The Best of 2020 | The Naked Marriage Podcast | Dave and Ashley Willis

You know, 2020 has been a difficult year for a lot of couples. In fact, the divorce rates have spiked. A lot of couples have written us saying this has been the most difficult year of our marriage yet. But in a lot of good ways. Exo Marriage, the ministry we're a part of, the ministry that makes this podcast possible and many other resources possible for that matter, has helped to restore and encourage and even save many marriages this year and over the many years of its history. And that's been possible because of the faithful giving of those who've partnered with us. And so we just want to say thank you to those who've given to exomarriage. Your tax deductible gifts have really fueled and funded this ministry, and it's literally saved marriages and kept families intact. And we just want to say thank you.

We do. And, you know, we absolutely love being part of the team here at ExoMarriage. We love coming to you through these podcasts, but we want you to have that same experience of being a part of changing marriages for the better. And so why not end 2020 on a high note and give to this ministry? You can do that by going to xomarriage.com give. Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we have a really cool podcast today for you because we are going to highl three of our top episodes. You're gonna hear portions of those from 2020, and unfortunately, we do not have video to these, so if you listen or watch on YouTube, it's just gonna be audio today, but it's still a huge treat. I can't wait for y' all to hear these episodes.

That's right. And I can't believe 2020 is over, that this is the last episode of 2020. Where has the time gone, though? There have been a lot of great things that did happen in 2020, but it's been a hard year in a lot of ways. And so I'm excited about the new beginning of 2021 and. But we've had a lot of fun on the podcast and there are a lot of high moments to celebrate. And so I'm excited about the ones you're going to hear on this episode. It's our best of 2020. The first portion is of episode 73, where we interviewed our mentor, Pastor Jimmy Evans, talking about his book, the Four Laws of Love. You're going to hear how to keep your marriage a priority and Also a hilarious story that happens when Jimmy and Karen are driving together. I think a lot of us can relate to the stress that can happen. A husband and wife get in a car together. So this was one of my favorite episodes of 2020. Let's take a listen.

You know, we've had people write us and say, no, but when you have kids, they have to come first. But every time we do that as parents, it not only hurts our marriage, but it hurts our kids too.

Absolutely. If you love your children, don't let them be the center of the universe. Yeah. And you hear people say, make comments, men and women, oh, I live for my kids.

Yes.

Huge mistake. Your kids are going to leave home and you know, they're 18 years old, 19, whatever, they're going to leave home. And the thing is this. If, if you forsake your marriage for your kids, how are they going to succeed in marriage? Because only thing they've seen is a rotten marriage. The other thing is when your kids leave, you're in crisis because you don't know each other.

Yeah.

You gave up your. And by the way, bad in laws, this is where they come from. Problem in laws, problems forsake their marriage. They over attach to their child. Their child leaves home and they follow them emotionally. Okay? And then that's where in laws come from. So a good marriage, first of all, God comes first. That is not church. That's your personal relationship with Jesus. Your spouse comes second, your children come third, church fourth. You know, like that in real terms. So when our kids were growing up, Brent who president of Marriage Day, we trained them to respect our marriage. And we put them in bed at night. When they're little, we put them in bed. Eight or so or later they put themselves to bed. But we let them know we ate dinner together as a family. We were with them. I prayed for them, put them to bed every night. And then they knew this is mom and dad's time. And we gave you your time. And kids are master manipulators, you know. Oh, yeah, and I want water. You know, I want to go to the bathroom. There's a monster in my room.

Well, like you say, they want to possess your soul.

They want to possess your soul. And you say, well, you're not going to get any water in the morning. You got a diaper, use it. And if a monster's in your room, you got somebody to talk to. So just leave us alone. But see, if little kids, if little kids feel like they're the center of the universe, they'll Consume you. And they don't care.

No, they don't.

They don't care how tired you are. Okay. So you have to train them to respect your marriage. And the other thing is so Brent and Julie, our son and daughter, they both been married for over 20 years. They have wonderful marriages. Exactly. What we did with them is what they do with their kids.

And it works.

It works.

And you know they're gonna. Your kids are blessed because now they're seeing the way marriage ought to be. And they're gonna do with their kids and they're gonna do with their kids. But when you forsake your marriage for the kids, the kids are gonna leave. And they do not have the resource of having seen their parents have a good marriage.

Yeah, yeah. That's one of the, that's why so many couples end up with an empty nest and an empty marriage at the same time. We say because they've done exactly what you're. And really it creates a codependent relationship with the kids or a broken in law marriage dynamic. Yeah, there's so, so much that they can go wrong there. Kind of turning the page just a little bit. Talk to you say, and I love this just because I think it's funny and I think so many can relate. But every marriage, even the healthiest marriages, have those points where there's maybe a little more tension, even if it's kind of tension in a funny way. And I think it's both hilarious and practical when you talk about how you and Karen have a great marriage everywhere except in the car.

And I love it. Oh, it's true. Oh, it's true.

I just, every time you kind of talk, you peel back the curtain and let us see that dynamic. It's so funny. But I also think that it's practical to talk about because every marriage has some of those areas where in this particular context we have a harder time finding unity. So talk us through that.

Well, you know, we're just humans and it is important that you agree and that you respect each other and meet each other's needs and all that. But when we get in the car, Karen is just bossy. I mean, she just turn here, stop. She just thinks she's right about everything in the car. And you know something. And it still bothers me to some degree. But as you get older in marriage, you just kind of give each other grace. So when we get in the car, we just kind of give each other grace. And so. But she'll say, turn here. That's the wrong way. You know, you should have taken that. You should have stopped there at that light. Now you just ran that light. It's just. It's never ending. Okay, well, Karen drives like a crazy woman. She is the most aggressive driver I've ever ridden with. And Brent, her son, is the same way. She scares me dead. And so I get in the car. She'll say, we're gonna take my car. She'll grab her keys, and I go.

Oh, gosh, Lord help us.

Lord help us. And so, oh, I get in the car. I'm so nervous. And so she'll be, you know, just going fast or, you know, doing crazy stuff. And I'll say, karen, Karen, slow down. You just sit over there and relax. It's like, I haven't been relaxed since you grabbed your keys.

My life's flashing before my eyes every. I love it. I love it.

Oh, my goodness.

Oh, that's. That's so, so good.

Oh, I just love that. I love listening to Jimmy and him talk about those early marriage years with. With he and Karen. It's just so awesome.

So great.

All right, to hear more about Jimmy and Karen Evans, make sure you check out the Marriage Today podcast. They are amazing.

They really, really are. I mean, their content is. I mean, it's what this whole ministry is based on. Marriage Today. And now XO Marriage. They're the pioneers, and so, so many great stories. All right, next up is a highlight of our conversation in episode 72, talking about the importance of intimacy outside the bedroom. You're gonna hear us talk about a time we were out on a date, but I was not really fully present, and Ashley lovingly kind of brought me back. And so it's a funny story, but also, I think it has a lot of practical application. So let's dive in. In different seasons, you gotta find ways to help each other out. And there are gonna be different seasons and different particular struggles that one spouse has to kind of carry more of the weight. It's not always exactly 50 50, but even in those seasons, you've got to look for ways to support each other. And so we want to talk about some specific ways in every season of marriage that you can cultivate that respect and that intimacy, especially maybe if you're in a season where there's a little bit of a disconnect.

Yes.

And so the first one, we're going to just kind of, you know, read. Read these off a list and then. And then say a little bit about them. Sweetie, you want to.

Yes. All right, number one, whenever you greet your spouse, do Your best to look them in the eyes, ask them about their day, and listen to what they have to say. And, you know, we make this point about looking in the eyes because we are in a culture where, you know, our spouse and the people we love the most don't always have our eyes because we're responding to them. Maybe even grunting, like, maybe not even saying words while we're on the cell phone, looking at a screen, looking at the tv, looking at the laptop. And I have been so guilty of this. So, I mean, I'm saying this as one who has. Who has struggled with this and who has had to be intentional about this. And you guys, I mean, there is nothing like looking in your spouse's eyes. Like, one of my most favorite things about Dave are that he has what I like to refer to as honest eyes. And that's, like, one of the first things I said to you. I was like, I just love your honest eyes. And, you know, it's romantic to look into your spouse's eyes. And we're talking about intimacy here. Looking deep into your spouse's eyes is an intimate act, and it's important to make that a daily part of your routine is to actually look them in the face. And I would even say take it a step further and embrace. I mean, embrace your spouse in the morning. When you get up in the morning, even if you have sweater tooth and nasty breath, give them, you know, a nice look into. Deep into their eyes. Give them a hug, say, then. Then, like, cover your mouth and say, I need to go brush my teeth. But I'm so happy to see you. And, you know, just. Just making that. That effort and that intentional effort, because it is. It takes intention.

It really, really does. And that leads into number two. You've already touched on this, but I think we can definitely touch on this again.

Oh, yes.

Be sure to put the cel down and other electronic devices away so you can give them your best attention. Recent survey results said that average person touches their cell phone more than 2,000 times per day. Wow. Which means, like, we're just addicted to these little things. I mean, I've got mine right here. Most of the time, it's, like, right within arm's reach, whether I'm sleeping or awake. And I need just. I need more accountability in my life in this area. I need to have better boundaries. But it is the thing that. That can cause a division in the marriage without realizing. And we're four phones. I mean, you guys, most of you are listening to this podcast right now. Because of the technology made possible by these brilliant little devices we carry in our pockets. We are thankful for the technology and for all the good that can be done with it. But if we're not careful, that gift can turn into a huge distraction in our marriage, and we've got to be willing to put it away. I think we talk about it a lot. One of our best times of the day, Ashley and me, to reconnect, is we go on a. We go on a long walk almost every single night. And we love that because there are no phones. We've got the phones in the pocket in case, you know, our.

In case our kiddos need to call. Yeah.

But for the most part, we're walking, we're talking. There's no screen to distract us, and we have our best conversation of the day.

Right.

Doing that. You can't have an intimate conversation if your spouse is having to compete with your phone while you're talking.

It's so true. And I would even say this. Like, we were reminded of this, you know, if you go to a restaurant, a lot of these restaurants today have all these TVs everywhere. And I remember we were on a date, like, a day date not too long ago, and Dave did not even realize. He's so good, you guys, about being intentional and being in a conversation. But there was a really, like, a game that he was really interested in, and I was trying to have this serious conversation with him. He called me out, and I called him out.

You were like, so do you not want to talk, or do you.

No. And I was angst on it.

No, you weren't snarky.

But I was like, sweetie, are you just not wanting to.

You were actually really sweet about it. You said, like, you. You were very kind. It wasn't snarky or sarcastic. It was just, do you not want to talk right now? Do you. You know? Or would you rather just want to watch that? But it kind of, like, brought me back to my senses because I was tired, and when I'm tired, my eyes just kind of, you know, just scroll to whatever screen is there. And it pulled me back, and I said, no, I'm sorry. You know, I was distracted, but I'm here. There's nothing in this room more important than you, and I want to talk with you. That's what I want to do.

And I think why I was frustrated is because it was one of those conversations where I really needed his full attention. And he didn't even realize it at the time, but he was looking at the screen and then he would give me an answer that didn't have anything to do with what I was saying. And I was just like, this is madness. And I'd be like, sweetie, geometry.

I was just saying words didn't.

But, you know, it's not just that. Like, I have to be reminded of that as well. So it's. We all deal with this. It's just kind of the world we live in. But we've gotta be super intentional and not let those screens rule us. They're only meant to be a tool in our lives. They're not meant to be our full focus or even our master. You know, I think sometimes we think, oh, my gosh, the phone is calling me. Like, I must answer it right then, right there. We've gotta put boundaries in place.

They're a good servant, but a poor master. Don't let them ruin your lives. Help them help you run your life the way you want.

As you all know, we love a date night, and we definitely encourage couples to have a regular date night. But during this time, many of us have had to get a little creative with the date nights we go on every month. The Unbox Love team puts their heads together and comes up with an awesome date night. They plan activities that allow couples to learn about each other, experience something new together, and make memories that will last. And then they wrap all of that up in a box and send it to you, which is just awesome.

And the themes are amazing. So each date is built on a theme. Past themes have been stuff like a trip to Italy and the brand new 1 90s date night. And I am so excited about this. So in this box right now, there is a box of 1990s pop trivia, which I just geek out on. And then a bunch of stuff, snacks, and candies that were available in the 90s that I haven't seen since. This is like opening a time capsule taking me back to the 90s. And I just want to jump in the box and live there because I kind of loved the 90s. This. It's so fun. It's so creative. You and your spouse, whether you're young, old, in between, you will have so much fun with the themed date night boxes.

And as a listener of the naked marriage podcast, Unbox Love is giving you 10% of the off. And all you have to do is visit unboxlove.com naked that's unboxlove.com naked.

If.

You'Ve listened to our naked marriage podcast for any length of time, you know that we are huge fans of Christian Counseling. And we have both benefited from individual Christian counseling throughout our entire marriage, and we know that it can benefit you as well. You know, we talk a lot about marriage counseling, but there's something about finding inner healing as an individual, and it will really help your marriage in the long run. And so we have an amazing resource to share with you.

Yeah, I'm so excited that we can finally offer this. And we found the right partners at Faithful Counseling, and they do an amazing job to connect with you from home. You don't have to go sit in an office wherever you are. I know a lot of people write us and say, there's not a good Christian counselor in our area. Now, wherever you are, as long as you have Internet access, you can get access to great Christian counseling. Just go to this site. It's getfaithful.com nakedmarriage and there's a 10% discount exclusively for you as a Naked marriage podcast listener. But you do have to go to this specific site. It is getfaithful.com nakedmarriage and like Ashley just said, both of us from personal experience can attest to the inner healing and the freedom that can be experienced through good personal Christian counseling. You can experience this as well in your marriage. Number three, if your spouse seems extra stressed when you greet them, ask what you can do to help and actually mean it. This will go a long way in lifting the burden to allow your spouse to be more inviting to you as well. When we're selfless, it comes down to that selflessness of really thinking of your spouse ahead of yourself. And this is such a biblical concept, by the way. The world says, don't let anybody walk all over you, and you get what you want and you give as little as you can. And Jesus comes along and says, no. True greatness is in serving others. True greatness, true love is in letting others go first and putting the needs of others ahead of yourself. And in marriage especially, that should be ground zero for where we're living out the tenets of our faith. And even if you don't share our Christian faith, give this a try. I'm telling you, serving one another will make a huge difference in your marriage.

It will. But let me make this point very clear, and we talk about this very clearly throughout all of our podcasts. We're not talking about prolonged mistreatment or abuse. We are not. You should never withstand abuse, Whether it's psychological, emotional, physical. We're talking about when your spouse just happens to be in a bad mood. And instead of throwing gasoline on it and being you're a loser and you're just so mean all the time, you know, like. And just like lighting a fire to your marriage and to them and making it worse. We're saying as a spouse, you have a very special placement in their life where you can be like water because you know the triggers, but you also know kind of the balm, you know, how to add. If they're, you know, feeling enraged, burned, so to speak, you can be like the aloe to their life and you can make things calmer. And that's what we need to strive to do. I'm not saying, like, if your spouse is a narcissist and they're just emotionally manipulating you all the time, that's not the scenario we're talking about here. So I just wanna be very clear about that. But if your spouse is just kinda, you know, they come home in a bad mood, you say, listen, I can tell you've had a hard day. Why don't you go and run? Or why don't you go and watch that movie that you've been wanting to watch or have some time over here reading the book that you've been wanting to read so that you can kind of come down from the day instead of being like, well, I've had a rough day too.

You need everything.

Yeah. Why do you need this? I need this and. Cause it's easy to do that. I mean, believe me, it's easy to do that. You know, I know we mentioned earlier the child rearing years. That's one of those times where you're like, everybody's feeling like they're just completely just burning at both ends on empty. And so we have to be super careful in those seasons. There's so many more things to get to. And if you wanna know the full list about this, you can go to marriagetoday.com and go through the entire list of kind of those things to consider and how to bring more intimacy into your. Into your relationship outside of the bedroom, but I'm gonna share one more with you, and that's number four. It's if one or both of you has struggled with being uninviting to the other for a long time. Be patient with each other as you work to improve this aspect of your marriage. Old habits die hard. Gosh, that is so true. But the good new behaviors will form with persistence and consistency. You know, I think one of the biggest kind of things that all of us kind of fall for is if there's not change quickly Then there's never gonna be change. And that's just a lie from Satan. And Satan would love nothing more than to make you feel far, far away from your spouse and to bust up your marriage. Because he hates it when people are living out these institutions, so to speak, that God built. Cause God made marriage. He wants it to be this amazing relationship. And he wants you guys to be intimate and to be fulfilled and to be loving and kind to each other. And so, you know, Satan really does try to get a foothold by things like making you feel discouraged when you don't see change. And, you know, we talk to so many couples where they're so ready to just throw in the towel because they're like, well, they're putting a timeline on things like, well, I didn't see the change I wanted to see in a month. So I guess we're just not meant to be. But that really is limiting God and what he can do. And God's timing is not our timing. It's just not our timing. Because God sees the full picture. And he is never late, but he is usually never early. I will just say that I've learned that in my 38 years of life. I have learned that. But he is always right in the nick of time. And so we have to keep on praying. We have to keep on doing those things we know we should be doing. And we need to keep on reminding our spouse that God is for us, not against us, and that we can do this. You know, I think so many times when our spouse is down and they're feeling discouraged, be that voice that brings them back up. Be that person in their corner. Be the shoulder they lean on when they're not feeling strong enough. And so I just want to encourage you. Cause there's going to be. It's really an ebb and flow in marriage. There's gonna be times where you're feeling like the strong one, and there's gonna be times where you're feeling like the weak one. There's gonna be times where your spouse is hopeful, and there's gonna be times when you're doubtful. And so we have to lift each other up in those times. All right, our last episode that we will be Highlighting is episode 74, where we talk about how to overcome disagreements.

Yes. And this is something that every couple can face. And we're gonna talk about it specifically when there's a life transition, like, moving. Just some of those big life transition moments which every couple faces. And they can lead to a lot of frustration, but they can also, if we do it right, lead to a lot of strength and growth in the marriage. So let's dive into this.

You know, I want to share a story. Another big decision that I think that many couples have to make is, like, taking a new job or moving even. Especially if that job requires moving.

Yeah, that's good.

And we've been there multiple times. Like, throughout our marriage, we've moved multiple times. And it's even a bigger decision when there's children involved that are school age, because then you have to take that into account. And, like, would this be something that would be, you know, a good move for our children, or would it be detrimental? And we have to weigh all those things. Well, years ago, we had an opportunity to move, and it was a great job opportunity for Dave. And I remember we went. We did the interview, and, you know, we felt pretty good about it, but there was this part of me that just. I wasn't. I mean, I was just not on board. And I said, I don't feel good about this. I don't think it's it. And Dave's like, I kind of. I feel like it's not perfect. No job is perfect. No place is perfect. But I really feel like God's leading us here. And this was the first time in a long time that we had kind of been on different pages with that kind of decision, and it was a weird place to be. I remember being like, lord, why don't, you know, why are we not unified in this decision? And so that night, I prayed. I just prayed this very fervent prayer. And it was almost like, you know, when you're dozing off and you're just really praying, almost like meditating on the word and praying that same, you know, one simple prayer over and over again. And that's what I was doing. And then at one point in my prayer, I found myself asking, you know, God, why here? Why would you want us to move here? Like, we love where we are. I know this job is great, but really, he loves his current job. And we're so settled where we are. Why here? And it was. I mean, it wasn't God, audibly speaking, but in my spirit. It talks about God kind of moving in your spirit through his holy Spirit. It was like I heard him say, why not here? Why not here, Ashley? And it really pushed me. And it was like in that moment, my heart. My heart just settled. And it was like I didn't have that fight in me to kind of fight Dave on this anymore. And it was like I felt that.

He was never gonna let it become a fight.

No, no, no, you weren't. You weren't.

Total veto power here, because, I don't know any decision ever, ever to. There's no decision that's ever worth a lack of unity in our marriage.

Sure, sure.

Ever. And so I feel like if God doesn't lead us to the same place on these big decisions, and, yeah, I can kind of lobby from my perspective, and I can say I really feel, you know, strongly about this and. And ask in some cases, just kind of just trust me on. On this one, and let's take a step of faith together. But the bottom line is if you didn't come to a place where you felt good about it, like it was never gonna happen. And for some couples, I think there's such vast personality differences. Most couples have one spouse who's more of one who really desires security and predictability, and another spouse who desires kind of adventure and new beginnings and just kind of going off into the unknown and what might happen there. And so that can be a constant source of friction in the marriage, because God wired you both up with that personality. It's not that either of your personalities is wrong. The one who desires security, God created you to desire security. The one who desired kind of like adventure, God created you that way. But you can't worship your personality as the one that's always right. You have to both be willing to step out of your comfort zone. Sometimes stepping out of your comfort zone means staying when you'd rather go. And sometimes stepping out of your comfort zone means going when you'd rather stay. But in every opportunity, pray together. Really turn it over to the Lord and trust that he has got your best interest at heart.

It's so true. Because the truth is, your spouse's opinions aren't wrong. They're just different. And like, in that particular scenario many years ago, when I was having that, I mean, Dave wasn't, like, forcing the issues. I wanna make that really clear. But I could just tell that he felt led there at that time, and I just wasn't quite there. And through that prayer, it's like God did answer my prayer. Cause I was trying to just find, like, God, what do you want us to do?

And.

And in that moment, he unified us. And I woke up the next day and I said, sweetie, listen, if they offer you the job, I do think you should take it. You know, I know I wasn't quite on board, you know, before, but I feel more of a piece now. And I think you should take it. And so we ended up ultimately taking that job. And God taught us a lot in that season. It was a season we needed. We needed to grow a lot. We needed to learn a lot. And so, you know, I'm just so thankful that in that moment of prayer that he showed me, and that's the truth, that what we're trying to say over and over again is that when you bring it to the Lord, he is going to show you what step you need to take. And it may not be in how you expect it to go. I mean, like, I really wasn't expecting that in my prayer. I wasn't expecting for him to say, you know what? Why not here, Ashley, you need to give this a chance. But he did show it to me because I brought it to him in prayer and because Dave was also seeking him. So just always seek him in every decision. Wow, it's just so cool to look back at some of our favorite episodes and even the top episodes of 2020. It's been such a great year. But we are so much looking forward to this next year and what God's going to do, not only in our own marriage, but through this podcast and your marriages.

Yeah, that's right. And so we want to thank you guys as we come to the end of another year, just for your support, your partnership, for being listeners, for your support of exomarriage, the ministry that we're a part of. And as, as we look ahead to 2021, great days are ahead. So tune in next week for a kickoff of a brand new season where we're going to be talking about how to be naked and healthy. So we will see you then.

If you and your spouse want to stay up to date on the latest and greatest from the Naked Marriage podcast, then you will not want to miss your opportunity to sign up for our email list.

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