Protecting Kids From Porn | Parenting Uncovered | Dave & Ashley Willis

Foreign. Welcome back to Parenting Uncovered. We are Dave and Ashley Willis. And you guys, we are so excited that you're coming back to hear another episode. And today we are talking about something that maybe a lot of. A lot of parents aren't comfortable talking about. But we know from the statistics, we know from personal struggles, and we know just from raising kids that it's something we need to talk about, and that is pornography.

Yeah. Yeah. This is a hot button issue. Teaching your kids about pornography, letting them know that this exists and being the one to teach them that this is out there so that you're not just reacting when they get exposed or when people are talking about it or when some kid with the phone on the bus shows them images that they didn't want to see. Because a lot of times when kids are first exposed to pornography, they're not looking for it, it's looking for them. We just live in a world where it's. It's out there, it's everywhere, it's pervasive. And chances are high that even if you're doing everything in your power to protect your kids, to limit their technology, all those things, they're still gonna be exposed to it before they leave your house. And that's a sad reality, but it's just something that you need to get out in front of, because when someone's first exposure to sex and sexual images are counterfeits that are gonna put in their mind these counterfeit messages that they need to be able to come to you as the parent and you be able to talk to them openly and honestly about sex. God's gift of sex, the way it's intended to be. It's to celebrate sex within marriage, but outside of marriage. These counterfeits like pornography, which objectify people, there's just nothing good that comes from it. And we know this, like Ashley said, from statistics. We know this from Bible verses, and I know this also from personal experience. I was one of those kids who was exposed to porn early, and this was long before the Internet. I'm from the Stone Ages, but back when it was just magazines and stuff. But those images locked in my mind and really warped my thinking as it related to sex and just the sacredness of other human beings. And it was something we really had to work through. Is that addiction really bled into the early part of our marriage and broke a lot of trust, and we had to work through that together. We talk a lot about that on our Naked Marriage podcast, how it directly related to the. So we won't get stuck on that point, because this is about teaching your kids about it. But we do have a book if you're struggling or your spouse is struggling. We have a book called the Counterfeit Climax, which goes into great depth about this issue. How to break free, how to reclaim God's gift for sex in your marriage. But we want to camp out in this episode specifically on how to protect our kids from it and how to teach our kids about it.

Absolutely. And I'd love, sweetie, for you to share that stat because I don't want to get it wrong because you're more well versed on this. Because I want to give a plug for another book that's a great resource and that book is one by Dave called Raising Boys who Respect Girls. In that book, you do give a lot of information about pornography, especially how a lot of boys fall into a porn habit or a porn addiction. But I just want to say too that this is increasingly a struggle that many girls are experiencing.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's not necessarily gender specific. I believe the porn industry just from, I mean, there's stats on this too. They have made a concerted effort to, to get more women lured in. I mean, this is true. And then magazines like Cosmo are perpetuating this as well, acting like, well, if you're not looking at porn and you're not self pleasuring, like, you know, what's wrong with you? Like, literally, like what's wrong with you? Like you're not empowering yourself as a woman. Like, this is the narrative. And I think that, you know, if I was a young woman reading this, I mean, it would be confusing. Cause you're like, oh, well, I wanna be empowered. I mean, it's good to be empowered. Right. And so we really need to, as parents again, get ahead of it. And I think first and foremost we have to not have our head kind of under a pillow. Like, well, I just don't want this to exist. They're my babies. Like, I don't want to have to talk about this. And you know, I get that sentiment, but it's just the world we live in, you know, sadly. But it's something that we can get ahead of. So what is that statistic about the first time that most kids are exposed to porn?

Yeah, well, and the stats keep changing because the world keeps changing and the technology keeps advancing. But the most recent I saw is average age of first exposure is somewhere around the age of 10.

Yes.

And 95% both of us were exposed.

Before the age of 10. Because how old were you?

You know, I Don't think I was earlier than 10.

So you weren't, were you about 10?

No. I mean, I was like an early teenager, I think.

Okay.

I was like, again, there was no Internet. It was just a different time. But those images, like as a kid going through like puberty and all the hormones raging and it just kind of created the perfect storm. And I know parents don't even want to think about their kids being tempted by these images because it's hard for us to look at our children as sexual beings who have temptation and that stuff.

But they definitely have curiosity.

Your kids are curious, they're human, and they're going to have questions and stuff. One of the big responsibilities of parenthood is to help prepare them and equip them to have a healthy view of sex as they grow. And so it's awkward. I know we've talked specifically about teaching your kids about sex, so we want go back and listen to that episode. But the porn part, man, that is sabotaging minds. It's sabotaging marriages. It's wrecking people's mental health because long term porn use is tied to anxiety and depression and alienation from other people. Sexual dysfunction. There's nothing good in the long term that comes from it. It's like a toxic drug. You get a temporary high from it, then the more you use it, the more desensitized you get. You have to keep going back to it in greater dosage just to fe feel kind of normal. And all the while you're really wrecking your brain. Just like a chemical addiction would do.

Exactly.

So we've got to be mindful. So, yeah, average age first exposure around 10, 95% or so see some form of pornography, like an explicit image. Explicit image before they turn 18, boys and girls. And so those images are locked in our head and they leave deep and lasting impressions that create our expectations, that create insecurities in our own bodies and everything else. And so we've got to let our kids know. Listen. This is fake. What you're watching is fake. We on our Naked Marriage podcast interviewed former adult film actor whose name is Joshua Broome. That wasn't his performing name, but his real name is Joshua Broome. And he's now saved following Jesus. He's a pastor, he's happily married, has kids, but he talks about that world, how it they go to great lengths to create this artificial reality that is in no way indicative of what sex really is or really looks like. Or it's completely artificial. But it's teaching people that, well this is how sex is supposed to look. And it's completely sabotaging folks. And so that interview really was eye opening for me.

It is eye opening because I do think there's. Even among, you know, Christians, there's been this narrative of, like, well, if you're not, you know, if it's between the husband and wife, no big deal, or even with kids, like, you know what? They'll get over it. Like, they're just curious. They'll get over it. We have, like two extremes. We have people who don't want to talk about it at all and think that their kid would never look at it. And then we have others where they just don't see it as a big deal. And so, you know, again, we have to go back to what God's word says about it. And we know that Jesus, you know, he said to look at a woman with lust, or you could say to look at a man with lust is essentially infidelity. Okay. It's also, you know, it's using that person in a way that isn't godly. Right. And so pornography, you know, obviously is perpetuating this and it's teaching bad habits. And so with all of that said, like, I shared that I was 8 years old. Again, I grew up in. I was born in 81, and I grew up like my formative years were in the 90s, but in the 80s. Okay, so this is like late 80s. I'm at a friend's house. She has older brothers. Okay. And so this is something as parents. Be really, be really kind of aware of this.

Yeah, just be aware.

What is the sibling dynamic with your kids, Friends. Okay. And I was over at the house and I think our moms were actually in the house. And at some point, one of the little girls, who I think was a little older than me, just took that magazine out of curiosity and. And then like went behind the shed in their backyard and was like, hey, I wanna show you something. And then we were all like, oh, my gosh, disgusting. Like, we were like, what is this? And I just remember, I mean, those images stick in your mind. It wasn't just naked pictures. It was actually sexual acts, pictures of sexual acts. And I mean, I'm an 8 year old then I had no idea. Like, I didn't know what was happening, but I knew, you know, like, as a human being looking at nudity, looking at these sexually explicit images, you know, they stick with you. And I just remember being like, what in the world? And so, I mean, and I was 8 and I grew up in a family, very cautious, very involved family, Parents who, you know, heartbroken that I would be exposed to something like that. So I think sometimes, you know, as parents, we, of course, we're doing everything we can to protect our kids. We're putting safeguards in place. But we do have to realize that sometimes it still happens, and it doesn't mean we're a failure. But I think the best thing we can do is get ahead of it, know that they're aware of it, so that we become that safe place. You know, I remember years ago, we were asked to speak to a youth group about this specifically. That's a hard word to say real quick. And anyway, I remember we had like, a Q and A at the end of our sharing your testimony and talking about the dangers of porn and things like that. And we had one of the teenage boys who I believe was probably 16 at the time, he raised his hand and he said, do you ever worry that you talking so openly about this to people like us is going to make it seem more enticing? Do you remember him asking that?

Yeah, it was a good question.

And it was a good question. And I get where he's coming from. And I think a lot of parents have the same thought.

Right. I don't even want to put it in their head.

Right.

So if I pretend that it doesn't exist, then it's like it doesn't exist.

Like, I'm going to act like this is. We're in a separate world, and we want to keep our kids in a bubble.

We do. But we cannot control the total environment that our kids are in. And the older they get, the less we can control. I heard a parent say that has grown kids. He said, I didn't realize at the time, but I never really had control as a parent. All you have as a parent is the illusion of control. And we have influence, but we really don't have control. And so we've got to use our influence every way we can to help point our kids in the right direction and let them know, listen, I always want to be a safe place for you. I want you to be able to talk to me about anything. Even the awkward stuff. Especially the awkward stuff. Yeah.

You can bring anything to me.

Yeah. Like. And we had a. When. I think we've referenced this before, but when Cooper, our oldest, was his first day of eighth grade, he was riding the bus. No, we haven't talked about this kid. He came home from school and he said, hey, guys. And we're like, hey, how was your day? He's like, it was fine. And he said, let me ask you a question. And he said, do girls really like it when boys text them pictures of their penises?

I mean, just point blank, that was.

How the conversation started. And so, you know, one thing we've learned in parenthood is like, never looked. Never look shocked, even though you're completely shocked, because that shuts the conversation down. And so we're, you know, are pretty good at acting in these kind of situations.

In the moment.

In the moment. And so we just said, well, buddy, no, they don't. But unpack that. Like, where, you know, where's this coming from? And he's like, well, there were these boys on the bus and they were. They were taking pictures of their privates. And then, you know, trying to show people on the bus, trying to show me. And I, like, pushed the phone down, like, man, I don't want to see that. And then one was laughing and he said he was texting it to a girl, and he was laughing and saying, girls love getting pictures like this.

Well, and the girls were texting their body images too. You know what I'm saying?

And he was like, so is this, like, is this normal? And we just like, buddy, listen, this is not good. It's not normal. In fact, it's illegal. It's actually considered a form of child pornography. And even those who are doing it, even if it's their own body, you can get in serious, serious trouble for that. But it gave us an opportunity to talk about how the world is broken in this area, and technology has just amplified that brokenness. And our kids are broken growing up in such a confusing time. And our kids are having moments like this, and you need to just sometimes ask them, like, listen, has anybody ever shown you a bad picture on their phone? Or, I mean, just open the conversation and let them know that you're a safe place to talk about it. And don't freak out when they tell you that they have seen something. And just let that be a conversation starter. To say, listen, you're in a world where people who are creating these counterfeit images or trying to get other people to send images of their own body, that's out there, and that's unfortunate and that's sad. And I hate that you're having to grow up in a world where that even exists. But I just want you to know that God has a better plan. A better plan for you, a better plan for them. Your body is sacred. It is special. The gift of sex is sacred. And Wonderful and awesome. It's not dirty or bad. It's amazing, but it's powerful. And it's meant to be in marriage only between a man and a woman for life. And in any use of it outside of that, it always hurts people. And so everything God tells us to do is to protect us. It's not to limit us or steal our fun. It's to protect us. And when we get out of bounds in this particular area, the area of sex, it creates a different kind of level of hurt and baggage and confusion. And that's why God is so serious about us getting this right now. If we make mistakes, he's there to forgive us. And we can embrace that grace. We never have to live in shame. But we're sabotaging ourselves, other people, and our future relationships. If we're buying these counterfeits.

We really are. And I think we need to think about. I'm sure kind of the question has popped into your mind, if you're listening and watching this is, you know, okay, I am in agreement that porn is not a good thing. I don't want my kids to end up with a porn habit, and I want to protect them. I think a lot of parents are like, well, when do we start this conversation? Or when do we take steps to protect them, specifically against the influence of pornography? And. And I would say, like, I know for us in particular, you know, all of us watching this who have kids, we are raising digital natives. Like, they are exposed to technology. I mean, you might be one of the amazing parents who were able to stave it off for a while, and I commend that. And there's like, we have another episode where we talk about this, about kind of prolonging that exposure. But the odds are, even in the classroom, they're on devices. And yes, schools usually have filtering systems that can protect them. But it's so easy, you guys. Even if your child doesn't have a device, they don't have an iPad, they don't have an iPhone or some other kind of device where they can go online. They have friends who do. Okay, they have friends that. Who do. And so here's some tools. So I would say I would start having this conversation really, like, mid elementary school. I mean, I think that's when we kind of started it. So around the third grade, the age of third grade, wouldn't you say, sweetie?

Yeah, just letting them know, like, hey, you know, they're. There's some stuff on the Internet. There's stuff that might pop up that is not good. And I want you to always be able to talk to us about that. And we're doing our best to protect you from that. I mean even kids watching innocent YouTube videos sometimes other stuff where the little thumbnail of other videos suggested can be something very suggestive or even somewhat explicit.

And they don't understand, likely they don't even understand what that is. And they can click on it not knowing. The other thing I was gonna say is I would even before mid elementary school, that's when you would want to actually have these exchanges where you can talk to them, they can ask questions to understand really what it is to be aware of and to definitely avoid. But I think that we need to have protection like filtering systems on every device from the get go. I would say there's something called Disney Circle which can protect your wifi. So even if a kid comes in your house, if they get on your wifi, which is I would encourage, if you're worried about this, just say cell phones over here in a basket. When you're in my house, go play and actually talk to each other. Like that's what I would do personally. But I think that like if, if they have their phone, I get it, like kids may have phones before your kids do. And it's for a lot of reasons. I would say where I see this the most is when the child has parents where they're who are divorced and where they go to different homes. It's a way for their parents to stay in touch with them. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I get, I get the need for that. Other times it's that the parents feel safer because they have the tracking device on their phone. Like Life360, which we love. And so there's various reasons. And even if you have different kind of standards when it comes to technology, if you want to protect it, Disney Circle protects your WI fi. So basically you set limits on what websites people in your home on your WI fi can get to for those who live in your home. And you can recognize those different devices in your home. You know, you can set age appropriate limits. And then like for example, I know we had this years ago and we would set limits on our younger kids, you know, for. I think they had something like, you know, I think it's like G. PG all those different things. It's probably improved since we even had it.

Yeah, the tools just in general, I mean, like the main point of all this is there are great tools out there.

There are.

And they're constantly evolving and growing too. Like the software that We've mentioned Custodio, Covenant Eyes, Ever Accountable Bark. There's just a ton out there. And, you know, find one that works for you, find one that you feel good about. The parental controls are out there.

They are. And I want to say this, you, you know, establishing it sometimes can feel overwhelming. Dave and I are not necessarily. I mean, I know a lot of what we do is online, is on social media. You'd think we're techies, okay, we want to be. We want to be.

Yeah. But we're not.

We do it trial and error, and then we work with amazing people who know what they're doing. Like Taiwan, our producer, like Josh back in the studio. I mean, like, we have people around us who do know and are really good with, and we are not. We figure it out. And so, like, I will be honest with you, when we first knew that we needed to get filtering software on everything, every single device we have, I mean, I felt a little. It was daunting because I'm like, oh, gosh, is this going to be a learning curve? It's going to be hard to set up. But I will tell you, I have seen, you know, we've used Covenant Eyes, we've used Custodio, we've used Bark briefly. All of them, I feel like, are made for people like us who don't know a lot about technology. They're user friendly, very user friendly. And you would say, well, the kids, you know, again, you said they're digital natives. Are they going to get around this technology? I would say, possibly. But they alert you if they try to get around it. And that's when you have consequences in place where you're like, you deactivated the VPN network so that Custodio can monitor your things. I'm taking your phone. Okay. I think we had that happen one time. He claims it wasn't on purpose. And I'm like, okay, we're going to have a consequence. But I will say that most of the time, you know, we get daily reports. Currently using Custodial, we get daily reports that say, here's not only anything bad that happened, but here's websites. You know, you can look at everything they're looking at. But also if they do go to a website that either is pornographic or they try to go to a website that's pornographic or shows weapons or shows, you know, you can set the limits. But, like, I know drug, you know, we don't want them looking at. I mean, obviously, like, drug websites or like, anything that could be a danger to them. It'll tell us what it is. It blocks it from the kid. Okay, it blocks it. But then it sends us an email saying, hey, be alerted. And it's just a good time to have a conversation. It's a great time to just have a conversation. And we've had some moments where there's been some searches where we're like, well, that was interesting. And we need to talk about that with them. And we don't try to make it a big deal because we want them to be able to come to us as a safe place where there might be consequences because there's natural consequences to our actions when we've set a standard, but that they're going to be in much less trouble when they're honest about it and come out with it and tell it and we can have a conversation. If they try to hide it, the consequences are going to be worse. They're going to lose more if they're not going to be honest about it. So I remember in middle school with our oldest, there was a search and we were talking to each other like, well, we probably need to have a talk with him. So we sat down and we were like, hey, did you search for anything?

Yeah, he was curious about the female anatomy, and we didn't try to make him feel weird. I'm like, man, that is a natural curiosity.

There's nothing wrong with.

God made you to be drawn to a woman. He's made you that way. And that's so that one day you'll have a wife and there'll be a perfect place for you to just adore her. But in the meantime, you got to protect your eyes. Because when you're just looking, just looking at a woman in a way that it's looking at her like an object, it's being disrespectful to her. And it's kind of training your mind to see people as objects instead of a soul, a person created in God's image. And just let these be conversation starters instead of. If you freak out and just try to shut it down by freaking out, then they're not going to feel safe coming to you when. When they get temptation.

And that's hard to do. Like, we own the fact that it is hard not to freak out sometimes. And I know the first time this happened as a woman and as one who, you know, we had to recover from you, you know, being in that pit and knowing the hurt that it causes and how we've always taught our boys to adore and respect women, and that includes their Bodies like to not ever look at them as objects. And, you know, of course, it's okay to think a woman's beautiful and to be attracted. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with that. She's not your object. Exactly. You can do with whatever you want to with your eyes, you know, and your mind. And so we talked openly about this, and it was crushing. Do you remember? I mean, I really had a hard time the first time this search came up in Custodial. Like, the filtering software is what I was supposed to do.

I had to talk you off the ledge.

You had to talk me off the ledge. And I'm so glad I had you, because I think that conversation would have gone differently. And so if you're married, watching this, raising kids lean into each other, if you're a single parent, I know we have a lot of single parents out there, have a trusted friend that you can talk to about this, and maybe both of you are on the same page about having this software. And call your friend before you have that conversation. We need people in our lives that we can bounce things off of and know that we're not alone. And maybe it's your family member. Like, maybe your. You know, if you're a single parent, call your mom, call your dad, and be like, listen, I need to talk through this. Cause I'm upset, you know? And I think that it's just really important not to shut down the conversation, but to keep it going.

So. Good. Well, guys, we end every episode same way. Dad joke from Dave and a fascinating fact from Ashley.

That's right, sweetie.

What do you got for us today?

Mine's uploading, so my Internet's being slow. Why don't you share your. All right.

Mine today is extra dumb, and which I always like, of course. What do you call a vehicle that can transform into a dog?

I don't know. What do you call a vehicle that can transform into a dog?

Car pet.

Oh, car pet.

That's one of the worst ones I've heard.

Wow. Wow. Do you have another one you want to share with us?

You want to try again?

I'm trying to find my husband. I can't get my Internet to work. I'm like, no.

Do you want to try again?

Let me. Let me. You just. You keep going with your dad joke because my Internet's not working, so I can see my fascinating fact.

Yeah, well, just a minute.

Hold on, hold on. Go ahead.

You know, did you hear that archaeologists have discovered that King Tut was actually a con man?

No, I didn't know that.

Yeah, he was running a pyramid scheme.

Really? That was a good one. I like it. I like it when you work history into your dad jokes because then I feel like they are less dumb.

They're always dumb.

Okay. All right, thank you all for your patience on my fascinating facts. So these are interesting. It says, and this is again from fact retriever.com in case you want to look at the long list. I don't share every single one of them. So go and look at this if you geek out on this stuff like me. It says, before World War I, parents typically dressed girls in blue and boys in pink because they viewed pink as the more masculine color and blue as more feminine.

Really?

Isn't that interesting?

That is fascinating.

I knew that and I wanted to share one more. And this is kind of sad, but also it just shows you how sometimes certain groups that think a certain way about parenting and have certain philosophies can take something to the extreme. And this, like, broke my heart. It said as late as the 1960s, some parents advised that their child, or were advised that their child by doctors, that their children needed a lobotomy.

Oh, my gosh.

And it said the notorious Dr. Walter Freeman conducted thousands of lobotomies and many of them were on children.

That's crazy.

And I don't know, it didn't go into more detail, but to me, I guess it's like if they're dealing with maybe some kind of mental issue that, you know, back then a lot of times they would think, well, we just need to take out the bad part and hope that they recover or whatever. But we know how that all ended. So anyway, that's just really interesting. So with that, I know that's kind of a heavy one, but with that, I think when I read these kind of facts, it just makes me remember, like, take everything like with a grain of salt, right?

Yeah. Experts aren't infallible.

Like, and get these so called experts are gonna make mistakes and let it be rooted in the word. Okay? You gotta be rooted in the word. And I know the word doesn't talk about lobotomies, but it does talk about a lot about how, how to raise kids and how to show love and, and even with. With mental health issues. So, like, let's not go to extremes and end up doing something we deeply regret.

So, so good.

Yeah.

Well, hey guys, thanks so much for tuning in. We appreciate it. Share this episode I promise you, like, this one is. It's something people need to hear. They might not want to hear it, but this is what people need to hear. We're just trying to help protect the next generation from, you know, from stumbling into stuff that's gonna. That's gonna hurt them. So thanks so much. We appreciate you. You can always reach us on Instagram at Dave and Ashley Willis. We love reading your messages and getting your suggestions and even your dad jokes and fascinating facts.

Please send them. I am. I'm excited to get some.

Yeah, we appreciate you guys. We'll see you next.

Sat.