Sex & The Church | Live From The Minivan | Dave and Ashley Willis

Hey, guys. We are joining you live from a Wednesday, is what we like to call it when we go out on a date on a Wednesday. On a rainy Wednesday in Georgia. So if you hear the trickle of rain.

That's right.

That's what's happening right now.

It's rain on the windshield. So, yes, you know, it's raining. So I apologize for the ambient noise, though. It is so restful.

We actually have many days.

I might actually fall asleep during this one because it's just so peaceful. It's like, I just want to take a nap.

I know. Tell us where you're watching from. We're actually going to talk about something that might rustle some feathers or maybe give you some. I don't know. I think we all have reactions to this. If we were raised in the church in any capacity, and even if we weren't, you know, I think that we all kind of have a feeling about this, but we're going to talk about sex in the church, and I couldn't include this because you wouldn't see it if I included this. But it. Marriage is what I would also put.

Yes.

In this. Because we're affected by this.

Yes. And this is a heated topic. You know, it's a loaded, loaded topic. Heavy, like Ashley said, for those of us who were raised in the church and kind of learned about sex in. In, you know, youth group or in what's sometimes called purity culture. And I think there's good intentions behind that, trying to keep people away from, like, misusing the gift of sex. And I mean, in the ministry we do and on our Naked Marriage podcast, you know, we talk all about, you know, these kinds of things of, like, God's plan for sex. But I think that there, in some churches and in some Christian homes, there were messages related to sex that we raised with. For those of us who were raised in that kind of setting, that actually did as much harm as good. You know, there might have been good intentions of, like, we're trying to keep you from having a lot of sexual baggage, from making a lot of mistakes. And we want you to know that God's plan for your life and your sex life is for it to be awesome within marriage, not outside of marriage. But that message got so distorted sometimes by adding things to the Bible that aren't actually in the Bible.

What did you say yesterday? We were talking about this. You called it extra biblical.

Extra biblical. Right. So you're adding things to the Bible. There are extra rules, and that's really dangerous, in fact, not to make This a Bible lesson. Totally. But, you know, when Jesus was doing his ministry on planet Earth here as a human being 2000 years ago, the people he butted heads with the most were the people that were adding rules to the Bible. It was a group called the Pharisees. They were the strictest religious sect, and they were so trying to follow every letter of the law. They were adding stuff to the Bible. And Jesus is like, you guys are missing the whole point. And, you know, you can read the gospels in the Bible, which are the four books of the Bible that tell.

The story of Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

That's exactly right. But I think 2,000 years later, you know, kind of some of that Pharisee culture, that extra biblical culture, is related specifically to how Christians are taught about sex. And so we're going to talk about that one little quick random announcement before we kind of dive too deep in the conversation. We've. We're putting a lot of this stuff on YouTube now, and we have a fairly new YouTube channel that is still just kind of in its infancy, but we would love for you guys to.

Fresh content on there you don't see on Facebook, subscribe.

Look up Dave and Ashley Willis on YouTube or look up the Naked Marriage podcast with Dave and Ashley Willis on YouTube. We put all our podcast episodes on there, too. And just hit subscribe. Do it right now while you got your phone out. Yeah, and it's free. It's.

We have fun with. With a lot of channel. Like there's some of just our daily life. And just you might be like, hey, we do that too. Or give us ideas. I mean, you know, it's just a lot of just random stuff on there. And so we, we really thought a.

Lot of stuff that can help and encourage you in your marriage, too.

So to make you laugh, but also to make you think. We do a lot of different teaching videos on there that we haven't necessarily shared on Facebook. And so it's a really. It's a. It's a nice new, you know, really cool other way to connect and learn how to have stronger marriages. And so, so check that out. We're excited about it.

YouTube.

Yes.

So sex in the church.

Sex in the church. Yes. And so we want to hear your thoughts on this. And I, you know, what's the YouTube, right? I know if you just Google YouTube, you'll find it or you can get the app. Right. Okay. So when it comes to the church, you know, I. We are treading lightly on this because. I know. And we were Talking about this before we actually, you know, got on here with you guys. I don't want to make the church or the people in the purity culture, whatever that is, the evangelicals, whatever we want to call it, to feel terrible. I feel like that's the world we.

We came from and, and in many ways we're still.

And there were good things I learned from them.

I'm a Christian. Like, we, you know, we're, we're very much in church world. Like, I want the church to thrive, but, you know, so where this is.

There were some things that were unhealthy.

Yes, yes, yes.

And I feel like there's been so much in the media lately with just different articles that have come out and, and it just is really shedding this light here recently on some of the, the darker side of this and some of the, the ramifications of, for lack of a better word, purity culture. And you know, being pure before marriage is a good thing. So when I say that, and then when I first heard that, I was like, wait a minute, I mean, we want that, like that's, that's the goal, right, is to save ourselves for the, the one that God has called us to marry. And so I'm not knocking that at all when I say this, but I mean, the way in which it was presented was, was often very unhealthy and very shame filled and very fear driven. And God is not a God of fear and shame. And so, you know, one of the things that we feel is part of God's calling on our life is just to help kind of ourselves and others and people who are, who are married to know that sex is a good thing, that it was God's idea, that it was made for marriage, and that it is beautiful and it is a way for a husband and wife to connect like no other. It's also a way to hopefully produce children. And it's a way to also just keep a husband and wife connected. But what we found in the work that we do is that there's so much in the world, both inside the church and outside the church, that has really wrecked us when it comes to sex. And so many of us, whether we had sexual experiences before marriage or not, have this baggage. And so today, you know, tonight we want to talk about specifically when it comes to the church and sex. I think some of us have been wounded and I don't think it was intentional necessarily. I mean, if there's been some kind of sexual abuse, clearly that's a completely other topic. And we have Whole podcasts on that and we have videos on that. And I'd like to talk more about that. It needs to be talked about more openly so that no one feels like they need to hide what they've been through because it's terrible, you know, and so definitely bring that in the open. Get, get counseling, get help. But tonight we're talking more about if you've been kind of taught these things about sex that are filled with shame and that are filled with fear.

Fear.

And you're married now and sex is supposed to be this thing you enjoy, but yet you have all these hang ups about it. That's what we're talking about tonight.

And I, and I do think a lot, just from the people you guys write us. And I'm so thankful that on the Naked Marriage podcast and here on this Facebook page and on Instagram @DavidAshley Willis, you guys write us, you know, these heartfelt messages about what you're going through in your marriage. And a lot of the messages we receive are from people that, that have been, you know, wounded and have this, this kind of baggage as it relates to the way they were taught about sex.

Yeah.

Being kind of this, like negative, you know, sex is, you know, it's that sturdy. We don't do that. I mean, you can do it in marriage, but really sex is like this dirty thing. And, and yeah. And that's the way some people were taught about it.

Or on the flip side of that, I just want to say this real quick. On the flip side, it's that, well, if I do all the right things, if I keep myself chaste, if I don't have sex, if I don't even kiss somebody before I get mar. God's gonna honor me in such a way that sex is gonna be the easiest, most amazing, most mind blowing thing ever. And then you get married, it's gonna.

Be a constant orgasm.

Exactly. But those are those little things we believe that we don't even know we're believing. Like, if I only follow these things that God has told me, my sex life is gonna be amazing with no issues, with nothing. And then you get there and we get a lot of messages like this. You get married, you did all the right things, and all of a sudden it's like, sex is hard. Like it's, it's.

You and your spouse are on different pages, you've got different expectations. Maybe you each have different kinds of baggage.

Exactly, exactly.

And, and maybe there were some habits.

That weren't revealed until you were married. Like pornography. We've talked a lot about that or other things. Maybe there was sexual abuse that was never shared. You never even knew your spouse went through that, or you've never shared that with your spouse. And then all of a sudden you're dealing with that and you're like, God, I did all these things, like, what's the deal here? You know, why, why is this so hard?

We had a deal. It's almost like we made a deal with God, you know, like, like I, I, I, I believe that if I did xyz, then all of a sudden, like, you know, I would not have any of these issues in my marriage. And now here I am married, and my sex life isn't very good.

Yeah, you're like, it's not. I'm not having sex as much as I would like. Or maybe you're on the other side and you're like, my spouse wants it all the time. And I just thought it'd be something I would enjoy every now and then. And now I feel like it's this duty dutiful thing I have to do. And so, you know, why we're saying all these things is you're coming from a lot of different angles. And I feel like it's just important that we realize that we come to terms kind of with our own unspoken expectations, because we all have these little things that we expect that we don't even know we're expecting until we're there, until we're in marriage. And we really kind of take a moment and really ask God and the Holy Spirit to reveal it to us because we need to be, we need to kind of have that, that gut check, so to speak of, like, well, what is it? Why am I so, like, why, when I, when I, you know, the word sex is mentioned, or when my spouse comes to me and says they'd like to have sex or is making the moves on me or whatever, I feel negative about this and really ask the Holy Spirit, like, what is it? Like, why am I feeling so negatively towards sex? And allow, allow him to reveal to you what it is. And maybe it is these, these preconceived notions you had, or like this, this shame that you attach to sex that you didn't even know you had subconsciously attached to sex and really kind of bring that into the open and talk to each other about that. Talk to your spouse about that. Definitely talk to the Lord about it and really peel back those layers and be willing to be vulnerable enough to have a naked marriage like we talk about all the time on Here and on our podcast and just be real about it, because it takes that kind of level of intimacy and vulnerability to really have the kind of sex life that God wants us to have. We have to be honest with each other. We've gone through this. Absolutely. Right? I mean, we.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, we've been married almost 20 years and we've.

We've had.

I had to really work through a lot of my. My kind of. I don't know, a lot of it was kind of these. These unspoken things. I expected. I expected to be a sex goddess, like, instantly. And then when I wasn't and I had all these mixture of emotions, I felt really guilty. And then I also felt kind of like confused. And, you know, I had to work through that because I saved myself for marriage. But then I'm like, well, wait a minute, God. Like, you mean, I don't know how to be good at it right away. I don't know how to feel all the things right away. You know, I mean, I'm just being gut level honest with you all. So I really had to deal, you know, to work through that and to be honest with Dave about it.

Yeah. And every person, every came into marriage a virgin. You have sexual baggage just from, you know, the mindsets, from the expectations, from an actual, you know, body image issues, from, you know, just a ton of different things. And you've got to be able to talk about those things in a safe and healthy way. And oftentimes, especially, you know, most churches, maybe some church, maybe your church was different. I hope it was. But a lot of. A lot of churches, they mean well. They mean well. But the way they've taught about sex in the past, or their lack of teaching about sex in the past probably is more accurate. Their lack of teaching to set people up for just a lot of confusion and maybe shame when they run into issues and they feel like, I don't know how to talk about this in a healthy way. And so a lot of what we do on the Naked Marriage podcast and through our ministry, the team we're part of at exomarriage is just helping people to have these conversations in a healthy way. And everybody, all of a sudden, they realize, my gosh, I'm not the only one, and there are others. And this is a safe place for me to unpack this stuff and to learn what the Bible actually says. And it's so freeing. And everything Jesus came to give us is to bring freedom. You know that. And it includes your sex life.

It does.

I mean, it really does he? God created sex. What a gift. Thank you, Lord. Yeah. And so if you want to talk to somebody, we have trained coaches at Exo Marriage. You can find them at X, the letter X letter O. Xomarriage.com help that are this trained team of amazing people. They can meet with you via Skype or Zoom or even in person, you know, in the. In the Dallas, Texas area. But, you know, they'll meet with you and talk with you and help you through that. Talk with a counselor in your area, if you like. Look, you know, check out our podcast or the many resources. Many of them are free@exomarriage.com and just to continue to look for ways to connect with your spouse and work through these things.

You know, we actually did a podcast episode recently with Mental Health. I can't remember the actual. It may be.

It might Toxic thoughts.

Or was it toxic thoughts? Trying to think. It was with Cassie Reed, Dr. Cassie Reed, and she actually works at the King's University in the Dallas area. And one thing that she has a passion for are what she likes to refer to as, like, church wounds. And I think sometimes our church wounds are the very thing that they were trying to help us with and protect us from, but it has to do with sex. You know, we have these wounds that we didn't even really know were there until we maybe got married, until we really kind of took a moment and really evaluated how we think and feel about sex. And. And so I love that there's people out there like Cassie and you can look her up. Dr. Cassie Reed, again, you can go to the episode about mental health. And I. I can't remember if it's toxic, toxic thoughts or not. It might be.

Just look up the Naked Marriage podcast and it'll be one of the most recent episodes.

It will be. It's more recent, but she actually has a whole ministry about that we share about that. It should even be in the show notes there. But I just think that it's important that we realize that because, you know, guys, I mean, one thing to realize, Dave's been a pastor for many years. Pastors are people, and they're navigating this life just like all of us are. And sometimes they can teach things that later on they come back to it and they're like, wait a minute. That was more filled with shame and fear. And I really wasn't talking about God's grace and freedom in that, and I wasn't talking about his forgiveness. And I forgot, you know, and they come back to it later. And they're like, wait a minute, Really, I need to change my teaching. Because they're people and we're all going through different seasons. And so I think one thing we need to remember is to have grace, but to also come to terms with maybe some of those wounds we have and to get healing. And we talk about all the time counseling, like Dave just mentioned, with our marriage coaches, but also we partner with a ministry called Get Faithful. You can go to getfaithful.com nakedmarriage to get a personal counselor that you can meet with online. Because I think a lot of times we do have these hangups and we don't even know it. And it's important that we, that we get the healing that we need. But the bottom line here, you know, I talked about like the. When you wait and then you have these kind of expectations and they're not met and you kind of have this disillusionment when it comes to sex. But I think that for the majority of people, maybe they wanted to wait and they didn't. And then there's this shame they feel. You know, we actually interviewed a lady who's amazing who, who her whole ministry is for people who are dating. That episode's coming up. It's going to be really good. But she talked about this and how, you know, she was wanting to wait. She ended up having sex with her boyfriend and then felt such shame. And then she kind of took on this label of like, well, I've done it now, so this is just who I am. And the damage that it did to her and kind of that road that she kind of followed after that. And so that's the other side of this too. There's many sides, it's multifaceted. But we all have these different things that we do. And then we allow the enemy to attach shame or fear to it or just different hang ups. And you know what God wants to do is to say, like, listen, you're my child. Yes, we all make mistakes, but that's why he gave us Jesus. That's why he paid the price on the cross. And we can live in freedom and sex when it comes to marriage, especially, it's meant for marriage. We're supposed to enjoy it and we're supposed to feel free and not to have these hang ups with it. And you know, I don't say that to make you feel bad if you have hang ups. I've been there many times, you guys. I've had to work through my own stuff. But I say that to let you know that, you know, there is a path to freedom and there is a path to healing. And really what we have to do, our responsibility as adult people is to get help, is to be willing to admit that maybe we're not thinking about things in the healthiest way possible and that maybe that we need to feel more free when it comes to sex. And we need to be able to be really honest with ourselves, but also honest with our spouse. And so we're hoping that this video tonight will maybe give you some conversation starters to just talk about it with your spouse tonight.

I hope it does. Before we close, Kimberly just asked, why do you guys do all your videos in a vehicle? One, it's the only quiet place we have with four children is a vehicle. But two, if you go to our YouTube channel, look up Dave and Ashley Willis on YouTube or the Naked Marriage Podcast on YouTube. Not only will you see these kind of videos, but a lot of videos that aren't in a vehicle, including our studio where we record the Naked Marriage podcast.

Yes.

And other videos and some other videos that are just kind of like, out in the world. So.

Yes.

But here on Facebook, like, this is literally the only flight place we have is the van. Well, we normally. Yeah. But if you go to YouTube, you can see some variety. And so check us out there. Check out the resources that Ashley talked about here, and you can find a lot of those at the site xomarriage.com.

That'S right.

Which is the ministry that we're proud to be part of. And they have so many great resources.

But not only from us, but from amazing. So many other people with great perspective on marriage. And so definitely check it out. Yeah.

Well, we appreciate you guys live from the minivan and wherever you happen to be watching.

That's right.

And we will look forward to seeing you next time.

All right, Bye, guys.