The Key to Great Communication with Nirup and Hannah Alphonse | Dave and Ashley Willis

Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And today you guys, I'm so excited about the guests you're getting ready to hear from. They are our dear friends and Dave is going to tell you a lot more about them.

Yeah, we're super excited about them. Before I do though, I want to remind you that we're in a series right now in the first couple weeks of 2023. If you're listening in real time, Happy New Year. Thank you for joining us in the two week marriage challeng where together we're challenging each other to listen every day for two weeks and we've got some great interviews lined up. You're gonna hear from all sorts of different folks and every one of these conversations is designed to help enrich and strengthen your marriage. So this is your best year of marriage yet. And today's guests, Narup and Hannah Alphonse are dear friends of ours. They're the founding pastors of Lifegate Church in Denver, Colorado. Narup is part of our speaking team at XO conferences. And if you've never been to one of our conferences, you're missing out.

You need to come.

They're so fun. Naroop does a great job hosting and speaking there and Narup also has a new communication course on xonow.com and so stick around to the end of this interview. The first part of the interview, we're just going to like talk and laugh and hang out and sort of catch up. The second half though, we're asking Narup and Hannah to share some very specific communication nuggets of wisdom and what they have to say I think could make a huge difference in your marriage. It's very applicable. So definitely stick around to hear the whole conversation. You'll be glad you did. Let's dive into today's episod. Well, like we said in the intro, we are super excited about today. I know I say that every time but I really extra mean at this time because we have got our dear friends Narup and Hannah. They are, they're like family. I mean they're, they're friends, they're part of the XO family. They pastor like you said in the intro in Denver. But they're just amazing people and really we just wanted an excuse to hang out with them and we're recording at this time. But they've got a ton of marriage wisdom. They got four precious little boys like we do. So they're Part of club Quattro. Also they've got. They've got a 10 testicle home as well.

I knew you were going to say testicles.

And they are, they are in the thick of living life. But they're doing it, they're doing it with a lot of wisdom and grace and they're so fun. And so I'm going to shut up now and just say welcome Narup and Hannah.

Welcome. Oh, thanks for having us.

Thank you.

Hanging out at your. At two different places. Your place looks a lot cooler than our. Where we're currently living.

No, yours.

Like that.

I love your art. Like those of you who are not listening, you got to watch. They have some beautiful art behind them. It's very pretty and it's very fitting for Denver with the mountain theme and all that. So I love it.

Yeah, sadly, it's not even ours. I just stole someone else's office. Well, I borrowed your office.

I like it.

So they have great art. Yes, they do.

They do.

Well, we always, whenever we interview any, any couple, we love to start out with how you all met. And I know you all told us the story, but I'd love for listeners to hear that. So could you gu share that with us?

Yeah, I'll let Hannah tell this version because she, she has a lot more emotional attachment to it than I do because of the pain of the moment experience.

So basically when I was in high school, my parents helped start a church in a suburb way north of Chicago. And when I was in college, he came on as an intern on the worship team. And I came home from school Christmas break, Christmas break, and that Sunday I came to church as, you know, any typical college kid in the Midwest would just sweatshirt and jeans and like, not wearing any makeup or anything. Just kind of showed up at church as is. And we met. And then later that night we had a.

It was a party. It was a party for someone on staff.

It was a party for someone. Yeah. And so I had gotten showered, dressed in my hair and makeup, all the things. And he had asked someone to introduce us because he didn't remember who I was from that morning.

Yeah. And then our friend Kelly was like, that's Hannah. You met her this morning. I was like, no, definitely not the same person.

Not the same person.

No, definitely the same person. But I knew all of Hannah's family, all her sisters, her brother, her parents, because they were very involved in the church. But I never knew her. And her dad would always say, you gotta meet my daughter sometime. And I was like, what kind of A dad keeps telling me to meet his daughter. This girl cannot be. This just cannot be. You know, this cannot be a good thing. And I didn't know they were related until I went to go pick her up. And then her sister answered the door. I was like, what are you doing here? She's like, I live here. Like, since when?

How long has this happened?

So it was fun. Then we met, and then we just became really good friends. I. This is another story. I had a suspended driver's license, which happened frequently, by the way. And I was going home to see my parents, so I had no reason. One, I had no reason to use my car while I was gone. Two, I had no legal ability to use it anyways, and she didn't have a car. And I needed someone to drive me to the airport. And I said, hey, I don't have a license, and you do. I have a car and you don't. You should just take my car while I'm gone. Yeah, she was. She. We started Uber before it was a thing, and then she dropped me off the airport. Then it was. It was kind of standard, like, oh, I'll just. I'll text you when I land or I'll call you when I land, which. I don't know why I said that, because I don't. I don't call anybody when I land. And I called her and I landed. That turned into hours of conversations, and then it just kept going. And then we somehow got married. Still in that Uber ride. We got married. Yeah.

That's amazing.

A little bit later, but, you know.

Yes, God works through a suspended license.

That's right.

Yeah. See, God, that's what the devil meant for evil. God used for good.

There you go.

Or stupid decision.

I love it. You know, that's a whole different podcast. These are the things you should not do if you want to keep your driver's license.

So. So fast and furious Narup gets suspended. But then a fast and furious love began.

Oh, wow.

So, yeah, that's it. I'm seeing how it's all. And so. So fast forward a little bit to you start parenthood. All right, so, you know, you've got four little boys again, and that's a lot. That's a lot. And what was. What was life like as you started your family and kind of fast forward to now? Like, what's it look like now?

Yeah. So parenting for us was. I basically gave Hannah an ultimatum. I said, you either need to get a job or have a baby. You. I don't care which one it is. Just pick one. And then she chose.

Yeah, it seemed like the easier option at the time.

So it's just sort of that. And I don't know. I think we are so. Our oldest is 12 today. And as of the day of this recording, and I can't. Whenever people tell us, you know, we're not ready for kids, or we don't think we're ready, I'm like, listen, nobody's ready. No one's ever, ever, ever ready for any of this. No one teaches it. You could read, and you should. You should read books and get mentors, but every child has his own personality. And the more you have, the more you have. And you're like, oh, my gosh. This one's like. This one's like Hannah. This one's like me. And so, you know, and those are fun.

This one, we don't know where he came from.

Like, I don't know who this one is. This is. This is very strange. So parenting for us has been a journey of really needing to. Whenever. You know, it's funny, after church, after sermons, I'll always say, does anyone need prayer? I'm like, if you're a parent, you have to have your hand up. You have to have your hands. Like, none of us. None of us know what we're doing. So I think that's been an interesting journey. I think parenting in 2022, just learning that it's not. When we were all kids, the world is polarizingly different. Different. It's.

Yeah, it's so different.

And. And not even, you know, not even the sort of idea of social media and all that kind of stuff. Just the way school works. Yes, Matt, I. I had to get a math tutor to help my. To tutor my son and how to do sixth grade math. Like, what is this? This is not long division anymore. Or, you know, back in the day, when we grew up, if you were in this neighborhood, in this city, that's where you went to school. But now there's options to do all kinds of school. And so all that's changing. And so I think constantly learning how to trust in the Lord, how to have way more, that's probably the hardest thing is we've had to learn how to not let every conversation be about our kids, but yet we have to still have conversations about our kids. And so we're trying to figure, hey.

We'Re not talking about them.

You know, we cannot talk about them. And it's not even problems. Sometimes they're just really funny. Like, they say funny stuff. They're just funny people. Or they say cute stuff like, okay, we're not talking about them. We're not. They're gonna leave this place one day, and we have to know who we are outside of them. So that's us. But then sometimes one of us, at least once a week, will text the other one like, I don't know what to do with this one. I'm at my wits end. I don't know what to do. Yeah, I think military school is an option.

The ultra frustrated. I'm gonna lose my mind to talk the other one off the ledge.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The good news is I don't know if you guys have had this. We've never both been frustrated at the same time. Usually one of us is crazy and one of us is sane.

Yeah.

It's never both.

Whoever gets crazy first, the other one sees how crazy it is before they can get crazy. And like, okay, we're gonna.

You're like, you're. You're getting crazy. But parenting's gonna journey. It's been really fun, I think, for probably difference, you know, for Hannah. Grew up a lot of sisters. I grew up with one, and these are four boys, which is really different. Their bathroom is like a truck stop. It's just, you know, it's like, what is this? This is just like. And I'm like, come in here. Come in here. Like, I shouldn't have to teach you how to pee. I shouldn't have to do this. You're seven years old. This is not. And that's, you know, it's sort of every time that happens. I think this is what Jesus must do with us in discipleship. Like, I shouldn't have to teach you this, but I'm going to. I'm gonna do this one more time.

Because I love you, but this is.

Getting really love you. Yeah. So it's fun.

So we have different.

Different temperaments. Hannah's the all creative. Goes all out for everything. Halloween, all out. What do we do for Halloween this year? And she makes all their outfits. And this year we bought you.

I used to, but I'm tired now.

Yeah. So she goes all out. She goes all out for Christmas, all out for Halloween, all out for Thanksgiving. And I, you know, my parents dressed us up as obscure Bible characters, and it was, here's a bed sheet.

That's so great.

Here's a bed sheet. You're a hezek. You know, go for it. This year you're. This year, you're mephibosheth. You know, good luck.

You got A limp?

Oh, my goodness.

Yeah.

I was baby Jesus when I was a newborn.

So they love handling it. She's so creative. I come home and they're doing all kinds of creative stuff, and I'm the one that's throwing stuff at them. I make them run down the hallway and I throw like tennis balls on as hard as I can. Stuff like that.

We have such a similar home. It's like the boy life or something. Because I totally get that. And do you know, I remember when I was pregnant, I guess with the fourth, you know, we knew that that's most likely our last child. And I had people, you know, basically, I think they. They were well meaning. Basically. Like, I'm so sorry that there. You're never going to have the love that you could have had if had you had a girl or you're never going to be able to decorate and do things like this. And what I want to say is, like. And I'm sure Hannah can relate. Boys enjoy all that stuff too. And boys can be extremely affectionate. Like, I mean, aren't your boys. Like, I mean, not. Maybe not all of them, but they can be so loving. Like, I don't know why there's that. That kind of stereotype, but. And they love the holiday decorations. Like, they cannot wait until we start decorating for holidays. Like, they're so excited about all that stuff. And I think there's this like, stereotype that only girl homes do that or something. And I think I probably had even thought that because Hannah, I grew up with a sister and really it was kind of like the girls rolled the rooster. And I mean, it was everything girl all the time. And Dave grew up in a boy household. And so, you know, it is. It's an adjustment, but no, it's so fun having the boys. It is a full contact sport. I would say they do like a lot of physical activity.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

A lot of it is. A lot of it's. Hannah will text me a picture. Like, you think stitches on this one? Like, yeah, A baseball bat to the face is typically. But you know, you bring up an interesting point because. Because we. To our third. We don't know where this child came from. He's the X factor. And he's a really strange kid because he's very aggressive. Aggressive in your face, loud. But then he loves stuffed animals and decorating cookies. And so what we've realized is boys need an outlet for their aggression, but they also need an outlet for their tenderness. They need both. And trying to learn how to do Both of those.

That's so true.

But I mean, I only know boys. And you know, you guys taught Dave's. Dave already said testicles, so I guess anything's on the table now. But I remember, I remember Chris Rock said one year or I was like a stand up. I was watching a Chris Rock and he said, you know, if you have a girl, you have to worry about a thousand penises. You have a boy, you only have to worry about one.

I've seen that bit.

I've seen that there's only four penises.

I have to worry about.

Worry about it all.

Oh, that's such, that's such a great line.

Oh my goodness.

Coming back to like, you guys talking about talk, not talking about the kids.

I love that you brought that up.

And I want to, I want to tee you up to talk about communication. Like what, how do you guys communicate? What do you talk about when you're not talking about the kids? Because Narup actually has a new course on EXO now, which is our ministry streaming service, all about communication.

Excellent.

Yeah, great resource. Check that out. Exo now dot com. But Hannah and Rupe, I'd love for you guys to just kind of give us some tips on how you communicate, what you see in the couples that you counsel in your church that maybe are struggling with communication, how you're, you're counseling them and just how we can all get a little better at it because you two do it right and we want to learn from you.

Well, I think we're still, we're learning, you know, and I, I think for us, we would, we would never tell anybody. We've got it figured out. I think we're learning. And then when you add another human into your life, it's just way more communication pathways. I think what we had to learn early on because our first three years were very contentious. Very, very contentious. Because Hannah is passive aggressive, will silent treatment, and I have no idea what's going on. And I'm just aggressive. It's just if I, I have no problem confronting anyone, any place, anytime. If I think something, I will tell you right away. I have not thought about it, not process it, not prayed about it. And Hannah's the opposite. As she's processing, she'll just be passive aggressive the whole time. And so that was very contentious for us because we had no idea why we're always angry at each other. And we just had to learn. We think at different speeds and we process at different speeds. And we had to first before you can, we had to learn before we can communicate something, we had to understand each other's speed, at which something is going on in our brain and how we process that. Where Hannah needs to talk everything to death. And I'm like, I thought about it for 30 seconds. I thought we moved on. Like, why are we still talking about.

This internal processor but also an external processor? When I'm ready to talk, I need to talk it all out loud. But in the moment, I'm just soaking it all in, trying to just sort my thoughts.

Yeah. So I think that's the first thing, is to realize there's, you know, four ways of communication. You can be the aggressive communicator, the passive communicator, the passive aggressive. And what we had to learn was how to be assertive. And you can be. And you can be truthful and kind and empathetic, but to be assertive. And so we had to learn that. I think we're still learning that. We're still learning how to assert well. So that's the first thing. And then we had to learn that I can talk about anything, any place, any topic, anytime, except for feelings. That's the one thing. I'm like, why are we talking about feelings? I don't understand why we're talking about this. And Hannah's the sort of opposite. She can talk about feelings any place, anytime, but can't talk about anything else. Logistics, money, parenting, shopping, you name it. So we had to learn that we can't just talk about it whenever we want. We actually have to, like everything in life. If you don't schedule, it's not gonna happen. So schedule it and stick to the schedule. And again, that's a challenge. It's easy when you have one kid, right? And you have two. Okay, we can make this work. And then you have three. Like, we can make it work. Then you have four, and you want to go to bed by five. Want to go to bed?

Yeah. Your brain doesn't work anymore, so.

Yeah, my brain is done. You know, Like, I am.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

So I would say we've had to learn. So, for example, our budget meeting. We have to talk about money. Because early on, we grew up in two different households, where, for me, I grew up in an Indian family. I don't even know what color my dad's wallet is. I've never seen it. I've heard rumors. My brother and I and sister have heard rumors that it exists. We have never seen it. I've just never seen it. And my parents don't talk about money. Like, I've never. Other than my parents teaching us how to tithe and be generous, I had no idea what our mortgage is, what my parents paid for groceries. If we ever needed to do anything, it was sports, music. You name it, it was. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. We have it. So we grew up in a small family with more money. Hannah grew up in a larger family with less money. And so our approach to money was very different. My approach to money is when it comes in, other than being generous, it stays in. I mean, it stays in. Money does not go out. Money stays in. For me, it's a matter of security, feeling safe that we have money. And for Hannah, money comes in and it goes right out. It goes out before it comes in. It's like.

It goes out before it comes.

Yes, it goes out. And so I would. I remember one time I called her and I said, this is back. Remember back in the day where they actually sent you bank statements like, you got sheets.

Still dating?

No, this is. We were. We were married this time. No, we were married. So I get like, you know, the bank sends you the 14 sheets of paper. I'm going through this, and I'm. And I'm highlighting things I don't understand. And it's. And it's coffee, Coffee, Starbucks, you know, Target, Target, Target. Is it me? Did you go to Starbucks multiple times a day, every day for the past 30 days, or did your card get stolen? And we don't know about this? And I'll never forget, her response was, no, it was definitely me. And, yes, I have a problem. So that's the thing about Hannah. She's never. I'm never going to have to worry about Hannah taking our card or money and going and buying crazy, extravagant stuff. It's always just little, little treats that she just loves, you know? And so we had to sit and say, hey, this. We. This is not Hannah. This is not how money works. And we had to go through that. And so we have a budget meeting once a month. But here's the thing. I can talk about it whenever. Whenever we want. I can talk about money, but she can't. So in that conversation, the person who has. What we've learned is the person who has the harder time with the topic gets to choose the time and the location.

Yes.

Oh, that's good. Yeah.

And I love that.

So she chooses the time. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because she needs, you would say, way longer to prepare for that conversation.

Right?

Yeah. Just to make sure I can actually have a conversation. Like, I know going into it. What we're actually talking about and where things.

Right.

Or questions like, so what is this Bill?

Yes.

And so she. So she chooses time prepared to answer questions.

Yeah.

And then we also realize that we cannot talk about money unless it's at a public location. We have to be in the public. We have to be in public. So there's witnesses. I need to be witnesses.

So there's.

Because it can get heated. But you're like, okay, if I'm in a coffee shop, I'm gonna. I'm gonna refrain a little bit.

I'm gonna hold back a little. Yeah, yeah.

Where do we go?

I totally get that.

Talk about not having Starbucks.

Yeah. So we go and have meetings. So that's.

That's it.

So we have to have conversations. So you take every topic of conversation and you just schedule those conversations.

Yes.

And not. And you just can't talk about. You know, I always tell people, imagine if your boss called you into a meeting and said, I have nine things to talk to you about. The sales report, the marketing report, how you're doing your pto. Like, nobody. No one. No one can handle that level of information. Right. And we do that in our marriages. We do that with parenting. We do that with, hey, kid, I have to talk to you about your homework, your attitude, your outfit, your hygiene. Like, no one can handle that amount of intake of information. And so really deciding, what do we need to talk about, when do we need to talk about it? And then what we found is, I really need to talk to Hannah about this. And three days later, I'm like, yeah, that really wasn't a big deal. Like, yeah, like, it's. And it's not. And it's not bearing it. It's legitimately, no, it's just not a big deal.

Like, this isn't as much of an issue as I thought at the moment. You know, sometimes it's taking that pause and even praying about it, just sitting on it a little bit, I think. Because if we just constantly were reacting to every little thing, like you said, we get ourselves in trouble, and we end up saying things we don't really mean and not having a healthy conversation about it. So I like the whole scheduling thing. I think that's very important.

I think that's one thing we struggle with sometimes when we. When we are in the heat of a moment. Argument or something is not. Is just letting the topic be the topic and not letting it snowball into other things that can be talked about at different times. Because then it's like every. Every conversation or argument or Fight ends up turning into something that was not what the initial thing was about. We're like, yeah, let's just solve this conflict and then at another time we can revisit all those other things that.

You just brought up. Yeah. Like, how did we just go from you got a speeding ticket to I hate your mother? Like, how did we get. That was, that was a trajectory. Oh, my goodness, how did we get there?

You know, it all, it all gets connected. I remember Jeff Foxworthy talking about that, doing a stand up bit, saying, in marriage, any argument, you can turn it to something else. And he goes, whenever I'm losing an argument with my wife, I just say, well, I guess we'll just live like your fat alcoholic mother. Then it's like, it's just, it has nothing to do with what they were talking about. But no, I think there's so much wisdom what you guys are saying of just, you know, helping each other be heard, be at your best, scheduling, staying focused. And guys, there's more communication gold in that, that EXO now course I mentioned. Guys, we're running out of time. I want to honor your time, but before we let you go, in just a minute, but I want to close with each of you sharing one nugget of marriage advice. It can just be, you know, something you're learning now, a piece of marriage advice you'd give to, you know, a newlywed couple. Whatever, whatever you want it to be. One nugget of marriage advice. While you're thinking about that, I want to tell our listeners that the XO marriage conference season is coming up.

Yes.

And if you want to hang out with all of us here, plan to come to one of the events. We're going to be in Grapevine, Texas, which is in the Dallas Fort Worth area, the weekend before Valentine's Day. Then the very next weekend, we'll be in Houston. And then we've got some other events coming up, including a one night date night event that Narup is going to be part of at our home church in Augusta, Georgia, Stevens Creek Church. It's our first time hosting an XO event. We're so excited about that. You can go to xomarriage.com and get the full schedule. Just click on conferences and we would love to see at one of those. Just a great way to make an investment in your marriage. And they're super fun. And it's not just us in this conversation who are part of it. It's a great lineup at every event and you really don't want to miss It. I'm telling you, these things are fun. So, Narup. Hannah.

Yes.

Give us a nugget of marriage advice.

Yeah. What would you say?

I would say for the wives specifically.

You are your husband's biggest advocate and warrior. So as much as he can frustrate you, as much as you see all his flaws, you know him better than anyone else in this world on the side of heaven knows him. And to go to bat for him, instead of focusing on the flaws and how they frustrate you, go to bat for him and take him to the throne every single day.

I love it.

Yes.

Wonderful.

That's great. A lot more. I expect a lot more at bats now. Yeah. I mean, I think there's spiritual advice to pray together, to orient your life around God's people and God's vision for your life. But I would say you probably married someone you thought was fun. I hope you married to whatever you think is fun. You know, and sometimes we look at couples, you're like, I don't know how they thought they were fun, but, like, you thought they were fun and you laughed a lot. Hopefully you laugh with the person that you were dating and. And that led you to get married. And so I would say your house should be filled with laughter. You know, learn to laugh with each other, learn to laugh at each other. You know, joke or. We joke around a lot with each other. And we. We. And that's something. I appreciate that. Hannah, I'm a very sarcastic person. Love to tease people, and she's never given me a hard time about that. And that's part of the way that I show who I love, is that if I don't make fun of you, I probably don't like you. So I like to make fun of people. And I can tell you that I've just noticed in couples that we. That we pour into when laughter leaves the home, when joy leaves the home, it's typically a fast, fast down, like, downward trajectory. Yes. And just learn to laugh a lot. Like, learn to do stuff that's fun. Again, like, what did you do when you were dating that was fun? Go do those things. Hopefully now you have more money than when you were dating, so you could afford more. But do things that are fun. Laugh a lot, joke around a lot. And I think for me, the key is I love coming back to a home that I know is just full of life and laughter. Because my. Because outside of the home, it's. Everything is serious and everything is hard. But in our home, we want it to be life and laughter and joy. And I think that's what Jesus talks about in John 15. If you as a couple are abiding in Christ, you're remaining in him and your word. And in prayer he says at the end of John 15 that the result of that is that his joy would be made complete in you. And I've just never met a joyful person that doesn't laugh. I've just never met that person. So we laugh a ton. We laugh and joke around, we make fun of our kids, we make fun of each other, we make fun of our parents. We do fun stuff like we go to, we go to restaurants and then you know, like at restaurants you have like the little digital order things now, you know, like yes, we go to Red Robin, AKA the Dirty Bird. That's our, that's one of our places. And we'll, and we'll do things like, okay, you have to order this dessert but in a French accent. You have to order this. And we just do things that are. And it's just the two of us, no one else is there and it's just fun. We just laugh the whole time.

It's just fun.

We laugh. So if you laugh, I feel like if you can laugh, you know, I love seeing those 70 year old couples that still laugh. You're like, man, that's the kind of house you want. You want to laugh. And you know, and Dave, the stories you have in your family, sometimes I'm like, man, I wish I had his life. I wish that was my upbringing that would have been. I would have so many stories, stories that would just be the best. Laugh a lot, you know?

Yes.

Well, every time I'm around you guys, I laugh a lot. Which is the mark of a great, great friendship. And, and you two are such a gift. I am so thankful for you both and can't wait to hang out in person. We're gonna get to be hanging out quite a bit in the coming months and all you listeners and viewers come hang out with us. We would love to see you at one of these events. And listen, if you are in the Denver area, check out Lifegate Church. Definitely go and see Narup and Hannah. They are, they're doing a world changing ministry there and you would want to be a part of it. Guys, any final words before we sign off?

Laugh a lot. Don't get, don't get your driver's license suspended.

I love it.

Teach your kids how to teach. That's it. Those are the final words. Parting words.

Hey, words to live by all you listeners, viewers thanks so much for listening. If this encouraged you, and I know it did, there were so many great nuggets here that you can apply to your marriage. Forward this on to somebody, send them a text, post it on social media. Help others discover what you've discovered. And together, we're helping build stronger marriages. You're up. And, Hannah, we love you guys, and we'll see all of you real soon.

Love you guys.

Bye.