Overcoming Past Abuse | The Naked Marriage Podcast | Dave and Ashley Willis

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Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we have a really good podcast for you today with a special guest where we're going to talk about some really serious things and things that we really haven't talked about before at length. And so I'm really excited about it. But before we dive in, I want to share a recent review with you. And thank you so much to those of you who have taken the time to review the podcast. It is the best way to let others know about this podcast. And so today we're going to share with you from T O K H E I M I don't think I would pronounce that correctly. So that's why I spelled it and then the number is 505 and it's entitled the Best podcast and it says I happened to see this podcast while searching one day. And I know it's no mistake that I was introduced to Dave and Ashley. My husband and I are newlyweds. He has listened to a few of the podcasts and has the exact same humor and personality as Dave, laughs every time and can relate. And then she put in parentheses and I'm usually cracking up too. I have listened to quite a few episodes at this point and I that I have gained more insight and info about marriage just from listening over a couple of months than throughout my whole lifetime. Growing up in the church and Christian school, coming from a broken home, growing up, I truly consider Dave and Ashley mentors of mine through this podcast. They are clearly so kind and completely genuine, non judgmental and people that I look up to. Practical advice and very open and honest podcast. I'm so grateful that my hubby and I have this resource early on in our marriage. Isn't that so sweet?

That's so good.

I love that.

And her husband sounds like he has an awesome sense of that.

He must. He must now.

Thank you so much for that review. That's so encouraging. When you guys write, write whatever you think of the podcast, it really encourages us. It also helps shape future episodes. It lets us know what's connecting, what's resonating and it helps other people discover this podcast. So it's really a partnership. You're partnering with us by helping spread the word. So thank you for that. Today we've got, like Ashley said, a very special guest. Her name is Kate Warman. We have been on her podcast, which is called the Heart of Dating. Kate is a relationship coach for literally thousands of single men and women, women all over the world, teaching relationship advice, dating advice from a Christian perspective, living, you know, her life as a Christian single woman. But she shares so much with courage of her background, dealing with abuse, dealing with shame, dealing with all kinds of different things that can help help you wherever you are, in whatever relationship status you might be. Of course, here on the Naked Marriage podcast, most everybody listening is already married, which is great. But even for us married folks there, there's so much in this PODC dealing with past baggage. So stick around, listen, you're gonna love it. But today's podcast episode is also a crossover episode with our other podcast. You might not even be aware we had another podcast, but we have one called the Pre Marriage Podcast with Dave and Ashley. Willis exclusively for, you know, dating couples, engaged couples, those who are in that season of life and not yet married, so. Or just preparing. Just preparing for marriage.

Right.

So check out the Pre Marriage Podcast, which is also free. Wherever you get your podcast, you know, Goog, Google play, Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, you can find it all those places. This episode is going to be on both podcasts. I know it's going to be awesome. So you're in for a treat today. Let's dive in.

Well, Kate, welcome to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are so excited to have you, and we have followed you for a long time. You know, we were on your amazing podcast, Heart of Dating. We were trying to figure out how long ago it was, but I think it was probably a year and a half or so ago. And we were honored to do that. And, you know, we're so excited to talk to you today specifically about your new book, thank youk For Rejecting. Transform Pain into Purpose and Learn to Fight for Yourself. And this book, I'm so excited to hear you talk about it, just because there's so much to unpack, first of all, because every single one of us can relate to the, you know, feeling rejected, but specifically when it comes to, you know, a romantic relationship. And so welcome to the podcast. Tell us, first of all, like, what inspired you to write this book?

You guys, I'm so excited to be here. So thank you so much. And that was such a fun conversation on Heart of Dating back in the day. So thank you guys for that.

That was so fun.

Yeah, we had a blast. We did. I loved that conversation.

We need to do it in California, where you are.

Where the beautiful Santa Monica.

You know, you're living in the sunshine here, where we were broadcasting, Texas just got pummeled with snow and ice. And it's, you know.

Oh, my gosh, you guys just went through the snow vid. I heard that's what everyone's calling snow vid. Have you heard that? Snow Vi.

That's awesome.

Or Snowmageddon. I don't know. All these different words.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I'm so excited. Yeah. I wrote this book. This is crazy. I don't even know if I maybe just started the writing process when we did our interview, which is so wild to think that now we're sitting here talking, my book is in the world. Like, what is happening?

Well, it's not just in the world. It's a bestseller in the world. Let's just acknowledge that. This book is a national bestseller, as it should be. And so congratulations.

Oh, My God.

Huge, huge deal.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. Ashley, tell me what your exact question was again, because I'm getting so excited that I forgot.

That's okay. I'm excited too. I just wanted to know kind of the inspiration behind this. I've heard you talk about it on Instagram. If you guys aren't following her, please follow her. Well, later on we're going to have you tell her where people can follow you because you put so much good info out there, you know, in that. In the social media community there. But I wanted to ask, you know, what was the inspiration? Because you don't see a lot of books on rejection and they're really, you know, it's kind of sad that we don't, because I guess it's that people aren't willing to talk about it. So what specifically inspired you to write this book?

Yeah, so it's really twofold. One being that I'm a dating coach. And so I help a lot of men and women, Christian, single men and women, navigate this ever so ambiguous world of dating. As a Christian and when I was dating coach, as I had been dating coaching, I have realized that a lot of the times I'm not just sitting here being the female version of Will Smith in the movie Hitch, even though I would love for everybody to get a date. And like, I love that, you know, I'm also helping them get out there. But we really, in our sessions also focused on not just their relationship with others, but really their relationship with God and their relationship with themselves. And so often when I dove into that with them, because the reason why we do that, by the way, is because that directly impacts how they were showing up and dating, how they were interacting, what they believed about other men and women that they were dating, how they attached in love, how they communicated all the things. It impacts the way your relationship with yourself and your relationship with God impacts how you show up in dating. And so what I saw so often is that they had these relationships with God where they felt like God was rejecting them or where God wasn't good to them because they're still single. So there was kind of this questioning of God's goodness within their belief system when it came to their singleness and dating lives. And then also just their belief system about themselves and how they viewed the world and how they viewed themselves when it came to interacting with somebody of the opposite gender. And I realized that there was a lot of self rejections going on or there's a lot of history of some kind of rejection that was plaguing the way they were showing up. So I was like, man, so many of my sessions with these clients started focusing on just those internal pieces, those rejection pieces, and how do we conquer some of those things before we move forward to actually date with confidence, joy, integrity, all of those elements in tandem with that, that's my story. My story is filled with a plethora of rejections. And the book, thank you for Rejecting me really talks about two kinds of rejections or two buckets external rejections which happen to all of us and we can't control when they happen. It could be anything from a heartbreak that happens in dating to abandonment that may happen at an earlier age in life or from a friend later in life. I also talk about things like abuse and betrayal and just so many elements that are my story of rejection and dealing with these big rejections, external rejections. But then the other, other category, you guys, is self rejections. And these are the ways if we don't address these things, then all the other external rejections are just going to hit us and all the lies that come with them are going to land and we're going to start walking in that identity of reject. An identity that's already rejected before other people even have the chance to continue to reject us. And so the book and my heart was also to really address the self rejections first. And then we could go into all the other ways because we have control over the self rejections, the ways we see ourselves, the ways we shame ourselves, the thoughts we're telling ourselves that are limiting us from stepping into the fullness of who God created us to be. And really the reason why I wrote this book is because it's what I've seen God do in my entire life with helping me heal and come into the fullness of the woman that I am, the single woman that I am, and just rewire the way I even saw and experienced God in my life. And so this is a book for people dating, but also more than that, as you guys mentioned, it's for anybody that's felt rejected or that is self rejecting right now and need some tools to get out of that, to walk into the fullness of who God created them to be.

I love that. That's huge.

Oh, it's huge. And it's a life changing message, really for anybody that picks it up. But I think that how you're so. You're so real and so vulnerable, not only in sharing stories from people you've helped and sharing principles from scripture, but Sharing your own journey, you know, with such transparency and vulnerability and the courage that, that, that takes. I just want to commend you because that does take a lot of courage to share. But the message is powerful and it gives so many people hope. Because I think when people suffer rejection or abuse of any kind, it can be so isolating, you know, when they think, you know, I'm the only one, I'm the only one that's feeling this or has ever felt this. But your courage is giving courage to others to be able to say, like, wow, that's my story too. And some of the messages in this book that not only connects to what my experience has been, but it gives me hope and tools of what I can do to step out of that and emerge out of that. So what would be your message to somebody who's in. Let's just start right here with the abuse part. Like an abusive situation right now and they're listening and they're like, you know, this isn't just a part of my past, but I'm living this now. It's not just the past rejection, but I feel trapped in this cycle, in an unhealthy or toxic situation. What's your advice to them?

Yeah, and I love that you said that. It gives permission for people to really feel seen. And that's the heart of why I wrote this book. Because to go to your point, Dave, when I was in an abusive relationship over eight years ago, it was a two and a half year cycle where I was just in this relationship going through the abuse, Merry go round, as I call it. And it was all kinds of abusive, emotional, physical, sexual, all the spiritual, even in ways and so just every way abusive. And what I would have given for somebody in that time to just say, I see you. Your story makes sense. You are not crazy. This is really happening. Like, I just. Nobody did, you know, And I don't fault the people at the time. I just think there was a lack of awareness of what was really happening. And abusers are very convincing. You know, a lot of people in my life knew the person that I was dating and he was very charismatic and nobody could ever think that he would be that way behind closed doors. Not only that, you being abused as the victim, it does sometimes bring out the worst in you. So if somebody doesn't have the eyes to really spot it, they're going to be like, wait, there's something wrong with you here. Not that person. This person's nice, they're charismatic, they seem fine. I think there's Something going. You seem the one off the rails. And that, I mean, that is just what happened to me. So my message in this book is my hope and goal is to make people feel seen and not alone. And to the person right now in an abusive relationship, man, I want you to know that it can happen to anybody. So the biggest messages I felt when I was being abused was, how could this be happening to me? I am this New York City career woman, and I'm walking in every day. I worked in fashion at the time, and I'm like striding in with my lipstick, my hair done. And nobody would have thought that behind closed doors I was truly going through this terribly abusive and toxic situation. I was fighting with this man Till, like 4am There were just awful things happening, you guys. And so first of all, I want you to know that it can happen to anyone. It doesn't just mean that you are weak and that you are frail and that those are bad labels that, like, we put on ourselves and we get stuck in shame thinking, like, how could I should be smarter than this? How can this happen to me? And so I just want you to know you're not alone and this can happen to anyone. Manipulators and abusers are very good at what they do. And unfortunately, they're just broken people living out their brokenness in a really extreme way that really, really, really need healing. But that doesn't mean we should stand by them. So my number one piece of advice to somebody being abused is what I had to learn is that when you are in the abuse cycle, you just so badly want to convince that person to change. You so badly want to convince them, like, can you just see how you're treating me? Can you just recognize that I'm worth more than this treatment? And the reality is that somebody who's abusive just doesn't on the same scale of empathy and compassion and even logic as you do. So you're going to try to convince them of something that they may never be able to see. And what I had to realize in my abusive scenario, which really took a long time for me to realize there's a lot of codependency happening in abusive relationships. You put a lot of your identity in that person. But what I had to learn at the end of the day is that you cannot change an unhealthy person or make an unhealthy person want to change. The best thing you can do is literally walk away and pray for them. That is the only thing you could do is just prayer and separation. But you have to detach yourself. You have to get out of that environment as soon as possible, no matter what they may be threatening you with. You need to find safe people to talk to. You can call the National Domestic Abuse Hotline. You need to get yourself in a position where you have a safety. But you have to know that the only thing that you can do, truly, is get away from them and pray for them. They will most likely never change to be the person that you want them to be. And it's a real hard reality that we just have to face to know so that we find the freedom that we need.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

I'm so glad that you talked about how that can happen to anyone. I think that's why so many people, even in abusive marriages, you know, our primary audience is a bunch of married people. And so we do get messages sometimes from people asking about abuse specifically. And I think that there is. They're just afraid of kind of, I don't know, being judged themselves. You know, even though it's like, you know, and I've walked through this with some dear friends of mine before, and I've had to reassure my friend. Walking through this, I'm like, you did nothing. Like, there's. The gaslighting is a real thing where, you know, this person has gotten in your head for so long that you can feel like, did I bring on the fact that you were hurting me physically or emotionally or sexually? And, you know, it's. I think it does take people who've been abused a long time to realize that there's nothing they did to deserve this. And like you said, it can happen to anyone. And I do think a lot of them carry this silently in shame. And so we just wanna speak directly to anybody who is being abused right now. Woman or man? It could be both. Okay. I think a lot of times we assume it could just be the woman, but this can happen to men as well. Like Kate said, get to a safe place. You don't deserve this. God does not want you to be abused. Okay? God loves you. You are his child. You are his beloved. You are his masterpiece. And he wants you to feel safe. You shouldn't have to live in fear every day. And so definitely talk to a trusted friend. That hotline, I believe it's called the hotline.com or.org. sweetie, do you remember if they look up the hotline, it comes up.

If you just Google. I know.

Google it.

Google abuse. Domestic. If just the word abuse is in your Google search, the hotline will pop up. Right away. And the phone number and the website 24 7. You can get support there. So such great advice that you don't have to live like this. No, there's help available and you can't change them, you can't fix them. I love all the wisdom Kate just shared with us. So don't beat yourself up for this. Don't stay in a situation feeling like you can change the person. Only God can change people and they have to have a willing heart themselves to really change. But you can't be the one to do it. You've got to, you got to get safe. And that's, that's not all this book is about. Just that part of the book would have been worth the price of the book. Yes, but there's so much more, there's so much more about, like dealing with, with past shame, you know, for instance. And I love the way that you tackle the issue of sexual, sexual shame and particularly in the evangelical world where it's not really talked about in a healthy way. I mean, you obviously talk about it in a very healthy way in an open way. But I think so often churches and people within the church, they just haven't known how to talk about it. And so there's all these people carrying all this sexual shame and baggage and regret and confusion, but they don't have a safe place to process it. And so they just, they kind of carry the shame when Christ has come to take the shame off of us. And so what would be some of your advice to, you know, those who are struggling with that? And maybe that's the very thing that's sort of self sabotaging in their life or they're allowing that to be a sabotaging factor in their relationships.

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Yeah, so shame is the direct thing that the enemy wants to use to keep us separated from God's heart and God's love. It's like a block that comes that gets built over time, you know, and it's God's love is there. It's never leaving us. It's ever present, omnipresent. But there's a wall sometimes. And that wall is the same wall that, like, we know it's there, but I can't feel it. You hear a lot of people say that, I know God's love is there. I just can't feel it. Well, usually it's because there's like, this wall of shame that is separating them from the love of God that we need to break down, you know, and so when it comes to sexual shame, man, that is a. That's a real thing that I wanted to include in the book. It's such a big part of my story. I think it also impacts just how you see yourself and your body and how God created you and your sexuality and just everything. And for me, I grew up in the purity culture, and I kissed. Dating goodbye was like a thing at my youth group that was really highly used. And I had a boyfriend. And I talk about this story in the book where, you know, we were in a relationship, but then apparently we weren't supposed to be in a relationship without permission from the youth group leader. I didn't know that. I thought I just needed to get my parents permission. So we had to go to them to get permission. And then we had to, like, read this entire form with all these rules, sign this form, and then commit to going every few weeks to get marriage counseling to move towards marriage at the age of 16. And I. This is like a big pressure situation. Of the things on that paper were like, don't, you know, never use a blanket Always sit with two pillows between you at all times. Your face has to be a foot away from each other, and you can only be hanging out in groups ever. And again, I see their intention, but it just was so strict and so harsh and kind of just like, do not do this. Like, almost like, if you have sex, you will die kind of. Kind of language, you know, And I'm like, okay, okay, okay. You know? And it just. It scares you. Scares you. And that any kind of teaching that is shaming or shoulding on you, I like to use. I say people like to should on us. Like, you should do this. You should do that. And I'm like, I'm gonna. Wait a second. I'm gonna. I don't have. You can't shit on me. I know. And. But it took me a long time to realize that there's also a lot of, you know, messaging for me as a woman just in the purity culture and just how I should behave and how. More so is my job to, like, make sure that he never looked at me a certain way. I was like, oh, there's just pressure for me as a woman. And me and this man, and we did end up messing up, and we didn't feel like we had a safe place to share about our sexual experience, and we kept it silent and hidden. And what did that do? That created shame on our relationship? Now someone's listening. And that was their story back in the day. Or maybe they heard the purity culture teachings and they went the opposite direction. They didn't do anything, you know, like, okay, okay, so I can't. No, no. Even touching of the hand, you know, it's like nothing. And they become so dissociated with their. Either way, either side. Whether you engage sexually before marriage or whether you didn't, it still creates a lot of shame on the conversation of your sexuality and who we are and what our bodies, the beauty of our bodies and the relationship with them. And so I don't want to say that all the purity culture teachings were bad. I believe that they had good intention. I just believe sometimes the way they were shared and how they were framed up were a bit shaming, and they created shame. And these seeds of shame started growing. And now we have people that are entering into marriages that are having a really hard time connecting to their spouse, because what are we supposed to do? Go from 0 to 100? All of a sudden, I never touch a hand, and now suddenly I'm supposed to want to take their clothes off? Like, what? Oh, my gosh. How do you go to those paradigm shifts. But it's more than that. It's more what have you believed about yourself and your sexuality for years? And those belief systems don't just change when you say, I do. And so. And so a lot of this shame is something I had to work through. And, you know, I'll be honest with you guys, that shame led me to going through, to be actually keeping it so all my sexual experiences so bottled down that eventually I was sexually assaulted. And I completely blamed myself. And so much so that I never even told anybody about it. I just was like, this is my fault that I did this. I must have been in the wrong scenario because I knew this person. It must have been because of what I was wearing. It's just something I must caused this. I never told the soul, never called it sexual assault, and just compartmentalized it until one day somebody asked me, have you been raped? And I was like, I don't know, actually. And all the. All the things came bubbling to the surface and I realized I had tried to put it down in this box, but the reality was that that was my story, that was what had happened. And I just continued to pile that shame onto myself and the enemy was just eating away at me, saying, your sexuality is bad, bad. You are marked with like, this history of past sexual sin, and you're never going to get out of that. And so I had to go on a journey of finding freedom for myself and redefining what does God really say about sex and how can I come into understanding, understanding of the beauty of my body and what he created my desire for and. And break and start breaking down these layers of shame. And I think that that's the thing here, you guys. It's a process, like I said, the beginning. It's a wall of sh. Know you're taking down each brick by brick until you're fully encapsulated with the love of God, which has never really left you. It's just the shame is acting like that block and that shield away from his love. And so once we can do that, then we can start rebuilding and saying, what is. How did God really design sex? I know you guys love talking about this, so, you know, it's like, how did God really design sex? What is it for? How can we live into the fullness of knowing the truth about that it is beautiful and good and that he made all of this and he loves, loves all of that and knowing, especially as a single person, what it was designed for and where the safety is within it. Which is for the design of marriage, which is then I can walk out my singleness in a holistic mindset of knowing why I am staying abstinent and hold that firm and true so that in a place that is grounded in a place that says, I love my body, my sexual desire is good, and I want to honor myself and honor God and honor this person. And therefore I'm going to abstate because I know God design for me is to do this in the best way possible in marriage. And so that's. It's missing. We are missing grace, we're missing compassion, we are missing just safe places for people to talk about their struggles. And that's really my hope with some of the things I wrote in the book and just to share with other people that we need safe places to land and so much more compassion, especially on this topic of sex and sexuality.

That is so true. And I think that has a lot to do with the self rejection that you talk about. I mean, it's, you know, those places of shame. And I do think sexual shame is one of the biggest things that Satan loves to hold over our head. You know, I mean, he loves to mess with people, you know, who, whether they've chosen, you know, to have multiple sexual partners or if something terrible's been done to them, you know, he still holds it over their head. And, you know, as, as a marriage podcast, we talk about this a lot because I think, and this could go the same in a serious dating relationship or an engagement. There are people where this has happened to them and they won't say anything because they don't want their partner to see them in a different light. And really what it leads to, though, is just more shame. And then, you know, not only do you have the self rejection that you're feeling, you assume that your spouse or your boyfriend, your girlfriend, you know, your fiance is going to reject you if they knew. And it's. So we just, we're perpetuating this wall of shame that you're talking about. And so I love how in your book the healing that needs to happen. I mean, that's a big part of your book. And so what would you say to someone today that is listening and they're like, that's my story. I feel like sex is just this thing that I don't even know how to come to grips with it and see it as the beautiful gift that it is because I just loathe myself. I am so disgusted by my past. Whether something was done to them or if they did things what would you say to that person?

Man. So chapter two of my book is all about self hatred. Honestly, you guys can't read the chapter without crying. Because I think it just taps into such a place of an identity that I've lived for so long. And when I say self hatred, you know, people are like, oh, my gosh. Well, I don't hate myself, like, entirely. And, you know, usually you don't hate yourself entirely, but you're usually dipping your toes in waters of self hatred. And how are you doing that? You're doing that through the ways you're talking to yourself about yourself, the ways you're shaming yourself, the ways you're shooting yourself, telling yourself you're not good enough. Or if you say something like the wrong way, you're like, I shouldn't have said it that way. You know better, Kate. And just our internal dialogues of what we're seeing about ourselves or if we do mess up in a sexual situation, you know, it's immediately like, oh my gosh, you did it again. You are just never going to get back. You're never going to adhere to a boundary or if somebody makes an advance on you or God forbid, you are abused in some sexual fashion, you know, the internal dialogues that you're like, this was my fault. What did I do? This is, I caused this. And those dialogues go for years and years and years, and they, they, they end up defining what you believe about yourself and then how you're walking that out in your life. And so there's a moment in the book where I had to have come face to face with previous versions of myself. And I used to. I looked at photos of myself as a younger version and I was like, I would hate looking at myself in younger versions because I'd be like, oh, gosh. Like, that girl represents so much to me that I just have work to get away from. And I would look at her with disgust. I would look at her and be like, oh, she was dramatic, she was out of control, she was mean, she was this, she was that. And it was just even me saying that right now. That is the language of shame. I'm literally looking at a previous version of myself, which is still me, and just shaming myself entirely. And. And what I had to do was say, wait a second, this is the loving. This is the ingredient we all need. It's self compassion. How can I look at that version of myself and say, oh, my gosh? Like, the reason why that version of myself was acting up and doing these things was because she was she didn't feel seen at home, she didn't feel loved by her parents, she was bullied. And how can we look at that version of ourselves and just that season, whatever time it was in your life that started these lies and look at that version of yourself just with love and compassion and understanding and curiosity. Well, why was I showing up those ways? What was really going on? I didn't just show up those ways because it was in my DNA. No, I showed up those ways because things happened to me that, you know, led me to show up in those certain ways. So how can you look at yourself with curiosity, previous versions, your past, with curiosity and find compassion for yourself? Compassion and self compassion is the ultimate antidote to shame, is we have to have compassion for ourselves. And in doing that we're able to more, more directly access God's love in a way that's true and deep. It's when we talk about knowing God's love not just by saying oh, I know God loves me, but like truly feeling it, going from the head to the heart to say, wait, I know God loves me, I can feel it in the depths of my soul. But if you are consistently telling yourself and looking at past versions of yourself being like oh gosh, that version or oh gosh, when that happened, you're not giving yourself the love and compassion that God really wants you to give yourself. And that God gives you for every phase and season of your life. And so the ultimate antidote to any sort of shame is curiosity and self compassion. And it's so hard to do. And I believe it's a continual process. You guys. Like I don't think we ever arrive at some perfect version of always just having self compassion. But as you start moving down, it's like a neural path. It's like a path. You've created a ditch over here that's really easy for you to, it's a well walked out on path, but you don't want to go down that path anymore. You know where it leads? Well, you have to start creating a new path over here. And as you start walking on that path over and over, choosing the self compassion, it becomes easier, becomes easier to find. It becomes more of your natural default to say when you mess up or when you feel like you've sinned or just something comes up for you, it's easier to go, okay, no, I'm self compassion, I let me get curious with myself. How did that come up? Why did that, that come up? Let me, let me see where that came from and how Do I invite God into that place to really help his, Let his love help heal me so that could bring me to tears because it just. It's a constant life journey and it's so freeing. It is so freeing. And it's. It is what unlocks our ability to step into the truth of who God really called us to be. You know, I love that it's life.

Changing that the message of self compassion, the way you describe it, is, I think, one of the most life changing messages a person can hear. And not only for relationships, not only for dating, but in every part of your life, that self compassion, applying that, showing that mercy, that grace that you probably naturally all of us extend to other people more likely than we extend it to ourselves sometimes. And that can be just absolutely life changing. Kate, I know when we started I joked with you that our podcast is three hours and you were being such a good sport, you know, even though I know you've got all kinds of stuff to do. She was like, I am not prepared for this, but we could talk to you for three hours is the thing. Because you are fascinating and just. You have so much wisdom to share.

She does, absolutely.

But I thank you so much for being here and for those listening and watching right now, get her new book. Thank you for rejecting me. Transform pain into purpose and learn to fight for your yourself, wherever you are, whatever season of life you're in. I really believe there are things in this book, just like there have been in this conversation with Kate, that could transform the way you see yourself, the way you see God, the way that you interact in relationship.

And we also, we want to make sure listeners know how to get in touch with you, Kate, and how to listen to your podcast and follow you on social media. So how can they do that?

Yeah, well, they can come over on the gram. I love connecting with people over there. Just, we have such a great community. But my personal Instagram is Kaiteness, which is spelled K A I T N E S S. And then we have Heart of Dating. We have an Instagram Facebook group podcast. If you, yeah, if you just want to get involved, if you are recently divorced, whatever stage you are, come and join what we're doing because there's going to be somebody over there that would want to connect with you and love on you and make you feel. And if you want the book, you can get it wherever books are sold. Which is so wild to say, y'.

All.

I still can't. As I say it every time I'm like, yes, ever. You can get it on Amazon, you could get it at Target, like all the places.

So. And it is a bestseller again. Just, just hit the list last week. And we're so thrilled for you and but I'm not a bit surprised because it's incredible content and I'm just, we are cheering you on, knowing that God's gonna continue open huge doors of opportunity. And also, also for the people who read this book, you are going to be so encouraged, you're going to be so helped. And so, Kate, thank you for the world changing work you are doing and we just love hanging out with you and look forward to seeing you again real soon.

Well, that was just such an amazing conversation with Kate and I'm excited to dive into today's Q and A. Sweetie, do you want to read it?

I would love to. All right. Thanks for sending in these questions, by the way. Again, you can find us on social media, media avanashleywillis on Instagram or on Facebook. You can just search for our names or for marriage and we'll pop up. But the questions we answer here on air are the ones sent in@nakedmarriagepodcast.com so today's question says, my husband and I had our first child 16 months ago. Our libidos used to be about the same. Since having our son, however, mine has dropped significantly. I thought it was maybe hormonal or because I was sleep deprived, but we are all good now on sleep and it's been 16 months, so surely hormones have figured themselves out. I don't know what to do. I miss wanting to have sex with my husband and I know he would receive this well, but I still don't know how to talk about it. It's been going on so long. I don't want him to feel like I'm just lying around waiting to have sex for the last year. I love our son very much, but I miss our life before when it was just us. So congratulations on your son, your growing family, and thank you for the courage in writing this. I think so many people find themselves in this similar dynamic, especially after having that first child or any big life transition. But so few people will really talk about it. And so we want to be a safe place where we talk about these things. So thank you for the question. You're not alone. Many people have found themselves in the same dynamic. Sweetie, what's your advice?

No, I do appreciate her honesty and I get the feeling right there she said, I love our son. Absolutely, absolutely. But I miss our life before when it was just Us. I went through this. Do you remember? I mean, I broke down and cried and it just. Even though. I mean, we were thrilled to be parents. And so I totally get that sentiment. And then there's the guilt you feel because you're a little bit grieving, being just the two of you. That doesn't mean you don't love your child or children. I mean, it's just saying, like, it was different. And I do miss that. But I wanna tell you this. She made a comment about saying, surely the hormones have figured themselves. And I understand that. You know, usually you can tell just by the physiological changes that a woman goes through. You know, with having a baby, nursing a baby, stopping nursing a baby, all those things. You know, we lose big chunks of our hair. I mean, the hormones do a lot to our bodies. Our mood can be all over the place, our emotions can be all over the place. But I would just say don't assume that, because I know even from experience that just because it's been 16 months doesn't mean that your hormones are leveled out. And also. And Dave can speak to this. We have this little thing called a thyroid in our body, in our neck.

Yeah, I got one. It's all messed up.

It's all messed up. And he has to take medication for it. But with women, I've heard that many women, and I have friends actually where their thyroid, even if it's not like their hormones per se, that are out of whack, their thyroid can be a little off kilter. And that can cause a huge drop in sex drive. And so I would just encourage you to go to your doctor. You can even go to your ob GYN and say, listen, can you test me for my hormone levels, my testosterone levels, you know, all the different levels, you know, hormonally. But can you also do a scan of my thyroid, make sure that my thyroid levels are correct? Because it could be the culprit. And that is something that is actually fixable. I mean, you can take medication to help with that. Same thing with your hormones. There are things you can do that will help with that. And. And so I wanna give you hope in knowing that it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't. You know, you don't have to forever not feel like you ever wanna have sex again. There are things that you can do. And I think talking about it is key. And just, you know, owning the fact that you're feeling this way and that, you know, you feel a little off sexually right now. And just being honest with your husband because, you know, it's just, it's important to be honest about these things with each other and that keeps the connection close. But I think getting help and reaching out is key.

And like Ashley said, there are solutions to almost every sex drive killer out there. I mean, the hormones, things like bioidentical that you can take that are going to naturally give you a boost in terms of your sex drive and the hormone levels or medically. There are things out there. So keep looking for solutions. But then also, I know that you're not just the two of you, you and anymore, but your marriage is still and always should be a high priority. And if you can do some things to get back to just the two of you, and maybe that's planning a weekend away where it's just you two and you get somebody to come and watch your son or you get away and it's just you two, or maybe it's trying to get back out on their own date nights consistently where you're just reconnecting as a couple. You're not just mom and dad, but your husband and wife and partners and best friends again. And like Ashley said, being really honest and about where you are taking some of that pressure off of yourself and just not beating yourself up like something's wrong with me and it's never going to be right again. But just say no. This is a season we're in and my body's been through trauma. We've been through all this transition, but we've got so much to be thankful for right now with this growing family. And we're going to keep moving forward and keep looking for solutions and even pray about it. Pray. I think God wants us to pray about it. Sex life. He cares about it even more than you do. So check those things out to get a plug in for the book that all these podcasts have been based on through this series. Our new book, Naked and Healthy, both the audiobook or the paperback. I think that there are some practical things in there that could help with not only the reconnection in marriage, but just the overall being at your best mentally, physically and spiritually, that could help. So check out those resources.

That's right. And thank you all so much for listening to this episode. We will see you next time. We have some great news. Want to watch or listen the Naked Marriage Podcast Without Ads The Naked Marriage Podcast is now available on XO now without ads. Support this podcast in exo Marriage and get ad free access to the Naked Marriage Podcast. Plus you get access to everything else on EXO now courses, conferences, live events, over 600 marriage experts, and hours and hours of marriage content. Visit now.exomarriage.com naked to start your free trial and use the Code Naked podcast to get 25% off your first month. Also, as an extra extra bonus, get access to the podcast the day before everyone else. That's now.xomarriage.com naked to start your free trial and use the Code Naked podcast to get 25 off your first month. Visit xonow.com naked to start your free trial and use the Code Naked podcast to get 25 off your first month. Also, as an extra bonus, get access to the podcast the day before everyone else, which is awesome. That's exonow. Com Naked to start your free trial and use the Code Naked podcast to get 25% off your first month.