The Danger of Online Secrets | Dave & Ashley Willis

Hello, and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And you guys, we are starting a new series today that we are so excited about because we really feel like it will keep you and your spouse from falling for some of the pitfalls that often lead to divorce. But before we dive into our first one today, I want to share a recent review with you. And this One is from Cubbies 31, and they gave us five stars. So thank you so much. And it says this. This show goes into great biblical truth. It has helped me understand what I have to do to help my sex life with my wife. And we are so grateful for that. You know, we hope that every episode we have actually helps you in some very practical way, and helping your sex.

Life is always a bonus and every other part, too. And we're going to talk about something today that I think could be super helpful. Very practical things that we're working through in our own marriage of, like, how do we stay on top of this? How do we make sure we're not developing secrets or anything, especially in our online behavior that could. That could be harmful to us or to our marriage and in the world we live in? Guys, this is a big, big issue. And so I'm excited to have this conversation. Let's dive in.

Well, I think that this subject matter is extremely important, and that is our online behavior. I mean, how we handle what we do online affects our marriage every single day.

It absolutely does. And this is a whole world that previous generations didn't even have to consider. This is an element and a layer of marriage and parenthood and life and all those things that didn't even exist when we were growing up, really, that all that you can do online and the secrecy that can happen there. Secrecy, as we talked about a lot in any part of marriage especially, is toxic because. Because secrecy is an enemy of intimacy. And the strongest marriages are naked marriages. Not just physical, but naked in terms of having no secrets, nothing to hide from each other, total transparency. And what we have found in helping couples and corresponding with couples all over the world is when secrets start, very often they start with online behavior. And that kind of just gives a foothold to a pattern of deceit in the marriage. And so you've got to be so careful about what you're doing on your phone, what you're doing on your computer, the correspondences you're having, the things you're searching for, the things that you're looking At. And you might think those things don't even matter. It's like it's harmless. I'm just scrolling through a phone. But everything we put into our eyes and our minds affects our marriage. And so we just have to be intentional about it.

We really do. And you guys, we have been receiving so many emails and DMs about this specifically. And. And that's why we wanted to actually do a full episode on this as one of the nine habits that can lead to divorce, because we've literally seen this happen. And really the reason it happens, and Dave's kind of touched on this already, is because people are in denial of the power that our online behavior has over us and over our relationship. And recently, a particular DM that came in said that this woman's husband has a lot of friends that he had recently connected with on Facebook. And these friends, many of them happened to be female. And I kind of got the impression that some of them he had maybe dated or had maybe a little romantic something with. And she said that, you know, he keeps on messaging with these women. And I guess, you know, there was a D. You know, like a notification that came in and she happened to look over at his phone and she said the nature of what this woman said seemed rather flirty. And so she brought it to her husband's attention because they want to have a naked marriage. And she said that he got kind of upset because he's like, well, that's not on me. I'm not being flirty, you know, but this is. This is the kicker is that we may have motives that are completely, you know, non romantic. We're not looking for anything. We literally are just wondering what's going on in their life, but we don't know what that person's motives are, and we don't know what's going on in their life. Like, we don't know if maybe they just went through a divorce and they're really in a fragile state right now just looking for someone from their past that brought comfort back then and is maybe looking for comfort now. And let me just be real clear here. God's not calling you to be their comfort. Make no bones about it. Like, he is not calling you to be their shoulder to cry on as someone of the opposite sex who's married. Okay. And so this, you know, just to. To get a little bit more perspective in this story that a lot of you, I think, can relate to, that's kind of was what the husband was telling the wife is like, well, I'm just trying to be there for these people. And she was like, am I wrong for feeling like this could maybe open the door to the enemy? Tempting, you know, him to kind of fall down a rabbit hole he never was intending to go down? And I was like, you know, I wrote her back and I said, absolutely not. You have every right to be on guard. And, you know, just remind your husband if this. And maybe, you know, listeners and those watching can relate. Remind your spouse if this is kind of the scenario they're in. Remind them that you're not, you know, addressing this with them because you don't trust them. You're addressing this because you love them. And, and because you don't want something as simple as a DM to take your marriage in the wrong direction or a Facebook message to take your marriage in the wrong direction. Because none of us are kind of, you know, any of us. Let me, let me rephrase it. Any of us could, could have this happen to us. Like any of us could fall into an inappropriate relationship if there's not guardrails and boundaries in place. And so it's not about a lack of trust. It's about wanting to keep on trusting each other.

Yes, exactly. And. And holding each other accountable. To see blind spots. Because sometimes this is just a blind spot where, you know, you're being friendly with somebody and you don't see anything at all in it beyond just that, being friendly. I'm just trying to be a friend. You know, this person reached out to me. I wasn't looking for this, but this is an opportunity to, you know, maybe we could even call it ministry. I'm doing ministry for this person. I'm being an encouragement. I'm saying I'm going to pray for them and all those things, but in those one on one correspondences, it can just so easily get to a place where lines are blurred. And I think a good policy to have and something that Ashley and I have tried to implement is whenever we're DMing someone of the opposite sex or texting someone of the opposite sex, then, I mean, with very few exceptions, I mean, I think pretty much every time we say, let's make sure that we're either doing it in a group text or at the very least copying each other on that to keep each other in the loop and one another in the conversation. And if you'll just do that one simple thing, it's going to remove a whole lot of area where the secrecy could take take root and where, you know, lines could be blurred or where Maybe impure motives, you know, not only just on our own part, but on that other person's part can be stopped before they get put into action. And. And so you might think, well, that's silly. I shouldn't have to copy my spouse on texts or copy my spouse on direct messages or emails or whatever else. But we have found it helps keep us in the loop of what's going on in each other's lives. It helps bring one another into. If our goal is really to help this person who's writing us, it brings in another perspective and another voice to help that person. And even most importantly, it protects your marriage. And because there's no room for that secrecy to begin.

Absolutely. And some of you listening and watching might be saying, well, what if that other person's not okay with that? And I would say, well, then you're already out of bounds, because since when did another person have license to control what's going on in your marriage relationship and the decisions you make there? Cause they don't. And so if they have a problem with it, then their MO they may honestly be innocent in their motives because they're like, well, I just don't want my information to be going to this other person that I don't know, because I don't know this person's spouse. But if that's the case, I would say you have to explain to that old friend, I just want to have a really honest marriage. And my spouse may not even comment on this, but I just want them to know what's going on so there's no misunderstanding. And that may be weird, but we're not like everybody else. We don't want to be like the world because if we followed everything the world follows, then we wouldn't have a good marriage. And so we're trying to do things differently.

And.

And if that friend from the past doesn't respect that, then then so be it. I mean, it's just. It is what it is. And. And I think that your marriage is. Is more important than that friend, that. That relationship with that friend from the past. It doesn't mean you can't still pray for them. It doesn't mean you can't, you know, care about them. Obviously, I'm not saying just push people aside, but we have to be so careful with this online back and forth because it very easily can fall into an emotional affair.

And.

And so we just need to be beyond reproach and do things differently. I want to shift the conversation to kind of the darker side of kind of where a lot of these online secrets and toxic behaviors happen. And that is kind of this crazy. You know, I would call it like the wild west of the Internet, because I think they're coming up with new things every day. And that is when it comes to like, pornography and things that kind of are, are maybe not technically porn because there's not nudity, but there is a connection that's romantic. And I know that there's things these days where on things like OnlyFans, which is a website that is very much known for live action pornography that's based on fetishes and such. And we've referenced this before in past episodes, especially on porn. So if you want more information on what exactly we're talking about, you can go back and listen to those episodes. But basically it's also become a place where people who, you know, kind of want. Want something a little racy outside of their marriage will go and have these like, romantic relationships that oftentimes turn into sexual anyway. But they, but they tell themselves, well, it's just, it's nothing. I just, you know, I'm just spicing things up. And you guys, that, that is just not what God called us to in our marriage. And it opens the door like what you'll find. And I've talked to people who walk through this. It opens the door just so many other things that that person just never saw coming their way and leading them down, you know, these trails to infidelity that they just never saw coming. And so just completely steer clear of that. And pornography, any kind. You guys, I mean, you don't want to mess with emotional affairs, you don't want to mess with physical affairs and anything that is resembling that. And so just don't, don't go to those websites, don't even toy with the idea because I'm telling you, the enemy loves to mess with, mess with us in that way.

And something that seems even harmless to some people, that's actually really, really toxic. And we've gotten specific messages about. This is just, you know, social media behavior and, and specifically men following female fitness accounts.

And you think especially on Instagram, on.

Instagram, where, you know, these ladies are posing their fitness photos when really it's, it's just these bikini shots of fit women. And it's essentially soft porn to the guy. He's not following it because he wants fitness tips. He's following it because he wants some eye candy. And guys, that's really, really hurtful. And you might think, oh, that's harmless. Nobody's naked they're not having sex in the pictures. It's not porn. It's just me just appreciating these other people. But when you're following that, you're putting those images in your head. A lot of times these men are commenting and trying to engage these women in conversation in a flirtatious way. And it's so harmful to the wives. And when wives see that this is going on, they've written us and said, this is so hurtful. My husband doesn't understand how hurtful this is. But, guys, listen, man to man, let me tell you, it is hurtful. It is out of bounds, it is wrong. And you're sending the message to your wife that I'm comparing you to, to these airbrushed images through filters I'm seeing on Instagram. And you're not measuring up. And so I'm following these other women because they're my standard for beauty and not you. And everything you're doing in this is hurting your wife, it's hurting your marriage, it's hurting your intimacy. And so you gotta be so careful and intentional to make sure your wife knows she's your standard for beauty, that you have eyes only for her. And it doesn't mean you never notice another person as attractive. That not what we're saying. But when you're out intentionally looking for images to put into your mind just to fantasize about, that is so wrong. Whether it's through pornography or through a person that you know or an image on social media. And so you got to protect your eyes. You've got to protect your heart and your mind, and you just. You have to be careful.

Absolutely. And I would say this isn't just a male issue. I don't think it's just doing things.

Oh, sure, definitely.

I know a lot of ladies that, that, you know, do the exact same thing. They. They find these fitness guys and they're like, oh, but he has good tips. And just so happens that he's shirtless most of the time. You know, it's. It's like. And he's doing things that clearly, you know, he's oiled up when he's doing his lifting his dumbbells or whatever. And, you know, I mean, guys. And they know those people, you know, they're running their business, they know what catches eyes. And I'm not vilifying them, but, you know, odds are maybe they're single or something, but it's not.

We just know you were into being oiled up. I'm going to get some oil I will look different if you're oiling up.

If you're oiling up.

But if you want me greasy torsoed, I can make this happen. We can.

I'm not saying that's my thing. I'm just saying when someone oils up, it's to catch the light and to bring more focus to their muscles and stuff. Same with the women, like, if they're doing that anyway. I don't know a whole lot about this world.

You seem like you know a lot. I've like, really interested.

But you know what I'm saying? I mean, it's the same thing. I think that a lot of times, you know, we know that guys tend to be more visual, but women are visual creatures too. And so we have to watch kind of where our eyes go. And I think just getting down to the very practical, a practical way of managing our online habits well is really asking ourselves, why am I following this person? Or why am I dming this person? Why am I in this, you know, on this Facebook group page or something? Like, what is my motivation for doing this? Is it to like, grow as a human being? Is it to connect with a specific person of the opposite sex? You know? And number two, what I would ask yourself is, would I want my spouse doing the same thing?

Yeah, the golden rule.

Totally okay with this. If my spouse is doing the same thing.

That's a good standard, guys. That's a real good standard. If you ask yourselves those questions, it's going to help prevent a lot of heartache. And so talk to your spouse about this. I think all this begins with healthy communication to just say, listen, like, what does it look like for us to have a naked marriage? Like, what is, what are those areas in each of our lives where we might be tempted to keep secrets? Maybe it's in finances and maybe it's online purchases we don't want the other to know, which is a whole big separate issue that maybe is the very issue that you guys need to talk about. Maybe it's in our correspondences with, with friends or the opposite sex. Maybe it's in what we're searching, what we're looking at. But pull out those phones and say, these phones could be a great tool to help keep us connected to each other and to loved ones. Or these could be a great distraction in our marriage that could, that could cause a lot of harm. And what do we need to do to make sure we're safeguarding each other, protecting each other. And part of the things that we've done, we put filtering software on our phones and devices just to protect each other. And now that we have four kids, we do the same with them. It helps block pornography, but it also has accountability. If there are certain keywords that are being searched, that's going to pop up. And it keeps us all in a level of accountability. I'm thankful for that accountability. As someone who years ago had a problem with pornography years before smartphones even existed, now it's everywhere. It's so easy to access that I want to make sure that I'm protecting my own mind and heart from falling back down into that same dark pit. And so I'm thankful for the accountability and for the software. But I think even if you've never had a past issue with pornography, all of us can benefit from just that kind of transparency and that kind of accountability. And. And you might think, well, I'm not a child. I'm not going to put something on my phone. But I would ask you, just why not? Like, why do you feel like you need to hide things from your spouse? Why do you feel like, I mean, if you are not giving your spouse full access to every part of your mind, heart, phone, and everything else, then really you're not truly married. Because marriage means sharing everything. It's valuing transparency and trust way ahead of personal privacy. And you have to have that mindset. Our world says, don't think that way. You got to keep secrets. You got to protect your own interests. That's not marriage, guys. That's not marriage. And so you got to get it out in the open. And once you do, you're going to realize that that's where intimacy really lives. And if you don't have that kind of transparency now, you're missing out. We tell you all this stuff because we don't want you to miss out on anything God has for your marriage. And, and secrecy of any kind is gonna cause you to miss out.

It will. And I think, you know, we've talked about kind of these, these bigger issue type things, but I think something when it comes to online behavior, that can be really toxic. And that is something I don't think we, as a. As a culture that's online all the time, that we often we forget to pay attention to this. But I think one thing that almost all of us can relate to is getting caught in the comparison trap when it comes to our online behavior, where we spend so much time online just looking at everybody's highlight reels and then thinking about how we don't match up. And I think that that can really cause a lot of discontent in a marriage. We've seen this happen. And whether you're comparing somebody else's spouse, who you don't really know in how they look to your spouse or what they do for their spouse and what your spouse isn't doing for you, how the house looks like, well, how do they afford that? I guess their spouse is doing more or whatever. And I think that we've really got to watch getting caught up in that and just even with that, to take it even further. And I'm talking to myself here. We really need to watch how much we are online, period. Like our phones and we do a lot of work on our phones. We were just talking about this the other day. So we're on our phones a lot. And we even tell our children, we're like, listen, we're not just scrolling through Instagram, like we're actually working, like this is part of our job. But there's a lot of times where I have to remind myself to put the phone down, to not be trying to check something while talking to Dave or talking to the kids. And because just that alone, just being online, it can really take away from giving your spouse your best attention. And so I think that there's a lot of new kind of apps and different technologies that are coming out to help people achieve more balance in their life. And I saw something recently and I know a little while back we interviewed the lions, Gabe and Rebecca Lyons. So if you want to go follow them on Instagram, I think they are kind of helping people know about this new and a device. And I don't even know if you know about this, sweetie, but I saw it and I was like, that's so brilliant. But it's a new device to help families. It's like a box that charges your phone, but it also locks and it puts these different basically time slots on when you all put your phone in there. And then it gives you reward, like little rewards to excite you on. I didn't look at my phone for five hours yesterday. And then it also kind of. It shows in a chart how much you're spending online. Because I think that how much time you're spending online, I think so many of us don't even realize, like, I don't even think we realize.

No, it's so easy to lose track. And these phones are just constantly connected to us. But if we're constantly connected to our phone, it means we're constantly disconnected from the people in our lives in a face to face way. And I'M talking to myself here because like Ashley said, we do a lot of work with phones and on computers, and it's easy for us to justify that time, not only for just diversion and entertainment, but for real work. And we've got to be so intentional about. About boundaries with that. And I know that's kind of a separate issue than the secrets thing, but it's an important thing to bring up. So have those conversations as well. Like, are the habits that we're doing with technology healthy or are they getting unhealthy?

That's right, guys.

Hey, thank you so much for listening to this episode. We appreciate you. A few quick things before we sign off. If you're not connected to us on Instagram, go over to find us avandashleywillis. You can send us questions there. And we so appreciate that we're not doing questions at the end of our episodes right now because we have a completely new separate midweek episode called Hump Day Q and A. So every Wednesday you can tune in just for the question portion and keep sending those questions in, both on Instagram and also@nakedmarriagepodcast.com we would love to answer one of your questions on air. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. We hope to see you at one of our upcoming live events. You can get the full schedule@xomarriage.com thank you for this. We love you guys.

That's right. We'll see you next time. Bye.

Sa.