Secrets and Shame | Live from the Minivan | Dave and Ashley Willis

Hey, guys. We're joining you live from the minivan on a quick Wednesday.

That's right. Midweek. Midweek getaway.

Little dinner date.

Sneak away when we can. We had a quick dinner with the kids, and then we just said, you know what? We're gonna sneak out for a little quick date.

Quick little mini date, and we're gonna.

Get in a minivan and we're gonna connect with our favorite Facebook friends. That's you guys. To talk about, actually, a cirrus. Serious ser.

You know Sirius.

I said, you know, cirrus cloud. Like the Sirius cloud.

Clouds all around us.

Oh, we also have nebulous clouds. And I can't remember the rest for my cumulus. Cumulus, that's right.

I think it's nimbus.

Nimbus.

You combined cumulus and nimbus.

I did. Well, you know, I'm a bit of an amateur meteorologist.

No, he's amazing.

You're amazing. So we're going to talk about kind of a serious topic tonight, which is when you have secrets in marriage, and often those secrets are tied to shame. I think part of why we keep secrets in marriage is because we're ashamed of that. That's why we don't share things. We don't fully trust our spouse with that information. We have this thing we want to get off our chest from our past or maybe even our present, but we don't know how to talk about it. And so we get a lot of messages because sometimes people are more comfortable kind of confessing to us through the anonymity of social media on messages here on Facebook or on Instagram, or you can find us Dave and Ashley Willis, by the way. We would love to connect with you on Instagram and. And you'll share with us in such vivid detail whatever you're going through. And we so appreciate that. But oftentimes people who even who write us haven't shared those same things with their spouse. Yeah. And so we're going to talk about what to do with those secrets in marriage. And, you know, we host the Naked Marriage podcast. We have. You know, the. The word naked is in a lot of our stuff, and it's not just because a marriage needs physical nakedness, but really that nakedness is a picture of total transparency and honesty. And if a marriage is going to thrive, it has to have those things. And so how do we get naked? How do we get those secrets out and really have a naked marriage?

Yeah. You know, I feel like when you know your spouse well and your spouse knows you well, And a lot of times you can know they're not telling you something, but you don't know what it is. And you don't know if it's some big thing that is going to affect you. But it's like you want to know, and it's like it's on the tip of their tongue, but they're not telling you. And so what I would say, I mean, the best way, if you feel like your spouse, like there's something there and there's like this little bit of a wall that's between you, I would start with maybe just saying, like, listen, I love you and I'm committed to you, and I want to know you in every way, and I want to know all the things, because we are imperfect people, you know, I want to know the good, the bad, and the ugly, because that's how we're really, truly going to be one. And that's how we're going to have a naked marriage. That's how we're going to be connected and close and just say, I feel like there's something you're not telling me. And I, you know, maybe if there's something you haven't told your spouse, maybe you're the one to go first. You know, I feel like that takes away some intimidation for your spouse. I mean, don't put them on the spot, but just say, like, I. I want you to know I'm a safe place. Like, I'm a safe place. This is a place of no judgment. But I just want. I want you to feel like you can tell me anything because you truly can. I love you no matter what. And then be ready for whatever it is they want to tell you.

Yeah.

And it may be something that's hard to hear.

It might be.

Yeah.

And it could be some, you know, some of the most common secrets that you know that we hear that people haven't confessed to one another. It often has to do with their sexual past in terms of choices they made that maybe they wish they hadn't made. But often it is things that were inflicted on them outside of their control. And I'm talking specifically about sexual abuse, where things happen to you. And through no fault of your own, you were a victim of sexual abuse. And you've never confessed that to your spouse because you're carrying the certain amount of shame with it, though there's no reason for that shame. You did nothing wrong here. But all the time we, you know, we hear from spouses, both men and women, who feel like, I can't confess this, because, you know, I feel ashamed about this. And it's. But whatever it is that you're feeling, whether it has something to do with sex or it could be something completely different. I mean, it can be something you're facing right now at, you know, at work that's totally occupying your mind. And, and I think especially for we men, we try to compartmentalize and we're like, I don't want to burden my wife with something I'm dealing with at work, even though it's on my mind all the time, because I want to keep my home life. Home and work. Life, work. But your spouse has a right and a need to be connected to every part of your world. And it doesn't mean you have to spend eight hours outlining your eight hour work day, but it does mean that if something is occupying your mind and heart when you're not in the office, that you need to let them know what's going on and you need to invite them in to. To share that burden with you, to be an advisor, to speak some truth to it, and just to share that burden together. Because the way that God designed marriage, it's for everything that you face is something that you face together.

It is. And really, that's really the best way to face it is together. Because if you don't share it with your spouse and sorry, we're like sitting in a random parking lot like we always do, and there's people passing by, but if you don't share it with your spouse, not only are you kind of keeping them out of a part of your life, but also you. You're keeping yourself from maybe some helpful advice. You know, there's been times, and we've shared this many times here, you know, with you guys on Facebook. There's been times where I've held things in, and then I do share it with Dave and I'm like, so glad I did because he's so wise and he has a completely different perspective on things than I do. And I love that because it really makes me think differently. And a lot of times when we're dealing with something that is hard, you know, we've run it through our mind time and time again, and then all of a sudden we actually do share it with our spouse and. And they help us see it in a new way and we're like, oh, well, that really helped me. Thank you.

And she's done that for me so many times. She's really the smart one in the relationship. Quick shout out, though. Shirley is watching live From South Africa. And it's 1am goodness. 1am in South Africa.

She said, wow, Shirley, thank you for watching. She's a night owl like me.

But I just want to say, like, you know, real quick, not to get too far off course, but this community is global.

I love that, right?

Both the Naked Marriage podcast, where we kind of see the analytics of where people are listening and watching, and here on Facebook, it's all over the world. But South Africa in particular, outside the United States, is one of the countries with kind of the largest community that's connected here to our Facebook marriage page and also to the Naked Marriage podcast. And so just a quick shout out to Shirley in South Africa and people all over the world, wherever you might be listening.

And thank you, Odette, for saying you like my shirt. Thank you so much.

Doesn't she look beautiful?

My mom gave this to me and you guys. My mom. Okay, let me just say this really quick, please. She is like a professional Goodwill shopper, right?

If you're not from the United States.

Goodwill is a thrift shop, right?

It's where people donate stuff and then you buy it cheap.

And I love it, you guys. I love Goodwill, Salvation army, any kind of thrift shop that is tied to a charity. And my mom literally could be a professional Goodwill shopper because she finds you.

Could be a pro, too. You were there today.

I do love it. I was there at two Goodwill locations today looking for outdoor furniture because I like to redo stuff and. And reuse, reduce, recycle, all those things. I love to do it.

And I love this headband thing you're. You're rocking, too.

Which is from Chinatown in New York, which I got many years ago, because sadly, Covid haven't been able to go to New York in a long time. But I'm coming back as soon as it's open because I love it and I love a good deal. But I digress. So back to serious nature of. Of what we are talking about today. So some of you have some questions here, and I want to make sure we get to that. Oh, yes, a lot of. A lot of Goodwill people who. Who love. Who appreciate thrift shops and Goodwill. So we. We are. We're each other.

Norway. Somebody from Norway. We've got.

Let me see this here.

Harry, Georgia.

Hold on just a second. Let me read this. Let's see. Okay, so Amber wrote, and she says spouse. And I start conversation with, are you looking for solutions or sympathy? That way we don't offer advice where none is required or vice versa. That is so wise. Because sometimes we're just looking for sympathy, right?

Yeah.

We just want to put it out there.

That's a wise question.

That is a wise question.

Do you need me to offer a solution or do you want me to listen and give you a hug?

Because sometimes that's what we need.

Sometimes that's it, right?

Yes, yes, yes.

I think especially for we as husbands, you know, we tend to get in fix it mode, and our wife's sharing something with us, and we're like, okay, I'm gonna fix it. Listen, guys, your wife's already smarter than you. She's already thought of the solutions you're putting out there. She doesn't need your solutions. She needs you to just say, man, I'm here for you. I'm so sorry you're going through that. What can I do to help and be there for her? Be a listening ear. And that's gonna help you guys stay so, so connected. She's wanting to engage with you. She's wanting to know that you're with her in it and vice versa. You know, this goes both ways. I don't mean to offer, like, broad generalizations.

Yeah, yeah. Now, we've talked to couples before where the wife was more like the solutions driven kind of person, but her husband was like, I just want to vent. Like, I just. Not in like an unhealthy way. I mean, venting can never be disrespectful, but, like, just telling you what's going on. And it took her a while to come around and, like, understand, okay, he just needs to bring me into what's going on. Not looking for a solution, because sometimes there's just not one. Like, I mean, let's be honest. Like, not every issue has necessarily has an issue. Like, sometimes. And my. My. My sweet sister in law Aaron, who isn't on social media and neither is his brother Drew, which I think awesome for them, right? Like, they're just like, we're above it.

Just living their life.

I'm like, I want to know what's going on, people.

I've got two brothers. Neither of my brothers are on.

They're just not social media, which is totally their. Their, hey, their prerogative. But my. My sister in law Aaron hates this statement, but I. And I say it a lot when I'm around her. And we tease each other about it, but there's a lot of truth to this. So sometimes it truly is what it is. And this guy is watching us and smiling and laughing.

Lol. I know, because we're Talking to the phone. Yeah. Because you don't understand how ridiculous this.

Looks, you middle aged weirdos.

Yeah. We are just two random people in a parking lot with people walking by. Yeah.

In Georgia.

Not talking to each other, but talking to our dashboard. This is how it looks to the people who are walking by. But we are willing to look foolish for you guys because we care about your marriage and we love you guys.

So back to it is what it is sometimes. It is what it is, sweetie.

Right?

Yeah, it really is.

It is what it is.

Yes, but you have.

So coming back again, trying to land the plane on the theme of secrets and shame in marriage, number one, shame is not from God. Shame is from. We have a very real enemy and shame is his game. God brings conviction. Sometimes the Holy Spirit convicts, which means when you know you're touching a hot stove, that pain you feel is there for your protection. To say, get your hand off that hot stove. It's hurting you. That's what conviction does on a soul level. What you're doing, what you're holding back is actually hurting you. And so that discomfort you're feeling not meant to shame you. It's meant to move you toward action so that you can get to a place of healing. Because Jesus came to give a full and abundant life. It says in John, chapter 10, verse 10, he wants you to have a full life. And if you're living in secrecy, if you're living in shame, you're not living a full life.

That's right.

And so, you know, that's a much kind of deeper sermon than we can dive into on a random minivan video. But God wants you to live in freedom. But to really embrace that freedom, you've got to be willing to share what it is that you're going through. And if you're married, you know, the spouse is the first human being you need to confess that to. You know, this is the relationship where there can be no secrets. This is the relationship where everything is discussed and everything is confessed. And it's the safest place. Like Ashley said earlier, it's the safest place on earth for both of you. And you've got to be willing to just live that way. So, yeah, be willing to do that.

I've been trying to track some of your questions here. A lot of you are just responding and you're so sweet about just kind of sharing what's going on with you and where you're from.

Ella, from Bernie, Texas. We've been to Bernie, Texas, actually.

It was awesome, you guys.

We took Outside of San Antonio.

Yes.

Stayed on a little farm experience, which was so cool. They had some, like, goats and horses, and we took our kids play.

We took our chiweenie chichi, too. And the donkeys thought she was. They couldn't believe that.

They just stared at her like, I'm not sure whether to eat this thing or be scared of it, but yeah.

And she stared right back. She was, like, super bold. All right, so yes, we've been talking.

Those of you watching from Hawaii, man.

Oh, Hawaii. Never been there, but would love to go there. All right, so some of you, I want to address this really quick, and then we're going to have to run and get back to the kids. But I. We hear from a lot of you who are like, yes, I agree. I don't want to have secrets in marriage. I want a naked marriage. I want to have that kind of level of connection and trust. But whenever I talk to my spouse and I say, hey, here's what's going on with me. What's going on with you? My spouse comes back and says, I don't really have anything to say.

Yeah. They shut it down.

Shut it down. And. And I hear this mainly from women, but I also hear this from men.

Yeah.

Like, we have men right now. And. And they're like, what do I do with that? I mean, that. They're like, what do I do? I'm putting my heart out there. And my spouse, you know, for whatever reason, maybe they really don't have anything to say. And maybe they really don't. They're like, I don't have any secrets. I don't know what else to say, but it comes off very cold, you know, to this.

Yeah.

To the people who.

When they're wanting to connect.

Right.

And when they say, like, hey, are you okay? What's going on? Like, they're looking for an opportunity to connect with you on a deeper level. And if you just shut it down, like, no, I'm good. I'm just fine. Nothing.

I have nothing.

Then really, what they take that as is, like, I don't want to let you in to what I'm actually going through. Even if there really is nothing going on in your mind. Mind.

And there really might be nothing. I mean, so maybe the person watching this is like, well, I truly have nothing to say. I guess a kinder way. There's a kinder way to say that and to say, listen, thank you so much for trusting me.

Yeah.

With this.

And wanting to connect with you and.

Wanting to connect with me. I just Want you to know that right now there's nothing new that I need to tell you. But I. I will absolutely tell you when there is something new. And I. I want us. I'm so glad you came to me.

Yeah.

Like, when you. When you can say it that way and affirm that desire for connection, that desire for trust and for vulnerability, that's the main thing. And I think you know a lot sometimes. I mean, some of you may be like, let's. Semantics. Or that's tone. Yeah, but tone and semantics matter.

It does.

Like, I mean, but the words we say and the way we say them, it matters.

But also be honest because.

Yeah.

You know, when you're like, what's. What are you thinking about? Ah, nothing. I mean, we're always. Something is rattling around up there and be willing to talk about it and be willing to go to those awkward, vulnerable places, you know, Be willing to say, like, you know, man, I'm worried about our finances, or I'm thinking about our kids and I'm feeling like a failure. And I don't want to make the same mistakes I feel like my parents made. And I feel like I'm falling into some of those same traps. Or, you know what? I want our sex life to be better, but frankly, I'm insecure about my own body, and I don't know how to deal with that. I don't know how to feel sexy. And so I end up kind of pushing you away. And it's not you. It's this inadequacy that I feel, or I'm feeling with shame because of these images in my mind from my own past experiences. And I don't know how to process that in a healthy way. And that's vulnerable stuff.

Just be real.

That's real life, guys. And if you want your marriage to thrive, that is the stuff that you gotta be willing to talk about.

And it's scary. Like, some of you watching this right now, I know you're like, dang. I mean, I'd love to share that, but that's scary. But what you'll find is when you kind of. Maybe you're not talking in this way yet, but when you lead, it kind of gives license. When you're putting yourself out there, I mean, it's scary. I know it's vulnerability. It's scary. But it gives your spouse license to also be real. And when you respond in a way where you take it, I mean, sometimes it is hard stuff to hear, and. And you don't judge, and you're just like, okay. You know, I am so glad you're trusting me with this information. And if it's something where it's a problem, instead of freaking out, we can say we need to get help for this. But I'm going to be by your side. I'm going to help you get help. It's amazing what God will do with connecting you. Like, I mean, because. I mean, some of our hardest moments have been moments of vulnerability, where we've had to share things that are hard, that we're going through, where we do need healing. But what I've seen God do in our life is he brings us closer together. And it's awkward at first, and it's hard, and it doesn't mean it's easy to say these things or even hear these things. But I do think that there's something really unique and special that God does. And again, there's people walking by randomly as we're talking to our phone. They're right next to us. So sorry about the awkwardness. We're there.

Yeah, that's where we are.

But. But what we found in our own experience and with the many couples we work with is it's almost like he, like, just draws your hearts closer to him and closer to each other, and so it's not wasted. You know, it's. It's like you can talk about these hard things and you can deal with these hard things, but. But you can grow through that, you know, in a really special way. And so I just. I really. I think that it's. It's just important to hear that that vulnerability is scary, but it's worth it.

Yeah, vulnerability, that's good. It's scary, but it's worth it.

Yes, that's.

That is a good line. And that's not just a line, but that's the truth. And that's what a naked marriage is all about. So, guys, to kind of wrap this up, we could keep talking all night on these topics, but we have a ton of resources already out there to help you engage on these very topics. The first is our podcast. It's called the Naked Marriage Podcast. You can watch it on YouTube by just searching. Naked Marriage Podcast. Yes. And subscribe to that Dave and Ashley Willis channel. You can write us on Instagram, Ave and Ashley Willis. You can check out our book, Naked and Healthy or Naked Marriage. So there's a ton of resources. A website to send you to where kind of our whole ministry lives. We're part of the team at XO Marriage. Go to the letter Xomarriage. Dot com, and you can find live events, free videos, free blogs, all kinds of stuff. And thank you guys so much for just the community here. You guys pray for each other, you pray for us, you ask great questions, you cheer each other on, and we're just honored to be on this journey with you. We never want to come to you as the expert. We just want to come to you as people, as servants who are coming alongside you, trying to serve you guys. And as God has kind of trusted us with this platform and. And it really is a joy and it's a privilege. So, yeah, thank you.

Thank you, guys. We hope you all have a great night. Until next time.

Bye.

Bye.