Naked & Healthy | The Naked Marriage Podcast | Dave and Ashley Willis

If you've listened to our Naked Marriage podcast for any length of time, you know that we are huge fans of Christian counseling, and we have both benefited from individual Christian counseling throughout our entire marriage. And we know that it can benefit you as well. You know, we talk a lot about marriage counseling, but there's something about finding inner healing as an individual, and it will really help your marriage in the long run. And so we have an amazing resource to share with you.

Yeah, I'm so excited that we can finally offer this. And we found the right partners at Faithful Counseling, and they do an amazing job to connect with you from home. You don't have to go sit in an office wherever you are. I know a lot of people write us and say, there's not a good Christian counselor in our area. Now, wherever you are, as long as you have Internet access, you can get access to great Christian counseling. Just go to this site. It's getfaithful.com nakedmarriage and there's a 10% discount exclusively for you as a Naked Marriage podcast listener. But you do have to go to this specific site. It is getfaithful.com nakedmarriage and like Ashley just said, both of us from personal experience can attest to the inner healing and the freedom that can be experienced through good personal Christian counseling. You can experience this as well in your marriage. Hey. Welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we Undress the truth about Sex, Intimacy, and lifelong love. And Happy New Year. For those of you who are listening to this episode, while it's new, this is the first episode of 2020. We're just believing it's going to be a great year. It can't really be much worse than 2020 was. I don't think so. We're excited about what's to come. But, you know, 2020 had some good things that happened, too. Absolutely. It wasn't all bad. We had more time as a family than we've had in a long time. There's always, always something to be thankful for in every season. But we're excited for the new year and for a new season of the podcast where we're going to be talking to you about being naked and healthy and what that means. So before we get there, though, my beautiful bride is gonna read a review. Thank you. For Those who on YouTube, iTunes, wherever you leave reviews, you leave reviews. It helps us, it encourages us. We read every one and we appreciate it. We do.

All right, today's review is five stars from Mama Melpin. And she says, my husband and I have been married for almost 10 years. We've been listening to you all for years now. We even got to attend an exo marriage conference. We both have siblings that are going through divorce now, and I have been having a very hard time with it. Listening to your all in episode had me in tears. Exactly what my heart needed to hear. We have to fight for each other and keep God first. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for that awesome review. It just, you know, it warms my heart to know that it's helping, you know, you and your husband to remain strong, but also to pray for your siblings. I know that can be really hard to watch family members struggling in their marriage, and so hopefully maybe they'll turn on the Naked Marriage and listen to and learn something. So we appreciate all of you who are listening and leaving reviews and letting other people know about the podcast. That's the best way to get the word out. And so let's dive into today's episode. Well, I am so excited about this subject that we're going to talk about today, because I think it's one that is most naturally already on our brains. Because if you're. If you're listening this when it comes out, it's January, we're thinking about making goals.

How did that happen?

I know it's crazy, but we're thinking about making goals. And one of those for many of us, is getting healthy. But we want to talk today about how to be healthy, not only individually, but also as a couple. And so we're calling it Being Naked and Healthy, which we're gonna unpack.

We are gonna unpack one, because as you probably have seen, we're kind of obsessed with the word naked. We love naked, especially Ashley. It's all she thinks about. She just wants to talk about being naked all the time. Now, we, of course, the core message of the Naked Marriage podcast and our book, the Naked Marriage, goes back to the book of Genesis, when God said that first married couple, Adam and Eve, they were naked and unashamed. And that nakedness wasn't just a picture of their physical nakedness and intimacy and sex and all that, even though that's wonderful, but it's also a picture of this emotional and spiritual vulnerability and transparency. And it's a beautiful picture of what God's called marriage to be, which is why we call the podcast the Naked Marriage Podcast. But in this new series, Naked and Healthy, we're actually simultaneously, as we're launching this new season of the podcast, Talking about how to be naked and healthy in your marriage. We're also excited to announce our brand new book which is called Naked and Healthy.

Right.

And over the next several months on the podcast, we're gonna be talking about some of the themes in the book. But we want you to get this book and go through it together as a couple. And you can get it right now available on pre order@nakedandhealthy.com and go ahead and order it. You'll be the first to get it when it comes out in February. We're going to be talking about some of the themes, but there are going to be some things you can only get from the book and in the book, and what we're going to talk about in the podcast as well is that health isn't just physical. It's not just spiritual, it's not just emotional, and it's not just in your marriage, but it's all those things happening together. How do we maximize health individually for our spouse, for each other and in our marriage? And that's what we're going to be talking about today to kind of set up this whole new season. And that's what we're going to be talking about in the weeks to come.

That's right. I'm really excited about it because I do think it has the power to really transform your marriage for the better, but also to transform your life individually. And that's really. Our marriage is thriving the most when we are really firing on all cylinders, so to speak, spiritually, emotionally and physically and mentally. And so we wanna really talk about, you know, how do we do that? And, you know, when we were actually talking about writing this book, we thought about kind of the times in our marriage where this has backfired.

Yeah, we've had some false starts, some funny moments along the way.

That's a really nice way of saying it. And we were just reminded early in our marriage when we both kind of had put on some weight. I think sometimes you put on the most weight in your marriage or just in your life when you're happy. Like, I think, you know, maybe you're happy and you're eating and everything, you feel happy. I remember talking to a friend of mine about that. She's like, you know, she goes, when I'm sad, I don't eat. When I'm happy, I do eat because everything seems to be good. And so she's like, that's a problem because I wanna be happy, but I also don't wanna feel unhealthy. And that's kinda where we were. We were just like newlyweds. We had lost weight for the wedding day a little bit.

And then we were chubby and happy.

And then we were like, you know what? Let's just enjoy life. But we got to the point where both of us were feeling kind of sludgy and we just weren't sleeping well.

My problem is I eat when I'm happy, and I also eat when I'm sad, and I also eat when I'm bored. So really all moods lead me to food. So I don't just have one is the problem. You've always been more disciplined in the food area. I don't know than me. But yeah, we have had some season. And we'll talk a lot in the weeks to come. Some we're gonna focus specifically just on kind of like physical health. Some we're gonna focus specifically on mental health, some just on spiritual health. In this kind of setup talk, we're sort of talking about all of them. But yeah, we've joked that our love has been not only in sickness and in health, but also in thickness and in health. Cause we've run the full. The full gambit. And we've had some moments along the way. Like, I remember speaking of January's and people are getting these New Year's resolutions. One January, we had the New Year's resolution that we are gonna get ripped. We're gonna get in really good shape. And so we got this book that at the time was like this hugely popular fitness book called Body for Life. And. And Body for Life was this fitness plan where, you know, it was really rigid, but one day a week, it was a free day. So one day a week, you could eat whatever you wanted, as many calories as you wanted. And as long as you. The other six days followed this plan they guaranteed you, which was strict. Was really, really strict. You were still gonna get, like, ripped. So we're like, all right, we're gonna do this plan. We're gonna get ripped. We took our before pictures, took our shirts off, had my brother come over to take it. Cause this was before the days where you could set up a store.

I had a bikini on. You said we took our shirts off. Like, I had a bikini on. You had on, like, trunk. And you had to have a newspaper.

For some reason to show what date it was.

To show what date it was.

To have proof of the date. Yeah, this is old school. Before smartphones, before all the technology. So it was us with, like a flash camera. I'm sticking my Gut out. Which I've always been able to do.

You're very good at it. It really is. Like, for Halloween, you should just, you.

Know, I can look pregnant, come up.

With like, yeah, it's pretty impressive.

So I stuck it way out there. I'm like, oh, we're gonna like win the prize.

And you looked really sad on your face too.

Yeah, we both looked sad.

The reason we know this, guys is we were going through. We've moved a lot through marriage. And every time we move, somehow I find these pictures and I'm reminded, I'm like, oh, Body for Life.

Well, the problem is the before pictures actually ended up looking better than we looked after.

They really did because.

And it's not the fault of the great people behind Body for Life. I'm sure it's a wonderful program. We didn't do the program correctly. What we did is we started on the free day because we're like, we got to start with the celebration. We got to eat, eat, eat. And we got to. So we would eat this ridiculous amounts of food on the free day. And then we would say, we're gonna start the next day. And so we would eat a ton the next day. We'd roll around and we would be like, oh man, I'm just not feeling it.

Or we'd kind of half do it. Like I distinctly remember, sweetie, I was working at the U.S. attorney's office as like an intern. Cause I was actually. This is like early marriage. Cause I was still in college.

You were gonna be a lawyer back then.

And I wanted to be a lawyer back then. And so I remember distinctly. This is so crazy. So on body, one of the meals was egg whites with like some kind of fruit or something. And so I had made. It wasn't even for breakfast too, it was for lunch. I was like, I'm gonna have egg whites for lunch. So I made egg whites that morning, put em in some Tupperware and then put my fruit in there. And I was bringing it out at lunch with all of my people that I work with. And they're looking at me like, you have lost your mind. What are you doing? Who brings egg whites already made to work? That doesn't taste good. But that's the kind of stuff we would do. We would do extremes. And that's kind of how it would go. We would. And then we would have like one or two days of trying to do the plan and we'd burn out the wagon.

And then we would say, well, this week's shot. Let's just let's get to the end of the week. Let's do. And then we would do the free day again and then we'd start over and do like one day of the plan and then fall off the wagon. And so we did like four free days. We did. Which each of those four days was like 10,000 calories. I felt like, I mean, I ate like it was my job. So then we finally just retired the plan, donated the book at Goodwill.

We did.

And I realized I'm actually fatter than I was before. We started this because we had kind of gone into this extreme plan. And so we tell that story one. Cause it's funny. And we've had a lot of failure moments, big and small, along the way over the last 20 years in health and in other parts of life too. But I think sometimes what holds people back from growing in their health, whether it's physical health, whether it is emotional, physical, why so many New Year's resolutions fail is because it's this all or nothing mentality. It's not about creating a sustainable lifestyle. It's not about incremental growth and celebrating the little wins along the way. But it's just from we have this mindset every new year where it's like everything's going to be different and I'm going to go from being way overweight to I'm going to look like an underwear model in two months, or I'm going to go from being, you know, somebody that, you know doesn't read my Bible at all to I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn Greek and Hebrew and read the Bible in all the original languages this year I'm gonna. It's. We make these huge goals that set ourselves up for failure. Because then when we don't measure up, we think, well, if spiritual health means I do these, these big things, I wake up at three in the morning and do a five hour devotional. I mean, we, we set these, we set these, these goals that just aren't sustainable. And then when we don't measure up to it, then we stop doing anything altogether. We're just like, well, forget it. It's just not for me. I'm not disciplined enough. So I'm never gonna have a great faith or great spiritual health. I'm never gonna have great physical health. I'm never gonna have great mental emotional health or my marriage is never gonna be great. Because we've tried. We tried. And maybe you've listened to this podcast for a while and you feel like your marriage, you have moments where you feel like things are getting a little bit better, but then. Then you fall off the wagon or you have an argument or a disagreement, you think, well, what's the point? I'm just gonna give up. But listen, I'm so glad you haven't. The fact that you're listening right now is a win. And what we're hoping to do on this podcast is just to help you get a little bit better in these areas. You know, a little bit. If you get 5% better in your marriage or in your physical health over this year, and then next year you get 5% better again, and you keep listening, you keep doing those things. But that incremental growth over time, like compounding interest, is going to have a major impact in the long run of your health. But don't beat yourself up and don't throw out the resolutions altogether just because, you know, you weren't able to keep this rigid, unsustainable plan, but create some habits and some commitments that you can keep and then stick to it.

Absolutely. And I have been so guilty of the all or nothing mentality. I mean, especially early in our marriage, and not only when it comes to. To food and diet and exercise, but just in a lot of things. Right. And I know when it came to our marriage relationship, this would drive Dave crazy. Cause I would make these very. Even if it wasn't January, I would just make these goals, and then I'd be like, this is a good goal. This is a good thing. So clearly we need to do this together. Whether it has to do with our health or with our marriage itself, or with even our faith or volunteering or whatever it is. And he would always try to be supportive, but I remember when he wouldn't do it or have the. I don't know, the interest or maybe the fire behind it that I did, it would upset me, wouldn't it, sweetie?

It would.

And it would cause friction, a tension.

Point in our marriage. Because you took it back then, I feel like is like I care about this so much. Yes. So if you don't care about it as equally as I do and don't commit to do it with me the exact way I want to do it, then you don't care about our marriage as much as I do or about our health as much as I do. And then it would be a friction point because I would just say I'm not wired to do it that way. And so we found along the way that we've got to support each other and sometimes different plans, we've tried different things together, like hey, let's do keto or let's do whatever and one of us will like it more than the other. And instead of guilting the one who doesn't like it as much into sticking with it, sometimes you say, well, let's find something that works for you and support each other in that. Cause we tried keto. And Ashley was into it. I lasted about a day. And then I realized I think I would do better on like an all carb diet than an all protein diet. I'm like, I just can't. I can't stick with this. And so she was like, he had so much grace. You're like, what's all right?

That's after years though of me not having grace, like body for life. I think I was more excited, you know, I remember and I'd get frustrated cause I'm like, do you know that I only ate egg whites and watermelon today?

Yeah, she's starving.

I'm starving.

Yeah, so she's already mad. Cause she's hungry. We're all mad when we're hungry.

Exactly.

I mean, I get mad when I'm hungry, but you'd be tense and I would have cheated that day.

I know. And I'm like, we're supposed to do this together.

Egg whites and water. And I'm like, well, you know, I started off good, but then I had the Big Mac for lunch. And you know, it's easy to fall off the wagon, but you have to show each other a lot of grace. And I think in all parts of your health. And when I look at to the healthy mentors in my life, you know, whether it's physical health, marriage health, emotional health, spiritual health. One thing that they've done is they found a healthy rhythm, a sustainable pace. They've shown themselves and others a lot of grace, you know, when they've been in seasons where they haven't done as well. Because I think part of why resolutions fail is because they're kind of based on guilt. And guilt as a long term strategy is never a good enough motivator to do anything. You know, he might just make us feel bad about ourselves, but it won't really challenge us to live the best life that God has for us. That's why Jesus said, I came to give life and life to the full, not I came to make you feel so guilty and bad about yourself that you'd do something better. He wants us to live in the freedom that he provides. And in that freedom he wants us to live the healthiest life possible as a way to honor him and live our best life, to serve him and serve others to our fullest capacity as being good stewards of our mind, body, soul, and marriage. But if we're just beating ourselves up constantly in that pursuit, then we're kind of missing the whole point.

And like we said before, a lot of us, you know, turn to food or other unhealthy behaviors when we are feeling shame or we are feeling like a failure. And so it's just this endless cycle. And we've been there. I mean, we have been there, you know, whether it has to do with physical health or mental health or even relational health or spiritual health, where we've set these goals, we've done it well for a while, we've met kind of those expectations, and all of a sudden, we kind of fall off a little bit, and then we beat ourselves up and we're mad at ourselves, and then we inadvertently get mad at our spouse. And, I mean, I've even talked to some spouses where they'll say, you know, I would be skinny if it wasn't for him. He makes me fat. He's the one who's buying all the bad food. Or, you know, or he never wants to exercise with me, or he won't, you know, watch the kids while I go do this class. You know, if only he would do this, or if only she would do this. And we've gotta stop pointing fingers, because the bottom line is any kind of change in your life, the first step is getting your thinking right. You gotta get your mind right. And I, again, have learned this the hard way. And you've gotta stop, you know, adapting or adopting policies kind of in your mind and in your life that are all or nothing, because, again, you're gonna get all or nothing. And that's not good. I mean, you don't want to have an extremist kind of view on things. And most of the time, you know, a plan that is gonna work well for you, whether it's for physical health or spiritual health, it's going to be one where there's a lot of grace involved and you can celebrate small wins. And so, you know, as we go into kind of these next weeks of talking about how to become naked and healthy, I don't want you to feel like, my goodness, they're handing me another thing to do. I want you to think about one thing you can do when it comes to your physical health to get healthy. And then as we go along, one thing you can do, one little small thing you can do to improve your mental health. One little small thing you can do to improve your spiritual health. And like, gradually as you do that one small thing, like Dave said, incrementally over time, it makes such a difference. And I've seen that, you know, just very practically in my physical health. We're gonna talk more about this as we go along. But I, you know, we kind of found that when we don't eat later at night, you know, like when we kind of cut ourselves off at a certain point, like let's say 6pm and we say, you know what? But for four out of the seven days of the week, we're gonna try to stop eating late. Because I find that I snack more later and that's more calories. And it makes my stomach hurt. And then I wake up kind of groggy. Cause I'm usually eating a salty snack and it doesn't settle well. And what I found is doing that one small thing. And Dave has done this too. And a lot of people refer to it as intermittent fasting is one way you can refer to it. But it really helps. It really helps me to feel better. And it gets my mind right. And one thing I try to focus on is, you know, yeah, I guess I could eat later and have those chips. And that's fine. It's not gonna ruin my week. But I try to focus on how I'm gonna feel when we can really think about, like, what? How do I wanna feel tomorrow? Do I wanna feel lighter? Do I wanna feel good? And you know, where I drank water and I just let my stomach settle? Or do I wanna feel Am I okay with feeling groggy? You know, and sometimes maybe you are okay with feeling groggy. Cause you're like, you know, those chips are calling my name. And that's okay. But I think we have to get our mind right and our plans right. Where there's a lot of room for grace and where we're not looking at this. Like, if we don't do xyz, then we are a failure. We have to give each other a lot of grace. But that really starts with giving ourself that grace and then being willing to make small changes. And celebrating those small changes.

Yes, and celebrating the small changes. The grace part is huge. What that looks like in action is being a safe place for each other. You know, a quick story before we dive into this week's question is, you know, I heard a husband, actually, I was reading his book, a really good book, and it wasn't a book about health. But he shared this story, and it really resonated with me. And he said, in their marriage, he's always prioritized exercise. He's just been like a runner and really disciplined with exercise. And for his wife, that hasn't been as important. And so, like, he would encourage her to join him in health and for her level of activity to look like his. But apparently he would kind of push this so much that she started to take it as, he doesn't love me the way that I am. He's trying to, you know, he's trying to be controlling here. He's trying to parent me instead of be a partner with me. And he said one of the most sobering things she'd ever said to him was at one time, he was like, listen, I really would like you to step up and exercise more. And all this. And her response just stopped him in his tracks. She said, I don't feel safe with you right now. She said, I don't feel safe with you because I feel like you're judging me. And I feel like you're always kind of pushing this on me and that I'm never measuring up. And so he kind of stops in his tracks. And he apologized, and he thought, well, I apologize, so it's over and we can move on. He said. But it was actually because he'd been doing this so long, it actually took several years before she kind of came back around and said, like, oh, and just so you know, like, I feel safe with you again, like, you've been doing a great job. But we need to be careful that while we're encouraging each other toward health, that you're always showing each other grace and you're the safest place on earth for each other. And while you're spurring each other on toward good deeds, the Bible might say you don't do it in a way that comes across as judgmental or harsh or making it seem like your love is conditional on your spouse's effort or something as superficial as their weight or their size or those kinds of things. We need to be a really, really safe place for each other. We're going to talk so much more about this. Again, the series we're in and the name of the book that's coming out, it's both called Naked and Healthy. And if you go to nakedandhealthy.com, you can pre order this book. We're so excited about it. I think that for all the resources we've created, I feel like this one might be the single most practical resource in terms of putting things into action that can immediately, directly and long term impact so many areas of your marriage and your life. So, so check that out and stay tuned into this podcast, listen to it with your spouse, talk about it together. Like Ashley said, pick one thing that you can do to start making these healthy changes and we're gonna have some great conversations in the week to come.

Yes.

All right, it is time for this week's question. Thank you. For those who send in questions again, you can write us on social media, avanashleywillis on Instagram, or you can find us on Facebook. But the questions we answer here on the podcast are the ones that are sent to nakedmarriagepodcast.com so you can send us a question, My love, would you like to read it or would you? Sure. Yes.

All right. It says, my husband and I have been married for two years. When we got married, we said we would live by his parents for a little bit and then move toward mine, meaning her parents. A few years down the road. I told him I wanted to be near my mom and when we were ready to have kids because I wanted her to help and it wouldn't be fair if we were only near his family. And then in parentheses, she says, we have lived about half a mile from his parents for the last two years. Every time I bring up moving, he gets angry and changes the subject. We've talked about this before getting married, and I don't think his response is fair. This is causing issues whenever we talk about having kids or buying a house. What can we do? Or what can I do?

Yeah, no, this is a great question and it's nuanced. There's a lot of layers and complexity to it because it's built on trust, it's built on keeping promises. It's built on your shared vision for the future.

Yeah.

It's also impacted by the different visions you have for your future, the different preferences you have, and how life changes over time. And sometimes what we say that we're going to do, what our long term plan is, then life just sort of changes things or changes our own thoughts, and we end up doing something else. We're certainly not where we thought we would be, you know, 20 years ago. So there's a lot going on here. And before we kind of like answer this directly, you know, I'll just say this. I think that living near family can be such a gift, but it also can create. It can have the potential to create a lot of dynamics that are potentially unhealthy for a marriage. And in our situation, our own marriage, just to start with our experience, we started out in the same town where both of our parents lived. And there was some benefit to that, being able to see each other and the familiarity and comfort that came from that. But I'm telling you, our marriage and our family unit, it really took off and went to the next level of health when God opened the door for us to have a ministry career opportunity away from our hometown, which was a big step of faith. And our parents were, you know, they hated to see us go. They didn't understand why we were leaving, but we just felt led to do it. And it was once we got away and could really focus on each other without constantly looking to. Her parents are mine. To kind of go to. To be our social network or to bail us out or to babysit or whatever it might be. And we had to figure this out on our own. That I believe as much as we love our parents, and I believe we're closer to both sets of family as we right now than we were when we lived in the same town as them. But it's helped us a lot. I'm not saying every person has to move away from their parents, but I do think, even if it's in the short term, every couple could benefit from some time away from both sets of parents where they can really. They can unite as a couple and they can forge that bond.

Because, you know, it does. You know, it puts kind of each spouse kind of in a unique position. Because I think we feel pressure from both parents just because they love us. It's not. I don't think any parents are like, oh, I just want to cause marital strife for my children. And I think they truly love their kids. We love our children. We hope that they stay close because we wanna see them a lot. And that's a wonderful thing. But what really happens is I think the husband in this situation, he's not really saying a lot because I'm sure his parents are like, well, you've lived here. Don't move. You don't need to do that. You're already pretty settled. Why can't you just stay here? I mean, her parents aren't that far away. I'm sure it's those kind of conversations. And he feels torn because he's like, I'm hearing all this from my mom and dad, and then my wife's unhappy. But again, we talk about this all the time on the podcast. Once we marry, our first loyalty belongs to our spouse. It no longer belongs to our parents. You know, it's God first, then our husband or wife, then our children, and then everyone else. And so we really have to make sure we have kind of our priorities straight. And I know that can be really difficult when you're feeling pressure from your parents, because of course, we wanna love and honor our parents, but loving and honoring them once we're married is so different than when we are seeing when we are in their home, you know, under their roof. And it has to be, you know, what we do needs to be the best thing for our family unit. And so in this situation, I know they don't have kids yet, so they're trying to prepare for when they have children. I would first ask you, is there a way? She didn't really say how far her parents are from his parents, but if there's some way to be somewhere in the middle there, that would probably be ideal because it would give them that little bit of space, and it wouldn't be this. This kind of struggle of, well, you know, we're a half mile from his parents, but we're like 20 miles from mine, you know? And I know that may not necessarily work with your work situation, but I would look at that, and I would also, you know, like Dave said, consider. Don't kind of not consider moving away for a little bit. I think that that could do you a lot of good. I think a lot of times people won't consider different job opportunities or different things that maybe God's putting on their heart because they're scared of what it's gonna look like without being close to mom and dad. But I'm telling you, so it's awesome what God will do in a couple's life and really helping them to leave and cleave, like it says in the word, you know, when they're willing to step out. And I know not everybody's called to that. We know plenty of really amazing, healthy couples that have lived really close to their parents most of their life. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And it's great to be able to go to your grandparents and to, you know, once you have children, for the children to go see their grandparents and to have that wonderful relationship. So I understand that, you know, moving away can cause some other kind of logistical things that you have to kind of work around. But I just wanna encourage you to realize that, you guys, you're gonna win together, you're gonna lose together, and the way you win together in this situation is deciding together what's best for you. Not what's best for your parents, but what's best for you as a couple. And really for the wife who wrote this question, really sharing your heart with your husband and saying, listen, this is why I wanna be a little closer to my mom. I don't wanna feel like I'm having to fight, you know, for your time and attention, you know, with your parents. I don't wanna feel like we're giving your parents more attention than my parents. And so what can it look like to where we both feel like we're winning here and we both feel like we're being heard. And I think when you start there and you don't point fingers and you really try to listen to each other and also share with each other, you're gonna be on a better path. Because right now I can tell it's causing some resentment and frustration.

Yeah, that's great advice. And if it would help you, and I think that it would, to talk through this issue with a counselor or with one of our coaches who could do it via phone or Skype, just to be an impartial third person, that mediator, to kind of help you both find common ground. Because don't let this issue be the sticking point that's going to create division in your marriage. Talk through it, work through it. And by working through it together, whatever the solution is, your marriage will come out stronger on the other side. You can get a hold of our coaches by going to marriagetoday.com coaches and again, the site for the book that's coming out that's based on this whole podcast season we're doing is nakedandhealthy.com Guys, thanks so much for listening. I hope your 2021 is off to a great start. Great things are to come and we look forward to seeing you next week. Bye. Bye.

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