Surviving a "Commuter Marriage" | The Naked Marriage Podcast | Dave and Ashley Willis

Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And we have a really interesting podcast for you today. I. I'm just so excited for you to hear it. We learned so much. We had a great conversation with some new friends of ours. But before we dive into today's episode, I want to share another review with you. And this review, it just, it really, it's. I'm, I'm very humbled by it. This person, their, their name for the review is God is within her, which.

I just thought is so cool.

And they entitled this review best podcast out there, gave us five stars. And it says, I know, it's so generous. It's so sweet. And the review says, over the past two years, I have been working on building my faith as well as doing a lot of self reflection on bettering myself. This podcast has been so helpful to help me work through struggles personally and within my relationship. It has also helped me with my sense of worth and holding a higher standard in my life. Thank you so much for providing this great content.

God bless. Isn't that just how you.

Thank you so much. And I just, I love your name that you have here for the review. God is within her and just. God bless you and thank you to all of you who have left reviews. If you have not left a review yet and you love this podcast, please do so. This is the best way that you can let others know about the podcast.

That's right. And we love to read them, whether it's on itunes or whether you watch these maybe and leave a review on YouTube. All of that is really meaningful.

Yes.

And again, like Ashley said, we're so excited about today's guests. And they are, they're. They're gonna talk about a commuter marriage. A commuter marriage, what is it? Means that your marriage, you're living in a different place temporarily. You could be from a lot of different scenarios, and you might tune off and say, well, that's not really me. You know, we live in the same house. I promise you there are going to be nuggets in this conversation that are going to help your marriage. It challenged us in terms of being more intentional. You're really going to enjoy this couple. So we've got Elaine and Abe Romero. And Elaine is a licensed marriage and family therapist who lives in California. Abe lives in Texas. They have a commuter marriage and travel back and forth between their homes because they both have kids from a previous marriage and they're investing in those kids lives until they're both fully grown. They help over 4 million Americans who are in a commuter marriage or long distance relationship of any kind. And they have a podcast called Love is in the Air. You're so going to enjoy this podcast. You're going to enjoy connecting with Elaine and Abe. So let's dive in. Well, like we said in the intro, we are so excited to have Abe and Elaine here on the Naked Marriage podcast today. And they've helped countless couples who are living in a commuter marriage, which can mean a lot of different things. And we're going to dive into what that means. I know where, you know, where we live. We're in a military community. A lot of our military friends have had different stints in their marriage where one is deployed, and they've had to work through that unique dynamic in marriage. Other times, you might be, you know, living in two different cities temporarily or on a semi permanent basis for, gosh, a variety of different reasons. And that can place so many unique challenges on the marriage. But Abe and Elaine, they've got the answers for us because they're living this out and they're making it work in their own marriage and helping other couples as well. So, guys, thank you so much for being here on the podcast.

Yes, welcome.

Oh, thank you.

Yes, thank you so much.

Perfect.

So great. You set it up great. I mean, you pretty much said everything.

All right, well, that's the episode. That's all we got, so. And right now, you two are in two different places right now. So tell us where you are.

Right, so I'm in California. So we have a home in California and in Texas. And Ava and I actually, we both had previous marriages, and so this is our second marriage and we. So we have children from previous marriages. So the reason we are in a commuter marriage is due to our children. We really, we kind of. We actually grew up together in California. California. Went to the same church and same church camps and reconnected later in life. And when we started dating, we were like, how are we going to do this? Both living two separate states and we didn't want to uproot our children. So we just kind of made the decision. At some point, especially when we jumped from dating to marriage, we made that decision that we would be the ones to make the sacrifice. And that's not to say that that's not right for other people, but it was right for us. And eventually Abe then will move here to California with me.

That's great.

Yes.

That's awesome.

I miss the beach.

Yes, I'm sure you do. Oh, my goodness. California is gorgeous. So what would you. You know, I know Dave talked a little bit about this, but you guys are the experts when it comes to this, and you're living this out. How would you define a communer marriage? Like, what would be the definition that you would tell somebody who's kind of still like. I'm not really even sure what they mean by that.

Right, right. So, Abe, is it okay if I go ahead and take.

Yeah, you're the expert in this.

Yes. Right. So commuter marriage, according to sociologists, it's any couple or marriage that has to deal with consistent distance. And so it can. There's a lot of different types and configurations. So just kind of like what you were saying, Dave. Sometimes it's couples like us that have two homes and they fly back and forth to see one another based on maybe a custody issue. Or it may be a couple that has one home, like firefight or military or pilots, where they are spending some time away from the home and sleeping somewhere else, or they're deployed or what have you, and firefighters are at the station. It can also be like truckers. It's often actors or musicians who go on the road. Even people that do podcasts, like you guys, or maybe you're traveling away from home to maybe stay somewhere else and do some work. And so there's all different types and configurations, like you said, Dave. Sometimes it's temporary, sometimes people choose it. We personally don't choose it, but we're making the best of it.

Yeah.

You know, I love that, and I think sometimes you do. You know, in a lot of these communal marriage situations, I would probably say the majority, it is where they're trying to make the best of a distance situation. You know, they're trying to remain close emotionally while having this physical distance. You know, we're gonna kind of dive into that a little bit more in this conversation. And I love. Like, I've been following you on Instagram, and you guys have such amazing tips for in this dynamic, and we're gonna share about that later. So don't worry, listeners, you definitely wanna tune in for that information. But I wanna ask you guys, like, how have you learned to be successful while living apart? You know, Cause even just travel, I mean, we often travel together, and there's been times where we've had to travel apart. But even just the travel alone can exhaust you. And so, like, how do you guys make the most of that?

Well, you know, it's. I'd love to say that we were perfect right out of the gate and we had all the answers. And that's one of the main reasons we started this podcast, was to help others kind of learn from our mistakes. And it's been a learning curve for sure. And we've found ways to be economical and smart in how we travel and how we connect. And that's a lot of what our podcast is about, like what you do when you are a part and how do you keep the connection, you know, vibrant and healthy and to ensure that you're keeping their relationship together and connected. But again, from the travel component and again, you know, all these communal marriages and long distance relationships come in all shapes and sizes. Right. But for us, it's setting the schedule and something that you're comfortable with.

Like always having a trip planned for us to see each other. Is that what you mean?

Well, yeah, and I think that's the finding out what that rhythm could be for the relationship. For us, it's every two to three weeks we try to visit. Either I go out there or she comes out here. And that's just what makes sense for the both of us.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think, you know, in addition to making sure. So we've really found to keep our sanity, we always have our necks. Visit on the books. Now we're learning in this long distance community, there are actually some marriages and couples that can't do that. Like the deployment couples can't do that, or like international couples right now due to the pandemic, there are some poor international couples who've had like over a year that they've even gotten to see each other. Even some of them with children and whatnot. It's been really sad. But for us, always having our next trip planned, another things that we do is many, many connections throughout the day, whether it's texts or little videos to each other. So we do a lot of connection throughout the day. And I think the other really big one that helped me a lot, just in kind of my mental health side of it, is that we invest a lot in our dates at a distance. So, yes, it's exciting to be with Abe. Like I'm flying there on Friday and we have some plans and it's always so exciting to be together. But then when we're apart, we have to be very intentional about having dates planned for the weekend, you know, Cause we're working during the week and everything. And he's investing in his children, I'm investing in mine. But then on the weekend we have a lot of fun creative online Dates. Some of them are kind of corny, but, you know, a lot of them. A lot of them are corny.

Corny is my love life.

We love corny.

So I'm all about it.

I want to hear about, like, give us an example of one of your corny online dates. You're an example.

Well, do you.

Well, okay. So I'm not just. We recently had a podcast on just creative data ideas. And we are exploring and we're doing these data ideas, and then we're kind of sharing them with our. Sorry, this morning. Sharing them with our listeners. And we did a jigsaw puzzle. There's an online jigsaw puzzle community. And that's the last thing I would be interested in ever.

For the sake of the marriage. You're like, I'm gonna give this a try.

Exactly. I will tough this out. And the flip side, the funny side about this is that Elaine loves jigsaw puzzles.

I love jigsaw puzzles. And it was fun to find this online one where you can actually go in and we could do one on our own or we could join a group. And so we had some with that, but I think so we have our go to ones. Like, we always watch something on Netflix together every weekend, just like any couple would. We literally press play at the same time and watch a show together. But then, don't you think our favorite one is we call it who plated it Best. So what we do is we pick a recipe, we buy all the ingredients, we cook together, and we wear, like, headphones. We don't usually see each other. And then at the end, we share, you know, like, we take a picture of the actual. Like, we played it and we share it with one another. And then we kind of have a competition on our social media. Like, all of our friends and family will, you know, vote on who plated it best. So I think that's one of our favorites.

That's really fun.

That's funny, too, because it never comes down to the dish and how the actual food looks. It's the plate and the drink next to it. So someone goes, I like what Abe's drinking better than what you're drinking for. I like Abe and not you. You're not even looking at the food.

You know, you.

That's a really creative idea.

Very clever.

Yeah, I love that.

And what I love about it is, honestly, you guys are removing so many excuses from couples, even who do live in the same town 24, 7. Because so many couples that live right together, they take it for granted. And they're never intentional about making meaningful time together with their date nights or with their. Or doing activities together or like, oh, you're really into jigsaw puzzles. Let's do a jigsaw puzzle together. You're really into. Let's find a fun way to do that together. And so you guys, by being so intentional, actually are finding more connection points with one another with thousands of physical miles between you, than a lot of couples who live under the same roof 24, 7.

Right.

That is one thing we found about our marriage is that we were like, as much as this is hard and we wouldn't choose this, and we're excited to close the distance someday. It is. There's some really positive parts to it, and. And this is one of them. We are much more creative than probably if we were, you know, if we were just at home, it might be like, hey, what do you want to do? You want to go get a dinner? You know what I mean? And so we're not as much in a rut. We do all kinds of different things. You have to, for your sanity. Yeah.

And one of the things that we found as well is that, you know, and a lot of the topics come up with the traditional marriage compared to a communal marriage, is that it's those little ways to connect all day.

Yes.

And to keep it fun, whether it's flirting or being silly or trying to shock one another with something crazy. And you have to do those things in a distance relationship. Right. But why not in a traditional marriage? Why not keep those things up? Because it's all fun.

Keeps it fresh.

It does.

Exactly.

Exactly.

No, I love that. And I think, just like what Dave was saying, I think in a commuter marriage, you are forced to kind of do that because there is that physical distance. But we all do need to be creative. And I think it's so easy to get on autopilot and just stop thinking creatively and stop thinking intentionally. And so I guess that is, you know, that's one way that that's kind of forced you to do that. And you guys are so intentional and so creative and doing things that you maybe wouldn't have otherwise done, but you're ending up having a great time and learning something new together. I just. I love that. But I do know that with this non traditional, you know, marriage, you guys have kind of used that traditional versus non traditional cause communor marriage. I mean, it definitely, I'm sure, has some challenges with it. What do you guys see in your own marriage, but also with other commuter marriages? With the. That you talk to.

Yeah, that's a good question. And there's a lot of. We're on a lot of forums, so we do see a lot of people asking questions and talking about it. Because we're kind of not only supporting people in communer marriages, we also support long distance relationships, which is interesting because we're kind of like the old people of the group. Because in long distance relationships it's a lot of even younger couples. But I think one of the. We did do an episode on the challenges and distance and one of the biggest ones is probably trust. It is. It's hard when you're not home with one another and touching base regularly and in our own personal lives. I came from a past marriage where there was some betrayal. So it was funny because I was kind of sharing with Abe. If you think about it, I used to think to myself, I'm probably the last person that should be in a commuter marriage because I have trust issues from the betrayal trauma as it is. However, then I realized just in my own kind of quiet time with God that maybe I'm the best person to be in this kind of marriage. Because God is really, I think, honing in on that trust muscle with me. And that. That becomes a very important component of our marriage is talking and dialoguing on a regular basis about the trust component and our expectations of when we're not together and how we act around the opposite sex. Or you know, like I'm up a couple hours later than he is. Cause he's in Texas and so he goes to bed and you know, if like a man were to text me or something, like we have an understanding of how I would handle that so that my husband feels respected, you know. And so I would say trust is a big component of it.

Right.

And boundaries even kind of. I know when you are apart, I can see where, you know that the trust issues could creep in because, you know, you just aren't physically with each other enough to kind of see even their eyes, you know, I think. Cause there's that you get to know your spouse to where you can see if something was funky that day. If you're like, okay, something's up, you know, we need to have a conversation. And that can be hard when there's that distance. And so do you. Do you guys have like, you know, some. Some ground rules in how you maintain your trust and how you are vulnerable and honest with each other?

Well, one of the things. Yeah. That you mentioned and that is kind of going through my head is is that I'm not a fan of. Of having a conflict or an argument by text.

Oh, yeah. Oh, me neither.

I know that there's a reason behind it. You know, we wanna protect our kids from some of their arguments and things like that. But I am so face to face and we need to be at least seeing each other's eyes and looking into each other's, you know, then you can see that my okay is not okay.

It's so true. Yes.

Okay.

You know, it really is. No, I understand. It's not like, oh, please, please. And a lot of times that gets.

Confused most of the text.

Yeah. I'm a big fan of video interface when we have conflict. And that's one of the challenges we have for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe you're gonna air that dirty laundry.

I love that.

So what I'm basically saying is that I'm right, we should not text.

No, but it is funny a lot of times when we're starting to get a little bit, you know, argumentative in text, he'll be like, he'll Google duo me. So we use Google duo, which is the face to face. And so I always know, I'm like, oh, I feel like the other thing is he often says, can I pray for us? And I'm like, oh, you had to bring Jesus in my argument.

There you go.

Yes, that's when we're connecting. Like, thanks, thank you, Jesus.

Yes, yes. We need Jesus in this room right now with both of us. Yes, yes. I think that's so true. And I think, I mean, even if you're not in a communer marriage, I think the whole text thing or social media or having that disagreement over social media and you know, you're so right. Like things can be lost in translation with how a text is perceived and what the intent was, it can be misconstrued. And so that face to face contact, you know, whether you're in person or like you said, you know, over FaceTime or Google do or whatever forum you're using, that is so important because then you can actually, you know, you can see really what they're meaning and they can explain themselves more. And so, yeah, I love that. That's a great boundary slash ground rule to have.

Yeah, yeah, I love that.

That's awesome. You know, one dynamic I'd be interested in is like, what is. And you mentioned like bringing other people kind of alongside you with like the plating competition and getting other people involved. But what does community look like for you two? Because I know that the primary focus, obviously, is like, well, I got to focus on my marriage from a distance, but in terms of friendships, both individually, community through church, community through friendship, and also as a couple trying to connect with other couples for just support and accountability. What does community look like in a communer marriage? Because I know that that's gotta be unique as well.

I don't think I've ever been asked that. That's a great question. You know, we do have. Now that's been a little bit weird right now in the pandemic social, but we do. We have certain friends and family. You know what's funny about California is we both have friends in California. A couple friends in California because he once lived here too. And so we have a lot more friends and family in California, but we have some in Texas as well that we to go out with. What's interesting about, like, even the church component, I'm very involved and I have a partner ministry. I'm a marriage and family therapist. So I'm in a partner ministry with my church, Rancho Community Church out here in California. And so Abe has really become kind of in that fold. And what's been great about the pandemic is now we kind of watch church together online when we're not together, and then when he's here, we go and actually attend services together. So that's been kind of fun.

Well, the other part of it too is, I think that's important is what we found, especially since starting our podcast, is that there's an online community that leans on each other all of the time. And so we are one small sliver in that support column in terms of providing that connection and that information and education that these people, they're starving for. But we've come across several different forums online that these people really rally around each other and are supporting one another. And with the pandemic, it's really become the online components, become a huge part of that.

It's been exciting because at the end of the day, we started the podcast thinking, I do have my. As a marriage and family therapist, I have the expertise component. But then we have fun with it. So we started it actually as a project in Covid. We were like, hey, let's start a podcast.

Why not?

We're in a pandemic. And then it just evolved where I remember saying to Abe one day, I needed this. Like, this was something I really had needed, because I know there are about three or four women that I know I can contact at any time and say, I just left Abe. I'm home. I'm having a hard day. And I just know an international couple that were just together, and she's just got back, and I was like, how are you doing? Like, call me, text me anytime this week, because I know she's in kind of a hard place. So it is. It's really become a whole new community for us just in the last few months.

So that's been exciting, you know, that is so good. And actually, would you find that in your relationship and also in other commuter marriage relationships that after being together, there is a bit of a crash or a letdown when you come. You know, when you go back and you're away from each other? And if so, how do you deal with that? Like, what is. How do you kind of bring yourself out of that? What are some things that help you?

Well, it's funny that you say that. Whenever I fly home, one thing I always do is I go on instacart and I get my groceries ahead of time. When I come home, I don't have to, like, go to the grocery store or anything. I get that delivered. So I just give myself that freedom not to have to go do that step. Because when I come home, I do usually find I'm a little down. I need to just kind of, I don't know, be centered. I even give myself the permission to even be a little bit mopey the next day.

Yes.

Yeah.

You're processing, you know, and then, you.

Know, because there are times you're like, God, why do I have to find I found the love of my life, and yet I have to live apart from him for a while because we have a few years to go. We're kind of waiting for his twins to be off to college. And so it's hard and it's tough. And so then after about a day of that, the other component that's super important is we have learned we have to invest in our lives apart from one another. So whether that's pouring into a project and work or investing in our children or I really make sure I have a lot more depth in my friendships now because I do spend a lot more time just with my girlfriends or even, like, hobbies and projects and things like that. So I know that's helpful for me. I don't know. What about you, Abe?

Well, there's a counterbalance there because there's the elation and the excitement when we see each other. So that's, like, so heightened, so fun. And then when you leave, of course, it's a big letdown. But as Elaine was saying, when you can focus on other areas of your. Your life. And for me, it's a little easier because my kids are younger. I have twin boys who are 14 years old, and they're kind of a lot to deal with, but. And Elaine's, you know, children are older and they're more kind of their own thing. And so for her, it's a little more challenging. And that's the kind of disparity we have, but.

Meaning I'm lonely more than he is. Right, right, right.

So it's balancing that, but it's. It kind of evens out because there's such a high and then, of course, such a low when. When we have to say goodbye.

And then there's the ramping up of when you see each other again. Right. Of the anticipation.

I'm sorry, one thing. Oh, no, no, no. But what you're saying is Abe and I interrupt each other all the time on our podcast. I always try.

Well, you more than me.

Well, that's true. And so that's why I'm always like, I gotta remember to be on better behavior when I'm on other people's podcasts. But it's so funny because there was a time when we were first starting this relationship and dating and marriage, and I was really down and depressed about it. And I remember telling Abe, I'm going to make a list. I'm going to make a list of all the awesome parts about being in a commuter marriage. And so I made that list. And we actually have a whole episode on that. Of that list. And one of the things on that list, Ashley, is the anticipation. So one of the perks. There are a lot of positive things about being in a relationship like this one. I get the bed to my. Myself after he leaves, which is super nice sometimes.

You would love that.

Those of us who appreciate space in the bed.

That's right. So I do like that. And then there's also just the anticipation. Like, so, for example, I'm flying out Friday, so today's Wednesday, So I do start to get that. Like, it's like Christmas. I can't wait. You're getting excited. You go to the airport, and it's just like, super fun. Yeah.

You know, and I love. I think what I hear both of you saying is just trying to find the good things, you know, because you don't wanna dwell on, you know, you can own the fact that some of these things are challenging and you guys are making the best of those challenges. But I think when you can focus on during this season of having to live at a distance on the things where, you know, what's causing you to grow in certain areas that maybe you wouldn't grow if you weren't having this commuter marriage dynamic right now and finding the good and the anticipation and the elation that you're describing. So I love that. And I know that listeners and those who are watching on YouTube, there's so much to gain from this. And even for those of you who are not in a commuter marriage, I think we can learn a lot from what Elaine and Gabe have shared today.

Oh, absolutely.

Abe.

I'm sorry I called you Gabe Ape. I know your name. And I think that there's so much in the intentionality and the creativity and just making the best of a non traditional situation and finding the good in it. I think we can all learn something from that.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

The intentionality, I think that's a key word. And you guys have really modeled that and continue to. And the way that you're working together as partners to help other couples, and you're doing that on a big scale. We've mentioned or they've mentioned their podcast several times, but not by name. It's called Love is in the Air. Yes. And so look that up.

Perfect name.

Oh, it's perfect.

I love it.

It's just. Yeah. So wherever you get your podcast, look up and subscribe to Love is in the Air. But how else can people contact you where people want more information? They need more Elaine and Abe in their life.

They do.

Where do they go?

They need. So we, yes, our podcast is Love is in the Air podcast on Instagram. Our support page, which is probably where we put the most up, is commuter marriagesupport. And on Facebook, I think we're just. Love Is in the Air. Correct.

Right, Right.

Yeah. So that's kind of our main support that we have right now. But yeah, we're just having a great time. We're kind of new at this whole podcast thing, but we're having a blast and just absolutely loving the community that's coming around us. Yeah.

And your naturals.

Yeah, I was gonna say, you're so great at what you do.

Thank you.

And I encourage people. Their Instagram page has so many great ideas. Like, they really put out some awesome date night ideas and just very creative and fun. And I just, I really, I love how creative you guys are with all of that. So I commend you on that and keep up the great work that you're doing.

Thank you. Well, and I feel the same way about what you guys do. And I'm always sharing. I know you probably can see I'm sharing things that you put on both my personal and my professional page. So I really appreciate that.

Oh, no, that means a lot.

You guys are awesome.

Well, man, you guys keep up the great work you're doing. And, yeah, thank you for all the encouragement you're giving to others, and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.

Yes.

Yes. Thank you for having us.

Thank you. Thank you.

Appreciate it.

My goodness, that was such a cool interview. They are just delightful people. And I learned so much from that interview.

I really did.

Yeah.

I mean, thank you again, Abe and Elaine, because I want to be more intentional in how we can be creative. Yes. Creative on our date nights and otherwise. I hope you guys encouraged that, those who watched and listened. So thank you. Thank you. Naked Marriage podcast family, as always. Love for you to leave a review. Love for you to share this link in a direct text message with somebody that might be in this exact dynamic or just share on your social media for anybody, because I think anybody in any situation could really benefit from this. Also, you can find us on Instagram, Dave and Ashley Willis. Find our YouTube channel where this podcast will live, and you can watch that and other things as well. Find us on Facebook. And we just really appreciate you guys.

We do. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.

Sam.