texas, so let's get light leather so it's not so hot. And this will. Will be fun, babe. You know what? Let me look into that. Because I don't know how much they are. Let me gather some information, and then I can come back to her and say, man, gosh, did you know those are 65, $70,000? I don't know that we can afford that right now. I. I don't. And she may say, gosh, no, I had no idea. Or she may say, yeah, I don't care. That's what I want. And then I can say. I can say, well, let's bring some other people into that, because I don't know that that's the best decision for us, but let's invite other voices of wisdom and, and what happened in a disagreement. We actually grew closer together.

Right.

And so to that couple that find them has found themselves in this place where they're just playing tug of war. I say put, set down the rope. And you said, you use the word restart, and I think that's a perfect word like sit down and, and start with apologizing. Own a hundred percent of whatever percent you can own. Maybe you feel like you, you're 2% of the dysfunction in your marriage. Great. Own a hundred % of your 2%. Okay. Just. You just start by owning everything you can and say, hey, I want to do this the right way. I want to slow down. I want to honor you, I want to respect you, I want to love you, I want to cherish you. I'm. I'm going. My heart is hard right now. I'm going to need some patience. But I want you to know that right now I'm committing to you that I will try and you don't need to look elsewhere. You know, in the same way that I give career counsel of bloom where you're planted, that's your marriage. Fight for your marriage. Okay? So, hey, this is. You're not going to find happiness somewhere else. You're going to bump your head against the same, you know, the same problems. You see the divorce rate rise as you go to second marriage and third marriage and fourth marriage. And so know that you're. You have a part of the problem and work to resolve it.

Hey, guys, if you've been listening to the Naked Marriage podcast lately, you know we've been in a series called Naked and Healthy, which is based on our brand new book of the same title, Naked and Healthy. We're talking about how to get healthy and stay healthy mentally, physically, spiritually, and in your marriage. I want to talk to you real quick about one of the newest sponsors for the Naked Marriage podcast because they're all about keeping you healthy in a physical sense. And they've got some great offers and some great products to help you do that. They are called organifi in the book I share where I've got a thyroid issue. I've had to change some things up with my diet. And I'm so thankful for our new sponsor, which makes it easier to stay healthy. Here's what organifi does. For less than $3 a day, they make great tasting, convenient products to help you keep all your vitamins, all your minerals, all your superfoods coming. They offer green juices, red juices, in fact, let me tell you real Quick, about the green juice option because this is something. The green juice is something I've been implementing in my diet. And I think what Organifi offers with green juice is maybe the best on the market. It has 11 superfoods. It takes just 30 seconds to pour your scoop in the water and mix it together. It is a hundred percent USDA certified organic and it's going to help promote a healthy mind, body and immune system. So guys, that's just one of the many products products available at Organifi. If you want to get serious about your health, this is a great way to get started. Go to this site, Organifi.com naked and use the promo code naked to get 15% off all orders. Guys, they make it easy. You just scoop this delicious stuff into some water, mix it together, drink it once a day. It's going to make a huge difference in your overall health, your attitude. Without caffeine, it's going to give you a bunch of natural energy. Again, the site is O R G A n I f I.com naked. Use the promo code naked and you will save 15%.

As you all know, we love a date night and we definitely encourage couples to have a regular date night. But during this time, many of us have had to get a little creative with the date nights we go on.

Yeah, that's right. And so I'm so excited about the newest sponsor of the naked marriage podcast. They're called Unbox Love and they are here to make date night a lot easier. They want to give you an at home date night that you're going to love.

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And the themes are amazing. So each date is built on a theme. Past themes have been stuff like a trip to Italy and the brand new 1 90s date night. And I am so excited about this. So in this box right now there is a box of 1990s pop trivia which I just geek out on and then a bunch of like snacks and candies that were available in the 90s that I have seen since. This is like opening a time capsule taking me back to the 90s. And I just want to jump in the box and live there because I kind of loved the 90s. This, it's so fun. It's so creative. You and your spouse, whether you're young, old, in between, you will have so much fun with the themed date night boxes.

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That'S unboxlove.com naked.

I love how you talk about the facial, like the non verbals and how that can make.

Eyebrows are everything.

They really are. Like, I've never thought about the eyebrows specifically, but that is the truth. Because even just that first reaction, if we can be so aware of our body language and how we take anything that our spouse brings us, especially in a hard season, just that alone can. It changes the trajectory of the whole conversation. And I love that. That's, that's just that little tidbit. I think a lot of people are going to have, like, they're going to be like, whoa, I never thought about that.

Yeah, yeah. It's so huge. And there's so much depth here. There's so much wisdom. Some of the themes I love from the book, one is how our culture defines love as a feeling and why that's so problematic. Two, you know, when you talk something about the baggage that people can have if they do it the world's way, which ends up in promiscuity and a lot of, of broken hearts and just kind of baggage, and then we come into marriage with all that. And so what are some ways maybe that for people who are already there, like in marriage again, coming back to that married audience, how do you deprogram yourself from. It's not even necessarily like needing the restart. Like we're at all this tension with each other, but you're just kind of carrying this weight yourself. Like, man, I made all these mistakes. I'm carrying the shame. And then I've defined love in the wrong ways and now I kind of carry the shame with me. And what does it look like to really embrace that I can be a new creation in Christ and that this marriage is a pure and beautiful thing and that I don't have to feel like we're second class or anything like that, because I think a lot of people in the church, or even those outside the church that we call themselves Christians, still carry around that shame. Like, well, God's not going to be able to really do everything with me or with us because of these mistakes I made in the past.

Great. So great. So again, my story. So sexual addiction, pornography, just, just enslaved to pornography. Looked, looked at it every day. Didn't, wouldn't even said, I struggle with it. It was just a way of life. It owned me. Was unfaithful prior to marriage. So just had, that was another way of life. I mean, just you go out, you look for someone to hook up with and then, then the Holy Spirit comes in into my life. And it's not like all of those things just like disappeared, especially pornography. I mean, that one lingered. It was that, that was really challenging to get rid of it. It required, Jesus says this one only comes out with prayer and fasting. It was, it required a lot of prayer, a lot of fasting, a lot of counsel, a lot of accountability and, and help through the years to, to get rid of that. And so if that's where you're at, whether it's pornography, sexual addiction, you know, unfaithfulness, or really just years or months of dysfunction in your marriage where you, you begin to experience shame, here's what I would say. Share your story. You know, when you bring things to the light, the enemy loses his grip. Like his, his grip loosens. That's James 5:16. It says, Confess your sins to each other, to one another, others around you, not, not to a priest or, or even necessarily a pastor, but to those in, in you're in community with. Bring things to light, begin to talk about it, say, hey, this is where we're at. It says, and pray for each other. For the prayers of a righteous person are powerful, effective and effective. It says, so that you may be healed. And so what the scripture is telling us is there's a kind of healing that comes to our heart that only comes by way of collective prayer from others and confession. So we confess prayer, like collective prayer, community prayer, and we experience healing in that. And then this is so important. What God does is he takes your mess and he makes it your message and even your ministry sometimes. So you, you start to share with that, just like I just did. So what just happened? If you, if you're listening to this and you struggle with pornography, like, you know, you looked at it last night, you're hiding it. When I said that, you leaned in, and what happened is, is your heart cracked open a little bit, and you begin to see hope. Because you're like, wow, that He. He kind of sounds like he's okay. And I am. I'm okay. Like God is. I thought I'd look at porn for the rest of my life, you know, I. I really did. I. I thought I'd never not struggle. But the Lord has healed me, and that same healing is available to you. And the. The reason that you experience hope in me sharing that with you is because I'm telling you my story. And that's what he does. It's almost like this, guys. It's like you're in a cage and you can't get out of the cage. And then Jesus comes and he opens the door, and he just leaves the door wide open. And as you walk through that door, as you walk out of that cage, he hands you the key and he says, all right, now there's other people in cages. Unlock them. And the key is your story that he's taken your mess and he's made it your message and even your ministry.

Okay, that gave me cold chills.

These mics are really expensive. Or I would encourage you to just drop it. That was a drop the mic.

No, it was so good. And you know the pornography thing, too, especially to people who are dating. That's such a huge thing. It's part of our story, too. And one thing David's always said is he wished that in our dating phase, in our engagement phase, that you had had the courage to tell me about it before we got married, instead of it coming out right near the beginning of our marriage and it causing even more hurt. And I just wanna talk to the person right now. If you are dating someone and you know you wanna marry this person first. Yes. Confess it. Have people around you to provide that accountability. But you have to bring in your future spouse into this conversation. And I just wanna speak to that person who's the future spouse. This could be a man or a woman. Cause pornography is not exclusively a male issue. I mean, there's a lot of females that struggle with this, especially today. Be willing to listen and don't immediately think they're disgusting and don't immediately think they're damaged. It's an addiction, like any addiction. And like you were talking about, it's hard to get over, but it's absolutely possible in Christ. But be willing to help them get the help that they need. And as you move towards marriage, it's so good. Cause you're gonna have it all out on the table. You're gonna have that trust being built through that hard season. But what God will do, when we're willing to bring it to the light and willing to get help and willing to confess these things and have the community around us that. It's usually a small community, those people kind of that you can trust to help you be held accountable, is you will grow through it, and you'll kind of walk through that hard season. On the other side of it, you're like, I never knew I could be this free. I never knew I could be. And so, yeah, I'm so glad we brought that up. I think that's huge.

Yeah, that is. It's powerful. I hope. If you are in a situation where you're struggling with any of those things that we just talked about, man, go back and listen to that whole section again. Back in my day, we called it rewinding. They don't rewind anymore. I just skip back button. But listen to that again and let those words sink in. And then go to scripture and listen to the truth of God's promises and the freedom that's there as. And it will be life changing for you like it's been for Ashley and me. Like it's been for J.P. oh, yeah. So thank you for sharing that.

Love that.

And that leads us into this week's question. And of course, we love to end the episode by answering one of your questions. We love that you guys write us on social media. We're Dave and Ashley Willis on Instagram. Or you can just. You can look us up on Facebook or wherever you are. Just look us up and write us. But the questions we actually answer on air are the ones submitted@nakedmarriagepodcast.com we never see these questions until right now. Until now. Our producer, Marcus, or maybe Jonathan. I don't know which one of you awesome dudes.

Okay. He's saying Marcus, he likes to throw us some hard ones, too.

Curveballs. There are no softballs here, guys. So, sweetie, you want to use that? Lovely reading. Can you? Sure. Can you see that? Both.

I have my contacts.

Okay.

So I can see it. All right. My fiance has a friend of the opposite sex who he sees as, quote, one of the bros. She is single and was very disrespectful to me when I met her. I feel like my discernment has been on point, and this is something I pray about continually. His friends think it's crazy that I want this relationship to be cut off. And I'm starting to doubt myself and feel as if I'm in the wrong. They are in grad school together, so they will inevitably see each other, but them hanging out outside of school bothers me. What can I do?

Yeah, that's savvy. We, we talk a lot on here about just kind of the, the dangers of those intimate opposite sex friendships. But jp, I'd love to, love to get you to, to weigh in, weigh in on this because it's, you know, it's, it's a dynamic a lot of folks are in. Maybe they're in kind of a mixed gender friend group, but in this kind of situation where you're, you're engaged or you're married, you know, you have a commitment to, to that, that person, you're entering into covenant with this person and then, and they express concern that you've got this friend of the opposite sex where. I'd love to hear your wisdom on this.

Yeah, so many things happening here, you know, and we, every question like this is very nuanced, so we just want to acknowledge there's a lot of details in this question that we can't see. And so I take questions on Friday, I do this thing called Friday Q and A. And we'll weed through, you know, a thousand or so questions. And there's one repeats itself. It's what do I say if. If? Or what do I say to if? And it's like, what do I say to my fiance if? And I always. So I'm going to start there. And my response is always this. Say all the things with kindness. So first make sure that he clearly understands how you feel. Like, hey, this is how. And you don't have to apologize for how you feel. It's how you feel. Like, this is how I feel. And you want to say that as clearly as you possibly can with kindness like you, that, that you, that doesn't need to be really heated escalated, you know, again, eyebrows are everything. Conversation. Just sit down and say, babe, sweetie, whatever, whatever you call them, I want you to know I am really uncomfortable with this conversation. I know you're tempted to write that off as jealousy or, or something immature in me, but I, I want to make sure that I'm heard by you that I'm uncomfortable with this relationship. And as you hang out with this person outside of school, that it, it's really uncomfortable for me and I would like for you not to do that. That is how I feel. And, and that's a great starting place. And then from there, you know, in the season of relationship that you're in, you. You do have an option. And it's. And he has an option. Like, it's. This is about choices. And he can say, well, I'm not going to do that. And you can say, well, if. If you're not going to do that, then I. I don't feel loved and cared for in that. I don't know that these are the kind of problems that I want to bring into my marriage. It's interesting, and I don't know if you guys would agree with this, but I've never met somebody with marriage problems. All the problems that I've met in marriage were single people problems they brought into marriage. And marriage just puts a giant magnifying glass on them. And so this is one of those that if you guys can't come to an agreement on, I believe is going to trip you up in marriage. And so now's the time to make sure that you get on the same page. Those are my initial thoughts.

I love that. Absolutely. And I think, too, again, this is nuance, but the fact that she said this lady has been disrespectful to her, that's not a bro. That's not, you know, a true friend is going to respect your fiance, and I think in the most respectful and loving way possible, giving your fiance the benefit of the doubt that maybe he has some blind spots when it comes to this person. But just point that out and say, listen, this other friend of yours is very respectful of me because he's your true friend. And a true friend respects your fiance and is respectful to your fiance, and she is not. And that makes her an unsafe person. You know, a lot of times we use that language, especially in marriage, like, there's. Sometimes there's unsafe people in your life. They can be of the opposite sex, but they can also be of your same gender, you know, and she's making you feel unsafe because she is disrespectful, which can only make you feel like, you know, you don't like me. You're trying to pull my fiance away from me. And I think, you know, again, in the most loving, you know, not trying to make this a really intense conversation, but just saying, like, this is how I feel. Because what if. If one of my guy friends just constantly was disrespectful to you and was constantly trying to have alone time with me, how would that make you feel? Because I guarantee you he probably wouldn't like it. And so I think sometimes we have to just very lovingly and gently point out, this is where I am.

Yeah. So, so good. Thank you for your question. And I hope that this podcast and these other resources we've talked about today continue to help you as you build it a foundation for moving forward with your fiance in the healthiest way possible. And once again, thank you to jp man, what a wealth of wisdom on relationships you got. This guy is. And it just means so much. Not only do you take the time to be here, but just for everything you're doing. I mean, you're a gift to the kingdom.

Well, you guys are gifts to the kingdom. And I think just anything that we can do to invest in these really important relationships is honoring to God. And I see you guys giving your life to that. So I'm really, truly thankful for you.

You. Thank you.

And how can people, you know get in touch with you?

And so I'm at jpakluta. So that's at J P O K L U D A on Instagram and Twitter, Jonathan and Monica Pacluda on Facebook. My email is leadershiparriscreek.org and the book that just came out is outdated. Available everywhere, books are sold.

Awesome.

And the book is stellar. Right guys?

And it's got the best cover I've seen in a long time. It's so awesome. I love it.

Yeah, it's that vintage.

It's so cool. I love.

But it really is an excellent book. It is so rich. It's in 225 pages, guys. It can completely revamp the way you see relationships. And to realign your thoughts with what scripture says about relationships. And I highly encourage you to check it out. And also check out JP online. He has a wealth of resources from his sermons to just a ton of stuff. Just google the guy and spend all day just drinking in all of the great stuff he's got out there. And thank you again, sir.

Thank you. Thank you guys so much.

We'll see you next time.