The #1 Intimacy Killer

There are so many things that can kill intimacy in your marriage, and we're going to talk about them in this episode. We're going to start talking about the number one killer of intimacy, and that's this right here, your phone, which can be a great tool. You're probably watching this video on a phone right now. Keep watching. It's a good thing, but it can also be a distraction, as all of us know. Plus, we're going to talk about two other dangerous intimacy killers, and they might not be what you're thinking they are. We're also going to talk about how to manage them.

That's right. And at the end of this video, we'll share a very disturbing and shocking situation our team found. And you need to know about it. You won't even believe it. Like, we're still kind of reeling. I had no idea it was quite. Yeah, it's problematic and you'll want to know it. We're Dave and Ashley Willis and you're watching the Naked Marriage podcast.

All right. It's going to be a great episode. I've really enjoyed this series. I hope you have too. If you've missed any of these episodes on intimacy, I encourage you to go back and start listening. The first one was the second Monday of April, right after the John Deloney interview, which was the first Monday of April, which is a great episode as well. Really. Just go back to the beginning of the Naked Marriage podcast and listen to all of the episodes.

Take it all in, guys.

I don't want you to miss a thing, but this series has been, I don't know, it's been special. I think it's been meaningful and I hope it's been meaningful to you. And so today we're again talking about the killers. And in the digital age that we're living in, we're in a hyper connected world. Our phones are powerful and I'm thankful for them. Phones are not the devil. Phones are awesome. They're the reason you're able to listen to this podcast for free. They're the reason that you're able to call and text your loved ones. They're the reason you're able to know what's happening in your family's lives so easily. But it's a double edged sword, as they say. Just as there's a lot of good, there's also a lot of negative. There's the outwardly sinfully negative things that the phone can bring, like pornography, and we talk a ton about that. But there's the more subtle, destructive ways that Phones can sabotage us, and that's in just being distracted. You know, being distracted is the enemy of being connected.

Yes.

And if you want to be connect, connection is the language of intimacy. Distraction is the language of separation. And so we've got to. We've got to put distraction down so that we can be connected. And our phones are the most distracting devices that have ever been created.

They really are. And I love my phone. I mean, my phone's right here beside me. I keep it on me. You know, right now, we're recording in Texas. Our kids are in Georgia. So, I mean, for good reason, you know, we're able to connect with them. I can literally click on my phone to a camera that's in my house and talk to them through that camera. Like, I mean, what kind of world are we living in? It's crazy.

It's cool.

And it brings me comfort to know we can do that. And also, I can look things up and I can find stuff to add to this podcast. I mean, there's so many good things, and connecting on social media, it's wonderful, and I love it. But I do think when it comes to marriage, we've got to be so careful. I mean, first of all, we talked about this in an early episode, but when we're with our spouse, we need to be really careful to put down the phone and give them our eyes. Okay. And really just look at them and really take in what they're saying. Because we've been guilty of this. Like, sometimes we'll be in the middle of something, and, you know, and I get that, but you need to let your spouse know before they start talking to you. Like, I can't wait to catch up. Give me just one minute. And then you can put down your phone and give them your attention. Because if not, we. We end up having misunderstandings that could have been avoided had we not had our phones in our face and were distracted by something else. And I think we, you know, have a culture of multitasking. But really, multitasking when it comes to marriage is really toxic. You can't multitask your marriage. Okay.

No.

It's gonna take, you know, your best attention to be able to really invest in your marriage and nurture your marriage. And so it's important that we really are mindful about what we're doing with this phone. And it isn't just how we're using it in the presence of our spous, but it's even more so what we're doing when they're not with us. Like, how are we using all the digital tools to enhance our marriage? Because there's a lot of stuff out there that can really hurt your marriage. I mean, you guys, I hear or I read rather, you know, messages on a daily basis and answer many of your messages of people getting caught up in pornography in OnlyFans sites, which is basically sort of a version of pornography. People who are, you know, kind of looking for attractive people in other places on Facebook or on Instagram, either just to feast their eyes or to connect with old flames because you feel disconnected. And what I want to tell you is I understand that when we're lonely, sometimes we can find ourselves down rabbit holes. We never even thought was a rabbit hole. We just thought it was innocent. But I'm telling you, it's not. Okay. And most of the time, when people start walking down that road of loneliness to maybe reconnecting with or connecting or reconnecting with people online, I think there is that initial. This isn't good necessarily. But then they start connecting with that person and having intimacy that we've talked about that, if anything, emotional intimacy with that person. And before you know it, your hearts are like, tethered together. And it's hard to deal with the aftermath of that because there will be an aftermath. There will be some sort of consequences, you know, at. At least it would be just hurting your spouse's heart to know that you've connected with someone outside of your marriage, you know, someone of the opposite sex outside of your spouse. And so we need to be so careful what we're doing with these devices, how we're. How we're connecting. Don't go looking for connections outside your marriage with somebody of the opposite sex. Guys, it's not. They're not your friend. They're not your friend. I'll be honest with you. Some of this. And we could have whole episodes on. In fact, we need a whole episode on the only Fan thing because it's becoming a pervasive issue, and it's connecting.

To a real person.

It's a real person in real time.

It's not just that site. There are other sites like it that are popping up.

Right, right, right.

And I had a friend call me just a couple weeks ago whose marriage is in crisis because he had spent a fortune on one of these sites connecting with, you know, these women.

It's sometimes pictures, I think, transcribing and.

Video chatting and doing sexual things. And his wife found out, and it's a form of. It's clearly a form of cheating.

Oh, yeah.

In his mind. I think he was believing the lie. Well, I'm not physically with this person, and so it's not cheating, but it's in every way an intimate betrayal. And so many marriages are being sabotaged by this right now. And it's a connection. It's a deeper connection than just pornography because you think, oh, well, this is a real person. I'm having this real connection. And, man, on so many levels, guys, it is just toxic. It breaks my heart to see what's happening with this stuff.

It is.

And if you're caught up in it, you know, stop, stop. Get help.

Yes.

Confess what's going on.

It will be messy. I'll tell you, it will be messy. I mean, you guys, I. There's a story about. And I'm sure this isn't a singular story, tragically, but it was a story about a family where the husband got in deep with OnlyFans through Instagram and started connecting with this girl. And kind of. She saw the writing on the wall that she could make a lot of money from this guy, but he was convinced they were soulmates, even though he was married and had children. And it turned out that he spent thousands of dollars on this woman, and now she is blackmailing him that if he doesn't continue paying her, she's going to out him. And so it's caused this whole mess. Yeah, I mean, it's just people on.

The other side of that screen do not care.

They don't care. They won't love you back. Okay. And it's just. It's. It's very tragic.

It really is. And we're sabotaging real intimacy for these really dangerous counterfeits. You know, we have a book called the Counterfeit Climax that is kind of all about the mindsets that lead us down these. These counterfeit trails that sabotage true intimacy and to reclaim the beautiful gift of sex and intimacy that God has for us. And I think that could be a helpful resource for every person, for every married couple. And so check. Check that out. I mean, some of it is hard to hear. Some of it's. It's not always fun to hear and to talk about, but really important, really compelling. And I think that everybody could benefit from it. So the digital age stuff is one big aspect, and I think we get that. But another aspect of intimacy killing we don't talk about enough is controlling behavior, recognizing and addressing patterns of control that undermine intimacy. And control can happen in a lot of different ways. It can happen through outright abuse when one spouse is so demanding and Bullying and threatening, that they just insist on getting their way at the threat of violence. Most of the time it's more subtle than that. It usually happens in a power dynamic within marriage where one spouse has a more dominant personality. And we talk about the dangers of that dominance and how it's a threat to the partnership that God created marriage to have. And dominance is not a gender specific sin. You're just as likely to have grown up with a dominant father as you were a dominant mother, and vice versa. But when one spouse is very controlling and they try to get you to believe that you show them your love by obeying them, essentially bending to their will no matter what their will is by emotionally sabotaging or manipulating things, by screaming or crying like a toddler to get their way, by withholding sex or doing other things to coerce and manipulate behavior. All of that, guys, is such a saboteur of intimacy.

It really is, because intimacy is forged freely, okay? You must forge it freely. It's something where you can't force it. You don't like, you can foster it. You can foster it and nurture it, but it's something where it's, it's built, you know, and it's not one of you should not be in control of it. It's not like that. And so I think where it boils down to is that you have to, you know, you have to be gut level honest about whether or not you feel like you've been controlling. Like maybe watching and listening to this is feeling a bit convicting. Well, I would just take that as the holy spirit, you know, kind of tapping you on the shoulder saying, this is something you need to work on. I encourage you if that's. You go to your spouse and say, I'm so sorry, I want to do better. I didn't realize how control. But I feel like I probably have been because I'm trying to control kind of these aspects of our relationship. And I think it's really like choking it out. It's choking out the intimacy. But odds are, you know, a lot of times when someone is having a lot of control, they don't want to lose it and they don't necessarily see it. Okay? And so odds are it's going to be one of you who's feeling, or many of you who are feeling like your spouse is controlling you. Like maybe you felt like, man, I just feel like I don't even get any choice in my life. It's like. And anytime I, you know, try to make a decision or even when I come to them. It's like they have to be the one who ultimately chooses things. And they have strong opinions about every aspect of me and who I am. And I just don't even feel like I can be like myself anymore. I don't even know if I know myself. I mean, I've met people like that who were like, my spouse is so controlling. I don't even really know who I am anymore. You know, there's people who feel that way. And if that's you, it's going to take you going to your spouse and saying, listen, I really feel like this pattern of control that. I feel like that we've had this power dynamic in our marriage. It's not. It's really choking out the intimacy in our marriage. And I want to have an intimate marriage. I want to feel close to you, but really, I'm kind of. I'm put off by you because I feel like I'm your puppet. I feel like I'm your puppet. I'm your arm candy. I'm your project, whatever it is. And I don't want to be that anymore. I want to be your wife. I want to be your husband. And, you know, I'll take. You know, it might even be you saying, listen, I didn't recognize it before, so maybe I've perpetuated this unknowingly, but I don't want to do it anymore. And I don't want to cause a fight. I don't want this to be something that makes you want to grip control in our lives more, because that's not what God. You know, how God designed marriage. And I really want us to learn how to do this in a healthy way, to have that intimacy we so long for. And they may not take it well, but I would encourage you to keep asking for this and maybe even put some boundaries in place. And when you sense that control coming on and how they talk to you or how they, you know, whatever it is to have that power grab, put some boundaries in place and say, no, no. See, this is what I'm talking about. This isn't good for us. And if you feel like it's falling on deaf ears, I encourage you reach out to our marriage mediators. You can go to xomarriagehelp.com and you can have professional mediators that will help you to walk through this, because I'm sure this didn't happen overnight, this power dynamic. And so it's not going to be an overnight change. But I'm telling you, keep on praying for your Spouse and praying for yourself. And I would trust that the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will wake us up. Like the Holy Spirit will work within your marriage and then take the steps that you can take to set the baptism boundaries to make this known to your spouse. Because recognizing it and addressing it are the first steps to breaking these patterns of control. But I think focusing on why you're bringing this up to your spouse and saying, like, it's because I want closeness, and I don't feel it with you. Sometimes I'm even scared of you. Like, sometimes, you know, I will bend to your control because you're so aggressive in, like, your approach, and you're so, you know, cut off from me. Like, maybe they manipulate you to have control. And I just don't want a cold. I don't want the cold shoulder, so I'll bend to your will. And, you know, some of you watching this and listening might be like, well, that sounds abusive. And in some situations, it might be. I mean, so if you feel like you are, you know, being abused, please reach out for help. Please, please do not feel like you have to withstand abuse. That is not what God wants for you. Reach out for help. Certainly. Certainly if they become physically abusive, call or go to the hotline. Am I saying that right? And there will be a person right there in real time who can help you and get you to a safe place. But control, even if it's not technically abusive, is still not good for your marriage.

It's certainly not. Like Ashley said, if that's the dynamic you're in, get help. There's a lot of help available.

There is.

And protect yourself. And a third aspect of intimacy killing we want to touch on in this episode is stress. Stress and innovisci. Stress.

That's so true.

Stress is the silent killer because we don't even. It's like carbon monoxide. You know, it can be filling the room. We don't even know it's there. And it's choking the life out of our marriage the whole time. And I have been super stressed out at different seasons. You know, I think that stress is what ultimately triggered the thyroid disorder that I have, which caused the domino effect of stress, creating physical health challenges, creating mental health challenges just all the way down the list. And stress is an epidemic in our society.

We're addicted to hurting it as normal. It's just seen as normal.

Yeah, just breakneck speed that we. We rush around trying to get everything done is seen as normal. And Ashley and I are both, you know, we're both Hard driving personalities. You know, we like to get a lot done. And so both of us have to temper that and to check in and be like, wait a second, this feels. This is too much. We need to pull back. We need to. I mean, Ashley's been doing a master's degree program the last three years. Plus, you know, we travel a ton for our work. We love our work. We love everything we're doing with xo. You know, we're writing, we're managing a lot of messages and different things on social media, which we love that you guys write us. But it's.

It's a lot.

It's a lot.

And you all can relate too. Everybody's got stuff going on.

Everybody's got stuff. And it's not a contest. You know, I know a lot of you guys are busier than us, and it's not a contest. Just because someone else is busier than you doesn't mean that you're not too busy or that you don't have a reason to be stressed. So stress happens when we're taking on more or we're taking on a pace that's more than God intended for us to manage in a healthy way. And some ways to get out of that are to unplug more often. And I'm talking to myself here. These are all things I'm learning and struggling to get to. Like, put the phone down more, get outside more, get fresh air, get vitamin D, where that sunshine hits your skin. Do some things that help you to relax. Take time to pray. Take time to be in nature. Take time to just communicate with loved ones. Say no more than you have in the past so that you're not overwhelming your schedule. You might need to quit some things that you have been doing where it's time to step away from them and watch your diet and exercise. Those things I think can be really helpful. And let your spouse, if your spouse points out, like, hey, I really feel like you're really stressed, don't get defensive, you know, when they. They see your blind spots.

Yeah.

And let that be a conversation starter about how you can both find a healthier pace.

But I will say how you communicate that you think your spouse is stressed is essential. I used to, in the early years when Dave would get stressed, I'd be like, honey, just calm down. Like, that's. And he'd be like, what?

No one in the history of the world has calmed down because they were told to calm down. I know.

And I was like, I'm only meaning it well. Like, it's okay, calm down. That kind of thing. Not like, calm down, you know, But I think other people struggle this because they're like, well, why are you stressed? I had this going on. I have every reason to be stressed and you don't see me losing it over here. Like, we get into this tit for tat game that just doesn't lead us anywhere. So it's really important when you do notice that you both are caught in this, like, stress cycle of never really connecting because you're so busy. Or maybe you've just noticed your spouses, you're like, man, you're never home or you never have time for a date. You never have time for just even a check in. I would say it very lovingly, like, I miss you. Come from that standpoint, I miss you. I long for connection with you. But lately I feel like we're disconnected and I don't like it because I miss my best friend, I miss my husband, I miss my wife. And I just, I really want us to take a hard look at our schedules and really try to find these touch points throughout the week so that we're not missing each other. Because if it goes on too long, we're just going to grow further apart and I don't want that. And I think that it's hard to argue with those I statements of like, I miss you and I just haven't seen you in a long time. And when, when I feel like I haven't seen you in a long time, I just feel, I feel, I feel, you know, unsure of our future because I feel like we're growing apart. Like, just really use those I statements to get the point across. So you're not accusatory, but you're more coming out of a point of curiosity and concern because that is very disarming.

Yeah, it's very disarming. That's a good way to. Good way to approach it, guys. There are many, many other ways to deal with stress, and we've written about some of these. You can go to xomarriage.com and find some good articles that have some stress relieving tools and also a whole variety of resources that are going to help you just overall in the intimacy of your marriage. Before we sign off this episode, though, we promised at the beginning we were going to share a startling statistic that had to deal with intimacy killers, and this one deals with technology. Our team shared the statistic with us and it's shocking. 35%. That's a full third of all affairs start on Facebook. So make sure you set your boundaries on social media with members of the opposite sex. And we'll link to the full article that had this statistic in the description here in the show notes. So just be careful, guys. When somebody slides into your DMs on Instagram or Facebook, it can go place. You can, you know, connect with old flames or connect with, you know, somebody you haven't seen in a while or maybe somebody that you know from work or whatever, and you start this conversation that gets, that gets too friendly too fast. It's just super, super dangerous. And that's why you got to have clear boundaries digitally and no passwords that your spouse doesn't know. You have to have full access to each other's stuff.

Right.

Because secrecy is the enemy of intimacy.

It is. And I just want to say this one tip on how to avoid, you know, letting social media be something that ends up, you know, being an inappropriate relationship or worse, an affair is think about if someone does message you and you absolutely have to message them back, I would think to yourself, what would I say to them with my spouse right beside me? How would I talk to them? What would I say? And also ask yourself, why am I even messaging this person back? You know, because I'm telling you, if it is somebody from your past and it's just a friendly message, doesn't mean anything, you can keep it very surface level, very just, you know, friendly, but surface level and just kind of avoid anything deeper so that you're not going down that path. And if they act weird about it and kind of confront you with it and be like, oh, you used to be kind of flirty with me. Or you used to this and that, just say, listen, I just love my husband. I love my wife. I just really, out of respect for her, out of respect for him, I just really want to keep it here and probably not even have any correspondence. That's what I was just saying. I was saying if you had to, because it was like, it would have been weird.

You're going to see them at work, you're going to see them.

Right, exactly. And it's just there's ways to shut it down by. Even if it won't probably come to that, but keeping it very. Just either don't respond, put a thumbs up, whatever, and just don't even respond, or just put a very short response will get the picture. I mean, I think they'll get the picture. So.

Yeah, man. No, that's a sobering stat.

It is. But you know what? I'll tell you, as a counselor, I can attest that is true.

Yeah. You've seen it.

I've seen it. After that, tragically, I've seen the aftermath and it breaks my heart. And even in the work we do, how many times have we heard that?

Oh, gosh.

I mean, it is. It's something about Facebook. More so than some of the others. So anyway, beware of that.

Or if you're on Facebook, find us and we'll give you some marriage tips.

That's right.

So it's not all bad.

Go to facebook.com strongermarriages and also go to exomarriage.

If you DM us anything inappropriate, we will block you.

I'll block you so fast you won't.

Even know I'm the kind of person because you're part of the naked nation that listens to the Naked Marriage podcast. You're the kind of person that's awesome and sends encouraging messages and we love you and we wish the whole world were more like you.

That's right. We do love your all's messages. Most of them are so encouraging or just truly seeking advice. And we love it. Find out more about how boundaries can prevent serious issues in your marriage by watching our video with Matt Chandler and Lauren Chandler. Click here to watch now and like and subscribe and we'll see you next.